00:05:05 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:50 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:39 -!- DaneiTWO has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:46 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:45 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:53 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:37:58 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:40:05 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 00:47:12 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:07 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:03 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:10:54 -!- Ganrao| has joined ##crawl-dev 01:12:07 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:16:13 -!- headzone has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:26 03|amethyst * rbf713f6a5f3e 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/dc-mon/animals/ (orb_spider.png tarantella.png): Two new spider tiles (ontoclasm, roctavian). 02:08:06 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:59 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 02:15:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:13 -!- headzone has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:47 -!- Twinge has quit [] 03:28:10 -!- etcetc has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:24 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:34 -!- etcetc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:22:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:57:35 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:31 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:59:44 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 05:00:08 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1162-g18b1451 05:16:06 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:17:35 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:18:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:18:59 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 05:21:58 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 05:23:50 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:20 |amethyst: 833bd90 should be fine, update_screen only sets a flag that causes tiles to redraw later (and which is also set by viewwindow, except when running/traveling) 05:59:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:19 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:11:01 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:11:28 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:52 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:13 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:40 Patashu: why exactly would you stop Che Guebriados from you drinking resistance? 07:02:07 did I write it wrong? chei would stop you from drinking speed from the potion 07:02:21 oh wow 07:02:26 I am awful 07:02:31 yeah, it should say pot == POT_SPEED 07:02:49 :p 07:04:06 we could check if the card has CFLAG_MARKED 07:05:48 so, pass flags into the methods for enacting a card's effect? 07:07:38 not sure what would be the best way, but yeah 07:08:01 it might be a waste of time, too -- since you made the card do nothing good 07:08:18 well, the card wouldn't have worked anyway, right? 07:08:25 chei intervenes and stops hasting effects on you 07:08:31 since your change, yeah 07:08:32 well, I think 07:08:33 I shouldn't assume 07:10:18 oh, huh 07:10:27 if you drink berserk rage, chei removes the haste part of it but still hates it 07:10:36 if you drink speed, you go fast and chei just hates it normally 07:10:45 (and this is why I shouldn't assume things) 07:12:03 same for swiftness as haste effects 07:13:43 maybe the bug is just that certain decks aren't marked as bad for your god under chei 07:13:50 (escape, wonders, anything that holds escape/wonders) 07:14:32 and similarly, under zin decks of wonders (and anything that holds them) should be red, and drawing helix will punish you 07:14:44 and metamorphosis...that can turn you into a lich, so that'll lead to red decks under the good god 07:16:21 I'd personally go for banning gambling for Zin worshippers. Random, chaotic, and Christianity hates it too. 07:16:38 for Ely, TSO and Fedhas, it's only Lich that's a big issue 07:16:44 (and draining) 07:16:58 yeah, but you can cancel it 07:17:21 isn't there one you can't cancel? the torment effect? 07:17:59 you can't cancel that but as a good god worshipper, you can't be invulnerable to torment 07:19:27 hmmm, I think the reason why chei makes your berserks normal speed is so you can't take advantage of the berserkitis mutation to get haste under chei 07:19:31 (or something along those lines) 07:20:28 kilobyte: what about making Nemelex a chaotic god? this only matters for zin, right? 07:20:55 decks aren't inherently of nemelex, right? he just gifts lots of them and helps you use them? 07:21:09 yes 07:21:15 but we could make both nemelex and decks chaotic 07:21:45 (but note that if we're doing this it might make sense to apply it to some other random items) 07:21:55 (wands of random effects!) 07:22:32 btw did anyone make zin hate self-tmuting yet 07:22:38 because he didn't as of a few versions ago 07:23:02 as in, the entire transmutation spell category? 07:23:42 no, as in forms 07:23:47 Eronarn: he does 07:23:56 ok good, that one bugged me 07:24:02 (i noticed it while doing recite testing) 07:25:12 anyway, the one thing I think is unambiguous is that xom producing a potion effect should be considered an unknown quaffing of the potion 07:25:26 so xom wrath/the xom card/the wrath card... won't randomly piss off chei 07:25:34 * kilobyte kicks Sequell. Start working again, you silly bot! 07:25:36 (zin too if he could make you quaff mutation) 07:28:16 so, decks that need to be red: transport for chei, emergency for chei, battle for necromutation haters, deck of wonders for zin/chei 07:28:27 hmm, I wonder what happens if you draw CARD_SUMMON_SKELETON and you worship an undead hating god 07:28:30 (to wizmode!) 07:28:57 without checking: the skeleton will be hostile 07:29:51 ahaha I'm dying to vampire mosquitos 07:29:54 and yes, I thought that's what happened 07:30:01 *what would happen 07:31:52 vampire mosquitoes: redundant redundancy 07:32:03 so what they do? suck blood? 07:32:15 they should turn into bats 07:32:19 and be even more annoying 07:34:23 kilobyte: they are also undead 07:34:36 hmm 07:34:41 this is making me want to try a chei game 07:34:59 chei is pretty cool. do NaIE or something 07:35:18 or maybe NaCj so you get high level spells in the starting book 07:35:29 ??book of frost 07:35:29 book of frost[1/2]: Spells: Freeze, Throw Frost, Ozocubu's Armour, Throw Icicle, Summon Ice Beast, Freezing Cloud 07:35:31 ??book of conjurations 07:35:32 book of conjurations[1/2]: Magic Dart, Throw Frost, Mephitic Cloud, Lightning Bolt, Bolt of Cold, Freezing Cloud. 07:35:45 mhh, Cj is nicer for chei 07:36:11 !learn edit book_of_frost[1] s/Freezing Cloud/Condensation Shield/ 07:36:11 book of frost[1/2]: Spells: Freeze, Throw Frost, Ozocubu's Armour, Throw Icicle, Summon Ice Beast, Condensation Shield 07:36:12 at least once you survive to bolt of cold. IE will be easier to survive with. 07:36:15 !leadn del book_of_frost[2] 07:36:17 -!- jle_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:36:21 !learn del book_of_frost[2] 07:36:22 Deleted book of frost[2/2]: Swapped Freezing Cloud for Condensation Shield in 0.9. 07:36:32 -!- jle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:19 (or zin, to see what sticking with zin for a whole game is like) 07:37:50 03kilobyte * r27e984cb489f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): Trap unscaling, act 1: blade traps. 07:38:01 03kilobyte * r6a46e17d4c43 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix a crash when a pile of items goes past 32767 items. 07:38:01 03kilobyte * r05666b421924 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc xom.cc): Fix Cheibriados getting mad at you for certain random actions (Patashu). 07:38:01 03kilobyte * r48874b551525 10/crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 3 dirs): ontoclasm's tile for "dimension edge" in Golubria wizlabs. 07:38:01 03kilobyte * r5f909ff41f94 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemprop.cc itemprop.h): Axe a bunch of unused functions. 07:38:02 the tourney was pretty funny in that regard. I think HuPr was a nemelex choice, but everyone just left zin. 07:38:22 * kilobyte kicks Sequell again. 07:38:29 and even when a zin win gave like 100 points nobody wanted to do it. 07:38:50 not sure zin is really that bad 07:39:55 he's just good late, not early 07:40:20 so people tend to convert later on 07:40:26 besides, new Xom is a god of: find a big enemy, run around a pillar, watch the enemy get killed while you gather gifts and mutations 07:40:30 ... or not convert at all 07:40:49 a single ogre gave me two rods (crappy ones, but still) 07:41:18 zin still needs permaaallies for recite ;) 07:41:19 gifts are rare in about any other situation, but tension makes this farmable 07:41:19 is that really any worse than old xom? 07:41:35 alefury: good point :p 07:41:49 well, not really, unless were talking about reverting 07:42:06 but it sounds like some change might be required :P 07:42:18 btw, that neme change was serious - does anyone else have opinions on it? 07:42:33 making him chaotic? 07:42:40 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:54 yeah 07:42:57 i think only zin cares about that (meaning i dont give a shit) 07:43:02 Eronarn: I think a decent part of HuPr players during the tourney went Nemelex -- but I can't check due to Sequell being AWOL. 07:43:09 he's all about stacking the odds, doesn't sound very chaotic to me 07:43:13 he doesn't strike me as chaotic in the same way I think of the other chaotic gods as being chaotic 07:43:26 Patashu: yeah 07:43:30 he's like 07:43:33 the god of gambling addicts 07:43:36 they pawn off valuables 07:43:40 so they can fuel their addiciton 07:43:47 I'd call gambling a chaotic act, not stacking the odds 07:43:57 MarvinPA: i dont think zin would be cool with cheating at gambling 07:44:02 well, he encourages gambling :) also yes there is that 07:44:05 double bad 07:44:09 although cheating _is_ against the Law 07:44:18 yeah 07:44:23 against who's laws is it to stack magical decks? 07:44:24 who are you playing against? 07:44:26 it's not like you're ripping anyone off 07:44:28 yeah 07:44:40 if the deck's are nemelexes, even, nemelex seems cool with it 07:44:53 zin is just a hater. so i think he would hate nemelex. 07:45:04 I don't think zin needs to hate more things 07:45:06 that's why i was asking if chaos currently matters except for zin 07:45:08 I think zin needs early game incentive 07:45:12 (i don't believe it does) 07:46:40 MarvinPA: in my mind, decks are like tarot cards. its a prophecy. maybe the magic of the deck fulfills the prophecy when you draw a card. maybe it would have happened anyway, even without you drawing the card. nobody (except maybe nemelex) knows. 07:46:40 hmm i thought monsters weren't supposed to be able to place multiple malign gateways anymore 07:46:54 that doesnt exactly go well with evocations improving the effects, but i dont care 07:47:08 also, kilobyte: what are your thoughts about making potentially god violating decks red, instead, vs making them only violate if you knew what the card was, vs making the effects not happen? 07:47:30 Patashu: imo mix :) 07:47:40 prevent lich form, make the rest red 07:47:59 one card I'm uncertain about is flight (and potion) 07:48:06 Unless you are spoiled, you have no way of guessing that it will be able to cause a fast effect 07:48:07 potions being treated as unknown sounds good to me 07:48:22 So those at least should probably not anger your god 07:48:51 And I guess metamorphosis likewise, if we follow that rule 07:48:57 That leaves velocity and helix 07:50:13 i'd say the good gods should definitely block lichform, no particular preference on the rest 07:50:17 (oh, metamorphosis should probably offend zin too) 07:50:33 also, if the good gods block lichform, they need to do it in transform.cc itself, since xom can also make you a lich 07:50:35 and xom/wrath cards 07:51:36 i want an inquisition good god :/ 07:53:10 with invis and agony invocations :) 07:53:55 also something that helps you kill demons 07:54:25 maybe inquisition agony should just work against demons 07:54:53 would it then work against unique hell lords/pan lords? 07:54:58 if so, I want to sign up for that god 07:55:04 they have high mr, but sure, why not? 07:55:07 you mean, like the unquisition ever cared about not hurting innocents 07:55:22 i mean not "just against demons", i mean also against demons 07:55:31 as in "it should just work" 07:56:45 re unique pan lords, it could be resisted by HD 07:57:36 although i think that varies just about as much as MR 07:58:57 what might also be cool is randomly assigned assassination targets when you enter a new level 07:59:35 you always know where they are, to find out what they are you need to see them, and if you kill them within the time limit you get a nice chunk of piety 08:00:43 MarvinPA (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2055 failed. (Zig:12) 08:00:48 would have to restrict the available target types for it to make sense with an inquisition god i guess. at least only intelligent targets. also, strong ones. 08:00:51 oh hm right 08:00:52 that again 08:01:50 !lm MarvinPA type=crash -log 08:01:59 ah, Sequell... 08:03:34 looks like it's this one: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/MarvinPA/crash-MarvinPA-20120417-130036.txt 08:05:35 yay, can afford a Zig on D:1 (Xom) 08:06:00 hrm, trying to go to deep Zig in wizmode in trunk is a major pain 08:06:27 new xom effect: warp you to a zig 08:06:54 yeah 08:14:15 is there a function that returns true if your god hates the undead? 08:14:18 so the good trio + fedhas 08:14:19 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:38 okayy, well it looks like it's crashing while trying to generate small simulacrums? 08:29:01 are you making a new theme for zigs? 08:30:08 no, trying to figure out that crash 08:30:26 oh, I see 08:30:27 which happens in zigs currently 08:34:27 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r40a23a8e4676 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/dlua/ziggurat.lua: Ziggurats: don't persist jelly protection data. 08:34:30 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rbbe831f0636d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/dlua/ziggurat.lua: Ziggurats: get rid of stair markers. 08:38:03 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:42:23 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:55 Crash while generating Ziggurat levels (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5568) by MarvinPA 08:48:40 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:54 MarvinPA: is it reproducible for you? 08:50:04 not in my online game, now 08:50:24 I have a macro keep doing &^R on Zig:16 for ages, no crash 08:50:25 i could only reproduce it by spamming &R a ton in a ziggurat locally 08:50:51 on portal_branches not trunk, though, and monster selection there is somewhat different 08:51:02 hm, it was definitely working for me, got to zig:20something and it usually crashes when i do 0100&^R 08:59:52 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 09:00:00 hmm, I get that on trunk too 09:18:57 < alefury> what might also be cool is randomly assigned assassination targets when you enter a new level 09:19:04 i have had, for a while, the idea of a stealth holy god 09:19:17 zin = stars, ely = moon, tso = sun. this = god of the night sky 09:19:55 with the assassination of specific monsters, good-aligned, and stealthy... i am getting almost a batman-ish vibe :) 09:39:46 Offscreen monster death = out of sequence level up message. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5569) by XuaXua 09:50:33 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:57:33 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:07 03MarvinPA * r8ac099698461 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Display number of runes on the } screen 10:19:15 03MarvinPA * re85bd1f9de15 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-goditem.cc: Make vulnerability cancel delayed fireballs 10:19:33 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:31 -!- res has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:56 -!- joosa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:16 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:30 MarvinPA (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2055 failed. (Zig:13) 10:43:55 -!- res has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:14 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1175-g5f909ff (32) 10:55:59 MarvinPA (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2055 failed. (Zig:18) 11:13:21 I'm implementing a smooth stepdown function. last_step doesn't make much sense and is awkward to emulate. Ignoring it seems to work fine, but if you are aware of a call to stepdown where last_step is important, please tell me. 11:13:29 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:15:55 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:17:56 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:07 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 11:18:07 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:58 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:21:08 Napkin: er thanks for making the rss adjustments. i just now saw that it worked. caching caused me to notice changes earlier :P 11:21:26 cause me to NOT notice* 11:32:34 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 11:49:43 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:33 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:17 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:33 03galehar * rcbf5620c1ffa 10/crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Remove the special display of XL in debug mode. 12:22:43 03galehar * r25876b268b29 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Add a debug message when placing item mimics. 12:22:43 03galehar * r81dbb70c507a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (stuff.cc stuff.h): A smooth stepdown function. 12:26:29 <|amethyst> galehar: hm... that's convex for values less than the stepdown 12:29:10 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:09 <|amethyst> galehar: it also seems significantly larger than the old definition, for large values of value/step 12:33:13 <|amethyst> the old one (for last_step = infinity) asymptotically approaches base + 2*step . . . this one is unbounded 12:34:01 |amethyst: I think you are misreading the old definition 12:34:06 <|amethyst> oh 12:34:06 <|amethyst> I am 12:34:32 <|amethyst> galehar: never mind me 12:34:59 iirc this definition is a pretty good approximation to the old one except before the first step 12:35:33 and even there it isn't awful... different enough that we should think a little while converting stuff to it, though 12:37:20 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:04 <|amethyst> yeah, just plotted the correct old function and it looks good 12:44:18 <|amethyst> I do worry about something called "stepdown" increasing the value 12:46:14 <|amethyst> hm 12:46:30 <|amethyst> shouldn't that be ceiling_value - diff in the int version 12:47:20 <|amethyst> otherwise you could go as high as (ceiling_value + first_step - stepping) 12:47:44 <|amethyst> err, in the old one that is 12:48:15 <|amethyst> I mean, in the new version of stepdown_value 12:48:22 <|amethyst> not in stepdown() 12:49:43 yeah 12:50:22 actually I hadn't realized that galehar actually converted all old stepdowns into smooth ones... 12:50:32 <|amethyst> well 12:50:40 <|amethyst> he uses base_value before the first step 12:50:41 seems sort of a bad idea, for some of the uses 12:51:10 <|amethyst> so at least nothing is stepped up at the moment 12:51:11 stuff like nchunks = stepdown_value(nchunks, 4, 4, 12, 12); 12:51:38 I guess the rounding probably goes in the correct direction that nothing changed there? 12:54:44 it's probably fine, there just wasn't much reason to change a lot of the old stepdowns to be smooth 12:54:57 only a few of them that are relevant to player decision-making 12:56:29 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:33 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:50 hm, the randomized rounding should use random_real() < fracpart instead of random_real() > fracpart, right? 13:01:02 <|amethyst> also, I think that if rand_round is false it should round down, not to closest 13:01:06 <|amethyst> to capture the old behaviour 13:01:23 <|amethyst> for the nchunks case you mentioned 13:01:25 <|amethyst> : 13:01:37 <|amethyst> err, well, too many lines to paste 13:01:49 I think the error there probably never exceeds 0.5 anyway, right? 13:01:54 still probably a good idea though 13:02:32 I guess it might be a problem after the first step actually, yeah 13:03:05 <|amethyst> for the num_chunks call you mentioned, round-to-nearest gives an increase of one chunk over the old code for about half of input values > 6 13:03:10 yeah 13:04:10 <|amethyst> round-down gives only two different values (19 -> 10 instead of 9 and 23 -> 11 instead of 10) 13:07:33 -!- Fa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:43 03elliptic * rdbea63e7cebf 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Fix a few things with the smooth stepdown. 13:12:53 hopefully that caught everything 13:14:39 <|amethyst> why not just return immediately if ceiling_value <= diff? 13:14:43 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:49 <|amethyst> calling stepdown with max = 0 seems silly 13:16:50 hm, yes, that would simplify things :) 13:17:19 actually, what? 13:17:34 <|amethyst> yeah 13:17:37 <|amethyst> I just realised 13:17:43 <|amethyst> that means ceiling < first_step 13:25:43 <|amethyst> still, if someone does call it that way, making it unbounded (max == 0 now means no max) seems like a bug 13:26:15 yeah... I'm being confused trying to figure out the best way to address the ceiling < first_step case 13:26:58 <|amethyst> if (base_value < first_step || ceiling < first_step) return std::min(base_value, ceiling) 13:27:01 it's also bothering me that it behaves differently before the first step if stepping = first_step or stepping = first_step + 1... 13:27:25 <|amethyst> oh 13:28:02 <|amethyst> yeah, that if (base_value < first_step) (or what I suggested), should be outside the if (first_step != stepping) 13:28:49 <|amethyst> as it is it does step up values < base_value in the usual case of stepping = first_step 13:29:46 yeah... which isn't necessarily bad, but still might as well change that 13:31:09 <|amethyst> also 13:31:18 <|amethyst> rememebr that ceiling_value = 0 means no max 13:31:30 <|amethyst> your if (ceiling_value < diff) breaks that 13:31:41 no 13:31:49 <|amethyst> oh 13:31:51 the whole point of the if (ceiling_value < diff) was to deal with that 13:31:53 <|amethyst> right 13:32:09 <|amethyst> because it ends up calling stepdown with a zero max then 13:32:41 -!- etcetc has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:45 I'm going to change stepdown so that it treats any non-positive max as no max, I think 13:33:19 <|amethyst> sounds good 13:33:44 though now I'm wondering about stepping > first_step... 13:35:51 this is sort of a mess 13:36:30 <|amethyst> that still works, except you have to adjust the ceiling 13:36:33 <|amethyst> err 13:36:47 <|amethyst> you have to adjust it so negative stays negative that is 13:36:54 <|amethyst> err, nonpositive 13:37:00 <|amethyst> for positive values it looks okay 13:43:49 |amethyst: want to take a look at http://dpaste.com/733216/ ? 13:45:44 <|amethyst> elliptic: you're not returning anything if ceiling_value is zero 13:45:51 <|amethyst> because of the if on line 36 13:45:56 oh, oops, I meant to delete that if 13:46:05 <|amethyst> oh, okay 13:48:18 <|amethyst> hm 13:49:20 <|amethyst> maybe add a comment explaining why (ceiling_value - diff) will always be positive if it is used 13:52:42 yeah 13:54:29 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:48 <|amethyst> and while you're at it you might as well make diff const 13:58:04 -!- tischler has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:10 okay, commiting :) 14:07:40 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:07 -!- tischler has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:35 03elliptic * r705fb6b4a0e8 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Simplify the stepdown code and make it handle a few cases better. 14:12:15 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:18 <|amethyst> yay 14:19:14 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:21 -!- etcetc has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:46 -!- Blade has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:31 is it actually worth having three levels of resist acid 14:32:21 as a player or as a crawl developer? 14:32:22 it doesn't seem to be common on items and one level of it seems to suffice in practice 14:32:51 it's pretty hard to get more than one level, yes 14:33:21 I think having three levels is unnecessary complication, personally 14:33:26 ChrisOelmueller: wondering whether the game should have more than one level at all 14:33:35 or at least displaying three levels on the % screen 14:36:14 are there non-acid things that corrode? 14:37:29 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:14 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:56:21 seems not 14:57:15 in which case it would seem to be possible to significantly simplify the racid/rcorr/conservation situation 15:03:40 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:04:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:20 some of the checks in http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a69a7e39820f84e4b seem really weird, why shouldn't you be able to acquire blunt vampiric weapons? they aren't in any way unusable 15:12:57 -!- Fa has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:38 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:23 or should acquirement also check for the existence of animate skeleton somewhere in your game? (obviously not) 15:16:07 seems pretty arbitrary, and gameable in at least a couple of ways (cast lichform to be able to acquire blunt vampiric/distortion weapons, don't pick up runes to prevent acquiring blunt distortion weapons) 15:20:10 IMO: remove all the weird checks, never acquire blunt distortion weapons, never forbid acquiring blunt vampiric weapons 15:23:55 it'd be silly to remove the options on a good part of races because the rest need to butcher with a knife 15:24:07 and your last line seems backwards 15:24:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:45 kilobyte: people have a choice whether to use a blunt vampiric weapon, they don't for blunt distortion weapons unless they want to risk the unwield 15:24:55 I wouldn't mind allowing both of them for everyone though 15:25:01 (as in, blunt distortion weapons are useful for 12/15 of the game, blunt vampiric never except for 1/3 races who can handle food) 15:25:05 huh? 15:25:24 I used a blunt vampiric weapon with no way of butchering for a large part of my current game 15:25:31 er, my last game 15:25:40 you clearly have no idea how strong vampiric weapons are 15:25:46 spriggan/troll/tengu/mummy/...? 15:25:57 yeah, they're the best brand currently, I'd say 15:25:59 this was a demonspawn with horns and no way of butchering 15:25:59 "animate skeleton" 15:26:08 or just eating permafood, even 15:26:16 yes, just eat permafood 15:26:17 or disint on whatever 15:27:01 anyway they certainly aren't "never useful" 15:27:34 I wanted to say "you'd have a chance to get enough permafood only on a speedrun", but then I realized I've forgotten about sustenance 15:27:40 you don't even have to use them everywhere... you can use a non-vampiric weapon in easy parts of the game and then use the vampiric weapon for V:8 and zot and such if you really care about food 15:27:58 yeah 15:28:27 also you might as well use it in crypt 15:28:33 if it is a good base type 15:28:38 since no butchering there anyway 15:29:29 does vampiric actually work against undead? 15:29:38 no, it's the same as no brand 15:30:08 but a demon whip is still a demon whip 15:31:20 kilobyte: anyway I'd be perfectly happy removing all the weird checks for both distortion and vampiric, if you actually think it would "be silly to remove the options" 15:32:01 as MarvinPA observed, animate skeleton is a common way around the problem that isn't currently being checked, and you pointed out that sustenance exists... 15:33:57 looked at tourney's wins... indeed, among winners, out of 10 vamp weapons, one 3-runer had +9,+6 mace "Kiapt" {vamp, +Inv} 15:34:14 (wielded at the time of ascending, not necessarily used through the game) 15:34:53 blunt vamp weapons don't generate currently except randarts and on certain monsters, iirc 15:35:18 by the way, I never got around to analyzing the morgues... if you want them collected but in the raw form, just say so 15:35:47 also a lot of people aren't going to be wielding a vamp weapon on orbrun if they have a good alternative, for obvious reasons 15:35:58 no? I had a vamp whip on D:1 today. 15:38:03 eveningstar, morningstar, {demon ,}whip, spear, {demon ,}trident can be vamp on ordinary floor items, the rest can't 15:38:15 hm... looks like the following blunt weapons can: eveningstar, morningstar, whip, spear, trident, dwhip, dtrident 15:38:24 more than I thought 15:39:40 no monster generates with vamp weapons, except for the regular brand chance on those items 15:40:32 yeah, I was confused because of the demon weapon monsters 15:41:27 balrugs don't even get GOOD_ITEM 15:41:29 probably I didn't know about the morningstar/whip/spear/trident because I don't try those very often, I guess 15:45:57 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:07 03kilobyte * rd181e100526d 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Seafood has no noses, ears or elbows. 15:53:07 03kilobyte * ra8616f18a315 10/crawl-ref/source/libunix.cc: Make a gcc-4.7 warning happy. 15:53:07 03kilobyte * r1fbba0208288 10/crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc: Don't restrict blunt weapons of distortion/vamp. 15:53:58 the only problematic bit about acquiring distortion is that its potentially harmful to wield-id, and that applies to sharp weapons as well. 15:55:23 I really wonder why distortion is used so little 15:56:03 best damage per turn except for high-Necro pain, allows keeping distance 15:57:45 as a primary melee fighter you wont want to keep distance 15:57:46 kilobyte: (a) people worry about the XP loss (b) "keeping distance" from *taurs isn't great 15:57:50 and swapping is good 15:58:17 for example, keeping distance is especially good if you can swap to a ranged weapon. 15:59:00 using a disto weapon to actually kill things is awfully annoying 15:59:20 few people use ranged weapons, it's usually spells 15:59:36 people using spells usually like to be able to swap to an enhancer staff 15:59:50 st_: because of teleport, yeah. Blink isn't that bad. 16:00:04 I've found that early disto on a caster is quite nice, until you start having staves you want to use 16:01:08 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:22 mainly I like disto weapons either late game (when I don't care so much about killing monsters for good) or on stabbers (when it is a good backup plan) 16:02:13 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:38 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:41 its pretty great on casters and stabbers, yeah. people who use their weapon as their primary source of damage (prime target for weapon acquirement) dont get much use out of it. 16:03:16 of course getting something you dont want from acquirement is totally okay :P 16:03:24 in my only game when I had a serious choice, I ended up using a +6,+4 sabre {holy, rC++} 99% of the time over a +9,+9 distortion quickblade, even in Pan and hells 16:03:27 its impossible to make everyone happy 16:04:13 (sorry to come into the middle of things, but is this discussion about distortion?) 16:04:15 disto quickblades are pretty great IME 16:04:16 (other times it was a matter of opportunity not choice) 16:04:22 yeah 16:04:33 sometimes I've used warp weapon + qblade, too 16:04:55 for what it's worth, I had one AK who used a distortion dagger for most of the game 16:05:00 lets not bring warp weapon into this, thats an entirely different scenario 16:05:02 it was difficult but not impossible 16:05:14 and was pretty much my only source of damage 16:05:44 Blade-: 22:53:05] kilobyte * r1fbba0208288 /crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc: Don't restrict blunt weapons of distortion/vamp. 16:05:53 regarding acquirement 16:06:00 yeah, that sounds good to me. 16:06:02 alefury: (after a long discussion) 16:06:20 then: [22:55:21] I really wonder why distortion is used so little 16:06:38 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:45 I think for two reasons: 1) people find it annoying; 2) people are scared of it 16:07:10 also it kind of sucks for pure melee chars 16:07:21 not really; it's just kind of annoying for pure melee 16:07:23 because ranged enemies exist and tend to be rater dangerous 16:07:49 maybe it was because my haak had good defenses, but I never had much problem with ranged 16:07:59 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 16:08:09 gl fighting ancient liches while blinking them away from you 16:08:21 teleporting them away on the other hand is completely okay 16:08:24 well, yes 16:08:36 but the most common place for aliches is zot:5, which is distortion's strongest moment 16:08:43 indeed 16:08:52 also yaktaurs, boris, ... 16:09:20 on a melee char i usually feel nessos is bad enough, no need to turn every ranged enemy into nessos 16:09:21 it wouldn't be fun to fight every monster in the game with distortion, but highlevel characters can risk a couple of unwields 16:09:25 but yes 16:09:32 ranged enemies do become more significant 16:11:10 -!- tischler has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:13 people being too much of a sissy is probably the biggest reason distortion isnt used much, though 16:11:36 s/probably/almost certainly/ 16:12:10 since it's one of most interesting brands, perhaps it could be changed somehow? 16:12:17 I think that the XP loss is the main thing that keeps people away, like draining brand 16:12:18 i was not happy when my first oka gift on some melee dude was an exec axe of distortion 16:12:24 i had like 8 axes skill 16:12:26 people really hate that sort of thing 16:12:32 I'm wary about changing it much 16:12:33 not even necessarily by buffing, better supply could be enough 16:12:53 i love distortion 16:13:04 favourite brand in the game :) 16:13:04 elliptic: yeah, you hardly ever get to kill an unique or similar tough opponents 16:13:11 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 16:13:14 i too think its great, just not for every char. but i really like it the way it is. 16:13:24 you nearly always teleport or banish them before they run out of hp 16:13:40 I don't know how much XP you actually lose... but even if that isn't significant (and it might be), that doesn't stop people from hating draining 16:13:58 it's especially good for casters as an added line of defence when mp are gone 16:14:02 you still get half exp for banishing, right? 16:14:08 alefury: 0 16:14:10 you get xp for the hp you took off 16:14:14 ah 16:14:23 because i definitely remember leveling up from banishing something 16:14:26 you get xp for the hp you took off, yeah 16:14:28 or raising a skill or something 16:14:32 distortion keeps you somewhat short on xp, but also really helps with ninjaing 16:14:35 perhaps that half exp could be an answer? 16:14:43 it's an interesting balance that way 16:14:45 elliptic: i think people would hate something that took away even 1% XP, because people are misers :) 16:15:09 kilobyte: would have to remember it so you dont get 150% when you kill them in the abyss? 16:15:19 kilobyte: you mean using (1+damage/MHP)/2 as an xp multiplier? 16:15:19 but if its done properly it might help a bit 16:15:23 alefury: I don't see why 16:15:27 still doesnt deal with people being sissies 16:15:45 there's infinite xp in abyss, why worry about people getting xp for the "same" monster twice? 16:16:31 i mean just look at the tavern. people cry about wield-id distortion being a death sentence, because oh no, low level abyss. and of course theyre too fucking stupid to just kill stuff with their awesome shiny weapon. 16:16:50 there was one really fucking stupid thread about it. 16:16:52 that sounds more like a player-end problem than a development-end problem, though 16:17:15 kilobyte: oh, also, it would be good if banishing monsters gave the same lugonu piety as killing them 16:17:24 it definitely is a player-end problem 16:18:11 that thread made me so angry 16:18:36 me too 16:19:30 only thing i'd change about distortion is making daggers easier to find 16:19:38 but to solve the perceived distortion "problem" and make stupid people happy, it seems like it'd have to be made a lot more boring 16:20:02 elliptic: if you pacify then kill someone, you can at most get the rest 16:20:29 kilobyte: you don't need to go to abyss for that 16:21:07 mhh, true. also you have to fight them all over again, so its not like its free exp 16:21:12 if you banish a monster and then find it in abyss, how do you even know it was the same one unless it was a unique? 16:21:17 in really hostlile terrain, even 16:21:19 elliptic: not sure what you meant by "using (1+damage/MHP)/2 as an xp multiplier" 16:21:40 elliptic: yeah, good point 16:21:59 kilobyte: my understanding is that currently you get (damage done / MHP) XP from banishing a monster 16:22:05 currently you can get 199% the xp by banishing someone at 1hp left then killing them in the Abyss 16:22:13 yeah 16:22:19 you said something about half xp 16:22:25 elliptic: like summoning 16:22:28 ok I get it now 16:22:47 half + x 16:23:44 I think a flat 50% might make more sense, actually... but it might actually decrease XP gain compared to the current system 16:24:04 I think it would. 16:24:20 with the damage distortion does, probably 16:24:37 which makes little sense, since almost killing with distortion and then banishing is as much "work" as killing something with something else 16:24:45 having some xp loss is fine in any case, on the chars it works well for distortion is really strong. most of the exp loss is from teleport anyway i think. 16:24:55 it would turn banishment at low hp into a punishment 16:24:58