00:03:35 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1046-gf524a84 (32) 00:18:15 03jokeserver * r50b6ab6ade50 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Introduce shrieking orb mimics. 00:18:25 03|amethyst * r243254a90151 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Do not place permaglass where the Orb might have gone. 00:21:53 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1048-g243254a 00:28:07 03|amethyst * r6d0d8966a64b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Correct a typo in the description for spiders. 00:29:07 Debian builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1037-g5c0e37b 00:29:48 <|amethyst> hm 00:32:12 oh, did i miss something in using the symbols? 00:33:55 o is permaglass? 00:33:56 <|amethyst> o stands for permaglass 00:33:58 huh 00:34:36 <|amethyst> I thought about, but decided against, adding allow_dup to the zot5_orb vault 00:35:03 <|amethyst> since subvault placement won't reuse vaults even in wizmode, meaning you have to quit and restart every time you want to place an orb vault 00:36:06 yeah 00:36:12 well, thanks for the fix :) 00:36:19 (and the commit, of course :) ) 00:37:08 <|amethyst> yw 00:37:26 <|amethyst> thank you for the patch :) 00:37:40 any time 00:37:57 <|amethyst> really? because there are several implementables on mantis :) 00:38:11 some will just take longer than others >.> 00:55:21 hey 00:55:30 Is there a reason all my shops lately have been called blood bar? 00:56:07 I ran into one, it was obviously themed 00:56:18 since then my shops are all called "blood bar". 00:56:22 <|amethyst> hrm 01:01:42 <|amethyst> just bad luck I think... they should be no more common than the other custom shops: about 1/16 of all shops 01:02:07 <|amethyst> maybe the custom shops should be rarer, though 01:02:30 I'll let you know if the next shop is a blood bar 01:02:41 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:45 <|amethyst> hrm 01:02:56 <|amethyst> wait, that vault isn't allow_dup 01:04:52 <|amethyst> did all of these have vampires? 01:04:56 no 01:05:17 the first one was sold vampire themed items and had bottles of blood/fountains of blood around it 01:05:20 the others were normal shops 01:05:27 <|amethyst> wha 01:05:29 <|amethyst> hm 01:05:50 Is there a reason all my shops lately have been called blood bar? 01:05:54 this is the 2nd time i've seen someone report it 01:06:04 it looks like the first person didn't submit it to mantis like i told him to though!! 01:06:16 I can explain this bug (from memory) 01:06:47 Basically, you get one of the custom shops. None of them have allow_dup. That one custom shop works fine. Then, magically, other random shops get the custom shop name 01:07:04 these shops will not have the custom inventory or the actual vault. Just the name is affected. 01:07:46 I'm not sure if you need to get a custom shop first, before the names of normal get all screwed up. But that's how it seems to work 01:10:03 <|amethyst> hmm 01:10:12 I had some normal shops that were fine 01:10:13 <|amethyst> I can't seem to reproduce it in wizmode 01:10:17 it wasn't until this one that it happened 01:10:33 |amethyst: try having a mimic shop first 01:11:02 yeah, I can't reproduce this either. But ophanim is the 2nd person to have gotten this that I know of, since custom shop vaults were added 01:11:02 the other person was Pacra 01:11:39 I had a mimic shop as one of my 4 orc:4 shops. Maybe something about mimic shops posing as real shops causes the problem later. 01:16:11 -!- bouncyballboy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:48 <|amethyst> evilmike: I was able to reproduce it, but not reliably 01:24:41 <|amethyst> wait, it does seem reliable 01:26:18 03evilmike * rbe3ef0294f3d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (des/portals/wizlab.des descript/features.txt): Golubria wizlab. (HangedMan) 01:26:18 <|amethyst> if I place a custom shop, the first shop of every subsequent level will have that name 01:26:32 Ah 01:29:51 <|amethyst> even just a custom suffix is enough 01:50:12 03evilmike * r65eaec3602a3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Give guppyfry_spider_rune the no_pool_fixup tag. 02:02:06 03|amethyst * r0720149b3306 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Always initialize shop names. 02:04:18 -!- bouncyballboy_ has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:05:13 <|amethyst> not applying that one to 0.10 since there are no custom-named shops there afaict 02:14:14 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:59 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:55 -!- ophanim has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:35:41 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:22:24 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:11 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:54 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:36 -!- Snowclone has joined ##crawl-dev 03:41:11 -!- ais523 is now known as scarf 03:42:30 I'm trying to running webtiles built on 0.10.1 but seeing this error on connection, have I made some rookie mistake? http://paste.scsys.co.uk/192437 03:45:03 Napkin: ^^ 03:46:32 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:31 wrong browser? ask edlothiol, he should know, Snowclone 03:48:32 Napkin: You have 15 messages. Use !messages to read them. 03:49:45 tiles.crawl.develz.org works fine so I would've thought a local version would be the same. 03:50:53 Is edlothiol a regular here? 03:52:04 I think so 03:52:13 at least, I recognise the name 03:52:15 !seen edlothiol 03:52:15 I last saw edlothiol at Mon Apr 9 01:24:35 2012 UTC (7h 27m 40s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 252 seconds. 03:52:26 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:29 7 hours ago, regular enough :) 03:52:44 Thanks, will lurk in the mean time :) 03:52:56 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:00 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Changing host] 03:53:00 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:27 Looks like it might be a library version thing - https://github.com/mrjoes/tornadio2/commit/ae2856a5d8831daec1ecae79755ca4d4aa1bc315 03:58:42 edothiol is the webtiles dev, hes here quite a lot. i only asked Nap kin because edlothiol currently isnt here. 03:59:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:30 Cool, applying the same change from that github diff worked :) 04:04:23 Local webtiles in action - http://i.imgur.com/CmiHs.png 04:05:18 it's not really webtiles any more 04:05:20 just httptiles 04:05:33 the web isn't involved if it' slocal 04:05:35 *it's 04:05:55 hmm, what OS is that? 04:06:07 looks like Ubuntu, but I can't place the version 04:06:08 Snowclone: nice :) 04:07:07 Ubuntu Ocelot I think, whatever the ugly broken version is after maverick ;) 04:09:04 but with gnome-panel? 04:09:11 oh, after maverick must be natty 04:09:14 it goes in alphabetical order 04:09:36 Yeah, gnome-panel went wonky after maverick (or natty I forget which). 04:09:58 What's the best way of submitting patches? 04:10:13 gitorious + fork + pull request? 04:11:25 saying just "wonky" about components that have something to do with Gnome3 is an understatement 04:11:33 patch on mantis works well if its a single commit, merge request also works 04:12:08 even if Ubuntu is mostly Unity... they didn't distance themselves from Gnome3 far enough 04:12:47 Cool, thanks, alefury :) 04:13:56 i guess it doesnt matter how you submit it as long as edlothiol sees it 04:22:09 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:57 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:24 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1011-g44b8611 05:18:51 when casting cloud spells, what's the purpose of the "there's already a cloud there" limitation 05:34:57 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:02:15 headzone: so you don't have a trivial means by which to override clouds? 06:02:27 clouds in general can't be placed where there is already a cloud 06:16:55 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:05 golublab got in yayyyyyy 06:58:21 -!- hangedman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:45 G-Flex: how about allowing multiple active clouds on a square and/or combined effects (e.g. steam+ice = water) 07:22:43 it doesn't seem to make much sense that you can't centre a freezing cloud on a square where your other freezing cloud is still active 07:42:24 there has been some talk about allowing clouds to get overwritten (depending on power) 07:42:36 was a while ago, and i dont think anything came of it 07:45:05 the way they work now makes them *more* powerful 07:45:16 using clouds to block clouds lets you do certain tricks 07:46:10 would also be sad to lose that, even if some of the things you can do are cheesy. you're encouraged to use certain spells in combination 07:55:08 i wouldnt be sad to see that go 07:55:38 clouds sometimes going out of los is bad enough. that you can manipulate them to go further out of los on purpose is worse. 07:56:00 I wouldn't be sad to see poison clouding yourself as a defense to fire crabs go either 07:56:13 so just get rid of the clouds-outside-los part 07:56:22 however deciding how to let clouds overwrite other clouds is tricky 07:56:23 I just like how using a combination of spells allows you to control where clouds go more 07:56:38 obviously though, stuff like casting posion cloud on yourself as a defense against fire crabs is silly 07:56:39 mhh, i used poison cloud to great effect in cigotuvi wizlab 07:56:59 evilmike: making player-created clouds vanish once you can't see them would be good I think 07:57:04 there is precedent with IOOD 07:57:05 yeah 07:57:25 hmm, that sounds bad 07:57:54 maybe just make them expire at 10x the rate? 07:58:08 i think it would feel a little weird if they were gone instantly 07:58:09 I'd make it so existing clouds expire faster when out of LOS 07:58:15 and just forbid creating clouds out of LOS 07:58:17 once a cloud is there it's part of the terrain, it shouldn't just vanish when you can't see it 07:58:22 so no more dumping freezing cloud around a corner 07:58:23 evilmike: that sounds good 07:58:33 10x sounds a bit much though 07:58:57 clouds outside LOS would make sense for spells 07:59:02 evilmike: by the way, about your spider comments: I agree that this is a problem with other lair subbranches too (and making each level you go down in a subbranch count for two levels would help I think), but I think it feels especially bad in spider to me because the ending vault isn't particularly rough 07:59:05 freezing/pois cloud 07:59:15 not so much for some other cloud types though 07:59:26 elliptic: well, I added a new ending vault just a while ago, and buffed the old one slightly 07:59:30 evilmike: partly I find myself disappointed by emperor scorpions... it would be good to find something for them to do 07:59:36 ah, I haven't seen the new vault yet 07:59:38 elliptic: they could stand to be even harder. I'm waiting on wensley's moth of suppression for some o fthis 07:59:53 and yes, I want to make emperor scorps better in some way 08:00:18 I've thought they could get their poison upgraded to nasty poison, but that's a minor change 08:00:48 it's been suggested they could get reaching, but this would be a little akward to add 08:00:49 currently they are actually much weaker than wolf spiders 08:00:54 yeah 08:03:27 headzone: you need to maintain the cloud by keeping an eye on it or it will dissipate... see orb of destruction, as I said 08:04:36 corpse rot, evap (once it's fixed), etc. probably shouldn't dissipate like that 08:04:55 Maybe their defenses could be even stronger. What I want is a monster that hits hard and takes a while to kill, but isn't fast like spiders are. Which is basically what the portal vault monster was 08:05:14 only 'clouds from nothing' effects 08:05:15 I'm worried if their defenses are too high they'll just be like golems though. And giving them resists seems a bit weird to me 08:05:27 eronarn: yes, I was just thinking of the conjurations 08:06:00 evilmike: if they are still speed 10 they won't really be like golems 08:06:17 true 08:06:28 at the very least, they could get buffed AC/EV and rPois, I think 08:06:43 rPois is so that they aren't vulnerable to lesser scorpions 08:07:41 @??emperor scorpion 08:07:41 emperor scorpion (15s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 68-111 | AC/EV: 18/8 | Damage: 3004(medium poison), 11, 11 | Res: 06magic(56) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 1405. 08:08:01 oh that reminds me, I was also thinking of just making their corpses contam, not poison 08:08:30 I was wondering if that would make a big difference for ignite poison, though 08:10:28 learndb says the spell hurts things with poisonous corpses, but it clearly also damages stuff like adders and ants 08:11:48 it just checks mons_is_poisoner 08:12:27 which returns true on poisonous chunks and AF_POISON(_WHATEVER) attacks 08:12:47 so changing their chunks to just be contam shouldn't affect things 08:13:08 yeah, I see 08:13:31 @?emperor scorpion 08:13:31 emperor scorpion (15s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 11 | Health: 43-76 | AC/EV: 5/8 | Damage: 3004(medium poison), 11, 11 | Res: 06magic(44) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 901. 08:13:47 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:22 pah, I must have been subconsciously inspired by the submitted wip of that new gossamer rune vault, back to the drawing board 08:19:46 as usual I have no idea what you're talking about :P 08:25:53 HangedMan: if you are working on a new spider rune vault, I suggest trying for a more open layout. The current two are fairly cramped 08:26:20 I was going to work on one today but I'm going to focus my effort on entry vaults, since guppyfry wound up making one 08:29:35 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:36:22 03evilmike * r2dc38413637f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Buff emperor scorpions. 08:37:36 -!- HousePet has quit [Quit: Divide by cucumber error] 08:41:41 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:47 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:54 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1053-g2dc3841 (32) 09:38:34 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:40 this cloud talk is interesting 09:42:01 do you guys think they should dissipate faster or instantly out of LOS? 09:42:18 also, I assume it wouldn't apply to steam clouds 09:42:53 well, anything that lets you attack stuff out of LOS can be a problem. I think *some* stuff like this can be acceptable, but you can use clouds in an extreme way 09:43:07 especially if you dump freezing cloud around a corner 09:43:34 maybe it should apply only to the 2 cloud spells 09:43:48 I think those are the most extreme offenders, yeah 09:44:20 generating steam all over the place in shoals with fireball or inner flame is fine I guess 09:44:31 that's fine because nothing ever dies to that :P 09:44:37 and it's so annoying to the player that no one wants to do it anyway 09:44:45 and the LOS blocking effect can be put to good use 09:45:14 There's also chain lightning, which can hit stuff way out of sight, but it has to arc from monster to monster. So that is pretty interesting, I think 09:45:48 one thing that is questionable is reducing LOS and then shooting high range spells. Darkness and nightstalker + bolt of fire, for example 09:45:54 can combine it with ashenzari too 09:45:59 If out of LOS spreading is blocked like it was a wall, then I guess dissipation should be instantaneous 09:46:07 steam's much more palatable with mere rF+ immunity 09:46:25 galehar: blocking it like a wall might not be good, the flood fill would wind up covering you 09:47:26 but the targetter would tell you about it at least 09:48:00 True. I just wonder if it would make freezing cloud too difficult to use 09:49:40 alternatively, less spreading out of LOS, and quicker dissipation 09:50:11 maybe a bit harder to implement but a more natural effect 09:50:20 Quicker dissipation out of LOS could be enough, yeah 09:52:12 now, regarding overwriting clouds, a cloud dropped on another could have a random chance of overwriting or moving the old cloud or doing nothing 09:52:31 I really like how clouds work right now, regarding that 09:52:39 I think it's cool how you can use a conjure flame + freezing cloud combo 09:53:00 (in general, I just like it when spells work together like that) 09:53:36 yes, but there is the thing elliptic pointed out with casting poisonous cloud on yourself to protect you from hostile clouds 09:53:57 so the overwriting clouds could happen only between clouds hostile to each other 09:54:04 but that seems a bit strange 09:54:34 I can think of a way to justify that 09:54:48 say the fire crab is a breath attack, and its breath is blowing other clouds away 09:55:02 whereas with the spells, you are just creating the clouds on the spot 09:55:15 hmmm interesting 09:55:26 same justification can be given for blizzard demons 09:55:38 we could give elves some wind spell to defend themselves from your stupid clouds too :) 09:55:42 and pearl dragons, swamp dragons, swamp drakes... 09:55:55 I think there's only one monster that casts "straight" freezing cloud, aisde from ghosts 09:56:06 catlobe? 09:56:11 right, those too 09:58:07 less spreading out of LOS, faster dissipation out of LOS, hostile clouds blows the existing one before dropping on its target. Sounds like an implementable :) 09:59:56 so if we have an implementation for blowing clouds away, how about using it for a wind spell for elves and spriggans? 10:00:42 I like it for elves. I guess you could give it to spriggan air mages too 10:01:15 Dunno what elf you'd give it to. Deep elf mages probably won't work (too many different spellbooks, and they die too quickly) 10:01:53 deep elf air mage, to replaces the crappy death mages 10:02:09 death mages are too high level, although they could be made more common 10:02:17 imo the reason why death mages are crappy is because draining is crappy, though 10:02:27 fix that, and the monster becomes more worthwhile 10:02:36 deep elf death mage (16e) | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 54-80 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Damage: 12 | Flags: evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1572 | Sp: b.draining (3d19), vampiric draining, twisted resurrection. 10:02:36 %??deep elf death mage 10:03:29 i think they could be a lot better if they were weaker and spawned as band leaders, too 10:03:31 the anti-cloud spell could be given to priests maybe. As some sort of divine protection 10:03:49 they'd actually be more than "orc priests with animate dead" 10:03:51 twisted res works best with lots of chaff around 10:04:01 does it really work at all? 10:04:12 i dont know, but it was buffed so much that it should work? 10:04:46 I still feel like its weaker than animate dead 10:04:50 it is 10:05:09 its cool, though 10:05:15 yeah 10:05:47 could just give them haunt or something 10:05:57 maybe nerfed a bit 10:06:02 that would help with kiting, too 10:06:09 cant kite when sourrounded by ghosts :) 10:06:27 not sure if that would step on nergalle's toes too much, but i think she has enough other stuff 10:06:46 if/when I decide to give a Deep Dwarf level a shot, haunt is going to play a fairly large role 10:06:51 ah 10:06:56 so giving it to elves might make them less unique 10:07:08 (unborn deep dwarves cast haunt) 10:07:39 let them spawn a ring of miasma around you? :) 10:07:47 like what ophans do 10:08:14 have to go 10:08:18 speaking of ophans, holy monster AI needs to ignore holy clouds 10:08:49 ophans have this stupid thing where the clouds work well when daevas are around (smite smite smite) but angels will just hang around until the clouds drop 10:20:23 03MarvinPA * r337b8b6c15f6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (output.cc player.cc): Remove multiple levels of warding, give warding 1 the same effect as old warding 2 10:20:50 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:17 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:23:28 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 10:26:30 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:13 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:31:02 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 10:31:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:08 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:38:10 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:54 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:11:56 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:17 03edlothiol * r215dce49f5d6 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ws_handler.py: Fix Webtiles compatibility with tornado 2.2. 11:15:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:38 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:18:04 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:31 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:59:48 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:49 -!- scarf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:56 i'm getting the same bug with custom shops that someone mentioned in here earlier, got a "fishing supplies" shop and now my next scroll shop is someone's fishing supplies 12:12:01 use scrolls as bait 12:12:19 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: even in latest trunk? 12:12:28 oh, in whatever's on cdo 12:12:40 didn't notice there was a commit to fix it 12:13:13 ah yeah, the fix isn't on cdo 12:13:15 nevermind then! 12:37:50 crash on start or restart (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5546) by felix747 12:42:54 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:09 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:51:17 -!- Flun has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:26 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:37 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:40 oh hm, you can constrict things when they submerge 13:19:05 i guess stuff shouldn't be able to submerge while constricted? or it should count as an escape attempt or whatever 13:25:50 MarvinPA: with an exception for air elementals (if you can even constrict those) 13:53:46 -!- Flun has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:02:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:05 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:47 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:06:07 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:30 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:15:03 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:29:20 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:41 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:33:58 -!- headz0ne has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:46 -!- headzone has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:48:46 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:13 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:47 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:53:05 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:58:10 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:02 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:17 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:28 03evilmike * r4a2724608841 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/twisted.des: Give nicolae_entry_your_instructions a low weight. 16:00:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:48 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 16:02:52 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:19 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:03:19 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 16:11:15 Game crashes consistently during second half of the tutorial, lesson 2. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5547) by Nis 16:14:34 !seen nfogravity 16:14:35 I last saw nfogravity at Sun Apr 8 04:46:51 2012 UTC (1d 16h 27m 43s ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 16:15:56 hmm, no idea about that crash but it reminds me that the tutorial is probably due another look over, i imagine a bunch of stuff has changed 16:16:31 03galehar * rbdfcae8ccbc5 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc melee_attack.cc wiz-fsim.cc wiz-fsim.h): New fight simulator (nfogravity). 16:16:31 03galehar * raed87e40fa8f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc mon-util.cc mon-util.h wiz-fsim.cc): fsim: improve monster type selection. 16:16:32 yeah. There's still nothing about the new skill system for example. 16:16:33 Not to mention I'm sitting on maps revised by (yet another) usability project 16:16:33 03galehar * rba1f42009afa 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: fsim: don't announce generated monsters. 16:16:35 03galehar * r208f71645d77 10/crawl-ref/source/ (main.cc wiz-fsim.cc wiz-fsim.h): fsim: fix a lot of code duplication. 16:16:35 03galehar * r2d75bac02872 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Change the range of fsim double scale from 0-26 to 1-27. 16:16:35 03galehar * r54017833a488 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Also print the result of the simulation in the message area. 16:16:35 03galehar * r40af826a3fff 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h wiz-fsim.cc): Fix an ugly hack. 16:16:36 03galehar * r82202b4a0ff9 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Bring back fsim_kit functionality. 16:16:36 03galehar * r910bfd5b62cc 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: fsim: don't say we're wielding unarmed or javelins. 16:16:37 03galehar * rdef6bea91aaa 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc options.h): Purge the fsim stats and xl options. 16:16:37 03galehar * re398ca32891d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc options.h wiz-fsim.cc): Add a new fsim_mode option and enable defense simulation. 16:16:41 ! 16:16:50 aha, cool fsim stuff 16:16:53 I'll try to commit them in a branch this week.. I haven't looked at them yet myself. 16:18:28 I think I'll finally have to put crawl on a work computer to get anything done. :P 16:18:46 :) 16:19:15 Though I guess USB drive would work, I recall you did that, galehar? :) 16:19:27 yeah I did 16:19:44 nasty http proxy wouldn't let me use git through it 16:20:24 I finally work around it when we moved to gitorious. I could pull with http there. 16:20:57 still no push, but I brought back patches on USB. Still much more convenient than having the whole clone on a usb disk 16:21:39 I can use an ssh tunnel through the proxy at my new job and do whatever I want. Much less free time however... 16:22:09 Why do different eyes have different targeting? 16:22:13 I could keep all my local branches on an USB stick, since I never know when I have time and on what computer. :) 16:22:24 i.e. golden eyes have old smite, shining eyes have only line-of-fire target 16:22:28 Could sleep now, though. Cheers! 16:23:28 Blade-: don't all of them have smite targetting except shining eyes? 16:23:42 well, and eyes of devastation, but those are a special case 16:23:56 they cast spells, not gaze attacks 16:24:03 so yes, golden, giant, and draining have old smite 16:24:40 it's just very confusing and non-obvious to have one targeting for smite-targeted spells, one for most eyes, and then have shining eyes behave completely differently 16:24:45 old? is there a new smite? 16:24:52 doesn't pass glass now 16:25:42 neither do smite targeted spells 16:25:46 eyes do 16:25:53 which is the inconsistent part 16:25:58 ah ok 16:26:39 eyes gonna eye 16:27:47 it seems like either eyes shouldn't be cased differently than every other thing in the game, or shining eyes should act the same as the others. 16:27:49 I know smite was prevented to go through glass because it was too abusable, no idea if eyes were not for a reason or if it's an oversight (pun) 16:28:12 well, I asked a while ago and was dismissed with "it's a gaze attack and they can always see you" 16:28:52 it certainly make sense for gaze to go through glass :) 16:29:09 yeah, but it's nonintuitive when compared with new smite 16:29:12 not sure if the shining eye exception has any reason 16:30:29 smite targeted mutation is just pretty mean, i guess 16:30:38 I guess some vaults rely on eyes in glass. Like the one in Pan 16:30:44 not meaner than smite-targeted confusion or paralysis 16:30:56 couldn't that glass be replaced with grates as with every other vault that relied on glass? 16:30:59 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:42 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:58 I guess it would be much less threatening given how everyone has dig in pan 16:32:27 everyone? 16:32:35 everyone should, certainly 16:32:39 I don't think it's too far fetched that gaze are the only attacks that go through glass and are different than smite 16:33:05 Zannick: if you want a demonic rune, you better have dig 16:33:11 perhaps, but it creates the potential for really nasty nonintuitive situations 16:33:22 or lrd :I 16:33:29 at one point I lost one of my bone dragons under yred because a golden eye confused me through glass while I was picking loot up, and I walked into it 16:33:37 lemuel_draining_boxes was already changed to use grates 16:33:38 galehar: oh, the ability to dig. yeah, i've never had the dig spell in pan, but i've had wands 16:34:45 so vaults probably aren't an issue, i'd say it's reasonable to make gazes work the same way as other smite attacks 16:35:53 alright 16:35:58 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:58 -!- neunon has quit [Changing host] 16:35:58 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:20 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:27 03MarvinPA * ra8101a12adee 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godwrath.cc spl-goditem.cc): Add better messages for vulnerability expiring your magical durations 16:52:14 nerf cloud spells (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5548) by galehar 17:02:31 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:20:57 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:51 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:31:12 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:12 galehar: you have any preference on the wind spell? i have a few ideas for relevant ones 17:43:19 could post them in the implementable 17:43:54 no, I haven't thought about any specific 17:44:07 so yeah, post your ideas on the mantis, sure 17:47:33 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:52 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:56 <|amethyst> Eronarn: any comments on 4598 and 5543? Both are related to jewellery melding, which hasn't really worked since the octopode merge 17:59:38 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:48 I agree with kilobyte's comment on #4598. Oc should meld rings 3-8 in animal form and keep them with BH, beastly, lich and statue 18:00:03 and they should meld 1-2 in bat and pig form 18:00:10 did I miss anything? 18:00:28 why do they meld in spider form? 18:00:34 they still have 8 legs 18:00:58 why other species wouldn't be able to use 8 rings in spider form then? 18:01:04 <|amethyst> magic 18:01:12 <|amethyst> same reason rings work on blade hands :) 18:01:34 its hard for a spider to put rings on its own legs; but an octopode already has them there ... 18:01:39 well, we could special case spider form to allow 8 rings... 18:01:48 mumra's justification sounds good to me 18:02:02 <|amethyst> except spiders can put on and take off rings, no? 18:02:14 ban swapping rings in spider form :) 18:02:16 ... 18:02:18 that could change ;) 18:02:23 |amethyst: there is a suggestion somewhere on the wiki to meld rings with BH 18:02:30 could be interesting 18:02:38 <|amethyst> I think it makes sense thematically 18:02:57 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:00 and BH could probably take the nerf 18:03:19 honestly, though, I can't see people worrying too much about "octopodes get 8 rings in spider form and I don't" 18:03:48 blade hands is going to fall behind in competitiveness with ice form at that point 18:05:45 <|amethyst> I'm sure we could nerf that too 18:06:51 Blade-: on the other hand, if we say "why not spider, it has 8 legs", then we could say "humans have 10 fingers"... 18:06:59 It doesn't seem like forms are overpowered enough to merit mass nerfing 18:07:23 * galehar hands |amethyst a +10, +10 executioner's axe of nerfing 18:07:57 yeah. Legs are distinct from fingers, though, in that each is a separate appendage 18:08:04 one ring per hand is a well-established convention 18:08:28 I would see it more as just "octopode tentacles change into spider legs, rings don't fall off" 18:08:33 rather than anything more complex 18:08:52 fr: screw conventions of "rings" because they make no sense, replace rings with armbands or bracers or something 18:09:02 melding rings in BH isn't mass nerfing 18:09:04 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5548 <-- i posted two possible spells, and a formal definition for how a cloud can 'bump' another one 18:09:17 i'd really appreciate people looking over the latter, in particular 18:09:27 melding rings of blade hands and then nerfing ice form begins to get close though 18:09:40 I don't mind that much; it just seems unnecessary. 18:09:50 it might need an 'already bumped' flag to prevent recursion 18:09:52 well I don't think ice form needs nerfing 18:09:59 though i'm not sure whether that would actually come up ever 18:10:46 ugh 18:10:51 nvm 18:10:58 okay, wrt the octo stuff... octos definitely should keep 8 rings in BH, beastly, lich, statue 18:11:05 -!- vivec_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:23 spider form: it's fine to block this; spiders have 8 *legs*, octos have 8 *arms* 18:11:29 is there a way to guarantee an item at a certain depth of a dungeon without going into the code crawl devs? 18:11:56 <|amethyst> vivec_: make a 1x1 vault with that item, and give it DEPTH: D:5 18:12:00 ice form is tricky because of the issue with turning into ice form when you can't wear equipment it can use 18:12:18 as a seperate .des file or what amethyst? 18:12:34 <|amethyst> that would be simplest, yes 18:12:40 ??ice form 18:12:41 ice form[1/1]: +20% HP, rF-, rC+++, rPois. Melds all armour except cloaks, but gives 5-12 AC (and has synergy with {ozocubu's armour}). 12+UC base damage with freezing brand. Players in ice form can float through water, but get no aquatic bonuses and can't reach submerged items. Found in Book of Changes, L4 ice/tmut. 18:12:42 just shove it into any .des file if it's a local build 18:12:53 ^ octos and felids can go ice form, but can't wear cloaks normally 18:13:12 Eronarn: what's the problem? Lets make ice form and spider meld rings 3-8. 18:13:33 galehar: i am fine with ice form melding rings, but it should probably also allow octos to wear cloaks until the spell ends... 18:13:49 Eronarn: that's easy: prevent ice form from wearing cloaks. 18:13:50 ... 18:13:59 that would be just fine with me :) 18:14:04 good thing I got my tm win already 18:14:19 ice form is really supposed to be some animal-ish creature 18:14:32 yeah, animal form with a cloak is meh 18:14:33 i think if we're going to have animal forms meld most stuff, so should ice form 18:14:46 hats are a bit tricky, since octos can wear those, and people have wanted felids to be able to 18:14:48 beast, clearly different from animal 18:15:00 btw, if felids can't use wands, ice form and spider shouldn't either :) 18:15:13 very good thing I got my tm win already 18:15:24 for sure, i hate the spider form for EV + zap wand approach to killing early uniques 18:15:29 absolutely not how spider form should be used :/ 18:15:46 people do that, what 18:15:59 against ones with ranged 18:16:21 where are the minivaults saved in the des folder? or are they all in their specific .des files already? 18:16:31 never have heard of or seen that, and usually corners are easier to use anyway 18:16:42 vivec: dat/des/variable/ 18:17:01 galehar: fwiw i would prefer to see tm form stuff nerfed more on the heavy side, and then give them new stuff... the school is so empty right now 18:17:10 at some point do you expect to be good at a modified, cheaty crawl 18:17:26 it's bad to have a school that relies heavily on using just a few spells 18:17:56 galehar: re wands, that's only based on the tiles graphic, nobody really knows what ice form looks like surely ...? 18:17:56 more lack of non-form-spells then forms being too good or bad 18:18:22 Eronarn: for the gust spell, I don't see the advantage of all the bump cloud complexity. Just start by moving the ones far away, randomise direction a bit and you're set. 18:18:26 if I do DEPTH: Lair, how do I specify to lair 8? 18:18:34 DEPTH: Lair:8 ? or what 18:18:43 will work 18:19:07 lair:8 orb of zot is not something even the most complaining of bastards would actually do 18:19:16 mumra: I just think animal forms should have consistent restrictions with felids. No armour, no weapon, no throwing and no wands. 18:19:53 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:magic:forms_consistency 18:20:00 screw you, dragon form! 18:20:14 galehar: eventually you'll get stuff like a cloud moving into a cloud that had to stop because of a wall... i feel like the right approach there is the bump one, rather than just removing a cloud altogether 18:20:26 haha, I'm not putting the orb there, just some decent loot :P 18:20:30 since bumping will allow the clouds to flow down corridors 18:20:53 nonrandomcrawl is missing half the point of crawl, I still assert 18:21:06 but whatever, not like you're playing online 18:21:27 Eronarn: they'll flow just as fine is you start by moving the ones far away. Or do you mean turn corners? 18:22:05 is there a way for it to be a random roll between different types of items? 18:22:24 i.e it could be a demon blade, or it could be a sling, or it could be whatever else 18:22:42 KITEM: d = sling / demon blade 18:22:55 also we have bloody documentation for this, you know 18:23:10 i just like to annoy you, personally 18:23:11 vivec_: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps 18:23:17 galehar: it definitely needs to start by moving the ones far away, yeah, but i mean flow faster. if clouds could bump, it would create a 'pressure' equivalent, and the spell would work differently in the case of a corridor vs. an open space 18:23:19 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:item_info 18:23:57 bumping would also handle different cloud types, like poison clouds being blown into smoke 18:24:30 how can it be guaranteed this vault will show up? 18:25:00 Eronarn: I think it would bring a lot of complexity while being barely noticeable. Simple movement with a little randomisation would be just as good. 18:25:38 for the gust spell, perhaps, but the other one (or tornado) it would be quite noticeable 18:26:22 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:headers#place 18:27:59 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:39 http://pastebin.com/vueCvayZ 18:28:44 an example of the first spell 18:29:10 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:28 oh yeah, another spell option: transmute clouds 18:32:12 !apt sp 18:32:14 Sp: Air: -1, Armour: -3, Axes: -2, Bows: 2, Charms: 4!, Conj: -3*, Xbows: 0, Dodge: 4!, Earth: -1, Evo: 3!, Exp: 130, Fighting: -2*, Fire: -2, Hexes: 2, Ice: -2, Inv: -1, Long: -2, Maces: -3, Nec: -1, Poison: 0, Polearms: -3, Shields: -3, Short: 1, Slings: 2, Splcast: 3, Stab: 4!, Staves: -3, Stealth: 4, Summ: -2, Throw: 1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Traps: 3!, Unarmed: -2* 18:32:18 what's nice about wind is that the monster can blow your own cloud back in your face 18:32:51 indeed, but it'd be good to have other options so we don't need as many air mages 18:32:59 oh no, poisonous cloud in the player's face 18:33:07 spriggan transmuter: shrink ray, transmute clouds, dragon form 18:33:11 a new non-mage air monster would be quite nice 18:33:16 shrink ray, hahaha 18:33:45 HangedMan: i am totally 100% serious about shrink ray. hex/tmut 18:34:26 reduces size of an opponent and reduces their melee damage based on how many sizes they changed 18:34:30 temporary maxhp hit, increased ev, can't wield some weapons? 18:34:53 nah, their gear stays the same relative size 18:35:07 poor ogres tukima'ing gscs 18:35:16 * galehar sleep 18:35:37 it'd be weird if floor loot isn't available then or such, sounds complicated 18:35:56 HangedMan: it doesn't have to make sense, it can just be a combat penalty flavored as being very tiny 18:36:31 then give them some other spell that lets them get benefits based on size difference 18:40:03 random idea: monster that gives you temporary minuses on armour / weapons 18:41:23 explaining that with artifacts can be hard 18:41:37 it's a debuff, rather than a permanent change 18:41:54 this gives me two ideas though: 1) phasing (like phase shift) or blinking away your equipment 2) 'Your shield turns into a screaming mass of flesh. Your shield screams, "KILL MEEEEEE"' 18:42:38 (why don't we have a nec/tmut spell that does that as a noisy buff?) 18:43:58 i was thinking "your armour is turning to rubber" but yeah, basic idea: bypassing AC in a more interesting way than unresistable damage - reducing your capacity to absorb attacks overall 18:44:16 would be good as a support ability in any monster group late game 18:48:54 -!- Blade- has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:49:04 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:36 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:04 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:39 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:23 -!- Blade is now known as Blade- 18:54:38 why can fireball penetrate freezing cloud but bolt of fire can't? 18:55:18 explosion 18:55:28 explosions are different from projectiles 18:56:24 okay 19:01:15 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:04:48 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:21:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:56 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:35:08 -!- spaceships has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:25 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:53:23 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:19 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:27 icemail being weaker then ozo's and c shield for weak fire/heat sources seems quite silly and tedious in terms of its regeneration - would it be possible / balanced / better to make such examples take less of an ac hit or shorter duration to recover? 20:15:35 -!- vivec_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:41:05 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:54 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:13 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 21:03:28 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 21:07:18 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: medgno] 21:13:14 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:17:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:27 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:23 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:53:22 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:53 -!- shacklettbp has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:00 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:34 when building crawl 0.10.1 with libpng 1.5.9 on linux I'm getting several libpng warnings when the build process does GEN floor and GEN feat 22:12:02 the warning is libpng warning: Interlace handling should be turned on when using png_read_image 22:12:29 should I be concerned about this, or should I ignore it? 22:16:28 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16:42 03|amethyst * r7c094004e285 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: Prevent blade hands from using first two ring slots. 22:16:52 03|amethyst * r53e7cfe7a020 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Prevent melded rings from functioning. 22:16:52 03|amethyst * ra149898f39ea 10/crawl-ref/source/ (item_use.cc player.cc): Prevent putting on/removing rings in melded slots. 22:16:53 03|amethyst * r88b9e9c21148 10/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc: Make most forms meld rings beyond the second. 22:21:30 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:23:20 <|amethyst> Those passed my testing, but I may have missed some corner cases 22:23:34 <|amethyst> ice and dragon get two rings; bat and pig get zero; blade gets 6 rings for Octopodes, 0 for most races; and spider, statue, appendage, lich get 8 for Octopodes, 2 for most races 22:23:51 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 22:23:52 <|amethyst> the slots melded by blade hands are the slots not melded by dragon/ice 22:25:55 <|amethyst> the biggest concern I have is that you have to use the % screen to figure out which rings will be melded 22:26:34 <|amethyst> and that the code became more complicated 22:26:45 <|amethyst> s/the code became/I made the code/ 22:27:10 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:05 <|amethyst> the slots melded by blade hands are the slots not melded by dragon/ice 22:28:11 I see some tedious equipment-switching in the future 22:30:14 <|amethyst> yeah... it's unfortunate that the ring slots are non-isomorphic, but allowing eight rings in those forms was silly, and allowing zero rings would be too much of a nerf 22:31:50 <|amethyst> it could be made somewhat less tedious by providing a way to specify which slot to put a ring in, even if the slots aren't full 22:33:15 if not all slots are full, will blade hands merge the empty ones? 22:35:48 <|amethyst> Hm 22:36:04 having different forms merge different slots sound painful 22:36:31 if you use, say, ice form and blade hands as an octopode, prioritizing rings would be kind of tedious 22:36:51 <|amethyst> Hm... maybe have blade hands merge the last two slots then? 22:37:33 <|amethyst> either way, it's still an interface problem 22:38:13 <|amethyst> since even if it's always the last slots that are merged, actually getting the less useful jewellery in those slots is a pain 22:38:47 I can't see any way to make it not an interface problem. 22:50:13 Partial ring melding invites tediosity. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5549) by neil 23:03:11 why do dd not regen mana with guardian spirit? Is it considered overpowered? 23:03:38 yes 23:12:50 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:42 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:29 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:38:48 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:42:50 -!- rawrmage_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:10 -!- Blade- has quit [] 23:43:12 -!- rawrmage has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 23:46:15 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 23:48:08 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:20 -!- rawrmage_ is now known as rawrmage 23:57:34 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 23:57:34 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev