00:01:17 -!- heteroy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:11:19 somehow gretell announces every pan level entry now not just the first and the special ones 00:13:07 yeah, mine were getting announced (on cao) 00:13:16 it seemed like every portal entry was announced 00:13:30 so banishment would get double-announced as well I think, once for banishment and once for entering abyss 00:16:11 Lightli the Slayer (L24 MiBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Pan:8 (got: rakshasa) (Zig:8) 00:16:23 Lightli the Slayer (L24 MiBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Pan:8 (got: hell hound) (Zig:8) 00:28:24 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:12 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:32:12 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:32:31 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:13 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:41 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:48:10 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:52:47 -!- Voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:53:08 ebarrett the Meteorologist (L27 HECj) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: white imp) (Abyss) 02:08:59 ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5635) by ebarrett 02:27:37 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:28:26 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:35 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:52 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:58 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:22 nicolae-: there is no Abyss:7, and that's exactly why the assert is failing :p 03:49:22 kilobyte: You have 7 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:50:24 I kind of fail to understand why something would try to reference that -- OODs don't happen in 1-depth branches and on portal levels, and the Abyss is both 03:50:38 it must be some vault requesting it somehow, I guess 03:53:20 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:53:24 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 03:53:40 !tell alefury Dispater and Asmodeus are SIZE_LARGE, and even that is wrong. In every story I've read that describes them somehow, they are human sized. 03:53:40 kilobyte: OK, I'll let alefury know. 04:12:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:30:20 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:39 -!- ark____ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:39 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1673-g06619db 05:04:03 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:15 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 05:35:10 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:04 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:01 !messages 05:50:01 (1/1) kilobyte said (1h 56m 21s ago): Dispater and Asmodeus are SIZE_LARGE, and even that is wrong. In every story I've read that describes them somehow, they are human sized. 05:59:03 Teron (L13 MiFi) ASSERT(feat < NUM_FEATURES) in 'feature.cc' at line 24 failed. (Abyss) 05:59:24 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:14:40 !learn add alefury directional shouts 06:14:40 alefury[1/1]: directional shouts 06:15:31 I read vorpalize weapon while reading a GSC and it turned into a GSC of piercing 06:15:33 is that a bug 06:16:46 hmm, wasn't something like that changed recently for morningstars or whatever? 06:17:15 46f04b1e52598b ? 06:18:50 oh, nvm, it's intended behaviour 06:19:04 that commit seems to affect GSCs too 06:19:11 so they should be crushing not piercing 06:19:32 yeah 06:20:25 works for me in wizmode 06:20:46 Patashu: is that 0.10? 06:20:57 0.10 06:24:51 only a very borderline bug, definitely not a cherry-picking material IMO 06:26:13 C - 42 strawberries 06:26:20 that deep dwarf artificer early vault 06:26:25 is a fedhas worshipper's dream 06:26:57 I read vorpalize weapon while reading a GSC and it turned into a GSC of piercing 06:27:12 I always thought that the spikes on the spiked club meant piercing 06:33:37 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:34:36 it's silly that you can identify any throwable weapon with any Throwing > 0, at a cost of nothing but a bit of time/food. Can be macroed to not cost any human time, too. 06:34:55 only a bit worse than the same thing with all weapons and plants, of course 06:35:16 it's not great how plus identification works generally, yeah 06:35:30 (no need to wield and risk curses, plants are a "limited" resource) 06:35:57 I will continue to champion auto-id of pluses you have already seen. 06:36:17 Any +1/+2 dagger after the first should auto-id. 06:36:26 or any other combination of pluses. 06:36:54 get rid of throwable weapons imo 06:37:07 idea: what if we assigned every item a secret number (a hash of its id), and identified it instantly if the relevant skill is bigger than that number? 06:37:55 ghallberg: ie, you would completely remove auto-id of weapons you're skilled with? 06:38:18 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:25 unknown item pluses are only even relevant early game 06:38:39 I think if you're more skilled than (some calculation of its worth based on to hit and damage) you auto-id it 06:38:41 so if we cut them out entirely it wouldn't change much 06:38:53 you should isntantly ID any negative enchantments 06:39:22 kilobyte: That isn't really involved in my plan. 06:39:26 Eronarn: in the late game you still want to know if that artefact is +9,+15 or -5,-5 06:39:42 kilobyte: yes, but you have more than enough ID scrolls, or just remove curse 06:40:20 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 06:40:25 whoops 06:40:34 It seems odd ot me that you can be so amazingly skilled with a weapon type but still not know how good a weapon is just by wielding it 06:40:59 i guess consider this: nobody sane would advocate for armor not IDing until you've been hit enough in it, based on armor skill 06:41:09 because that would be tedious and add nothing to the game 06:41:21 the only reason current weapon ID behavior has fans is that it is current 06:41:56 unless weapon juggling/management in the early game is a feature 06:42:30 "if it is a weapon type you use, and it has an ego, pick it up and try it - if it's cursed uncurse and ditch it, else use it until it IDs and throw the worse one away) 06:42:37 phyphor: basing the difficulty of id on the enchantment seems weird: you'd need to be more skilled to notice a given weapon is better than average than to notice it is average 06:43:23 if you've not wielded many weapons of that type you don't know what "average" is 06:44:06 I still think that recognizing thing's you've seen before is a smooth way to do it. 06:44:22 recognizing things you've seen before is definitely a good start 06:44:27 And the same for armour, so you don't need to pick up every robe/ring mail/we 06:44:41 how about recognising anything up to what you've seen before? 06:45:03 ghallberg: yeah but it won't handle the current plant/wall dancing for items you do not know yet 06:45:12 kilobyte: No, that's true. 06:45:13 so if you've seen +1/+4 you know +0/+2 on sight 06:45:28 there's a cost currently: they may be cursed 06:45:34 My idea was mostly to reduce tedium, but it doesn't solve everything. 06:45:36 or distortion 06:45:52 is damage based on weapon skill? 06:45:54 or is it just speed? 06:45:57 phyphor: that would be a good rule as long as cursed items worked on 'seen that specific one' still 06:46:01 phyphor: both 06:46:06 so -4, -3, -2, and -1 are treated differently 06:46:09 could you do somethign clever based on damage? 06:46:15 phyphor: otherwise it would be pointless to train anything after mindelay 06:46:16 so you couldn't ID by throwing at a wall 06:46:19 rather than finding a -4 meaning you never have to worry about other curses 06:46:49 well -4 is worse than -3 06:47:02 it'd mean finding a -1 menas you never need to worry about curses 06:47:17 of course I also think we should have more negative but non-cursed (and beneficial but cursed) items 06:47:45 You could just exclude all negative modifiers I guess. 06:47:56 but if you based ID on (something to do with) how much damage you did it would mean more skill = better chance of IDing, it woudl stop throw-IDing being broken 06:47:59 But I think making curses more interesting is the first step. 06:48:18 ghallberg: your idea is good for stackables, though 06:48:30 it would also mean significantly better (or worse) weapons would ID quicker which isn't necessarily a bad thing 06:48:31 clearly crawl needs brogue style negative brands 06:48:34 because otherwise there's an incentive to carry a +1 dart, a +2 one, etc. 06:48:42 '-2,-1 club of healing' 06:49:06 kilobyte: The "might be cursed"-drawback could be kept by not allowin auto-id for cursed stuff, and also not for distortion I guess. 06:49:17 and especially, 1 of all samples of dispersal you have found 06:49:22 You should know very quickly that, say, a +9/+9 sabre is better than a +0/+1 sabre 06:49:22 :) 06:49:32 phyphor: yeah 06:49:44 even if you're not very skilled you should realise "this is pretty damned good" 06:49:57 so, perhaps a chance based on how swingy the damage is from "Normal"? 06:50:07 I don't know how hard that would be to work out, though 06:50:12 I just noticed that there already is a random number for each item: tile selector that's random2(256) 06:50:18 <|amethyst> kilobyte: btw, you can avoid going through "request feedback" 06:50:19 What about brogue-style "good cursed items" but remove curse destroys cursed items? 06:50:30 not randarts ofc. 06:50:31 remove curse destroys cursed items? D: 06:50:31 and I recently made it always present (used to be there only for items with multiple variants) 06:50:33 <|amethyst> kilobyte: click on "Update Issue" instead of "Change Status To:" and you can change everything 06:51:05 |amethyst: yeah, but if you "Update Issue" first it will show as "open" yet be coloured as closed 06:51:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you need to change both Status and Resolution 06:51:48 |amethyst: yeah, I did 06:51:54 <|amethyst> hm 06:52:06 |amethyst: but it started to work only after "Requesting feedback" first 06:52:17 * ghallberg installs brogue 06:52:33 <|amethyst> now I wonder about the bugs I've done that on 06:52:48 <|amethyst> but I can't remember which ones those were 06:54:31 did you use this recently? 06:54:34 it wold be good to have non-sticky curses 06:54:49 one i thought of recently: you get mesmerized by expensive items/large amounts of gold 06:55:30 ... 06:55:53 THere'd need to be some intelligence there 06:56:12 a wizard being mesmerised by, say, arti plate is not that great an idea 06:56:30 Eronarn: as in, that god of greed someone proposed but then deleted from the wiki? 06:56:37 Maybe have mesmerise as a specific item property? 06:57:08 that'd be cool if you could give a mesmerising (something) to an ally to make them the target 06:57:17 it had a conduct of not leaving randarts outside of (god-granted and guarded) stashes 06:57:57 kilobyte: yes, something like that 07:27:45 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:37:35 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:30 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:11 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48:31 Is there supposed to be a check to make sure that at least one stair is accessible? https://tiles.crawl.develz.org/#watch-gregunderscorem has the open map with grouped stairs and the three down are blocked off by a single square opening with a tele trap 07:48:56 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:57 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 07:55:50 phyphor: walls/lava/etc are checked for, teleport traps aren't 07:57:04 ah, that explains it 07:57:17 that's a tad unfortunate in this situation 07:59:37 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 08:02:18 -!- shirish has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:25 Impossible Level Design (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5636) by gregunderscorem 08:13:27 <|amethyst> would it be enough (with no bad side effects) to make dgn_travel_square_ok() return false for teleport traps? 08:14:01 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:08 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:15 -!- Voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:29:18 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 08:34:19 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:19 -!- Patashu has quit [Client Quit] 08:38:21 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:38 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:26 <|amethyst> Also, would making teleport traps unpassable in dgn_square_travel_ok() actually fix 5585 (teleport trap randomly placed blocking the temple entrance)? That one's a vault so the square wouldn't be "passable" anyway 08:45:47 <|amethyst> (it would be travel_ok, just not possible) 08:48:56 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:54:05 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/0001-Treat-teleport-traps-as-unpassable.patch ; ready to commit if it looks okay 09:01:36 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:47 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:14 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:44 galehar: why do you hate that scorpion teleport idea so much? 09:20:34 you did list "spells" as one way to deal with ranged threats 09:22:42 ah, read your tavern post. i disagree: the ctele spell feels clunky to me. also something that allows you to get in fast but not get out fast seems at least more interesting than a spell that lets you do both. 09:23:22 from what I saw of that spell it seemed to have some insane ninja implications 09:28:13 so does semi-cblink 09:28:39 -!- kek has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:29:12 my only issue with it is that it seems a little complicated 09:31:24 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36:45 -!- Voxxik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:17 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:15 -!- Voxxik has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:26 -!- gnsh has quit [] 09:49:56 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:26 enlighten me: is there a comprehensive list of all player status effects (i.e. clarity, resists, etc.) can apply to monsters? 09:51:32 this is for supmoth work 09:51:49 !learn edit suppression[5] s/$/; needs to affect monsters too 09:51:50 suppression[5/5]: TODO: suppress weapons; suppress evocable abilities; suppress/defer equip messages; handle fixedarts; needs to affect monsters too 09:56:59 oh god 09:57:03 I get the feeling 09:57:07 that handling weapon brands 09:57:13 is going to be a nightmare ;_; 10:02:03 -!- shirish has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:01 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:05:31 rath the Slayer (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: small zombie) (Abyss) 10:11:30 okay, looking at itemprop.cc 10:11:42 hoping this is the master function for determining the brand of a thing 10:11:58 can anyone describe the "special" field on items? 10:12:38 I can see that it gets cast to brand_type, but I'm not sure what numbers to plug into to tell it that there is no brand type 10:13:53 oh hm, maybe I can just return SPWPN_NORMAL 10:15:07 oh damn, I have no way to check within that function if the actor holding the weapon is suppressed 10:15:15 at least as far as I can tell 10:17:22 not even sure if this is the correct way to go, really we only care if the weapon is being used for an attack while in the field 10:17:31 but the attack code is impenetrable 10:17:43 -!- jato_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:34 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:38 cryptic would probably know, but isnt around 10:21:57 <|amethyst> Wensley: I'd think monster::damage_brand is probably where you want to change it 10:22:12 does that work for players too 10:22:13 <|amethyst> Wensley: and player:: 10:22:36 <|amethyst> (the player version is in player-act.cc) 10:22:36 that's my issue, players don't have a damage_brand 10:23:26 <|amethyst> player:: methods aren't all in player.cc for some reason (probably because there are so many of them 10:23:30 <|amethyst> ) 10:23:32 I see 10:23:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:23:34 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 10:28:15 <|amethyst> I'm going to push the teleport trap thing... it's not exactly easy to test whether it really would have fixed the Temple entrance, but I'm going to mark that bug as fixed 10:31:04 you can make a temple vault with the entrance blocked by a tele trap 10:31:21 give it super high weight, and see if it shows up or gets vetoed 10:31:35 <|amethyst> That's not exactly the same though 10:31:50 <|amethyst> since this was a teleport trap being placed after the vault was placed 10:32:06 <|amethyst> If the vault includes a teleport trap itself, that shouldn't be vetoed 10:32:09 yes, that would be much harder to test 10:32:17 oh, okay. 10:32:18 this sounds like a hilarious bug 10:32:27 i dont think that bug matters anyway 10:33:01 <|amethyst> alefury: someone else got all the downstairs in D:4 behind a teleport trap 10:33:03 it comes up pretty much never, and if it does it can be an interesting challenge to get into the temple anyway. 10:33:14 that is indeed a real problem 10:33:48 alefury: in this particular game, there was no way 10:34:12 kilobyte: so what, no temple 10:34:20 deal with it, crawl hates you. 10:34:21 it was going to D:5 what was blocked 10:34:36 yeah, that one is a real problem. temple being blocked in 1/10000 games is not. 10:35:03 he could have sat there and starve, or go for the roulette with literally 3/5600 chances 10:35:10 4 10:35:16 can you just add a pass after the complete level generation that just plots a course from any upstair to any downstair. not guaranteed to make the level passable, but should help 10:35:17 no hatches? 10:35:21 (there was one non-stair space behind the teleporter trap) 10:35:25 alefury: no hatches 10:35:29 no shafts 10:35:33 not on that level or the one above 10:35:41 <|amethyst> Wensley: that more or less happens 10:35:47 the only hatch on the one above deposited the player in the main level 10:35:53 <|amethyst> Wensley: the problem was that traps are considered impassable 10:36:07 <|amethyst> err 10:36:08 passable 10:36:10 <|amethyst> yeah 10:36:17 <|amethyst> I special-cased teleport traps to be impassable 10:36:21 oh yeah, 4 squares, there was one floor space 10:36:32 there was a funny reverse of that problem with gas traps. their vaults were considered impassable, so there were lots of hatches :) 10:36:35 (I have the save if someone wants it) 10:36:56 |amethyst: an alternate fix: we could make random tele traps finite 10:37:23 would save summoning abuse, too 10:37:26 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it's still tedious though 10:37:30 <|amethyst> I do agree 10:37:40 <|amethyst> mostly because of wrath avoidance 10:38:06 tele traps being finite (and being able to be "disarmed") would be interesting 10:38:14 infinite traps are still needed in certain vaults, though 10:38:31 <|amethyst> yeah, I would say a vault-placed tele trap should be infinite unless otherwise specified 10:38:36 vault-placed traps can be infinite, random traps should be finite 10:38:40 and we can't use sprint-like err ... not teleporters but somethings 10:38:50 <|amethyst> or maybe infinite if placed as a teleport trap, finite if placed as a random trap 10:39:04 yeah 10:39:05 true-teleport trap? 10:39:11 weak-teleport trap? 10:39:18 <|amethyst> that's a good point 10:39:20 in any case, if you tele trap enough you will end up in the portion of the level with the stairs :) 10:39:24 <|amethyst> should players be able to tell by looking 10:39:27 Wensley: not necessarily 10:39:33 probability doesn't work that way 10:39:38 would would the stair vault have no_tele 10:39:44 Wensley: 4/5600 10:39:54 that just needs persistence 10:40:00 (less than 5600, can't teleport into rock) 10:40:00 also food... 10:40:01 the orb of zot is hard to get for a reason! :) 10:40:03 probability still doesn't work that way 10:40:31 phyphor: our random generator has a crapload of state 10:40:35 |amethyst: definitely not amount of charges, but the trap being limited should be shown i think 10:40:36 <|amethyst> 4/5600 means that after 971 attempts you just barely have a 50% chance to have made it 10:40:38 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:37 or rather, the unlimited ones should be special, regular tele traps should still just be tele traps. 10:41:40 the guy is a sludge elf[Chei] with 6 breads and one apple 10:42:12 and a qstaff of chaos generated, could bash random spawns hoping for a shaft :p 10:42:26 so there was a way! 10:42:33 <|amethyst> btw, unrelated to crawl: I just submitted made the final submission of my dissertation an hour ago 10:42:44 1/1000 chance per blow IIRC 10:42:45 <|amethyst> so yay 10:42:46 congrats! 10:42:49 <|amethyst> thanks 10:43:26 |amethyst: so we get to fool you into fixing bugs? :p 10:43:32 and grats! 10:43:34 |amethyst: so you're saying you have a lot more time to code features! \o/ 10:43:43 It would seem to be sensible to indicate the infinite ones, or maybe, if you tread on one, you get a message about the magical field weakening on the normal ones? 10:43:54 so you have to trigger it (or see it being triggered) to know which it is 10:44:00 Wensley: it doesnt work that way, he still has to defend it 10:44:08 then look for a job 10:44:10 then work 10:44:14 :P 10:44:17 alefury: minor details 10:44:18 <|amethyst> alefury: no, I defended 10:44:26 oh, double congrats then! 10:44:27 <|amethyst> alefury: this was the revised version 10:44:48 <|amethyst> I get hooded on Sunday 10:45:19 <|amethyst> not looking for a job for a while, since I have one (non-faculty) now and we're working on more grants to fund me for a few more years 10:45:29 nice 10:45:43 although i could see that getting dull 10:45:57 <|amethyst> it's research, or "research support" anyway 10:46:15 |amethyst: what's your field 10:46:17 still sucks if you keep working on the same topic 10:46:40 <|amethyst> alefury: it's actually not the same topic as my dissertation 10:46:51 Did you hear about the farmer who got a Nobel prize? 10:46:55 He was out standing in his field. 10:46:56 ah, that sounds pretty cool then 10:47:05 ugh 10:47:27 <|amethyst> Wensley: computer science, working mainly on bioinformatics; but the dissertation was on "Multihierachical Documents and Fine-Grained Access Control", and originated from work in computing for the humanities 10:47:49 timruff (L11 TrBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 171: Webtiles message too long! (-1) (Lair:4) 10:48:03 sounds cool 10:50:00 okay, a cursory test seems to indicate that suppression now works on player brands 10:50:31 <|amethyst> Wensley: distortion unwield would be the next obvious thing to test 10:50:46 <|amethyst> and vampirism wield 10:50:50 * kilobyte hands Wensley a chaos weapon to test. 10:51:02 <|amethyst> yeah, chaos too 10:51:02 all brands in one 10:51:07 haha, good point 10:51:20 <|amethyst> hm 10:51:25 <|amethyst> also, confusing touch 10:51:39 <|amethyst> just to make sure you didn't suppress non-equipment brands 10:51:49 I saw that there's a separate code path for that 10:52:21 it's "if you're not melded and not suppressed and if you can wield weapons" "else if you're confusing touch" "else" 10:52:42 <|amethyst> that sounds not quite right 10:53:05 player-act.cc:219 10:53:08 <|amethyst> right 10:53:22 <|amethyst> I mean, if you just added not suppressed to the first if 10:53:23 <|amethyst> what if you cast confusing touch and wield a suppressed weapon? 10:53:30 <|amethyst> you shouldn't have any brand then 10:53:53 hm 10:54:00 I thought confusing touch was unarmed only 10:54:10 <|amethyst> it doesn't stop when you wield a weapon though 10:54:23 does it confuse through attacks with that weapon? 10:54:26 <|amethyst> no 10:54:35 so what's the concern? 10:54:42 <|amethyst> I'm saying your && !suppressed should probably be on the inner if, not the outer one 10:54:48 oh, I see 10:54:53 <|amethyst> if it's on the outer one and you're wielding a weapon but suppressed 10:54:54 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 10:55:10 <|amethyst> then it will be false and will go on to the else, which will be true 10:55:31 <|amethyst> the current code never goes on if you are wielding a non-branded weapon, and that's how it should stay 10:55:39 <|amethyst> err 10:55:43 <|amethyst> *non-melded* weapon 10:56:16 yes, I agree 10:58:37 <|amethyst> FR: moth of extension 10:58:40 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:49 <|amethyst> it generates a "slow time" aura that makes durations not decrement 10:58:55 <|amethyst> maybe it also casts sticky flame 11:00:49 * kilobyte wants one to follow me while I'm DDoored. 11:01:55 <|amethyst> make ddoor subtract one extra HP for every extra turn beyond your original allotment :) 11:02:06 <|amethyst> so hope it doesn't die 11:07:21 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1677-g09a9b8b (33) 11:20:02 <|amethyst> kilobyte: btw, when you correct someone's save as I've seen you done in the past, how are you doing that? extracting a chunk and hex editing it? 11:20:08 <|amethyst> s/done/do/ 11:36:49 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:38:36 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:20 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:52 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:14:09 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:33 |amethyst: for changing something in "you", I add a shim. For fixing a level, I fix it in wizmode, extract the level chunk, and put it into the original game (ie, non-wizmode). 12:19:53 <|amethyst> kilobyte: aha 12:22:10 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:46 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:28 <|amethyst> Being made of rock was hard for Roxanne: http://www.pbfcomics.com/254/ 12:47:10 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:22 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:44 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:32 -!- ark_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:05 -!- ark____ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:44 so, casting shadow creatues in a zig, to see what kind of level you're on. weird information leak? 13:51:29 ha, never thought of that before 13:51:30 Wensley: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:51:38 !messages 13:51:38 (1/1) minqmay said (2h 18m 34s ago): Your catoblepas breathes a plume of calcifying dust at the orb of fire. 13:52:23 clever 13:52:53 but i'm not sure it's something to worry about 13:53:46 you already get an information leak on jelly levels 14:00:01 -!- roctavian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:08:40 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:04 -!- ais523 is now known as about 15:22:22 -!- about is now known as ais523 15:24:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:07 omg |amethyst, thanks for showing me there are still new pbf comics! 15:28:49 the info leak from shadow creatures in zigs came up before, nobody cared 15:40:54 alefury: yeah, i was so sad when i thought it was ending... and then it kind of never did 15:41:25 Penis (L9 KoEn) ASSERT(branch >= 0 && branch < NUM_BRANCHES) in 'branch.cc' at line 50 failed. (D:6) 15:41:41 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:52 <|amethyst> !lm penis crash -log 15:41:53 1. Penis, XL9 KoEn, T:11319 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Penis/crash-Penis-20120504-204114.txt 15:41:55 I tried to annotate a level and it crashed 15:42:04 (i'm penis) 15:42:37 |amethyst: are you still in the mode where we should when you're active in ##crawl-dev? 15:43:12 <|amethyst> dpeg: sorry, I couldn't parse that. Yes, I'm active now 15:43:36 For some reason Gretell annoucned me killing Sigmund when it was Edmund 15:43:43 siblings! 15:43:57 |amethyst: sorry... last time I saw you here you said that people should shoo you away. 15:43:59 indeed 15:44:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: ah, that was because I had a deadline coming up 15:44:58 <|amethyst> dpeg: I successfully defended 2.5 weeks ago, and got my final revisions in this morning 15:45:23 |amethyst: congratulations! What kind of thesis? And subject? 15:45:36 Penis (L9 KoEn) ASSERT(branch >= 0 && branch < NUM_BRANCHES) in 'branch.cc' at line 50 failed. (D:6) 15:45:41 yep. it's reproduceable 15:45:54 Penis (L9 KoEn) ASSERT(branch >= 0 && branch < NUM_BRANCHES) in 'branch.cc' at line 50 failed. (D:6) 15:46:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: PhD in computer science, "Multihierarchical Documents and Fine-Grained Access Control" 15:46:11 it appears to happen when I hit ! while standing on an escape hatch 15:46:20 <|amethyst> Danei: where are you? 15:46:28 D:6 15:46:29 <|amethyst> d:6, hm 15:46:41 I've tried ! on all the surrounding tiles and they all work 15:46:43 it's just the hatch 15:46:51 <|amethyst> can you backup your save? 15:46:59 How do I do that? 15:47:07 <|amethyst> !lm Danei x=src,tiles 15:47:08 2910. [2012-04-08] [src=cdo;tiles=] Danei the Slicer (L17 HaEn) reached level 5 of the Swamp on turn 44275. (Swamp:5) 15:47:10 |amethyst: addings to the academic credentials of the devteam, yay! :) 15:47:14 I'm on Penis 15:47:15 dpeg: there's a menu option somewhere 15:47:17 on CDO 15:47:22 <|amethyst> Danei: still nontiles? 15:47:25 <|amethyst> Danei: oh, 0.11 so yes 15:47:26 yes 15:47:32 <|amethyst> Danei: 'a'dvanced from the main menu 15:47:35 <|amethyst> it's under there 15:47:37 *Danei: 15:47:38 okay, one second 15:47:41 <|amethyst> it will give you a password-protected URL 15:47:51 <|amethyst> I've got to go for a bit, but I'll look when I get back 15:47:55 <|amethyst> unless someone beats me to it 15:48:01 http://crawl.develz.org/saves/dumps/Penis-0d713f4-120504-2047.tar.bz2 15:48:16 <|amethyst> |amethyst: http://crawl.develz.org/saves/dumps/Penis-0d713f4-120504-2047.tar.bz2 15:48:23 <|amethyst> that way it's in my away log :) 15:48:26 :P 15:48:27 thanks 15:48:36 I can go ahead and continue with my game, then, right? 15:49:10 <|amethyst> yes 16:04:54 <|amethyst> get_next_level_id() on the hatch is returning NUM_BRANCHES:-2 16:09:27 <|amethyst> oh 16:09:44 <|amethyst> exit stairs from the lab are DNGN_ESCAPE_HATCH_UP 16:10:13 <|amethyst> which makes get_next_level_id() try using the lab's parent branch 16:12:21 <|amethyst> is there any reason to check every branch's exit stairs there? 16:12:58 <|amethyst> for entry I can see the need, but for exit stairs surely only the current branch needs to be checked 16:23:19 <|amethyst> oh 16:23:54 <|amethyst> still crashes if you try annotating a real branch exit 16:24:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:09 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:48 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:39:16 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:42 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:56 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:48 -!- ais523 has quit [] 17:20:11 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:15 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:11 <|amethyst> okay, this seems to work 17:50:44 Pressing an unused letter closes Experience's skill screen early (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5637) by Kyrris 17:51:34 <|amethyst> Danei: thanks, should be fixed 17:51:41 Thanks 17:51:50 I'm going to go around annotating on escape hatches all over the place 17:51:59 <|amethyst> you can annotate the dungeon exit too! 17:52:04 Hurray! 17:52:12 Does it ask if I want to annotate the surface? 17:52:28 "Watch out; sunlight!" 17:52:43 <|amethyst> well 17:52:48 <|amethyst> you annotate D:1 in that case 17:52:53 <|amethyst> but it doesn't crash when you try :) 17:53:03 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'd appreciate if you could look over commit 7242852 and let me know if I screwed anything up. I made level_id::get_next_level_id() use the same code as _player_change_level_upstairs() for branch exits 17:53:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: really it would make sense to do the same for all upstairs, then for all downstairs 18:00:57 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:01:15 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:47 -!- ark_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:39:54 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:54 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 18:40:39 <|amethyst> since we still seem to be having problems running our CIA hooks, I turned on commit notification in Chei 18:40:52 <|amethyst> hopefully 18:43:37 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:10 <|amethyst> hm... so with the mass enchantments buff, if I'm not mistaken, a spell power of 134 is the same as 200 18:47:16 <|amethyst> is that supposed to be the case? 18:50:08 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:41 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:00 -!- Twinge has quit [] 19:31:18 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:34:40 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 19:38:44 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:01 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:28 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:43:58 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:08 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:43 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:18:09 rath the Slayer (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: small abomination) (Abyss) 20:21:43 Distinct spell projectile tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5638) by roctavian 20:23:37 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:51 kilobyte * rc9f0ec50b421 (7 changed): Once you have seen a +3 dart of flame, id all of those on sight. 20:31:51 kilobyte * rf859cfa822ab (13 changed): Roll only once for identifying weapons by use. 20:31:51 kilobyte * r88d4e91b7bac (1 changed): Axe a TODO. I refuse to id wizardry on skill training! 20:31:51 kilobyte * r355792f61396 (1 changed): Allow running Crawl on a 79x25 terminal. 20:31:51 kilobyte * ra9c41da81288 (1 changed): Correct an outdated comment. 20:34:10 No CIA? 20:34:17 OMG WE'RE FREE THEY'RE NO LONGER WATCHING US YAY 20:34:28 but now we must listen to the slow god 20:34:29 * |amethyst kicks CIA-115 20:34:29 ow 20:34:34 heh 20:34:37 ... :o 20:34:39 fuuuuuck 20:34:42 <|amethyst> they're here, but we're not telling them about our commits 20:34:50 Ahhh. 20:34:50 then what is cia even doing 20:34:53 <|amethyst> there are problems with the CDO repo or something 20:34:59 ouchies 20:35:08 HangedMan: protecting you, citizen 20:35:15 <|amethyst> kilobyte knows more, but I guess Napkin is needed to fix it? 20:35:27 is this that weird conflict push from a few days ago? 20:35:37 yeah, rpobably something trivial 20:35:56 except that he's busy in Warsaw with his girl 20:36:27 :o! how DARE he 20:36:43 we need to think of the future: without young Napkings, there will be no one to maintain CDO once he dies of old age 20:36:48 <|amethyst> kilobyte: whereabouts in Poland are you, btw? 20:37:31 |amethyst: central north (5 hours away from Warsaw) 20:38:35 <|amethyst> aha 20:39:15 <|amethyst> I've only been to Warsaw 20:40:07 <|amethyst> my advisor went to UW, and the previous department chair to PW 20:41:05 I happen to know a tiny bit about UW 20:44:20 <|amethyst> were you on the UW programming team in 1998? 20:45:00 <|amethyst> or is that someone with the same name? 20:45:44 me 20:46:01 small world! 20:46:19 <|amethyst> I went to the ICPC world finals in 2002 20:46:29 |amethyst: <3 20:46:58 <|amethyst> we didn't do as well as the eastern european schools :) 20:48:42 <|amethyst> my bad, 2001 20:49:25 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:50:02 eeviac the Demonic Blade (L26 DsFi) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: blue devil) (Abyss) 20:59:07 eeviac the Demonic Blade (L26 DsFi) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: black draconian) (Abyss) 21:00:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:04 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:10:18 does anyone know which file governs the color of your glyph if you turn racial player glyphs on 21:10:30 sort of curious how comprehensive it is 21:10:42 like if it knows every single color of orc and elf, and the thresholds for each 21:11:04 I can't remember where it goes, but it's based on monster colours 21:11:36 right, but I know that it looks at your skills 21:11:47 that's only if you have a customized rcfile ;) 21:12:02 a lot of people use it because it's cool. but it's actually a gigantic script doing it 21:12:04 I thought I'd looked at that file before and it was considering skills 21:12:14 in C, not lua 21:12:17 maybe I am wrong 21:12:25 !rc marvinpa 21:12:26 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.10/MarvinPA.rc 21:12:30 |amethyst * r3b3dc2f57bb1 (2 changed): Avoid a few different kraken crashes. 21:12:39 i like how he redirects it to cdo 21:12:57 start at # Player glyphs based on skills by N78291 21:13:53 player_mons() 21:16:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 21:17:19 kilobyte: thanks 21:26:45 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:45 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 21:30:28 <|amethyst> ah crap 21:30:53 <|amethyst> I did not sufficiently test that last commit :( 21:31:12 zomg HOW DARE. 21:31:30 rath the Slayer (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: small simulacrum) (Abyss) 21:33:56 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:33 |amethyst * r3b3dc2f57bb1 (2 changed): Avoid a few different kraken crashes. 21:34:35 bless you 21:34:46 <|amethyst> Pacra: I broke other things 21:34:52 <|amethyst> working to fix it before anything goes to the server 21:35:08 <|amethyst> now if you kill a monster with a magical staff it might not really die 21:35:15 what was the crash anyway? was it tentacle placement? 21:35:23 that's hilarious 21:35:32 that fixing kraken bugs leads to that 21:36:31 <|amethyst> there were two or three: 1. the tentacle can be put back into existence temporarily (to avoid other crashes), but if that happens it doesn't have a location 21:38:28 <|amethyst> 2. if the attack on the tentacle killed the kraken, trying to look up resistances etc on the tentacle would still try to chain up to the kraken itself, causing another crash 21:38:57 |amethyst: I'm afraid 7242852865a0 makes all AKs crash on exiting the Abyss, too 21:39:07 <|amethyst> ah great 21:39:38 <|amethyst> the thing in my fix that causes the problems might not be actually necessary... it doesn't fix either of those two crashes 21:39:49 <|amethyst> I think it avoided some silly messages? 21:40:18 <|amethyst> if people wouldn't change header files and force a full recompile... :) 21:40:22 <|amethyst> (j/k) 21:52:41 hrm, PCH=y is not the default yet 21:53:15 on a slow machine, it brings 489user down to 412 21:53:49 rath the Slayer (L27 TeBe) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: hellwing) (Abyss) 21:57:14 |amethyst * 5e317590d6f8 (1 changed): Don't crash on AKs leaving the starting abyss. 21:57:14 |amethyst * 46a0eddf9c76 (1 changed): Actually kill creatures who die by staff damage. 21:58:57 -!- HangedMan is now known as GreatOrbOfEyes 22:02:24 Cherry-picked 1 commits into stone_soup-0.10 22:02:45 <|amethyst> two, actually, but merged into one commit 22:02:57 <|amethyst> s/merged/combined/ 22:07:24 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 22:07:24 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 22:07:54 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:54 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:10:21 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 22:13:20 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:29 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:10 ebarrett the Meteorologist (L27 HECj) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: ynoxinul) (Abyss) 22:47:23 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:01 |amethyst * d5bb0a1923df (1 changed): Accept !experience only on space, esc, or enter. 22:48:41 haha 22:49:07 yay cia =p 22:51:26 eeviac the Demonic Blade (L27 DsFi) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: rotting devil) (Abyss) 22:53:07 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.10 22:53:51 eeviac the Demonic Blade (L27 DsFi) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 543: Requested a monster for Abyss:7 (got: tentacled monstrosity) (Abyss) 22:54:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 22:56:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:38 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:12 i keep getting this weird bug, when i load a saved game sometimes for a split second it'll load up a different game and then i have to go to the skills screen to pick a skill to train 23:05:31 <|amethyst> latest trunk? 23:05:49 hm, let me see if it does it there, i know i'm not playing latest 23:06:26 <|amethyst> the "different game" is probably just old screen contents 23:06:46 <|amethyst> I'm guessing the other thing is #5626, which was fixed in 0.11-a0-1665-g59128e6 23:07:08 <|amethyst> that happened when you have only a single weapon skill enabled 23:07:25 <|amethyst> because the skill training was being initialized before items were restored 23:07:39 yeah that sounds like my problem. cool. 23:13:30 Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1687-g5e31759 23:15:42 a dumb question: how come the list of commits on the trunk download page and the local commits at http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git stopped updating 23:16:16 <|amethyst> because things fall apart when Napkin's on vacation :) 23:16:55 i see 23:17:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 23:22:49 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 23:42:48 FR: these dudes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa 23:43:00 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:43:05 we've got plenty of monsters, do we really need any moa 23:43:18 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:21 ??todo monsters 23:43:21 todo monsters[1/11]: sloths, cassowaries, moas, hoatzin, octopus, locusts, paper wasps, bullet ants, mantis shrimp 23:43:23 nicolae-: it took me a few seconds. 23:43:27 haha 23:43:43 <|amethyst> G-Flex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhacidae 23:43:46 a giant moa would be scary enough in real life 23:43:48 are monsters easy to implement, i kind of want to take a crack at some of those todo monsters 23:44:00 <|amethyst> "They were roughly 1–3 meters (3–10 feet) tall." 23:44:08 |amethyst: that's just a greasel 23:44:58 nicolae-: the problem is that crawl already has 100 boring monsters, if anything we need to make the current monsters more interesting 23:45:19 and that is at least somewhat difficult 23:45:22 making boring monsters is easy 23:45:57 todo_monsters is not an official list of things the devs want, it is just a thing that eronarn made a long time ago 23:46:20 i guessed, but i figure it'd be easier to make something that someone else already wanted 23:46:26 what is the most boring monster 23:46:40 good question 23:46:44 <|amethyst> any new monster should have a new mechanic, or at least a new combination of mechanics 23:46:47 <|amethyst> IMO 23:47:09 or should at least feel significantly different from the existing ones in some way 23:47:12 <|amethyst> yeah 23:47:14 nicolae-: mikee_> some stupid golem 23:47:18 ^^ most boring monster 23:47:21 I think we could get rid of one of yaks, death yaks, elephants, and dire elephants 23:47:22 <|amethyst> I guess the mechanic could be something like "has 1 HP" 23:47:28 haha 23:47:44 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:53 on the contrary i think all monsters should be replaced with some manner of golem 23:48:09 yred buff 23:48:15 <|amethyst> they're meat golems. they make sounds by squirting air through their meat. 23:48:16 haha 23:48:34 |amethyst: but their brains aren't meat, right? 23:48:39 Pacra says that the giant centipede is the most boring monster 23:48:45 no! the brains are meat too! 23:48:50 it's all meat! 23:49:02 <|amethyst> :) 23:49:03 haha 23:49:30 it is okay for there to be boring monsters, just not a huge and needlessly redundant set of them 23:49:47 FR: let dire elephants uproot trees and wield them 23:49:55 yes, centipedes are boring too. maybe when you kill one they split into smaller centipedes. the 28-segment centipede becomes a 14-segment centipede and a 14-segment centipede! like a slime creature but in reverse 23:50:10 pure melee monsters (with no special attacks) are the most boring. I think its ok to have some of these, but a lot of them are bad 23:50:28 you also get stuff like centipedes, which have a special attack, but it doesnt matter because they're too weak 23:50:29 the new boulder beetle "rolling" thing could work for more monsters 23:50:32 as a sort of charging thing 23:50:33 no 23:50:55 give elephants rolling 23:50:57 and dragons 23:50:58 the worst thing you can do is make stuff like that a normal feature. best to keep stuff limited to a single monster, otherwise it becomes boring 23:51:14 rock worms can have rolling 23:51:18 this is why i am very against adding constriction to other monsters, it is almost overused at this point 23:51:21 they start rolling on a level about 100 squares away 23:51:24 rock worms already have a gimmick so they dont need a new one 23:51:25 "it runs fast at you" is a pretty basic thing, I don't see why it should necessarily be kept to a single creature 23:51:29 rolling jelly 23:51:34 by the time they blast out of the wall at you they are moving at the speed of light 23:51:41 rolling titanic slime creature 23:51:45 railgun worm 23:52:14 also, rolling is extremely buggy, so it should probably be fixed first 23:52:22 evilmike: how about a gimmick monster with trampling and rolling and constriction and whatever else we can think of 23:52:24 rolling has some odd behavior, I noticed 23:52:32 wensley, did you intend to suggest a rock and roll worm 23:52:37 while rolling they can still attack adjacent to them, but not along their trajectory 23:52:38 ooh we can make krazy klowns the gimmick monster 23:52:42 nicolae-: well played 23:53:11 give giant leeches a sort of constriction that follows the player instead of restraining them 23:53:11 give krazy klowns all gimmics 23:53:18 they just attach to you and don't let go 23:53:47 being able to drag monsters with you has problems 23:54:00 <|amethyst> problems that trample doesn't have? 23:54:10 what are the problems with trample 23:54:13 agate snail is so boring that crate couldn't remember its name 23:54:17 evilmike: out of curiosity, which problems did you have in mind 23:54:37 all the translocations stuff that constriction ran into 23:55:07 it could just follow the same rules as constriction when it comes to that stuff 23:55:34 <|amethyst> evilmike: the constriction/trampling bugs should have been fixed, though 23:55:46 <|amethyst> evilmike: oh, drag with you as a teleport 23:55:50 yeah 23:55:53 <|amethyst> evilmike: I thought you meant reverse trample 23:56:01 <|amethyst> which IMHO alligators or crocodiles should have 23:56:06 yeah, that could be cool 23:56:19 implement Death Roll attack 23:56:23 <|amethyst> it would be simpler than trample, too, I think... since you know its square is empty and passable 23:56:27 it should try to pull you into shallow water 23:56:28 <|amethyst> well 23:56:33 aren't they amphibious 23:56:40 <|amethyst> I guess it would have to not do it in deep water 23:56:54 you'd think a crocodile would *try* to pull you into deep water though 23:57:00 instead of being polite about it 23:57:02 <|amethyst> yeah, but instadeath is bad 23:57:09 of course 23:57:36 <|amethyst> maybe if it's in deep water it gets upgraded to a non-pulling "drown" attack instead 23:57:48 <|amethyst> just damage, resistable by breathlessness 23:57:55 <|amethyst> or amphibiousness 23:57:57 -!- Wensley_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:02 partially resistable anyway (I'm sure it's still causing you some bad physical harm) 23:58:11 That sounds like it would be inconsistent with regular movement into deep water/lava (chance to scramble free) 23:58:55 <|amethyst> evilmike: it wouldn't actually be moving you. maybe it just rolls you under and then you're back where you started 23:58:59 ah