00:04:10 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:14:33 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs.] 00:20:09 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1764-g8b3edee 00:24:37 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:18 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:27 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:29:28 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 00:34:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:12 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:23 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:47:44 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:58:10 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 01:01:18 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 01:09:57 !tell kilobyte I just raised fighting to 4.9 (while not training any other skills) and identified the plusses on a blowgun this way... surely it should use throwing? 01:09:57 elliptic: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 01:22:09 03dolorous * r0be3160fbb46 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Fix wording. 01:37:22 -!- clouded_ has quit [] 01:49:18 -!- SkaryMonk has left ##crawl-dev 02:05:52 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:48 -!- [1]capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:05 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:07:09 -!- [1]capablanca is now known as mikee_ 02:08:16 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:21 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:54 -!- SkaryMonk1 is now known as SkaryWonk 02:15:10 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:34 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:25 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:07 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:22 crate the Anemomancer (L27 DrPr) ASSERT(branch >= 0 && branch < NUM_BRANCHES) in 'branch.cc' at line 50 failed on turn 103115. (Hell) 02:51:58 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:08 elliptic: looking back at l_item_do_subtype I fail to see where the info leak is. There is a test for item_type_known. 02:54:50 lua_pushnumber(ls, item->sub_type); 02:55:07 that line is not inside the item_type_known check 02:55:26 (line 356) 02:55:38 oh right 02:55:55 and git blamed me for that? 02:56:14 we really shouldn't be returning an enum value anyway even if it wasn't a leak :) 02:56:29 true 02:56:50 ok, I'll have a look into it 03:01:50 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:39 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:17 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:46 -!- Snowclone has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:10:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:34 -!- XnMojo has quit [Quit: XnMojo] 04:13:23 the only call to subtype that I could find is the one I added in stash.lua, and it doesn't use the second returned value 04:13:40 seems to be safe to just remove it 04:18:27 -!- alefury has quit [] 04:26:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:56 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:34:27 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:42:24 03galehar * r65fc5835909f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/lua/stash.lua l_item.cc): Fix a lua info leak. 04:42:24 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.10 * r2f61b06e51c5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/lua/stash.lua l_item.cc): Fix a lua info leak. 04:51:13 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:42 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:58:29 <|amethyst> test 04:58:56 <|amethyst> !tell amethyst you're missing your bar 04:58:57 |amethyst: OK, I'll let amethyst know. 04:58:59 <|amethyst> test 04:58:59 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:59:03 <|amethyst> !messages 04:59:29 <|amethyst> well, messages to me half-work 04:59:37 (1/1) |amethyst said (41s ago): you're missing your bar 04:59:41 <|amethyst> there we go 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1765-g0be3160 05:01:50 <|amethyst> !tell alefury the description there isn't produced by 'monster'... not sure where the code for the info page is, though 05:01:51 |amethyst: OK, I'll let alefury know. 05:02:13 <|amethyst> !tell alefury Napkin probably knows 05:02:13 |amethyst: OK, I'll let alefury know. 05:07:56 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:31 -!- headzone has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:13 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 05:37:21 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:44 hmm. 05:47:58 this is probably caused by the fact that descriptions are now column wrapped in the source. 06:03:15 if so, it was broken before, as some monsters had wrapped descs, and far more have multiple paragraphs separated by empty lines 06:03:15 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 06:05:39 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:06:50 elliptic: how did you notice the lua leak? Were there players abusing it to id items? 06:07:41 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:11:22 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:11:28 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:12:21 galehar: print_description() uses menu code, right? How to enable colour there, then? 06:14:30 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:56 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:21 03kilobyte * r2107308a3de6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/FAQ.txt util/FAQ2html.pl): Make the HTMLized FAQ resemble HTML. 06:16:31 03kilobyte * r36edc7f26d3a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/FAQ.txt database.cc): Separate bulleted items in FAQ entries by empty lines in the source. 06:16:32 03kilobyte * r67b16a19f144 10/crawl-ref/source/util/FAQ2html.pl: Fix https:// links not being hyperlinked. 06:16:32 03kilobyte * r1a5a8f68f969 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc libutil.cc menu.cc menu.h): Nicer wrapping for the FAQ. 06:16:32 03kilobyte * rbfc1bd67ab13 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Slightly simplify. 06:16:32 03kilobyte * re42bd4bd5532 10/crawl-ref/source/util/FAQ2html.pl: Fix URLs not being enclosed in quotation marks. 06:16:33 03kilobyte * r8330b58e7105 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/FAQ.txt: Replace the rest of http:// with https:// 06:16:55 I don't think it uses menu code. But it could 06:19:58 refactoring descriptions to make them use PrecisionMenu would allow us to put a tile in there and to turn the inventory action prompts into clickable buttons 06:21:48 New branch created: wip-coloured-FAQ (1 commit) 06:21:51 I just pushed the coloured FAQ (instead of *italic* and 'bold') to a new branch. 06:21:57 not a high-priority thing, though 06:22:21 in other news, the FAQ should be compatible with Transifex now 06:23:53 there are three special cases: bulleted lists ("* " at the start of a line), *italic* (spaces allowed) and 'bold' (no spaces), not sure how to tell translators about these 06:24:36 I guess, it might be simpler to use something HTML-like like colours instead 06:31:02 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:20 -!- rawrmage has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:34:00 having the same syntax for colours and style would probably be better. Not a big deal though. 06:34:50 I need to write a doc about translations. Will explain the transifex workflow, and also formatting rules and such. 06:38:13 03kilobyte * rd0ba6f3863b2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/FAQ.txt util/FAQ2html.pl): Allow translating the FAQ title as well. 06:47:06 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:47 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:16 galehar: util/text-wrap.pl converts all newlines to Mac OS 9 style ones, is that intentional? 06:59:03 nope. It's messy and I don't use it anymore. I intended to remove it and forgot. Do you need it? 07:02:21 not really, I wanted to force re-wrapping of some quote that got mangled 07:02:29 (after a manual edit) 07:02:48 make tx-check 07:02:57 converts to transifex and back 07:03:05 handling wrapping 07:09:35 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:11 03kilobyte * r9b5db955d27a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (items.txt quotes.txt): Transifex format fixes. 07:14:12 03kilobyte * r7de84f1062f6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/pl/quotes.txt: A few .pl quotes. 07:16:07 <|amethyst> galehar: so if I wanted to include the Spanish original of the quote for toenail golem, how would I do that (or what should I read)? 07:16:20 <|amethyst> do I need to join the Spanish translation team? 07:16:48 somehow the web interface doesn't show the horn of Geryon -- it has a .pl quote but no .en one 07:17:52 |amethyst: no doc yet. Yes, join the spanish team and do it online. 07:18:07 <|amethyst> I don't speak Spanish, though 07:18:08 of course, you can also just edit the files and commit them directly :) 07:18:11 (I did it locally then pushed) 07:18:55 spanish looks well ahead 07:19:02 needs a bit of polish though 07:19:22 polish is close second :) 07:19:24 <|amethyst> absolutego: that second sentence confused me greatly 07:19:28 <|amethyst> :) 07:19:31 heh 07:20:21 <|amethyst> Dobras días 07:20:46 |amethyst: if you want, I can make you project maintainer on transifex. Allows you to edit all languages and mess with source files 07:20:54 quotes are the bottleneck, right? 07:21:23 absolutego: not really. They are a nice addition, not a prerequisite 07:22:01 what'll you do, not display them if there's no appropriate translation? 07:23:47 kilobyte: there is a quote entry for the horn of geryon in quotes 07:24:16 absolutego: yes. Or put the english one, like we do for the rest of the text. 07:26:28 <|amethyst> so the things with "english" translations... what's up with that? 07:26:37 i'll actually apply to the team, if only to correct a couple of mistakes 07:28:08 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:32 <|amethyst> most of them seem to be identical to the "english (australian)", but at least one has some comma updates 07:33:18 maybe it has possi instead of quokkas 07:34:18 <|amethyst> "possi"? 07:34:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opossum 07:35:20 <|amethyst> I was going to say: even if the word were Latin, that wouldn't be the plural; and how would that be de-Australification anyway 07:35:40 <|amethyst> but I guess the Virginia opossum works 07:35:47 i actually looked it up 07:35:59 i usually just append the s and call it a day 07:36:03 |amethyst: the english translation if for users to submit improvement to the original text 07:36:15 it has nothing to do with british grammar 07:36:21 <|amethyst> galehar: oh, right, because only admins can edit the original 07:36:26 yes 07:36:35 <|amethyst> galehar: so when something looks exactly the same it's because it's been merged? 07:36:43 yes 07:36:48 <|amethyst> is there some way to automatically remove those translations? 07:36:55 <|amethyst> once they've been merged 07:37:14 there are a few differences, because there was some little fixes, and I need to update a script to push them to transifex 07:37:56 |amethyst: on the other hand, keeping them allows us to see which ones have already been improved, and to focus on others 07:38:04 <|amethyst> I guess that's true 07:38:22 transifex is surprisingly nice 07:38:36 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 07:39:03 Apportation probably doesn't need the remark about the Orb anymore, it shrieks in all cases anyway. 07:39:05 the command line client is great and it has allowed me to do a lot of automation 07:39:59 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:40:31 i'll give it a go once macports stop compiling stuff (probably next wednesday) 07:40:48 cool 07:41:21 the web interface is pretty nice already, though 07:42:20 on my side, still todo: tweak a script to allows updating the english "translations" when they are changed in git, import the rest of the DTIT google spreadsheet into transifex, write the doc 07:43:07 <|amethyst> galehar: how do I insert a tab? 07:43:17 when translating online, don't forget to activate "verbose editing" to see key names (in the general setting thingy in the lower right) 07:43:38 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:41 |amethyst: a tab? Type space 4 times! 07:44:08 <|amethyst> oh, when I see the blue bar in the original that's a leading space, not a tab 07:44:11 <|amethyst> okay 07:45:06 where are the names of monsters, spells, items, etc? (as oppposed to the descriptions) 07:45:34 <|amethyst> absolutego: what galehar just said 07:45:40 in the extended super ultra professional view that's incredibly well-hidden in the tx settings 07:45:43 absolutego: translating names isn't supported 07:46:08 yet 07:46:30 but that's the funniest part! ;) 07:46:46 definitely not fun to code 07:46:53 needs to handle gender and plural. it's complicated. 07:47:13 I guess it should be quite high on kilobyte's todo ;) 07:47:30 i know it's hard, i'm surprised you're even trying 07:48:02 <|amethyst> galehar: don't forget case 07:48:26 well, that wouldn't make much sense to translate only descriptions if we didn't intend to do a full translation 07:48:41 i meant translating any of it, of course 07:48:45 it's commendable, but so much work 07:49:35 well, it's really kilobyte's idea and coding. I'm only handling transifex interface. 07:50:16 and yes, I was surprised also when I realised he was serious about it :) 07:50:24 i can't find the verbosity thingy on the web interface, where is it? 07:50:30 kilobyte: <3 07:51:03 absolutego: it's only visible when translating, not when just viewing strings (which is a PITA) 07:51:15 -!- SkaryWonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:23 absolutego: have you clicked "Translate Now"? 07:51:39 Ah, the OOD stuff kicks in at 10k turns? 07:51:42 hrm 07:51:44 wrong channel 07:51:56 absolutego: it's a huge complex project, I'm afraid 07:52:27 galehar: this reminds me, do you have any ideas how to do grammar tables in transifex? 07:52:40 i see it now, thanks 07:52:46 some are restricted to a single language 07:52:50 i thought it was a general setting 07:53:31 most such tables could be shoehorned into a common set of keys somehow, if we put multiple properties into one line 07:53:35 absolutego: no, you have to activate it each time. I've put a FR about it. 07:54:14 kilobyte: a grammar table is for gender/plurals? 07:54:40 like, Polish needs the grammatic gender, plural, and declension for every noun case 07:55:48 something like: "orc" -> "ork|m|orki|orka|orkowi|orka|orkiem|orkiem" (and I'm not sure if I can weasel out of cases for plurals) 07:56:18 would be far better to have it shown as a table, to be honest 07:57:20 kilobyte: I'll have a look. 07:59:05 in Polish, at least grammatic gender can be simply guessed from the noun, but only if the code knows which word is the noun 07:59:40 <|amethyst> with most languages you can greatly reduce the size of the plat if you drop a few exceptions 07:59:54 kilobyte: but presumably crawl will have a very specific lexicon? 08:00:04 feminine words end with -a, neuter with -o, and only a handful of exceptions, mostly in foreign words 08:00:05 <|amethyst> e.g. with English nouns your table is much smaller if you don't include the personal pronouns 08:00:07 kilobyte: "verb_or_noun_or_adjective(word)"? 08:00:17 <|amethyst> due: that can't work 08:00:19 okay 08:00:24 <|amethyst> due: which is "fun" ? 08:00:30 due: yeah, the lexicon is why a table wouldn't be an overbearing amount of work 08:00:46 |amethyst: i meant within a strictly defined crawl context 08:01:07 due: is "gold" a noun or an adjective? 08:01:23 gold is a noun, but gold is an adjective. 08:01:29 they're homonyms. 08:01:36 or whatever the word is for a word that has multiple grammatical roels 08:01:40 but i see your point 08:02:32 I think I could try a bunch of heurestics, and special-case the rest 08:02:53 either via a table (if there's many of them) or via code (like English pluralization) 08:03:17 <|amethyst> fully gloss them in the source 08:03:22 <|amethyst> :) 08:03:30 * due glosses |amethyst's face. 08:03:41 pluralise() is 120 lines long for English 08:04:27 heck, I thought Polish is ridiculously irregular, but I wonder if it will take less space than that 08:07:35 i'm afraid of seeing german 08:07:36 really 08:08:54 <|amethyst> I imagine German would need a table 08:09:33 <|amethyst> maybe not if you're willing to be as crawl-specific as the English version 08:10:01 120 lines? wtf? really? 08:10:11 <|amethyst> else if (ends_with(name, "mosquito") || ends_with(name, "ss")) return name + "es"; 08:12:24 <|amethyst> it also pluralises "Bigfoot" as "Bigfeet" 08:12:34 <|amethyst> oh, no it doesn't, that's just == 08:12:55 ChrisOelmueller: for german, it's quite easy. apart from some nouns where you can determine the plural from the singular (for example nouns ending in -heit), there are no rules. you need to have two data points for singular and plural forms (latin is similar, although there the declination is determined by the nominative singular and genitive singular forms). 08:16:37 does German have any semblance of regularity for grammatical genders? 08:16:50 I mean, is there a way to determine it based on the word in question? 08:17:03 not for all 08:18:01 Polish for one has that -a for feminine thingy. It's so deeply ingrained into the language that most translations change names, like: Shelob -> Szeloba, Galadriel -> Galadriela, Ungoliant -> Ungolianta, etc 08:18:12 is 3-floor elf a final thing or just for testing? 08:18:15 there are some endings that have a fixed gender, but then there are even words that have 3 different meaning depending on what gender they have :) 08:18:26 (3 or 4 i guess) 08:18:28 bhaak: :p 08:19:07 absolutego: with multi-level sprints, I guess it's time to converge the two game modes :p 08:20:27 kilobyte: OTOH you don't need a complete general solution. crawl will not use every word there is and so it's possible to code up a solution. or just use a table where the data is stored (that's what i did for nethack-de). 08:20:32 <|amethyst> http://www.polishforums.com/grammar-usage-18/polish-nouns-unpredictable-gender-40814/ 08:20:36 take some levels off vaults while you're at it 08:20:57 <|amethyst> identifies 62, most of them names 08:22:04 <|amethyst> actually, some posts there list more than 62, most of them common nouns 08:22:14 <|amethyst> "common" in the technical sense 08:23:52 galehar: I don't know of anyone who was abusing it, though I tested locally that it was abusable. I just ran across it while working on improving my own rcfile (with lua-enhanced autopickup) 08:24:22 ok 08:27:39 |amethyst: interesting that some foreigners can spot rules a native dismisses as tabled exceptions :p 08:28:13 <|amethyst> I think it's more "linguists" than "foreigners" :) 08:37:32 -!- rawrmage has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:21 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:51 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:58 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:24:52 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:14 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:41 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:46:22 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:42 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:49 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:05 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:26 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 10:08:26 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:09 CarbonBasedLifeform the Talismancer (L27 SpVM), worshipper of Cheibriados, the effects of Hell on Dis:7, with 823333 points after 58876 turns and 12:03:33. 10:20:13 FR make that a sentence 10:31:35 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1776-g7de84f1 (33) 11:12:17 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:18:09 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:58 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:44:37 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:47:02 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:39 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:00:24 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 12:01:07 i the effects of Hell and all i this lousy t-shirt 12:03:43 hm, CDO hasn't updated in nearly three days 12:04:31 kilobyte: any chance your manual updates of CDO broke the autoupdater? 12:06:47 (it would be good to get the fix for the spammy Pan milestones) 12:10:07 -!- XnMojo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:58 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:36 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:49 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 12:17:14 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:44 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:52 elliptic: there was a merge conflict between some trunk changes and CDO scripts (which are a series on commits added on top) 12:28:52 uh, is it just me, or is Mantis only showing 10 issues from months back 12:29:27 works for me, I guess you have some filter set 12:29:36 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1776-g7de84f1 (33) 12:29:36 just you 12:30:31 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php This is the page i should be looking at, right? 12:30:50 yes, but it remembers filter settings from your last visit 12:31:14 including ones that might be hidden (basic/advanced view) 12:31:30 try selecting "reset filter" from the dropdown on the right then clicking "use filter" 12:32:06 hmm, Reset Filter Worked 12:32:31 don't remember using any the last time i was bored and wandering through bug reports, but we 12:38:20 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1776-g7de84f1 12:38:49 ussdefiant_: sometimes mantis settings change for me without my doing 12:39:02 must be some kind of poltergeist at work 12:39:32 ...is the CIA bot broken again so we don't know what's in these new builds? 12:39:34 alefury: Your employer put something in the router to mess with you :P 12:39:39 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10.2-37-g2f61b06 (32) 12:39:43 i dont mean "at work" 12:40:19 ussdefiant_: no, they were stuck for a different reasons 12:40:21 ussdefiant_: cia doesnt have anything to do with those builds, it just announced commits 12:40:41 ah 12:40:44 so you have to read the backlog or look at the git log to find out whats in the builds 12:41:08 incidentally, i love whoever it was that put in wield-ID for weapons 12:41:16 alefury: actually, they pull from the same repository. Gitorious doesn't provide push notifications, so there's a cronjob on CDO that regularly polls it, and then notifies CIA. 12:41:53 i know, what i meant is CIA doesnt announce builds and whats in them, just commits 12:41:57 Nuthulu (L6 TeHe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1094 failed. (D (Sprint)) 12:42:14 ussdefiant_: I still catch myself bashing folks with a new weapon to try to use-id it 12:42:37 ye still have to do it with weapons you have no skill in, which is still by far an improvement 12:42:44 yeah, and only actual builds were stuck 12:43:04 ussdefiant_: no, if you have no skill they won't ever use-id 12:43:39 and if you have low skill, bashing monsters more will do no good, you need to increase the skill (or burn a scroll) 12:43:56 ohh, was use-ID essentially removed, then? 12:44:11 i thought you still had it if your skill was, like, 3.0 or something 12:44:13 mostly replaced 12:44:26 you can throw stuff to identify the brand i think 12:44:38 or maybe not. i dont know. 12:44:57 there is one remnant: ammo enchantment 12:46:30 but since ammo will go anyways, fixing that isn't worth any trouble? 12:46:36 * ChrisOelmueller gets his hopes high 12:46:38 elliptic suggested to remove plusses on ammo altogether, which would remove the whole issue, but it's a far bigger balance change than I feel comfortable doing without further research 12:46:50 ChrisOelmueller: ammo will go? eh? 12:47:10 oh, start with the pluses, that's fine as well 12:47:11 ChrisOelmueller: there is a proposal to remove ammo _enchantment_ 12:47:55 fr: remove ordinary ammo, allow any object to be used as ammo 12:48:05 pretty sure there also are proposals to remove ammo :-) 12:48:23 so longbows are presumed to come with quivers of infinite ammo, then? 12:48:36 but that sounds good .. would require damage tweaks i guess 12:48:38 way, way, WAY below my personal willing suspension of disbelief threshold 12:48:39 no, just no ammo 12:48:49 you get a longbow but never find arrows 12:49:13 quick question: is there a way to change the glyph of certain items (like shields, but not other armours?) 12:49:17 this makes yaktaurs much more pleasant to deal with :D 12:49:33 Pacra: no, and I'd really wish there was. Just never got around to it. 12:49:42 because that would be amazing. 12:49:55 Pacra: care to implement it and submit a patch? :) 12:49:55 I have my unicode thetas all ready to go :[ 12:50:07 sure. ....how would i go about doing such a thing 12:50:27 * kilobyte ponders þwarves. 12:50:34 haha 12:52:34 ah, i'll have to read the cdo git guide 12:52:43 i'm an svn baby 12:55:07 <|amethyst> âš— should be something 12:55:50 <|amethyst> and â›„ for ice beasts 12:56:23 i cant see that last one :( 12:56:28 <|amethyst> it's a snowman 12:56:29 is it a snowflake? 12:56:30 ah 12:57:20 <|amethyst> â˜ for curse skulls 12:57:43 <|amethyst> And â™˜ for orc knights 13:04:10 <|amethyst> hm... double-width characters don't work 13:04:26 <|amethyst> I mean, are specifically disallowed 13:04:30 <|amethyst> which makes sense I guess 13:04:36 <|amethyst> no â›² for fountains 13:06:13 they're fucked up in Chatzilla too 13:06:27 the Skull/Knight ones worked, though 13:07:13 <|amethyst> those are single-width I think 13:07:23 <|amethyst> at least they appear to be here 13:07:28 <|amethyst> likewise the alembic 13:08:01 <|amethyst> though it makes me think of an octorok 13:08:02 i only got the Skull/Knight, the other three were messed up 13:08:20 <|amethyst> it's probably not in many fonts :) 13:08:50 <|amethyst> U+2697 ALEMBIC 13:09:43 <|amethyst> (it only really looks like an oktorok in dejavu/vera) 13:09:59 <|amethyst> actually, the one at unicode.org does too 13:10:02 <|amethyst> http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=2697 13:10:10 <|amethyst> oh 13:10:11 the alembic worked for me 13:10:13 <|amethyst> that's not an image 13:10:55 my encoding is UTF-8, what're you/that site using? 13:11:39 <|amethyst> I'm using UTF-8 13:11:53 <|amethyst> your font probably doesn't have some of those characters 13:12:07 eh, it's WinXP 13:12:49 winxp is no font 13:13:01 <|amethyst> http://graphemica.com/%E2%9A%97/glyphs/dejavu-sans-book is a picture of what it looks like in my font 13:13:06 OS, no idea where to find what font's it's using 13:13:35 nice url 13:13:46 i like the browser rendering the char in there 13:13:56 wonder if firefox/chrome/... do that too 13:14:03 <|amethyst> chromium does 13:14:05 âš— is interesting 13:14:15 the others are too faint or not in this font 13:14:43 (this font being the default font for gnome-terminal) 13:14:58 <|amethyst> probably dejavu; same here in this size 13:15:11 <|amethyst> there is also a filled-in snowman and knight, but not skull afaik 13:15:36 i got everything but the supposed fountain here 13:15:46 seems to think it's called "monospace" 13:15:48 * Zannick shrugs 13:15:56 plain Sans 13:16:01 <|amethyst> which means your system's default monospace font 13:16:40 <|amethyst> dejavu sans mono on most GNOME system 13:16:52 <|amethyst> s 13:17:38 <|amethyst> which is based on bitstream vera sans mono, but with more unicode coverage 13:18:24 i could switch to unifont to inspect the missing glyph but doubt that's worth it :o 13:19:15 new imb is overpowered and also less fun 13:20:10 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: graphemica.com doesn't have a character image for it either; it's U+26F2 13:20:12 i havent used it yet, how often does it go boom? 13:21:02 quite often 13:21:21 the way it explodes also feels backwards 13:23:55 i thought it doesnt explode backwards? 13:24:03 :P 13:25:57 it feels like it should be more likely to explode at range, but the explosion should hit you too 13:26:25 rather than the explosion not harming you and being likely at short range 13:26:50 the explosion hitting you just makes it awful and annoying 13:26:52 the problem with allowing backwards explosions was that it was optimal to aim IMB behind the enemy. so if you missed, the explosion could still hit them. 13:27:27 why was it even made to explode? it ends up just feeling like 'this spell is fireball some of the time' 13:27:38 because it was boring? 13:27:40 and iood is effective at long range so the idea was for imb to be the opposite 13:28:27 because explosions 13:29:07 i don't see how that makes sense though 13:29:16 one of the reasons people don't use iood is that stuff like popcorn summons block it 13:29:26 a spell that was more likely to explode at range would be a great iood counterpart 13:29:59 iood exploding at short range just lets you kill stuff easily at short range, much more easily than you used to be able to 13:30:07 er, imb 13:30:21 one of the reasons people dont use iood is that people like corridors. 13:30:33 alefury: even when not fighting in corridors it's not so good 13:30:45 its pretty okay actually 13:30:59 long range, irresistible, hit rate is independent of enemy ev 13:31:08 well most of the things you'd want to fight with it will summon 13:31:11 that makes it pretty useful against some nasty stuff 13:31:21 which makes it rather irritating to use 13:31:28 orbs of fire, greater nagas, tentacled monstrosities, etc 13:32:17 anyways, if they are going to be paired spells, 'this is the short range one and this is the long range one' is a pretty crappy pairing 13:32:39 how about this is the good one (imb) and this is the not so good one (iood)? 13:32:46 :) 13:33:13 also not a good pairing :( 13:33:55 <|amethyst> â˜ for curse skulls 13:33:56 haha 13:34:12 Cannot find Vaults entrance (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5661) by moosecow 13:34:15 i tried to use the unicode extended chinese glyph for 'altar' for altars 13:34:22 but it was doublewidth and looked stupid :[ 13:35:50 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4535 anyone have a good suggestion for a way to actually indicate that you take more damage from acid with empty armour slots? 13:36:22 Ye Feel Uncovered? 13:36:42 <|amethyst> "The acid burns your bare skin!" when you take extra 13:36:45 would have to be a message of some sort when you take acid damage, i guess 13:36:46 yeah 13:36:55 <|amethyst> might need adjustment for some things 13:37:01 <|amethyst> e.g. mummies, statues, ... 13:37:21 scales, fur, ... 13:37:38 <|amethyst> does fur count as armour for acid purposes? 13:37:39 just have it do the same damage 13:37:40 <|amethyst> it should 13:37:57 nothing else works like that in crawl 13:38:04 and there is no reason why this should 13:38:32 <|amethyst> I guess the idea is to give you a reason not to just take your armour off 13:38:48 <|amethyst> but really it means wearing a set of junk armour 13:38:50 since this will only ever matter in slime (or for low level characters who had bad luck), and you will always find a bunch of cloaks/gloves/etc. you don't care about getting to -2 13:39:41 it also matters for races that lack armor slots 13:39:50 slime is much harder for them 13:39:54 Your horns burn! 13:40:01 <|amethyst> my first time in slime was a felid 13:40:16 acid blobs must have been terrifying 13:40:18 <|amethyst> I had haunt, though, so it wasn't too bad 13:40:20 (more terrifying) 13:40:21 my first time in slime was a mountain dwarf 13:40:37 <|amethyst> haunt against TRJ was great 13:41:09 <|amethyst> I probably tormented first, don't remember 13:41:22 note that races with less slots also usually have less AC so they'll still take more slime damage 13:41:40 can we ditch the non-regeneration on TRJ? 13:41:41 elliptic? 13:41:48 D: 13:41:58 <|amethyst> alefury: wouldn't that make him farmable? 13:42:06 the jellies dont give exp 13:42:07 you don't get xp from the spawns 13:42:09 and then there's weirdness with stuff like dracs who have scales stronger than torso armor for other races yet take a penalty if they aren't wearing it 13:42:09 <|amethyst> ah 13:42:20 I don't see a reason for the non-regen, yeah 13:42:37 i think it's mostly flavor 13:42:37 would make him running away actually meaningful, i guess 13:42:39 not that stairscumming it is really a very safe strategy 13:42:44 <|amethyst> does regen scale with speed? 13:43:59 new mimics feel way too strong by the way 13:44:08 Eronarn: i agree 13:44:21 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:21 |amethyst: felids have fur (nowhere as good a cloaks + armour, but still way from naked). But octopodes there = oy vey gevalt. 13:52:37 s/cloaks/cloak/ 13:54:14 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:33 kilobyte: uncovered skin taking more damage is already accounted for by uncovered skin having less AC 13:59:00 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:07 fr jelly form 14:05:36 so you can eat shit and die? :P 14:05:52 just kidding, btw 14:07:19 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:24 does acid damage check AC? 14:08:56 I thought most sources of it bypass AC 14:09:00 why is there a vault with three orc priests and an altar of okawaru 14:09:45 maybe theyre descrating the altar 14:09:55 maybe theyre orc priests of oka? 14:09:56 <|amethyst> orcawaru 14:10:04 <|amethyst> alefury: how do they smite? 14:10:13 orc power! 14:10:40 im sure any god can smite if you just ask nicely 14:10:55 -!- ussdefiant__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:56 maybe it was a bonus, for switching from beogh 14:11:06 like, a little incentive to ease the transition 14:11:46 if you make an "orc priest god:okawaru" it will smite you with okawaru themed messages. I'd be surprised if a vault actually does this 14:12:11 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:12:18 <|amethyst> _ = altar_beogh / w:1 altar_okawaru / w:1 altar_makhleb / w:1 altar_trog 14:12:37 -!- ussdefiant_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:42 <|amethyst> the priests don't have their religion specified 14:13:11 theres also a bailey with orcs and a non-beogh altar 14:13:22 orcs can be non-beogh, but orc priests can't 14:13:56 could give them haste and might if they spawn with an oka altar, wiglaf style :) 14:14:42 3 mini wiglafs, and a redefined monster that is simply called orc priest. the ultimate newbie trap :) 14:15:02 I think if you enslave an orc priest w/ yred it will smite with yred messages 14:15:09 but that's a specral orc priest 14:15:24 well, the only god im pretty sure is not going to smite anyone is ash 14:15:42 -!- ussdefiant__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:15:45 all the others can probably smite just fine, they just dont provide that service to most followers 14:16:26 it would be good to get monster definitions able to specify what the source of their abilities are 14:16:32 this has caused all kinds of similar problems 14:16:41 <|amethyst> you can sort of 14:16:55 it would be good for silence and antimagic 14:16:58 <|amethyst> you can specify the god, and actual_spells vs priestly_spells vs none of the above 14:17:10 especially relating to nagas and draconians 14:17:20 |amethyst: it's something that should happen at the monster definition level, for each ability 14:17:41 like priests that also have spells 14:17:45 <|amethyst> Eronarn: oh, I see 14:18:09 <|amethyst> Eronarn: so put one of those flags on each spell 14:18:31 |amethyst: we'd need to duplicate stuff like smite that can be a god ability or not 14:18:49 or more importantly, an innate ability vs. a spell 14:18:56 <|amethyst> Eronarn: not if you specify it in the monster spell list rather than in the spell itself 14:19:11 yeah, that would work too 14:19:23 make the monster spellbooks {SPELL, SOURCE} rather than {SPELL} 14:20:03 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:42 it would make henzell listings hard though... 14:21:51 <|amethyst> and mon specs 14:21:52 since a monster could be silenceable for its magic, but not some other ability 14:22:19 <|amethyst> I guess you could keep the current flags, and use that as the default if unspecified 14:23:20 <|amethyst> so orc priest spells:pain=spell,minor_healing=innate,smiting where smiting=priest 14:23:29 <|amethyst> priestly 14:24:02 <|amethyst> and whatever cantrip should be 14:24:04 that reminds me, i need to submit a patch fixing orc priests 14:24:11 You'd want it to use the default if unspecified, since you wouldn't need to specify it for 99% of cases 14:24:20 <|amethyst> yeah 14:24:55 <|amethyst> FR: a set of priest monsters for each of the gods 14:24:59 <|amethyst> I know some already exist 14:25:24 <|amethyst> not sure how a priest of sif would work, other than random spells 14:25:25 I've thought that would be cool as well. I tried to come up with ideas a while ago, but some gods are hard 14:25:32 <|amethyst> ash = ??? 14:25:45 <|amethyst> can always pathfind to you? 14:25:46 with ash I thought of a monster that can see through walls, but I suspect the gameplay effect would be tiny 14:25:54 unless it was given some nasty melee abilities or spells 14:25:59 <|amethyst> and knows your resistances 14:26:08 well, there was mumra's demigod thingy 14:26:21 which generates random champions of gods for you to fight 14:26:29 or would have, if it had ever been finished 14:26:37 could also make it a generic "Priest" enemy with a random god, just like generic "Wizards" have a random spellbook 14:26:40 ash: mummy with cursed armor and cursed greatsword 14:27:25 i like the idea of some mummies being cursed because they had been ash worshipers when he was imprisoned 14:27:28 <|amethyst> mummies are MONUSE_NOTHING :( 14:27:37 mumra's thing would actually have a lot of applications, could be used for altar vaults, zig rooms, that demigod thing... 14:27:48 <|amethyst> err, MONUSE_OPEN_DOORS rather 14:28:11 |amethyst: one of the higher level mummies, i mean 14:28:44 @??guardian mummy 14:28:45 guardian mummy (08M) | Spd: 9 | Int: normal (items) | HD: 7 | HP: 36-56 | AC/EV: 6/9 | Dam: 30 | Fl: 07undead, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(46), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 367. 14:28:48 <|amethyst> yeah 14:28:55 guardian mummy (08M) | Spd: 9 | Int: normal | HD: 7 | HP: 36-56 | AC/EV: 6/9 | Dam: 30 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(46), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 367. 14:28:55 <|amethyst> %??guardian mummy 14:29:17 can we make all mummies move 8, act 10 14:29:27 it's ridiculous how they have like 3 different speeds 14:29:32 maybe more 14:29:56 player mummies are speed 10 14:29:58 I never knew guardian mummies were speed 9 14:30:14 alefury: we could make them a slow race :) 14:30:16 <|amethyst> 6, 8 x2, 9, 10 14:30:38 player mummies would be awful with slow movement 14:31:28 <|amethyst> Mummy of Chei: powerhouse or broken? 14:31:33 I know priests are speed 8. What's the 6, bog mummies? 14:31:34 <|amethyst> 14:31:44 <|amethyst> @??mummy 14:31:44 mummy (15M) | Spd: 6 | Int: normal (doors) | HD: 3 | HP: 15-24 | AC/EV: 3/6 | Dam: 20 | Fl: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 18. 14:31:45 evilmike: vanilla mummies 14:31:46 @??menkaure 14:31:46 Menkaure (06M) | Spd: 8 | Int: normal (doors) | HD: 3 | HP: 24 | AC/EV: 3/6 | Dam: 25 | Fl: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 154 | Sp: pain (d8), haste, torment symbol. 14:31:54 @??khufu 14:31:54 Khufu (04M) | Spd: 10 | Int: high (items) | HD: 18 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 35 | Fl: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 12953 | Sp: demon, smiting (7-17), torment symbol, summon undead, doroklohe tomb. 14:31:57 ah, didn't realize regular ones were so slow 14:32:09 @??bog mummy 14:32:09 bog mummy (07M) | Spd: 8 (swim: 140%) | Int: normal (doors) | HD: 6 | HP: 31-48 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 25, 412(cold:6-17) | Fl: 07undead, amphibious, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 273 | Sp: throw frost (3d6), slow, corpse rot. 14:32:11 i have an idea 14:32:16 it's hard to figure out monster speeds without looking them up, and I never bother to look up weak monsters 14:32:20 @??mummy priest 14:32:20 mummy priest (05M) | Spd: 8 | Int: high (items) | HD: 10 | HP: 55-76 | AC/EV: 8/7 | Dam: 30 | Fl: 07undead, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1389 | Sp: demon, smiting (7-17), torment symbol, summon undead. 14:32:22 so it turns out I'm pretty ignorant of a lot of them 14:32:23 nemelex priest sacrifices everything on the level 14:32:29 guardian mummies: faster than mummy priests 14:32:47 <|amethyst> Dixie: jiyva priest turns it into jellies instead? 14:33:18 pretty much 14:33:21 priests definitely shouldn't sac floor items 14:33:25 that would just be profoundly irritating 14:33:30 Eronarn: What's the problem with Orc Priests? 14:33:53 spiteful priest only sacrifices the items you want 14:35:32 ussdefiant_: they aren't anything like player beogh priests 14:35:36 not flavorful 14:35:56 ...so they should have a harem of 40 other orcs with them at all times? 14:36:15 i mean, i'll take player priests getting evocable Pain, if that's what you're asking 14:37:25 ussdefiant_: what came up is letting player priests have a 'heal weaker orc' ability, and giving it to orc priests / orc high priests 14:37:33 and making them much more buff in melee 14:37:55 player priests or NPC priests? 14:38:20 ussdefiant_: the player would always be the strongest orc, so his orcs could not heal him, but he could heal his orcs, and his priestly orcs could also heal weaker orcs 14:38:29 (so priests can only heal normal orcs, etc.) 14:38:43