00:01:01 -!- ens has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:59 rast: they're quite good weapons in certain circumstances 00:06:52 if you have a lot of room, and particularly if you're fighting multiple enemies, you have a lot of versatility with what you can do with it 00:16:40 if you're fast polearms are great 00:17:25 oh are we talking irl or in crawl 00:17:28 -!- Thann has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:59 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:35 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:30:59 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:18 my first experience with python is setting up webtiles 00:31:27 and let me say, it is dire. 00:31:56 * ens vents hours of frustration. 00:32:33 if someone has a VM image of a working install, i would really appreciate if i could get a copy. 00:54:01 Does SS still save temporary resistances (from !resistance, say) in player ghost files? 00:57:07 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:56 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:33:38 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:49:14 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 01:50:51 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 01:56:30 -!- hej has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:35 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:12:06 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:43 -!- hej is now known as magistern 02:21:28 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:35 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:38 looks like something has changed that's causing the dis divider vaults that place deep water so that the water isn't being placed 02:52:11 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:48 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:03:48 -!- monqy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:02 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:33:11 is there a Gretell manual somewhere? 03:37:29 besides stray bits in learndb, not really 03:37:29 once can always RTFS, but sadly, that's it 04:28:12 galehar, MarvinPA, others: any opinions on showing ranged weapons held by monsters vs storing a flag of them being seen to have a ranged attack? 04:36:20 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:36:48 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1910-ge3b5d29 05:08:42 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:51 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:22:24 should constriction still occur when the constrictor is petrified 05:40:04 headzone: I made it so constriction is stopped by paralysis (you lose control over your muscles, loosening them) but not by petrification (you were already in position, and now there is a tight loop of stone around the victim) 05:40:15 no one complained, so I guess that's ok 05:59:44 kilobyte: I prefer a "seen ranged" flag 06:00:15 also, I think I fixed the ranged behind water leak 06:02:20 well, it does leak Pan Lord spells, but not ranged weapons 06:02:27 because of mons_itemuse(mon) >= MONUSE_STARTING_EQUIPMENT 06:02:58 so, if the monster is able to use a ranged weapon or a wand, we assume it has one to be safe 06:03:48 what's the purpose of exposing has_ranged_attack to clua btw? 06:09:12 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:36 autorobin improvement 06:15:56 kilobyte: ok. i was thinking that constriction requires a constant application of force to do damage, and when the constrictor is petrified it can't squeeze anymore 06:18:44 so it would be more like being inescapably held. but that's probably a pain to implement 06:19:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:35 hey guys, extra minor bug: Elephants have a completely blank extended description 06:21:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:18 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:00 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:18 there's 2 quotes, so I'd say it doesn't fit in your window 06:33:30 I guess we should use a scroller 06:34:47 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:35:44 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:31 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:00 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:00 galehar: big +1 to a scroller, especially since it would solve descriptions themselves being too long on tinyterms 06:38:27 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:31 galehar: we'd be able to have everything on one scrollable page, instead of that misleading "extended description" 06:39:09 for most descriptions and quotes, or on non-tunnel vision terminals, they'd fit on one page without scrolling 06:40:01 also, there's bad inconsistency: monster descriptions have quotes on a separate page ("!"), item descs have them in the middle 06:40:34 I'd move the quote to the bottom for items, it's less relevant than actual information mentioned there 06:42:59 for the record, Elephant description is too big for normalterm 06:43:50 kilobyte: ok, I'll look into it 06:45:58 kilobyte: is there a reason that some card name have an article and others don't? 06:49:59 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:09 some would sound really odd with an article 07:00:58 FR: Slower movement when in melee 07:01:07 Instead of having everything be fast... 07:07:57 ghallberg: we don't need more reasons to stay at range 07:08:03 I guess not... 07:08:34 It would be nice if we could discourage pillardancing everything though. 07:09:24 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:42 it really isn't that common to pillar dance 07:12:53 I'm just a scrub :) 07:13:32 pillar dancing and door dancing are great, never take them out 07:13:34 they are rougelike staples 07:16:43 fix: pillar mimic 07:17:37 wall mimic 07:17:50 monsters that spawn traps around them, so if you run from them for too long you'll get caught in their net trap and killed 07:19:16 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:23:27 fr: inverse mimics 07:23:46 This orb of fire is a statue! 07:37:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:37 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:18 translating the desc for Simulacrum: why exactly casting it on a jerky fails to create an ox, or some unidentified creature from a meat ration? 07:50:36 the meat has to be fresh i think? 07:50:48 iirc it doesn't work on rotten chunks at least 07:50:57 judging from allegations against supermarkets, cat or dog, or per "The Wing or the Thigh", oil 07:51:03 it does, lemme check 07:51:16 ah yeah, it does 07:52:55 permafood is permanent 07:53:06 so it has been preserved somehow 07:53:19 simulacrum is a D&Dism 07:53:44 maybe simulacrum fails if there are any non-animal components? 07:53:51 Material Component 07:53:52 The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, or the like) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created. 07:54:37 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:54:44 you mean, ham used to have 60% meat several tens of years ago, has around 14% these days, I've heard of as low as 6% 07:54:50 I'm waiting for kosher ham. 07:55:21 i dont really think its worth going into 07:55:58 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:13 i dont think anyone even uses simulacrum 07:56:20 monsters do :) 07:56:55 doesn't simulacrum let you make one monster per chunk? 07:56:57 that is very powerful, if so 07:57:02 its a cool spell, but the availability of normal summons and the fiddly interface make it pretty meh 07:57:15 it's quite good if you have a dragon corpse or something 07:57:32 im not saying its weak, but id just rather use haunt or something 07:57:50 summon ugly things, whatever 07:58:04 well it isn't a summoner spell 07:58:10 who remembers summon ugly things back before they were buffed 07:58:14 wasn't that hilarious 07:59:20 why do demons fail to drop corpses, again? 08:00:10 because they are demons 08:01:01 kilobyte: have you played doom 3? 08:02:47 i dont know how crawl demons work, but in some fiction (and D&D i think) demons dont die when you kill them, they just lose their physical manifestation on our plane of existence. 08:03:23 so all demons are pretty much summoned, just not by someone else but they are summoned into our world by their own will 08:03:46 i just assumed it works the same way in crawl 08:04:06 which makes it weird that hellhouds and crawlers drop corpses 08:04:29 not all demons have to be the same 08:04:43 no, but those two don't stand out as particularly different 08:04:48 maybe some work by twisting a dog or worm into a demonic form they possess 08:05:04 its kind of weird though, yeah 08:05:15 i think it'd be good if demons dropped corpses but if they mostly weren't useful for necromancy or eating 08:05:26 demonic crawlers are in spider, so i dont think of them as real proper demons anymore 08:05:43 just the 12345s 08:06:05 hmm, maybe a good high level undead making spell would be being able to reanimate demon/holy flesh 08:06:50 i think its fine that thats only a god power, and not even an explicit one 08:07:08 you mean yred? or what 08:07:12 yes, servitors 08:07:35 maybe just demon flesh then 08:07:37 demons and holies are pretty closely tied to gods 08:07:50 well, holies are, this isn't necessarily true for demons 08:07:51 holies more than demons, but still 08:08:07 kilobyte: that reminds me, have you seen my genus redo project? 08:08:23 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:41 Eronarn: makhleb lets you summon demons, xom summons demons, and some other gods use them for wrath 08:09:54 so demons being used as agents of the evil gods is not that uncommon 08:10:01 Is it a bug if a vault is spawned with what could be an OOD monster? 08:10:07 no 08:10:15 or well, what do you mean? 08:10:20 lots of vaults specifically place ood monsters 08:10:43 8 and 9 glyphs are random ood i think 08:10:51 DL11, pre lair - there is what I can only imagine a "vault" - some water (deep and shallow) dragon on the other side of it guarding a horde of treasure (2 potions, 2 scrolls, some weapons and soem gold) 08:11:12 run away :P 08:11:20 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:11:25 the Dragon ended up chasing me around the level, destroying my scrolls and nearly killing me repeatedly 08:11:31 so teleport 08:11:38 I did get away 08:11:41 eventually 08:11:42 and leave the goddamn level 08:11:45 I did 08:11:47 theres a dragon on it 08:11:59 but "hahahah, have a dragon" seems a little unfair at D11 08:12:08 but if it's OK then that's OK 08:12:19 current: http://i.imgur.com/Mny9L.png , changed so far: http://i.imgur.com/2Lb86.jpg 08:12:23 theres stuff on ood monsters in the design philosophy thingy 08:12:26 if it's RNG that's the way of it, if it's "oh, that vault can spawn that high up?" then I'll report it 08:12:55 alefury: what xom does is irrelevant :P makhleb lets you summon demons, but yred lets you control undead - they're gods associated with a thing but not all those things worship or belong to the god 08:13:04 basically it says ood is good, because it creates interesting situations and if you get away it increases the bond to your character 08:13:19 and apparently that dragon was survivable, so probably okay 08:13:28 Eronarn: not sure what do you mean 08:13:45 kilobyte: check out the links 08:14:31 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:14:40 they are confusing 08:14:57 alefury: Like I said, if it's intentional then, well, scary but ok 08:15:06 I've had a few other things that were unintentionally letahl 08:15:08 alefury: well, there's a lot of data to show :P 08:15:10 ens: there is no tornado version that comes with the source archive for 0.10 (I'm talking about the python tornado library). if the server doesn't support the current websocket version, you need to upgrade tornado 08:15:16 hence me querying in here for a quick judgement call rather than mantis up 08:15:24 phyphor: it sounds a little shallow, but you getting away is pretty much proof that its okay 08:15:40 it's not really that much worse than the fire drake lair entrance 08:15:41 @??dragon 08:15:41 dragon (03D) | Spd: 10 | Int: animal | HD: 12 | HP: 74-108 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 20, 13, 13 | Fl: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1358 | Sp: flame blast (3d24). 08:15:48 @??fire drake 08:15:48 fire drake (05l) | Spd: 12 | Int: animal | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 8 | Fl: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(24), 05fire | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 183 | Sp: flame blast (3d12). 08:15:48 Eronarn: what data? what do you want to do? 08:15:48 alefury: 3 tele scrolls, and it chewing through my imps, and I getting by with 11hp out of 61 08:15:51 I got very lucky 08:15:56 i just see a lot of monster names arranged in a graph 08:15:58 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:00 1 breath took 50 hp off me 08:16:13 alefury: oh, they're connected genus->species->individual 08:16:37 yeah i realized that, but i still dont know wtf you want to do 08:16:45 darkest color is genus==species==individual monster, next is species==individual monster, lightest is individual != species 08:16:50 phyphor: one breath could have killed you 08:16:53 yes 08:16:53 :P 08:16:55 I got lucky 08:16:58 well, it's a more general project to illustrate weirdness in mon-data.h 08:17:13 being able to look at related stuff together 08:17:15 alefury: that's why I was wondering if that vault spawnign at D11 is legit 08:17:21 and, also, it's not really a lot of good loot 08:17:34 i think its mostly a lair vault 08:17:34 however, you have real dev stuff being discussed so I'll shush now 08:18:06 i've already found several weird things while working on it (like air elementals being genus MONS_EARTH_ELEMENTAL) 08:18:07 poke evilmike if you think its too shallow, hes most in charge of vaults i guess 08:18:29 MarvinPA and elliptic might also have opinions 08:19:49 !tell evilmike there's a Dragon-guarding loot vault (behind some water) that spawned at D11 (pre-lair) which is pretty shallow for a Dragon 08:19:50 phyphor: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 08:20:56 again it's not that much worse than a fire drake. average twice as much damage, but slower and cold vuln 08:21:09 their breath attack is limited range too 08:21:53 keeping dragons around that early is also interesting because it means early fire dragon armor 08:22:45 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:13 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:20 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:25:41 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 08:26:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:31:25 Eronarn: slower? it was as fast as I was 08:31:35 lots more damage, chewed through my meat shields ... 08:31:44 but if it's not OOD it's not OOD 08:34:14 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:37:47 it's OOD but crawl is supposed to have OODs so 08:38:32 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:38:49 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:18 -!- CedorDark has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:40:49 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:58 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:40 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:06 yeah 09:02:07 -!- Thann has left ##crawl-dev 09:06:02 -!- Thann has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:41 Im loving the high scores feature btw 09:30:13 yeah its nice. it was a pain to find local morgues 09:47:35 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:09 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:04 -!- CedorDark has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:11 hello boys 09:52:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:38 I need 2 advices about descriptions 09:55:59 An adventurer's gravestone 09:56:00 The grave of an adventurer who came close to victory. 09:56:04 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:45 do you think victory means ascent? 09:58:00 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1959-g2b82bfc (33) 10:08:05 well, the orb is still at the bottom of the dungeon 10:08:16 so probably not 10:08:20 ok... 10:08:50 and i'm a bit confused by stone wall and rock wall 10:09:11 can I consider one is hand made and the other not? 10:10:29 stone walls are definitely hand-made 10:10:39 I think so 10:10:58 but the usual dungeon wall can be the reslut of only a digging 10:11:04 result* 10:11:06 rock walls could be either i guess, either walls of a natural cave, or walls of dug out passages 10:11:22 best to leave it unspecified for rock walls i think 10:11:37 well, the problem is for translation 10:11:41 -!- blmarket has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:44 yep :) 10:11:45 i gathered that much 10:12:00 in french, stone an rocks are quite the same word 10:12:14 (or at least can be used for the same thing 10:12:16 ) 10:12:45 ah galehar :) 10:12:52 rock -> roche, stone -> pierre 10:13:15 in english they are mostly synonymous too 10:13:41 je pensais : rock wall -> roche et stone wall -> mur de pierre 10:13:52 l'un manufacturé et l'autre pas 10:14:11 (sorry for the french in the middle :p) 10:14:18 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:23 ouais, ça le fait :) 10:14:30 :) 10:15:19 well, 2 identical comments, concept accepted :) 10:18:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:01 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:50 -!- st_ has quit [] 10:25:41 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30:40 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:30 Eronarn: that genus changes seem 1. utterly pointless (no improvement for anything in the game), 2. wrong 10:35:41 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:48 like, having nagas and Serpent of Hell as "serpent" 10:36:18 the former are a distinct type of creatures, being just as far from snakes as from humans 10:36:27 Serpent of Hell is a dragon not a snake 10:37:29 correction for 1.: it'd be actually a regression. Genus is used for "many monsters come into view" messages, and having "three serpents" for three nagas is misleading and wrong. 10:37:41 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:38:05 or, "five fire vortices" showing "five clouds" instead 10:40:36 -!- cosmonaut has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:09 kilobyte: i considered using vortex instead of cloud, yeah... soh shouldn't be a dragon though ;) 10:41:46 it's definitely still a WIP though 10:42:18 ...huh, does this mean you get 'several earth elementals' come into view? or is the genus string not based on the monster of that genus 10:44:44 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:47 !seen galehar 10:44:47 dpeg: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:44:48 I last saw galehar at Tue May 22 15:14:24 2012 UTC (30m 24s ago) saying ouais, ça le fait :) on ##crawl-dev. 10:44:58 hi dpeg! 10:45:26 galehar: I think your approach to transifex makes a lot of sense. I agree that exceptions etc. should be in lists, not in grammar functions. 10:45:29 Hi! 10:45:40 Eronarn: yes, I guess you do. That's for the same reason a generic giant genus was added (they used to be hill giant genus) 10:45:52 We're not trying to write a translator program, but just to get Crawl's strings translated. 10:45:54 Eronarn: it's easy to fix, just add an elemental genus 10:46:17 !messages 10:46:17 (1/3) kilobyte said (19w 4d 12h 43m 1s ago): constriction&-tele has been discussed twice, I repeated most of the arguments in the lengthy commit message. If you missed that, please say so -- anything that got committed can be reverted, and you often encourage that. No reason to QQ over something that can be undone. 10:46:33 dpeg: ok :) 10:46:34 dpeg: not really, I looked at several languages, and there is about nothing common than can be done by lists 10:46:35 oh, 19 weeks... that was another life 10:47:08 kilobyte: cannot store plural forms and articles in lists? 10:47:10 !messages 10:47:11 (1/2) bmh said (19w 3d 8h 16m 36s ago): I was thinking about the violence that Tolkein has done to the Roguelike. Could we get rid of orcs and elves? :) 10:47:12 galehar: right, i did already :) 10:47:16 !messages 10:47:17 (1/1) kilobyte said (1d 18h 53m 14s ago): among the Singing Sword lines, all of _speaking_high_tension_ is unused. When were they supposed to be included? And I don't know what weights should be. 10:47:21 there's more exceptions than rules, and there's really no way except for Turing-complete functions 10:47:24 also moved giant spores into fungus (they're *plants* right now, wtf?) 10:47:36 of course, many of these functions do want lists of some kind 10:47:48 too bad, these lists are per-language as well 10:47:57 I say: if it can be listed (and hence done by supporters), list it. 10:48:08 unfortunately the patch is going to be a bit tricky to get made and i'm doing other stuff atm 10:48:11 kilobyte: I'm not saying "tags" should replace grammar functions. We use them just for special cases. 10:49:55 can you store a genus for each monster? 10:50:19 kilobyte: basically, the pluralise function should check if the name has the invariant flag or a p tag defined. If neither, then it goes through the function to get an s or something else depending on how the word ends 10:51:00 (I mean specific) 10:51:13 CedorDark: each monster has a genus defined. Sometimes it's the same as the species 10:52:35 I don't understand the problem then 10:53:24 -!- SkaryMonk has left ##crawl-dev 10:53:27 if it's about pluralise, just store the pluralised form when needed 10:54:01 CedorDark: translations and genus are 2 separate discussions :) 10:54:55 yep, I know, and I think I miss some infos :p 10:55:01 kilobyte: I don't get what's bad about the lists being per-language. They will be different! 10:55:38 galehar: that there is no sharing of keys, either 10:56:02 well, the main key is shared 10:56:21 only for some uses, like the main part for actors 10:57:17 arg, I have to go now 10:57:25 bye! 10:57:27 bye! 10:58:03 kilobyte: I'd appreciate if you could explain what's wrong with my proposal. Either on c-r-d, or next time here. 10:58:18 * galehar leaves 10:58:19 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:32 pfff, mathematicians. they think having a countable number of exceptions in a list is better than 4 lines of code 11:14:49 depends :p 11:15:16 bhaak: four lines of code, each of uncountable length, I presume? 11:15:22 if the complexity of your 4 lines are exponential, i'm not sure countable list of items won't be better 11:16:33 -!- jle has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:16:37 -!- jle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:18:15 dpeg: depends on the language :-) 11:18:19 -!- cosmonaut has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:19:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:10 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:25:12 what people consider "rules" and "exception" can also be quite different. i've found grammar books that said German has ~20 different declensions for nouns. in nethack-de i found that there are only 4 for plural and singular IF you look at the numerus separatively. that makes it much easier and more regular. but i think, most grammaticians don't think like programmers :-) 11:31:27 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:25 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 11:37:22 yay, we have broke the 10% for translation :) 11:39:32 and I have a probleme with some strings 11:39:58 was some strings already pushed from transifes to trink? 11:40:09 transifex to trunk* 11:40:19 (think I need another coffee...) 11:40:38 strings with \n into it? 11:42:43 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:35 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:03 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:03 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:07 -!- Fangorn_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:30 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:58 -!- CedorDark has quit [Quit: Quitte] 13:00:33 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22:10 -!- Fangorn_ has quit [Quit: Fangorn_] 13:22:32 -!- Fangorn_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:35 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:44 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:54 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:32 hm, is there a way to see your exact hunger in wizmode? 14:07:10 MarvinPA: don't know -- does @ give more information than usual? 14:07:41 hm, it does but not including hunger unfortunately :P 14:09:39 ohh i see, it's right there on the hud 14:09:53 just not labelled so i didn't realise that's what it was, heh 14:11:09 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 14:13:35 03dolorous * rb9fcb504587a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix wording and punctuation of some statue descriptions. 14:15:22 Pinksniperdx (L11 FeMo) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1629 failed. (Lair:4) 14:16:07 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:18 03MarvinPA * rae76985360b9 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Don't let Famine cards feed you if you're already near-starved 14:34:11 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:34 -!- Nomi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:08 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:23 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:37 nono (L27 HaWr) ASSERT(you.can_pass_through_feat(grd(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 435 failed. (Pan) 15:09:07 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 15:10:19 03dolorous * rd030ed47db92 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Remove a tiles reference to a genus-only (never spawned) monster. 15:10:19 03dolorous * r3869806792b1 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Add spacing fix. 15:10:19 03dolorous * r2e17657ecfe9 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add formatting fixes. 15:10:23 03dolorous * r931ceae9aba8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Properly set halfling genus to MONS_HALFLING. 15:10:23 03dolorous * rf0ab75debbf5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-data.h): (Re)add the "bear" monster, now used only as the genus of bear types. 15:17:16 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:55 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:06 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:30 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:25:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:40 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:00 -!- Fangorn_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:58 -!- monqy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:11 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:36:17 -!- monqy_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:57 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:23 i do hope demigod/ds stay mons_human at least 15:42:25 <|amethyst> Does anyone see any problems with changing giant spores to genus MONS_FUNGUS? 15:42:26 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:42:29 <|amethyst> !messages 15:42:30 (1/1) Eronarn said (3d 6h 34m 55s ago): i just thought of something: while SOURCE_DEFAULT makes a lot of sense, it occurs to me that we should probably cut stuff like M_FAKESPELLS and add a field for what that monster's default spell source is 15:42:51 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:43:04 <|amethyst> Eronarn: I'd rather, at least initially, infer the source from the existing flags 15:43:22 <|amethyst> just to minimize the change 15:43:26 okay, i'll add a function to do that then 15:45:01 other random things i've noticed in genus crawling: elementals are all genus earth_elemental, murray is a lich rather than a curse skull 15:45:05 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 15:45:36 genus skeleton would be a good idea (liches, curse skulls, flying skulls, skeleton warriors, bone dragons) - we already have a useless 'is_skeletal' check 15:46:08 <|amethyst> "three skeletons come into view"... one of which is a lich 15:46:08 or possibly 'skeleton' and 'lich' 15:46:38 <|amethyst> that might be better 15:47:18 the whole point of making the chart was to make it easier to spot stuff that should be grouped, in any case, so it's working :) 15:47:36 <|amethyst> Murray appears to have the same genus/species as curse skulls 15:47:43 <|amethyst> genus lich, species curse skull 15:47:44 -!- Nomi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:17 that's odd... wonder how it got changed in mine? 15:48:20 maybe an errant find-replace 15:48:43 <|amethyst> let me check git-blame 15:48:57 <|amethyst> ISTR it was not this way last time I looked (at your prompting) 15:50:40 <|amethyst> hm, no, it's been that way for a while 15:51:06 other genus monsters that would seem to be good to have: the demon genuses ('several imps' all the way through 'several fiends' make sense), bug, mimic, fish 15:51:37 those ones are at least all similar enough that merging them doesn't seem to be a problem 15:51:49 plural of genus is genera, fyi. 15:52:31 the spelling patrol is on the loose :) 15:53:08 i had put sky/ice beast under elemental... but we could do 'elemental beast' (presumably we'll have mud beasts and lava beasts some day...) 15:53:09 Eronarn is right on the topic, imo. 15:53:35 (at least for demons, bug, mimic, fish) 15:53:41 <|amethyst> Eronarn: I'd prefer the latter 15:53:56 i guess it'd be an incentive for people to make more of them :D 15:54:16 slow mud beast with leda's aura, regen, and it isn't affected by ledas could be fun 15:54:21 <|amethyst> Eronarn: since the beasts are alive but elementals are not 15:54:31 oh, good point 15:55:09 dpeg: now you just need to send a crd mail about how imperative it is that we get lava orcs committed ;) 15:55:43 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:54 -!- CedorDark has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:18 03dolorous * r88e5021a7e17 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc food.cc food.h wiz-you.cc): Replace a magic number with a #define. 15:58:29 03dolorous * r0b016f0b3a20 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc wiz-you.cc): Use a #define (or a derivative of it) instead of a magic number. 16:00:27 <|amethyst> to be a bit more radical, does anyone see any problems with putting giant spores in species ballistomycetes? 16:00:59 <|amethyst> oh, I do, never mind that 16:04:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:16 03|amethyst * rb400b11c33a4 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Giant spores are fungi. 16:05:34 |amethyst: awesome commit message! 16:06:08 <|amethyst> :) 16:06:16 <|amethyst> I work with mycologists for a living :) 16:06:54 <|amethyst> Eronarn: also, wasps 16:07:23 <|amethyst> Eronarn: as for the skeletons, I think it might make more sense to classify skeletal warriors as genus wight 16:07:57 <|amethyst> not sure about flaming corpses... zombies maybe? 16:08:19 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:19 03dolorous * ra239fba72c4d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mon-data.h): Add an "elemental" monster, used only as the genus of elemental types. 16:08:19 03dolorous * r7ceb941ff2ba 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Move curse skulls into their own genus, as they're not really liches. 16:08:37 <|amethyst> dolorous <3 16:10:19 |amethyst: you work in a mushroom restaurant? 16:10:51 <|amethyst> nah, it wouldn't be good to eat the fungi they work with 16:11:08 ah, spores to take over the world -- I love that plan! 16:11:10 <|amethyst> though with some processing you can make millions on the black market 16:11:28 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:33 <|amethyst> (clavicipitacea, related to ergot, from which LSD is made) 16:11:43 <|amethyst> s/cea/ceae/ 16:12:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:06 that sounds like a good demon name 16:14:15 ;p 16:15:55 <|amethyst> I still think "ballistomycetes" is one of the most amusing creature names in Crawl 16:16:34 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:18:43 |amethyst: I like it a lot but I am not a mycologist -- they might be cringing. 16:19:15 i like it 16:19:26 oh, i am not a mycologist either 16:20:05 <|amethyst> my only objection is that it mixes Latin and Greek, but biologists do that all the time, so... 16:20:26 I think it's not really a exiting job :p 16:20:41 <|amethyst> (and "ballistromycetes" doesn't sound as good) 16:21:19 we also happen to be a fantasy game where we can do what we want 16:21:29 like name demons based on cats stepping on keyboards 16:21:50 :) 16:21:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:19 I had a question about transifex (dunno if someone have seen it this afternoon) 16:22:21 <|amethyst> FR: unique named "quythulghu" 16:22:36 was some strings pushed from transifex to trunk? 16:22:54 strings with \n into it? 16:22:55 <|amethyst> s/uyt/uylt/ # haven't played *band in a while 16:23:38 <|amethyst> CedorDark: literal backslash-n ? 16:23:53 no 16:24:02 the special char for line return 16:24:36 oh, strings with line breaks in them that shouldn't have line breaks in them 16:24:47 there are some in some desc, and was asking myself if I must keep the special char that transifex give 16:25:06 I dunno if they shouldn't or not 16:25:58 oh 16:26:14 <|amethyst> I think it all gets rewrapped anyway 16:26:16 wait a sec... 16:26:24 ok 16:26:25 <|amethyst> except for indented lines 16:26:41 <|amethyst> was there one in particular you had in mind? 16:26:46 I don't have to mind it when writing translation? 16:26:59 wait a sec 16:28:04 an open sea? 16:28:09 (in features) 16:28:48 it's the one I have already translate, and that have line break 16:29:05 <|amethyst> CedorDark: which language? 16:29:16 sorry, french 16:29:46 <|amethyst> oh, that one appears not to have been synced yet 16:29:59 -!- Fangorn__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:01 surprising :p 16:30:04 <|amethyst> as long as there is an empty line between the paragraphs, newlines shouldn't matter 16:30:18 <|amethyst> from translation.txt: 16:30:19 <|amethyst> Line breaks are automatically removed when the text is imported, unless for 16:30:19 <|amethyst> lines starting with empty spaces and empty lines. There's also an exception for 16:30:22 <|amethyst> lines starting with {{ or }} (to include lua code). Quotes use smart quote 16:30:25 <|amethyst> unicode characters (U+8220 and U+8221). 16:30:44 hum 16:31:01 I can rewrite the line break then 16:31:32 -!- Fangorn__ has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:48 I think the original string contain CRLF, and transifex use only LF 16:31:57 (or the contrary) 16:33:19 I only wanted to know if this matter or not :p 16:34:32 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 16:36:17 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:44 <|amethyst> LF vs CRLF shouldn't matter: CR is stripped when generating the .txt files 16:38:06 ok 16:39:43 hum, saint roka is a he? 16:40:13 CedorDark: why not? 16:40:27 <|amethyst> yes, Roka is male 16:41:04 dpeg, dunno 16:41:32 I never asked myself about him, but, when ready the descrition, I felt a bit surprised, that's all 16:42:15 orcish society seems to be extremely hierarchical and patriarchal (are these words?) 16:42:20 03|amethyst * r123aa8b86963 10/crawl-ref/docs/translation.txt: Minor fixes to the translation docs. 16:42:30 dpeg: yes and yes 16:42:49 fr: more female orcs 16:43:13 hum, I think this is why I was seeing him as female 16:43:28 I have met more female unique orcs than males 16:43:32 <|amethyst> FR: determine gender of (most) non-uniques randomly at creation time 16:43:36 There is only a single known female orc, and she's Erolcha. 16:43:44 <|amethyst> Erolcha isn't an orc 16:43:49 <|amethyst> Nergalle is female, though 16:43:49 blammo :) 16:44:16 there is only Nergalle? well she have impress me more than the others :p 16:44:46 roka's male? 16:45:06 and always was 16:45:07 <|amethyst> see mons_pronoun() in mon-util.cc for the list 16:45:15 i see 16:45:27 Please don't spread myths about Roka's homosexuality again. He really does not care for it. 16:45:35 lol 16:46:59 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:06 <|amethyst> there are only three non-unique males, and they are pseudo-uniques 16:47:39 <|amethyst> there are, however, five non-unique females (mermaid, queen bee/ant, harpy, and sphinx) 16:48:29 These Greek had a fatal feminity fetish, I always knew it! 16:49:10 femenity fetish was a perversion in ancient greece 16:49:17 <|amethyst> also: erinyes, moirai, ... 16:49:57 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:22 <|amethyst> anyway, I should be going now. Later 16:51:38 me too 16:51:42 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: bye] 17:04:29 Reflection reflects bolts of penetration (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5694) by absolutego 17:05:15 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:32 -!- wh1te has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:50 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:41 so from the source it looks like crawl uses a derivative of the relatively weak KISS pseudorandom number generator 17:16:01 would be nice (and probably trivial) to upgrade the rng to a mersenne twister 17:19:05 headzone: bmh is the guy who does the rng stuff, I presume he could have done mersenne twister if he wanted to so perhaps he has some good reason why he didn't 17:25:51 how random does it /need/ to be 17:26:43 can't think of any reason; MT is pretty much just better 17:26:54 http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/SFMT/ 17:28:09 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:24 is there any difference between a portal and a gate? 17:29:19 i think "gate" is sometimes used for large doors 17:32:18 headzone: crawl used mt19937 before this one 17:32:42 it is as big as a portal 17:33:23 edlothiol: why the switch? 17:33:38 I think the problem was that it can be predicted after observing not too many rng results; I believe someone actually managed to do that (on the public servers) 17:34:24 that doesn't make sense, unless it was an implementation bug 17:34:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:35:33 it's very possible I'm misremembering 17:35:50 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 17:35:53 but according to wikipedia, Observing a sufficient number of iterates (624 in the case of MT19937, since this figure is the size of the state vector from which future iterates are produced) allows one to predict all future iterates 17:37:06 -!- croikle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:00 hey all. I think recent commit d5d3ea0 "Allow clua to query m:is("flag") by name rather than enum." breaks building l:moninf.o 17:40:39 the build seems to work from the preceding commit 17:42:06 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:47 looks like the #endif at the end of mi-enum.h doesn't get placed there 17:45:57 err, that's not quite right 17:47:36 %git d5d3ea0 17:47:36 kilobyte * rd5d3ea0a811f: Allow clua to query m:is("flag") by name rather than enum. (22 hours ago, 4 files, 41+ 2-) 17:47:39 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:48:57 util/gen-mi-enum.sed needs to put an #endif at the end of the file 17:49:18 when it generates mi-enum.h 17:49:41 or maybe my mi-enum is messed up and should be wiped? 17:50:26 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:41 the first line of the sed script isn't working. I think that's it 18:01:51 gotta be a 1 not a 0. okay, I'll see if that's good 18:08:17 -!- ens has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:09:50 |amethyst: huh? wights are either ghostly or fleshy undead, typically 18:12:11 wasps makes sense, flaming corpses could go in zombies sure 18:12:46 i put wights in zombies in mine 18:13:49 oh right 18:14:06 it's not really that much worse than the fire drake lair entrance 18:14:14 breath timers 18:14:37 also the whole plant guarding thing but no fire drakes at range are not really dragons 18:14:43 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:18:36 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:26:46 patch for my issue: http://pastebin.com/MVfBbhnT 18:27:45 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:32 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:34 I guess the issue is because I'm on a Mac and used the default sed, which behaves slightly differently from gnu sed 18:38:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:11 -!- ens has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:25 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:50 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:22:17 croikle: 1,/something/ is not correct as it breaks on the first line 19:22:51 this is not needed right now but might be in the future 19:27:44 -!- croikle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:44 -!- croikle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:45 -!- croikle_ is now known as croikle 19:29:19 headzone: we recently upgraded _from_ Mersenne's Twister precisely to fix that security issue 19:44:05 -!- croikle has quit [Quit: croikle] 19:52:02 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:23 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:31 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:13 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:35 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:36 03kilobyte * r8fb0316fb6d9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Change the desc for Necromutation. 20:05:47 03kilobyte * r3895668e4cf8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (Makefile util/gen-mi-enum util/gen-mi-enum.sed): Rewrite gen-mi-enum in Perl to work around broken sed on Mac. 20:06:24 if liches are explicitly skeletal then lrd should totally work on them 20:09:03 aren't they corpsey 20:09:06 it does... 20:09:41 a0-1907 gives a no 20:10:20 in fact, that insta-kill gimmick should be removed 20:10:45 well, yes, I just wanted exploding liches, not dead-liches 20:10:55 ...exploded liches 20:11:50 hrm, this check seems broken 20:12:13 fr kamakazie liches 20:12:43 boris will come back anyway 20:12:57 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:14 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 20:18:16 just remove the autokill check entirely 20:18:22 it doesn't matter how much of something is brittle 20:18:27 a human dies if you explode its skeleton, too 20:18:32 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:17 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 20:19:17 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 20:19:17 -!- elliptic has quit [*.net *.split] 20:19:19 giant lich 20:19:29 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 20:21:27 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:27 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:49 oh yeah that reminds me, i'd added a lizard genus to mine 20:21:55 can we just rename giant newt to 'lizard' and use that 20:22:12 it's not even the last giant foo 20:22:49 also then we can add an easter egg message for becoming petrified interrupting your eating a lizard corpse 20:25:15 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 20:25:15 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 20:28:41 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:27 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:27 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:01:28 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:07:49 -!- monqy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:11:39 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:39 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:50 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 21:49:51 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 21:55:07 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:08 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:12 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:26 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:08 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:43 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:20 -!- wh1te has left ##crawl-dev 22:39:30 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 22:44:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:57 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:02 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:47 03MarvinPA * rb2ae569f3f38 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/unrand.txt: Give Wyrmbane a description 23:13:01 !tell kilobyte i can't compile on windows: Can't find monster_info_flags in mon-info.h 23:13:02 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 23:14:27 (due to 3895668e4cf8c71d21, that is) 23:22:41 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:34 MarvinPA: out of purely morbid curiosity, what compiler were you using? 23:36:02 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 23:45:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:46:42 -!- ens has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:12 -!- ens has joined ##crawl-dev