00:10:25 -!- Grunt has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:11:07 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:06 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 01:49:18 -!- ogsus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:35 -!- ogsus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:30 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:48 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:19 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:51 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:02 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:11:03 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:11:03 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:04 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:12 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 02:15:55 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:44 -!- phyphor_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:51 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:16 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 02:51:10 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:57 Pinksniperdx's crash is great -- a pacified elephant trampled him, following after the trample onto a staircase, and, being pacified, left the level, all in the middle of a combat call 03:20:58 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:22:09 That sounds like the sort of bug that can exist for a long time without anyone ever knowing about it. 03:28:28 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:08 Nice 03:43:57 dtsund: Yeah. 04:12:27 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:19:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 04:22:41 -!- Guest33238 is now known as ChrisOelmueller 04:25:01 Nomi the Destroyer (L14 DEIE) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 110: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,21) (the Orb) (Zot) 04:25:14 oh, nice 04:25:48 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:45 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:12 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:48:31 Nomi the Devastator (L17 DEIE) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 110: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,21) (the Orb) (Zot) 04:48:38 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:40 wooo 04:48:45 another nuke 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2058-g5e9cbf8 05:01:25 Could it be made so pray and butcher move you towards the nearest corpse if you're not standing on one? 05:05:41 Patashu: pray can be used for things other than sacrificing corpses 05:05:44 eg: jiyva 05:06:11 I mean for gods that sac corpses only 05:06:17 (for other gods you want to be more careful with pray) 05:08:53 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:52 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:11:52 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:56 -!- PatashuXantheres is now known as Patashu 05:16:36 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:42 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:00 -!- barbs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:46:41 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 05:48:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:52:07 -!- rawrmage has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:52:29 -!- barbs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:53:56 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:08 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:16 .join ##crawl 06:09:37 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:43 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:04 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:23 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 06:12:23 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:40 03galehar * rc57e53905daf 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/autofight.lua: Allow autofight_no_move to throw stuff when monsters are not adjacent. 06:18:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:18:10 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:26:09 03kilobyte * r17597ac35bb9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h fineff.cc melee_attack.cc): Don't move a trampler into tramplee's space until after the given attack. 06:26:19 03kilobyte * r4612c1f0671f 10/crawl-ref/source/files.cc: When returning from the Abyss, never place the player on a trap. 06:26:30 galehar: ugh, your commit makes it ignore the autofight_throw setting 06:27:08 only when shift-tabbing 06:27:24 yeah, but that's the whole point of the setting: allowing people to toggle it 06:27:27 autothrowing with the option and tab still works 06:27:36 but you can't disable it! 06:28:30 perhaps you'd want to have it 3-way? 06:29:18 (although that kind of breaks toggling with ^T or whatever you bind it to) 06:29:29 I find it convenient to be able to choose between the throwing or not with tab and shift-tab, instead of having options and toggles 06:29:58 for the casual thrower 06:30:10 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:10 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Changing host] 06:30:10 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:19 except that shift-tab already has a completely different function 06:30:19 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:30:31 ie, fighting in a corridor 06:30:54 its function is attack without moving. Which is what throwing does. 06:32:13 or rather, "attack if something is nearby, otherwise stop" 06:33:04 now, does nearby mean adjacent or in LOS? :) 06:33:39 with your commit, it'd suddenly throw something even if you're not a thrower. Which is typically a backup weapon, panic dispersal, etc. 06:37:12 hrm, no obvious way for a 3-way toggle. I guess a different setting would be needed :( 06:37:49 maybe make it easier to clear the quiver with Q- for non-thrower shift-tab users 06:41:39 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:11 03kilobyte * rcbdd8fec6a5f 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/options_guide.txt source/dat/lua/autofight.lua): Make it possible to use shift-tab without throwing again (autofight_throw_nomove=false). 07:09:05 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:22 -!- jarpiain has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:18:26 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:03 -!- jarpiain is now known as Guest60930 07:24:50 Eronarn, you bastard! Now where am I going to find a poet to translate your desc for octorings? :p 07:25:50 kilobyte: hey, that just means opportunity for people to have some fun writing something :) 07:27:18 right, just no one helps me here, and my skills in poetry are akin to those for artistic gardening 07:27:50 could give it an interim historical quote 07:29:25 quote... does that octoring idea come from somewhere? 07:29:32 nope 07:29:39 solely a result of them having eight ring slots 07:30:18 03kilobyte * rfce397a1d570 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/pl/unrand.txt: Polish descs for unrandarts. 07:31:28 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:43 kilobyte: i am serious about getting lorcs in, btw. if there are specific issues with them, then i can work on them, but i really don't want them to bitrot again 07:33:58 they definitely aren't complete, but they're at least as playable as most races were when they were added 07:33:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:38:11 kilobyte: I think the confusion comes from the fact that the command is nammed AUTOFIGHT_NOMOVE, but the lua function is called hit_adjacent. We should decide on the function of the key and make names and behaviour consistent 07:39:10 if we say it's no_move, then a 3 way toggle for autofight_throw would work well: (yes, no_move, no) 07:43:46 how toggling it would work? I mean, currently you press one key to turn it on or off 07:45:10 -!- dave9000 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:30 defaults it to no_move, and toggle between no_move and on 07:46:34 or off and on 07:47:05 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:47:30 Would I be right in saying the weights for a lot of vaults are broken? In that, I keep seeing the same vault e.g. sewer_kobolds all the time, but there are tons of cool ones in sewer.des I've never seen after countless games? 07:47:41 Because it would be nice to have them weighted a bit more evenly 07:48:49 Eronarn: 1. Beogh, 2. (not sure if that's still current) scumming heat aura, 3. lava swimming 07:49:36 And if sewer_kobolds and sewer_minmay_treatment have a combined weight of 50, how does that stand against the other vaults? Does it work out the weightings by summing the total of all weightings added to the des file? 07:49:50 !seen evilmike 07:49:51 I last saw evilmike at Mon May 21 08:45:01 2012 UTC (1w 1d 4h 4m 50s ago) quitting with message Quit: something happened. 07:49:58 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:14 i.e., if I create a new vault in sewer.des with a weighting, it'll automatting incorporate the vault into the new total and calculate a % for it? 07:51:27 yeah 07:52:25 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:59 large rocks shattering into stones is very scummable for slingers. How about we remove it? 07:53:41 Gotcha 07:54:39 Wouldn't you agree that the weighting of 35 (vs. 10 for other vaults) for sewer_kobold is a bit high? If most groups have combined weighting of 30, sewer_kobold should be 15... 07:54:45 can you even shatter them if you're not an ogre/troll? 07:54:49 I get it way too often :( 07:55:06 kilobyte: yes. That's the problem 07:55:18 by awkwardly throwing them 07:56:04 removing mulch/shatter when awkwardly thrown is an alternative fix, slightly harder to implement 07:56:28 kilobyte: 1) isn't coded yet, but it shouldn't be a problem - just have beogh protect orcs. 2) isn't an issue now because it's only range 1. 3) could possibly use changing, but it shouldn't be a big deal either way - it's not even a boost like merfolk swimming is 07:58:05 3. can instantly set your temperature (to abuse the heat aura), and is damn inconsistent with throw flame and co hurting you 07:58:31 well, they only hurt you very much when you have a stony body 07:58:40 1. raises some fridge logic: if Beogh can protect orcs, why doesn't he do that all the time, or at least in most relevant cases? 07:58:40 and even then you have rF+ 07:59:11 for example, all of TSO's charges get rN 07:59:34 beogh already heals your orcs and stuff 08:00:11 as rewards for pious actions (ie, murdering non-orcs) 08:01:16 still, it's not much of a reach to have beogh protect orcs from the innate abilities of other orcs :P 08:02:10 also, could just block beogh until a solution is found, if necessary 08:05:35 for 3., I wonder, perhaps taking damage for uncontrollably falling into lava, and it taking some time otherwise, would be ok? 08:06:10 yeah, last time we discussed this, having it have a large speed cost to enter lava came up 08:06:22 handling falling into lava like that sounds fine 08:06:55 if proximity to lava would be enough to heat up, the speed cost wouldn't even have to be that big 08:07:16 somewhat more abusable, of course 08:07:30 well, i assume that crawl tiles are pretty big - they can fit dragons and stuff after all 08:07:48 (also ignored: background heat levels) 08:08:20 though i do like the idea of a mummy entering geh and immediately bursting into flames 08:10:00 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 08:10:00 -!- res has quit [*.net *.split] 08:10:01 -!- Vandal has quit [*.net *.split] 08:10:49 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:16:06 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:06 -!- res has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:06 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:25 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 08:18:52 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConvectionSchmonvection 08:19:03 -!- Guest60930 is now known as jarpiain 08:19:20 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:22:06 -!- dave9000 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:15 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:26:30 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:57 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:29 -!- magistern has quit [Client Quit] 08:39:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:26 kilobyte: you're a bad, bad person 08:41:33 dropping a TV Tropes link without a warning 08:46:00 -!- phyphor_ is now known as phyphor 08:46:15 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:00 phyphor: fell into my own trap, too... although the stack is down to 7 tabs currently 08:51:45 where did my scrolls of fog go? I dropped 2 scrolls of fog and 7 scrolls of teleportation to fight the fire wielding centaurs. now there are no scrolls of fog anywhere 08:56:39 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:55 Lair didn't get shorter? 09:00:58 Also, I cna't get on CDO? 09:16:41 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:33 Patashu: scrolls on the ground can get burnt 09:29:44 how come no message is printed 09:39:41 galehar, kilobyte: whats the release plan btw? an augurst release (for the tourney) would mean feature freeze sometime soon, right? 09:40:01 i saw Eronarn asking about it recently, and the wiki page still has the 0.10 dates 09:42:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-2063-gfce397a (33) 09:47:20 Patashu: there is: "you see a puff of smoke" 09:47:39 shouldn't it be red? since it's consumable loss 10:00:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:51 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:08:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:22 alefury: if tourney is in august, release should be early july 10:12:12 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:13:50 it might be good to just set some arbitrary date for feature freeze in june then 10:14:49 also, early july seems early. certainly good for an august tourney, but earlier than for the last two tourneys 10:15:19 0.9 release was pretty rocky, though. 10:15:51 yeah it was 10:16:18 also seems optimistic. ranged overhaul should be properly finished for 0.11, or postponed. 10:16:35 kilobyte: ^^ ? 10:16:57 any other in progress stuff other than translations? 10:17:21 it would also be good to get some branches actually shortened 10:17:34 elliptic: yes 10:17:38 that too, yes. and stalker/distill/evap removal if thats going to happen. 10:18:07 last time I said let's do it, kilobyte suggested we tweak monster generation formulae first, but it didnt happen 10:18:31 so I say let's do it! -3 vaults, -2 crypt 10:18:33 easy: shorten now, deal with the fallout if there is any :) 10:18:57 an we pleeeease shorten Lair? 10:19:05 imo cut off the top, not the bottom 10:19:22 its easy now that absdepth can be defined, right? 10:19:45 why? Lair is pretty good 10:20:14 lair also has some pretty noticeable progression, which is cool. 10:20:50 alefury: it's easy to cut off the top and make V:1 be like the current V:4, yes... not sure it is that great to have staircases from D:14 to V:4 though 10:21:14 hm 10:21:23 elliptic: V:8 should stay as it is either way imo 10:21:26 yes 10:21:30 I think lair:2-4 are pretty similar 10:21:53 ghallberg: so is D:8-10 10:22:07 3 levels just don't mean a lot of progression 10:22:11 hm, quaff-id'd a !oMut 10:22:13 I'd tend to say we should make the five levels of V be like the current V:1/3/5/7/8 10:22:14 I guess not. 10:22:26 got flame breath, sharp toenails, and deteriorating body :p 10:22:31 could've been worse, I guess 10:22:38 Chousuke: wrong channel 10:22:46 oh, right. 10:22:48 duh 10:23:03 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:23:40 elliptic: any idea how to achieve this? 10:25:16 I'm not familiar enough with the code to know what the least hacky way to achieve this would be, no... maybe something like give each branch a scaling number which is how many levels each downstairs is worth for monster generation / absdepth? 10:26:29 (so that number would be 2 for V and 1 for most other places... could also use 2 for Elf or Crypt if we wanted I guess) 10:27:03 would definitely be good for elf 10:27:35 introducing strong elves before the ending vault would definitely be good, and also make the place less boring 10:27:36 (also for lair subbranches maybe if we ever shorten them) 10:27:51 iirc the idea was to not shorten them 10:28:15 so the three typical three-rune branches all are length 5 10:29:04 generally just moving elf deeper than the old average depth would be nice imo 10:29:22 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:43 elf:$ is often quite hard, so people go there (if they do) when the rest of elf is boring because theyre too strong 10:29:59 alefury: earlier elf is pretty hard too 10:30:20 the sort of change I'm talking about would have the opposite effect of what you want anyway, I think 10:30:59 what? those little knight sissies, summoners and conjurers are pretty much the worst that can spawn, and theyre all easy by the time people do elf. 10:31:05 you can get sorcerers on elf:1 10:31:14 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:17 you can, but you generally don't 10:31:18 and knights are rather dangerous 10:31:41 i don't think knights in elf ever were a danger to me 10:31:45 and magi can banish or paralyze you 10:32:03 right, if youre stupid enough to go through elf without MR 10:32:16 they have like 5 HD 10:32:50 unknown monster: "deep elf wizard" 10:32:50 %??deep elf wizard 10:32:54 deep elf mage (06e) | Spd: 10 | Int: high | HD: 4 | HP: 12-24 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(32) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 100 | Sp: b.venom (3d9), mystic blast (3d10), invisibility, confuse, slow, teleport self / magic dart (3d4), paralyse, haste, b.lightning (3d12), confuse, teleport self / paralyse, throw flame (3d6), invisibility, teleport other, fireball (3d11) / petrify, crystal spear (3d20), blink, b.fire (3d12), b.cold (3d12), minor healing / stone arrow (3d9), sting (d7), blink, b.lightning (3d12), banishment, minor healing. 10:32:54 %??deep elf mage 10:32:55 !lg * cv=0.10 place=elf s=ckiller 10:32:56 311 games for * (cv=0.10 place=elf): 44x a deep elf annihilator, 31x a deep elf master archer, 25x a deep elf knight, 24x a deep elf sorcerer, 21x a deep elf blademaster, 12x a sun demon, 11x Aizul, 10x a deep elf high priest, 9x a deep elf conjurer, 8x Nikola, 7x a deep elf fighter, 6x a sixfirhy, 6x a smoke demon, 6x a deep elf mage, 5x an Ice Fiend, 5x quitting, 4x Snorg, 4x a deep elf death ma... 10:33:11 knights are the third-highest killer in elf 10:33:32 !lg * cv=0.10 place=elf s=place 10:33:33 they are also about 10 times more common than the other top killers 10:33:33 311 games for * (cv=0.10 place=elf): 186x Elf:5, 45x Elf:1, 29x Elf:4, 27x Elf:2, 24x Elf:3 10:33:56 and over 40% of deaths in elf are before elf:$ 10:34:31 maybe due to stupid people risking their life for some loot before its reasonable to do so? 10:35:00 certainly elf:$ is harder, but I don't think we need to make early elf harder... people find a staircase to elf relatively early in the game, it shouldn't be ridiculous for them to consider going in 10:35:11 hm, right 10:35:22 (and it would be if elf:1 sorcerers, master archers, etc were common) 10:35:27 so elf:1 not being very hard is reasonable 10:35:51 but people would (from knights) that its much harder than orc, and gtfo if theyre smart 10:35:57 so elf:2-3 can be hard 10:36:20 !lg * cv=0.10 place=vault s=place 10:36:21 464 games for * (cv=0.10 place=vault): 118x Vault:8, 56x Vault:2, 52x Vault:7, 51x Vault:1, 50x Vault:5, 48x Vault:4, 46x Vault:6, 43x Vault:3 10:36:30 I don't know exactly what effects portal_branches had on elf difficulty, and it could well use some improvement... what I was suggesting was making the three levels be like the old elf:1/3/5, or even the old elf:2/4/5 10:36:41 people dying before X:$ is perfectly reasonable 10:37:12 id prefer something like 1/4/6 i think 10:37:17 6? 10:37:26 elf:6 hasn't existed for a long time :P 10:37:29 so? 10:37:46 its total bullshit that all the interesting monsters are only in the ending vault 10:38:01 I've already told you that sorcerers can generate on elf:1 10:38:10 so could you stop saying false things please 10:38:31 a single sorcerer is a reasonable threat 10:38:47 they don't spawn with bands, right? 10:39:30 there are only two monsters that are "only in the ending vault": master archers and blademasters 10:39:39 to me, elf seems to be endless knight bands and magi, with some conjurors and summoners mixed in, and very very rare powerful elves 10:39:43 what about rewriting mon-pick.cc from rarity/depth to rarity/range? 10:40:09 alefury: that's why it was shortened to three levels... 10:40:18 because it is an entire branch full of elves 10:40:19 and, for the love of Yog-Sothoth, written as a table rather than two switches 10:40:52 kilobyte: would definitely be nice to rewrite it to a more sane system, yeah 10:41:11 having high rarity/narrow range would allow meaningful progression 10:41:32 such a table can be generated based on current data, too 10:41:53 would require splitting D and Vaults, but that's an upside not downside 10:41:57 kilobyte: I assume you'd also weight near the center of the range higher? 10:42:25 no idea what would be best: a yet another argument, or always a parabola 10:43:00 I guess we have someone who knows conical sections better than me :) 10:43:38 kilobyte: support for duplicates would also be nice. A monster could be rare in one range, and frequent in another (possibly overlapping) range. 10:43:39 03galehar * r3fa1025416ad 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Mulch large rocks like normal ammo instead of shattering them into stones. 10:43:59 kilobyte: isnt D and vaults already split? 10:44:13 or was that the vestibule? 10:44:28 also: having percentage depths would allow easily changing branch sizes, but the readability cost is probably not worth it 10:44:37 vestibule uses a completely different monster set nowadays 10:45:09 alefury: current code requires a split, but the underlying function calls D's selection with a shift 10:45:18 ah 10:45:40 kilobyte: thoughts about what I was suggesting above with treating downstairs in some branches as twice as long for purposes of monster/item generation? 10:46:35 to me it sounds like a good way to keep shortened branches interesting while also providing a gentle introduction 10:47:20 elliptic: scaling monsters via a range would make that unnecessary (and impossible) 10:47:51 kilobyte: it wouldn't be necessary for monsters, but still for item generation... 10:47:51 for items, an additional level hardly matters, I guess 10:47:59 I agree it isn't very important for items 10:48:17 could multiply it but not sure if that does something real 10:48:49 I was mainly suggesting it as a way of making shortened V more sane for now, but maybe it is better to just fix the monster generation code 10:49:10 we could just increase absdepth 10:49:27 also, unscaling traps is still on my todo list :( 10:49:31 when branches are shortened, items are cut. cutting the bad items would be a bit more gentle than cutting the good ones. 10:50:19 galehar: what with mimics? Currently vanilla/ravenous ones don't differ at all, except for that hidden absdepth formula 10:50:52 heck, we could almost get rid of absdepth by 0.11, and completely by 0.12 10:52:07 your plan for monster generation seems ambitions for 0.11 10:52:35 assuming feature freeze some time in june 10:53:25 s/ambitions/ambitious 10:53:47 kilobyte: ok, I'll take care of mimics soon 10:53:59 current mimics are really strong 10:54:08 alefury: turning mon-pick.cc into a table is a matter of a single script 10:54:48 alefury is right though. We need to decide on what to finish and start working toward a release 10:55:11 kilobyte: okay. i assumed you wanted to actually use the new possibilities. 10:55:20 I'll tweak (or maybe rewrite) constriction and adjust mimics 10:56:00 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:10 alefury: using a range for the current parabola can be hacked in easily, saner code would of course require more time 10:56:51 actually, instead of blabbing (hi! :p), lemme give it a try 10:56:53 adjusting monster generation code to allow shortening V and C while keeping an interesting progression seems like high priority to me 10:57:25 one thing to consider: the current parabola works good on the left end, but not on the right end. weaker than usual monsters are almost never interesting. 10:57:38 but changes to that should probably be left for 0.12 10:58:30 alefury: there's a big problem: the generation for D:1-8 or so is very fragile, any change makes big changes 10:58:49 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:58:54 on elf: the lower level elves are interesting, but they are too weak and people do it too late, therefor we should make those monsters more significant 10:59:31 buffing DE soldiers/fighters could be good IMO 10:59:40 i think the occasional annihilator would be more interesting 10:59:44 :) 10:59:46 a DE soldier is essentially an orc wizard, a fighter is only a bit better 10:59:51 alefury: you already get that 11:00:08 yeah, about once per elf there is some strong elf on elf:1-2 11:00:48 there are about 8 of those. you get to see one. 11:01:36 Orc and Elf are newbie traps, too 11:01:49 they are some of the most interesting monsters in the game, putting them all in a bunch behind a chokepoint is a huge waste. 11:02:02 alefury: so you don't think making conjurers only a small step down from an annihilator and the same for mages/summoners is more interesting than keeping them all insignificant and devaluing the high level elves by making them more common? 11:02:06 unspoiled players assume the game presents branches in an ascending order 11:02:24 early orc is stupid, i think everyone knows that. 11:03:07 I still don't kow why Orc comes before Lair 11:03:19 Other than tradition 11:03:21 clouded_: i don't think making them about 3-5 times more common is devaluing them. Some improvements to other elves would be good, but i think conjurors and summoners are actually fine. 11:03:37 phyphor: people keep naming Orc entry vaults as the reason 11:03:53 phyphor: which can be avoided by splitting them 11:04:02 early orc entry vaults are frequently ridiculously ood 11:04:09 heck, the dummy vault balancer should be taken out and shot 11:04:20 a level without a vault is boring 11:04:23 dpeg says orc is early to push lair later, so you have to work to get it 11:04:33 that doesnt make sense 11:04:38 especially early game should use a bigger variety 11:04:46 keep lair where it is, and cut off the top half of the orc entry depth 11:04:48 As soon as you know you skiop Orc to go to Lair 11:05:15 that way it can still generate earlier, but its not quite as silly 11:05:23 also, dipping in orc can be useful sometimes. To get weapon, armour, gold or piety 11:05:28 yeah 11:05:31 kilobyte: i agree with the dummy balancer btw 11:05:38 removing it, that is 11:06:09 there are enough entry vaults for it to not be needed, and if a request was put on the mantis there would quickly be more if needed. 11:07:28 also, well made entry vaults are some of the best use for vaults imo, they provide an introduction to the new branch and provide monster variety on the level they spawn on. Using a dummy is a waste. 11:11:07 alefury: I mean the balancer for _all_ vaults, not just branch entrances 11:11:33 remove it and see what happens :) 11:11:41 sounds like a good idea 11:12:07 it seems like a weird way to handle vault generation probability anyway 11:12:13 one problem: there'd be exactly one non-allow_dup vault per level 11:12:24 er, non-extra 11:12:26 if you want fewer vaults, just tell the dungeon builder to place fewer vaults 11:12:40 ah 11:13:29 i dont know if thats even a bad thing 11:13:42 I wonder if it would be interesting to have a guaranteed gnoll castle where the Orc entrance is now, and then the Orc entrance where Hive used to be 11:13:50 could have it try to place multiples 11:14:09 phyphor: guaranteed castle sounds bad. its a good vault, but shouldnt be guaranteed imo. 11:14:11 gnoll castle is a bad vault IMO 11:14:28 the gnoll version is pretty bad, the others are great. 11:14:29 I was thinking something that gave the armour/weapons 11:14:34 phyphor: not gnoll castle in particular, but _a_ vault from a set 11:14:35 and wouldn't invade the rest of the map 11:14:44 but not a branch 11:14:55 and certainly not the dragon vault 11:14:56 phyphor: you mean a portal vault? 11:14:58 no 11:15:02 yes you do 11:15:04 do I? 11:15:09 oh 11:15:10 hrm 11:15:13 maybe Bailey 11:15:18 but that seems a bit off 11:15:20 gnoll castle: sometimes means you have to abandon half a level, sometimes gives you four stars of piety 11:15:31 elliptic: right, but you can avoid it and come back 11:15:41 and should be more obviously "dangerous" than orcish mines 11:15:49 elliptic: yeah, gnoll castle is a bit early for being so big. 11:15:52 and brings the idea of vaults in 11:16:02 But maybe a new set of vaults would be good 11:16:54 have one of them replacing the current orcish mines (to give the chance of armour/weapons, without being newbie unfriendly) and move Orc ot where Hive used to be (so it fits later on and breaks up the D run to Vaults) 11:17:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:17:58 orc as late as hive was (3 levels deeper than Lair) seems bad... IMO orc and lair could just both be D:8-13 11:18:49 the balancing of those vaults wouldn't be easy 11:18:55 elliptic: what about the exp gap around 20 exp and introducing some new kind of orc? could bump most orcs in the mines up to proper orcs and put it a bit deeper. That would also help with the frankly ridiculous difficulty spikes. 11:19:06 and making them not super repetitive 11:19:37 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:52 alefury: I don't understand what you just asked 11:21:09 elliptic: a while ago there was some discussion about there being few monsters that give something like 20 exp, and someone proposed making orcs harder to fill that gap. You said early orc bands are too cool to lose. I (I think) proposed introducing a new orc type between orc and warrior. 11:21:45 orc brute? 11:21:50 orc wizards are 35 XP 11:22:01 gnolls are 14 XP 11:22:46 iirc the main point was that there was little stuff in the 10-100 range 11:23:20 I don't see a problem there 11:23:30 Is Orc shport because it's bnoring, because it's not a major (runic) branch or it appears very soon or? 11:24:23 worker ant is 34 XP, iguana is 37 XP, hound is 43 XP, orc priest is 42 XP, etc 11:24:25 elliptic: kilobyte seemed to see one. In early D there's lots of boring monsters with a few really strong ones in between. The cockroach native depth was one number that kilobyte cited iirc. 11:25:11 it's true that there are lots of boring monsters, yes... I don't understand what any perceived "XP gap" has to do with this 11:25:34 jackals and geckos are native for D:6 11:26:00 kilobyte: it would be good to adjust that stuff when monster gen switches to a saner system, yeah 11:26:02 elliptic: the problem is the popcorn:non-popcorn ratio in that range 11:26:40 the chart I keep mentioning: http://angband.pl/tmp/monster-tiers-by-xl.png 11:28:08 over 80% monsters in the "trivial" tier 11:28:17 bands probably contribute a lot of the popcorn in general 11:28:37 but thats actually the interesting kind of popcorn 11:30:38 (this chart comes not from theoretical data but from that "Killed monsters: 67 trivial, 44 easy, 28 tough, 1 nasty; 60 corpses" spam in real CDO games) 11:32:30 kilobyte: certainly stuff like cockroaches shouldn't continue to generate much beyond D:2, yes 11:34:00 kilobyte: an easy way to better adjust that stuff would be allowing negative dungeon levels in monster ranges. cockroach: D:-3 to D:5 11:34:29 moving the left part of the parabola out of the dungeon, basically 11:35:07 that would at least not require an adjustable distribution 11:35:08 and it makes sense too, cockroaches would be in the town level. 11:38:02 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20120421074340]] 11:45:41 why is there a vault that places rune mimics in early D? i thought the whole point was for them not to be immediately obvious at first glance :/ 11:46:11 MarvinPA: also an orb mimic in one vault :( 11:48:25 this one isn't even an entry vault though 11:48:32 these are unreachable, though 11:48:42 just a big room with a totally obvious mimic in the middle 11:48:44 (or should be, at least) 11:49:11 wait, orb mimic? 11:49:11 kilobyte: then what's the point? 11:49:46 that's the only tier 4 mimic, it can eat Zot:5 characters alive :p 11:50:07 kilobyte: nicolae_entry_your_instructions 11:50:51 the vault MarvinPA is talking about is nicolae_well_that_was_easy 11:51:32 and it might actually have a secret door? I don't understand the vault syntax there 11:51:36 fr hell cockroach 11:51:46 the entry one is at least just supposed to be flavour, not that i'm particularly keen on that one either 11:52:05 anyway I see no reason for either of those vaults to exist, they will just confuse some players 11:53:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:05 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:39 you mean like the long corridoor of closed off monsters? 12:12:19 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:02 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:15:30 interesting that we have a bunch of monsters with minimal depth of D:30. Except, the OOD cap is D:29. 12:44:16 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:07 -!- ChrisOelmueller has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:46:45 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:36 -!- Guest43275 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:46 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:09 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:08 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:03:18 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 13:11:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:37 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 13:42:06 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:34 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:56:07 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:09 do nagas know how to speak? 13:57:36 i have a vault with a renamed naga, and i put some speech for it in monspeak.txt but it's not using it 14:00:41 hm, if i make a naga talk in wizmode they don't say anything :( 14:03:01 does it do something like hiss angrily? 14:03:24 if i tell it talk 10 or 20 times, nothing at all comes up and then ==Done== 14:03:46 do they not count as sufficiently humanoid to even use generic humanoid speech 14:10:08 nagas are not humanoid 14:10:17 nuts 14:13:12 they have M_SPEAK so adding speech for them works (I just tested) 14:13:36 hrm, so they just don't have any speech by default? 14:14:11 i think they shout at you when you they come into view 14:16:33 -!- diazepan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:42 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:08 so what could be the reason my renamed naga isn't using the speech i wrote for it, do i have to put underscores instead of spaces in monspeak.txt 14:25:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:23 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:06 -!- XnMojo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:21 -!- XnMojo has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:57 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:25 nicolae, out of curiosity, what's the talky naga for? 14:32:44 a vault i am making 14:32:56 -!- diazepan has quit [Quit: diazepan] 14:33:02 er, i guess that was obvious 14:33:03 well, yes 14:34:09 a deranged naga who shouts crazy things at you, basically 14:34:26 and this is different from yiuf because 14:34:41 or the experiments in fleshwizlab 14:36:22 more of a mad scientist thing, it's a snake pit vault 14:36:32 alright, alright 14:36:48 monspeak.txt seems to do it both ways 14:36:49 slowly going insane because no evilmike for a week and fifteen vaults being worked on at once 14:36:56 with underscores and spaces 14:36:59 hrm 14:37:22 i'd just try things until it works 14:38:01 oh, i see why it uses underscores 14:38:10 underscores are used for internally referenced rules 14:38:49 but theoretically, since a naga has M_SPEAK, it should be able to use speech if i give it lines to say 14:38:51 ? 14:39:19 if you've done it right 14:39:32 ah, so the problem is on my end 14:39:35 i.e. me 14:39:45 this is good because i don't have to file a bug report if i'm the fuckup 14:39:51 occam's razor :) 14:39:59 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:10 bug report, oh right 14:40:33 see Ijyb's entries in monspeak.txt for a good example of how to do things 14:40:54 yeah 14:40:57 "confused Ijyb" and "Ijyb" are the rules that the game will match 14:41:19 i did some speech for Harold a while back as part of the text improvement thing, i haven't submitted it yet though, because Lazy 14:41:45 harold killed jozef permanently, he needs lines about that 14:41:55 i can do that 14:42:03 the propaganda that joseph killed jozef is lies, how would he even do that 14:43:10 mmm, looking up transparent reminds me that we still need transparent doors 14:45:06 -!- barbs has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:28 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:17 "TAGS: transparent" presumes glass, trees can be passed through (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5708) by Claws 15:00:16 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:01:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:29 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:48 woo hah. i don't know what i did different this time but my naga says what i told it to 15:08:19 hm, either i screwed up something real bad or the wizmode "make a monster talk" command is screwy, because now i can't even make ijyb and yiuf talk 15:09:29 well, I just asked dispater to speak 10 times and I got "Dispater proclaims, "For the glory of Makhleb!" x8", so 15:09:36 I wouldn't trust it much 15:18:45 hrm, i let ijyb pound on me for a couple hundred turns but he still doesn't say anything 15:19:00 presumably you did that screwing things up then 15:20:49 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:54 even when i put the monspeak.txt back to where it was, ijyb still doesn't talk, hrm 15:22:57 starting a new game fixed it though 15:25:17 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 15:33:53 -!- Nomi has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:16 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:54:43 query: should it be KMASK: 09a = no_trap_gen [enter] SUBVAULT: a : hm_sb_wall_set_up or the other way around to set the resultant subvault space with no_trap_gen? 16:04:08 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:31 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:50 when xom gives you a pot of xp effect, it says at the top of the skill screen "You have quaffed a potion of experience. Select the skills to train." 16:36:54 is this something I should report? 16:38:38 heh. yeah, sounds like a text bug 16:38:47 -!- barbs has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:54 it's probably hard-coded 16:39:01 ok 16:41:55 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:09 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:16 -!- Blade is now known as Blade- 16:51:45 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:58 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:04 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 17:08:59 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:55 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:44 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:01:38 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:17 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:30:32 -!- Wensley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:36 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:31:45 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:59 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:19 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:10 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:36:19 -!- PatashuXantheres is now known as Patashu 18:42:12 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:47:29 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:00 -!- Danei is now known as LiteralRickshaw 19:00:19 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:09 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:10:18 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:04 Nomi the Devastator (L19 DEIE) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 110: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,48) (the Orb) (Zot) 19:33:42 elliptic, galehar: how does http://sprunge.us/XALO look to you? 19:33:54 I wonder how to make it readable 19:34:17 it's: rarity, mindepth, maxdepth, mons 19:34:22 vampire in volcano 19:34:39 can't it at least be a flaming corpse 19:38:13 HangedMan: I missed that one. Volcano included everything with a red glyph :/ 19:38:38 I removed worst offenders, leaving some because there was too little left 19:39:00 well, yes, at least there are no redbacks 19:39:50 there were... 19:40:16 as in this set has no 19:41:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:53 bc46fe36 19:43:46 toenail golems... 19:44:37 those are only really supportable because of the chance to die to one 19:46:05 keratin reacts interestingly to fire 19:47:11 what's it do 19:47:48 incredibly irritant smoke 19:47:55 wonderful 19:48:09 there's a very nasty thing to do to a smoker: put a fingernail into a cigarette. I heard there is no way not to puke if one takes a drag. 19:49:12 so should smoke demons spawn when one sticky flames a toenail golem 19:50:48 or mephitic cloud at least 19:54:48 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:20 -!- ark____ has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:48 03kilobyte * rcb1410003310 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Remove vampires from Volcanoes. 20:01:58 03kilobyte * r3d6746d95e88 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Remove a pointless comment about includes, sort them. 20:01:59 03kilobyte * ra7c9ee28a475 10/crawl-ref/source/ (branch-data.h mon-pick.cc mon-pick.h): There is no "standard" monster set anymore, rename it to "dungeon". 20:17:30 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:18:08 -!- varmin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 20:20:14 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:41 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:22:26 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:02 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:49 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:20 evilmike! you are present again after a week and a day! 21:23:56 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:34 is there any particular rhyme or reason to which abyss rune vaults have allow_dup? 21:24:36 I was still keeping up with stuff, I just haven't been able to be on irc 21:24:48 thus "present" 21:25:21 there's no strong reason for them having allow_dup 21:26:20 rather purposefully silly game that would find 15 abyssal rune vaults and not take any of them, anyway 21:27:15 that's more or less the reason. You could, in theory, "run out" of abyss rune vaults. In practice this doesn't happen 21:27:19 or wouldn't, I should say 21:32:52 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: showstopper] 21:49:51 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:41 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:41 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:22 kilobyte: definitely much more readable than the current code and should make it easier to tweak distributions to be more sensible if we can decide on a single probability distribution to use (parabola is strange IMO) 22:41:20 kilobyte: also, I never realized that orb of fire distribution is so weird... more common on zot:1 than on zot:4, wtf? 22:43:00 kilobyte: my only suggestion for making it more readable is to put weight after min/maxdepth and sort by mindepth 22:43:08 That would explain why there was one right near the entry portal in my just-concluded game. 22:43:27 <_< 22:47:09 oh, this is something I meant to bring up a while ago: it might be good if certain monsters could have a more even distribution throughout the dungeon... for example, giant eyeballs are pretty much just early D, but they work well in any part of the dungeon 22:47:50 I believe they spawn less often now in lower D now, since there used to be code that made 1/3 of monsters lower level 22:49:01 On the topic of mon-pick, might I suggest eliminating that 2d100 roll for weighting? It really does nothing but make the weights harder to mentally parse. 22:49:25 (You'd have to make a pass through mon-pick.cc to reweight stuff, but that could probably be automated with a script 22:49:26 ) 22:53:21 dtsund: what 2d100 roll? 22:54:26 oh, huh 22:55:17 so the weights aren't even parabolic 22:56:26 Perhaps you should make them... 22:56:28 * dtsund shades 22:56:34 ...hyperbolic. 22:57:11 they are (R + 1 - d^2)*(R + 2 - d^2)/2 or something like that, where R is the base rarity and d is the distance from the base depth 22:57:29 how ridiculous 22:58:00 oh, not that exactly because random2avg 22:58:07 but something close to what I just wrote 22:58:42 (like, replace R with 2*R, and this is only right if R <= 50) 22:59:01 Yeah, and I think even that's a bit off, but a decent first-order approximation 23:00:40 I like how there is still a (tiny) chance of the monster generating even when "chance = 0" 23:01:39 Even 1 is ridiculously small, but it's actually used in one case IIRC 23:02:16 (Trapdoor spiders in Tomb) 23:02:31 well chance = R - d^2 means that stuff like D:3 orc priests have chance=0 unless I'm confused 23:03:06 (they have R=25, base depth 8) 23:04:03 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:21 Unless the game makes an out of depth roll 23:04:27 right 23:04:40 Which... happens at least 10%-ish of the time 23:04:44 you can also get orc priests as part of orc bands 23:05:53 yeah, it agrees with my experience that D:3 orc priests are almost always part of bands 23:06:25 since MONS_ORC has chance = 99 - 25 = 74 there 23:07:02 it looks like all orc priests either have bands, or are in bands 23:07:14 but the size is only 2 + random2(3) 23:07:45 oh, orc priests themselves come with bands, right 23:08:16 anyway orc priest on D:3 was a bad example of chance=0 23:09:26 Spiny worm on Lair:5 might be a better example. 23:13:23 yeah... effective spiny worm weight on Lair:5 is 3 (I think I had the right formula above if you replace R with 2*R+1?), weight on Lair:6 is 78, weight on Lair:7 is 171, weight on Lair:8 is 210 23:14:14 Oh, is this going by a linear scale now? 23:15:04 !tell kilobyte your ranges should probably only be +- 5, since monster generation is limited by that unless it fails 1000 times or is OOD currently 23:15:05 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:15:30 !tell kilobyte for instance, you have lots of stuff with mindepth 1 that doesn't normally spawn on D:1, like hounds and worker ants 23:15:31 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:15:52 * dtsund suspects he's more familiar with this particular part of the code than it deserves 23:16:39 dtsund: yeah... I mean that the chance of a spiny worm spawning on Lair:6 should be about 78/3 = 26 times greater than it spawning on Lair:5, at least if the sum of all the weights were constant (which isn't true of course) 23:16:43 which is pretty silly 23:16:57 (not counting OOD fuzz and such, of course) 23:17:48 Adapting mgen for a shorter dungeon wasn't particularly fun. 23:18:22 !tell kilobyte also, dtsund pointed out that there is a 2d100 when comparing with the "chance", which means that the distribution isn't even parabolic currently... it is totally ridiculous 23:18:22 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:19:01 !tell kilobyte oh, and you should probably read through for messages that I pinged you with about this before I started using !tell... 23:19:02 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:21:04 It's like a parabola attached to another parabola wrapped in an enigma. 23:21:12 Shrouded in mystery. 23:26:23 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:30:07 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:32:53 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:35:20 -!- Ganrao| has joined ##crawl-dev 23:36:37 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:28 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 23:49:18 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:54:53 -!- Grunt has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:59 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]