00:24:21 -!- spaceships has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:26:22 -!- shacklettbp has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:26:51 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:37:35 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:37 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:41:43 I think it'd be better for BH to meld all rings for Oc. 01:42:26 maybe we can use the = interface for ring switching. == 02:00:18 -!- vadatajs has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:13:53 -!- vadatajs has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:32 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:08 -!- lord-naughty has left ##crawl-dev 03:53:41 Some nice new title screens, one with an octopod too <3 03:53:50 moin moin 03:54:57 Hi Napkin! 03:58:31 hey Eino :) How's it going? 04:02:15 I'm actually testing the usability project's changes to the tutorial now 04:02:33 They've done a bit of trimming, but not really that much I think 04:02:46 The tutorial feels both nice and sleek *and* overloaded with information 04:03:06 for instance, talking about skills and suggesting checking out the skill screen feels out of place in the middle of combat and item use tutorials 04:03:39 i see :) 04:06:17 i'm trying to update monster 04:06:31 "monster" info via website 04:06:34 messy! 04:12:08 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 04:12:37 |amethyst? what do i ask the knowledge bots to verify the upgrade was ok? 04:19:13 -!- headz0ne is now known as headzone 04:27:23 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:31:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:42 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:53:38 making spider vaults that don't feel awful is proving hard 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1072-ga149898 05:05:56 |amethyst: i feel pretty iffy about the ring amounts for that change... sometimes 8, sometimes 6, sometimes 0? 05:08:12 also right now blade hands for octos assumes all tentacles change (so it has a stealth penalty, for instance) 05:09:26 one proposal would be to seriously buff BH for octos, but they do lose all rings 05:09:32 (they have 4x as many blades) 05:10:02 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 05:10:23 i kind of like the idea of 'your arms turn into swords' working differently for a race with so many arms 05:13:24 i feel like spider shouldn't be 8 though... any particular reason it's 2 for other races? 05:18:43 they only have two ring hands to being with? 05:21:45 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:04 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:36 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:09 Keskitalo: right, but where do the rings go? forelimbs? or chelicerae? 05:33:30 i think the latter makes more sense, and would imply two rings for all spiders 05:34:07 let's define 'arm' as 'grasping limb', is what i mean 05:34:47 hogs, bats don't have them at all; spiders can have multiple ones, but they're around their mouth, not their legs 05:34:59 Sounds fine to me, looking at backlog it the eight ring thing sounded like just a cute idea 05:35:07 heh :) 05:35:13 Eronarn: yeah I agree. No ring in BH and only 2 in spider form would be simpler 05:35:30 galehar: no ring in BH definitely needs a corresponding damage buff, though 05:38:02 more damage? maybe reduce the spellcasting penalty instead 05:38:05 It's been a while since I played a Tm, but I wouldn't think so.. back then I didn't realize how good Ice Form was (plus I played a Chei character, which boosted stats and therefore UC damage like crazy) 05:38:13 for octopodes specifically 05:38:52 Ah, you mean just Op. How about additional slicey damage when constricting with BH? :) 05:39:17 that would be a good start, but i think they should actually get additional BH attacks 05:39:41 since they're giving up basically all their 'armor' 05:44:14 other tm spells give them armour though 05:44:28 it could just be that blade hands is a poor choice for an octopode 05:46:27 Yeah, could well just go with that 05:50:18 what's the idea, to have them merge all rings? 05:50:44 by "merge" i mean "ignore" here 05:50:52 yes 05:51:00 this is very bad for octos because rings are their 'armor' 05:51:02 in all forms? 05:51:17 no... they get to keep 8 in statue/lich/appendage, 2 in some others 05:51:24 i read the commits, but it seems a work in progress 05:51:46 the "2" thing is what throws me off, i don't know how to make that work 05:52:06 absolutego: 2 works if you consider arms as grasping limbs 05:52:28 personally I think rings should still have their effect while melded... I'm not sure why any change was needed 05:52:44 it's long been bandied about as a possible nerf to blade hands 05:53:05 i wouldn't do it either yeah, specially now that it messes up op 05:53:06 unlike armour or whatever, rings are purely magical 05:53:21 elliptic: i am in favor of all magical effects still working while melded, but that ship sailed long ago 05:54:39 a buckler of protection shouldn't protect you while it is melded because it's no longer serving its function as a buckler... but I see rings as defendably different and from a gameplay point of view, all these complications with melding rings don't sound very good 05:54:51 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:27 elliptic: i disagree, a buckler of protection gives you +AC even if you're paralyzed 05:55:37 you don't have to be using it as a shield at all 05:55:57 eronarn: it is still physically present though 05:56:45 anyway I was just trying to say that I saw the previous state of things as defendably inconsistent 05:57:10 and defendable or debatable inconsistencies are better than sacrificing gameplay 05:58:23 if we're nerfing BH to not allow rings, we need to revisit octos anyways, though 05:58:26 re: blade hands, it would be quite bad as is if it removed 2 rings even on regular races... removing 8 rings on octopodes would take a huge buff to make it reasonable 05:58:50 Forms having drawbacks is a nice feature, and BH (IME) isn't quite interesting enough in that regard, hence the ring-melding suggestion (I might have originated it). Others have cited the spellcasting malus as significant, though. 05:59:02 the spellcasting malus is very significant, yes 05:59:56 BH isn't enough better than regular unarmed to be worth losing two rings, gloves, *and* having trouble casting spells 06:00:11 sure it is, early on... i'm not sure it needs to be good for as long as it is 06:00:29 early on you are better of with ice form or spider form anyway 06:00:35 *off 06:00:50 i usually go spider until lair-ish... lair is early :P 06:00:52 unless you have decent ac, but generally yeah 06:01:16 eronarn: I usually don't use blade hands more than once or twice through all of lair 06:02:07 here's an idea: what about swapping the relative position of BH and spider form? 06:02:23 it would make sense that changing your hands is easier than your whole body 06:02:36 and it'd then flow appendage->hands->forms 06:02:37 what about changing your hands into huge scythes 06:03:38 spider form is quite good for its level, even counting the dual school, so it would probably be okay with being higher level (especially since you don't need to cast forms as often as other spells) 06:04:33 elliptic: Ook, I'll trust your judgement on this 06:05:44 keskitalo: I guess partly I just see "melds equipment" as an overused drawback... ice form and dragon form already do a pretty good job of "sacrifice equipment for damage" 06:05:56 Keskitalo: Giving a more interesting drawback to blade hands would be cool 06:06:09 I just don't think BH is as good as some people think 06:06:56 now it's no wands, no throwing/firing, right? is it no doors yet? 06:07:12 you can use wands with BH 06:07:30 i thought that was something that went in this round of commits 06:07:33 oh 06:08:30 i could be wrong, there was a conversation about it a while back and then the commits themselves 06:08:33 they might not be the same 06:08:45 not being able to use wands in some forms sounds good to me 06:09:06 spider and BH at least? 06:09:09 oh, that was galehar: '<@galehar> btw, if felids can't use wands, ice form and spider shouldn't either :)' 06:09:21 not sure about ice form because nobody knows what an ice beast is :) 06:09:53 elliptic: that came up too... he was also okay with blocking cloaks for ice beasts 06:10:07 which would let us finally make them actually be consistently quadrupedal weirdthings 06:10:36 they're susceptible to lrd right? 06:10:46 hm. im not a huge fan of blade hands, melding rings makes it really meh 06:10:49 making ice beast and spider both meld all armour and forbid wands sounds good to me, yes 06:10:54 they are definitely actually made of ice, but the form is very weird compared to the monster 06:11:52 i also think ice form is pretty meh 06:11:58 not sure why so many people like it so much 06:12:07 how would people feel about a L3 blade hands, less damage, no rings/wands, causes bleeding? 06:12:07 spider tends to work much better for me 06:12:30 eronarn: forms that meld all your armour make more sense at low levels 06:13:02 i'd like to see more forms in general 06:13:13 oh, I didn't realize that the most recent block of commits actually did make blade hands take away rings for normal races... thought it was just octopodes somehow 06:13:16 that makes it awful 06:13:39 not really awful i guess, but really meh 06:13:40 well, at L5 yeah... but maybe it would be good as a lower level spell 06:14:18 "might as well learn it, my rings suck anyway" 06:14:31 tm already has a nice progression, why mess with that? 06:14:46 it really doesn't, also tm already lost one of its backbone spells recently 06:14:57 eronarn: it feels like a good progression to me 06:15:06 also which backbone spell did it lose? 06:15:16 evap (stretches recently, i guess) 06:15:23 that was *not* a backbone spell 06:15:34 it was for a lot of players 06:15:42 it was a backbone d1 spell! 06:15:48 *d:1 06:15:49 we removed it precisely because it was unnecessary and people still seem fine with Tm 06:15:53 and they got appendage 06:16:57 they're still playable but they are noticeably worse than they were before the removal 06:17:14 still one of the best classes 06:17:50 i'm not saying that they are bad, just that they have already been changed a lot so we shouldn't be afraid to change them more :P 06:18:58 i mailed galehar about it but i do want to do some stuff for tmut in .11, so that it's not as repetitive 06:20:18 some more forms, particularly higher level ones, and some spells with overlap with schools tmut doesn't already have overlap with 06:20:48 we already have rather a lot of forms... I'd be a lot more interested in non-form tmut spells 06:21:19 shrink ray <3 06:21:30 breathe bees, if i can get swarms in 06:21:32 a low-level flying form could be nice, but i don't know how to make it interesting 06:21:37 absolutego: sky beast form 06:21:51 yeah, there was talk about that, but didn't come to much 06:22:23 the level distribution of current forms: 1345678 06:22:27 since sky beasts are explicitly electric, maybe we could give them spines, but elec damage 06:22:34 elec + relec? 06:22:36 then the form would have that too 06:23:15 a sky beast form at L3 or L4 could be neat, yeah 06:23:29 elliptic: fwiw i had written the idea up originally for the Stalker book 06:23:34 there was an actually decent thread in the tavern 06:23:40 because turning into a semi invisible flying thing seems like a very stalkery thing to do 06:24:10 low level form that is not in the tmut starting book would be neat imo 06:24:31 maybe even another background could start with it 06:24:42 i also had an idea for an air/tmut spell where you reach through something's flesh and turn the air in its lungs into carbon dioxide 06:24:49 as a 'tmut stab', sort of 06:24:55 currently tmut can nicely branch out, but branching into tmut is kind ofh ard 06:25:25 why stop at co2? 06:25:33 co is so much better for killing stuff 06:25:36 the advantage of the spell being you could use it with a form, since it doesn't depend on wielding a dagger 06:25:52 alefury: I use ice form fairly frequently on IE or spider form on anyone... more would be good though, especially ones that aren't UC-specific 06:26:25 also people use statue form sometimes on earth casters, even with a weapon 06:26:34 the main problem with branching into tmut for me is that most early tmut spells are ONLY in the tmut book 06:26:36 people have wanted a reach-y tentacles form for a while 06:26:59 my last two hyper DDs used statue form quite a bit 06:27:09 it's great with a lot of earth 06:27:11 alefury: yeah... spider form is in envenomations at least 06:27:19 i tried using statue form in tomb with DD. it sucked :( 06:27:21 I've used it several times with people who find that early 06:27:30 wait a sec, envenomenations? 06:27:34 ??book of envenomenations 06:27:35 I don't have a page labeled book_of_envenomenations in my learndb. 06:27:42 ??book of envenomations 06:27:43 book of envenomations[1/1]: Spider form, poison weapon, summon scorpions, resist poison, olgrebs, poison cloud. 06:28:03 if we're adding sky beast form, also, we could add a form that just grows wings 06:28:06 oh, "the one with olgreb's" 06:28:12 since there'd already be a low level tmut flight spell 06:28:29 Eronarn: why? 06:28:31 Replace the Charm! 06:28:35 alefury: something to put in other books... or that :) 06:28:40 redundancy = suck 06:28:58 l1 bat form pls 06:28:59 not true at all 06:29:00 no need for two tmut/air spells that do basically the same thing 06:29:13 alefury: no, pure tmut... no air required, you are growing big wings 06:29:30 and one of them would kill your equipment and rely on UC, one wouldn't 06:29:49 hm. still sounds stupid to me. you would never learn both. 06:30:08 any form with wings should meld armour 06:30:11 alefury: exactly! that is why it is okay to add it to transmuter if they already are getting sky beast 06:30:18 because it won't make them any more powerful 06:30:30 Bat form with vamp? 06:30:31 however, non-transmuters might pick up the wing spell, because it would be a good way to start training tmut 06:30:34 eronarn: that sounds like why it is stupid to add it to transmuter 06:30:50 elliptic: it would be in other books, not the tmuter one 06:31:00 well, then don't put it in the transmuter book 06:31:05 more spells = more data to process for poor newbie brains = bad 06:31:14 er, oops 06:31:15 so adding new spells without any reason = bad 06:31:16 'add it to transmutations' 06:31:19 not add it to transmuter 06:31:35 especially low level spells 06:31:57 flight replacement might be good, though 06:32:00 alefury: i disagree with that, particularly for spells which have clear effects 06:33:37 there was this discussion about permabuffs and flight recently. it provides non-combat benefits with no disadvantage (except airstrike), so people would want to have it on permanently, which would basically remove most terrain hazards and mechanical traps from the game for a very low cost. putting a drawback on flight (melds armor and/or cloak) would solve that problem. 06:33:40 ??book of the dragon 06:33:40 book of the dragon[1/1]: Flight, Cause Fear, Bolt of Fire, Dragon Form, Summon Dragon 06:33:45 ah, it does have flight 06:33:49 put it in there 06:34:13 alefury: Sounds better and better 06:34:42 if we want to keep pure flight around, we could bump it up in level and bundle it with another effect 06:34:46 alefury: the "non-combat benefits" are extremely tiny... can't we just remove them? 06:34:54 like how tornado levs (flies?) you 06:35:10 elliptic: ignoring mechanical traps is tiny? and you want to remove it? 06:35:13 immunity to certain traps is bad because it makes traps even less relevant, and the stealth bonus is minuscule 06:35:18 alefury: yes, remove mechanical traps :) 06:35:37 i guess there's still shafts, though 06:35:37 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:35:45 mechanical traps hitting flying stuff is kind of hard to justify 06:35:49 alefury: most abilities that involve "ignoring" something are pretty bad 06:35:54 but yeah, melding cloak would be good 06:36:17 alefury: why? tripwires in the air or something 06:36:19 theres also carrying capacity 06:36:20 -!- absolutego_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:32 i feel the carrying capacity thing is completely backwards 06:36:37 I wouldn't mind removing mechanical traps though 06:36:39 elliptic: how would anyone not see those? the only thing that makes sense to me in this concept is "a wizard did it" 06:36:50 it would be easy to justify cutting it if it were wings instead 06:36:54 since those are muscle powered 06:37:17 and yeah, people argue about whether flight should actually boost your carrying capacity 06:37:33 alefury: tripwires through an entire square seems fine... think of it like a spiderweb 06:37:40 you can fly right into those 06:37:43 flight helps on some orb runs, at least 06:38:00 Eronarn: yeah, if youre a fucking moron with the brain of a fly 06:38:04 alefury: how is a thin wire any easier to see than any other trap 06:38:10 alefury: so you think webs should be removed? 06:38:21 i think that you cant just see them is stupid 06:38:39 you can if you have T&D :) 06:38:39 a web that can actually entangle a human-sized creature will be easy to spot 06:38:51 the dungeon is really poorly lit 06:38:52 absolutego: how so? carrying capacity for the orb? 06:38:54 even spider silk is not that strong 06:39:00 also, it's *giant* spider silk 06:39:05 ... 06:39:25 Eronarn: dont you mean... mega spider silk? 06:39:34 giant cave spider silk 06:39:44 elliptic: yeah, i honestly don't see why it has to weight as much as a boulder, it gets a bit annoying on low-str builds. although you'd know better then i do, you've probably ascended many more sprigs 06:39:49 *weigh 06:40:24 what other books would a winged flight spell go in? beasts? 06:40:31 air 06:40:33 absolutego_: I usually find that the consumables I use on zot:5 or drop right after getting the orb compensate for the weight of the orb... I have more trouble carrying all the consumables I want to zot:5 06:40:49 because static discharge wants flight, badly 06:41:00 alefury: uh, what? 06:41:02 alefury: it wouldn't have anything in common with the other schools, though... 06:41:10 have you *used* static discharge? it doesn't need flight at all 06:41:33 not getting zapped so much is pretty nice imo 06:41:39 but i havent used it much, true 06:41:41 maybe put wings in the tmuter book and book of the dragon, sky beast in the stalker book and sky or air 06:42:01 not wasting a turn and 3 MP is more important than taking 2 damage instead of 4 damage 06:42:41 my casters tend to have a lot of mp and not a lot of hp :/ 06:43:18 does L2 sound okay for a spell that's flight but with a cloak meld drawback? 06:43:27 i only played like, DEAE and TeAE :/ 06:43:27 you'll use static discharge early, when you don't have a ton of MP 06:43:50 eronarn: is this pure tmut or air/tmut? 06:43:58 Eronarn: no carrying capacity and stealth bonus either i suppose? 06:44:06 elliptic: let's assume pure tmut, in tmut book and dragon book 06:44:10 alefury: right, yes 06:44:24 i think air/tmut would be better, that way it could more easily replace the charm 06:44:47 and tmut book is full enough imo 06:44:47 what books does the charm show up in? air, dragon...? 06:45:03 ??book of the sky 06:45:04 book of the sky[1/2]: Summon Elemental, Insulation, Airstrike, Flight, Silence, Lightning Bolt, Deflect Missiles, Conjure Ball Lightning. 06:45:11 ??book of air 06:45:11 book of air[1/2]: Spells: Shock, Swiftness, Repel Missiles, Flight, Static Discharge, Lightning Bolt. Air Elementalist starting spellbook. 06:46:04 eronarn: probably L3 is better than L2 06:46:18 since swiftfly is gone what about cutting it from air, replacing it with sky beast form in sky 06:46:24 and give AEs something to compensate 06:46:37 AE have lots of spells that depend on positioning 06:46:48 the current AE book is really really good imo 06:46:54 so much synergy 06:47:08 can they do without flight? i don't play them much because i hate multizaps 06:47:28 Eronarn: multizap is just doublezap now, so it got a lot more manageable 06:47:30 my AEs never use flight except to cross water 06:47:42 I don't think they would notice the loss particularly 06:47:47 Static Discharge is pretty <3 nowadays, Flight is not essential at all.. 06:48:14 Eronarn: oh, you mean cut flight from air, not swiftness 06:48:15 ime (which is into midgame or so, I think I killed a good AE in V:8, failing to see an incoming IOOD while using tornado) 06:48:20 makes a lot more sense now 06:48:48 in that case it'd be: air loses flight, sky replaces flight by sky beast form (makes a lot of sense with the name!), stalker gets sky beast form, tmuter book and dragon books gains L3(?) pure tmut flight spell with drawbacks 06:49:06 i only memorize flight in case i'm abyssed :p 06:49:17 eronarn: I think a couple other books have flight 06:49:17 i dont think tmute book needs flight 06:49:21 i mean, why? 06:49:25 ??book of tempests 06:49:25 I don't have a page labeled book_of_tempests in my learndb. 06:49:28 ??book of clouds 06:49:28 book of clouds[1/1]: Spells: Evaporate, Mephitic Cloud, Conjure Flame, Poisonous Cloud, Freezing Cloud, Tornado 06:49:29 elliptic: some books used to have lev 06:49:35 not sure of any others that actually had flight though 06:49:41 ??book the tempest 06:49:41 I don't have a page labeled book_the_tempest in my learndb. 06:49:45 eronarn: currently flight is in air, sky, dragon, dreams 06:49:45 ??book of the tempest 06:49:45 I don't have a page labeled book_of_the_tempest in my learndb. 06:49:50 whats it called? 06:49:52 ?? book of the tempests 06:49:53 book of the tempests[1/1]: Spells: Static Discharge, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Shatter, Tornado 06:50:01 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:50:04 ohhh, dreams 06:50:13 ??book of dreams 06:50:13 eronarn: dreams is a weird book that could have either one of your spells though 06:50:13 book of dreams[1/1]: Ensorcelled Hibernation, Alistair's Intoxication, Flight, Phase Shift, Shadow Creatures 06:50:20 i did dream i could fly one time, it was pretty much my best dream ever 06:50:28 probably the wings one 06:50:31 hmm... ice/hex, tmut/pois, charm/air, tloc, summ :P 06:50:36 indeed :P 06:50:54 shut up dreams is like the best book 06:51:01 yeah i love it too 06:51:07 all over the place, but has something for everyone 06:51:14 i like the theme 06:51:14 we could just leave flight in it, i'm not sure that is a problem 06:51:26 maybe nerf flight overall though 06:51:29 imo having flight and wings is too redundant 06:51:35 eronarn: in general replacing flight by 1-2 tmut spells sounds reasonable to me... though I don't know exactly how your sky form spell works or why it belongs in stalker 06:51:52 elliptic: sky beast form = flicker = sneaky 06:52:03 would fit perfectly 06:52:04 also, flight without wings = stealthy 06:52:13 it'd also give them a form tmuters don't get 06:52:17 alefury: stalker isn't about being sneaky though... 06:52:26 it used to kind of be? 06:52:31 only because someone decided to give them evap for no reason at all 06:52:31 im not sure what happened 06:52:40 you get a noisy spell (evap) and a spell that doesn't care whether stuff is aware of you (petrify) 06:52:51 they should lose evap at some point :P 06:52:59 and passwall, that doesn't need stealth 06:53:00 passwall also seems like it would have antisynergy with sky beast form 06:53:03 crawl should lose distill/evap at some point... 06:53:19 given that presumably you wouldn't be able to use the spells together, and opposing elemental schools and all 06:53:34 elliptic: the idea i was thinking of for stalkers is that they are tmut/ice/(earth or air) 06:54:08 eronarn: I'm definitely not attached to current stalker, anyway... a new book would be cool... just saying that sky form wouldn't make too much sense in their current book :) 06:54:58 current stalker is in a fair place, i think. my main criticism is that it's basically an EE lite 06:55:16 my idea for a book was something like: 1) turn (corpses or potions) into magical ice (thematically similar to evap, but weaker and silent) 2) some kind of 'tmut stab' based around stealing air 3) sky beast form 4) passwall 06:55:34 hardly another way to go forward, but earth or diverdify and eventually forget 06:56:12 should be sneaky, elementally flavored and slightly sinister 06:56:18 a 'stalker' isn't a nice person 06:57:11 other possibilities: camouflage skin, exude hypnotic spores 06:58:02 when i think of someone using transmutations to be stealthy i definitely don't think of explosions :) 06:58:08 Eronarn: i see stalker more like a ranger 06:58:22 not the modern type 06:58:40 alefury: like, someone at home with the wilderness, or? 06:58:51 someone who hunts animals, yes 06:59:01 elliptic: regarding flight and trap immunity, there's still shafts. I don't see shafts working with a tripwire :/ 06:59:03 probably some overlap there... camo skin spell would be good for either 06:59:12 and camo skin is *powerful* 06:59:14 galehar: an air current pulls you down 06:59:14 see octos 06:59:19 sneaky, resourceful, but not necessarily sinister 06:59:52 alefury: always the option to make two books out of it, also :) 06:59:56 galehar: replacing flight completely with a form seems like a decent idea though 07:00:10 Eronarn: currently stalker doesnt even have one good book, lets not get ahead of ourselves :) 07:00:24 ??stalker 07:00:25 stalker[1/1]: An assassin who got tired of misplacing his blowgun, so decided to replace it with transmutations. Starts with a dagger, a cloak and a {book of Stalking}. 07:00:29 ??book of stalking 07:00:31 elliptic: the abyss without flight would be a pain, though 07:00:31 book of stalking[1/1]: Spells: fulsome distillation, evaporate, passwall, dig, petrify. 07:00:47 absolutego_: why? you could use wings 07:00:48 (well, *is* a pain) 07:01:21 so you'd replace it with a spell of a different that does the same but has a drawback? 07:01:27 yes 07:01:49 i like the drawback, but i'm not sure about removing it from air/charms 07:02:00 maybe i'm just too used to it, it's by no means a terrible idea 07:02:29 shouldn't be a "form", which i guess is what threw me off 07:02:46 (forms meld a lot of equipment) 07:02:55 alefury: for a tmut ranger i think i'd do something like: sharp vision spell, camo skin spell, spore spell, some ammo-affecting spell, and start with a ranged weapon 07:02:58 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:07 absolutego_: blade hands and appendage are actually both forms 07:03:13 absolutego_: it shouldn't have "form" in the name if that's what you mean 07:03:30 that's what i meant 07:03:42 of course, there is one issue here with wings already existing in crawl and not blocking cloaks :P 07:04:17 Eronarn: shoot snakes 07:04:19 :D 07:04:31 (that would be way too silly) 07:04:38 Eronarn: The new spell isn't wings "Grow jet motor" 07:04:43 alefury: no way, that'd be great 07:04:58 Eronarn: i know that blade hands and appendage merge something, but they're far from the proper form spells, which remove a lot of equipment and manipulate ac/ev 07:05:06 absolutego_: internally, they're all forms 07:05:11 Eronarn: alefury Contricting arrows? 07:05:27 ghallberg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z_DUMmFKNU 07:06:36 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:40 Eronarn: I know :) 07:06:48 ugh, the internet in this place 07:06:58 I just thought constricting arrows would be cool (if overpowered) 07:07:11 i don't think it'd be overpowered, if they were a small constrictor 07:07:14 -!- absolutego has quit [Client Quit] 07:07:21 which would mean they'd flat out not work against most powerful enemies 07:07:34 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:52 hmm yeah 07:07:57 i want a simple little plant that constricts anything adjacent (can do 8, like an octo) that isn't a plant or a fedhasite 07:08:12 a plant that isn't a plant. 07:08:12 this would be good for that spell, or a summ spell that creates some smite targeted 07:08:14 zenplant 07:08:41 in fact, we could call it an 'octopus plant' 07:09:13 (which would also be an excuse to make it stealthy - you don't notice it until you see it constrict something) 07:09:18 @??plant 07:09:19 plant (03P) | Speed: 0 | HD: 10 | Health: 39-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | Flags: 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0. 07:09:52 normal plant defensive stats would be fine, so you couldn't tell whether it had been one by hitting it at range 07:10:08 so: plant, plus constrict up to 8, plus some AI, plus optionally some monster stealth-ish stuff 07:10:48 any objections? :P 07:11:16 sooo plant mimic 07:11:47 i assume they would spawn somewhere? 07:12:13 alefury: probably not initially, but i'm sure vault designers would find a use for them 07:12:23 they might be good for fedhas too 07:12:51 Now I want to play :( 07:12:58 wrt the crd email and ghost moths... 07:13:03 But I should be writing about stuff... 07:13:10 what about an 'immature ghost moth' which is weaker, flickers, and shows up weighted around spider:2 07:13:20 and normal ghost moths weighted around spider:5 07:13:31 'This specimen doesn't yet have full control over its innate invisibility.' 07:14:25 can we not use flickering more, it's pretty bad and encourages pillar dancing 07:14:46 st_: ghost moths are faster than you and drain your MP, so... 07:15:51 Can we please not use innate invis as much? 07:16:06 ghallberg: well, we're already using it for ghost moths - but they catch people off guard and kill them horribly 07:16:21