00:03:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2148-g5397867 (33) 00:12:48 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:15:26 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:16:34 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:16:35 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:11 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2148-g5397867 00:30:57 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:34:09 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 01:00:02 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:05 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:54 fr: make it so you discover a monster's spell set once you see it cast enough spells to make it unambiguous 01:17:36 that would only make sense for monsters that have multiple spellbooks. for most, it would make more sense to always put the spells on its description screen 01:17:37 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:20:06 evilmike: I made yor suggested changes, if you want to check it out the patch is on mantis: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4238 01:20:42 evilmike: yes, both these things should be done 01:20:56 it's spoilery that you don't know without gretell 01:23:27 i have issues with how you can use sequell to look up player ghost spells. i'm not as bothered by people looking up monsters w/ gretell though 01:24:16 I don't mind that people can do it 01:24:26 i basically think that a lot of the info should be available in-game, but i've seen arguments against that before 01:25:04 the message would be something like: 'You can deduce the ogre mage's spells now. (x, v)' 01:27:25 a bit verbose, though 01:28:09 also, a few random issues like: if a spellcaster casts a spell and 'you resist.' you know it's a hex, but not what kind. also, vault monsters with altered spellbooks need to be accounted for somehow 01:29:37 that first one is not a problem 01:30:18 the second one is accounted for by proper description text, threat colouring (sometimes), and (if you have to) looking it up with gretell like you do with any other monster 01:32:28 not everyone who plays crawl is on ##crawl. (though I wouldn't mind if it they were. have you ever played osu?) 01:33:23 what 01:34:51 osu! is an emulator for the ouendan/elite beat agents series. if you are running osu and have an internet connection, you are on the server for it. it has an irc-compatible chat (so you can connect to it otherwise for example), and pretty much anything you do in osu is broadcasted and can be spectated by other people, or vice versa 01:35:09 i still have no idea what that is 01:35:26 http://osu.ppy.sh/ 01:35:40 Thann: I found a bug (in tiles, might be in console as well). I'll try to explain it as best I can 01:35:56 ok great 01:36:04 Thann: I started a healer, walked up to the first unidentified potion I could find. It has a green box around it (this means it will be automatically picked up) 01:36:12 now I go into the '\' screen and deselect potions of curing 01:36:19 for some reason the green box disappears around the potion 01:36:23 hmm 01:36:44 this _only_ happens when potion of curing is deselected (it's the first item on the list) 01:37:09 ok 01:37:13 should also note that while the green box disappears around the potion, it is still automatically picked up 01:37:30 that is very strange 01:38:29 i was able to reproduce 02:01:31 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:24 evilmike: this is apparently a pre-existing problem, apparently whenever an unidentified potion comes into view something asks item.cc->_is_option_autopickup if it we want to autopickup a potion of curing =/ 02:14:22 interesting 02:20:05 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:22:13 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:57 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:57:57 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:04 galehar: could you perhaps tell me what I'm doing wrong with Transifex? Does it have a way to tell apart foreign changes? 03:15:09 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:52 galehar: also, what would be the best way to post missing English descriptions, so poor dolorous doesn't have to fix my crap? 03:18:16 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:22:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:25:29 evilmike: I updated the ticket with the problem, i was wondering who i might discuss the issue with. 03:25:32 There is a bug where tileview.cc-_tile_place_item() calls item.cc-item_needs_autopickup() if an unidentified item on the ground should be visually marked for autopickup. it does this by sending first item in the object type e.g. identify for scrolls and curing for potions. If this item is marked 'never-autopickup' there will be no visual indicator on the ground. I can think of several ways to fox this but I don't know what the most professio 03:25:33 nal way is at present. 03:30:09 -!- Thann has quit [Quit: be back in 30 min] 03:38:22 03kilobyte * rd78229272561 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/quotes.txt: Rename the quote for imp -> crimson imp, fix cacodemon capitalization. 03:38:34 03kilobyte * r1bb35b596737 10/crawl-ref/source/util/db_lint: db_lint: point out quotes for non-existant keys. 03:47:55 kilobyte: your commit message says it all, my scripts don't handle merging well. I'm working on it. 03:50:18 about missing descs, you mean how to allow users to input them throught transifex? Maybe like I did with quotes, by creating placeholder entries 03:57:53 those fruiting plants are probably not worth descs on their own, but I'd still use soft links (in the database) rather than dbname: so they can be overridden 03:59:03 oklob plant demonologists could perhaps even have a dbname: outright, as there's a decent desc that could be used for them ("oklob given sentience and teached to use magic" or some such, without mentioning magic school) 03:59:52 Wucad Mu, on the other hand, is a high-priority one 04:01:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:36 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:13 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:14:56 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:14:56 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:08 03kilobyte * r52f3b62b3b00 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/quotes.txt: Link oklob sapling to not . 04:20:19 03kilobyte * r6da496a23086 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/quotes.txt: Remove invalid quote links to and . 04:31:24 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:36 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:08 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:42:47 -!- Thann has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:20 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2150-gd782292 05:17:10 -!- NotEvenARickshaw has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:17:26 due: what's the point in "greater ghost moth" in your Crypt ending? All it does is having slightly more hp (by 15%) and nothing else. 05:18:33 I'd use a regular one, or perhaps one with that bit of extra hp but no custom name. Warning people that the monster is stronger is good, but not if the difference is too small to notice. 05:30:02 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:25 kilobyte: hm, I thought I'd amped it up a lot more than that 05:32:19 MONS: ghost moth name:greater col:lightmagenta n_adj n_spe hd:15 05:32:23 @??ghost moth 05:32:23 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | Int: insect | HD: 13 | HP: 50-89 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Dam: 1805(drain strength), 1805(drain dexterity), 1208(nasty poison) | Fl: fly | Res: 06magic(104), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 2288. 05:33:48 oh 05:33:52 hm 05:33:59 I thought I'd tweaked it more 05:42:08 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:06 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:14 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:28 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 06:01:43 -!- Thann has quit [Quit: sleeeep] 06:13:56 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:05 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:14:10 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:03 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:44:03 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:21 why is there a greater ghost moth in crypt 06:49:23 they aren't even undead 06:53:46 Eronarn: +1 07:05:27 fr: holycrypt 07:05:28 holytomb 07:05:56 PatashuXantheres: earlier i made the suggestion of having sphinxes be holies 07:06:01 guardians of the dead 07:06:16 03kilobyte * rfa0a1013a1da 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Descs for oklob plant wizards (many kinds) from Sprint. 07:06:17 03kilobyte * r087fa8fdd03f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/quotes.txt: A pair of quotes for "bat". 07:06:18 03kilobyte * r5e95d302fe7f 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Descs for the rest of renamed statues. 07:06:18 03kilobyte * rb0d4cc38633e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des: Temporarily degrade "greater ghost moth", until due comes up with something. 07:06:28 03kilobyte * r2c5830c08f73 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: A desc for Eringya's golem. 07:06:28 03kilobyte * r400a532dabe8 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Descs for renamed plants other than blue_anna's fruiting ones. 07:06:29 03kilobyte * r71984a5f51ba 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: A desc for fruit trees (apple, apricot, citrus, pyrus, soapberry). 07:07:12 try those skeletal archers I just added... they're ordinary skeletal warriors with a bow, yet they do massive damage, far worse than yaktaurs 07:07:48 ECHAN 07:08:07 Eronarn: they fit more in the Tomb 07:08:26 yeah, i wouldn't put them in crypt 07:08:44 in fact does crypt still have the mummy end? i might remove that 07:12:04 yes it does 07:13:27 seems kind of repetitive with tomb... 07:13:34 though it seems to be pretty rare? 07:22:10 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:15 far worse than yaktaurs 07:35:18 sounds mighty fun 07:54:14 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:56:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:49 -!- PatashuXantheres is now known as Patashu 08:29:57 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:48 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:03 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:23 -!- jle has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:38 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:55 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2159-g71984a5 (33) 09:27:56 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:17 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:43:47 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:50:53 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:24 so, how exactly does this new Oka piety thing i see in the changelog work? 10:02:37 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:24 New tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5724) by dd 10:10:29 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:13:26 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:21 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:37 -!- cbus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:29 -!- cbus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:37 -!- res has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:22 -!- sreservoir has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:36 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:23 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:15:51 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:08 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:52 -!- Adeon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:21:05 -!- cbus_ has quit [*.net *.split] 11:21:05 -!- Ragdoll has quit [*.net *.split] 11:21:05 -!- MakMorn has quit [*.net *.split] 11:21:05 -!- Jatoskep has quit [*.net *.split] 11:21:06 -!- heteroy has quit [*.net *.split] 11:21:56 -!- Eronarn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:22:52 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:47 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:57 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:57 -!- cbus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:57 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:57 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:57 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:57 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:41:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:45:51 -!- cbus_ is now known as cbus 11:47:05 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:31 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:50:14 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:52:17 -!- _wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:37 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:54:38 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:49 -!- _wh1te has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:08:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:08 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:15:06 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:36:14 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:59 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:42 Intelligent monsters not running away while being attacked from afar with no way of counter-attacking (deep water) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5725) by A spy 12:55:55 doesn't sound very intelligent 13:01:59 Ctrl-G to prior unexplored level fails (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5726) by XuaXua 13:25:31 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:37 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:41 -!- Chousuke has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:03:03 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:10:38 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:27:45 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:16 Tiles for Decks (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5727) by ontoclasm 14:35:07 -!- Chousuke has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:40:10 03dolorous * rfead94a5dbfd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix wording and punctuation of more new descriptions. 14:48:46 -!- Guest86125 is now known as ChrisOelmueller 14:54:11 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:03:58 More tiles: axes (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5728) by dd 15:33:37 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:40 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:04:56 <|amethyst> Would there be a problem with making zombies take their body_size from the base monster type rather than just small/large based on the zombie type? 16:05:23 <|amethyst> there is a bug on mantis about stone giant skeletons being constrictable by nagas 16:05:43 <|amethyst> and if we had small or little constrictors it would be an issue on the low end as well 16:07:56 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:30 there's some issue with monster generation maybe? I seem to remember that there is weird stuff like trapdoor spider zombies and wyvern zombies are large so that they won't generate early 16:08:46 would be good to fix that also, of course... 16:12:03 what about having zombies and skeletons generate based on their base monster's depth, rather than just size? 16:12:49 now who would come up with such a weird idea 16:13:32 <|amethyst> how about "zombie" and "weak zombie" (or "inept zombie") rather than "large zombie" and "small zombie" 16:14:02 currently all zombies are the same, the size distinction is only for the glyph 16:14:10 I mean, same in relation to the base monster 16:14:12 <|amethyst> hm 16:14:20 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:14:23 ??zombie 16:14:24 zombie[1/2]: There are two kinds of zombies, small and large. All zombies are created from a base monster type. Zombies are slightly slower, slightly clumsier, have no special attacks, and take damage to maxHP instead of HP. It is very important to note that the zombie form of a normal speed monster is *slower* than normal speed! 16:14:25 ??zombie[2] 16:14:25 zombie[2/2]: All derived undead are -2 speed (min 3). Zombies are AC/EV -2/-5, d5+5 hit die; skeletons -6/-7, d4+4; simulacra -2/-5, d4, AF_COLD; spectral things +2/-5, d4+3, AF_DRAIN. 16:14:57 how about fixing stuff like elf zombies having better stats than some of the live elves? 16:15:03 monster generation also spawns them based on the size, but that code needs to be killed with fire 16:16:44 ChrisOelmueller: possibly more hp, right? 16:16:53 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2160-gfead94a 16:17:10 kilobyte: yeah. 16:17:51 |amethyst: couldn't non-fast forward monster on CDO so I rebased your changes on top of it, hope you don't mind 16:18:24 <|amethyst> np, I'll re-pull 16:18:30 <|amethyst> s/re-/force-/ 16:21:53 -!- sreservoir is now known as res 16:22:23 ooh no longer reading ?: for what you just purchased 16:22:27 03thann * r2ac40e9871b1 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: List items acquired from shops. 16:22:27 03|amethyst * r1199df84f6a5 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: Show gold after shop purchases. 16:24:36 |amethyst: showing gold after shop purchases sounds pretty useless to me, given that those numbers are there as you are buying stuff and most players use show_gold_turns anyway... 16:25:13 well, as long as it's not the default setting... 16:25:17 (why isn't it?) 16:25:32 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:43 elliptic: sadly, show_gold_turns is not the default 16:28:02 kilobyte: even so, as I said, all those numbers are there when you are buying the items 16:28:02 and 99% folks use defaults because they don't know about alternatives 16:28:15 why do they need to see their exact gold total twice in a row? 16:28:28 hmm yeah 16:28:34 (I would be happy to see show_gold_turns be default) 16:28:38 ^ 16:29:04 IIRC only dpeg argues against that, although he does that pretty loudly 16:29:16 on the other hand, tinyterm players may have a reason not to 16:29:17 (maybe game_turns also 16:29:26 ) 16:29:29 show_gold_turns, show_game_turns should both be defaults imo 16:29:45 tinyterm players still have their rcfile to rescue them 16:29:49 <|amethyst> hm 16:29:49 I removed both from the status display in Light, but reluctantly; I needed the extra line. 16:29:59 dtsund: extra line for glow? 16:30:01 Yeah 16:30:09 I also think pickup_mode = multi should be default. I think this is more controversial 16:30:11 If I were keeping it, I'd make it default and kill the option, though 16:30:18 I can't stand the default pickup mode but I think a lot of people are used to it 16:30:46 evilmike: I can't stand playing with pickup_mode = multi when people use it on robins... I have no idea which would be a better default though 16:31:07 <|amethyst> I can revert that last commit (the gold one) 16:31:43 evilmike: game_turns is potentially confusing is the only problem I see... since player_turns are shown elsewhere (and are used for scoring) 16:31:57 <|amethyst> I was thinking that there's no good way to see how much you spent after the fact 16:32:05 |amethyst: notes 16:32:09 <|amethyst> yeah 16:32:16 elliptic: change the "Turn" to "Time" on the right side panel 16:32:27 that... is a very good idea IMO 16:33:21 aye 16:33:24 kilobyte: I don't remember why dpeg doesn't want show_gold_turns to be default... is it that he thinks that people will worry about their turncount too much or something? 16:34:29 even if we don't make show_gold_turns default, though, I'd say that show_game_turns should be default and change Turn to Time as evilmike suggested 16:34:54 <|amethyst> is there any way to get your "score" time then? 16:34:59 <|amethyst> E I guess 16:35:03 it is listed in % also 16:35:10 I would guess the arugment for show_game_turns = false being the default is something like "it will confuse players" 16:35:23 I think making it default and changing it to say "Time" will get around that confusion issue 16:35:33 yeah 16:35:35 there might be other arguments, I can't think of any good ones though 16:36:15 03|amethyst * r46378c509948 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: Revert "Show gold after shop purchases." 16:36:48 about show_gold_turns, surely showing gold isn't a problem... only issues I can think of are something about the turns and losing a line of the monster list 16:37:09 Hm. I wonder if I could move evoke to 'e' without confusing too many people... 16:37:10 I think the main reason is to give extra space to the monster list 16:37:36 dtsund: candy wands 16:37:38 dtsund: did you remove food? i forget 16:37:43 let's fix DGL's handling of terminal sizes instead 16:37:47 I removed eating. 16:37:57 sounds good 16:37:59 Chunks are still present for necromantic purposes, fruit is still there for Fedhas. 16:38:03 dtsund: what if you make 'e' evoke and allow 'v' as well? Is having two keys for the same command a bad thing? 16:38:16 Eh, I could probably do that. 16:38:18 03kilobyte * rd28eff8887a9 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: If show_game_turns is set, label the display as Time: not Turn: 16:42:31 another option that should be default: show_inventory_weights 16:42:43 kilobyte: Oka doesn't seem to ever grant piety for a kill 16:42:53 or at least you don't get a message 16:43:05 evilmike: indeed 16:43:10 if you're burdened, it's nice to know how much you need to drop to make you unencumbered... I see no advantage for not showing inventory weights 16:43:21 it puts more numbers on the menu, but these are useful numbers 16:43:24 evilmike: +1 16:43:56 if concerned about number overflow, at least display them when at some threshold, e.g. 90% carrying capacity 16:44:27 kilobyte: oh, I guess it is just that you don't get a message 16:44:56 or do I have those muted accidentally? that might be a simple explanation, hm 16:45:14 no, I don't 16:47:18 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:48:17 "auto_drop_chunks = rotten" also seems like it could be a good default 16:48:31 what does that do? 16:49:29 makes you automatically drop rotten chunks while exploring (if you don't know sublimation or whatever) 16:49:57 only while exploring? what if you are running from boris and you turn around a corner and can't see him for two turns? 16:50:20 i usually just hold onto them to save turns 16:50:23 Presumably, autoexplore or autotravel 16:50:37 unless getting burdened, of course 16:50:43 And yeah, I only drop those if burdened 16:51:00 evilmike: too bad it's too buggy right now 16:51:24 it drops them on autopickup as well, I think 16:51:52 MarvinPA: not when exploring, when trying to pick something up would make you burdened 16:51:59 ahh right 16:52:15 that's it, yeah 16:52:45 it works wrong when the new item is a chunk itself 16:53:22 it 1. counts chunks _before_ the pickup, 2. sometimes falls into an infinite loop 16:57:57 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:21 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:46 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:06:04 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:08:20 03kilobyte * r6724fd4b9525 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Fix Okawaru not giving messages on accepting kills. 17:20:33 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:28:23 -!- Claws has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:23 -!- Claws is now known as HangedMan 17:29:58 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:30:40 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:23 Ten vaults. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5729) by Claws 17:40:38 HangedMan: " but also rather likely to not make the guardian mummies not actually dangerous." 17:40:42 what are you trying to say here? 17:41:08 guardian mummy with dagger is not much of a buff 17:41:19 guardian mummy with great mace at least can deal some damage? 17:42:16 that is correct. I was just trying to figure out what the phrase I quoted means 17:43:06 i think i understand it now 17:43:07 second set results in former and first set results in latter 17:49:57 is there a reason why hangedman_stitches_corridor has ORIENT: south? 17:50:11 the size and design make it look more like a floating vault 17:52:52 I couldn't remember the size restrictions for float and was playing it safe, either works 17:53:13 they can be much bigger than that 17:53:54 also, you submitted a floating vault bigger than that... 18:03:04 I'm scatterbrained as usual, yes, yes 18:16:32 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:07 wad's wood vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5730) by KiloByte 18:29:28 unicode, clearly the solution for when over 70 characters do different things 18:31:56 would reduce overloading existing glyphs 18:32:15 not needed in this particular set of vaults, though 18:37:48 have used ' for (!)no_monster_gen so often it is ridiculous 18:48:24 03kilobyte * r04fdece5571c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files in 3 dirs): wad's new plant tiles. 18:48:28 03kilobyte * r20dcbb64470d 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/UNUSED/monsters/plants/ (14 files): Put a bunch of wad's plant tiles into UNUSED/, for use in vaults, perhaps. 18:48:28 03kilobyte * r7dbfdb483f96 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 3 dirs): wad's set of floor tiles. 18:49:27 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:42 HangedMan: you don't really need to use that. if you put it in a vault i'm not going to change it, because it's harmless. but the effect is very, very, very small the way you use it 18:55:48 i would argue that it's a waste of time, on your part 18:55:57 * HangedMan shrugs 18:56:25 HangedMan: you can put that as a tag, it is global for the vault then 18:56:36 no, it is very selective nonsense 18:57:35 he uses KMASK and puts it on the vault border, usually 18:58:01 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:23 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:49 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:50 evilmike: if you'd take wad's "wood" vaults, one of them requires another wall tile 19:05:07 should I put it in? (Would have no real use otherwise) 19:07:16 kilobyte: yeah, might as well. 19:11:02 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 19:14:17 03kilobyte * r143ef3002054 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (dc-dngn/vaults/brick_dark_leak.png dc-wall.txt): Add a tile needed for one of wad's vaults. 19:14:51 I feel as though some of those vaults would be especially in place in the mythical Forest branch. <_< 19:15:32 oh, good call about the 1/6 mimic chance. wasn't thinking straight about that for some reason 19:15:44 if I remember correctly there are reservations about spriggans being so strong but having such miserable hp 19:15:49 Grunt: they actually don't have DEPTH lines. They'll work in Lair though 19:16:00 as something for the majority of a branch 19:16:29 I've thought that you could mix them up with something else forest-appropriate if you wanted to make a branch of it. 19:16:36 Grunt: there is no map generator (I have good plans), but everything is blocked by the monster set sucking 19:17:16 sentient trees 19:17:26 (particularly since i remember pegging orb mimic chance at 1/160 or something 19:17:27 the only thing that bothers me about the forest level is the narrow corridors + spriggan druids 19:17:29 ) 19:17:42 or rather, having a severe weakness: they kill melee chars dead, same for conjurers who can miss, but any spells that ignore EV (clouds, refrig, etc) completely trivialize them 19:17:42 I find there's no good counter to that, aside from retreating a lot 19:18:05 cloud cheese, panic-fireball 19:18:16 though the latter has obvious consequences 19:18:32 evilmike: druids were designed precisely for that 19:18:47 evilmike: although they obviously can be rebalanced 19:18:55 evilmike, kilobyte: currently druids ignore AC, I think they shouldn't 19:19:01 currently, Awaken Forest is no-miss, too 19:19:43 sunray is really strange too... it ignores rMsl for some reason 19:19:47 getting smacked by tree branches is something you can dodge quite easily 19:20:01 not ignoring rMsl would be a bug 19:20:07 no, it is a feature 19:20:10 letting awaken forest check AC/EV sounds good 19:20:13 go look at the code, it was intentional 19:20:15 I have no idea why 19:20:30 oh, misread what you said 19:20:33 elliptic: if it would _not_ ignore rMsl, it would be a bug 19:20:43 the other thing about druids is they are very spammy with summon caniforms 19:20:56 kilobyte: why? completely non-obvious to the player that rMsl doesn't help 19:21:26 how exactly a defense against projectiles can affect light? 19:21:30 why not? 19:21:33 "magic" 19:21:44 it helps against lightning bolts 19:22:03 those are pretty easy to deflect 19:22:05 I could see sunray ignoring EV if it was a smiting attack 19:22:16 cross-shaped smiting attack 19:22:26 from a player's point of view, sunray is something that the druid shoots of them 19:22:28 at them 19:22:32 evilmike: Sunray has very low accuracy, it obeys EV but not rMsl 19:23:18 druid used solar beam? 19:23:56 all I'm saying is that it is really spoilery that rMsl doesn't work... I've certainly wasted turns on rMsl many times before happening to run across this in the source code 19:24:14 HangedMan: they have a ranged attack, yes. You don't usually see it though, because they like to surround themselves with dogs and bears 19:25:14 I know their set, I am just briefly wondering how the logicistics worked before I remembered "magic" 19:25:24 er, druid, "gods" 19:25:25 Just add a message when you get sunrayed with rmsl up 19:25:33 'You sense this ray of light cannot be magically repelled.' 19:25:50 and why precisely can't it? 19:25:55 magic can't affect light? 19:26:12 it isn't like light never bends, too 19:26:14 light always goes across straight lines 19:26:30 it's not like a physical missile which you can bend the air around 19:26:41 neither is a bolt of lightning or fire or whatever 19:27:47 patashu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction 19:28:02 elliptic: yes, but it's not a diffraction spell 19:28:03 (though it could be made one!) 19:28:15 marvinpa: are bolts of lightning meant to be jagged things you hurl, or instantaneous arcs? 19:28:21 nobody has a clue how rMsl works as far as I can tell 19:28:26 if it's the former, it is a physical missile, just a very electrifying one 19:28:30 elliptic: "repel _missiles_", not "repel rays" 19:28:53 and I get the impression it's the former, with messages like 'Antaeus hurls a bolt of lightning at you.' or whatever it is 19:28:57 kilobyte: then why does it affect lightning bolts and such 19:29:12 it shouldn't affect them :) 19:29:16 easy solution 19:29:20 isn't that more "monsters that don't cast cast really wierdly" 19:29:26 the rat throws flame at you 19:29:54 i think this is a good guideline: if wind couldn't push it out of the way, rmsl won't work 19:30:06 yeah 19:30:09 wind can certainly push fire out of the way 19:30:17 it's an air spell 19:30:36 can wind push a bolt of draining away? a bolt of cold? a bolt of lightning? 19:30:43 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:47 seriously I think worrying about this level of realism is a bad idea 19:30:57 does dmsl do something special beyond wind to work even on magic dart 19:33:39 dmsl can't affect magic dart :p 19:34:15 seems fine for sunray to ignore both ev and rmsl if it's balanced accordingly i guess 19:34:40 yes, surely it should ignore EV 19:34:42 but yeah, every other beam/projectile that can be dodged is affected by rmsl 19:34:51 you aren't going to dodge something moving at the speed of light 19:35:08 elliptic: a lightning bolt moves about as fast, too, but you can dodge that 19:35:08 elliptic: you can dodge where you see the druid aiming it at :) 19:35:15 you look at where the monster is aiming it and get out of the way 19:35:15 don't paralyzed characters have ev 19:35:18 no 19:35:36 Patashu: what if it is invisible 19:36:26 oh right, it's petrified characters that have ev 19:36:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:30 maybe you hear the mumbling and figure out how to dodge since you are a 27 dodging grand ninja? 19:36:37 perhaps it works like lasers; it has to be trained on you for long enough to do damage 19:37:17 fr: heat stroke damage 19:37:48 heat stroke desert branch , because people said water was too annoying 19:38:03 heat stroke damage 19:38:05 sounds like earthbound 19:38:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:55 some tiny amount of ev is always kept during petrification because 19:40:16 HangedMan: ev is affected by size; you can still miss something that isn't moving 19:40:31 so then ev should be ignorable by sunray because 19:40:31 nothing should directly set ev = 0, really 19:46:35 hard to aim at a moving target 19:47:12 also, why Sunray has been changed to work differently on players vs monsters wrt invisibility? 19:48:18 it got changed to work the same 19:48:39 Patashu: ... 19:48:56 it is so consistent that light passes through you so you can't be seen, but somehow stops to hurt you 19:49:15 oh, you mean it should remove your invisibility? 19:49:44 (since b342e0b8, still works on monsters) 19:50:17 no, why? Being looked at doesn't remove invis either. 19:51:44 it was changed to be like the fedhas ability, sunlight, which reveals invisible enemies 19:51:58 which is silly but whatever 19:52:37 Fedhas' ability shouldn't follow the monster, probably 19:53:07 it seems like rain should be what reveals invisible monsters and sunlight should... I dunno, do something different 19:53:09 I guess it would work more realistic as a halo on the spot 19:53:48 instantly evaporating water when Fireball does not is strange, too 19:54:00 halos reveal invisible monsters, right? 19:54:05 fedhas is god of supernature 19:54:25 decay just spontaneously overtaking ghouls with a prayer, after all 19:55:08 if the light is so intense to heat up and boil away a mass of water, it'd instantly kill a bag of dirty water too 19:56:09 HangedMan: this one actually makes sense IMO: it's a corpse with magically stopped/slowed rot 19:57:34 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:58:15 do water elementals count as bags of dirty water 19:58:40 ...most living things count as, pff 20:00:01 humans, yeah 20:00:31 60% water IIRC 20:06:32 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:14 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:12:52 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:29:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:54 -!- evilmike_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:13 -!- evilmike has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:48 for Sunray vs rMsl: if rMsl would help there, it'd need to help against Olgreb's Toxic Radiance as well... 21:00:05 olgreb's doesn't check EV 21:00:17 the whole point is that people expect rMsl to work against things that check EV 21:06:30 Olgreb is not focused 21:06:52 melee checks EV... 21:08:30 or, Awaken Forest... I'll add EV, but there is totally no way rMsl would work against branches or roots 21:08:33 -!- tswett is now known as TenRantStew 21:09:36 Ghost Dual Wielding? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5731) by Petro 21:10:13 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:10:14 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:00 kilobyte: I meant ranged attacks 21:14:43 -!- TenRantStew is now known as tswett 21:17:40 reaching... 21:19:16 you're confusing code (ie, using struct beam) with being a missile theme-wise 21:19:57 no 21:20:01 I'm not thinking about the code at all 21:20:49 rMsl works on every dodgeable attack that isn't "whack the player with something"... except sunray 21:21:35 you seem to think that lightning bolts and bolts of draining are clearly missiles and yet sunray is clearly not 21:23:39 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:45 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:24:18 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:42 whack the player with a rock? 21:28:08 ? last I checked, rMsl works against rocks 21:28:59 you said 'that isn't "whack the player with something"' 21:29:03 ?? 21:29:26 I said that rMsl works on attacks that aren't "whack the player with something" 21:29:40 throwing a rock is not "whack the player with something" 21:29:42 it is dodgeable 21:29:48 therefore I expect rMsl to work on it 21:29:55 it does! 21:30:12 melee is dodgeable too... 21:30:15 ... 21:30:19 rMsl works on every dodgeable attack that isn't "whack the player with something"... except sunray 21:30:27 can you read what I wrote please 21:30:43 is there a compelling reason not to change rmsl so that it only affects arrows and such 21:30:59 it's not as balance-wrecking as haste, but it's certainly not fun to use 21:31:05 Eronarn: we could do that, yes 21:31:15 I'm just objecting to sunray being ultra-special 21:31:24 Eronarn: magical missiles are missiles too 21:31:52 kilobyte: ICBMs are missiles; does rmsl work against them? :P 21:31:55 elliptic: and I'm objecting to having things work differently based only on the underlying code 21:32:09 kilobyte: seriously I'm not thinking about the code here 21:32:23 could you read what I wrote please 21:32:24 you want Tornado to be not repellable but Sunray be 21:32:38 Eronarn: :p 21:32:41 what does tornado have to do with anything? 21:32:46 rMsl works on every dodgeable attack that isn't "whack the player with something"... except sunray 21:32:52 this is the current state of things 21:32:55 a magical ranged attack 21:33:01 I want sunray not to be a special exception 21:33:16 is it a missile? No. 21:33:31 is a lightning bolt a missile? No. 21:33:38 is a bolt of draining a missile? No. 21:33:44 bolt... 21:34:34 the spell's description uses the word "projectiles" 21:34:42 since when are lightning bolts projectiles 21:34:48 for both dmsl and rmsl 21:34:54 i think probably it only doesn't make sense because there aren't other EV-dodgable effects 21:35:01 like you can't use EV to scramble out of the way of a cloud or whatever 21:35:13 ionised air, similar to hot plasma 21:35:59 rename sunray to "throw photons" 21:36:14 :p 21:36:17 or bolt of draining, what is the "projectile" there 21:37:39 some magical necromantic stuff, with no RL equivalent 21:38:46 by the spell's description, it is "hurled", but there's no hard reason for it to work either way 21:39:19 I just don't think anyone expects sunray to work differently from every other ranged attack 21:40:10 strange, I wouldn't think even for a moment that light could possibly be repelled by wind 21:40:21 I wouldn't think even for a moment that a lightning bolt could either 21:42:04 or that light could be dodged 21:43:06 this one is somewhat debatable (it doesn't work in vacuum even thought it can pass gaps), but if I'd have to choose, Eronarn's suggestion to make it ignore rmsl would be ok 21:43:36 you don't dodge the light while it's on its way, you dodge the druid's aim 21:43:42 and if it is invisible? 21:43:48 just like you dodge a gun, etc 21:44:18 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:37 zigzag, etc 21:45:03 when you don't know the druid exists? 21:45:16 you don't need to see whoever is shooting at you -- and we already introduce a penalty against invis enemies 21:46:44 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:59 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:14 seriously, gameplay > realism and treating sunray differently is just unnecessary complication for rather debatable realism benefits 21:48:16 <+elliptic> I wouldn't think even for a moment that a lightning bolt could either 21:48:29 i definitely didn't realize that rmsl worked against stuff like that until well into playing crawl 21:48:34 this itself is pretty bad, no? 21:48:44 sure. So here: gameplay is not made better or worse, realism is improved. 21:49:14 kilobyte: gameplay would be improved by picking an easy-to-understand rule for what rMsl works against 21:49:29 (or actually, somewhat better since it doesn't surprise the player) 21:50:13 Getting hit by own OoD yields "blown up by" death message without specification (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5732) by sgrunt 21:50:13 making players have to memorize which magical attacks respect rMsl and which ones do not is negative gameplay 21:50:51 what about just making it not affect magical attacks (other than ones that create obviously physical stuff like stone arrow) 21:50:52 yes, there is an easy-to-understand rule, spelt outright in the spell description: projectile attacks, by slowing them 21:51:16 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:50 (with lightning indeed being an unclear case) 21:51:56 Eronarn: that sounds okay to me, yes... it would only affect stuff like stone arrow, iron shot, LCS, throw icicle, not purely magical constructs like throw flame 21:52:11 kilobyte: except that "projectile attacks" is incredibly unclear! 21:52:19 you are just shifting the question to "what is a projectile" 21:52:20 lightning bolt is definitely not a physical projectile, imo 21:52:31 what about bolt of fire? bolt of draining? 21:52:35 stuff like "bolt of fire" and "bolt of draining" is pretty unclear. it would help to define what these are 21:52:54 i have no idea what a bolt of fire is supposed to be 21:52:57 yes 21:53:00 is that flashlight throwing projectiles? 21:53:06 photons! :P 21:53:12 :p 21:53:28 in an everyman's sense 21:53:33 (seriously, how is "throwing photons" any different from "throwing unexplained necromantic something something" 21:53:34 ) 21:53:51 i suppose you could argue that sunray is traveling at the speed of light 21:53:53 or "throwing pure fire that somehow exists without anything to burn" 21:54:17 because that unexplained necromantic something can be argued to work either way 21:54:29 yes and how do players know which way it works 21:54:34 elliptic: plasma... 21:54:41 i wouldn't mind a rule that just says "bolt of foo spells are non-physical" 21:54:53 that would be an easy rule to remember 21:54:58 evilmike_: yes 21:55:23 though really I'm not sure about throw flame then 21:55:30 throw flame seems physical to me 21:55:40 I imagine it kind of like a tiny fireball 21:56:30 bolt is described as flames 21:56:39 "flames" consuming what 21:56:42 shock is a bigger question. I'd count it as a bolt spell, since it is one in all but name (it's a piercing attack) 21:56:54 yes shock and lightning bolt are clearly the same thing 21:56:57 kilobyte: descriptions would need to be clarified if this was made an actual rule 21:57:40 elliptic: a candle's flame consumes what? Once it separates from the wick it has no fuel anymore... yet it exists. 21:58:29 how are you separating a flame from the wick without it dying 21:58:34 I don't understand this 21:58:55 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:58:56 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:40 throw fire -> throw embers 21:59:46 throw frost -> throw snowball 21:59:47 done 21:59:53 the hot gas doesn't disappear immediately 22:01:24 it does die quickly (in regular cold air), but it doesn't matter if there's more flame following it or not 22:03:08 you can produce flame with a burning wick or with magic, but the result is the same: flowing hot plasma 22:10:57 nobo (L16 DEWz) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 109: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,21) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 22:15:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:51 -!- Thann has joined ##crawl-dev 22:31:37 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:15 I guess throw flame and throw frost being affected by rMsl is reasonable, yeah 22:43:19 I'd suggest just making the rule be "penetrating spells are not affected by rMsl"... it makes some sense that wind wouldn't be able to push away something that goes straight through people and can't be blocked by shields 22:43:38 (I think this is what evilmike_ was suggesting earlier) 22:43:57 yeah, it is 22:44:19 or maybe rMsl changes the direction of the beam 22:44:29 i would also make the descriptions for those spells say they are penetrating 22:46:12 petete: that sounds like something deflect missles would do (not that it is...) 22:51:08 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:52:43 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:54:39 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:21 -!- ussdefiant__ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:45 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:28:15 -!- ussdefiant___ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:28 -!- ussdefiant__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:40:24 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:34 -!- Grunt has quit [Quit: leaving]