00:03:55 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1190-g81634a0 (32) 00:05:38 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:01 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:02 -!- oberste1n has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:04 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:12:04 -!- oberste1n is now known as oberstein 00:20:51 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1190-g81634a0 00:21:50 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:38 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:41 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:15 -!- Felyza has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52:39 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 00:58:41 -!- Felyza has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:22 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:44 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:10 -!- [1]capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:21 -!- [1]capablanca is now known as mikee_ 01:33:01 Help, my evasion is zero! (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5573) by nubinia 01:51:27 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:21 03elliptic * rff004f8d74f1 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Fix most characters having 0 EV. 02:02:02 Napkin / kilobyte / due : ping to update CDO with the above fix ^^ 02:03:09 Ping me again in ten when I'm on a machine with access and I can do it 02:03:20 elliptic: pong 02:04:43 (running to the shower then work, won't be able to watch it): CDO and Windows, right? 02:05:07 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1191-gff004f8 (32) 02:05:16 yeah 02:05:44 all is in ccache, cool 02:07:12 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1191-gff004f8 02:12:34 thanks for fixin' ev, elliptic 02:12:38 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 02:17:37 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:22:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:32 -!- Felyza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:55 -!- Felyza has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:34 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:44:14 25 staircase flavour vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5574) by infiniplex 02:52:56 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:02 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:17:11 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:22 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:19:22 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 03:30:19 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:53 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:45:30 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 03:49:44 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:05:34 all done? 04:25:50 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 04:29:25 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:55 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1191-gff004f8 05:04:56 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:19 03kilobyte * rdc449fa41465 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Make a comment more clear. 05:13:19 03kilobyte * rbc8c0f841d3e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (libunix.cc ng-setup.cc player.cc player.h): Remove another few unused functions. 05:13:19 03kilobyte * rcbc0dd1c0e73 10/crawl-ref/source/stash.cc: Don't include webs in the stash tracker. 05:13:19 03kilobyte * r108d11072f75 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des: Pre-id the weapon brand (holy wrath) for the angel in zin_angel. 05:13:30 03kilobyte * r9fc004ff8893 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemname.cc ng-init.cc): Water potions are always "clear" -- so don't pretend they're unknown. 05:20:28 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:26:42 MarvinPA, elliptic: perhaps Lugonu's banishment should be a bit more expensive, since you now get a fraction of a piety point back on success? 05:32:17 could increase the cost by 0.5 or something, yeah 05:32:37 doesn't seem like a big deal to me one way or the other 05:41:18 also, a fun bug on portal_vaults: after setting the absdepth of Pan to 24, suddenly uniques for that depth started spawning there. I'm 90% sure this should be fixed. 06:03:59 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:45 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:49:30 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:45 MarvinPA, kilobyte: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4356 07:03:12 during the whole tourney, only two winners had Malign Gateway memorized, and it doesn't seem like either put it to use 07:03:47 (both have action counts disabled -- as a non-default, I doubt more than a few people have them) 07:05:25 one of them learned it after half of Zot:5, as a distraction; no idea why as it was a Fedhas worshipper 07:05:48 well every other summoning spell is pretty much entirely broken, whereas malign gateway is the one well-designed one that already has a cap :P 07:07:21 considering that the only write-up of the summon cap is entirely broken itself, I see it would consistently break everything :p 07:07:39 (really, summoning needs an overhaul, but not in the way written on the wiki) 07:08:26 it does nothing to the dispersal/teleport abuse too, just makes it slower 07:09:11 well i agree that different spells would need different caps, yeah, not just limit everything to 1 07:10:09 fixing teleport abuses could be done by making summons time out quickly when out of your LOS, i think that's been suggested a couple of times already but maybe not written up anywhere 07:10:56 or perhaps they could turn hostile when far enough? 07:11:54 ie, a summon that lasts 100 turns will die in 10 turns in the Elf:$ vault anyway 07:12:09 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:31 (I mean, timing out faster is not always enough) 07:12:44 yeah, that could work too 07:16:59 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:53 I don't care much for the different caps because say you can have 6 spammals, 4 imps, 10 from horde, 4 ugly things etc - this is basically the same summon spam we have now 07:49:36 clouded_: they can be weighted towards a common limit 07:51:08 perhaps even with some bonus for using different spells rather than repeating a single one 07:51:29 what if you couldn't summon unless an enemy was in LOS, and when no enemies were in LOS your summons quickly evaporated 07:51:42 !tell G-Flex The XP you got from the hobgoblin was inferiour to skill cost, so it was put in the pool and no training occured. Killing the rat pushed the pool above skill cost. 07:51:44 galehar: OK, I'll let G-Flex know. 07:53:17 Patashu: it's like Haunt: people keep casting it at one of existing summons... and would just aggro one if needed 07:53:36 huh, I never thought of doing that 07:53:36 XD 07:53:51 just watch Ragdoll playing some time :p 07:54:04 that seems contrary to the spirit of haunt. maybe haunt should not work on summons period 07:54:13 if a given mechanic can be abused in some way, this guy WILL do that. And he's a master. 07:54:49 !tell elliptic CommanderC has posted some autofight improvements on the tavern: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4330#p56357 07:54:49 galehar: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 07:55:04 would be somehow silly you can't use it against hostile summons 07:55:23 but for a single spell with an unique mechanic, it could work 07:55:31 03kilobyte * rd2bcacb8d44c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Fix shedu keeping pointlessly casting at each other. 07:55:40 That autofight improvement is only an 'improvement' if you don't care about ammo mulching 07:55:41 03kilobyte * re81146bfc524 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files in 6 dirs): Rename scrolls of summoning to unholy creation. 07:57:45 MarvinPA (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2055 failed. (Zig:18) 07:58:06 uhm yay, again 07:58:30 that crash was taking loads of attempts to repro locally but it seems to come up pretty quickly every time i resume my game on cdo :( 07:59:17 i guess i'm doing enough zig floors that probably it's about the same rate, it just feels more annoying when it happens on cdo :P 07:59:35 it was once in like ten tries for me 08:12:17 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r3046b3477412 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-selfench.cc: Disallow cancelling the Fly spell, like it was the case with Levitation. 08:12:17 03galehar 07stone_soup-0.10 * r7259121f0004 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: Check if transform would meld the last source of levitation. 08:12:17 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r5c1d877c114f 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix a crash when a pile of items goes past 32767 items. 08:12:18 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * rc71d92244eae 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Seafood has no noses, ears or elbows. 08:12:28 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r3340f3d29200 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Fix shedu keeping pointlessly casting at each other. 08:13:23 kilobyte: have you seen the screenshots I uploaded in #5325? Can we revert 79cd8e4d? 08:16:47 it may be better to find the real cause -- it's an ordinary image 08:16:59 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10.2-14-g3340f3d (32) 08:17:06 and these are two completely different encodings of the same data 08:17:20 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:11 galehar: what about webtiles? 08:23:18 (ok, it was a silly question, as it doesn't happen on most graphics drivers at all) 08:26:08 haven't tested it with webtiles 08:32:56 -!- absolutego has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:54 galehar: could you check http://89.206.35.133:8080 ? 08:48:43 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:59:46 The Websocket connection was closed :( 09:01:01 stock webtiles trunk (except for linking all the title screens to that one) 09:03:20 you mean that? https://tiles.crawl.develz.org/dat/tiles/title_shadyamish_octm.png 09:03:23 404 09:04:26 oh ok, i got what you meant 09:11:58 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:20 anyway, it's going to be tricky to test webtiles since it ignores tile_skip_title 09:19:16 hmm, would it be better to give ash piety depending on the number of runes you have when you convert to him, or just to remove the piety-from-runes entirely? 09:19:32 i mentioned it briefly in ##crawl yesterday and elliptic suggested just to remove the piety, which seems probably fine to me 09:20:13 (it's bad as-is because you can just hold off on picking up runes if you plan on converting to ash, and then get the piety from them afterwards) 09:26:30 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:37 -!- lord-naughty has left ##crawl-dev 09:27:36 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:52 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:39:13 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:50 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:39 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:07 -!- bhaak is now known as NetHack 09:51:22 -!- NetHack is now known as bhaak 09:51:45 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1198-gd2bcacb (32) 09:54:06 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:47 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 10:04:30 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:36 -!- tischler has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:03 MarvinPA: remove it. it's not particularly flavorful and ash piety gain is fine now 10:33:57 <|amethyst> Is the master version of macros_guide.txt the version in the source, or is it on the wiki somewhere? 10:39:40 I din't know of any such file other than crawl_manual.reST 10:39:51 (updated by "make rest") 10:41:09 <|amethyst> I was thinking about fixing 5571 (it gives "Tab or the function keys" as examples of unused keys) 10:41:49 <|amethyst> I wanted to change it to something, but 10:41:56 Tab in particular seems to be a pretty damn unergonomic assignment for the single most often pressed key 10:42:05 <|amethyst> insert doesn't seem to work in webtiles 10:42:25 <|amethyst> backspace is different in tiles and console (depending on your terminal) 10:42:29 (yeah I've set it myself, when autofight was still experimental) 10:42:51 <|amethyst> switch tab and f :) 10:54:12 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 10:58:21 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:59:56 0 would be near o, plus a nice big key in numpad 10:59:56 -!- tischler has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:18:26 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:35 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:22 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:24 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:25:56 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:46 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:26 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:35:37 -!- Blade is now known as Blade- 11:35:56 -!- tischler has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:08 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:41 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:01:51 !tell galehar I'm not sure about that autofight change... it seems rather limited in appeal (just people using darts early game) and it would definitely need a toggle of some sort. 12:01:52 elliptic: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:01:55 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:58 which autofight change? 12:07:09 <|amethyst> ChrisOelmueller: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4330#p56357 12:07:46 <|amethyst> elliptic: what about having shift-tab do that? 12:07:52 oh. hm, when i want ranged autofight i use f once and ` after that 12:07:57 <|amethyst> or whichever the 'autofight without moving' was 12:08:07 only stops when my quiver cycle changes (and that's good imho) 12:08:31 so i'd appreciate a flag to get the old behavior, definitely 12:10:19 |amethyst: I don't personally use shift-tab currently, so I'm not sure how well that would work... probably better, but there's still the problem that lots of stuff gets automatically quivered that you might not want to throw 12:11:33 <|amethyst> isn't that the case for autofight-with-launcher too? (to a lesser extent perhaps, but e.g. arrows of dispersal or exploding sling bullets) 12:11:57 also, I don't see autothrow as being at all useful after the very early game 12:12:25 javelins (and nets) are scarce enough that you don't want to spam throwing them at everything 12:12:50 <|amethyst> some players spend most of their time in the very early game :) 12:13:16 <|amethyst> (perhaps because they press tab too much, but ...) 12:14:12 |amethyst: I guess what I mean is that there isn't really anything other than darts that you want to throw all the time 12:14:54 if this behavior was added to shift-tab, I imagine it would annoy whoever uses shift-tab when they are suddenly throwing javelins at every rat 12:15:00 <|amethyst> true 12:16:21 I can see that auto-throwing darts is pretty nice early game though... just not sure about the best way of implementing it. maybe as an rcfile option for shift-tab 12:17:29 can't people just macro "f." to a key near autofight, I mean really 12:24:53 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:31:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:37 autofire would probably work better if the unlimited ammo change thing happened 12:49:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:13 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:28 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643]] 13:13:51 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:13 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:52 -!- tischler has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:43:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:44:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:05 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:43 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:35 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:24 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:17 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:03 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:41:30 The crazed ice dragon breathes frost at you. 14:41:42 name_adj should go away on polymorphs... 14:41:59 <|amethyst> aww, I like it 14:42:04 <|amethyst> and name_suffix 14:42:11 <|amethyst> "guardian serpent baker" 14:42:22 <3 14:44:08 <|amethyst> That said, I can definitely see the reason for doing so... "fruity boggart" 14:44:38 <|amethyst> "petrified wandering mushroom" that continues to move around 14:49:45 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it's a one-line change to disable it (mon-stuff.cc line 2754) 14:49:59 <|amethyst> just get rid of the == MF_NAME_REPLACE 14:52:12 what about making it an option? 14:52:20 not more options please 14:52:26 unless they are actually useful 14:53:06 alefury: stuff like 'crazed ice dragon' is great imo 14:53:12 good for immersion 14:53:45 <|amethyst> you could use n_spe or n_noc or something like that 14:53:57 n_spe? 14:53:58 <|amethyst> no wait 14:54:06 <|amethyst> that would usually be backwards 14:54:09 <|amethyst> hm 14:55:24 <|amethyst> Eronarn: says it's a "species" name, so the corpse should use the name ("baked spriggan corpse" rather than "spriggan corpse of baked spriggan") 14:55:39 <|amethyst> which I guess would usually mean it shouldn't be kept on polymorph 14:56:09 <|amethyst> or maybe is just entirely orthogonal 14:56:16 <|amethyst> there are an awful lot of flags 14:57:46 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:58:26 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:32 |amethyst: i don't know the current system but the way i'd do it is to have 'job' related (requires intelligence but kept on poly otherwise), species/appearance related (lost on polymorph), 'uniqueness' (always kept) 15:04:54 so a sickly siren wouldn't be sickly after poly but a spriggan baker might be 15:05:47 how does an ice dragon bake stuff? 15:06:21 kilobyte: Are dragons intelligent? 15:06:35 i sense fun with this when it comes to translations 15:07:46 yeah, that is a good thought :) 15:08:51 is there any reason it has to be 1:1 like that, with each combination being a property? 15:24:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:37:30 Revisions to recent armour tiles, racial buckler variants (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5575) by roctavian 15:57:30 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:19 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:56 -!- Sombrero_Mott is now known as Mottie 16:17:39 Hmm ... a working Crawl compile on Android 16:17:47 This is very interesting 16:25:10 getting crawl to compile isn't the problem, it's the UI 16:25:29 you can't do anything interesting without a good UI 16:25:48 probably would be worthwhile for tablets, though 16:27:14 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:15 Eronarn: I'm playing it now. Mouse control works fine; keys are the only awkward thing 16:29:04 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4363 16:33:28 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:38:48 -!- casmith_789 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:47:56 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:05 just banished myself due to disto unequip 16:48:06 and got this: 16:48:07 You are cast into the Abyss! 16:48:07 To return, you must find a gate leading back. 16:48:07 Item buggily placed in feature at (34, 38). 16:48:07 Level annotation: Grinder, Sigmund 16:48:07 _You sense a powerful magical force warping space. 16:49:03 <|amethyst> can you do a save backup? 16:49:21 <|amethyst> and any idea what was at 34,38 before you were banished? 16:49:57 Why do scrolls of unholy creation (formerly summoning) exist? 16:50:05 |amethyst: save backups are worthless in this case 16:50:06 I cannot recall a single game where I used one in an interesting way 16:50:22 <|amethyst> kilobyte: oh, because the item has already been destroyed 16:50:39 <|amethyst> well, at least it would let us know the feature, if he hasn't moved 16:59:06 <|amethyst> kilobyte: would it be worthwhile to add the item and feature name to that message? 16:59:40 <|amethyst> I mean, it leaks map information, but maybe it would be useful for debugging? 17:02:10 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:45 have you seen that? Someone compiled crawl tiles for android! https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4363&view=unread#p56892 17:03:45 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:04:38 !messages 17:04:38 (1/1) elliptic said (5h 1m 58s ago): I'm not sure about that autofight change... it seems rather limited in appeal (just people using darts early game) and it would definitely need a toggle of some sort. 17:10:29 guy seems to have hacked SDL support back into the game... 17:13:42 is that the same guy to whom it was recommended to hack sdl support back into the game? 17:13:58 WTF, actual working SDL again? 17:14:17 kilobyte: it looks like lugonu currently might give piety for banishing a plant? (with distortion) 17:14:43 didn't several people who knew Crawl's insides well try this and failed? Pure awesomesity. 17:15:43 elliptic: ok, that's definitely a nasty one 17:16:24 When did SDL break? 17:16:39 dtsund: 0.4 IIRC 17:16:41 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:42 he hasn't provided a lot of details yet: in short: pelya's SDL port; string-and-sellotape; blunt instrument to glwrapper-ogl.cc 17:17:17 yeah, if he described it that way, it may be somewhat painful to merge 17:17:17 the game does show a sdl splash screen when started 17:20:55 * galehar sleeps 17:21:39 [17:47:59] <|amethyst> can you do a save backup? 17:21:39 [17:48:17] <|amethyst> and any idea what was at 34,38 before you were banished? 17:21:44 sorry, I didn't catch this message before moving on 17:21:48 and I'm not sure 17:22:04 if it happens again I'll keep that in mind 17:34:12 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:37 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:14 -!- shmup has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:32 what do people think of simplifying the acid/corrosion situation by reducing acid resist levels to 1, removing rCorr, and splitting corrosion save between rAcid and conservation? 17:54:04 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:49 removing rCorr? it's the only way to get rAcid for 95% of characters 18:04:11 there's also no need to make conservation even more powerful, it's already usually the best amulet 18:06:35 something about how silly yellow scales are even if it makes sense they don't give rCorr 18:08:38 headzone: that sounds like it would make acid more annoying and conservation too strong 18:09:11 and yeah, there are cases (yellow scales) where rAcid protecting your equipment doesn't make sense, and amulet of rCorr is the only common source of rAcid anyway 18:09:33 so you'd very rarely be able to have rAcid and Cons at the same time anyhow 18:09:43 also, I have a technical question 18:09:52 I know XP gained from a dead monster depends on how much damage you did to it 18:10:04 but if you damage a monster, then the monster heals (naturally or otherwise), and *then* dies, does the damage you previously did matter? 18:10:42 only when a monster is partly killed by your summons 18:11:06 what if I, for instance, damage a monster to half health, then it heals, then I damage it to half health again, then it heals, then a summon kills it 18:11:37 I'm just curious how the game distributes XP seeing as how "damage the player has done" isn't necessarily the same as "current damage that was done by the player" 18:12:08 elliptic: i just don't understand why rCorr needs to exist as a separate category when only acid things corrode, afaict 18:12:30 why does rCold need to exist as a separate category when only cold things do cold damage 18:12:57 huh? 18:13:16 headzone: currently rCorr and rAcid are essentially synonymous 18:14:02 doesn't that mean there's a pointless redundancy here? :) 18:14:25 yes, but that redundancy is really just on the % screen 18:14:42 it doesn't mean you should completely throw away slime and amulet balance 18:15:02 that redundancy also partly exists to represent things like yellow scales, where the player takes less damage from acid but equipment isn't protected 18:15:18 it's not a total redundancy, just for virtually all characters who aren't yellow draconians 18:15:20 I'd be in favor of simply removing rAcid from the % screen, since it causes a lot of confusion 18:16:01 that might be more confusing since every other resistance to damage is listed there 18:16:41 G-Flex: it would still be listed, as "rCorr" 18:16:48 yeah, true 18:16:56 of course you still have yellow scales 18:17:01 and whatever else might give rAcid (does Jiyva?) 18:17:06 that would be good actually since it would also solve the "pointless three levels of rAcid" thing 18:17:16 not every random racial mutation has to be a dot on the % screen 18:17:25 see Ds super-conservation 18:17:42 elliptic: but if players associate "rCorr" with resistance to acid, and then have resistance to acid but no rCorr dot, it might be just as confusing as the current situation 18:18:13 or we could give yellow dracs rCorr... it doesn't make perfect sense, but a lot of people expect it anyway 18:18:35 yellow scales are the only place where rCorr and rAcid aren't correlated afaik 18:18:39 does Jiyva give rAcid? I forget 18:19:21 I think jiyva gives some sort of rCorr/rAcid that scales with piety and thus isn't really represented on the % screen anyway 18:19:39 I think that's the case for Jiyva's rCorr, wasn't sure about rAcid 18:22:48 hm, doesn't look like jiyva does give rAcid 18:22:54 not like it matters 18:23:22 jiyva could easily be given a form of rAcid that scales with piety like Jiyva rCorr anyway 18:23:24 or something like that 18:23:43 stuff like that seems to be given extra flexibility and isn't necessarily reflected on the % screen anyway 18:23:44 yeah, with titles like "royal jelly" it is rather easy to justify that 18:23:53 like Jiyva rCorr, Zin rMut 18:23:57 and whatever else 18:25:20 acid sources from non-jellies: yellow draconian monsters, 18:25:20 but yeah, yellow drac, yellow scales (which could easily be removed), rCorr, and preservation are the only ways of getting rAcid 18:25:59 then there's the bit where having slots filled with armour reduces acid damage 18:26:06 HangedMan: oklobs 18:26:16 spiny centipedes or whatever they are 18:26:23 oh right 18:26:24 spiny worms 18:26:26 not documented anywhere, % screen doesn't help 18:26:26 yes 18:28:03 I guess if you abandon fedhas for jiyva then not having rAcid might matter 18:29:19 the best solution to me sounds like: get rid of rAcid, have rCorr imply rAcid, give yellow scales rCorr even if it doesn't make a lot of sense, and have Jiyva rAcid protection scale just like Jiyva rCorr protection 18:30:09 well, I'd do that except with yellow drac instead of yellow scales and remove the yellow scales mutation 18:31:32 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:43 that sounds a lot saner than status quo, yeah 18:31:46 why remove yellow scales? 18:31:55 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:40 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:18 because people are resistant to the idea of letting scales protect your armour from acid... yellow dracs having rCorr is much more defensible 18:34:29 and there's really no reason for yellow scales to exist 18:35:37 I get the former point but not the latter 18:39:33 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:53 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 18:41:48 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:26 -!- Blade- is now known as sequel 18:42:30 -!- sequel is now known as Blade- 18:43:01 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:16 rAcid alone would still be useful, wouldn't it? since with less armour a draconian can wear they take more acid damage to begin with 18:43:55 Patashu: yellow dracs would still take less damage from acid 18:44:18 the idea is just to link it with rCorr since it is nearly so already 18:44:28 I'm just not sure why you see yellow scales as a mutation that shouldn't exist 18:44:44 seems similar to all the other scales mutations except the resistance doesn't matter as much 18:44:48 (except it does because rCorr is a thing you want to have) 18:44:52 G-Flex: because we have 1859074 scales mutations and yellow scales is one of the least relevant, yes 18:45:07 there being too many scales mutations is a separate problem imo 18:45:09 I wouldn't remove it if it didn't simply things 18:45:12 fr buff green scales 18:45:13 simplify 18:45:27 lots of different scales types seem fine, I think the only problem is that they're all treated as completely distinct mutations 18:45:37 so you get scales too often, too many different kinds, etc. 18:46:11 getting rid of one or two because they're the least relevant seems like a suboptimal stopgap measure to solving that problem 18:46:27 maybe get rid of one of rough black scales and irid scales? 18:46:33 as I said, I would remove it because it makes acid damage simpler 18:46:47 how does that make acid damage simpler? 18:46:48 I agree scales should be improved in other ways 18:46:55 if it just gives rCorr and rCorr implies rAcid anyway 18:46:59 it would be as simple as an amulet of rCorr would be 18:47:10 G-Flex: because you don't need to answer questions about how yellow scales are protecting your armour 18:47:15 oh right 18:47:26 of course you'd have to answer that about yellow dracs 18:47:42 just tell people that yellow scales exude acid-neutralizing slime 18:47:47 that coats your equipment 18:47:51 base slime 18:47:51 ew 18:48:05 there are a lot worse things in crawl then oozing scales 18:48:06 haha, base slime 18:48:14 yellow dracs are dripping acid everywhere, just look at their bite 18:48:48 if draconians can protect their stuff from acid, then magical acid-resistant scales can as well 18:49:24 yellow dracs are essentially made out of acid 18:49:49 removing yellow scales (plus the other stuff) sounds fine to me 18:49:52 fr rename acid blobs to acid dragons 18:50:07 what item-protection explanation works for draconians but doesn't work for yellow scales? 18:50:40 but yeah, I think the mutation system needs some way to categorize mutations (for things like scales) so that a lot of specific examples of certain mutations can exist without inflating the probability of getting that sort of mutation 18:51:04 (or just a way to weight the probabilities of mutations on an individual basis) 18:51:07 G-Flex: yellow dracs are acid creatures, humans who mutate yellow scales are not 18:51:19 elliptic: how does being an "acid creature" prevent acid from corroding your weapon 18:51:21 how about: yellow dracs quickly absorb/feed off any acid they get hit with so it doesn't have a chance to affect armour 18:51:34 headzone: scales could do that too! 18:51:52 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:00 G-Flex: something like what headzone says, and it makes a lot more sense with a specifically acid-themed race than with a random mutation 18:52:13 I don't see how 18:52:13 fr rename yellow draconians to acid elementals 18:52:15 doesn't seem like a big deal either way to me, anyway 18:52:38 random mutations do all kinds of weird stuff 18:52:57 but removing yellow scales probably isn't a big deal anyway 18:52:59 repulsion forcefield 18:55:24 it's easy enough to create a rationale for just about anything 18:55:40 yellow scales secreting some kind of acid-repellent (if not neutralizing) slime on your stuff makes about as much sense as anything else in crawl 18:56:05 undead corn 18:56:18 G-Flex: anyway I only mentioned removing yellow scales because people have argued about this before and I think winning the argument with just yellow dracs would be (slightly) easier :P 18:56:40 (hell it would probably make *more* sense than some things in crawl) 18:56:41 okay 18:58:22 so the plan is remove rAcid, make rCorr give acid damage resist, give yellow dracs rCorr, and either give it to yellow scales too or just remove them? 18:59:06 yes 18:59:19 \o/ 18:59:53 sorear the Farming Devastator (L27 MuCj) ASSERT((int)Buffer.size() == expanded_keys_left) in 'macro.cc' at line 546 failed on turn 202096. (Vault:8) 19:00:29 lol 19:00:55 that's an impresssive-sounding crash 19:01:19 unfortunately getting the crash log is work without sequell 19:01:28 I don't even want to think about how that happened 19:06:43 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:07:56 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/sorear/crash-sorear-20120418-235951.txt this one? 19:08:11 -!- Blade- has quit [] 19:17:39 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:06 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:02:40 I might have noticed a bug 20:02:42 but I'm not sure it's a bug 20:03:02 it seems that hitting things with a distortion weapon won't teleport them if you're wearing an amulet of stasis 20:03:10 the blink, banishment, and damage effects still seem to work 20:03:24 but every once in a while, instead of an extra brand effect, it says "You feel a strange sense of stasis" 20:03:30 I've confirmed all other effects work, just not teleporting 20:03:48 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:09:20 that sounds like a bug 20:09:40 yeah 20:09:54 incidentally, this makes distortion weapons a lot better since you can use them without teleporting monsters away from you 20:09:56 (if you don't want to do that, at least) 20:09:58 http://www.gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc line 2220 20:10:59 ok yeah 20:11:03 it's pretty obvious when you look at the code 20:11:05 I'm surprised lugonu considers it acceptable to use stasis 20:11:12 it does a check for -TELE/stasis before teleporting an enemy 20:11:14 but not before blinking them 20:11:21 Patashu: my question is why 20:11:48 I think it's for the case where the defender is the player 20:11:54 (and someone is beating you up with disto) 20:12:31 yeah my guess is that it's checking for player stasis even if it's not the player who's actually getting hit 20:12:36 if you read the code 20:12:38 that is what it's doing 20:12:47 yeah 20:12:55 I mean, I don't know exactly how item_blocks_teleport() works 20:12:58 but I imagine that's just a player thing 20:12:58 so yeah 20:14:45 aha 20:14:45 http://www.gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/83dafbfe0e55a3f86768197c5d9faab59b1dc3cc 20:14:48 this is the commit that broke it 20:15:01 revert it plz 20:15:52 or do something like if (crawl_state.game_is_sprint() || (defender->is_player() && item_blocks_teleport(true, true))) 20:16:29 yeah, just checking that it's also actually a player would do it 20:20:07 why does it check for sprint mode? 20:21:38 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:51 03elliptic * r1fc6ca0b95a3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (aptitudes.h mutation.cc player-act.cc player.cc): Grey draconian changes. 20:47:03 -!- mikee_ is now known as sequell 20:47:08 -!- sequell is now known as mikee_ 20:47:27 -!- mikee_ is now known as Sequell 20:47:39 -!- Sequell is now known as sequell 20:47:54 -!- sequell is now known as mikee_ 20:48:26 03dolorous * r6eacb65a337a 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Add formatting fix. 20:49:50 teleport is broken in sprint 20:49:55 (because it would let you skip like everything) 20:49:58 so it's toned down in a lot of places 20:59:17 oh okay 21:01:55 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:40 -!- Blade- is now known as Sequell 21:04:44 -!- Sequell is now known as Blade- 21:05:05 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:29 03dolorous * rd5247454cb03 10/crawl-ref/source/player-act.cc: Add more formatting fixes. 21:22:29 03dolorous * r8f1063e31682 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 21:22:30 03dolorous * r3c9c94052e47 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Add more minor cosmetic fixes. 21:45:46 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:08 EyeBee (L22 MiFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 435 failed. (Shoals:2) 21:53:39 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:59:23 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 22:00:05 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:27 03|amethyst * r3ad54f599ce9 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Don't block distortion teleports of monsters (Patashu, G-Flex). 22:04:48 <|amethyst> G-Flex, Patashu: thanks 22:04:55 no problem 22:04:59 thanks |amethyst 22:05:04 I did notice another distortion-related issue 22:05:06 by the way 22:05:12 equip a distortion weapon, then try to equip another 22:05:21 it'll ask you if you really want to unequip the distortion weapon 22:05:23 if you say no 22:05:31 <|amethyst> I think there's no reason to block monster teleports under sprint, so I put the is_player() check one level out from your suggestion 22:05:33 it'll ask you if you really want to equip the distortion weapon 22:05:34 it's weird 22:05:54 yeah, that's true 22:05:58 you get into this odd ARE YOU SURE??? loop that's odd to get out of 22:06:08 let me test it again 22:06:25 " Really unwield a - a +4,+6 executioner's axe of distortion?" 22:06:30 <|amethyst> I get them in the other order 22:06:33 I press "n" 22:06:35 <|amethyst> what version? 22:06:36 and then get 22:06:39 " Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)" 22:06:49 oh, pressing Esc at that point works 22:07:01 but it shouldn't prompt you with "wield which item" if you just told it you *don't* want to unequip distortion 22:07:14 "don't unequip the weapon" should imply you want the weapon to stay equipped! 22:07:28 ahahaha 22:07:30 <|amethyst> yeah, it treats it the same as cancelling the wield 22:07:34 when it prompts you which weapon you want to equip 22:07:39 if you select the one you already have equipped, this happens: 22:07:42 <|amethyst> i.e. it thinks you might want to wield something else instead 22:07:46 Really wield a - a +4,+6 executioner's axe of distortion? 22:07:46 Really unwield a - a +4,+6 executioner's axe of distortion? 22:07:53 it asks if you want to unwield your weapon in order to wield the same weapon 22:07:58 it's really weird 22:08:21 <|amethyst> probably the order of the checks need changed, but it may be a little tricky 22:08:24 this might apply to any other similar checks, like vampirism 22:08:27 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:08:32 vampiric weapons I mean 22:08:33 <|amethyst> that's worth a bug report I think 22:09:04 <|amethyst> s/ I think// 22:09:34 I'll write one up 22:09:55 for what it's worth, I'm on cao trunk: 0.11-a0-1198-gd2bcacb 22:10:24 <|amethyst> yeah, I just verified in trunk myself 22:10:27 03dolorous * r38ef76ed737c 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Comment fix. 22:11:31 in zot defense worshipping jiyva, should the neutral jellies be allowed to attack your plants to get at stuff they want to eat? 22:14:23 03|amethyst * rf4b9f3e4dfce 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Comment fix. 22:23:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:21 03dolorous * r3b1204dffc59 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix apparent typo in tentacle squeeze attack damage. 22:25:53 Trying to wield a new weapon while wielding a distortion weapon leads to nonsensical/strange prompts (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5576) by G-Flex 22:45:10 03dolorous * r972a45f860db 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix monster grey draconian checks for being submerged and extra balanced. 22:57:59 -!- Ganrao| has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:58:34 hrm 22:58:46 where/how do I look up the changes from a specific commit? 22:58:47 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:01 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:03:25 http://www.gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commits/master 23:03:45 if you don't know how long ago the commit was but know which file it was in, go to http://www.gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/trees/master/crawl-ref/source then blame/history 23:04:41 thanks 23:06:37 Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1207-g3b1204d 23:10:54 <|amethyst> G-Flex: so wear it and go Ash 23:10:55 <|amethyst> doh 23:23:15 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]