00:03:45 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1092-g35957bf (32) 00:11:16 -!- etecetc has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:13:55 -!- faze has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:56 -!- PatashuXantheres is now known as Patashu 00:20:00 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1092-g35957bf 00:27:12 what is the value of GOURMAND_MAX? 00:27:23 I see it's used in food.cc but not where it's inherited from 00:47:31 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:41 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:08 |amethyst: try the "Move Issue" button instead of "Update Issue" 01:17:08 Napkin: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:31:15 -!- Dixie_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:19 -!- Dixie_ is now known as Dixbert 01:31:57 doesn't seem like I can add a new colour using colour.add_colour even if I copy the one in syntax.txt, maybe I'm missing something 01:36:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:44:28 -!- faze has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:29 -!- djinni has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:46:29 -!- ivan`` has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:48:04 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:48 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 02:14:58 -!- gnsh has quit [] 02:32:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:41:32 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:53 elynaeandxom (L12 MuCK) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 80) (Lair:3) 03:05:57 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:55 !lm elynaeandxom type=crash -log 03:17:57 9. elynaeandxom, XL12 MuCK, T:31286 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/elynaeandxom/crash-elynaeandxom-20120411-074950.txt 03:22:46 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:25:59 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:27 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:58 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:57:14 -!- Galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:24 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 04:01:41 -!- Galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:09:56 since shirish ratted out to Guus Sliepen that 0.10.1 was released, it'd probably be better to tag 0.10.2 instead 04:10:22 since we took the novel idea of actually maintaining the stable branch for a change... 69 commits since 0.10.1 04:10:44 any reasons to not do this right now? 04:13:28 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * rf6952020e23f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let monsters waste turns casting Vampiric Draining on nothing 04:13:28 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * r3bb098469f68 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let monsters cast disallowed spells when low on health 04:13:28 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * rbd6a69568208 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let undead monsters cast Regeneration 04:13:28 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rec3ac396bf4f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Allow monster-on-monster IOOD action. 04:13:29 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * r3cc0a4aecb38 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Fix monster-cast Vampiric Draining ignoring rN+ 04:13:29 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * rd05342190da7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Remove a Terence speech line 04:13:39 03MarvinPA 07stone_soup-0.10 * ra2c52dd5e273 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Replace "strategy" with "trap" in imp speech 04:13:39 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * ra72ecd73d8db 10/crawl-ref/source/dgn-layouts.cc: Don't let octa_room produce lava "floor" in Cocytus. 04:30:37 kilobyte: maybe also announce it this time? 04:32:11 there were issues with Mac stuff 04:32:29 there always are issues with mac stuff 04:32:37 GreatZebu did the builds but they're still not even properly installed 04:33:18 Nap King is currently mostly gone, and I didn't press the issue 04:39:50 what i mean: mac builds not being ready is no reason not to announce a release. otherwise, every release would be announced weeks or even months late. 04:42:44 alefury: could you check the descriptions on http://sprunge.us/OjFF ? They are a part of a bugfix I want to pick for 0.10, but seem too ugly to live. 04:44:40 im not a native english speaker, and horrible at writing even in german. 04:44:58 i agree theyre pretty ugly, but i cant come up with something better 04:46:52 the first one seems pretty okay to me 04:47:33 s/A rock-blocked tunnel/A tunnel blocked by rubble/ maybe 04:53:45 I don't get what's the purpose of having the original tunnel blocked and a fresh one next to it 04:53:56 and maybe something like "A draft of cool air flows from this passage" for #2 04:55:25 kilobyte: its not a proper portal, so there needs to be some nonmagical explanation for being able to pass it only once. also it prevents accidentally exiting by pressing < twice 04:56:14 03kilobyte * rc1d7227aa2c5 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-goditem.cc: Fix a crash in detect_monsters. 04:56:17 headzone: sounds weird as a whole description, would be good as a part of it IMO 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1072-ga149898 05:04:51 -!- PatashuXantheres has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:49 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:10:19 "An unstable passage in the volcanic rock, admitting a draft of cool air from beyond." :) 05:12:10 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * r7ff52721aa18 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: A betterer desc for Volcano exits (headzone) 05:16:28 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:36 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:57 -!- PatashuXantheres has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:54:51 ToBeFree (L2 MiFi) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 934 failed. (D:1) 05:55:53 ToBeFree (L2 MiFi) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 934 failed. (D:1) 05:57:02 !lm ToBeFree type=crash -log 05:57:02 2. ToBeFree, XL2 MiFi, T:649 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/ToBeFree/crash-ToBeFree-20120411-105548.txt 06:01:48 yep, what I was doing: 06:01:52 I added a macro, 06:01:55 to key ö 06:02:05 the macro should contain: 06:02:14 \{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9} etc. 06:02:28 I first wrote the \{\{\{\{\{\{\{\{ stuff, 06:02:39 then I filled it with 9}9}9}9} 06:02:54 while filling it, the macro got too long, I think 06:02:58 then it crashed 06:03:07 my save game still exists and works, however 06:12:46 I can't seem to reproduce it doing just that, although I noticed some odity: somehow the macro became just \{0}9}9}9}9}9}9}9} 06:13:14 it may depend on the exact screen size and the number of \{\{\{ and 9}9}9}, I guess 06:14:32 I think so, too 06:15:18 I used a Linux tty by pressing Ctrl+Alt+F4 06:15:26 because I like fullscreen crawl :D 06:15:57 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:25 if you use Linux, too, you might want to try that to reproduce it^^ 06:17:09 \{0}9! 06:19:55 but ##crawl tells me that hugeterm is worse than genocide 06:20:26 tinyterms are even worse 06:20:57 I just want to be able to kill that nasty bat by pressing one single key^^ 06:21:07 I won't use it against hard uniques, of course 06:21:31 altough I play a MiFi, so fighting manually is not THAT different from using autofight 06:21:44 there is no special ability I would use otherwise 06:22:04 wait, did you really use \{\{\{\{\{9}9}9}9}9} ? 06:22:07 I used: 06:22:13 (not that it should have mattered) 06:22:14 \{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9}\{9} 06:22:48 and what is your terminal size? 06:22:54 umm - er 06:23:03 is there a command to show that? 06:23:07 (if you're unsure, "stty -a") 06:23:13 okay, one moment 06:24:04 speed 38400 baud; rows 30; columns 80; line = 0; 06:24:23 so it is 30x80 06:28:10 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * redbd9c812ee6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Fix broken portal vault exit renames. 06:28:10 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r37bbc545d89b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Extremely bad descriptions for Volcano renamed features. 06:28:11 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * rf8274cbfeca2 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: A betterer desc for Volcano exits (headzone) 06:28:11 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r181c05482e97 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Changelog for 0.10.2 06:28:32 what is tinyterm? 06:28:51 the minimum size 06:28:58 80x24 or something 06:29:27 tinyterm's the best <3 06:29:46 have you played brogue? 06:29:52 ToBeFree: yay, managed to reliably reproduce this, thanks! 06:29:54 me? a bit 06:30:01 :D 06:30:08 it looks so incredibly much better than crawl 06:30:18 brogue has a fixed term size of 100 x something 06:30:20 because it doesnt use a fucking tiny term 06:30:25 and doesn't even have a console mode 06:30:32 brogue? :-) 06:30:35 no, it looks better than crawl because it uses a great palette 06:30:45 even though it makes it hard to tell where on earth a monster is sometimes 06:30:48 also colors, yes 06:30:59 colors, and how they change 06:31:02 that's all there is to it 06:31:22 they could have used 256 colour mode instead of that libtcod crap 06:31:27 the dynamics of water, gas and lava are very nice 06:31:37 kilobyte: why is crawl not 256 colors again? 06:32:18 it would be so awful is crawl looked like brogue 06:32:39 yeah, the shading stuff wouldnt work so well 06:32:49 alefury: 1. a load of places assume the colour takes no more than 8 bits (including elemental colours), 2. there's a need to support all terminals, not merely a graphical mode like brogue does 06:32:56 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:256colors ? 06:33:58 by 2., I mean, if someone is playing with 256 colours (a non-standard extension), people watching the game via DGL or a ttyrec would see breakage if their terminal doesn't have that 06:34:27 did you guys need messages for donald in spider nest? I came up with a bunch: http://pastebin.com/9EXgaeBn 06:35:03 and whoever came up with that extension was on crack, since it breaks the syntax of SGR codes, and in a way that conflicts with existing codes if \e[38m is not recognized 06:35:10 that could be solved by standardized ttyrecs/console output from unified webtiles 06:36:53 Patashu: that's beady, not beedy 06:37:00 Patashu: don't you mean for those to be in addition to existing Donald-in-Spider ones? 06:37:06 "I miss the Snake Pit already." <3 06:37:08 are there some? 06:37:59 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:15 I couldn't find where they're written, maybe I'm looking in the wrong branch 06:38:25 "They should have asked me where to place the rune. I have plenty of ideas that don't involve poison or water.", haha 06:38:51 "You know that feeling of being watched by someone? I hate that.", good one too 06:38:54 "They should have asked me where to place the rune. I have plenty of ideas that don't involve poison or water." 06:38:55 i'll stop quoting now 06:38:56 <3 06:39:07 oh damn, i am too late 06:39:08 umm, 06:39:11 trunk has: 06:39:11 @The_monster@ says, "THEY are watching. It's a conspiracy, you know." 06:39:11 @The_monster@ says, "Don't you hate surveillance?" 06:39:39 there are probably a few too many (in Patashu's), but some are quite good 06:39:40 why is Ctrl+G unable to travel out of a sewer even if I stand directly next to the exit? 06:39:45 you don't have to use them all 06:39:48 I typed as many as I could think of 06:40:01 wouldn't be THAT hard to implement, would it? 06:40:39 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:56 ToBeFree: right now all places outside the main dungeon have that hard-coded 06:41:11 yes, but why? 06:41:25 that's prone to mistypes anyway 06:41:50 ? 06:41:54 mistypes? 06:42:20 simply add a forced Y/N question if you mean the Ctrl+G thing :-) 06:42:33 yeah, that 06:42:48 i just X, tab 06:43:01 or <, maybe both work 06:43:23 hmm, donald also has nothing for Lair and Hall of Zot 06:43:31 (and Abyss and Pandemonium and the Hells, I suppose) 06:44:19 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:46:17 he can't spawn there 06:46:24 can be banished, though 06:46:26 he can be banished to the Abyss 06:46:39 can he appear in Zot, ever? 06:47:20 you can lure him there i guess 06:55:13 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:00:30 jellyfish and so on can spawn in the abyss, right? 07:04:08 shouldn't, not sure if that's fixed or not 07:04:26 I'm trying to recall if I've seen water dwelling/lava dwelling life in the abyss 07:04:29 or if I'm mixing it up with something else 07:04:32 for one of my donald lines 07:13:01 reproducible crash in line_reader (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5554) by KiloByte 07:26:09 Patashu: they can currently spawn in the starting area, but according to kilobyte this is fixed in portal_branches 07:51:57 http://pastebin.com/eZ5yJrNR < donald abyss, zot, lair 07:55:59 I think that's every area except for pandemonium/hells 07:57:24 there's no way to get him into Pan 07:57:31 right, which is why I'm not bothering 07:57:53 but it would be funny for him to have stories of getting to all the unique pan levels, and leaving each without the rune 07:59:15 e.g. 'I hate executioners. I hope that place didn't have anything special, because I won't be going there again.' 08:00:30 <|amethyst> what if you abyss him then enter the abyss from pan? 08:00:40 <|amethyst> then leave the abyss with him standing next to you 08:01:37 heh, indeed. I don't think it makes sense to give him such speech just for Ragdoll, though :p 08:01:37 <|amethyst> (of course, then speech about having visited the other levels of pan wouldn't make sense) 08:01:49 <|amethyst> heh 08:03:04 also, I just realized you'd see donald hall of zot speech in zot defense 08:03:08 that would be an easier way to see it 08:03:25 (well, assuming zot defense counts as being in the hall of zot, as opposed to just being in the dungeon) 08:04:07 <|amethyst> Patashu: pretty sure ZotDef counts as D:1 08:05:45 the best donald lines are the vaults lines, in any csae 08:05:50 so succint, I can never outdo that 08:08:17 btw, these lines for elven halls donald are outdated, since the halls are only 5 levels deep now 08:08:21 @The_monster@ says, "This place goes on forever. I hate that." 08:08:23 @The_monster@ says, "This place goes down forever. Maybe there are turtles at the bottom." 08:19:42 did the religion-based donald lines make it in yet 08:20:54 I know he uses the no-god lines 08:22:16 03galehar * readd7590f22d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc options.h wiz-fsim.cc wiz-you.cc wiz-you.h): New option: fsim_scale. 08:22:16 03galehar * r186a33877e7e 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Fix fsim XL mode not restoring XL and HP properly. 08:22:16 03galehar * r861535cb3590 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Fix fsim with monster distortion. 08:22:16 03galehar * reb3a0eea4b22 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc wiz-fsim.cc): fsim: fix accuracy calculation in defense mode. 08:22:17 03galehar * r4b94d4bcab54 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/fight_simulator.txt source/command.cc): Document the new fight simulator. 08:22:17 03galehar * r62f9d41dd674 10/crawl-ref/source/stuff.cc: Fix a typo. 08:22:41 flight simulator? 08:22:48 <|amethyst> fight 08:22:53 oh wow 08:22:57 I can't read at all 08:29:14 <|amethyst> I'm not sure if that last one really was a typo 08:29:42 <|amethyst> but I guess it's clear either way 08:31:18 <|amethyst> hm... well, I guess the loop can be exited by the normal means (loop condition becomes false), so "iff" isn't right after all 08:39:54 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:59 <|amethyst> kilobyte: should the input line reader even do word-wrapping? 08:54:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:35 |amethyst: not sure, but there's an issue with 1. combining characters (0-width, need to be kept together with the preceeding char) and 2. CJK (2-width, may need a space if there's an odd number of column or an odd number of non-CJK characters before) 08:55:08 so at least a very rudimentary kind of wrapping is needed -- ie, more complex than dividing the number of characters by the screen width 08:56:03 <|amethyst> actually it looks like a lot of the code there does try to handle character width 08:56:32 <|amethyst> ncx in particular does seem to be computed using character width 08:57:35 this crash here is on plain 1-byte ASCII though 08:57:55 <|amethyst> yeah 08:58:47 <|amethyst> if we character-wrap then what I was trying at first (skipping extra lines from the beginning) works for this case 08:59:05 <|amethyst> but there's also the case where the cursor is near the beginning, or in the middle, of the string 08:59:17 <|amethyst> in which case you'd want to cut off the end, or both the end and the beginning 09:00:09 <|amethyst> and cjk characters starting in the last column could still cause overflow 09:07:26 <|amethyst> anyway, I'd better get to work on non-crawl things 09:07:39 <|amethyst> if you see me here between now and next Monday, shoo me away :) 09:07:40 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:21:08 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1099-g62f9d41 (32) 09:30:12 03MarvinPA * r39b9a954b955 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Increase boulder beetles' speed and HP 09:45:17 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:34 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:42 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .] 10:48:16 Auto travel with obsidian axe (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5555) by Thurman 10:48:16 03kilobyte * rd39aadc699cb 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Confused speech lines for Ijyb (Patashu) 10:48:25 03kilobyte * rdb845803112d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Confused speech lines for Maud (Patashu) 10:53:14 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:09 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:35 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:43 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:39 niggergoku the Pandemonic (L13 DDNe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1417 failed on turn 18303. (Lair:8) 11:16:43 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:25 oh that niggergoku 11:26:57 -!- Blade- is now known as Hensell 11:28:27 -!- Hensell is now known as Blade- 11:33:18 !seen nfogravity 11:33:18 I last saw nfogravity at Sun Apr 8 04:46:51 2012 UTC (3d 11h 46m 27s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 11:34:13 !tell nfogravity I've pushed your fsim to trunk and hacked at it. I'm done with it for now. 11:34:13 galehar: OK, I'll let nfogravity know. 11:55:51 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06:42 -!- st_ has quit [] 12:15:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:14 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:41 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:10 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:11 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:42:27 03kilobyte * ra77249cae605 10/crawl-ref/source/ (branch.h mon-pick.cc mon-pick.h): Use monster_type for mon-pick functions. 12:42:28 03kilobyte * r8d4af86e179b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Move a divider comment. 12:42:28 03kilobyte * r1dc8ad506832 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Normalize all mon-pick depths on 1-based branch depths. 13:26:14 Ice Cave Portal "Place" is "An Ice_cave" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5556) by XuaXua 13:28:32 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:10 -!- qqryq_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:16 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:00:05 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:00:25 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:49 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:20 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:45 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:46 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:36 -!- shirish has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:33:20 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:33:53 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:06 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:35 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:20 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:07 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:05:44 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 15:07:11 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:25 -!- shirish has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:34 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:28 would any of you care to write an announcement for 0.10.2? 15:27:58 ohai crawlers. i just submitted the freebsd port for 0.10.0. https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3899 seems to fixed in 0.10. thanks for the great work! 15:28:12 ehm... wait. 0.10.2? gee. 15:28:19 hah, nice timing :p 15:29:18 seems i already missed 0.10.1. has there been an announcement? 15:29:21 0.10.1 had a crapload of crash fixes, 0.10.2 has mostly minor ones, but still quite a few of them 15:29:30 *crickets* 15:30:33 you see, now that we try that weird idea of maintaining a stable release, you can't have everything. If bugs are being fixed, there's no time to write announcements and shit :p 15:31:51 hm... not sure if legit :) 15:32:18 i'll write it. that should goad someone more worthy to step forward. :) 15:32:36 well. seems like i'll update my submission soon. 15:34:12 blabber: speaking of BSD, do you have any idea about devel/libexecinfo? It appears that if that's installed, -lexecinfo will allow for proper stack traces in crash dumps. I'm not sure what precautions one should do when using that library. 15:34:43 (in glibc it's a part of the libc) 15:35:16 -!- shirish has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:30 i didn't know about devel/libexecinfo. bit looking at the port it seems as if there are no precautions. 15:37:07 i will add it to the port when i am upgrading the port to 0.10.2 and give it a spin. 15:37:41 is there a way to force a crash in stonesoup? 15:39:45 &^C 15:40:21 k 15:40:41 you'd have to edit crash.cc and remove the line[s] that disables backtraces on BSD 15:41:14 defined(TARGET_OS_FREEBSD) || \ 15:41:14 defined(TARGET_OS_NETBSD) || \ 15:41:14 defined(TARGET_OS_OPENBSD) || \ 15:42:17 ok. i will give it a try over the weekend and report back. 15:46:12 there's no hurry 15:51:09 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:05 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:44 i just want to submit a followup to my patch before a commiter is starting to work on it. 16:00:41 if you're not sure about the Crawl side, you can tell me what's the best way to depend/check for libraries on BSD 16:01:09 such things should work out of the box with the default makefile 16:01:34 (I'm rather low on cluefulness about BSD) 16:04:21 Debian builds of 0.10 branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10.2 16:04:23 phew. difficult... it is the purpose of the ports to define and ensure dependencies. there is no simple way to do this in a plain makefile. 16:07:13 ie, there's no shlibdeps or something like that, right? All dependencies need to be specified manually? 16:07:15 in fact dcss is relying on alot of libs without ensuring it's presence. so i guess there is no need to do the checks in the makefile :) 16:07:40 yeah, that's something what should have been fixed ages ago :( 16:08:50 what I'm asking is: how can I check whether the library is available? 16:09:14 (I'm too used to autotools everywhere but for Crawl) 16:10:44 i simply don't know what to answer... i don't know any simple way to do it outside the port system magic :/ 16:11:13 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:11:31 the ports system is looking for the .so file. 16:11:31 hi all, does anybody know how I can view all the bugs about crawl-tiles in mantis ? 16:12:12 using magic to define the places where to look for it 16:12:55 well, have to leave now. see you later. 16:13:02 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 16:13:05 shirish: use filters in the view issues 16:13:13 Local or Remote: local 16:13:22 Console or Tiles: TIles 16:13:28 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:42 hey dpeg! 16:13:48 Bonsoir! 16:14:02 moin 16:14:10 Someone whipped the fight simulator into shape, good news! 16:14:32 seems I have misplaced the URL for your Brogue review, care to give it again? ;) 16:14:35 cat o' nine tails or the captain's daughter? 16:14:47 galehar: first of all is this link right ? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php 16:15:04 shirish: yeah 16:15:08 shirish: it is 16:15:23 galehar: kilobyte: thank you. 16:15:37 galehar: pressure! I'll get to that review. It's not like you're close to changing how Crawl weapons work, are you? 16:15:56 shirish: if you don't see all the fields at the top, click the little cross left to search 16:16:24 Where is the commit list? 16:16:52 dpeg: not any time soon, sure. But I'll get around to initiate the melee reform. 16:17:22 Blade-: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commits/master 16:17:23 headzone: any luck coming up with something semi-witty? There's always an option of nothing but a rought copy of the changelog, but that'd be somewhat lame. 16:17:26 Thank you. 16:18:35 dpeg: regarding fsim, nfogravity rewrite most of it, and I polished and documented it. I think it's pretty good now. 16:19:29 galehar: awesome... Darshan will be proud of you. 16:19:47 did he wrote it? 16:21:39 Not sure... he kept saying how important a working fsim is. 16:23:01 well, I think it will help with the melee reform. But this is a long time project. Will probably need a few versions before being ready for release. 16:23:48 kilobyte: good work on the portal_branches. Seems like you're making good progress on it :) 16:25:28 still got the whole level deletion thing, Ziggurats, and selection of monsters that's independent of absdepth0 16:26:17 for the last part, I committed the raw data to trunk rather than the branch, so it can be edited without conflicts 16:26:39 this matters as you guys seem to want to fix up rarities and depths of stuff 16:27:23 dpeg: perhaps you too could have some idea, especially about the early game 16:28:16 dpeg: it turns out geckos, jackals, hobgoblins have natural depth of D:6 16:28:49 so it's not surprising you get the same kind of junk you had on D:1 well into the game 16:29:41 yeah, I had a look at the early game monster pickup, it's a bit weird 16:30:25 all the challenge comes from a random change to get that early ogre or orc band, and weird interactions of OOD/rarity/depth difference rules 16:31:42 kilobyte: oh my 16:32:54 There are a slow and a radical approach: slow = decrease silly depths (e.g. for jackals, hobgoblins) by 2 or so each version until it feels better; radical = devise a new system. 16:35:10 given the number of levels, branches and monsters, a new system would be a huge work. And the current system works pretty well most of the time. 16:35:29 decreasing depths tends to have surprisingly drastic effects, especially when it crosses one of thresholds that makes something eligible for OOD or for normal generation 16:35:30 So I think we'd better tweak it. 16:35:57 it fails pretty badly on levels 2-8 16:36:12 this may be a matter of bad parameters though 16:36:30 I agree, small steps should suffice. 16:36:36 there's a few strange things. Why bats and rats are D:4? 16:36:58 D:5 actually 16:37:22 what? 16:37:33 case MONS_BAT: 16:37:33 case MONS_KOBOLD: 16:37:33 case MONS_RAT: 16:37:35 return 4; 16:37:35 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:40 hello is there a dev about 16:37:56 Infinite_Monkeys: there is 16:38:25 why isn't it possible to make summons follow you but attack anything that comes into view 16:38:30 in fact why isn't this the default 16:38:41 mon-pick.cc had some surprising additions and subtractions, I straightened out all the non-obvious quirks earlier today 16:38:53 I genuinely can't think of a situation where any other behaviour would be desirable than 'follow me and attack stuff' 16:39:03 so why do they just stand around until I order them to attack 16:39:15 it's tedious pressing 'ta.' every time I see a rat, even with macros 16:40:00 galehar: if you check out current version, the data there is normalized to 1-based depths for all branches (some were 0 based, some 1, some -1) 16:40:50 kilobyte: I was checking out some stuff in portal_branches, so I didn't notice the change :) 16:40:54 this seems like a thing to just test, imo 16:41:07 see what happens to monster spawns if you change hte depth 16:41:30 so there isn't even monsters native to D:1? weird 16:41:34 if all those bats get replaced by orcs after d4... that will be a change, but not a consequential one 16:41:57 so yeah my point is please make it so that summons automatically attack enemies or make that an option 16:42:30 Infinite_Monkeys: that's not necessarily desirable behavior, actually 16:42:38 Infinite_Monkeys: currently, summons will retaliate, right? 16:42:40 for example, it can draw aggro from stuff you wouldn't see if you stood still 16:42:50 can you at least make it an option 16:43:13 because as I said pressing ta. every single time a rat turns up is so tedious 16:43:18 it would be a good option, but probably it should wait until summons out of LOS are fixed 16:43:40 it couldn't be an option. It has a balance effect. 16:43:48 I've always been in favour of global modes (and opposed to commands to invidual allies)... an "attack" mode could be an option. 16:43:55 I want to like summons but god it's so tedious 16:43:57 galehar: yes, gameplay stuff is not for the init file. 16:44:03 no I don't mean that 16:44:22 I mean like pressing t-r to order them to be agressive 16:44:24 or something 16:44:30 kilobyte: oh, didn't know you actually wanted me to. :) can come up with something, would be good to mention in this announcement the plans for future releases to the extent they're known, e.g. whether more stable-branch updates can be expected before 0.11, dev focus on new vs. maintenance, etc. but i don't know any of that so you'd have to tell me 16:44:49 Summons shouldn't have special AI. The should behave like any other ally. And we don't want them to attack on sight. 16:45:12 Maybe summons could attack *when* they are summoned though. 16:45:21 why not 16:45:31 monsters attack on sight 16:45:34 galehar: yes, it should be for all allies. There would be modes "follow & defend", "wait", "follow & attack" (note that we don't want allies to go out of player LOS and attack) 16:45:37 why would you not want players to attack back 16:45:59 having to press 'ta.' literally every single time you see an enemy is surely not a desirable mechanic? 16:46:35 ta. is nothing i do with summoners every single time 16:46:36 I agree with dpeg 16:46:48 Infinite_Monkeys: it's not just a tedious keypress. It also has the side effect of making noise and drawing nearby enemies. 16:46:53 but yes, I'd like feedback from more summon players 16:46:58 headzone: 0.11 will be in time for the next tournament, probably late August. And I'm afraid I have nothing really to say, that's why I asked if someone has any ideas. 16:47:14 galehar maybe you could set it so your character automatically shouts at your summons to attack 16:47:49 or hell maybe it's a choice - make noise telling them to attack when you want in exchange for more control, or tell them to always attack and maybe they do so at the wrong time 16:47:51 galehar: true, but tedious nonetheless :) There is no reason why the different modes couldn't have different, constant noise levels (not to mention that monster-monster combat should make noises -- does it? that was broken at some point) 16:47:57 Infinite_Monkeys: but that would be terrible. Sometimes you don't want to attack/ 16:48:28 kilobyte: any thoughts on whether more 0.10.x updates are likely to appear? is there general commitment at this point to maintenance updates? 16:48:53 the times when you want to attack are exceptionally rare and it seems stupid to cater to these times rather than catering for the VAST majority of cases and adding an option to deal with edge cases 16:48:54 tw/tf/ts could work better as global modes, maybe 16:49:03 instead of just affecting whatever allies are visible 16:49:11 maybe it could work as a ^t mode. Follow and attack. 16:49:36 however, it would be more convenient until it put you in a bad spot and kill you. 16:49:49 well that's your choice 16:50:15 'better not add levitation spells in case they run out over water and kill you' 16:50:24 galehar: another indicator that Crawl has too many meaningless fights :) 16:50:26 could cut it down to just two options that way even, t to toggle following and t to toggle attacking 16:50:41 ^ 16:50:45 Infinite_Monkeys: sure it is. But implementing something that would only be used by players with no experience until they learn not to use it... 16:51:03 you could always just shout 'come back' 16:51:33 side note: why does every summon understand English for the purpose of following your commands 16:51:48 once the unique has awaken, it's a bit late to call your summons back 16:52:13 conveniently you have a buffer of summons allowing you to run 16:52:14 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:15 there are no languages beside english 16:52:29 alternately, they understand your intent because they're your summons 16:52:30 or, y'know, summon more 16:52:44 but zannick if they understand your intent why do you have to shout 16:52:50 dpeg: that reminds me! I found 2 lines of code which are responsible for bats and goblins on lower dungeon! 16:52:54 why not just telepathy them 16:52:55 because otherwise they don't hear you :P 16:53:07 perhaps changes to ally AI should wait until something is done on the summon cap(s). 16:53:39 probably, yeah 16:53:40 when will that be though? weeks or years? 16:53:45 but why don't they understand your gestures through glass :( 16:53:48 st_ put some good thoughts on that up on the wiki 16:53:49 headzone: it's pretty guaranteed there'll be at least one, just before 0.11 with a roll-up of all fixes. And who knows, perhaps there'll be enough fixes in the meantime (0.10.1 came after three weeks, 0.10.2 just over three weeks) 16:54:10 "You point your fingers in all directions like the traffic police man you are. Your allies are unmoved." 16:54:42 kilobyte: ok, that's good info. and 0.10.1 wasn't announced, was it ever actually posted for download? 16:55:33 I wonder if we managed to ask for ally play in the survey... I'd really like to know how popular it is. 16:56:01 (No need to mention that Brogue has an extremely innovative approach to allies.) 16:56:16 i think it was one of the playstyle options, yeah 16:56:57 MarvinPA: cool. jpeg is preparing a more elaborate presentation of the results for IRDC 2012. 16:57:09 hell maybe just make summons attack relatively weak enemies but not harder ones (uniques etc) 16:57:15 that'd do 16:57:16 headzone: Windows builds immediately, Macs not at all because I thought only Nap King can install them (and he didn't respond when queried) -- which was my fault as it turned out it was a matter of looking around, and I should have pressed the issue 16:57:36 03galehar * r33d24bfa946d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Remove the chance for easy monsters in lower D. 16:57:46 galehar: YES!!! 16:57:49 headzone: on the other hand, all builds for 0.10.2 are already installed 16:57:53 and linked to 16:57:58 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:01 I take it that means no more freaking, fucking kobolds on D:20 anymore? 16:58:10 dpeg: I put an implementable to improve gameplay with allies. Most of it isn't easy to code so I'm not holding my breath. I'll probably get around to code that myselft at some point. 16:58:12 Infinite_Monkeys: if you collect the ideas just mentioned here and put them on the summons wiki page, that'd help. 16:58:16 no more freaking, fucking kobolds on D:20 16:58:23 now that's a changelog entry 16:58:25 :P 16:58:30 except for vaults that have them :p 16:58:36 yes, vaults are fine 16:58:42 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:43 I can think of one with distortion weapons :p 16:59:01 kilobyte: ok, cool. that should be enough info for a useful announcement, thanks 16:59:08 dpeg: the discussions bit? 16:59:14 dpeg: yes, I'm pretty sure those 2 lines were responsible for the fucking kobolds on D:20. 16:59:30 galehar: cool... in so many regards. 16:59:50 Infinite_Monkeys: global options, what MarvinPA said, the various ways how auto-attacking could work etc. 16:59:58 galehar: i like the idea of summons attacking when they're summoned, if there's a monster on screen 17:00:10 where do I put it, the talk page on the summonings wiki? 17:01:54 that seems like a simple addition to make summ a lot more fun 17:01:54 yeah eronarn that would work 17:01:54 Eronarn: yeah, I'd rather encourage players to summon stuff when they meet monsters rather than exploring with summons around! 17:01:54 sounds good to me 17:01:54 kobolds are: native at D:5, rarity 99, so at D:14 they have effective rarity 18, at D:15 they're impossible 17:01:54 galehar: you know the summ faster timeout if it can't see you discussion? we could also make it time out faster if there are no enemies :) 17:01:54 (assuming no relaxing is involved, but on a branch with so many eligible monsters as D, that's rarer than once in the life of the Universe) 17:02:02 "The imps feel useless. They bow and disappear in a puff of smoke." 17:02:13