00:01:18 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1576-g706b1ee (33) 00:08:39 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1576-g706b1ee 00:19:41 Received +3 lightning scales {sslith, rElec} barding as NaSt. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5611) by gomer 00:29:11 where is the bug in that..? 00:31:35 <|amethyst> rwbarton was being sarcastic and gomer misunderstood 00:31:54 <|amethyst> (and missed crate's warning that it wasn't really a bug) 00:32:08 I was hoping it was something cool, like lightning scales being a centaur barding 00:32:42 <|amethyst> It was "acquirement gave you a good item? nerf acquirement" 00:32:49 <|amethyst> or something like that :) 01:19:43 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]] 01:21:07 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:31:11 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:53 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:50:08 kilobyte: done 01:50:08 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:50:14 !messages 01:50:15 (1/1) kilobyte said (5h 2m 18s ago): Uh oh, could you remove ALL of db from Transifex? I looked at the Greek files, and it looks like it's not only a waste of translators' time, but will even be actively harmful once we get the code ready. 01:50:22 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:27 03galehar * rb4e9b40e3476 10/crawl-ref/source/ (Makefile Makefile.obj): Remove database files from the transifex workflow. 01:51:49 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:01 kilobyte: what about godspeak and miscname? You did translate them to polish 02:45:44 -!- |amethyst has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:46:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:50:35 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:06 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:05 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:02:59 for those interested, sources of the android port: https://gitorious.org/~frogbotherer/crawl/android-crawl 03:10:59 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:19:15 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:19:55 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:14 what's the interface for android crawl like? 03:24:16 crawl has a lot of buttons 03:24:26 are they consolidated down into 'wear/take off' 'use consumable' etc? 03:24:48 no, it's the same interface 03:25:03 you can do quite a lot of things with mouse only 03:25:19 and you can use vol -/+ for ctrl/shift 03:25:46 and there's a button to call a virtual keyboard when needed 03:26:55 but can you beat it in an hour with spen? 03:27:40 you do realize it's in alpha stage, right? 03:27:45 yeah I'm joking :) 03:28:06 it does support physical keyboards too, for devices that have one 03:34:06 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:24 why is the animal skin description "the skins of *several* animals"? 03:52:40 seems wrong if I just got it from butchering a yak 03:55:28 yak had a troubled youth 04:00:45 all yaks and sheep are secretly abominations 04:08:18 Typo in player.cc line 0003554, number 27 (for a level) is 127 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5612) by SouthernSpade 04:10:14 isn't it for felid's extra lives? 04:10:36 I really wish they didn't get any more past XL 27 :/ 04:12:14 anyone know how much racial equipment drops the spellcasting AEVP, or where in the source that might be found? 04:14:29 _player_body_armour_racial_spellcasting_bonus in player.cc 04:18:00 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:21:28 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 04:35:30 03kilobyte * radea1da1626e 10/crawl-ref/source/actor.h: Unbreak DEBUG_GLOBALS. 04:35:40 03kilobyte * r243886b6a463 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/pl/godspeak.txt: Fix .pl @_xom_plaything_@ pronoun/noun gender disagreement. 04:36:13 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:05 galehar: thanks 04:40:10 ??source 04:40:10 source[1/5]: Browse the Git repository at http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 04:54:01 -cTele didn't go away after picking up golden rune (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5613) by ebarrett 04:55:54 kilobyte: crate was wondering where all the neqoxecs on cerebovs level went 04:56:29 are they gone or did he just get lucky? 04:56:31 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:13 alefury: they left 04:58:20 thats cool :) 04:58:21 and balrugs don't spawn with them anymore either 04:58:26 thats not cool 04:59:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:59:28 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1577-gb4e9b40 05:00:09 kilobyte: i guess #5613 is caused by c53ce012953? 05:01:40 maybe balrugs should get smoke demons in their bands 05:02:19 evil mike indeed 05:02:37 some of these demon bands are weird. executioners get abominations, and hellwings get smoke demons (which means a 3 is being led by a 4) 05:02:51 MarvinPA: hrm, I missed that one 05:03:36 MarvinPA: non-constant branch flags were another thing that would have to be separately stored and marshalled, and it _appeared_ to be unused 05:03:37 evilmike: thats what happens when demon tiers get shuffled around 05:03:38 yeah, i guess tomb's the only place that actually uses a branch flag like that 05:03:53 the executioner one really surprised me, I didn't know they were band monsters 05:04:05 ingame nobody sees who leads who anyway, so imo the hellwing + smoke demon band is fine 05:04:11 it makes sense though, if the leader is 3x faster than the pack, it's not going to stay near them 05:05:21 alefury: it might be more relevant in the future. galehar has talked about improving enemy AI, and having band leaders give some kind of effect on it 05:05:50 in that case you'd want to have the leader be the strongest monster, at least 05:08:08 03evilmike * r33d826fd7e10 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Remove some obsolete comments. 05:09:48 would be weird to have executioners wait for aboms 05:12:01 galehar: the android port includes that de-OpenGLizing of local tiles, right? 05:12:36 taking that seems really tempting, it would solve a good number of bugs and "too slow to play" issues 05:14:08 I also tried adding support for drawing letters above U+00FF in local tiles, got stumped by weird problems related to texture creation failing 05:18:13 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:27:13 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:54 due: you have some basic knowledge of greek, right? Could you answer a few questions? 05:31:16 sure 05:34:12 cool, could you look at dat/database/el/monflee.txt ? This one may or may not be wrong. 05:34:39 @monster@ may be: 1. "sheep", 2. "it" (invisible), 3. anything (if Mara is around) 05:36:51 in Polish for example, there'd be a gender conflict in two cases: "frightened @monster@" ("frightened" is an adjective that needs to match the noun) and "@The_monster@ is struck" (participle/noun) 05:39:13 verbs in the case of Polish would be ok -- present and future tenses are gender-agnostic, past is not 05:39:46 Wikipedia says Greek has grammatical gender, but I don't know anything more... 05:39:49 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:45 for rand_all.txt, though, I'm pretty certain it is wrong. Since Greek has both noun cases and inflection, " of the " has as a genitive phrase, and with no information that it needs to be genitive, I bet the translator used nominative case. 05:43:07 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:45:33 even worse, the " of the " phrase can be used in various cases by itself. In Polish this is not a problem for genitives as "of XXX" stays intact even if the phrase as a whole changes, but for example adjectival phrases do need to be declensed. Not sure if this is an issue for Greek. 05:56:34 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:57:01 kilobyte: yes, the android port uses pelya's SDL instead of opengl 05:57:22 from the author: This is heavily dependent on pelya's port of the Android SDL library. I had to mangle it a bit to get the hardware keyboard working and there were some libraries that were missing 05:58:43 kilobyte: tiles framework seems to be able to support several backend. Choosing between OpenGL and SDL could be optionnable (although SDL should be default) 05:59:41 kilobyte: we can delete the greek database translations for now if you want. We'll still be able to pull them back from the git history once we properly support them 06:05:46 galehar: I'm wondering how well it fits currently, but as above, I can only guess, not knowing Greek myself 06:06:22 (it's late Down Under in the due land) 06:06:26 the translator did mention that godspeak is problematic 06:07:12 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=58218#p58218 06:07:15 there are some parts that are rather straightforward (like, the welcome messages on game start), but the rest is often tricky 06:08:19 for example, .pl "Xom prayer" has nearly no resemblances to .en 06:09:18 "slaps you with a trout" is an English saying that makes no sense elsewhere, so is "red-headed step child". Or "crickets chirping". 06:10:26 I can disable translations on the transifex interface, but on a per resource (=file) basis. So if a file as both simple and complex text, better not enable it yet 06:10:48 I used some Polish phrases that in turn would make little sense in English. 06:11:28 kilobyte: well, it's fine. There's no problem with that. 06:11:42 flavour text has no reason to be 1<->1 translations 06:12:56 if a db key has x values, it can have y translations. I don't think there is any problem with that, neither in the code nor in transifex 06:13:44 and what with internal keys? 06:14:05 like what? 06:14:15 like, "Xom prayer" uses _xom_child_ and _trout_species_ in .en, but _Xom_zdziela_ in .pl 06:14:52 and most other composite keys would typically need a masculine and feminine subkey 06:16:00 after having to change _xom_plaything_ to _my_xom_plaything_ (so the pronoun's gender is right), I don't think there is a single shared subkey in what I translated so far 06:18:08 I don't know about internal keys, I'll look into it. Maybe it would be possible to use more generic ones so they work in every language? 06:19:40 for gender, I was thinking that we could add a suffix to a key. foo:n would mean it's a neutral, so it would create foo:m, foo:f and foo:n keys for translations 06:20:26 and foo:s and foo:p for singular and plural 06:23:40 uhm no, they depend on particular phrases 06:24:19 like in this case, _trout_species_ is used by "slaps you with a trout" which is an English phrase, and so is _xom_child_ 06:28:25 simply not translating and not using a key if it doesn't make sense works fine. The problem is how to allow users to add one, like you did with zdziela, right? 06:31:03 a solution would be to add it to the source file. In this example, add _xom_spanks_ to english with an empty or placeholder value 06:32:19 only problem is that contributers can't do through transifex. They would have to poke us, but hopefully, that shouldn't be too frequent 06:32:53 its great to see that translations are actually underway now 06:33:05 considering that this was the case for every single key I translated so far, I wouldn't have such a hope 06:33:11 quite a few enthusiastic translators, too :) 06:34:05 kilobyte: well, for now I don't see any other way, but I'll think about it 06:40:20 for randname.txt and friends, I quite fail why it's split into many subkeys at all 06:50:22 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:30 -!- edlothiol has quit [Client Quit] 06:52:40 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:52:42 -!- edlothiol has quit [Client Quit] 06:56:45 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:14 galehar, kilobyte: maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't look to me like the android port includes any de-openglizing 07:00:12 it rather looks like it uses opengl es, which is also interesting since so far there were problems with texture loading there, iirc (?) 07:00:20 edlothiol: honestly, I haven't look at the source. The guys says he's using pelya's SDL, and there's a SDL splash screen when it starts 07:00:32 has CDO just started lagging massively for anyone else? 07:03:14 well yeah, tiles crawl still uses SDL too 07:03:14 -!- Napkin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:14 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:14 wow, 66% packet loss to CDO 07:03:30 oh right, for input of course 07:03:34 and it's back 07:07:14 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:50 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 07:18:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:31:50 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:35 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:57 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:16 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:02 galehar: are there any docs how to initialize that Transifex client for Crawl? "make tx-config" spews a loads of errors and doesn't produce those .ini files. 08:05:07 Exception: tx: File ( /home/kilobyte/crawl/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/unrand.ini ) does not exist. 08:05:34 you need to run make build-ini first 08:05:54 I should add that as depency I guess 08:13:43 tx push -t -r dcss.items 08:13:43 Pushing translations for resource dcss.items: 08:13:43 Pushing 'en' translations (file: dat/descript/items.ini) 08:13:43 HTTPError: HTTP Error 401: UNAUTHORIZED 08:14:18 you need to create an account on transifex 08:14:29 didn't tx init asked for login/pass? 08:15:41 I've just pushed your polish translations to transifex 08:15:54 it's the most advanced translation :) 08:16:01 tx did ask for login/pass, yeah 08:18:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:49 kilobyte: I plan do write some documentation once the whole process is more stable (which should be soon) 08:26:38 ah, when trying to edit via the web interface, it told me I must be a member of the Polish team 08:28:10 let me add you 08:28:31 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:14 there, I made you coordinator 08:29:37 you need to check the reviewed checkbox or the translation won't be pulled 08:29:40 and only coordinators can do that 08:34:04 "tx pull" overwrote items.txt with something in its .ini format 08:38:17 what? tx only interact with .ini files, it doesn't touch .txt directly 08:41:45 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:15 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:45:04 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 08:46:11 kilobyte: should automatic wrapping be done at 80 col? Text::Wrap defaults at 76, which is nice with git diff since it's indented. 08:48:45 76 would be good, too 08:49:37 ok 08:49:55 I mean it's trivial to make it wrap at 80 08:49:57 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:01 it's a simple configuration variable 08:50:21 but it has 76 as default for a reason, and indentation is one 08:50:47 could you associate my account with the German team? chrisoelmueller 08:50:59 sure 08:51:26 do you want to be coordinator? 08:51:41 nah, not yet 08:51:48 alright 08:51:53 i'm not too fond of the tx interface, so just translating is fine 08:52:21 done 08:52:37 awesome, thanks 09:03:14 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:56 kilobyte: I tried creating the English (Australia) language to take submission for english, but it didn't work. Which is why I created English 09:09:38 I made a FR but they say it's tricky to implement: https://getsatisfaction.com/indifex/topics/allow_submitting_changes_to_source_files 09:28:58 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:30:13 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:16 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:30 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:23 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:24 galehar: how does en-au differ from en-gb? 09:47:48 not by much AKAIK 09:48:41 I suppose there are small difference since they are different language for electronic dictonaries and such, but I don't actually know any 09:52:12 i think it's more about implicit vocabulary and such than actually using different words or grammar 09:58:17 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:28 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:58:30 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 09:58:57 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:10 I messed up some lua formatting with my recent wrapping commit. Nothing too serious, I'll fix it later. 10:17:38 I noticed this in the changelog: ""* Jiyva no longer provides duplicate conservation and resist corrosion effects."" 10:17:50 it seems like jiyva no longer gives Conservation; any particular reason for this change? 10:19:35 he just doesn't give the amulet effect on top of the piety-based effect any more 10:20:29 oh 10:20:40 thing is, I could swear the ^ screen used to have a conservation-related messages 10:20:50 "jiyva is protecting your delectables from destruction" or something 10:20:52 since when? 10:20:59 now, there's nothing on that screen that implies he gives conservation at all 10:21:11 you're talking about a 0.8 thing, so its pretty old 10:21:12 probably it should be mentioned on ^, yeah 10:21:22 the only item-related thing is "Jiyva shields you from corrosive effects." 10:22:08 That's bad, the screen ought to say if your items are being protected from destruction 10:22:19 yes 10:22:48 in other news, the pseudopods mutation is a little aggravating when you're wearing relatively heavy armour :P 10:22:49 hrm 10:22:56 how good *is* jiyva's conservation ability? 10:23:03 does it just protect out of times or something? 10:23:15 piety/200 10:23:21 what's max piety? 10:23:29 200 10:23:35 as I guessed, then 10:24:34 looks like the rCorr is just the amulet effect though 10:24:59 but it's the full effect from 2* onwards instead of a piety-based chance 10:27:18 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:28 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1593-g41ab3e3 (33) 10:29:07 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:33:46 this reminds me. is there a reason why zin causes you to have rRot on the % screen? 10:34:17 this seems to be a bug... you only get rRot when you have vitalization on. It shows up on the % screen all the time though, if you have enough piety 10:35:11 @??vault guard 10:35:11 vault guard (10@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 13 | Health: 54-89 | AC/EV: 1/13 | Damage: 20 | Flags: sense invisible | Res: 06magic(52) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1378. 10:35:48 oh yeah, i should've removed that with the vitalisation changes 10:53:04 why did abyss exiting change to where you entered, and could it please be changed back? 10:56:00 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:20 gmorn 10:57:04 -!- Felyza__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:49 -!- Felyza has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:59 Blade-: sounds recent, I'd guess it was part of portal_branches 10:58:01 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:23 was an intentional change as part of it, i think 10:58:32 and if it was unintentional it should stay anyway 10:58:38 how well does self banish work now 10:59:21 I guess it's still a full heal, and you can activate teleport before leaving the abyss, so it's still useful 10:59:30 I get the feeling that at some point someone went through and caused all strings to capitalize the first character, even when inappropriate 10:59:34 yes, still a huge get-out-of-jail-free card 10:59:39 A - plus b - plus2 c - special d - quantity e - flags ESC - exit 10:59:44 as i said in ##crawl, maybe it can lose the maxhp and maxmp costs now 11:00:39 Wensley: not the first time a problem like this has cropped up 11:00:51 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:28 with banishing, one thing i worry a bit about is if you are fighting louise or someone like that... get banished, escape the abyss, and you're immediately thrown into the fight again 11:01:34 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:41 I can't be the only person to think of this though, so it might not be a serious issue 11:02:11 evilmike: ??grinner 11:02:23 henzell is in this channel, you know 11:02:25 ??grinner 11:02:54 grinner[1/1]: [turn=23342] Grinner the Covert (L12 OpGl) escaped from the Abyss! [turn=23342] Grinner the Covert (L12 OpGl) is cast into the Abyss! (ogre mage) (Orc:4) 11:03:10 haha 11:03:11 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:12 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:16 evilmike: blade also brought that up in ##crawl 11:03:19 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 11:03:25 I wonder if that should be allowed to happen. I would probably say no 11:03:34 it's quite disheartening 11:03:43 I'm thinking of paralysis here, it gives you a 1d3 immunity period (I think) after it ends 11:03:51 maybe leaving the abyss should do the same for banishment 11:04:55 it also seems a little weird that monsters have a free turn to act after you leave the abyss through a portal? not unimaginable, just sort of a cheap shot 11:05:51 giving players the first turn would probably be okay 11:06:08 passwall does it, so i doubt it could be abused 11:06:29 thus emerges a whole new strategy 11:06:34 escape-the-abyss stabbing 11:07:29 (approximately as viable as passwall stabbing) 11:07:54 we obviously need to get Ragdoll exploiting this somehow to get back the old behavior 11:15:18 -!- Felyza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:56 evilmike: I remember that you were unhappy with the size of the MoS's aura. would you be any happier if I made its radius bigger by six squares? :D 11:16:18 -!- Felyza has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:29 Wensley: haha... well, it's good you're working on it 11:16:41 what I would like to do is just see how the monster works and adjust the radius after some testing 11:16:47 sure thing 11:16:51 gotta get effects working first 11:16:55 will be working on it this week 11:17:03 cool 11:17:19 btw: i did spider:1 with a NaFE, and it was kind of hard 11:17:37 (i did get the fire snake rune before going to spider) 11:17:45 are there any other things planned for nest in 0.11, or is MoS the last of it. not sure what the consensus on hellspider is 11:17:52 am i just not used to it, or is spider actually really hard? 11:18:03 spider better be really hard 11:18:07 because I'm about to make it harder 11:18:08 Wensley: there is no consensus on hellspider 11:18:21 alefury: well that is basically a consensus to not consense 11:18:27 alefury: depends a lot on your build, but I think the difficulty is alright, except for the branch endings 11:18:27 also nobody really wants to work on it 11:18:32 it could also use a bit better progression 11:18:40 +2 moths per level 11:18:50 (as in, Spider:4 should be harder than Spider:1. Snake and Swamp are just as bad here, though) 11:18:51 i got swarmed by a million redbacks and other stuff, then ran out of mana and went back up the stairs 11:18:54 moth count = 2^depth 11:18:56 i did throw around some fireballs, though 11:20:09 evilmike: what if early levels in branches had their dimensions reduced? might also help alleviate the "shorten all branches" impetus by lessening branch fatigue 11:20:16 Wensley: after the MoS goes in, the branch endings can be given a final design, I think. This enemy would be suited for the endings, but they shouldn't just be tacked on 11:20:34 evilmike: I'm really hoping these things will spawn randomly 11:20:38 in the upper levels 11:20:43 oh, ghost moths with suppressed see invis 11:20:47 this sounds awesome -.- 11:20:55 suitable for branch ends indeed 11:21:02 Wensley: that's a cool idea, although this monster will be more common deeper. And yes, there's nothing wrong with making it spawn randomly (not super common though) 11:21:10 right right 11:21:30 once again, I'm looking at this moth as a fixture of this branch in an "environmental hazard" sense 11:21:45 might as well get rid of it's melee attack 11:21:51 so like water in swamp or tides in shoals, although hopefully less disliked than either of those 11:21:57 letting it spawn with a redback band would also make sense, imo 11:21:59 I'd be fine with getting rid of its melee 11:22:04 as long as it got a band guaranteed 11:22:23 make that wolf spiders? 11:22:30 it can have several bands 11:22:31 redback poison already goes through rpois anyway 11:22:42 this moth goes well with many enemies 11:22:51 alefury: there's a big difference though. Without rpois, redbacks do quite a lot more 11:23:02 I KNOW 11:23:08 but they do a lot with rpois too 11:23:12 will reduce any "protection" magical effects, so wolf spiders hit harder. will reduce MR, so tarantellas are scarier. etc. 11:23:24 tarantellas check mr? whaaat? 11:23:25 wolf spiders actually aren't that venomous compared to others. They're mostly about just hitting you hard 11:23:27 do they? 11:23:33 if they don't, that's hilarious 11:23:33 tarantellas dont check MR, it's just a damage check 11:23:52 however, an amulet of clarity will be suppressed 11:24:01 yes 11:24:15 worst branch ever :( 11:24:17 in a good way 11:24:19 haha 11:24:23 bye :) 11:24:25 bye 11:24:27 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 11:24:51 there was a death a while ago where Pacra (playing a mummy) died to a tarantella band 11:25:02 the great part is he had a bunch of decks (you can use them while confused) 11:25:17 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:39 I think that spider's nest will be disliked because it is hard. however, that won't stop it from being the most likeable lair branch, so it wins points for that 11:26:11 i dont think it should be much harder than the other lair branches. (also, im back!) 11:26:15 The main complaint (about it being annoying) is that spider:5 gets too many webs 11:26:24 this can be dialed back pretty easily 11:29:26 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29:57 I like spider 11:30:06 it is a bit harder than the other branches, I think, although it really depends on the character 11:30:12 something like ignite poison makes it pretty easy 11:30:54 int max_webs = 400 - num_traps - 50; (and then it's reduced based on how deep you are) 11:31:02 I wonder how it got to be 400 - 50, that's pretty weird 11:32:45 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 11:33:14 by the way, I noticed a trend of monsters getting renamed to less-generic sounding things (imps -> crimson imps, snakes -> adders, etc.) 11:33:17 what about "big fish"? 11:33:38 evilmike: for giggles I increased the aura by 6 tiles over silent spectre aura. this makes it so that its aura exactly obscures your full LOS by the time you can see the moth 11:34:05 it's pretty funny (to me) 11:34:11 but I can see why this would be bad for vaults 11:34:21 but! I can see why it would also be kickass for vaults, in the same way 11:35:20 big fish could do with a better name and/or removal, i guess 11:35:28 I think it would be too big, without a complete redesign of the endings 11:35:36 @??big fish 11:35:36 big fish (09;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 13-31 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 8 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(16), 12drown | XP: 42. 11:35:40 @??giant goldfish 11:35:40 giant goldfish (04;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 25-51 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 15 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | XP: 124. 11:35:42 MarvinPA: that would break the awesome sewer entry vault that always kills me, with the one-tile-wide shallow water and the fish 11:35:43 the problem is you can lure monsters out, even if you give them patrolling 11:35:48 they're somewhat-weaker giant goldfish 11:35:57 yeah 11:36:09 I can never even remember which one is stronger 11:36:12 which probably says something 11:36:15 well they could at least have names that actually sound distinct then 11:36:17 me neither 11:36:48 i think there were some name suggestions on tavern once but i forget where 11:37:16 @??shark 11:37:17 shark (16;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 25-51 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 18, 9 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 205. 11:37:34 I think shark + goldfish are a bigger problem 11:37:50 colossal carp, big barracuda, tremendous trout 11:37:55 big fish are pretty generic, but they can be used in early levels without being too dangerous 11:38:38 sharks and giant goldfish seem nearly identical 11:38:48 close to it at least 11:39:07 sharks have the blood scent thing that probably nobody ever notices! 11:39:16 sharks hit harder and have a special power, but they are quite similar, yes 11:39:30 a special power? 11:39:31 also they are fairly reasonable at the depths you find goldfish at 11:39:41 yeah I've never noticed whatever you're talking about 11:39:49 i've never noticed it either 11:39:52 i just know it's supposed to exist 11:39:54 ??shark 11:39:54 shark[1/1]: It is as fast as a shark. 11:40:07 I've tried to trigger it on purpose before, to make fighting them less annoying... 11:40:10 can't say it worked 11:40:19 it's probably better now that submerging was tweaked 11:40:20 if one of the fish types had something special about it, that could help differentiate them 11:40:24 (something special people actually noticed) 11:40:36 there are electric eels and jellyfish at least 11:41:00 sperm whales to fight the kraken 11:41:10 moby dick unique 11:41:21 the great white ; 11:41:32 implement one of those really creepy deep-sea fish 11:41:35 but a giant version 11:42:00 i think if giant whales are added, crawl needs a nethack style engulf attack... 11:42:28 it's hard to even find photos of some deep-sea fish 11:42:39 imo call big fish carp 11:42:47 what about lamprey? 11:42:51 or something similar 11:42:59 just to make dwarf fortress veterans paranoid 11:43:06 haha 11:43:07 evilmike: brand new portal vault in the belly of the whale 11:43:15 base it on cigotuvi's 11:43:36 dwarf branch needs to have carp and elephants 11:43:40 and unicorns 11:43:52 and miasma, and felids 11:43:58 so many felids 11:44:10 and lots of booze (potions of confusion?) 11:44:34 I have a succession game in DF going right now, and twice now I have nearly destroyed the fortress for lack of booze 11:44:34 and stones/large rocks strewn about everywhere 11:44:42 once I actually did destroy it 11:44:52 regarding fish: there are plenty of interesting sea life upon which to base monsters 11:45:09 sea yak 11:45:10 you've got eels, lamprey-type things, creepy deep-sea fish, sharks, whales, stingrays 11:45:38 leviathan 11:45:39 for a lamprey you'd need some kind of reverse-constriction where you can move but it still sticks to you :P 11:46:20 -!- Heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:21 giant one of these: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Psychrolutes_phrictus.jpg 11:46:29 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:01 i guess maybe only two of big fish/giant goldfish/shark need to exist then, maybe? 11:48:03 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:05 -!- shirish has quit [Changing host] 11:48:05 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:31 MarvinPA: could the game use something more difficult for places like late shoals? aside from krakens 11:49:00 MarvinPA: I'd suggest cutting goldfish 11:49:14 evilmike: that was my thinking, yeah 11:49:21 then rename big fish to whatever 11:49:22 you could cut goldfish and rename/recolor "big fish" to that of the giant goldfish 11:49:27 my reason for prefering to keep big fish is there aren't many very-early water enemies 11:49:43 to the giant goldfish's former name/color/description I mean 11:49:55 big goldfish 11:49:56 since "giant goldfish" is a bit more memorable and unique than just "big fish" 11:50:04 and i don't think there really needs to be a late-game fish so only having the two types seems fine 11:50:28 i also don't think people will seriously complain if what they know as giant goldfish becomes weaker 11:50:34 FR: Piezoelectric eel. It only zaps you when you hit it. 11:51:41 hm, maybe bumblebees and midges can go too, while monsters are being purged 11:51:57 they seem uncontroversial and pretty rubbish 11:52:13 bumblees being in some ways tougher than killer bees has always been confusing 11:52:16 bumblebees* 11:52:20 @??killer bee 11:52:20 killer bee (07k) | Speed: 20 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Damage: 1008(poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 63. 11:52:22 @??bumblebee 11:52:22 bumblebee (05k) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 25-53 | AC/EV: 4/15 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(28) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 225. 11:52:33 @??midge 11:52:33 midge (095) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 806(blink) | Flags: 05demonic, fly | Res: 06magic(8), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 13. 11:52:35 @??giant mite 11:52:35 giant mite (04s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/7 | Damage: 508(poison) | Res: 06magic(2) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 10. 11:52:39 also not actually appearing anywhere except foxfire cards 11:52:52 MarvinPA: I know I've seen them elsewhere 11:52:59 possibly just shapeshifters? not sure 11:53:02 what's most similar to a midge? a lemure? 11:53:03 sometimes they show up on d:27 for no reason at all 11:53:03 yeah they show up in late d sometimes 11:53:06 @??lemure 11:53:06 lemure (085) | Speed: 12 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 5, 3, 3 | Flags: 05demonic, regen | Res: 06magic(8), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 13. 11:53:16 nah, midges blink 11:53:18 lemures and the other ones 11:53:21 ufetubi 11:53:27 @??ufetubus 11:53:28