00:01:10 <|amethyst> got pushed by an aquamancer, which put a different 'm' just offscreen 00:03:52 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1239-g42ba8f5 (32) 00:15:51 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:06 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1239-g42ba8f5 00:22:06 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:45 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:58 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:41:57 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:31 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:49:34 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:46 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:32 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:53 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:50:03 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:38 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 02:04:56 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:44 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:58 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:13:02 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:13:30 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 02:14:18 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:49 CDO saved game won't start (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5580) by magistern 02:29:53 Can not open my trunk save, claims there is a problem with the Hive branch (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5581) by thevogonpoet 03:13:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:59 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:08 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:32:38 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:34:08 -!- shmup has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:14 -!- shmup has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:25 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:42 Hi peeps, I'm sure you're aware of the 'Hive-Balancer' problem? 03:35:55 but if not: 03:36:08 Starting Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 42ba8f5... 03:36:08 /crawl-svn-42ba8f5/dat/des/branches/hive.des:34: Map 'Hive_Balancer' has no DEPTH, no PLACE and no selectable tag in ' dummy minivault ' 03:36:11 Hit Enter to continue... 03:36:21 means trunk games (on CDO) are unplayable 03:36:23 crap 03:36:31 lemme pull and I'll fix it 03:36:37 no worries 03:38:39 that makes no sense, it has a DEPTH: tag 03:38:49 and it doesn't have a minivault tag 03:40:02 I report what I see 03:40:10 oh. I know 03:40:13 I'm just saying it's a weird weird thing 03:41:59 indeed 03:48:17 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:54:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:26 for reference it stops trunk normal, trunk sprint and trunk tutorial - if that helps narrow it down 03:55:20 yep 03:55:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:29 I think it's something else 03:55:54 because I'm getting it on lugonu_bribe 03:55:58 which makes no sense 03:56:05 MarvinPA, I think the des parser is fucked :/ 03:56:40 oh, and zot defence! 03:58:19 d) mikee dcss-svn L27 GhMo, D:26 80x 24 03:58:30 So, presumably it's only new games that are affected? 03:58:40 yeah 03:58:45 I'm trying to bisect 03:59:09 ok 03:59:29 feel free to get on with it and ignore me in here - I'm just throwing stuff in here I am seeing in the hope it helps ;) 04:03:38 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:22 no, it's fine! 04:12:04 it's taking my a while to backtrack it, sorry 04:12:09 I have to step back a commit and recompile each time 04:14:41 OKAY 04:15:03 okay, found it 04:15:14 9716a531a19f089821689a32910f9f5bf2864fe4 04:16:39 is fine 04:16:42 the next one is not 04:17:19 maybe some braces were not pointless 04:17:25 I'm guessing that 04:18:15 might be easiest to just revert instead of looking through all of crawl for the missing brace 04:19:53 eh 04:19:56 it's easy to spot 04:20:22 with 87 files modified i didnt expect that :P 04:20:37 i bow to your brace-spotting expertise! 04:20:40 none of them look bad so far 04:22:39 * kilobyte mutters something about "git diff --name-only" and bisecting that :p 04:22:41 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:50 or for those totally sanity-challenged, running multidelta 04:23:05 * phyphor reads a scroll of vorpal developer 04:23:13 me bisects kilobyte 04:23:31 kilobyte: you broke it fix it 04:23:32 (far more work than doing it manully, but hey, it's about coolness factor :p) 04:23:33 i have to pee 04:23:38 * kilobyte mutters. 04:23:42 :> 04:30:07 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:25 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:37:58 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:41:11 yay evil PLUARET() having two statements without a brace, yet looking like a function call 04:42:06 kilobyte: AHAHHAA 04:42:14 i thought it might be one of those but i couldn't be sure 04:44:55 * phyphor points a finger accusingly 04:45:10 You amde me do *work* instead of play crawl! I don't pay you for this! 04:45:11 ... 04:45:17 I don't pay you at all, but that's not the point! :P 04:45:57 can't seem to push to gitorious 04:46:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:46:26 I don't pay you to make excuses! ... oh, wait, I've done that joke. 04:47:16 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 04:51:10 uhm, CIA...? Wake up, dammit! (Or rather, the part on CDO that does the polling.) 04:51:26 03kilobyte * rb9fa5b286262 10/crawl-ref/source/cluautil.h: Fix an evil macro masquerading like a function call but not behaving like one. 04:51:36 03kilobyte * rb71ee2903504 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-restr.cc: Unrestrict HaAK. 04:52:27 phyphor: hmm, so 0.10 is so uncool it's unplayable? I like that thinking :p 04:52:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1241-gb71ee29 (32) 04:54:01 kilobyte: psh, all trunk all the time 04:54:13 if I'm going to be a bad player the least I can do is make it better for others 04:54:23 so far I've noticed 2 or 3 "won't start" bugs 04:54:33 and the old "stairs into a vault" bug 04:54:50 Starting Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup b71ee29... 04:55:04 and we're in! (took a while) 04:55:16 thanks again people 04:55:25 I am, if not obvious, grateful for your hard work 04:55:34 I owe you all many $drinks 04:55:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1241-gb71ee29 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1210-g8d11180 05:09:35 who decided to finally give rcorr to yellow dracs? 05:09:41 because i owe someone a beer 05:11:58 we talked about simplifying the racid/rcorr situation and it turned out that giving rcorr to yellow dracs made that easier 05:16:07 people always objected whenever it was raised up 05:16:23 (and by people here i mean devs) 05:16:44 It'll make slime different, but not necessarily a bad thing 05:17:31 different in that now you can actually do it without the same amulet that everyone else uses 05:17:36 that is actually good! 05:19:12 absolutego: but devs aren't people! ;) 05:28:28 no, we're not 05:29:40 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:31:42 so we can be sure of one thing - soylent green is not devs 05:31:50 welcome to Logic 101! 05:44:20 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:55:34 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:02:43 any idea why clua.callfn() may return false, yet clua.error is an empty string? 06:03:05 this happens if for example there's something wrong in autofight on the lua side 06:15:28 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:22:19 nago (L27 CeHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 435 failed. (Tar:7) 06:23:12 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:22 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:42 !lm nago type=crash -log 06:55:45 7. nago, XL27 CeHu, T:131155 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/nago/crash-nago-20120420-112213.txt 06:56:34 beh, webtiles and a kraken. No point investigating. 06:56:49 (might be something new, but it's too likely it's one of already fixed crashes) 06:57:33 my suspision is it tried to get the holiness of the newly dead kraken 06:57:35 or something like that 06:58:20 03kilobyte * r2818eb52b5e6 10/crawl-ref/source/lang-fake.cc: (Hy) -> (I) in the j??gerkin fake translation. 06:58:20 03kilobyte * r6e2101aca143 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: If a lua error happens during autofight, display it. 06:58:21 03kilobyte * r813f2c10e964 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/options_guide.txt source/dat/lua/autofight.lua): A new autofight option: autofight_throw. 06:59:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1244-g813f2c1 (32) 06:59:19 immediately updating CDO after adding a new thingy is selfish, but hey :p 07:06:35 I think the bug is something like this 07:07:03 -slice tentacle -it dies -whole kraken dies as a result -then, it attempts to apply brand damage but can't find its target anymore (as kraken death blows up all tentacles) 07:07:20 actually, take out 'it dies' since the kraken dies first 07:13:26 you're probably wasting your time, webtiles on CDO haven't been updates in ages, and there's a buttload of fixes, including a few involving kraken deaths 07:14:06 can it not be updated? 07:14:17 or waiting for the next major 07:22:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:09 can be, but Nap King is completely out of time and motivation 07:36:46 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:59 kilobyte: I wonder if backporting f470cca (webtiles performance improvement) would 1) be ok even though it's not technically a bugfix and 2) give more motivation for an update ;) 07:43:40 although one could consider the high cpu usage a bug 07:44:21 that sounds good 07:44:42 +1 07:45:29 no one but the common wisdom about release practices forbid making large changes in stable :) 07:45:57 regressions are bad, but so is wasting loads of CPU 07:53:19 kilobyte: is travel_delay=-1 default on dgl? 07:58:36 people seem to complain about it 07:58:50 although those who tried it for a while can't live without it 07:59:36 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:45 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 08:01:14 fast autoexplore and instant travel is the way to go 08:01:15 imo 08:01:29 atm I have both at instant because I love to teleport all over the place 08:04:55 I ought to try turning them both on 08:06:26 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:13 03galehar * r9f7ed774a40c 10/crawl-ref/source/defines.h: Halve the number of item mimics. 08:08:14 03galehar * rc0e28c74826c 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: No mimics in Hell/Pan/Tomb. 08:08:14 03galehar * r76b6a5e16e98 10/crawl-ref/source/ (stuff.cc stuff.h): Use round close by default for the new stepdown function. 08:08:21 03galehar * r24cefa76c8ec 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/gui/startup/high_scores.png: Optimize high score tile. 08:14:16 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:43 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:19:52 kilobyte: would be nice to have an in-game toggle for autofight_throw. Unfortunately, ^T is taken :( 08:22:34 Patashu: fast autoexplore and instant travel, is that just setting travel_delay and explore_delay to -1 08:23:31 <|amethyst> galehar: what about + ? 08:23:45 <|amethyst> or ctrl-] :) 08:24:26 yeah, why not. It's just that ^T would have been easier to remember 08:24:49 ctrl-] is pretty bad. 08:26:59 absolutego: I'm the one who gave back yellow dracs their rCorr. I'm also the one who took it away more than a year ago... 08:28:09 -1 for instant 08:28:22 1-33 for fast (the lower the faster) 08:34:17 oh, wow, that'll take some getting used to 08:59:38 galehar: you still get some brownie points <3 09:00:23 now all draconians make sense, more or less (i'd still probably do away with grey ones, but i haven't played the new ones) 09:02:33 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:23 wow 09:17:27 I have discovered a language worse than php 09:17:29 mirc scripting language 09:17:55 in mirc scripting language, if (blah) {} is not an error, but if (blah) \n {} is 09:18:02 the curlies have to start on the same line or it throws up 09:18:53 <|amethyst> there's some scripting language, can't remember which ATM, where "return" just means "this will be the return value"----it doesn't do flow control 09:19:10 haha 09:19:14 <|amethyst> so if you want to leave the function early, you have to wrap the rest of it in an if 09:20:17 03galehar * ref57d545bd1b 10/crawl-ref/source/l_you.cc: Lua hooks for toggling skill training. 09:20:55 <|amethyst> oh, right 09:21:20 <|amethyst> it was the scripting language for GCCG, a collectible card game client/server program 09:21:51 <|amethyst> that one had some other quirks, too... IIRC you can't have a comment inside a function 09:22:43 <|amethyst> I think any time you see "I designed a scripting language for my program" it's a dangerous sign :) 09:22:57 <|amethyst> vimscript isn't as horrible as some, but it's still pretty bad 09:23:03 <|amethyst> I'm glad Crawl chose Lua 09:23:27 <|amethyst> or something---could as well have been python, perl, whatever... just not a new and poorly-thought-out language 09:23:50 I think almost all modern commercial games use lua 09:24:07 <|amethyst> did Id switch from QuakeC/whatever? 09:24:17 LUA is pretty good 09:24:20 don't know 09:24:28 not so sure about "almost all", but lua is pretty popular. has been for a while, really. 09:24:31 why even design scripting languages anymore. just plunk in LUA 09:24:41 also 09:24:45 now I can't figure out why this won't work 09:24:47 var %result = $hsget(learndb, %query) 09:24:53 it's pretty simple, mIRC 09:26:08 oh, I'm typoing 09:26:10 figures 09:26:30 ok, that's that done 09:26:45 now for multiple entries 09:27:30 what are you trying to do= 09:27:42 make a learndb 09:27:44 but for brogue 09:27:54 (but in mirc scripting language so it will probably burn and explode) 09:31:18 you know the code for the bots is available, right? 09:31:29 and if its not you can probably just ask 09:36:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:22 I'll ask for it if this doesn't work 09:38:50 can you come into ##brogue, attempt to make an entry and then query it 09:38:52 don't do anything fancy 10:08:01 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:20 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:21 03MarvinPA * r644b10b2d50f 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Don't give piety for banishing plants 10:21:37 @??abyssal plant 10:21:37 unknown monster: "abyssal plant" 10:21:47 what's the name of that 10:21:58 @??demonic plant 10:21:58 demonic plant (14P) | Speed: 0 | HD: 10 | Health: 37-70 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Flags: 03plant, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0. 10:22:11 haha, nice 10:22:40 those should be random spawns in the abyss imo 10:22:48 and also show up with corruption 10:23:10 could use a better name though... 10:39:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:12 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:34 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1249-gef57d54 (32) 10:52:37 -!- Patashu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:58 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 11:47:25 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:47 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 11:47:56 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:13 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 11:49:23 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:09 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:52:00 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 11:52:13 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:46 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 11:52:57 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:18 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 12:06:45 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:45 -!- Patashu has quit [Excess Flood] 12:15:42 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:48 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:14 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:44 is there any information available about setting up a webtiles server? 12:34:25 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:57 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:14 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 12:38:24 is there a code repository or anything that contains the webtiles code 12:45:08 -!- imantor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:14 wh1te: just build Crawl with WEBTILES=y 12:46:00 for a public server, you probably want USE_DGAMELAUNCH=y as well 12:47:34 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:26 thank you i will give that a shot 12:49:37 can imb hit you in trunk? 12:49:50 at point blank range 12:51:00 no 12:51:14 nice 13:08:27 etru1927 (L18 HETm) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2053 failed. (WizLab) 13:08:50 there goes my saint roka kill :( 13:09:29 oh, an frederick. damn 13:09:46 how did you request the crash log? 13:10:04 you killed roke and frederick in wizlab? 13:10:06 roka 13:10:15 no, the floor reset after the crash 13:10:17 !lm etru1927 crash -log 13:10:17 1. etru1927, XL18 HETm, T:61751 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/etru1927/crash-etru1927-20120420-180817.txt 13:10:44 oh, the wizlab entry didn't cause an autosave? 13:10:57 no 13:11:19 oh, the wizlab is broken 13:11:59 which one is it? i can't find the name 13:12:48 New lua binding that allows to get the list of items at a given position. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5582) by CommanderC 13:14:59 don't know. given the thing about zombie, either zonguldrok or doroklohe 13:16:09 !lm * crash x=map 13:16:10 2795. [2012-04-20] [map=] etru1927 the Black Belt (L18 HETm) ASSERT(zombie class size(cs) == Z NOZOMBIE || zombie class size(cs) == mons zombie size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2053 failed on turn 61751. (WizLab) 13:16:38 I guess that only works with deaths 13:17:00 worth it risking going in again? 13:18:04 i'd save first, so if it crashes again you won't have to redo the level a third time 13:18:10 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:19 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:35 although it might pick a different lab 13:18:37 it's empty already, so we'll never know 13:18:55 i figure it's zonguldrok if it's the wizlab doing it. that one spawns zombies 13:19:13 doroklohe just drops walls 13:19:55 well, at least i didn't die to st roka or frederick the second time around 13:20:20 doroklohe has "KMONS: % = place:D:15 zombie / guardian mummy w:2" 13:20:23 and one similar line 13:20:48 in one case of random2(4) 13:23:32 hm, i should re-pull and look again 13:24:44 this smells very much like 5568 13:34:05 -!- quazi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:36 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:00 noticed a minor text problem: when in an ice cave, the onscreen location thing says "An Ice_Cave" 14:28:02 with an underscore 14:32:43 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5556 14:37:45 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:38:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:38:49 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 14:40:53 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:41:58 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:12 03elliptic * r15cafadcc2b5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h mutation.cc player.cc): Make rAcid and rCorr equivalent. 15:05:35 -!- absolutego has left ##crawl-dev 15:12:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 15:12:43 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:34 -!- quazi has left ##crawl-dev 15:26:34 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:23 03dolorous * rccceac4dfdd9 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Remove inaccurate comment. 15:29:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:08 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:37:10 is there anything stopping us from making zigs infinite? 15:48:32 80x70 max map size, 700 max monsters on a level 15:50:01 time limit of 2*10^9 aut 15:52:25 hopefully that would be enough to ensure any character will die before hitting the limits :P 15:52:59 mmm, 700 pan lords 15:55:28 what would probably make things a lot more dangerous too would be more variety in the levels with regards to where monsters spawn (imagine a layout where monsters start in a circle around you) 16:19:26 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:48 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:43 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:15 st_: v8 ziggurat 16:35:26 i kind of would prefer if zigs stayed consistent in difficulty though; like, across characters 16:35:50 it already can be hard to compare zig wins e.g. panlord 27 16:36:34 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:40 it isn't a true zig win unless you die in it 16:37:36 !tell bmh http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/game-programming/polygon-map-generation/ 16:37:36 Wensley: OK, I'll let bmh know. 16:38:26 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:44 Eronarn: I simplified some of Zig code, but there's a crapload more that can be done. Including, for example, tying possible monster sets to depth somehow. 16:38:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:07 it's tempting to use the standard depth/chance/uniq_foo code 16:39:53 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:34 kilobyte: that would be good. guaranteed holy or pan 27? :) 16:41:59 the point is to not guarantee anything :p 16:42:16 or rather, guarantee but with enough shufflage 16:43:06 after doing 26 levels you'll know what the last one is but that's probably ok 16:44:55 This resembles me of the following story: a judge ordered a prisoner executed, but with the following detail: the execution must take place during the next week, and if the prisoner has a way to guess the day of the execution any time before the executioner knocks, he can't be executed that day 16:45:19 question: on what day the prisoner can be executed? 16:49:49 none 16:50:17 headzone: correct :) 16:50:53 if you're on Zig:26 and had no Pan level yet, you know it's the next one 16:52:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox 16:54:29 kilobyte: not true 16:55:23 elliptic: <3 16:55:30 because as soon as the prisoner logically realises that, then any day then becomes vald 16:55:35 THere are far more interestign koans 16:56:24 Is that actually a koan? 17:00:17 why would it not be? 17:00:59 Was just wondering if it came from buddhism. I always thought it was just a logical problem 17:01:08 It doesn't come from Buddhism 17:02:07 I was meaning it in the non-Zen sense 17:02:07 although there is links 17:04:36 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:45 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:28 the inconsistent rounding in skills bugs me so much sometimes 17:14:52 phyphor: I don't think there is much need for strict consistency, as long as granularity is small enough to give no real benefit for micromanaging skill levels 17:15:34 I'm not explaining myself properly but, for example, start a SpEn 17:15:45 turn off a, c, d, e, i, k ... then focus h 17:15:51 note b is still lit 17:16:12 now turn off a, b, c, d, e, i, k, focus h, then realise you want to leave b on - b is not lit 17:16:28 and there are cases where you simply can't do any better: you get XL + 2*Spc spell slots, as long as the benefit from XL is discrete (I was shouted at when I tried to change that), there will be a jump at 0.5 and 1.0 of skill 17:17:14 phyphor: you turned it off yourself, what's the problem? 17:17:23 turn b bac kon 17:17:27 it's on, but not lit 17:17:40 it's at 0% not 1% 17:18:13 phyphor: it sounds like you are using auto mode... 17:18:18 -!- absolutego_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:48 right 17:18:56 the problem is the inconsistency 17:19:00 like I said, it bugs me 17:19:07 not that it's important 17:19:36 but it seems weird that the order you select and deselect is important 17:20:40 auto mode is designed for people who aren't worrying about such things :) 17:20:44 it does sound strange though 17:22:30 perhaps it clears the training list overzealously? 17:23:38 it is consistent 17:23:38 I assume it's a rounding error 17:23:54 s/error/inconsistency/ 17:25:51 phyphor: I just tried you scenario, I get 1% in both cases 17:25:57 trunk or 0.11? 17:26:00 0.10 17:26:14 although, I did notice that sort of things... 17:27:44 phyphor: oh, I know. It's not the order in which you enable/disable skills 17:28:11 It's just that the excercise queue initialisation has a little randomisation 17:28:48 randomisation? 17:28:53 it seems consistent every time 17:29:42 hmm, yeah 17:30:02 like I said, it's ever so minor 17:30:14 I'm easily irritated by trivial matters :) 17:30:18 the order of the exercises is randomised, but the number of exercises should be consistent 17:30:34 and it's more an interesting quirk than anything else 17:30:53 as I said, I noticed some little inconsistencies, but they are hard to reproduced and too little to matter (to me :) 17:31:25 Well, the one I said is consistently reproduced, but I agree it is of little matter 17:33:07 I guess Sebi will startscum for that, though 17:39:54 I don't see how scumming helps - but maybe I'm not seeing the randomisation 17:44:08 it certainly wouldn't help, and I'm not even sure there is a problem here. 17:45:06 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:00 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:19 about that rod of lightning: while the design seems trivial to implement as-is, and would be ok interface wise, there's a big fat theme problem: everywhere else in Crawl, lightning bounces 17:49:50 and bouncing arcs isn't an easy thing to do 17:50:42 so it'd need some other beam flavour than lighting, but that in turn wouldn't fit it that well 17:51:10 hi 17:51:39 someone changed the stab acid things doesnt corrode your weapon if you kill it 17:52:45 dunno if it was intended 17:52:50 but its a bit annoying 17:53:38 sounds right to me 17:53:41 it was intended... it isn't specific to stabs, just a change to make the killing blow not be special 17:53:55 ah, ok 17:54:40 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:02:22 -!- res has quit [*.net *.split] 18:02:28 -!- res has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:14 it's silly that =f blocks both automatic quiver and manual selection (all but Q which no one uses) 18:04:01 people use things other than Q?? 18:04:32 ( ) 18:04:32 I use Q 18:04:37 sometimes 18:04:43 seriously, are you basing that on anything other than that you don't use Q? 18:04:58 I often use Q 18:05:20 I haven't seen anyone use Q (not that many folks throw stuff) 18:05:21 I don't use ( and ) because I can't remember which keys they are... Q is simple and easy to remember 18:05:22 I use it when I play a ranged character 18:05:54 -!- Felyza__ has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:54 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:54 -!- Snowclone has quit [*.net *.split] 18:05:56 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:57 sometimes I use it if I have multiple types of darts early on 18:06:45 () are faster unless you =i everything (hard to do if you use thrown weapons) 18:06:59 I didn't know about the ( and ) keys 18:07:02 kilobyte: how are () faster if you are carrying 10 different ammo stacks? 18:07:22 elliptic: it prioritizes relevant ones 18:08:05 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:06 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 18:08:06 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:18 uh, relevant? which of my 10 different stacks of arrows are irrelevant? 18:08:21 ie, if you have several thrown weapons and two types of needles, after switching to a blowgun needles will be next to each other 18:09:30 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:30 -!- Blade- has quit [] 18:09:54 anyway, if you prefer Q, you're free to use it -- I'm looking for a way to fix a pain in the ass with ( ) 18:09:57 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:13 -!- Felyza__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:13 -!- Snowclone has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:29 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:39 -!- Blade- has quit [Changing host] 18:11:39 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:00 not sure whether to change =f or add a new inscription 18:16:45 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: n8] 18:24:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:27 -!- absolutego_ is now known as absolutego 18:44:12 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:57 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:16 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:21 -!- Blade- is now known as Blade|AFK 19:14:27 -!- Blade|AFK is now known as Blade- 19:16:10 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:24 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:39:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:31 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:31 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 20:13:02 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:16:14 Spider walls, second take (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5583) by roctavian 20:25:35 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:28:09 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:46 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:52:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:01 HangedMan: whats with the huge empty space in hangedman_sb_wall_set_up? 20:53:06 is that going to be floor or what? 20:53:20 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:30 yes it's floor 20:54:09 I ran into some issues with the ridiculous variable work that subvault does and wanted to keep lots of potential pairing swapping open 20:54:19 well, i cant really give feedback on that one, its too incomplete and theres too much randomization to figure out whats going on 20:54:44 oh I see, it's a subvault 20:55:05 it's sort of incomprehensible just reading the source compared to letting crawl make it 20:55:22 because I am a bad person and need to stop overcomplicating things at times 20:55:27 Well, I just looked at that and assumed it wasn't a subvault. subvaults usually dont get used like that 20:56:20 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56:21 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:56:27 usually the whole middle section would be subvaulted... why did you do it that way? 20:56:29 it was an educational experience to make! in that map definition hates empty lines 20:56:50 is there an issue with putting the floor in the subvault? 20:56:53 oh, because the 098 contents inside the middle section themselves are varied a lot 20:57:00 Crash upon equipping Staff of Demonology (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5584) by icelizarrd 20:57:38 stupid huge amounts of shuffle/subst work is being used to keep quasi-symmetry 21:01:59 HangedMan: the eronarn of vaults?? 21:02:18 The vault itself looks fine. But this entire subvault basically amounts to randomizing the pillars a bit 21:02:32 * HangedMan shrugs 21:02:57 could probably keep it to the x and + shapes give or take tiny variation and save tons of headache in reading those pillars 21:04:12 It's not broken or anything. But since you're going to the trouble of using a subvault here, I think you should do more with it 21:04:35 the vault isn't broken, I just think you put a huge amount of work into something that has an almost unnoticable effect 21:08:54 just to clarify, there's nothing wrong with having things extremely complicated. I'm only suggesting that since you're going that route, it would make sense to take it further 21:09:11 mm, k 21:09:24 I do have some vague ideas involving other vault decorative elements 21:12:40 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:40 hangedman_opposites_gauntlet - looks entertaining. Giving it a low weight seems unnecessary though, epecially since the monster set has huge variety 21:14:12 k 21:20:04 no comment on the xom vault? 21:20:12 hangedman_xom_zot_hilarity - get rid of the floor tile definitions. I can't tell what's going on: impossible to distinguish floor from wall, and floor from water 21:20:22 hah 21:20:49 if you're going to define a tile, stick to one or two and make them very similar ones. I'd suggest not using one at all though, because zot has varied colours, and your vault will clash with them 21:20:53 !vault xom_redecorated 21:20:57 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/194398 21:21:18 no, not this one 21:21:21 !vault tgw_xom 21:21:22 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/194399 21:21:40 but yeah I'm not fond of said tilework and will be fine with removing 21:21:51 are the threats fine? 21:22:09 tgw_xom just uses recolouring, which isn't as severe 21:22:23 with random tiles, its much harder to visually parse what is going on 21:22:56 something mildly annoys me about console and tiles not having any correspondence at all 21:23:21 but it probably doesn't work for zot 21:24:18 they don't need to correspond much 21:24:25 just don't make things look ugly 21:25:25 as for the gameplay, I think there are too many teleport traps. Also, the fog machines seem like a pointless distraction here 21:25:42 hmm 21:26:35 could sorta-group the staircases and put them near the center-chamber's walls to have the same effect without all of the inadvetertant teleports of klowns and such 21:28:37 you give _way_ too many randarts to the mummies 21:29:08 if you want loot to be carried by monsters, that's a cool idea. But you're handing out 10+ randarts here 21:29:58 tried to make most of the base-types involved non-desirable, but sure I'll change the weights 21:32:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:52 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:28 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:52:56 Teleport trap blocks entrance to the Temple (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5585) by vortexion 21:59:08 -!- HangedMan is now known as GreatOrbOfEyes 22:06:54 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:29 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:20 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:48:23 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:51:54 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:25 Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1252-gccceac4 23:25:01 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:03 -!- GreatOrbOfEyes has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:36:27 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:41:06 -!- shirish has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:35 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:53:10 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:53:10 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA