00:03:55 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-995-g22a6ff2 (32) 00:08:55 Can't generate items with spirit shield ego in vaults/wizmode (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5538) by nicolae 00:13:21 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:46 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-995-g22a6ff2 00:41:10 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 00:50:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:02 -!- HousePet has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:55 -!- tholmes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:16 -!- tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:43 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:49 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:51 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:39:59 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 03:22:38 alefury: people's interests come and go... right now, I think a viable plan to whip due back to contributing would involve sdl_sound :p 03:23:15 my sis dropped off her kittehs at my place... they don't go well with my guy. I can record a good sound set for the Snake Pit :p 03:33:24 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:56 kilobyte: hahaha 03:54:08 kilobyte: it's just so much effort right now, and the motivation to do it is gone 03:55:06 yeah, and indeed we already have quite a few wizlabs 03:56:47 I'd say an average winning player will see a given wizlab once in his life 03:57:21 Abyssal monsters are probably more important 04:02:06 what's a wizlab? XD 04:04:47 I think that about sums it up ;) 04:05:58 yeah, the average person who has entered at least one wizlab online has entered 4.2 wizlabs 04:08:16 compare with sewers (11.5), baileys (7.9), ice caves (6.6)... 04:12:52 kilobyte: about SH/EV ordering: think about it this way: you realize that you aren't going to get the shield in position in time, so you try to dodge 04:14:05 I think either order can be justified really 04:17:42 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 04:18:26 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:20:44 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:57 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 04:23:56 also, MUT_WILD_MAGIC should be marked as predominantly bad. I got two levels of it (Xom), Spc 10 and level _1_ spells are at 68% failure. 04:24:10 what does it do? 04:24:54 ais523: decreases cast chance, slightly increases power 04:25:03 ah, OK 04:25:28 like berserkitis or teleportitis, it can be useful sometimes, but at least in the early game it's mostly -CAST 04:25:51 yes, indeed 04:26:19 heh, in my NetHack TAS work-in-progress I got intrinsic /polymorphitis/, that's normally considered top of the list of intrinsics you don't want 04:26:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:11 how far along is that TAS? 04:28:23 I remember watching part of it a few months ago, was very cool 04:29:04 !wtf TAS 04:29:05 WTF was that? Unthing! 04:29:16 Tool-assisted speed run 04:29:48 on sh/ev order, "real-world" justification leads nowhere, but in terms of game mechanics, checking ev first seems to make sense since dodging something completely is the best option if you can do it; blocking could have repercussions 04:30:15 Crawl has one TAS that I know of: 04:30:19 !lg cashybrid win 04:30:20 1. cashybrid the Eviscerator (L22 FeBe), worshipper of Trog, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2011-04-05, with 1295305 points after 91333 turns and 1:05:11. 04:30:39 evilmike: I'd rather count those RNG hacks 04:30:50 well, there are a ton of different categories 04:31:52 cashybrid's tool-assisted, arguably, but it's not normally what's meant by a TAS 04:32:02 evilmike: we're currently planning the ascension run, it's really hard 04:32:03 a good part of the game boils down to: "o, is this fight dangerous? In no, tab tab tab" 04:32:05 so many unlikely things to arrange 04:35:19 headzone: checking EV first makes shields of reflection sad 04:35:48 how is it "tool-assisted"? I'm curious 04:36:14 elliptic: checking SH first *if* you have reflection actually would make sense 04:36:14 G-Flex: basically, really massive savescumming 04:36:17 (if and only if) 04:36:17 I mean /really/ massive 04:36:30 G-Flex: yeah, that's a possibility 04:36:33 also, we do things like load up the save files in wizard mode to look at their internals 04:36:33 elliptic: because your character would be trying to block more with reflection 04:36:38 like, it's justifiable as more than a cheap hack 04:36:38 and even hack the game to display its internals 04:36:48 elliptic: ie, realism vs a potentially interesting brand. I didn't buy your previous explanation, this one sounds far better. 04:36:50 if you had reflection, you'd prefer blocking to dodging 04:36:59 G-Flex: or that 04:37:02 only if the attack if reflectable 04:37:11 HousePet: yes 04:37:13 I read that as "realism is a potentially interesting brand" 04:37:16 kilobyte: I mean, I don't really mind how we handle it as long as it is consistent with players vs monsters 04:37:19 triple sword of realism 04:37:24 G-Flex: <3 04:37:30 cut an enemy with it, they bleed to death over the course of 5,000 turns 04:37:30 coincidently, i just found a buckler of reflection 04:37:33 or just die on the spot 04:37:39 I just didn't feel very motivated to change everything just for a tiny bit of realism 04:38:15 speaking of triple swords, is anyone who wants to keep them still around? You see, having them have a small accident and become, say, claymores, is so tempting. 04:38:33 another option is to check SH first for ranged attacks and EV first for melee, I suppose? 04:38:33 claymore sounds more like a double-sword 04:38:48 is there anything wrong with triple sword 04:38:53 elliptic: is it possible for there to be a repercussion to blocking a ranged attack? 04:38:56 scots do slightly more damage with a claymore? 04:39:06 HousePet: but hill dwarves were removed ages ago!! 04:39:06 monqy: nothing if you are on enough drugs 04:39:25 HousePet: <3 04:39:39 G-Flex: there already is lowered chance of blocking further attacks that round 04:40:31 "double sword" in RL has two meanings: 1. a hand-and-a-half sword (ie, a bastard one), and 2. a sword with edges on both sides (ie, an European-style one) 04:41:10 elliptic: true 04:41:22 elliptic: so checking EV first would potentially make SH better in general 04:41:50 yes, though not very significantly I think 04:41:56 yeah probably not 04:42:04 what if you're a migi of chei!!!! 04:42:06 gl* 04:42:07 "triple sword" is a rare term for a type of claymore, with crossguard at an angle, roughly Y-shaped, with the guard parts looking like daggers (or small swords) which is the source of the name 04:42:56 it's only Crawl where their descriptions and tiles come straight from a bad Star Wars prequel 04:43:15 were there good star wars prequels? 04:45:12 no 04:45:21 fr lightsabers :* 04:46:45 BlastHardcheese: see: Slash'EM 04:47:02 that was the joke 04:54:08 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 04:54:08 |amethyst: I just removed the need for contribs in monster, the fix is in CDO's monster repository 04:58:25 ais523: reiterating the "no" response 04:58:42 I asked the question the way I did for a reason :) 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-995-g22a6ff2 05:05:41 kilobyte: absdepth0 is currently 24 in Pan and Abyss. I think you've told me that you're changing it to 52 in portal_branches. Is that right? Isn't it a bit much? 05:06:06 Z:5 is 31 05:13:38 ais523: sorry, I completely missed what it was a response to 05:14:15 galehar: 24?? How come? Lemme check. 05:15:20 03galehar * r994e008811ae 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Don't announce jellies spawned from hurting TRJ. 05:17:53 I haven't looked at the code, but that's what my debugger and &^E are telling me 05:21:34 galehar: beh, looks like it's sometimes DEPTH_ABYSS, sometimes whatever absdepth0 you had when getting banished 05:21:54 it's hacked to be ignored during monster generation 05:23:35 most item generation obeys item_level, except for a couple places that use you.absdepth0 instead 05:24:48 apparently they are both for vaults with items using the "damaged" flag, for determining brands 05:25:10 ok. I'm thinking about how to scale mimics with depth, so I need to know what range I have to handle. I'm currently thinking using stepdown anyway, so even DEPTH_ABYSS should be manageable. 05:30:12 03kilobyte * r7bf89b5a7d64 10/crawl-ref/source/mapdef.cc: Fix ego:spirit_shield not working in vault definitions. 05:30:12 03kilobyte * r730e42a672be 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation-data.h: Mark the Wild Magic mutation as "mostly bad". 05:30:12 03kilobyte * r332f8bf609e8 10/crawl-ref/source/dbg-util.cc: Show absdepth0 on &^E. 05:36:38 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:05 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:48 -!- ais523 is now known as about 05:54:05 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:50 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:02:30 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 06:10:07 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:37 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:47 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:20:28 -!- lord-naughty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:28:10 the triple sword discussion means that we still need a single sword unrand 06:33:04 Eronarn: reminds me of the Discworld setting, where Captain Carrot owns the only nonmagical sword in the whole setting 06:33:29 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:16:50 Eronarn: <3 <3 <3 07:16:56 single sword FTW 07:19:24 ??single sword 07:19:26 I don't have a page labeled single_sword in my learndb. 07:19:28 is there any point for a runrest stop for "Your skin is crawling a little less now."? 07:19:33 wait someone deleted it? :( 07:19:43 especially that things like Lichform expiring don't have one by default 07:20:07 kilobyte: seems unnecessary, yes 07:20:46 13:34 < jeanjacques> !learn del single sword[1] 07:20:46 13:34 < Henzell> Deleted single sword[1/1]: One-handed long blade, Dam 11, Acc +2, Delay 11. Better than a demon whip! 07:25:55 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:52 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:28:52 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:29:35 ??long sword 07:29:36 long sword[1/1]: One-handed long blade (Dam: 10, Acc: +1, Delay: 14) 07:29:46 +1/+1 longsword of speed 07:32:24 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:39:32 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:53 Your death cob hits Rupert. Your death cob misses you. You furiously retaliate! 07:40:04 _You headbutt your death cob! 07:40:05 confusion? 07:40:12 Can't control their fury, these minotaurs.. 07:40:12 on the death cob's side 07:40:16 yeah 07:40:20 amusing 07:40:29 probably ##crawl stuff on reflection though :) 07:40:41 it is a questionable thing, though 07:43:41 problematic with gods that hate hurting allies 07:43:43 does retaliating make it turn hostile? 07:44:05 IIRC no, but it can be the death blow 07:44:37 -!- vivec has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:43 !apt mi 07:44:47 Mi: Air: -3, Armour: 2!, Axes: 2!, Bows: 1, Charms: -4*, Conj: -3*, Xbows: 1, Dodge: 1, Earth: -2, Evo: -1, Exp: 130, Fighting: 2, Fire: -3*, Hexes: -4*, Ice: -3*, Inv: -1, Long: 2!, Maces: 2, Nec: -3*, Poison: -3*, Polearms: 2, Shields: 2!, Short: 1, Slings: 1, Splcast: -3, Stab: -1, Staves: 2!, Stealth: -2, Summ: -3*, Throw: 0, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -2, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 07:45:04 I'd say it shouldn't be totally uncontrolled 07:45:26 it attacked you first 07:45:41 you have to keep it in line somehow 07:46:10 unlike spinal reflexes like pulling a hand when you touched something hot, instinctive headbutts definitely need at least some brain action (coordination, etc) 07:46:43 yeah 07:49:38 can we make death cobs a zot only thing, apart from maybe a crypt vault or two 07:50:10 actually I don't think any of the crypt vaults use them, aside from the door_vault 07:50:34 oh speaking of door vaults 07:50:43 HangedMan: i think they'd be appropriate for a sealed offering vault 07:50:48 food and a death cob 07:50:52 heh 07:50:55 is there a reason some of them have one square of rock in one of the corners, instead of being entirely secret doors? 07:50:58 food vault revenge 07:51:14 they absolutely shouldn't be yred monsters though 07:51:15 it looks deliberate from the vault, but i have no idea why it would be 07:51:28 I think it has to do with how secret doors need a base-type wall near them to hide as 07:51:41 and the x can be changed by the level so that crypt's door vault will be all stone 07:51:58 will appear to be all stone 07:52:18 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:01 it'd be nice if vaults didn't have to screw around just to set what a secret door is disguised as 07:53:16 oh hm yeah 07:53:30 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:11 actually, it seems to not work anyway 07:54:43 the adapting to floor? 07:54:52 branch 07:55:09 yeah 07:55:54 minivault_9 place:elf got correctly disguised without a square of rock in it, at least 07:56:03 but didn't get correctly disguised in dis 07:59:10 or crypt 07:59:59 dungeon.cc looks like a fun place to be horribly lost in 08:01:57 i guess because elf reflavours all the rock, maybe 08:03:19 and _fixup_wall doesn't fixup secret doors? 08:03:56 make it go do that 08:04:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:37 easier said than done 08:07:08 secret doors are supposed to be disguised as whatever wall type they're adjacent to, no? 08:08:54 if multiple wall times are adjacent to a secret door, the wall type that has the most is the one it disguises as 08:08:57 it appears not to work in not_minivault_9_mu 08:09:21 er, if that's placed in dis:1 which doesn't normally happen anyway 08:09:23 something about grid dungeon.cc placement nonsense for if there are two 08:09:28 but i guess the issue would show up in vaults 08:09:37 (Vaults with a V, argh) 08:09:49 -!- about is now known as ais523 08:10:05 !vault not_minivault_9_mu 08:10:10 Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/191656 08:10:29 i placed it on dis:1, and the one 'x' was indeed metal but all the secret doors were disguised as rock 08:12:28 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:30 -!- Wensley is now known as Roque 08:13:37 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 08:18:40 i totally lost track of whatever it was i originally intended to do now, but oh well 08:19:05 infinite crawl problems approached individually 08:19:11 and randomly 08:19:14 something completely unrelated to vaults, i blame HangedMan for this 08:20:50 maps are the end all and be all of design, everything else is just filler or raw material waiting to be shoved into a map 08:21:36 sadly hangedman is actually correct 08:22:23 how did that happen 08:22:57 sheer luck, I presume 08:44:20 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:55 <|amethyst> kilobyte: thanks, applied and put into my repo 08:49:52 <|amethyst> kilobyte: re wild magic, I believe the intention was for it to be a mostly-good mutation, even at higher levels; maybe it should be rebalanced so this is true, at least at level 2 08:55:02 i'd rather just tone down the success penalty a little bit maybe, yeah 08:57:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: hm... so with the change to monster, how do I go about building with the contrib SQLite? 08:57:42 maybe 7 or 8% per level 08:57:52 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I can't use the system sqlite on this machine because it's built without threadeding 08:58:45 -!- HousePet has quit [Quit: Divide by cucumber error] 09:00:34 |amethyst: it should detect sqlite's presence automatically 09:01:02 so I presume that this sqlite crash on startup is known? 09:01:17 or perhaps fixed since the time that I pulled last night? 09:01:38 Roque: what kind of crash? Some Mac breakage, or...? 09:01:43 debian 09:01:55 ASSERT(sqlite3_threadsafe()) in 'database.cc' at line 328 failed. 09:02:24 <|amethyst> are you using the contrib sqlite or your system's copy? 09:02:25 I had a friend who couldn't get crawl to run on windows last night, and he asked me to confirm it myself 09:02:29 contrib 09:02:30 afaik 09:02:32 03kilobyte * r2dbd7f598f77 10/crawl-ref/settings/runrest_messages.txt: Don't stop runrest due to Regeneration being close to expiring. 09:02:32 03kilobyte * rf2c6dd5f0f01 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: For kittehs, curse weapon/armour is only useless. 09:02:37 is there a command-line switch 09:02:56 because I do have sqlite on this system, but I've compiled crawl successfully before 09:03:04 <|amethyst> Roque: was this a fresh checkout? 09:03:14 Roque: uhm, Debian's sqlite is correct 09:03:16 nope, I submodule update'd 09:03:21 <|amethyst> hm 09:03:27 Roque: perhaps you did have an old set of contribs? 09:03:36 I will try blowing the directory away 09:03:43 <|amethyst> git submodule update should have worked 09:03:56 <|amethyst> assuming you ran it from the top directory (if not it would have complained) 09:04:00 this is not a race condition or some other kind of a random crash, this assertion either passes or not 09:05:24 (btw this is wensley, I am on irc from two computers atm) 09:08:02 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:14 <|amethyst> kilobyte: the system has a /usr/include/sqlite3.h but I can't use the version in /usr/lib because it's compiled without threading. And now make BUILD_SQLITE=y doesn't work either (it compiles with the version in contribs, but tries to link against the system version) 09:09:14 |amethyst: it doesn't use any variables, it checks the presence of /usr/include/sqlite3.h directly 09:09:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: right 09:09:26 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'm saying that doesn't always work 09:10:19 I fail to see how it could possibly do one but not the other, it's in a single if statement 09:10:58 <|amethyst> make BUILD_SQLITE=y passes BUILD_SQLITE=y to the crawl makefile, so crawl will be compiled with the contrib sqlite 09:11:22 <|amethyst> but as you said is ignored by the monster makefile, so it's linked with the system sqlite 09:11:44 <|amethyst> so I get missing symbols etc 09:12:22 <|amethyst> *without* BUILD_SQLITE=y I get the missing threadsafe symbol 09:12:52 <|amethyst> I'm testing allowing BUILD_SQLITE=y to override the automatic detection 09:13:39 |amethyst: except that does exactly nothing 09:13:53 <|amethyst> what does nothing? 09:14:14 |amethyst: BUILD_SQLITE=something 09:14:26 monster doesn't use the regular Makefile at all 09:14:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte: it has for some time 09:15:10 <|amethyst> kilobyte: ${MAKE} -C $(CRAWL_PATH) DEBUG= TILES= NO_LUA_BINDINGS=y 09:15:10 also, if you say you use Debian's sqlite and yet it has no threading support, something is terribly wrong. There was not a single version in Debian without it... 09:15:17 <|amethyst> no, this is not debian 09:15:30 ah right, Roque/Wensley 09:15:49 what system are you on? 09:15:59 <|amethyst> this is a Centos 5.3 box that I am not admin on 09:16:00 (got to go very soon) 09:16:03 -!- HangedMan is now known as hangedman|away 09:16:29 <|amethyst> hm... and now the error undefined reference to `sqlite3_prepare_v2' again 09:17:29 <|amethyst> oh 09:17:36 <|amethyst> oops, that one was my fault, reversed some logic 09:18:50 that sqlite_prepare_v2 would mean a version of Sqlite more than ~ten years old 09:19:36 <|amethyst> sqlite-3.3.6-5 09:20:40 <|amethyst> yes, /usr/include/sqlite3.h says 2001 September 15 09:20:51 :p 09:20:56 looks like a typical d:6 or so human caster has 4-6 in spellcasting/conj/whichever element, at 7% per level of wild magic that puts spell success at 15-20% or so at worst for level 2 spells and wild magic 2 09:21:06 spell failure, rather 09:23:32 kilobyte: blowing away my directory and rebuilding from scratch fixed the problem 09:24:27 which seems difficult but manageable, definitely not berserkitis-level 09:26:42 especially since the power boost is probably more of a big deal early, too 09:28:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I'll put a new version up on my repo once I get it working, that honours BUILD_SQLITE and BUILD_LUA in case the system version can't be trusted 09:30:07 <|amethyst> the server machine doesn't have ccache, so testing Makefile changes is a bit slow 09:35:39 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:29 -!- argonaut has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:02 -!- argonaut has quit [Client Quit] 09:47:32 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte okay, pushed to http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git 09:47:33 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 09:48:03 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte could probably use some testing on CDO to make sure it does actually use the system sqlite and lua 09:48:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 09:55:16 -!- vivec has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:00:52 <|amethyst> !tell kilobyte I also pushed a branch dcss010 ; it builds "monster-stable" instead of "monster-trunk" 10:00:52 |amethyst: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 10:01:29 Roxanne (028) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 180 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Flags: 11non-living, spellcaster | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 2672 | Sp: crystal spear (3d32), iron shot (3d26), blink other close, b.magma (3d23), mystic blast (3d19). 10:01:29 <|amethyst> %?roxanne 10:01:31 Roxanne (028) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 180 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Flags: 11non-living, spellcaster | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 2672 | Sp: crystal spear (3d32), iron shot (3d26), blink other close, b.magma (3d23), mystic blast (3d19). 10:01:31 <|amethyst> %??roxanne 10:01:34 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.10.1-54-ga41a5f4 10:01:34 <|amethyst> %?-version 10:01:37 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.11-a0-1001-g2dbd7f5 10:01:37 <|amethyst> %??-version 10:19:00 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:00 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:19:05 unknown monster: "does-not-exist" 10:19:05 <|amethyst> %?? does-not-exist 10:19:10 Error calling monster-trunk: 10:19:10 <|amethyst> %?? item mimic 10:19:14 <|amethyst> hmm 10:20:18 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:18 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:20:22 ASSERT(m->inv[MSLOT_MISCELLANY] != NON_ITEM) in 'mon-info.cc' at line 495 failed. 10:20:22 <|amethyst> %?? item mimic 10:20:28 <|amethyst> woot 10:22:33 enslaved nergalle can cast death's door 10:22:40 is that intended or an oversight? 10:23:23 why wouldn't she? 10:23:29 she's dead 10:23:32 (undead) 10:23:50 oh, as in yred enslave, not spell enslave 10:24:01 oh sorry, didn't think of that, yes 10:25:37 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:37 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:25:41 Roxanne (028) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 180 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Flags: 11non-living, spellcaster | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 2672 | Sp: crystal spear (3d32), iron shot (3d26), blink other close, b.magma (3d23), mystic blast (3d19). 10:25:41 <|amethyst> %?? roxanne 10:25:44 Error calling monster-trunk: unknown monster: "junk" 10:25:44 <|amethyst> %?? junk 10:25:47 Error calling monster-trunk: ASSERT(m->inv[MSLOT_MISCELLANY] != NON_ITEM) in 'mon-info.cc' at line 495 failed. 10:25:47 <|amethyst> %?? item mimic 10:25:56 <|amethyst> hrm 10:26:20 <|amethyst> I guess it's better without the "Error calling..." bit 10:26:46 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:46 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 10:27:11 |amethyst: I put this assert. 10:27:20 hey MarvinPA 10:27:27 Remember that bug with statues and apportation 10:27:31 guess what 10:27:33 oh, i guess it doesn't check ms_waste_of_time for emergency spells 10:27:43 when monster item mimic is generated, it picks the item. This is to make sure it works. 10:27:56 it's still broken and the exact same vault 10:28:14 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28:19 <|amethyst> galehar: I was mostly just testing how Chei handles errors 10:28:39 ok 10:28:39 ZChris13: i have no idea what bug or vault you mean, is it on mantis? 10:28:39 no it is a different vault my bad 10:28:42 <|amethyst> galehar: I don't know if there's a good way to handle item mimics in 'monster', since items are not initialised 10:28:44 Yeah 10:28:52 wait no 10:28:59 maybe? 10:29:07 no the bug I was thinking of was different 10:29:10 I'm confused 10:29:21 are you supposed to be able to apport items through statues? 10:30:50 probably not 10:31:09 well you can apport items through statues and through grates 10:31:16 and it's on the mantis 10:31:55 <|amethyst> maybe use LOS_SOLID instead of LOS_NO_TRANS ? 10:32:11 you need to be able to do some things through grates 10:34:02 <|amethyst> yeah, you.trans_wall_blocking() shouldn't change; rather, apportation should use something other than you.trans_wall_blocking() 10:53:02 does anyone around have some detailed knowledge of lua, map defs, vault placement, level generators, that side of things? 10:53:13 i'm experimenting with some Vaults layouts and got something good working, but hit some snags 10:54:08 <|amethyst> I've found building with FULLDEBUG can be useful: you can see exactly what causes vetos 10:54:13 mumra, sounds exciting - what are the snags? 10:54:48 |amethyst: i've got vaults placing now without veto ... Zabe, well there are two things 10:55:12 maybe three 10:55:22 firstly -- i'm getting a map using: 10:55:28 local map = dgn.map_by_tag("vaults_room_"..room_type) 10:55:41 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-1001-g2dbd7f5 (32) 10:55:57 that's fine, that gets me a mapdef -- but then i'd like to be able to read a) the size of the map and b) what other tags are on it 10:56:21 but as far as i can tell it's not possible, certainly can't find any other examples of this in lua 10:56:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:32 Let me just explain the layout: it's a big corridor in a square. Then I generate boxes with doors protruding from this corridor. 10:58:00 It's a version of the first example (Square Ring) i posted on the wiki: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:vaults 10:58:18 Except it's better than that diagram, it's more randomised and chaotic, and less total rooms 10:59:07 mumra, and you want to place vaults into the rooms using lua? 10:59:12 Yes 10:59:25 mumra, it sounds like subvaults would work better for that 10:59:36 I've got it working, as long as: the vaults are a strict size, and can be rotated to any angle 11:00:12 Zaba: the problem with subvaults is they don't allow as much randomness as I want 11:01:12 <|amethyst> mumra: do you need to get the list of tags, or check for particular tags? 11:01:12 mumra, how so? They can be variable-size as well 11:02:54 Zaba: I want to create subvaults as mini-encounters, so either cropping the subvaults or putting them in a bigger empty space could be problematic 11:03:10 mumra, the subvaults can generate their contents with lua code according to the size 11:03:53 i haven't seen examples of that but it could be useful for some cases 11:03:57 mumra: how about some screenshots of your new layout? :) 11:04:12 mumra, special rooms use that 11:04:25 .. or do they. 11:04:40 well, they are variable size, but they are so trivial they don't have to care what exactly their size is 11:04:41 but here's a counter example: a mini-labyrinth. I want to design it by hand (not Lua). But cropping the edges or surrounding it with empty space would be weird. 11:05:51 making a screenshot 1sec 11:09:16 what's a good image paste bin? 11:10:26 <|amethyst> mumra: back to your original question, dgn.tags(map) and dgn.mapsize(map) though the latter seems to give me just 0 0 11:10:52 <|amethyst> err, 0 11:11:11 ok 11:12:46 well, can do it hackishly thru tags by having a vaults_room_x_by_y tag 11:13:13 mumra: imgur 11:13:24 i don't 100% need the tags otherwise, but i had some ideas for how to use them (e.g. signifying that certain events should happen when you open a door) 11:13:45 e.g. a water-filled vault that floods the corridor slightly 11:14:41 Wensley: thanks 11:14:43 http://imgur.com/JcT2s 11:14:50 http://i.imgur.com/JcT2s.jpg 11:15:29 <|amethyst> hm... why doesn't dgn.mapsize() work here? 11:15:37 <|amethyst> maybe the map has to be placed first? 11:15:51 that's probably it, a lot of processing happens when the map is actually placed 11:16:25 another problem I'm having is orientation: I can't find a way to maybe a vault rotate to a specific direction 11:16:39 mumra: that looks really good! put it in immediately and with no hesitation 11:16:43 the plan was to design them all to be entered from the south: then i can rotate them appropriately for which wall they're on 11:17:05 Wensley: thanks :) it needs a lot more subvaults for variability tho 11:17:15 tell hangedman 11:18:06 currently the orientation seems to be completely random (even if I use an @ symbol) 11:18:25 ah ... maybe i know why that is 11:19:35 bleh this monster casting code is confusing me 11:19:42 could all adjacent subvaults be separated by only one wall? that way you could also have subvaults defined such that they connect to adjacent ones 11:20:09 needs spret_abort/spret_success/spret_fail like player spells :( 11:20:17 <|amethyst> mumra: dgn.reuse_map seems to take flags for flipping/rotating 11:20:18 spell rewrite 11:21:11 <|amethyst> mumra: dgn.place_map takes no such flags though :( 11:21:31 Wensley: Would be technically possible (although I would implement it in a different way) 11:22:04 Wensley: The code is very generalised so it can add these rooms onto any surface, including an inner wall of another room 11:22:13 cool 11:22:19 I mean cool 11:22:55 Wensley: this layout is only a demo, the next one will be a chaotic_city replacement using the same subvaults 11:23:12 is that the dis layout 11:23:23 slash the current layout 11:27:12 dis needs a unique layout. i have some ideas for hell branches. one thing at a time tho :) 11:29:07 damn, i thought i'd fixed the rotation problem, but it's not working -- will have a look at reuse_map 11:30:33 <|amethyst> mumra: I think it's currently used in zigs 11:32:48 thanks - ziggurats were what i needed. i think they're doing basically what i need. 11:33:11 <|amethyst> ah 11:33:30 <|amethyst> and dgn.resolve_map() causes the size to be set properly 11:34:31 yup, it's performing part of the placement process somewhat more manually (following through the logic of place_map i saw it happen but didn't realise there was also an lua call for it) 11:34:57 so i guess at that point the map has been parsed and we can know how big it is 11:41:28 should undead monsters be able to cast regen? 11:41:47 probably not 11:41:47 alefury: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:41:52 !messages 11:41:53 (1/2) due said (15h 7m 55s ago): That is about it in a nutshell. I haven't had much time for Crawl dev recently, so no new wizlabs. 11:41:59 !messages 11:41:59 (1/1) due said (15h 7m 52s ago): If you pester me though, there is every likelihood that I will start making somethign! :D 11:42:12 i think the only type of monster that can get regen while undead is spectral nergalle, and she probably shouldn't at least 11:42:12 hmmmm 11:42:15 intriguing 11:43:12 but monster ghouls/vampires should be able to cast it in theory, i suppose 11:43:35 why does an ornate deck of cards cost 2000 in a shop 11:43:50 who would ever buy that for half a zig 11:43:54 Pacra: because prices make no sense 11:44:07 at least some of them dont, especially misc item prices 11:44:20 i thought someone rewrote item/randart prices! 11:44:34 dpeg and someone else worked on prices for a bit iirc 11:44:40 but they didnt get around to misc items 11:44:50 also kilobyte recently introduced a stepdown for very high prices 11:45:04 i'll write something up for misc items on wiki if no one else is working on it 11:45:04 so some stuff did get a little more sane 11:45:17 no more 50k sword of jihad at least, yeah 11:45:25 but that is probably an ornate deck of escape for 2k :P 11:45:39 oh 11:45:50 I also ran into a bug twice, in two different games 11:46:00 regarding the new unique shop vaults 11:46:33 if the vaultshop shows up, multiple shops afterwards will be called the same thing with different shop owners 11:46:43 even though they are normal shops of other kinds 11:46:57 for instance, Fxhui's Fishing Shop appears in a vault 11:47:08 run through the dungeon, five other shops appear 11:47:23 also called something like "Jebuuah's Fishing Store" 11:47:33 yet it is a normal book/wand/weapon/etc store 11:47:51 it happened again for a "Pet Rocks" store as well 11:51:35 absolutego: fixed the nergalle thing, thanks for pointing it out and curse you for making me spend ages fixing assorted monster casting bugs :P 11:52:36 03MarvinPA * r5cc8d0ab4874 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h spl-cast.cc): Tone down Wild Magic's success penalty instead of marking it as bad 11:52:36 03MarvinPA * r5b1faeb64899 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Don't apport items through statues/grates 11:52:37 03MarvinPA * r1e591cb76ee8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Fix monster-cast Vampiric Draining ignoring rN+ 11:52:37 03MarvinPA * r999fb6793a96 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let monsters cast disallowed spells when low on health 11:52:47 03MarvinPA * re138055e44ae 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let undead monsters cast Regeneration 11:52:47 03MarvinPA * rf63e3e493e7f 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let monsters waste turns casting Vampiric Draining on nothing 11:53:41 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:57 hmm ... for some reason dgn.resolve_map is locking up crawl 11:58:52 am too gimmick based to be able to contribute lots of subvault ideas as the base of the Vaults overhaul, wensley / roque 11:59:57 oh wait looking at an example image already gives me some ideas 12:00:16 heh :) 12:00:34 what precisely is supposed to be the coherent theme for monsters set in your Vaults, mumra? 12:00:45 the idea is quite gimmick-based anyway. at least, some subvaults should be encounters/gimmicks, some are just randomised 12:00:52 is it just "anything as long as it's self-contained" 12:01:52 HangedMan: Not sure if you read the forum thread when it mentioned the idea for "native" vault monsters to be a limited set of artifical monsters (golems, sentinals, dancing swords, vault gaurds ...) 12:02:00 making subvaults for this would cut into some of my sprint ideas... but I guess it's a worthwhile sacrifice 12:02:27 HangedMan: But my thought is that each vault can contain any kind of monster set from any part of the dungeon, as long as it's an appropriate challenge. 12:02:28 oooo, I can re-use some of my ideas for a hall of blades serial vault 12:02:38 HangedMan: Sort of like the vaults are an ancient museum 12:02:42 golems are pretty boringgggg 12:03:02 HangedMan: But they can be interesting combined with sentinel statues that e.g. haste or invis them 12:03:04 elementals are passably more interesting but those should be elf stuff, really 12:03:52 The interesting stuff should all be in the boxes anyway; golems etc. will guard the corridors 12:03:59 once I get through my late-d/portal vault vaults I'll add a whole bunch, but give them low weights and stuff 12:04:14 But, tweaking the monster set is the easy part (there are other ideas on the wiki for monster set separation) 12:05:09 bands 12:05:31 except bands suck in vault designation because they'll be placed inside wallssssss 12:05:49 rock worm bands 12:06:45 rock orc bands 12:07:34 nome bands 12:10:16 |amethyst: how are you using resolve_map and mapsize? i seem to be completely crashing crawl every time i try (it just locks up, no error message) 12:11:46 <|amethyst> mumra: in &^T I'm doing: map,vp = dgn.resolve_map(dgn.map_by_tag("entry")); print(dgn.mapsize(map)) 12:11:58 mumra: let's start a forum thread where you post a basic template for a subvault for this layout and then people respond with posts of their own 12:12:00 between my ideas for a sprint that vaguely resembles some of the structure of that ring layout, my time limit based gameshow gauntlet vault, and this Vaults overhaul, I'm vaguely worrying about flooding crawl with lots of isolated thematic encounters making stuff too common 12:12:22 wensley did you steal my exquisite corpse sprint idea 12:13:43 what is it 12:14:11 do you not know what an exquisite corpse is 12:16:03 people would sign up for specific threats in difficulty tiers, submit vaults in said groupings that would fit given dimensions, and then they'd be thrown down into a big winding gauntlet 12:17:01 I have no clue what you are saying 12:17:06 HangedMan: that is quite like one of my Vaults layout ideas (without the difficulty choice!) 12:17:09 what else is new 12:17:23 so much overlap 12:17:50 HangedMan: But I want to keep the weight of "special" encounters overall quite low, a lot of the rooms will be generic random monster sets (from carefully chosen weighted combinations) 12:18:22 HangedMan: there is still room for a Sprint based on the layout; you could probably reuse the code 12:18:39 certainly something I will keep in mind 12:19:52 there's a serial vault of mine that built in the dlineated room concept, if you want some extra material to work with, mumra 12:20:04 that's built in the 12:20:50 (dat/des/serial/magic_research.des) 12:31:05 |amethyst: I can't even get that to work in &^T 12:31:15 |amethyst: It won't let me type a long enough line 12:31:38 |amethyst: And if I do it on two lines it doesn't print anything ... 12:32:17 mumra: so what do you say about that forum thread? I'd like to make a subvault or two of my own :P 12:32:18 |amethyst: ignore above, crawl.mpr works instead of print 12:32:52 Roque: Sounds good - the template is really simple 12:33:51 Just a map in the range 6x6-10x10, and assume the player is entering from the south, if it's non-rotateable (I don't think I can easily automate it with the @ marker) 12:34:10 why not just do what vaults:8 does 12:34:27 and make it non-symmetrical on one side or corner in a tiny way to give it a placement orientation 12:36:13 Roque: some examples here - http://pastebin.com/QShAMPKq 12:37:13 HangedMan: For that to work, I then have to rely on standard subvault placement, which won't do exactly what I want in other ways (or would require some serious coding around) 12:37:56 because of the layouts besides the ring layout have multiple entrances involved? 12:38:27 HangedMan: that wasn't what I was thinking, but it's also true 12:38:50 so much trickery to worry about 12:39:41 big fish in Vaults depth, sigh 12:40:16 The thing is I *could* just use all the standard vault placement and not try to manipulate the positions. But it wouldn't quite get the desired effect, 12:40:16 you couldn't guarantee doors for one thing, so all the minivaults would have to include doors themselves; and there are other things I want to do with doors (e.g. the keys proposal) 12:40:43 water monsters really get stuck in shoals/swamp and there's almost nothing of interest outside of 'em besides eels, which are tedious 12:41:53 i'm just experimenting to see what works 12:42:02 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:11 i want to have a rare flooded kraken vault 12:43:52 some of the "empty" vaults will receive random monster / item placement so anything in them shoudl be just flavour and non-threatening 12:44:10 which is why there is on average a single fish in the "latrine" vault :) 12:45:38 but even just a shark! 12:46:02 shark (16;) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 23-52 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 18, 9 | Flags: cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 205. 12:46:02 %?? shark 12:46:37 i'm more worried about getting the layout and placement working :) i really really quickly created some minivaults to test this with ... don't gripe about the monster selection, make better ones for me :) 12:46:53 pwehehehe 12:47:30 this would be easiest with direct testing access but I'm not on a good computer for that and I bet I'd need to figure out git to get it working 12:48:12 actually, i can post two des files to get it running, i started tweaking some c++ but it's non-essential 12:49:01 the working version supports 9x9 rotatable vaults only though; whatever i do, dgb.resolve_map is locking everything up, so i can't get variable sized vaults ... 12:49:25 hmm 12:49:35 s/dgb/dgn 12:50:29 aha 12:50:39 that typo was in my code as well ;) 12:54:35 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:27 HangedMan: 13:02:36 builder/layout_vaults.des -- http://pastebin.com/6HifNPjM 13:02:47 branches/vaults_new.des -- http://pastebin.com/yBgGBYcD 13:03:37 Copy in both those files and the layout should work 13:03:55 mumra: do you have a branch somewhere 13:04:03 Roque: Only locally 13:04:18 put it online! 13:04:21 share the love 13:04:50 i just did :) you only have to copy two files into des/builder and des/branches 13:05:12 blehhhhh 13:05:17 that's sooo hangedman 13:05:49 i'll push to a fork, i just need to make a new one ... trying to figure out this resolve_map thing first tho 13:10:03 mumra: let me know when you have that branch up and I'll make that tavern post if you'd like :) 13:23:43 let me just do the usual re-read all of dat/des/variable to make sure I don't have any overlap and I will make dozens of tricks 13:30:59 -!- lord-naughty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:31:34 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:00 cool :) 13:32:23 the various types of room are : upstairs, downstairs, encounter, empty, loot 13:32:24 -!- lord-naughty has quit [Client Quit] 13:34:00 loot vaults will be one per level if you're lucky and contain minimal threat but some nice loot / shop 13:34:42 easy chance for mimic use 13:34:55 hehe :) 13:35:47 stair vaults will have up to 3 each per level, the idea is you regularly have to break your way in or out of the levels 13:36:52 (of course once there are keys, stair and loot vaults will sometimes be locked, so you might have to fight your way through an additional "keymaster" room and then make a choice of which to unlock...) 13:37:24 heh 13:45:33 does my rest really need to be interrupted so that i can "hear a grinding noise" every turn 13:47:54 by default I don't think it does that 13:48:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:33 don't think i changed that default :) 14:00:23 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:46 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:30 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:52 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:50 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:43 kilobyte: statue form preventing tengu from using their innate flying is inconsistent. It doesn't land them if they transform when flying. Also, statue form doesn't block any other source of flying/lev. 14:08:52 and you can fly when overloaded too 14:09:08 so, how about we remove it? 14:09:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:54 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 14:11:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:11:44 i don't see why they wouldn't still be able to fly magically in statue form, yeah 14:20:55 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:22:45 that was b0a008971 14:26:02 does anyone know why dgn.resolve_map would be incredibly slow and basically not work during layout generation? 14:26:05 It seems odd that very few classes can start with long blades. Why is this restriction in place? 14:26:35 the alternative would be to make statue form ultra-heavy and prevent all forms of flying/levitation. I don't think it's worth the hassle though. 14:26:37 Blade-: because the weakest long blade is still much better than a hand axe or mace 14:26:55 <|amethyst> to make those classes special 14:27:22 seems like the natural thing to do would be have a weak long blade rather than make long blades rather impractical to use 14:27:41 cross-training! 14:27:49 Blade-: people have agreed that rebalancing starting weapons would be good, but it makes sense to wait until melee damage formula reform 14:27:52 <|amethyst> long blades are frequent spawns in early D 14:28:01 also, yes, cross-training with short blades 14:28:24 I'm not sure how the flavour for tengu works, but if they're supposed to fly with wings I guess it's reasonable for that to break with staue form. But it could go wither way I guess. 14:28:53 yes, but it's still more impractical than the other "standard" weapon classes, because you need to wait for a random drop and have cross-training. 14:28:56 <|amethyst> ghallberg: the crawl ones are supposed to fly without wings 14:28:57 but meh 14:29:06 <|amethyst> ghallberg: which is why they can wear armour, unlike draconians 14:29:23 |amethyst: Ok. 14:29:24 galehar: statue form letting tengu who are already flying stay flying but preventing them from using their fly ability if they aren't seems rather bad, yes 14:29:52 <|amethyst> I'd be okay with statue form + fly/levitate not working at all :) 14:29:58 leda's liquefaction prevents all flight i think (or at least, cancels if you take off) so i guess statue form could work the same way 14:30:01 galehar: I could see making statue form cancel tengu flight 14:30:19 I don't think it makes much sense for it to cancel magical flight though 14:30:38 tengu flight is magical flight, isn't it? 14:30:40 elliptic: isn't tengu's flying magical? 14:30:43 is it? 14:30:53 they fly with innate magic 14:31:23 they can wear cloak and body armour, so they don't actually have wings 14:31:23 <|amethyst> it's magical the same way merfolk fishtail-leg transformations are magical 14:31:32 in that case I say just remove the restriction on not being able to start flying while in statue form (which is pretty irrelevant if you can do it in the other order) 14:31:37 "Despite their lack of wings, powerful Tengu can fly, and very powerful members of this species can stay in the air for as long as they wish to do so." 14:31:52 "powerful" = XL 5, nice 14:31:57 heh 14:32:21 when I was starting out that felt pretty powerful 14:32:36 we could make statue form and flight mutually exclusive but I don't think it is really very natural 14:33:07 the comment from the commit which introduced the restriction (b0a00897) specifically says that it would be good to land them, but nobody did. 14:34:02 I think kilobyte was working on consistency of the effect of forms on innate mutations at the time (like should a naga keep spitting poison when transformed? That kind of things) 14:34:40 "Despite their lack of wings, average Tengu can fly, and mighty members of this species..." the ghost experience levels aren't quite accurate, but the breakpoints are close :P 14:35:30 I'm of the opinion that it would be simpler to remove the restriction since it has no interesting gameplay effect and the justification is dubious, since they fly magically 14:35:43 galehar: if it is a magical ability and not something physical, I don't see why being a statue should matter... yeah 14:36:11 petrification does not cause fly to expire afaik 14:36:23 <|amethyst> Roque: really? 14:36:28 <|amethyst> oh, magical fly 14:36:31 right 14:36:33 @??gargoyle 14:36:34 gargoyle (159) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 13-31 | AC/EV: 18/6 | Damage: 10, 6, 6 | Flags: 11non-living, fly | Res: 06magic(32), 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 142. 14:36:39 just sayin 14:36:46 yes, we would have to make petrification drown player tengu 14:37:01 there's something amazing about petrification and drowning, actually 14:37:14 in that if you drop into a liquid when petrified you still scramble free 14:37:18 *does* petrification negate flight? 14:37:22 would be news to me 14:37:30 monster flight yes, player flight no 14:37:50 HangedMan: i feel like what should happen is nothing, until your petrification wears off, and then you try to scramble free 14:37:51 roque: it negates monster flight (not levitation since that is magical) 14:37:53 <|amethyst> my spst had much fun with harpies in shoals 14:37:53 what about paralysis? it should for the "natural" fliers 14:38:04 isn't this a point of distinction between monster flight and monster levitation 14:38:06 galehar: I forget whether it does 14:38:06 or potentially 14:38:08 HangedMan: yes 14:38:42 it might be the only distinction, I forget 14:39:06 HangedMan: also you can't scramble while petrified anymore 14:39:23 oh? 14:39:42 wonderful, clearly I should put in a quicksilver dragon into flesh_and_stone 14:40:26 different question: who understands the ziggurat lua best, and why dgb.resolve_map works there, but not for me 14:40:33 it works, you can drown harpies with paralysis too 14:42:00 mumra: I see you've been testing some ideas out with vaults layout... I think st_ was working / going to work on creating many square minivaults to spice it up 14:42:28 not mutually exclusive! 14:42:43 indeed, just mentioning since it sounds like you might be doing something similar 14:43:22 though I don't really know much about what either of you are doing! 14:46:00 it doesn't seem like a falchion is significantly better than a hand axe 14:46:07 @??falchion 14:46:08 <|amethyst> mumra: are the pastebinned versions still the current ones? and do I just need to uncomment the line that calls resolve_map to get the crash? 14:46:08 unknown monster: "falchion" 14:46:10 ??falchion 14:46:10 I mean, it gets one more damage, but that's not a huge deal 14:46:15 falchion[1/1]: One handed long blade, Dam: 8, Acc +2, Delay 13 14:46:15 ??hand axe 14:46:15 hand axe[1/1]: A small axe designed for either hand combat or throwing. (one-handed axe; Dmg 7 Acc +3 Delay 130%) 14:46:42 what about just dropping falchion damage by 1 14:46:50 yes please 14:46:52 <|amethyst> ??sabre 14:46:52 sabre[1/2]: Base damage:7, To-hit:+4, attack delay:120% short blade. Best common short blade in the game, though daggers are better for stabbing. Quick blades deal damage faster, their relative effectiveness increasing with slaying and decreasing with AC. 14:47:50 eronarn: and then we could increase its accuracy by 1 and make it identical to hand axe! 14:48:50 to make sure they're different, make throwing hand axes occasionally have some crazy explosion 14:49:36 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:40 I just don't think the argument that "falchion is better than hand axe and we can't nerf it at all because then it would be too similar to hand axe" really holds up :/ 14:49:50 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:54 disregarding the whole "spears are better anyway" thing 14:50:08 seriously, low-end weapons need lots of work 14:50:16 including axing most of the maces 14:50:40 unarmed_reasons: just be overly strong instead of worrying about individual weapon balance 14:50:53 and also there are plans afoot to change melee damage formulas 14:51:05 |amethyst: yes that should trigger it, but I've rewritten things quite a bit since then to probe further 14:51:12 too many split priorities 14:51:30 (on that note, it seems odd that unarmed can have very good damage despite never having to find a weapon) 14:51:33 hasn't every dev already given galehar their todos for 0.11 so a coherent checklist be made yet 14:51:40 giving long blades to everyone is not a high priority, yes 14:51:52 HangedMan: oh was I supposed to do that? 14:51:54 |amethyst: basically resolve_map is always returning nil when called during level generation. i'm not sure how ziggurats make it work. 14:52:20 well I can't remember if it was galehar 14:52:25 I remember a "ale" 14:52:44 elliptic: yes i fancied having a go at some of my ideas from the vaults wiki page 14:53:47 elliptic: it's working really well for a fixed vault size; but to get things more flexible i need dgn.resolve_map which isn't working for some reason 14:54:13 elliptic: i'm exactly copying code from the ziggurate lua but in this instance it fails and i don't know why 14:55:19 RE: tengu, flight, and statue form 14:55:35 Black Dracs also have a flight ability. 14:55:45 and it interacts weirdly with dragon form 14:55:51 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:56:00 possibly also with other forms, but I haven't tried. 14:56:58 hm, does that flight ability really serve any purpose? 14:56:58 <|amethyst> mumra: it seems it's not hanging, just taking a long time (and then not working) 14:57:31 |amethyst: yeah - if i set the second parameter to false, it takes less time, but still fails 14:57:45 elliptic: which flight ability? 14:57:48 Black dracs? 14:57:49 save three spell slots / troggites / "black draconian breath is already pretty idiosyncratic but xl 14 needs to still be a checkpoint" 14:57:51 yes 14:57:52 It's pretty cool I guess 14:58:13 |amethyst: i've tried various combinations of setting dungeon glyphs / features before the call to see if it was trying to resolve against current architecture and failing due to lack of space 14:58:16 flight has no tactical use for them, unlike tengu 14:58:18 but nothing seems to make a difference 14:58:33 so it is just a ring of levitation gift 14:58:36 it still is an almost free flight 14:58:46 the ring goes on the tail 14:58:48 no spell slots, no equipment slots 14:59:03 HangedMan: <3 14:59:04 i used it in the abyss 15:00:02 don't forget moths of suppression 15:00:04 what about making it permaflight but without the tengu bonuses? 15:00:37 and the permabuff issues thing doesn't come up becaue it's a specific draconian colour anyway? 15:01:10 permabuff issues thing? tengu permaflight works fine 15:01:24 also adds more symmetry with monster black draconians even though they've got completely different breath (fr monster sneeze) 15:01:53 I was just thinking of the permabuffs debate a while back, probably not very applicable really 15:02:22 making flight permanent is mainly just convenience 15:02:25 seems fine for it to be permanent but with no bonuses to me, yeah 15:02:43 basically free boots of levitation 15:03:11 oh, this reminds me... does anyone have a plan about grey dracs 15:03:28 I think they would be okay if we made them not fumble in water 15:03:33 grey dracs are terrible although I'm in a position to win my first drac on one 15:03:41 earth theme came up a while back but earth breath wasn't agreed on 15:03:43 but I know there has been talk about making them earth-themed or something 15:03:53 basically making them tiny iron dragons 15:04:13 keep the no breath but give them higher defenses or something 15:04:23 and they still fumble in water 15:04:34 petrification clouds would be too strong, mud breath would possibly be buggy or silly, metal fillings thing that hurts self but is irresistable is still boring 15:04:49 shotgun breath 15:05:28 changing their stealth/stabbing that nobody makes very good use of into better defenses is a possibility, yes 15:06:12 the tailslap damage increase is pretty meh 15:06:22 do they still get that 15:06:57 hmm ... is there something odd with the ziggurat implementation, where it's actually 1 level that gets destroyed and recreated with each portal? 15:07:04 HangedMan: what damage increase? 15:07:15 they get knockback in deep water 15:07:20 oh 15:07:22 except that they don't because they fumble 15:07:36 <|amethyst> mumra: hm... so _dgn_resolve_map and the C++ resolve_map seem to be completely different 15:07:39 I think that was old grey dracs 15:07:47 self-balanced 15:07:52 they had a really vague spiky martial arts theme 15:08:14 monster grey draconians still have something like that, don't they 15:08:20 @??red draconian 15:08:22 red draconian (05d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 83-115 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 05fire | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1601 | Sp: fire breath (3d18). 15:08:25 @??grey draconian 15:08:25 grey draconian (15d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 83-115 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 25, 15 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1769 | Sp: nonexistent spell. 15:08:35 yes they do 15:08:39 @??red draconian monk 15:08:40 nonexistent spell 15:08:40 red draconian monk (02d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 108-133 | AC/EV: 6/20 | Damage: 35, 20, 15 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2671 | Sp: fire breath (3d20). 15:08:41 they also get the best spell 15:08:41 haha 15:08:45 @??grey draconian monk 15:08:46 grey draconian monk (02d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 108-133 | AC/EV: 6/20 | Damage: 35, 20, 15 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(64) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2671 | Sp: nonexistent spell. 15:08:58 nice differentiation for grey draconian monk there 15:09:10 exactly the same as red only worse 15:09:32 maybe gretell's not showing off their extremely important meph resistance 15:09:45 and aphyx resistance or whatever 15:09:56 i like the idea of them being earth/metal with asphyx resist 15:10:30 grey draconian (15d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 83-115 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Damage: 25, 15 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1769 | Sp: nonexistent spell. 15:10:30 %??grey draconian 15:10:32 elemental monsters are actually somewhat boring anyway 15:10:35 hmm 15:10:59 they do have rdrown 15:11:02 maybe give grey dracs some GDR? 15:11:05 |amethyst: you're maybe saying that i'll need to do this from c++ or at least expose some new lua functionality? 15:11:42 elliptic: gdr + slightly more AC than regular dracs would make them super great, wouldn't it? 15:12:04 <|amethyst> mumra: sounds like it... the problem is that the Lua _dgn_resolve_map ultimately calls apply_vault_grid, which tries to find a place for the vault 15:12:59 |amethyst: that's pretty much what i guessed ... i've been trying to circumvent that by filling the map with open terrain first, but still no joy 15:18:05 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:30:25 where are dlua functions defined? 15:31:39 ./dat/dlua? 15:32:35 crawl 15:32:48 ah, theres also dlua.cc 15:32:57 oops, sorry wrong window 15:33:30 the dng.* functions are in l_dgn.cc 15:38:46 oh god, i regret saying ill look into nicer portal timers 15:39:31 well, you've looked into it 15:39:33 even tracking down how the current timers work is looking to be, lets call it a learning experience 15:40:09 well, ill wait for msysgit to install and the crawl repo to download, then i can grep for stuff, that will help a bit 15:40:21 and i kinda want to learn how this lua stuff works anyway... 15:42:19 HangedMan: any hints on where to start? with learning about the lua stuff i mean? 15:42:41 sorry, have even less of a clue on how to deal with lua then you do 15:43:09 i doubt that. 15:43:24 oh well, wikipedia and lua.org it is... 15:43:54 -!- HangedMan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:44:21 galehar: what kinda stuff in particular are you looking for? i have a good general knowledge of grammar and syntax 15:44:33 and a slowly increasing knowledge of crawl's lua 15:44:44 s/slowly/rapidly 15:45:15 holy crap ... 15:45:31 |amethyst: i got it working with an extra bool property to dgn.resolve_map 15:46:22 although for some reason i still have to fill the level with floor first ... 15:47:01 im not galehar, but i think you mean me? 15:47:15 <|amethyst> mumra: as in you added another parameter, or you passed false for checkcollisions? 15:48:58 mostly i would like to know about basic lua syntax, and some basics about how lua is used in crawl. also, how crawl lua functions are defined (wheres the c++ backend, how is lua told about this, etc) 15:49:07 |amethyst: had already tried checkcollisions; it doesn't stop the call to apply_vault_grid. so i added a new parameter for ignore_grid that also skips that 15:49:26 alefury: the l_*.cc files define the lua interface 15:49:46 alefury: they define numerous namespaces and the lua objects / functions available there 15:49:56 <|amethyst> mumra: my change was a little different 15:50:18 alefury: it's mostly mapping lots of function parameters to c++ functions 15:50:25 <|amethyst> mumra: I added a new function that calls *only* resolve_map 15:50:48 <|amethyst> mumra: I seem to get "Item buggily placed in feature" at times 15:50:59 |amethyst: i started off doing that, then realised a new parameter was needed, since apply_vault_grid is called farther down the chain 15:51:39 <|amethyst> mumra: the C++ resolve_map doesn't call apply_vault_grid itself though 15:51:57 would anyone be opposed to a dungeon feature that just spawned butterflies infinitely 15:52:27 the challenge is to get off the level before the game hits some assert 15:52:52 I've never done a melee Zot:5 15:52:58 crap 15:53:43 |amethyst: the problem then is that you need the vault_placement which normally gets returned from the lua resolve_map 15:53:53 |amethyst: you have to use vplace to call reuse_map 15:54:07 Wensley: i had fun with elliptic's new imb code yesterday, by making the imbs explode into imbs that explode into more imbs that explode into more imbs... 15:54:16 hahaha, what? 15:54:19 new imb code?? 15:54:50 <|amethyst> mumra: oh, right, you're using the returned vault placement 15:55:07 Wensley: http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commit/a5a4ff3438490b43244aa8c12bf746cf4e125b72 15:55:23 it was briefly an actual explosion but that was annoying 15:55:27 <|amethyst> mumra: actually, I just noticed that no one ever passes checkcollisions=false 15:55:59 so now it explodes into a few random blasts instead 15:55:59 <|amethyst> mumra: maybe you should just make that flag avoid apply_vault_grid too 15:56:37 that imb thing is cool 15:56:38 <|amethyst> mumra: oh, right 15:56:56 <|amethyst> mumra: vault_main() itself does get called from multiple places, and it would need the flag too 15:57:01 <|amethyst> and write_vault etc 15:59:41 yeah, i added a new flag to all of them, because i didn't know how/why elsewhere might depend on the collision flag 16:00:27 <|amethyst> I'd still have the lua function take just one flag, though 16:00:31 the "clobber" parameter is used in a few places 16:00:33 <|amethyst> since no one uses the flag it's got 16:01:16 Global Notice] Hi everyone - a couple of new blogposts this evening about our upcoming services upgrade. Please give both a read - you may lose access to nicks as a result of the changes if you don't take action soon. Also, please help to test our testnet. See planet.freenode.net! (If it doesn't load, please try in 30 mins or so..). Cheers! 16:01:44 well, for the sake of an extra optional parameter on an lua function that's very rarely used in any case, i don't think it matters 16:06:32 R18 (L17 NaHe) ASSERT(feat < NUM_FEATURES) in 'feature.cc' at line 24 failed. (Abyss) 16:07:05 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:15 Global Notice] Just to clarify - our blogposts can be found at http://planet.freenode.net. 16:08:44 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:12 -!- Zannick is now known as mzannick 16:17:16 -!- mzannick is now known as Zannick 16:18:16 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:41 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:15 -!- ToBeFree is now known as ToBeAFK 16:24:26 -!- ToBeAFK is now known as ToBeFree 16:28:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:29:41 ok, so now resolve is working fine but the game crashes on reuse_map ... the crash log says "stack trace not supported on this platform" 16:30:11 elliptic: making grey drac not fumble in water sounds good to me. I think they did at some point, but I changed it when I cleaning up some stuff about unbreathing 16:30:15 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:55 making them "water draconians" could work. As long as they don't benefit from it as much as merfolk do. 16:31:41 are the water and buffed defenses proposals exclusive? 16:32:59 elliptic: I ask around for people's todos with the idea of setting up a planning for 0.11. I did ask you but told me you didn't have much going on :) 16:33:28 MarvinPA: did I ask you? Don't think you've told me what you're up to 16:33:43 aha yeah, i haven't 16:34:30 i'd like to take a better look at the vehumet spell gifting patch and maybe do some work on that 16:35:10 anyway, I'm a bit struggling for free time currently. Should be better in a couple of weeks. I hope I'll be able to move forward some projects. 16:35:35 MarvinPA: right, that would be good :) 16:36:10 oh and i'd really like to get some of the proposed summoning fixes started on (per-spell summon cap, expiring faster when out of LOS) but i probably couldn't do that on my own and haven't even started looking at what it would require :P 16:36:28 so mainly just the vehumet thing, and whatever other minor things come up 16:37:39 galehar: yeah, buffed defenses and no fumbling aren't exclusive... I'd suggest replacing the stealth/stabbing with them, and reflavor as iron/unbreathing drac 16:38:06 -!- |amethyst is now known as lamethyst 16:38:18 -!- lamethyst is now known as \amethys1 16:38:18 MarvinPA: ok, noted 16:38:18 -!- \amethys1 is now known as \amethyst 16:39:03 elliptic: so, how does being unbreathing and made of iron help them move easily in water. I'm not sure about the theme consistency. 16:39:36 and I still don't have any major plans of my own... not sure how much time I'll have this version cycle, but I'll poke at little things at least, like dracs :) 16:39:52 galehar: they don't move easily... they'd still move slowly in water like they currently do 16:40:16 being iron make them stable maybe 16:40:17 they just would be solidly enough placed in the water that they'd be able to attack without trouble 16:40:48 and they don't have to worry about drowning, so that should make them more comfortable 16:40:48 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:57 yeah, that sounds good enough 16:42:30 elliptic: for a big project, there's a melee reform. Being long-term, it can adapt to the availability of its contributors (starting with me who will eventually get around to starting it :) 16:42:38 but not tonight... 16:42:40 * galehar sleep 16:42:58 galehar: yeah, I'll probably be interested in helping with that at some point :) 16:53:37 is there any reason why i'm not getting stack traces, does it just not work on windows? 16:57:11 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:26 it doesn't work on windows afaik 17:05:49 hmm, this is extremely difficult to figure out 17:11:07 mumra: compile on linux :) 17:11:46 I can give you a login to my server if you don't have a linux box available 17:17:31 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:28 might be a good idea 17:21:39 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:21:40 trying a fulldebug compile first to see if that gives any clues 17:32:08 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: Stay sane inside insanity!] 17:34:50 nope, it tells me nothing! 17:35:22 -!- rax is now known as raxvulpine 17:35:27 -!- raxvulpine is now known as rax_ 17:35:49 -!- rax_ is now known as rax 17:39:01 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:52 -!- \amethyst is now known as |amethyst 18:02:03 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 18:20:34 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:47 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:44 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:50 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:54:36 -!- Vandal has quit [] 19:01:29 -!- lord-naughty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:47 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:55 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:54 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:05:50 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 19:09:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:31 qtip the Digger (L7 OpEE) (D:5) 19:16:43 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:24 Zorella the Poker (L6 MiGl) (D:4) 19:29:56 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:38:18 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:21 -!- Twinge_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:08 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56:07 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:05 -!- Ganrao| has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:42 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:06:05 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:43:53 -!- dtsund_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:44:20 -!- dtsund_ is now known as dtsund 20:57:07 -!- qqryq has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:04:07 -!- hangedman|away is now known as HangedMan 21:17:48 -!- HousePet has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:42 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:27 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 21:36:57 kraken (06X) | Speed: 14 | HD: 16 | Health: 180-232 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Damage: 50 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 3227 | Sp: spawn tentacles, ink cloud. 21:36:57 %??Kraken 21:38:56 KAAARKEN 21:39:17 krakens, some of the best things 21:50:24 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:03 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 22:00:49 how do I look up the tentacles 22:01:06 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:27 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:08 tentacle (16w) | Speed: 17 | HD: 12 | Health: 39-57 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 29 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 12drown | XP: 0. 22:02:08 <|amethyst> %??tentacle 22:02:11 tentacle segment (16*) | Speed: 18 | HD: 12 | Health: 39-57 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 12drown | XP: 0. 22:02:11 <|amethyst> %??tentacle segment 22:09:17 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:23 -!- Roque is now known as Wensley 22:38:22 -!- tholmes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:54 -!- tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:56 -!- tholmes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:47 -!- tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:47 -!- tholmes has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:39 -!- tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:30 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:28 -!- _tholmes has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:12 -!- Blade- has quit [] 23:06:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 23:58:47 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference]