00:02:22 /usr/share/crawl/dat/des/builder/food.des:107: Bad item name: 'throwing net' (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5666) by FatBoy 00:03:43 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1800-gec45d1d (33) 00:07:32 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:07:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:27 -!- XnMojo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:34 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:48 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1800-gec45d1d 00:24:58 -!- absolutego is now known as absolutego_ 00:25:07 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:50:46 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:37 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:19:47 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:21:44 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:21:59 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:29 -!- Sabaki has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:51 so im getting an odd error in trunk on cdo after transferring my save to the latest version: 01:34:00 Starting Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup ec45d1d... /crawl-svn-ec45d1d/dat/des/builder/food.des:107: Bad item name: 'throwing net' 01:46:56 I found a bug in cast_summon_small_mammals in spl-summoning.cc 01:47:03 int count = (pow == 25) ? 2 : 1; should obviously be int count = (pow >= 25) ? 2 : 1; 01:48:20 i doubt it. the power cap on that spell is 25 01:48:44 it would make for an interesting bug if the spell's power cap was ever raised 01:48:51 heh, yeah 01:52:06 pivotal the Demonspawn of Death (L27 DsIE) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2053 failed on turn 86393. (WizLab) 02:02:11 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:48 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:12 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:44 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:51 roippi (L21 DEFE) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 109: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (0,0) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:13:21 roippi (L21 DEFE) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 109: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (0,0) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 02:31:59 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:53 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:17 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:33 -!- SkaryMonk1 is now known as SkaryWonk 02:41:32 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:39 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:55 -!- shirish has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:53 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 03:30:38 meh, I think alot of people are having this problem with the new crawl version https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5666 03:30:47 can't start the game 03:37:20 Did throwing nets recently get removed? 03:38:22 yesterday they were in the game 03:40:25 Oh hey, Stone Soup just added the Ice Storm prompt recently. In exactly the same hacky way I did it. 03:41:31 does it not have firestorm/cloudspell-alike showing-where-it-might-hit yet? 03:41:54 No, it does, last I checked. 03:42:02 oh, huh 03:44:32 ??guru wisdom[9] 03:44:32 guru wisdom[9/24]: imo don't icestorm yourself 03:46:58 Odd that Fire Storm wasn't implemented at the same time; that code's cleaner. 03:47:31 yeah, "crawl code" I guess 03:48:52 03kilobyte * r3fd757a6f627 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Don't show throwing net tear status when base name is requested. 03:50:25 fr animated non-weapons, including throwing nets 03:50:44 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:20 I've half-jokingly suggested animated rods casting spells before (right now iirc they behave just like normal animated weapons, and weak ones at that), and probably animated wands too 03:51:59 Nomi the Sorcerer (L27 DEFE) ASSERT(branch >= 0 && branch < NUM_BRANCHES) in 'branch.cc' at line 50 failed on turn 113289. (Hell) 03:52:48 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1801-g3fd757a (33) 03:54:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:56:21 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1801-g3fd757a 04:22:47 kilobyte: is it intentional that you don't need to know the curse status of throwable weapons to id them? 04:25:47 you always could have ided them in the old code. When changing id-by-use to id-by-skill, I initially did it the way you mention, but then reverted. 04:26:24 the problem is, we'd need some way to convey known pluses but not curse status, and that's extra complexity, especially for the player 04:26:26 yeah, but with missile enchantment gone, seems like it would be more consistent to have them behave like normal weapons 04:26:47 oh right 04:27:04 curses don't prevent you from throwing things, though 04:29:07 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:30:14 maybe it would be better to require curse-iding them before being able to plus-id them, even with throwing skill. 04:31:58 perhaps; I'd prefer removing Detect Curse scrolls instead 04:32:55 (these don't strictly block each other, but without a means of curse detection, wielding everything you intend to throw would be spoilery) 04:33:48 also, since you don't care for curse status on items you throw, it's not obvious why they would suddenly fail to id 04:34:55 what if throwing curse-id items? And of course, if it's cursed it sticks to your hand and isn't thrown. 04:35:28 what if you were wielding a cursed weapon? 04:35:46 or are throwing a two-hander while you have a shield 04:36:51 well, you wouldn't be able to. Throwing would require being able to wield the thing. 04:38:08 currently throwing things is the way out of cursed blowguns/slings/etc 04:40:27 well, nobody's forced to wield-id them :) 04:42:13 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:30 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:17 elliptic: are you awake? 04:48:52 looks like I have a radical but simple idea for reforming missile combat 04:49:33 kilobyte: I love that phrasing. 04:50:28 'radical but simple' 04:50:32 eh I just polymorphed sigmund into a jelly, and then into swamp drake and he started casting spells in swamp drake form, is this a bug or? 04:50:39 gnsh: not a bug 04:50:44 he has hands, he can cast spells at you 04:50:49 I think that's how it works 04:50:52 ah :) 04:50:56 Feels like he should have lost his mind when he became a jelly :D 04:51:09 I thought it was about speech or something, can swamp drakes speak 04:51:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:51:24 uhh 04:51:42 maybe it's a hands thing I don't quite remember 04:52:04 1. nuke existing code from the orbit, 2. when you throw/shoot something, do a normal melee attack. This can be balanced up/down by altering the weapon's stats. 04:52:35 the only issue that's not obvious are slings: they have two ammo types, and one of these can be thrown by hand as well 04:53:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:10 kilobyte: maybe ranged_attack could be derived from attack. 05:00:06 yeah, that's mostly what I'm proposing (although that's a code detail) 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1783-g3fa52a4 05:00:11 regarding balance, shouldn't ranged attacks be usually weaker than melee attacks? Since they have the ranged advantage already 05:01:07 part of the balance is needing ammo, as well as enemies casting repel/deflect missiles (I think only a few uniques can atm?) 05:01:17 kilobyte: while we're at it, I think it would be nice to remove brand overlap between launchers and missiles and let them stack 05:01:19 for monsters, it's strongly the opposite now 05:01:29 * galehar has to go now 05:01:33 bye! 05:02:42 spriggan air mages 05:03:59 no monster has RMsl, a few (spriggan air mages, the Enchantress, Kirke) have DMsl -- as a permanent property rather than a spell 05:05:30 oh, it's permanent, I see 05:08:05 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:29 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:12:33 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:19 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:15:58 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:19 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 05:45:36 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:36 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:55 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:43 -!- PatashuXantheres is now known as Patashu 06:59:57 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:03 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:36 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:29:07 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:30:06 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:09 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:22 hunter were differentiated from AM by having +1 ammo. Shouldn't we give them more ammo now? (or less to AM since the mulch change) 08:52:48 possibly, yeah 08:52:53 also, nets are still enchanted? 08:53:49 you could use EW scrolls to repair them by a tiny bit, but otherwise, they use item_def.plus to track tear status 08:54:41 i created some in wizmode and they are displayed as +0 08:54:57 I left the display of that with just a "TODO" comment, it indeed needs to be changed 08:55:06 alright 08:55:16 what about "throwing net [slightly frayed]"? 08:55:30 yeah, something like that would work fine 08:56:19 kilobyte: would you answer dpeg's email? 08:56:56 a tricky one :p 08:57:32 well, I would do it, but I wasn't around when it was discussed, so I'm not sure about all the reasons 08:57:35 I pulled the plug on missile enchantments, but mostly because elliptic mentioned that several times. All my reasons there were technical, not balance related. 08:58:05 reducing inventory management is the obvious one and good enough for me! 08:58:32 ok, we'll ask elliptic to answer him then :) 08:58:58 although if we do rewrite missile code, for example like the proposal I mentioned in the morning, that'd be enough to explain to dpeg :p 08:59:38 (and again, waiting for elliptic's input, since he's the person who cares about missiles the most) 09:01:34 kilobyte: do you have an opinion about launcher and missiles stacking brands? Assuming result is balanced since rebalancing is upcoming anyway 09:02:03 kilobyte: making them work like melee attacks would be very, very good. i don't see any reason to try and base the rebalance off the existing insane-person code 09:02:07 the code is mostly intact, yeah 09:02:44 (I meant, multiple brand code) 09:02:57 i think if we had enchanted ammo be rarer but with far more dramatic effects, so it's more like a consumable, that would be good 09:03:12 like: arrows that split into 3 when you fire them 09:03:27 Eronarn: you mean branded, not enchanted, right? 09:03:35 yes 09:04:21 your launcher brand would be equivalent to melee weapon brand, and the ammo brand would do something super cool extra (but also very limited in amount) that stacks 09:04:59 triple arrows 09:05:02 and ideally the ammo brands would be things good against multiple rather than single opponents. arrow splitting, penetration, reaping - so you don't just stockpile it up for cerebov 09:05:47 i.e., not pure damage output, but cool effects 09:07:26 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 09:09:08 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:36 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:12 we've got 9 languages on transifex! 09:11:30 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:34 the only one at 0% is german which is... surprising 09:15:57 How do I get a language on there? (Swedish) 09:16:23 the count is greatly dragged down by quotes 09:17:19 ghallberg: there's a button to request the addition of a language 09:17:30 spanish would be around 80% if not for them 09:17:47 kilobyte: on the other hand, there's a lot of stuff to translate which are not on transifex yet! 09:17:50 mmm, other-language quotes are an interesting question 09:18:36 octo poem is going to be pretty untranslateable :P 09:18:40 oh, korean bastards took my 2nd place, too 09:19:29 got to overtake them again... preferably, by talking someone else into joining the translation 09:20:25 kilobyte: do you know other polish crawlers? 09:21:31 I never looked at people's nationality; there's a bunch of polish-sounding names on ##crawl but the only person whom I know about is b0rsuk. 09:22:12 because you see, an english speaking polack doesn't look that different on IRC from an english speaking martian 09:23:45 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 09:24:52 my extended family is actually all polish (dad's side is dead, mom was adopted) 09:25:34 are butter lambs a US polish thing or are they popular there too 09:26:15 for Easter? there's always one, yeah 09:27:20 they're so creepy 09:29:08 03galehar * r47e62abd5a39 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/es/ability.txt: Add missing blank line. 09:29:15 03galehar * r58c85328aa04 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Transifex sync. 09:33:15 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:29 Starting Screen: capitalize m in mode (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5667) by XuaXua 09:40:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1801-g3fd757a (33) 09:55:45 -!- SkaryWonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:30 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:57 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:22:13 "_Ran outta altars fer temple!" okay, WTF does that mean? just headed down the stairs to D:6 and got that 10:23:01 <|amethyst> somehow there ended up being more B glyphs than remaining temple altars 10:23:14 i haven't even found the Temple stairs yet 10:23:14 <|amethyst> there's a report about this on mantis 10:23:21 <|amethyst> that's even weirder 10:23:23 this is a cavernous looking level, though 10:23:29 <|amethyst> make a save backup and post to that bug 10:24:04 * ussdefiant is gonna need a walkthrough for that 10:24:16 <|amethyst> !lm ussdefiant x=src,tiles 10:24:16 478. [2012-05-14] [src=cao;tiles=] ussdefiant the Slasher (L8 HOGl) entered the sewers on turn 3283. (D:5) 10:24:36 <|amethyst> from the main menu for your game version, select (A)dvanced 10:24:56 <|amethyst> then (B)ackup 10:25:12 <|amethyst> that will give you a password-protected URL---you can't access it but devs can 10:25:18 "Backup normal save character?" 10:25:23 <|amethyst> yeah 10:25:39 https://crawl.akrasiac.org/saves/dumps/ussdefiant-crawl-git-3fd757a6f6-120514-1125.tar.bz2 10:25:45 now, off to Mantis... 10:25:51 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5651 is the bug 10:26:18 <|amethyst> Just add that, and any additional info you can think of (e.g. that you haven't been to Temple yet) to the note 10:26:25 <|amethyst> s/the note/a new note/ 10:27:23 i did see a Temple Staircase mimic earlier, but... 10:27:42 <|amethyst> that might be relevant 10:27:57 <|amethyst> I don't think it is, but it may be 10:28:07 was whoever came up with Branch Entry Stairs Mimics desiring to troll players or something, incidentally? 10:28:35 <|amethyst> only inasmuch as mimics are inherently trollsome 10:30:38 <|amethyst> there was a period where you could have floor mimics 10:30:50 <|amethyst> *those* were removed for being too trollsome :) 10:30:57 floor mimics? 10:31:15 <|amethyst> exactly what it sounds like 10:31:25 <|amethyst> '.' glyph and everything 10:31:40 would it be safe to continue with this game? 10:31:50 <|amethyst> should be, yes 10:32:02 <|amethyst> you might be missing an altar 10:32:28 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:30 <|amethyst> but if XuaXua's save is anything to go by, maybe not (the difference being that he had visited the Temple already) 10:33:04 ah, here's the Temple 10:33:44 should i bother trying to figure out precisely what temple vault this is? 10:33:55 <|amethyst> I can get that from the save 10:34:04 <|amethyst> oh 10:34:05 no obvious missing altars here, from what's that worth 10:34:09 <|amethyst> moment 10:34:14 <|amethyst> let me watch your game for a sec 10:34:40 <|amethyst> okay 10:35:14 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:52 want me to do anything in particular? 10:36:10 <|amethyst> no, I just wanted to see the map 10:36:30 <|amethyst> you may proceed 10:37:31 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:09 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:29 Firos (L21 DrTm) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed. (Slime:1) 10:48:58 <|amethyst> oh 10:49:15 <|amethyst> nemelex_altar_shiori uses the 'B' glyph for some smoke machines 10:51:31 that one was recently changed i think 10:51:44 so maybe something got broken in the process 10:53:00 all that was changed was making it correctly have no_rtele_into i think 10:53:10 but it has really weird syntax so maybe i broke something else somehow 10:53:22 <|amethyst> no, I think it was always that way 10:53:50 <|amethyst> aha 10:54:04 <|amethyst> wonder if I broke it 10:54:33 <|amethyst> it has a KPROP 10:55:07 <|amethyst> hm... no, my changes shouldn't have affected KPROP and MARKER 10:55:35 <|amethyst> it's not intentional that those are altars, right? 10:57:37 -!- XnMojo has quit [Quit: XnMojo] 11:04:25 03|amethyst * rca6e795c2435 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Remove extra altars from nemelex_altar_shiori. 11:04:32 <|amethyst> ussdefiant: thanks 11:05:12 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:23 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r51f297d003e3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Clean up nemelex_altar_shiori a bit. 11:08:23 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rab10c797994b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Remove extra altars from nemelex_altar_shiori. 11:12:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:14:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:31 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:49 what the heck was even triggering the errors in that vault? Not specifyign what the glyphs were? 11:18:44 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 11:19:52 perhaps we could add a warning when something uses an undefined glyph? Or uses B if it's not an altar vault. 11:23:39 -!- absolutego_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:42:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:19 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the former would need all kinds of vaults be changed 11:46:45 <|amethyst> the latter could be good, but this was an altar vault 11:47:18 <|amethyst> (not temple_overflow_N though) 11:47:38 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:18 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the problem is when it's *not* an undefined glyph; Zannick did something similar (using "o" that could end up unsubstituted) in the orb mimics patch 11:49:46 <|amethyst> that does mean that we have to be really careful about adding new glyphs, but I'm okay with that 11:50:25 <|amethyst> e.g. we don't have a glyph for 'teleporter' 11:57:06 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:07 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:45 it is used so many times that having a predefined glyph for it would save us invaluable time! 12:03:12 like, say, old O for rune 12:07:06 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:16 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:22 |amethyst: it could end up unsubstituted? huh. i was sure otherwise. 12:18:08 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:54 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:22:35 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:07 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:15 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:58 kilobyte: I like the idea of nuking current ranged damage code and replacing it with something more similar to melee, yes. I do like the current ranged delay formula though... we might even consider switching melee to something more similar to it 12:33:15 <|amethyst> Zannick: yeah, now that I look at it again it wasn't that... but there was something strange happenning, because I definitely saw glass there in my testing 12:33:54 funny enough, i originally had it as O and changed it... 12:34:14 <|amethyst> Zannick: kitem() would have overridden the floor, though, and there wouldn't have been a kmask on the 'o' to trigger the older bug (that had resulted in duplicate guardians) 12:35:34 galehar: about Hu vs AM, I'd say that Hu should have a +1 launcher if using a launcher and more ammo if using a throwable. We should consider at some point whether there is too much ammo lying around the dungeon early game, too. We might reduce all ammo stack sizes by 30% or something 12:36:01 <|amethyst> what about centaurs? 12:36:07 galehar: also assassins probably need fewer needles now that they mulch half as often 12:36:11 <|amethyst> they seem to be a pretty big source of early-game arrows 12:36:38 their ammo could be reduced also, yes 12:39:19 kilobyte / galehar: my main reason for eliminating missile enchantment was to make managing them more sane... 4 stacks instead of 10 is a big difference. I also think that launcher enchantment + launcher brand + ammo brand/material is enough parameters, no need for two different enchantments 12:41:08 Another thing is that people were often quite confused about enchanting ammo, since it doesn't show up on the list of things to wield 12:41:51 <|amethyst> that was changed recently (if you are carrying ?EW) 12:42:06 <|amethyst> didn't check to see whether that was reverted 12:42:22 ah, still a bit weird though 12:42:50 <|amethyst> oh, it wasn't 12:43:05 enchanting ammo is a D&Dism, anyways 12:43:14 (in particular, wielding ammo early-game so that enchant weapon isn't wasted when you read-ID it if you are afraid of curse weapon was... convoluted) 12:43:14 purge 12:44:36 <|amethyst> hm 12:44:43 <|amethyst> it can't be completely reverted though 12:44:54 <|amethyst> because you can still enchant nets to repair them 12:45:10 that doesn't need to be a thing IMO 12:48:45 <|amethyst> oh, actually 12:48:48 <|amethyst> you can't 12:52:31 03|amethyst * rbc601e5817b7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/wield.lua: Revert "Show missiles in the wield screen when carrying ?EW." 12:52:39 |amethyst: I removed that, it was totally useless (a scroll for a fraction of a turn holding a monster), and spoily too -- it's a scroll of enchantment, not repairing 12:53:01 <|amethyst> kilobyte: good :) 12:53:23 not sure what to do with nets: should they keep the tearing mechanics? 12:53:53 <|amethyst> maybe just have a fixed chance of destroying them 12:55:47 <|amethyst> I guess the issue with that is, if you can kill them before they escape, it was free 12:55:53 -!- ussdefiant__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:52 have the fixed chance of destruction happen when the net hits something, I guess? 12:58:37 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:49 -!- ussdefiant__ is now known as ussdefiant 12:59:51 <|amethyst> elliptic: hm 13:00:17 <|amethyst> elliptic: I don't know... that means even it it hits there might be no effect 13:00:54 <|amethyst> you couldn't trap them in that case (without other code changes) because the game would claim them to be webbed 13:01:36 <|amethyst> maybe if the chance were computed on hit, set a flag on the item, and clear_trapping_net etc destroys the item if the flag is set? 13:01:53 <|amethyst> s/stroys/stroyed/ 13:02:48 yeah, you'd need something like that I guess 13:12:00 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:37 -!- voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:16:07 kilobyte: i think it is fine to assume that the player can repair small breaks in nets (irl, you already have to re-fold nets for them to be useful for throwing) 13:16:20 it should either be functional, or so torn that it's useless 13:17:58 by the way, can we get nets and constriction and confusion to have slightly more similar penalties? 13:18:15 nets: EV penalty, sh 0. constriction: no penalties. confusion: no EV penalty, sh 0 13:20:00 another thing i think we should consider: make it not SH 0, but just a SH penalty 13:20:56 irl, a shield is useful even if you aren't holding it up, because it is covering - at minimum - your arm 13:21:43 this is analogous to how being tiny gives you EV even if you aren't dodging 13:21:43 <|amethyst> also, what about spellcasting penalties? 13:22:37 |amethyst: when this came up last time the best thought i had was to have 'top half entangled' and 'bottom half entangled' status effects, more or less 13:22:58 <|amethyst> that sounds overly complicated 13:23:09 well, it would be replacing multiple existing ones 13:23:33 <|amethyst> oh, constriction too? 13:23:54 yeah, it would be like: constriction (current) = bottom half. net (current) = top + bottom half. right now, nothing is 'just' top half 13:24:15 <|amethyst> doesn't make sense for all forms though 13:24:35 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:37 no, but it might be better to just ignore that 13:25:02 in which case the effects are really less about 'half' and just: 'impaired movement', 'impaired actions' 13:25:54 with effects like: impaired movement = no move, EV penalty. impaired actions = casting penalty, SH penalty, attacking penalty 13:27:01 the idea would be that you could then use these more generally, like how we've expanded the Breath status to do more things 13:27:24 rather than every new constriction-like ability using totally different effects/code 13:28:06 <|amethyst> that could work, though of course constriction still needs its own code in other places 13:28:09 for example: a necro spell that withers limbs, which can do either effect at 50% chance 13:28:21 right now it'd be hard to explain how it works; with those two effects, it would be clear 13:29:00 <|amethyst> L9 "mass hold monster" Hex that gives impaired movement 13:30:15 |amethyst: a spell that makes all monsters think they're mimes trapped in boxes 13:30:56 it would fit well with making hexes more into an illusion-y school 13:32:59 <|amethyst> Doroklohe's Illusionary Tomb 13:33:35 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:58 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:46:28 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:00 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:03 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:09 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:55 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:37:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:55:25 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:17 -!- Adeon has quit [Quit: gone...FOR NOW] 15:06:25 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:50 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:17 -!- Jatoskep has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:41 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:56 -!- ark_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:57 hmm, an interesting thing about {tried} scrolls. 15:27:01 they're amnesia :p 15:27:41 could be curse jewelry, but only if you had no jewels when first read-iding scrolls 15:28:09 or could be curse weapon on some chars 15:28:21 or curse armour on octofelids 15:28:23 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:53 might be best to make all scrolls ID on read, though... like potions already do 15:29:10 'You forget why you were reading in the first place. It must have been a scroll of amnesia.' 15:29:20 elliptic: i am strongly in favor of that. wands, too 15:29:39 stuff like having to zap-ID at something in front of a wall is nethackism at its worst 15:29:56 well there's almost always a wall :P 15:30:22 yeah, but new players won't know to do that. and there's also healing, which requires them to be wounded, etc. 15:30:33 preferably take a kobold, scratch him, and have a diggable wall behind him 15:30:39 no real reason to keep it, so let's axe it 15:31:19 -!- ark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:22 if we're going to have ID games at all they should at least be ones that affect how you use resources rather than the conditions under which you try to play 15:31:36 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:16 with heal wounds I don't worry about the monster being wounded and just scroll-ID wands that aren't digging and don't give a message 15:32:25 since you want to know how many charges you have anyway 15:32:45 I agree wand IDing is not great though, yes 15:33:17 having it be optimal to zap a wand at empty air when you find it isn't good either though 15:33:48 (knowing what you have is much more valuable than one charge) 15:34:16 not really sure what to suggest though 15:34:26 also I use "though" too many times :( 15:34:31 well, this only applies to: the MR resisted ones, healing, digging. right? 15:35:05 it's already optimal to do that for the other kinds 15:35:22 except that you don't know what kind it is :P 15:35:55 also hasting 15:36:44 what about always IDing digging (it makes the ground liquid in a line momentarily), and have the others have a no effect message/autoinscribe that specifically indicate needing to be tested on a creature 15:36:45 in some ways I'd prefer having wands just come with known types 15:37:56 -!- Jatoskep has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:16 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 15:38:17 unknown wand craziness is good potential vault material, monsters should use random effects for compensation 15:38:32 elliptic: hmm, what if we made the damage wands and the hex wands be different items? 15:38:38 or have different unIDed appearances at least 15:39:01 find disint, then ignore every other hex wand on auto-pickup 15:39:11 HangedMan: this would be a valuable application of this, yes 15:39:17 remove current rods, rename half of the wands to rods :P 15:39:19 (except healing/haste would fall under 'hex wands', so) 15:39:24 yes, pah 15:39:42 the implementable to change autopickup on the \ screen would work out better 15:39:45 well, haste should fall under charms wands, no? ;) 15:39:53 this reminds me a bit of staff vs wand in angband 15:40:11 tome4 just recently redid this, by the way 15:40:17 (yet another stable version before that gets in, sheesh) 15:40:20 now, all wand-like consumables recharge, but share the same power source 15:40:40 there the main distinctions between the two types are that wands are targeted and staves can be used while confused 15:40:41 crawl rods work kind of like that, which we could emphasize more, i think 15:41:00 Eronarn: crawl rods are awful 15:41:12 well, yes, but the idea of rods is cool 15:41:18 so we should try and redo them to not be awful 15:42:01 forget vehumet unique spells, take all of the good ideas from there and make every rod have at least one non-castable spell 15:42:08 also remove condensation shield from warding sheesh 15:42:44 also remove condensation shield 15:43:18 have people ever considered making wands require wielding? 15:43:35 make condensation shield have a very short period of very good effect, then a relatively long period of around 0 skill buckler shield, and not melt on it's own 15:43:44 and make power make fire melt it less 15:44:09 eronarn, what do you have against ashenzarites 15:44:11 i think it'd make them a lot more interesting (if they were made appropriately stronger) 15:44:17 HangedMan: uhhhh 15:44:21 were you around for ashenzari development 15:44:40 did not read any logs from that period 15:44:50 there were So Many Fights about it 15:45:07 like constriction so many fights or hellspider so many fights 15:45:15 (in the end, it was a compromise: ash still gets reskilling, but it's nerfed from what it was, and has lost the XP bonus in favor of a skill gain similar to what i proposed) 15:45:21 worse than either 15:45:22 what about that lightning rod idea? I think the design ended up being pretty good, except for the theme issue that lightning should bounce, while area-of-arc effects would be a nightmare to bounce 15:45:51 kilobyte: what about making it a geyser of some fluid? water, acid 15:45:52 Eronarn: does anyone ever use reskilling anymore? 15:46:05 i've used it before, actually. it's much better balanced now 15:46:10 I've heard of reskilling used notably in ##crawl 15:46:38 now that it isn't practically free to use, it does make you question whether you want to give up your old skill 15:46:40 Eronarn: ie, not go through monsters other than the first? Or perhaps the shotgun way: killed monster instantly becomes transparent. 15:46:55 kilobyte: i was thinking: the difference between a huge, gushing torrent of acid vs. a finer mist in a large cone 15:47:03 HangedMan: really? I haven't 15:47:50 IMO reskilling was always just a convenience to avoid victory dancing, and after 0.9 it became near-useless 15:47:53 kilobyte: you could also have it be OTR, like the spell, but more concentrated. that could be fun 15:48:23 olgreb's is... okay, almost of use nowadays 15:48:35 HangedMan: i feel like olgreb's should get the ignite poison treatment (doesn't hit you) 15:48:46 it's not strong enough for that to be a good drawback 15:49:17 I've heard of at least one good player using OTR + cure poison, which conveniently enough are both in the same book 15:49:49 casting cure poison or just regenerating it off is easier then the whole "screw you if you're two species or using certain spells" 15:49:51 well, even when rpois worked against it, it wasn't stellar except for a few places in the game (though it was still usable) 15:50:07 ...olgreb's ignores rPois what 15:50:19 HangedMan: new rPois is partial, i assume this applies to olgreb too 15:50:22 nope 15:50:28 oh, okay 15:50:30 partial rPois is for projectiles only 15:50:39 the recent buff was actually making it bloody stack 15:50:43 and melee 15:50:44 s|projectiles|projectiles and melee| 15:50:49 that's kind of weird 15:51:09 well, it'd be quite annoying if it applied to chunks 15:51:32 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 15:51:42 anyhow with the rod thing i think we should just own up and admit that what people want are 'guns that fire magic' 15:51:45 and design around that 15:52:00 I don't actually know what all partial rPois applies to but it is unimportant in all cases 15:52:02 fr rod of obstruction 15:52:12 fr conjure shotgun 15:52:26 fr napalmball 15:52:32 BlastHardcheese: one of the things i thought about doing to boost summ school was to have temporary item spells :) 15:52:46 iskenderun's napalm blast 15:53:13 something like shiren's fragile sword and fragile shield (extremely powerful but rot very fast in use) come to mind 15:55:06 03galehar * r5729a0d575f6 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Remove enchantment information from missile description. 15:56:13 re always making scrolls auto-id: this means you want to strip (except maybe for your weapon) before reading scrolls 15:56:47 remove curse is frequent enough to not make curse armour/jewellery *that* much dangerous 15:57:05 otoh curse armor and jewelry are irrelevant early on because you tend to not have anything to swap to 15:57:16 unless you get early gloves/cloak or something 15:57:23 resource optimal/safety optimal not food optimal or turn optimal or whatever 16:01:32 stripping doesn't take that much food or turns 16:02:08 yes but the danger of curse foo scrolls isn't much either so 16:02:23 curse armor can suck 16:02:34 and curse weapon is terrible 16:02:52 where "terrible" is "it costs you one ?rc" 16:03:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:03:19 but if you dont have ?rc by some stroke of bad luck, curse weapon is pretty bad 16:14:04 -!- gnsh has quit [] 16:19:18 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:02 -!- ark_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:38 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:45 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:59 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:23 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:38 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 16:55:37 -!- Pacra_ is now known as Pacra 17:13:01 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 17:22:21 -!- ark_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:46 -!- XnMojo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:46 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:32 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:53 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:26 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:02 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:35 -!- casmith789 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:36 03galehar * rd52d0508f811 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Add an alias functionality to database lookups. 18:10:37 03galehar * rada11009a081 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (fi/items.txt items.txt): Transifex sync. 18:12:15 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:37 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:27 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:28 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:55:52 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:15 -!- blmarket has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:22 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:02 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:48:42 -!- XnMojo has quit [Quit: XnMojo] 19:50:16 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:55 -!- rast has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:32 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:24:07 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:45 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:23 <|amethyst> Wensley: are you rebasing against latest master or do you want me to handle that? 20:41:55 <|amethyst> phyphor: "I thought she had children, but it turns out she momn't" 20:41:56 <|amethyst> doh 20:45:25 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:54 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:51 |amethyst: wanna teach me how to rebase? :P 20:49:24 <|amethyst> you've shared this branch before, right? 20:49:43 this is a new one because I wasn't sure how to pull master's changes into the old branch 20:49:49 <|amethyst> oh, good 20:50:24 <|amethyst> you don't want to rebase a branch that other people have cloned, because it changes history 20:50:24 but I forked from master about two weeks ago so rebasing is probably still necessary? 20:50:53 can I just say "rebase all changes that I've made to this branch since the last fork from master" 20:51:40 suppose I need to update master first 20:51:43 <|amethyst> yes... make sure master is up-to-date (should be ada1100), then check out the new branch and git rebase master 20:52:28 ada1100 was the name of the standard for the department of defense for the holy roman empire 20:52:40 <|amethyst> git fetch git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git master:master 20:52:43 what an incoherent joke 20:52:45 anyway 20:52:58 <|amethyst> I got it 20:53:05 you probably shouldn't have 20:53:22 is it better to pull master into my "index" in the supp2 branch rather than update the master branch 20:53:27 <|amethyst> the holy roman empire was neither holy, nor roman, nor Pascal-derived 20:54:02 <|amethyst> Wensley: I'm not sure what you mean by 'pull master into my "index"' 20:54:05 confess that I always pull rather than fetch 20:54:18 not even sure why one would use fetch 20:54:23 <|amethyst> fetch doesn't merge 20:54:30 so it just puts changes in your "index" 20:54:45 <|amethyst> no, it fast-forwards the branch 20:55:00 <|amethyst> if the update isn't a fast-forward it will complain rather than trying to merge 20:55:02 oh cool, so you mean do that fetch command in my supp2 branch 20:55:16 <|amethyst> doesn't matter what branch you're in 20:55:28 <|amethyst> that fetch command fetches master from the main repository into your master branch 20:55:39 well I have already done a pull for that 20:55:49 I am on ada1100 20:55:50 <|amethyst> oh, so master is ada1100 already? 20:55:53 <|amethyst> good 20:56:02 <|amethyst> now in your supp2 branch you can do git rebase master 20:56:18 <|amethyst> that will rewind to the common ancestor, fast-forward to master, then apply your diffs 20:56:19 is there a -i in there anywhere 20:56:22 oh cool 20:56:44 <|amethyst> you only need -i if you want to do things like re-ordering or combining your commits 20:56:57 <|amethyst> you will likely get conflicts when you do the rebase 20:57:06 indeed 20:57:11 in monsters.txt 20:57:20 probably some translations project shenanigans 20:57:23 <|amethyst> yeah 20:58:24 <|amethyst> so there you'd take the versions from master, except for your description 20:58:47 <|amethyst> when you've finished resolving them, git add path/to/monsters.txt then git rebase --continue 20:58:58 -!- ark____ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:47 cool 20:59:52 let me recompile and try it out 21:00:00 <|amethyst> you're rebased now? 21:00:06 <|amethyst> I was expecting more conflicts than that 21:00:08 yup 21:00:10 <|amethyst> yay 21:00:46 <|amethyst> merging works pretty much the same way, btw 21:01:08 <|amethyst> the difference is that you have a diamond-shaped rather than linear history after merging 21:01:33 yeah 21:01:38 honestly rebasing seems so much easier 21:01:46 <|amethyst> (and you don't break previous users of your branch, since the new version is a fast-forward of the old version) 21:10:42 oh wait... did I suppress weapon brands? 21:10:49 let me actually test that 21:10:52 oh wait 21:10:53 I did test it 21:10:58 memory 21:11:30 I am so good at this that I can't even remember doing it 21:12:22 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:18:07 |amethyst: https://gitorious.org/~wensleydale/crawl/wensleydale-crawl/commits/supp3 21:19:18 ??suppression[5] 21:19:19 suppression[5/5]: TODO: suppress evocable abilities; suppress\/defer equip messages; handle fixedarts; needs to affect monsters too 21:19:27 ah right, THAT was what I had in mind for next 21:19:31 the evocable thing 21:20:00 well still that is not nearly as important as passive weapon effects, but should still be addressed soon 21:21:08 <|amethyst> I don't know about increasing the radius by six more tiles 21:21:12 <|amethyst> it was already huge 21:21:23 |amethyst: just for testing, I swear! :) 21:21:52 I wanted to see what it was like if you were never in sight of the moth without having your whole LOS suppressed 21:22:07 the current radius is the minimum necessary to do that 21:23:12 <|amethyst> you're done with that testing now, right? 21:23:18 moar range 21:23:28 moth is mighty 21:23:34 must have range 21:23:50 |amethyst: well we're still testing it right now, so no! :) 21:24:00 <|amethyst> fine :P 21:24:16 if you do lower it, please no lower than 150 until I consult with evilmike about what he wants 21:24:28 but I think hilarious things belong in trunk 21:24:38 that is the allure of trunk, after all 21:24:43 <|amethyst> I'll leave it for now, but I know some devs thought 150 was already too large 21:24:43 free testers must be placated 21:25:01 with hilarious quasi-features 21:25:13 <|amethyst> 36x36 * pi/4 is nearly a quarter of the level 21:25:37 <|amethyst> hm, tiles problem 21:25:40 i've said that i dont want it to be that big 21:25:40 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:25:42 ? 21:25:50 <|amethyst> Error (dc-unrand.txt:101): couldn't load image 'urand_shadows'. 21:26:00 oh hm, should be unrand_shadows 21:26:13 was coding on a headless server so didn't do tiles 21:26:16 <|amethyst> sure? the image is urand_shadows.png 21:26:20 is it? 21:26:28 I pulled that name from some other unrand 21:26:32 arbitrarily 21:26:35 grep for shadows in that file 21:26:39 <|amethyst> oh, wrong directory 21:27:23 really those tiles are meaningless, it's just to get rid of those compiler warnings 21:27:31 choose whatever is convenient 21:29:18 evilmike: you said you didn't want it to be 150 big, but perhaps you secretly wanted it to be 300 big? :D 21:30:57 <|amethyst> hm 21:31:37 counter-hm 21:32:33 I think 150 (that's silent spectre-sized, right?) should be the maximum, I suspect anything larger is too large 21:33:05 150 is spectres, yes 21:34:52 evilmike, would a patch adding the transparent tag to a ton of vaults be an okay thing to spend time on? 21:35:00 <|amethyst> Wensley: using bloodlust 21:35:14 <|amethyst> Wensley: (it has to be an amulet tile) 21:35:22 I see 21:35:26 it is annoying to use X> on a glass_serial level and getting like twenty hatches 21:35:59 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 21:38:32 HangedMan: if the vault is surrounded by floor, it should be ok to make it transparent. I don't know about other vaults, you'll have to ask someone who knows more 21:38:49 serial_glass is the one that places glass pillars everywhere, so it should be alright. 21:38:53 k' 21:38:58 that's the cause of millions of hatches on every floor, right? 21:39:08 something like that, yes 21:39:09 if so i would approve of a fixing it! 21:39:15 of fixing* 21:39:27 I would approve of anything that reduces the number of hatches, yes 21:39:29 <|amethyst> even if it's not surrounded by floor, it should be okay 21:39:29 wensley go hyper-condense yet another git patch summary thing 21:39:30 there are a ton of vaults surrounded by floor which should be safe to make transparent 21:39:47 almost all of them are in mini_monsters.des and mini_features.des 21:39:48 HangedMan: now that I have learned how to rebase, my days of hyper-condensing are over 21:40:05 so it will take twenty-million years instead? 21:40:24 who is that aimed at 21:40:25 <|amethyst> "transparent" does actual continuity checks, so if the vault does disconnect the level that will still happen 21:40:43 HangedMan: do you have git installed? if so, making a patch is pretty easy 21:40:56 which one was it... 21:41:11 hm, in that case adding transparent to a million vaults definitely sounds good 21:41:39 this is either msysgit or git bash, I can't tell which 21:42:02 <|amethyst> s/nuit/guit/ 21:42:10 it's the same for both. Just make your edits and then use git format-patch to make it nice and easy to apply 21:42:18 k 21:42:42 there's a file somehwere in docs/develop that will tell you the details 21:43:36 oh, here's something related. If a ton of vaults are getting 'transparent', I think a ton of vaults should get 'mini_float' as well 21:44:17 also logical 21:45:16 |amethyst, so adding transparent to uninterrupted corridors is just as fine as vaults with a ring of floor, right 21:46:01 <|amethyst> HangedMan: unless I'm terribly mistaken, adding transparent should almost always be safe 21:46:06 'k 21:46:29 <|amethyst> I guess it wouldn't be okay on something with lua grid-changing magic 21:46:50 <|amethyst> or if you want the player to be able to bypass the vault 21:48:16 shouldn't be too much of a concern on the mini_features and mini_monsters vaults I am looking at but will keep it in mind 21:48:33 <|amethyst> might be for some of the mini_monsters vaults 21:49:51 <|amethyst> e.g. not_minivault_9_due 21:50:10 <|amethyst> that should probably not be transparent :) 21:50:15 well yes 21:50:16 I also wouldn't tag statue vaults and stuff like that 21:51:05 the monster statue vaults? 21:51:21 <|amethyst> like minivault_16 ? 21:51:48 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:25 yeah 21:53:40 I figure if it puts up an autoexclusion, it's not really transparent 21:53:48 fair point 21:55:23 <|amethyst> okay, this radius is completely insane 21:56:33 <|amethyst> taking that back down to 150 before pushing 21:59:49 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 22:00:39 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:07:37 -!- XnMojo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:21 -!- nrook_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:33 -!- nrook has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:12:35 -!- nrook_ is now known as nrook 22:13:08