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00:37:52 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
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00:38:23 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:38:42 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:39:21 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:39:39 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:40:01 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:40:11 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:40:31 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
00:41:14 <Henzell> mikee the Pyromancer (L27 OpWr) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3447: Invalid staff type: 13 (D:24)
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00:53:27 <Cheibriados> ch_force_autopickup failed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5774) by Sjourn
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01:26:21 <CIA-50> 03edlothiol * r6cd43c0f05b4 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix the robe of misfortune having a TODO tile.
01:32:07 <CIA-50> 03edlothiol 07stone_soup-0.10 * r05f95b71d1c3 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix the robe of misfortune having a TODO tile.
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03:19:00 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: stone_soup-0.10.3-tiles-macosx
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05:00:05 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2262-g6cd43c0
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06:58:51 <Gretell> Debian builds of 0.10 branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10.3-1-g05f95b7
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09:16:46 <ChrisOelmueller> is chunk autopickup broken after a certain amount of items is recognized by players?
09:17:04 <ChrisOelmueller> i get it reliably around xl10 or something in a regular game
09:17:34 <Grunt> I've thought that it was triggered by save and restore.
09:20:03 <elliptic> I'm not sure what triggers it but it definitely becomes broken
09:25:54 <ChrisOelmueller> save/load might also be an issue, yeah, i do that regularly
09:37:02 <|amethyst> Looking at Ortoslon's save from 5772... someonw, you.force_autopickup[OBJ_CORPSES] = { 0, -1, 0 <repeats 48 times> }
09:37:57 <|amethyst> and  you.force_autopickup[OBJ_FOOD] = {0 <repeats 21 times>, -1, 0 <repeats 28 times>}
09:38:02 <|amethyst> which is the relevant one
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09:47:54 <|amethyst> I believe I've tracked it down
09:48:08 <|amethyst> hm, maybe not
09:50:34 <|amethyst> yeah
09:52:03 <|amethyst> once you encounter a chunk where an AE prevents pickup, _is_option_autopickup() will set you.force_autopickup[OBJ_FOOD][FOOD_CHUNK] = -1
09:53:47 <|amethyst> can't just remove that code, though, because it's what is responsible for making sure the initial state of the menu reflects reality
09:54:35 <elliptic> I thought we were going to change things so that force_autopickup can only be set manually?
09:54:42 <elliptic> that would solve this, right?
09:55:06 <|amethyst> yes, but it needs the tri-state menu
09:55:36 <|amethyst> otherwise the menu will show "no pickup" for everything the first time you enter it
09:55:49 <elliptic> yeah
09:56:12 <|amethyst> the other question is, what to do about existing games
09:56:21 <|amethyst> since there's no way to turn off these exceptions
09:57:00 <|amethyst> (maybe the menu should show, in addition to the current categories, also any category that has a non-zero value somewhere?
09:57:03 <|amethyst> )
09:57:35 <elliptic> couldn't existing games just have their force_autopickups all reset?
09:58:18 <|amethyst> I guess that's probably a good idea when the automatic force_ap inference is gone
09:58:33 <|amethyst> since most of the values there will have been inherited from options, not manually set
09:58:47 <|amethyst> of course, that means players who did manually set something will have to redo it
10:07:00 <|amethyst> I added some info to the bug, and marked it as a child of the auto-pickup implementable
10:14:31 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2262-g6cd43c0 (33)
10:18:00 <ChrisOelmueller> the menu seems to overwrite any settings the rcfile provides for autopickup (eg it has pickup enabled for useless items by default), is that related?
10:18:32 <|amethyst> sort of
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10:19:02 <|amethyst> the menu will continue to override options, but Thann is adding a third "defer to options" state
10:19:21 <|amethyst> which will be the default for everything
10:19:47 <ChrisOelmueller> that sounds good
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13:49:32 <Cheibriados> rock worms in walls are not immune to headbutt retaliation (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5775) by sim
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15:14:56 <Henzell> Stormfox the Bringer of Life (L12 HOHe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1072 failed on turn 16778. (Lair:7)
15:15:49 <Cheibriados> Bad Player spawning in arena (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5776) by Pourush
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15:25:59 <Cheibriados> Vaults: the fire pits (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5777) by sgrunt
15:28:34 <dtsund> Received a report of using Slimify on tentacle segments causing a crash in Light.  I just tried it in SS trunk, and while it's not crashing, it is leading to some highly unusual behavior; perhaps tentacle segments should be exempt from slimification?
15:28:51 <monqy> it was funny on tentacles too
15:29:26 <MarvinPA> tentacle segments need to be exempt from a bunch of things that they're not exempt from really
15:29:32 <MarvinPA> they mess things up when you teleport them too
15:29:35 <monqy> does dispersal still crash them
15:29:36 <monqy> eheheheheh
15:29:41 <MarvinPA> it doesn't crash i don't think
15:29:45 <MarvinPA> just gives error message spam
15:35:09 <ChrisOelmueller> hm i had a ring of hunger not auto-identifying after i got to a lower satiation level
15:35:43 <ChrisOelmueller> and in fact only suspected a bug at Near Starving to confirm it was indeed a ring of hunger
15:36:19 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller:  you were wearing only one unidentified ring?
15:36:27 <ChrisOelmueller> yes
15:36:39 <Grunt> Are you wearing any other non-fully-identified equipment?
15:37:12 <ChrisOelmueller> i had the other one not identified upon wearing, but i did before finding the ring-to-be-hunger
15:37:29 <ChrisOelmueller> also it was not cursed if that helps
15:37:34 <|amethyst> any not-fully-identified randarts?
15:38:11 <|amethyst> hm
15:38:33 <|amethyst> unided amulet?
15:39:24 <Zannick> amulets can have hunger?
15:39:37 <|amethyst> as an artefact property
15:39:38 <Zannick> or is the auto-id just based on being the only thing left to id?
15:40:00 <|amethyst> but the code doesn't seem to verify whether it is an artefact before counting it towards num_unknown
15:40:03 <Zannick> right, i figured you covered that by asking for randarts
15:40:15 <Zannick> ah, ok
15:40:58 <ChrisOelmueller> the amulet was not identified and no randart, so that might be it
15:41:04 <|amethyst> yeah, that would do it
15:41:12 <|amethyst> that should probably be fixed
15:48:52 <st_> Eronarn: I can't figure out how to get numpad to work right in putty to play hellmouth :(
15:49:06 <st_> I've tried switching all the options
15:56:15 <Eronarn> st_: it's expecting just number keys. i haven't messed around at all with getting it to work on other platforms than my own desktop
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16:09:12 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r3057eea130cc 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Fix amulet/ring auto-id interaction with ARTP_*.
16:09:14 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller:  thanks
16:09:29 <|amethyst> four lines of code, 12 lines of commit message :)
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16:14:21 <ChrisOelmueller> heh, cool :)
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16:22:31 <alefury> |amethyst: just in case this didnt come up yet, re your latest commit: there is no need to check artifact armors because they are automatically identified
16:22:44 <alefury> im not sure about artifact weapons, i havent played crawl in a while
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16:23:06 <alefury> i think some stuff ids, some stuff doest
16:23:10 <|amethyst> hm
16:23:27 <alefury> but im not sure
16:23:30 <|amethyst> yeah, I forgot about armour auto-iding
16:23:34 <|amethyst> not sure about weapons myself
16:28:30 <evilmike> Grunt: in your fire pit vaults, what does the entered_level triggerer do?
16:28:37 <Grunt> Oh.
16:28:41 <Grunt> Nothing, anymore.
16:28:45 <Grunt> I forgot to remove that. :|
16:28:54 <evilmike> alright, just making sure I didn't miss some weird obscure thing
16:29:30 <Grunt> The original implementation of it generated the monsters at level-enter time, as opposed to when the tile came into view.
16:29:48 <Grunt> This was causing a few problems, so I came up with a different approach. :)
16:33:52 <evilmike> another small suggestion, you can put the strings with the monster list inside [[ ]], this lets you use multiple lines without it being awkward
16:36:18 <evilmike> Grunt: for the hell vaults, flaming corpses might be thematic
16:36:33 <evilmike> these aren't actually dangerous monsters though... their main purpose seems to be to destroy scrolls
16:45:16 <Grunt> evilmike, that gives me an idea.
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16:47:22 <Grunt> Hm, is there a reliable way for a monster not to generate a corpse?
16:47:27 <evilmike> Grunt: also, when you generate the monsters, you need to add a check for if that square is occupied
16:47:49 <evilmike> otherwise you'll get an error if the player controlled-teleports onto that spot, and probably if a monster happens to be standing there
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16:50:32 <evilmike> Grunt: would need to add a new tag for that, I think. So you place "human never_corpse", or something like that
16:57:31 <Cheibriados> Monster info tag: "never_corpse" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5778) by sgrunt
16:57:53 <Grunt> ...now to justify why I need that :)
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17:01:32 <|amethyst> Grunt:  you do make commits in your local repository, right?
17:01:42 <Grunt> Usually.
17:01:45 <|amethyst> git format-patch
17:01:55 <|amethyst> that way I don't have to type up the commit message :)
17:01:58 <ghallberg> Jellies never drop corpses: Make everything a Jelly.
17:03:04 <evilmike> I think kiku_cage.des is the only vault that destroys a corpse when one is dropped by a monster
17:03:07 <|amethyst> I'll just copy-paste it from the mantis issue
17:03:18 <Grunt> ...if you wait a second, I'll give you a format-patch :p
17:03:26 <|amethyst> okay :)
17:03:47 <Grunt> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5494313/0001-New-monster_info-tag-never_corpse.patch
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17:04:30 <|amethyst> oh, you didn't write a commit message other than the title
17:04:35 <|amethyst> that's fine I guess :)
17:05:06 <Grunt> It's ten lines of code, largely obvious.  I could write more than that if you really wanted. >_>
17:05:25 <|amethyst> Nah, it's fine
17:05:42 <|amethyst> I was thinking about copy-pasting the description from the mantis issue, but I think I'll forgo even that
17:12:23 <CIA-50> 03Grunt * rb84c06f5a306 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc mapdef.cc mon-stuff.cc): New monster_info tag: never_corpse.
17:12:24 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r8d6d16bb3989 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt: Document never_corpse.
17:12:24 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * r35619ead0775 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/kiku_cage.des: Simplify tgw_kikubaaqudgha using the new never_corpse tag.
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17:25:04 <dtsund> (warning: large-ish images)
17:25:06 <dtsund> http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/Crawl_Light/neostairs1.png
17:25:09 <dtsund> http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/Crawl_Light/neostairs2.png
17:25:11 <dtsund> http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab252/dtsund/Crawl_Light/neostairs3.png
17:25:14 <dtsund> Aw, yeah.
17:26:45 <dtsund> (Brogue-style interlevel pursuit.)
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17:42:13 <alefury> |amethyst: can you also document the new tag on the dev wiki?
17:42:21 <|amethyst> already did
17:42:27 <alefury> :)
17:42:44 <|amethyst> There are a few things from a while back I added to syntax.txt but not to the wiki
17:42:58 <|amethyst> Because the relevant sections didn't quite match
17:43:15 <|amethyst> %git aaba1318
17:43:15 <Cheibriados> |amethyst * raaba13189766: Clarify the interactions of KPROP, KMASK, etc. (5 weeks ago, 1 file, 47+ 0-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/aaba13189766
17:43:31 <alefury> the wiki version tends to be a bit better i think, and it also has some formatting to make it more readable
17:44:10 <alefury> it has the advantage of being publicly editable, so someone (maybe HangedMan) overhauled it
17:44:46 <alefury> oh, it was mumra
17:45:06 <|amethyst> If you want to add that stuff from aaba1318 to the wiki, feel free... I don't use the wiki very much
17:45:17 <MarvinPA> dtsund: nice, maybe we can steal that for the long-proposed beogh overhaul
17:45:19 <evilmike> it's better for people who are just learning, I think. I find the txt files more convenient as an actual reference, though
17:45:43 <alefury> theyre pretty okay i guess
17:45:58 <MarvinPA> is it a hard mode feature for light?
17:46:05 <dtsund> No, ever-present
17:46:17 <Grunt> evilmike, another version of the fire pits is up.
17:46:19 <MarvinPA> ah, interesting
17:46:26 <dtsund> Funnily enough, it was food removal that wound up necessitating it, through a bit of a chain-reaction
17:46:55 <dtsund> Food removal meant removal of respawning, which meant mummystabbing was overpowered and boring
17:47:08 <dtsund> And everyone could do it
17:47:14 <evilmike> It would be nice if the vault documentation in docs/develop/levels was kept in sync with the wiki
17:47:25 <evilmike> this should really be up to whoever overhauled the documentation on the wiki
17:47:32 <dtsund> (I'm going to let you escape things outright with hatches.)
17:47:45 <Grunt> It took me a while to work out how to get that new trick to work as intended.
17:47:47 <alefury> definitely tell about how it works out. Removing 6+ awesome ways to escape monsters per level sounds like it might cause problems.
17:48:12 <evilmike> the way brogue works is you run up to the previous level and then jump down a pit
17:48:25 <evilmike> it's not too annoying in that game because there are a ton of pits, and the levels are small
17:49:01 <dtsund> Yeah, I'm going to add a few ways to escape.  Hatches will become single-use, and I think I might start everyone with one ?tele this is still too harsh early-game
17:49:09 <alefury> i think its generally much harder to escape from stuff in brogue
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17:49:18 <HangedMan> brogue also has escaping across deep water
17:49:20 <dtsund> *if this is still tooharsh
17:49:47 <HangedMan> the items floating away can be chased with vague plausibility if they don't wash up on shore but then again eels and krakens
17:49:54 <evilmike> I find escape pretty easy in brogue, myself
17:50:15 <evilmike> if you conserve your items properly, you can do a lot with potion throwing
17:50:30 <alefury> not really once the monster is in melee range, though
17:50:32 <HangedMan> staff of obstruction is so cool
17:50:34 <dtsund> Plus, obstruction
17:50:38 <alefury> or one square away
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17:50:48 <alefury> i never had obstruction :(
17:50:51 * Grunt hits HangedMan with a staff of bugginess!  Suddenly, the game crashes.
17:50:59 <dtsund> Obstruction is crazy.
17:51:03 <HangedMan> my progresssss
17:51:15 <dtsund> You can still use ranged attacks while obstructed.
17:51:16 <evilmike> if it's one square away, you might need to resort to emergency stuff like teleport
17:51:21 <evilmike> wands are really, really powerful
17:51:54 <dtsund> I once had a near-win where my modus operandi was to obstruct anything that got into melee range and pelt it with lightning.
17:54:13 <evilmike> Grunt: i like the flaming corpses rising from the burn victims
17:54:16 <Grunt> >:)
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18:03:31 <ChrisOelmueller> fannar desperately needs more hp by the way
18:03:32 <ChrisOelmueller> !lm * uniq=fannar s=name
18:03:33 <Sequell> 9 milestones for * (uniq=fannar): nubinia, Jeremie, Nomi, WalkerBoh, Mandor, pivotal, Sky, jakiro, KiloByte
18:03:38 <ChrisOelmueller> !killsby fannar
18:03:38 <Sequell> No games for * (ckiller=fannar)
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18:06:15 <ChrisOelmueller> !lm * noun=fannar x=avg(hp),avg(mhp)
18:06:15 <Sequell> 10 milestones for * (noun=fannar): avg(hp)=93.7; avg(mhp)=105.6
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18:07:54 <Cheibriados> Fannar (12e) | Spd: 10 | Int: high | HD: 10 | HP: 80 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 8 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 961 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), armour, ice beast, refrigeration, blink.

18:07:54 <HangedMan> %?? fannar
18:07:54 <evilmike> his hp is pretty low, but there are uniques with lower hp than that (at the same depth)
18:08:01 <evilmike> harold and josephine (both have the exact same range as fannar) have lower hp than him
18:08:08 <Cheibriados> Harold (09@) | Spd: 10 | Int: normal | HD: 9 | HP: 76 | AC/EV: 0/8 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1238 | Sp: b.fire (3d17), blink.

18:08:08 <|amethyst> %??harold
18:08:43 <evilmike> those two are usually pushovers, of course...
18:09:00 <evilmike> josephine can be a little dangerous but it's because of her zombie pack, not her
18:09:04 <|amethyst> wait, why does harold give more XP?
18:09:30 <|amethyst> oh, harold has an xp_mod of 20, fannar of 10
18:09:51 <|amethyst> probably that should not be the case
18:10:15 <alefury> yes
18:10:24 <alefury> fannar does seem more dangerous
18:11:45 <ChrisOelmueller> buffing harold is reasonable as well i suppose
18:11:54 <evilmike> erica (another caster unique at the same depth) has lower hp than fannar
18:11:57 <Grunt> Fannar is on roughly an even footing with Harold right now.
18:12:05 <evilmike> he actually seems to have the highest hp of the caster uniques at that depth
18:12:08 <ChrisOelmueller> oh and the last thing i want to complain about for today was the zot trap on d:5 with ribbit trying to blink on it for the lulz
18:12:14 <ChrisOelmueller> that *really* sucked.
18:12:23 <evilmike> zot trap on d:5...?
18:12:28 <Zannick> *zot* trap on d:5
18:12:29 <ChrisOelmueller> it was a weird vault, yes
18:12:29 <Grunt> o_O
18:12:54 <ChrisOelmueller> <ChrisOelmueller> zot trap on d:5, really        <simmarine> is it a vault? ive seen a dumb one in d:6
18:13:05 <Grunt> Oh, evilmike, that reminds me.
18:13:25 <Grunt> I think a couple of wad's woods vaults are getting placed a bit oddly.
18:13:30 <Grunt> Particularly _settlement on D:2.
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18:14:32 <HangedMan> also, |amethyst, while I'm reviewing vault-related bug things, the zot colour vaults and layouts screw up if you use &L and then &[ctrl-r]
18:14:49 <|amethyst> I'm not terribly surprised
18:14:50 <HangedMan> it can be fixed just by giving those vaults allow_dup
18:14:52 <evilmike> I see no vaults that place d:5 zot traps
18:15:03 <HangedMan> yes, those are horrible hacks
18:15:32 <evilmike> what about just colouring zot in a more normal way, instead of using vaults for it
18:15:32 <|amethyst> There are a number of other things that can screw up with &L and &^R
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18:16:02 <|amethyst> e.g. you can only do &^R so many times on Zot:5
18:16:15 <HangedMan> or v:8
18:16:18 <|amethyst> once you run out of orb chamber maps, it fails (and throws your game into a loop)
18:17:03 <evilmike> ChrisOelmueller: if you can confirm that a vault placed a zot trap there, I'd like to know which one did it
18:17:22 <|amethyst> yeah, subvaults don't get reclaimed the way top-level
18:17:24 <|amethyst> ones do
18:17:28 <HangedMan> |amethyst, actually, there's a vault that is very easy to prove there's something silly about see-through-feature-walls
18:17:31 <evilmike> I can't find it (grepping for vaults with "zot trap"). So this might be some weird bug
18:17:54 <HangedMan> shop_statue
18:17:55 <ChrisOelmueller> there is no way that segment was not a vault, it even had two highly symmetric entry paths into it
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18:18:05 <ChrisOelmueller> will try looking for stuff, yes
18:18:11 <HangedMan> perhaps something using the any_trap glyph?
18:18:13 <Grunt> ChrisOelmueller, was this online? Can you bring it up on TV or something?
18:18:24 <Zannick> i just grepped for any_trap
18:18:35 <evilmike> ah, it's "any trap"
18:18:42 <Zannick> maybe i'll repull
18:18:58 <Zannick> i didn't see any uses outside abyss, spider, and zot
18:19:03 <evilmike> !vault minivault_13
18:19:05 <evilmike> was this the one?
18:19:08 <Henzell> Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/200870
18:19:36 <ChrisOelmueller> nope
18:19:42 <HangedMan> ...
18:19:50 <ChrisOelmueller> should have died there to get the vault name :<
18:19:52 <HangedMan> except that vault doesn't have transparent anyway argh
18:23:02 <|amethyst> HangedMan:  Yeah, I think that one would not have its current behaviour of generating in hallways if it were not transparent
18:23:12 <HangedMan> the underlying nature of 5708 is obvious when zot places statues in hallways, though it doesn't break staircases (and there it is probably defendable as neat behaviour)
18:24:00 <Thann> |amethyst: i have a quick question if you are there?
18:24:00 <Henzell> Thann: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
18:24:06 <|amethyst> Thann: yes?
18:24:11 <evilmike> well, I see one vault added about a week ago that uses '^' isntead of '~'
18:24:19 <evilmike> I have no idea if that was the offending one, but I'll change it anyway
18:24:40 <ChrisOelmueller> could you paste that vault?
18:24:42 <|amethyst> should ^ ever be used?
18:25:01 <Grunt> evilmike, which vault is it?
18:25:18 <evilmike> wad_floor_pattern_trapped
18:25:28 <evilmike> I'm not sure if '^' ever has a legitimate use
18:25:46 <Zannick> !vault wad_floor_pattern_trapped
18:25:48 <Henzell> Couldn't find wad_floor_pattern_trapped in the Crawl source tree
18:25:49 <Thann> |amethyst: in regards to the chunk-autopickup bug report, should I make a little hotfix that resets all table to all 0's and  prevents the bug?
18:26:03 <Zannick> @vault wad_floor_pattern_trapped
18:26:06 <Grunt> ChrisOelmueller, Zannick: http://pastebin.com/LDf9pL5B
18:26:06 <|amethyst> Thann:  prevents how?
18:26:29 <HangedMan> clearly should get cheibot to provide vaults too
18:26:32 <Zannick> yeah, ^ is random trap
18:27:08 <Thann> never writes to the table becasue of option.force_autpoickup
18:27:21 <ChrisOelmueller> how about wad_rectangle_vault?
18:27:25 <HangedMan> brain twinges at that trap placement but whatever
18:27:32 <|amethyst> Thann:  doesn't that mean the menu will show all "off"?
18:27:52 <|amethyst> Thann:  that's why I was thinking it was dependent on tri-state menus
18:28:13 <Thann> it should be dependant on the tri-state menu
18:28:20 <|amethyst> yes then
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18:28:32 <Thann> but i dident want users to suffer the bug untill that menu was finished & commited
18:28:34 <Zannick> wad_dig_loot also has ^
18:28:36 <|amethyst> once you have the tri-state menu, that's exactly the fix I had in mind
18:29:03 <|amethyst> Hm
18:29:06 <ChrisOelmueller> yeah it was wad_rectangle_vault
18:29:14 <ChrisOelmueller> 100% sure on that
18:29:28 <evilmike> already fixed the three offending ones
18:29:31 <evilmike> thanks
18:29:35 <ChrisOelmueller> great :)
18:29:37 <alefury> !learn add alefury guarantee branch entry vaults
18:30:16 <Thann> !messages
18:30:16 <Henzell> alefury[6/6]: guarantee branch entry vaults
18:30:16 <Henzell> (1/2) |amethyst said (2d 8h 45m 31s ago): how do you prefer to be credited?  Real Name,  Nick,  Real 'Nick' Name ?
18:30:16 <Thann> !messages
18:30:16 <Henzell> (1/1) |amethyst said (2d 8h 35m 22s ago): Adding you to CREDITS.txt with your real name for now; let me know if that should be changed
18:30:17 <HangedMan> more chances for people to die to d:14 liches and fire giants
18:30:19 <Thann> =/
18:30:25 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r21bc142ced44 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/ (mini_features.des mini_monsters.des): Fix some trap glyphs in recently added vaults.
18:30:38 <HangedMan> to lair:3 guardian serpents and lair:3 swamp dragons
18:31:40 -!- |amethyst has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
18:31:44 <HangedMan> to lemuel's d:6 orc sorcerers
18:33:02 <alefury> HangedMan: i think guaranteeing branch entry vaults would be good anyway
18:33:10 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev
18:33:13 <evilmike> Grunt: yeah I guess those wood vaults ought to be less rectangular
18:33:15 <alefury> they might have to be cleaned up, and some additional ones might be needed
18:33:18 <Thann> |amethyst: also using my real name is fine, thanks
18:33:26 <|amethyst> Thann:  what's the last message you got from me?
18:33:27 <HangedMan> well, yes, vaults are pretty good at being decorative and most dummies don't really need to be around
18:33:33 <|amethyst> before I disconnected
18:33:37 <HangedMan> bloody 10% chance to ever place abyss feature vaults
18:33:38 <alefury> but branch entry vaults in general are awesome, and i think having branch entries without them is a huge waste
18:33:41 <Thann> "hm"
18:33:51 <|amethyst> I say that a lot
18:33:57 <Thann> hah
18:34:13 <Thann> "once you have the tri-state menu, that's exactly the fix I had in mind"
18:34:32 <|amethyst> Thann:  everything showing up as "off" is more than just appearance, because it means that, to turn off autopickup of an item type that would normally be on based on your options, you have to turn it on, leave the menu, re-enter the menu, and turn it back off
18:34:38 <|amethyst> Thann:  that said, I guess that's less of a problem than the current situation, which affects everyone whether they use the menu or not
18:35:27 <Thann> i was only going to reset the table to 0's on char load to fix any foulups that had already ossured
18:35:39 <Thann> other than that it swould behave normally
18:36:06 <Thann> occured*
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18:37:02 <|amethyst> If you don't set f_ap based on the options, won't the items be initialized to "off" in the menu?
18:37:47 <alefury> evilmike, |amethyst: what is your opinion on guaranteeing entry vaults?
18:37:51 <alefury> for branches i mean
18:38:27 <Thann> 0 means "use another method to determine if it should be autopicked up" -1 is the true "off"
18:38:29 <evilmike> could work as long as every branch gets a large selection (currently is not the case)
18:38:37 <alefury> doesnt have to be super large
18:38:44 <Thann> e.g. force "never pickup"
18:38:51 <|amethyst> Thann:  right, but both show up the same in the menu
18:38:54 <evilmike> also i think they should vary in threat, with many entry vaults being decorative
18:38:58 <Thann> yes
18:39:03 <HangedMan> hall of blades doesn't even have any entry vaults
18:39:03 <Thann> that is true
18:39:15 <alefury> i think almost all entry vaults should have monsters
18:39:17 <HangedMan> (still want to make it a serial vault)
18:39:28 <Thann> so if they have an exception setup it will not be reflected in the menu
18:39:33 <alefury> to introduce players to the threats they will face in the branch
18:39:38 <|amethyst> Thann:  Which means that, with your fix but without the tri-state menu, people are going to be confused (and are not likely to be able to figure out how to set it to -1)
18:39:47 <alefury> also to spice up the level the entrance appears on in a flavorful way
18:39:58 <Thann> ok i see what you mean now
18:40:17 <HangedMan> entry vaults can vaguely mean spoilers with magic mapping, though this mostly matters for temple
18:40:28 <Thann> its just a "lesser of two annoyences" situation
18:40:39 <evilmike> actually, I'm against giving every branch entry a vault
18:40:43 <Thann> until i get the menu reworked
18:41:00 <alefury> evilmike: why?
18:41:03 <evilmike> with Elf, it deliberately lacks entry vaults
18:41:09 <evilmike> it has "arrival vaults" instead
18:41:14 <alefury> yes, that is just as good
18:41:23 <alefury> better in the case of elf
18:41:33 <alefury> also might be good for slime
18:41:35 <HangedMan> slime could have arrival vaults but it probably wouldn't stop crazy people from entering them early
18:42:27 <alefury> vaults dont really need one unless they get changed to actually be different from D in anything but layout
18:42:44 <HangedMan> !seen mumra
18:42:45 <Henzell> I last saw mumra at Sat Apr 21 13:52:20 2012 UTC (7w 5d 9h 50m 24s ago) quitting with message Read error: Connection reset by peer.
18:43:07 <HangedMan> welp, mumra's disappeared again, no referring to his plans for vault-heavy vaults
18:43:08 <evilmike> i also dont think the vestibule of hell should have entry vaults, aside from the occasional vault that has a hell portal
18:43:17 <evilmike> this is because the vestibule of hell is basically a gigantic entry vault
18:43:19 <|amethyst> Thann:  others might disagree with me, but personally I would probably not make the fix just yet, since it really just swaps one bug for another, and changes the appearance of the menu in a way that will be undone soon
18:43:43 <Thann> ok cool, thats what i wanted to know
18:44:13 <alefury> evilmike: let me rephrase: I think every branch that currently has the potential to have an entry or arrival vault should have it guaranteed instead
18:44:26 <|amethyst> Thann:  when you do add that fix, btw, see this commit for an example
18:44:32 <|amethyst> %git 12d4010
18:44:32 <Cheibriados> |amethyst * r12d4010c5687: Don't mangle the level stack when viewing other branches. (6 weeks ago, 1 file, 36+ 33-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/12d4010c5687
18:44:57 <|amethyst> it checks the previous version in the save, and only applies the fix if that is a buggy version
18:45:02 <HangedMan> I thought the point of the listing was inconsistency, not just example after example
18:45:25 <evilmike> alefury: sounds fine to me
18:45:44 <|amethyst> hm
18:45:59 <|amethyst> are there maybe technical reasons for the dummy entries?
18:46:17 <|amethyst> is it possible that all the non-dummy entries could fail to place?
18:46:32 <alefury> yes
18:46:44 <|amethyst> then what?
18:46:51 <evilmike> when that happens I think it just places the entry normally
18:46:53 <alefury> i think it is possible that any vault larger than 1x1 will fail
18:46:55 <HangedMan> reset the level instead?
18:46:59 <eeviac_> staff acquirement still bugged, just got a staff of enhancement under trog :(
18:47:02 <Thann> |amethyst: duely noted.
18:47:08 <eeviac_> er enchantments*
18:47:08 <Thann> thanks
18:47:42 <evilmike> there's no dummy zot entry vaults, and that one fails to place sometimes. You just get a regular zot portal
18:47:50 <evilmike> I assume it works the same way for other branches (why wouldn't it?)
18:47:50 <|amethyst> hm
18:48:45 <Zannick> there is a dummy zot entry vault; it places three portals
18:48:52 <Zannick> and up to one mimic
18:48:58 <alefury> im willing to make a patch for that btw, including looking at all the entry vaults and changing the depth of inappropriate ones
18:49:25 <alefury> i just wanted to know if something like that might be accepted
18:49:41 <evilmike> Zannick: it doesn't really act as a dummy
18:49:50 <Zannick> sure, i guess
18:51:28 <|amethyst> eeviac_:  acquirement doesn't guarantee rods for trog worshippers
18:51:38 <eeviac_> what? since when?
18:52:15 <alefury> the bots say its guaranteed
18:52:21 <alefury> ??staff acquirement[2]
18:52:22 <Henzell> staff acquirement[2/2]: Trog worshippers always get a random rod. Warning: this includes rod of striking.
18:52:29 <|amethyst> %git 99622cc
18:52:29 <Cheibriados> elliptic * r99622cc6e4f5: Make staff acquirement less deterministic. (8 months ago, 1 file, 28+ 48-) https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/99622cc6e4f5
18:52:34 <eeviac_> I have never gotten an enhancer while under trog
18:52:36 <eeviac_> crap
18:52:44 <eeviac_> why :|
18:52:59 <alefury> well, either the entry is outdated, or something broke when kilobyte split rod and staff item types
18:53:09 <|amethyst> the entry is outdated
18:53:24 <ChrisOelmueller> also lots of things broke when kilobyte did that. :)
18:53:39 <eeviac_> but getting an enhancer staff under trog is about as bad as getting boots for a troll
18:53:51 <eeviac_> you can't use it
18:53:53 <Thann> |amethyst: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5758 is a duplicate of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5772
18:53:59 <ChrisOelmueller> you could, in theory, abandon trog
18:54:04 <eeviac_> yeah but
18:54:05 <ChrisOelmueller> you cannot abandon being a troll though
18:54:14 <eeviac_> I know
18:54:16 <ChrisOelmueller> which is a difference. i'm not saying it matters a lot
18:55:00 <|amethyst> Thann:  thanks, not sure how I missed that one
18:55:05 <alefury> the chance seems to be 20%
18:55:38 <Thann> thanks
18:55:38 <|amethyst> hm
18:55:43 <alefury> !learn edit staff_acquirement[2] s/always /
18:55:45 <Henzell> staff acquirement[2/2]: Trog worshippers get a random rod. Warning: this includes rod of striking.
18:55:51 <|amethyst> looking at the code pre-99622cc  and it looks like it still wasn't guaranteed then
18:56:04 <alefury> !learn edit staff_acquirement[2] s/random rod/random rot 80% of the time
18:56:05 <Henzell> staff acquirement[2/2]: Trog worshippers get a random rot 80% of the time. Warning: this includes rod of striking.
18:56:10 <ChrisOelmueller> yesss
18:56:14 <ChrisOelmueller> needs moar random rot
18:56:20 <alefury> ugh
18:56:27 <eeviac_> isn't the threat of striking bad enough
18:56:28 <ChrisOelmueller> scnr :)
18:56:29 <alefury> !learn edit staff_acquirement[2] s/ rot/ rod
18:56:30 <Henzell> staff acquirement[2/2]: Trog worshippers get a random rod 80% of the time. Warning: this includes rod of striking.
18:56:37 <|amethyst> it has nothing to do with Trog worship anyway
18:56:40 <alefury> yes
18:56:43 <|amethyst> merely your skills
18:56:44 <alefury> i am lazy
18:56:47 <alefury> change it more if you want
18:56:57 <|amethyst> so if you come to trog from a wizard background, you'll be getting staves for a while
18:56:58 <ChrisOelmueller> i propose !learn del
18:57:00 <alefury> also, evidently i need to sleep. now.
18:57:10 <|amethyst> ??staff acquirement
18:57:11 <Henzell> staff acquirement[1/2]: You'll get either a rod, the enhancer staff corresponding to your best magic skill, or wizardry/energy/channeling/power.
18:57:36 <alefury> !learn del staff_acquirement[2]
18:57:38 <Henzell> Deleted staff acquirement[2/2]: Trog worshippers get a random rod 80% of the time. Warning: this includes rod of striking.
18:57:46 <|amethyst> [1] is wrong too
18:58:02 <alefury> huh?
18:58:13 <|amethyst> oh, never mind
18:58:33 <|amethyst> I was misreading, never mind
18:59:04 <|amethyst> wait, no, it is... you could get an unrelated enhancer
18:59:21 <|amethyst> if it gets picked by the random2(NUM_STAVES); and never overridden by anything else
18:59:41 <alefury> !learn edit staff_acquirement[1] s/, or/,
18:59:42 <Henzell> staff acquirement[1/1]: You'll get either a rod, the enhancer staff corresponding to your best magic skill, wizardry/energy/channeling/power.
18:59:58 <alefury> !learn edit staff_acquirement[1] s/power/power or a completely random staff
18:59:59 <Henzell> staff acquirement[1/1]: You'll get either a rod, the enhancer staff corresponding to your best magic skill, wizardry/energy/channeling/power or a completely random staff.
19:00:06 <|amethyst> !learn del staff_acquirement
19:00:06 <Henzell> Deleted staff acquirement[1/1]: You'll get either a rod, the enhancer staff corresponding to your best magic skill, wizardry/energy/channeling/power or a completely random staff.
19:00:21 <alefury> well, i hope youre actually going to rewrite it!
19:00:23 <alefury> good night!
19:00:28 <|amethyst> oh
19:00:32 <|amethyst> I missed your addition, sorry
19:00:43 <ChrisOelmueller> llearn add staff_acquirement Gives you random things. Still better than misc!
19:00:47 <Grunt> evilmike, thought re Fannar:
19:00:57 <Grunt> put SPELL_BLINK_OTHER into the empty slot.
19:00:58 <alefury> ChrisOelmueller: thats just really misleading
19:00:59 <Grunt> Er...
19:01:01 <Grunt> SPELL_BLINK_RANGE.
19:01:14 <ChrisOelmueller> that's how i roll :)
19:01:25 <Grunt> I've noticed that most of his deaths have been people beating him up in melee range, so if he makes more of an effort to stay out of melee range...
19:01:56 <alefury> Grunt: maybe wait a bit to see if he kills some people?
19:02:00 <alefury> even harold does that i think
19:02:01 <evilmike> Grunt: hmm. personally, I think people just comment on him being easy because he's new
19:02:12 <alefury> !lg * killer=harold s=cv
19:02:12 <Sequell> 715 games for * (killer=harold): 135x 0.9, 117x 0.10, 82x 0.8, 81x 0.7, 62x 0.10-a, 47x 0.6, 39x 0.11-a, 36x 0.5, 34x 0.8-a, 28x 0.9-a, 26x 0.6-a, 20x 0.7-a, 2x 0.5-a, 2x 0.4, 2x 0.3, 0.2, 0.1
19:02:26 <alefury> see? he kills people all the time!
19:02:30 <HangedMan> harold is extremely dangerous, but only really pre-lair
19:02:33 <Grunt> I agree that waiting and seeing how he does is probably a good idea :)
19:03:07 -!- alefury has quit []
19:03:09 <ChrisOelmueller> nobody waited for spider to kill people, it was just megabuffed :(
19:03:38 <Grunt> !lg * map=~grunt
19:03:40 <Sequell> 1. nubinia the Convoker (L15 TeSu), worshipper of Sif Muna, demolished by an emperor scorpion in Spider:5 (grunt spider rune circles) on 2012-06-07, with 88251 points after 43852 turns and 11:20:33.
19:04:12 <HangedMan> I don't like guppyfry's spider-shaped elf-esque rune vault
19:04:16 <evilmike> I don't either
19:04:21 <evilmike> I'm going to remvoe it, probably
19:04:33 <HangedMan> the emperor scorpions across water are silly and it is really just a very, very long rush
19:05:12 <Grunt> I've been trying to think of more Spider endings, because it is sorely lacking in endings, especially so if you remove one.
19:05:12 <HangedMan> at least in elf:4 most of the elves are very dangerous to keep in even los
19:05:18 <evilmike> I also want to change web spawning (it is almost irrelevant on spider:1-4 and skyrockets on spider:5. also divides by zero if you make spider 6 levels long), and lower the number of pre-placed webs again
19:05:41 <|amethyst> !learn add staff_acquirement Gives a rod or a staff, weighted towards something new and useful given your skills, but nothing is guaranteed.
19:05:41 <Henzell> staff acquirement[1/1]: Gives a rod or a staff, weighted towards something new and useful given your skills, but nothing is guaranteed.
19:06:34 <|amethyst> !learn add staff_acquirement If your Evocations is greater than (1d(sum of casting skills) - 4), turn to page 3 with an 80% chance.  Otherwise, turn to page 4.
19:06:35 <Henzell> staff acquirement[2/2]: If your Evocations is greater than (1d(sum of casting skills) - 4), turn to page 3 with an 80% chance.  Otherwise, turn to page 4.
19:06:41 <evilmike> Grunt: being limited to two endings isn't such a big flaw... branches have had to get by with just one ending before
19:06:43 <HangedMan> I do have a little plan for a very open spider:$ vault but I've been distracted by encompass vault plans
19:06:47 <evilmike> or in really old versions, no ending
19:06:58 <HangedMan> slime, sorta shoals
19:07:02 <Grunt> I presume you don't mean 'no ending' in the sense of Elf:38.
19:07:03 <Grunt> <_<
19:07:13 <evilmike> I'm not trying to discourage new endings btw, just saying it's not an urgent matter
19:07:15 <|amethyst> !learn add staff_acquirement You get a random rod.  It might be striking.
19:07:16 <Henzell> staff acquirement[3/3]: You get a random rod.  It might be striking.
19:07:38 <evilmike> Grunt: no ending, as in you reach crypt:5 and it's just a normal level
19:07:56 <evilmike> Elf had two endings for a *very* long time, so did Snake
19:08:06 <Grunt> Snake has plenty of endings now.
19:08:15 <HangedMan> abyss has a chance for no ending!
19:08:18 <ChrisOelmueller> heh
19:08:26 <Grunt> Really, HangedMan?
19:08:29 <Grunt> I never would have guessed.
19:08:41 <Grunt> fr: no ending for Zot.
19:08:43 <Grunt> >____________>
19:08:54 <HangedMan> 16 rune vaults is somewhat silly, really
19:09:07 <|amethyst> !learn add staff_acquirement If you haven't yet seen the enhancer for your best skill, you have a 50% chance to get that.  If you have seen that enhancer, you have a 1/3 chance of a completely random staff.  Otherwise, you get wizardry, energy, power, or channeling.
19:09:07 <ChrisOelmueller> haven't seen a vault-less abyss rune in ages
19:09:08 <Henzell> staff acquirement[4/4]: If you haven't yet seen the enhancer for your best skill, you have a 50% chance to get that.  If you have seen that enhancer, you have a 1/3 chance of a completely random staff.  Otherwise, you get wizardry, energy, power, or channeling.
19:09:47 <|amethyst> !learn edit staff_acquirement[3] s/channeling/channeling, with the first two being twice as likely./
19:09:48 <Henzell> No change because the regex failed to match.
19:09:54 <|amethyst> !learn edit staff_acquirement[4] s/channeling/channeling, with the first two being twice as likely./
19:09:54 <Henzell> staff acquirement[4/4]: If you haven't yet seen the enhancer for your best skill, you have a 50% chance to get that.  If you have seen that enhancer, you have a 1/3 chance of a completely random staff.  Otherwise, you get wizardry, energy, power, or channeling, with the first two being twice as likely..
19:10:00 <HangedMan> it's about as likely as finding abyss furniture
19:10:17 <HangedMan> also can said chance be lifted slightly
19:10:38 <evilmike> if you want to fix something submit a patch
19:10:59 <evilmike> I'm too busy doing other (very boring) stuff
19:11:15 <Grunt> (evilmike is getting BORED.)
19:11:33 <evilmike> making all these forest vaults not-rectangles
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19:11:46 <|amethyst> evilmike:  ruination!
19:11:49 <HangedMan> I guess I'll wait for kilobyte, since he expressed interest in expanding the "screw dummy vaults" to almost all uses
19:11:57 <HangedMan> does ruination ruin trees
19:12:32 <HangedMan> ...and wouldn't that possibly need no_rtele_into depending on the vault
19:12:34 <BlastHardcheese> fr dummy vault
19:12:50 <Grunt> We already have a dummy vault, don't we?
19:12:51 <HangedMan> already exists, there are some training dummy vaults in elf
19:13:00 * Grunt gestures at HangedMan.  HangedMan resists.
19:13:11 <|amethyst> ruination should no longer create disconnected spots
19:14:02 <evilmike> tagging them with "ruin" doesn't help, sadly
19:14:19 <|amethyst> but you're right, trees don't get ruined
19:14:24 <|amethyst> :(
19:14:35 <Grunt> That ought to be simple enough to deal with.
19:14:49 <HangedMan> partially damaged tree, sounds like a good renamed-feature
19:14:57 <evilmike> even then, the vaults would still be rectangular
19:14:59 <Grunt> I remember needing to tweak something to that effect when I was working on the Forest, but this is going to be something different that needs to be tweaked.
19:15:18 <|amethyst> I think trees not being ruined makes sense
19:15:20 <evilmike> I'm chopping off the corners and making them look more "organic"
19:15:37 <|amethyst> it's ruination by time and nature, not by a giant explosion
19:15:55 <HangedMan> pff, giant explosions happen over time all the time
19:16:10 <HangedMan> not the first adventurer in the dungeon
19:16:29 <|amethyst> "Entered level 3 of Tunguska"
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19:34:21 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r40dab060ab33 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Don't place rectangular forests.
19:34:31 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r8f3e0d7bea02 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Fix some more trap glyphs in vaults.
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19:48:21 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r617d429aaeeb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Revamp guppyfry_spider_rune.
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21:44:28 <CIA-50> 03nrook * r68f7251665cb 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Fix repetition of controlled blink wasting MP.
22:01:54 <Wensley> %fannar
22:01:59 <Cheibriados> Fannar (12e) | Spd: 10 | Int: high | HD: 10 | HP: 80 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 8 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 961 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), armour, ice beast, refrigeration, blink.

22:01:59 <Wensley> %??fannar
22:02:10 <Wensley> Grunt: nooooo god why more elves
22:02:32 <Grunt> ...point me to some other elven uniques besides the twins. :p
22:02:54 <Wensley> I'm going to turn him into a pulsating lump
22:03:03 <Wensley> pulsating lump unique
22:04:19 <CIA-50> 03dolorous * r98514afbdbb5 10/crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc: Remove references to missile enchantments in Ely's weapon-dulling wrath.
22:08:19 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst * rcb54cf5b59bc 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Display staircase up mimics properly in ^X (#5374).
22:10:24 <CIA-50> 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rc7da6dc31f84 10/crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Display staircase up mimics properly in ^X (#5374).
22:10:35 <CIA-50> 03nrook 07stone_soup-0.10 * r5186f1ce949a 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Fix repetition of controlled blink wasting MP.
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22:20:20 <CIA-50> 03evilmike * r755d51ee0860 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Give more XP for killing Fannar.
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23:30:09 <Gretell> nobo (L11 SpSt) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1403 failed. (D (Sprint))
23:30:33 <Grunt> o_o
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