00:00:30 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:19 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:39 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:13:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:16 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:51 -!- st_ has quit [] 00:51:22 -!- rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:29 -!- rejuxst has left ##crawl-dev 01:20:21 Autoexplore does not move to the edge of exclusions anymore (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5500) by Geodew 01:53:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 02:05:47 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:34 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:26 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:15:49 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:30:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:31:10 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:06 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:31 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 03:13:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:02 -!- Heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:32:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:51:50 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:52 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:35 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:19:14 Code for tiles is crazy. 04:34:13 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:46 -!- Chousuke has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:57 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:53:00 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-769-gf8af3c2 05:14:27 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:53 -!- qqryq has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:33:45 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:34:15 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:40:02 -!- StormCinder has quit [] 05:48:57 !tell kilobyte what do you think of using https://www.transifex.net to handle the translation workflow? 05:48:58 galehar: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 05:54:04 never used that... I was thinking about using poedit and related tools even though it looks like I won't use gettext inside Crawl proper 05:54:57 not sure how that site can handle complex translations (ie, something more than just message->message) 06:03:19 I think the point of it is to handle submission of translated text, reviews,... 06:03:31 the workflow of the translators 06:03:44 but haven't had a close look yet 06:06:17 -!- ghallberg is now known as lol 06:06:57 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:18 -!- lol has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:10:05 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:01 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:44 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:23:47 galehar: how much xp do you think a typical player can get during a Sage duration (currently 200 + random2(1800) turns)? 06:24:26 obviously, it'd be a fraction of xp for level 06:32:31 Partial xp is given from ally kills according to how much you damaged the monster; could this be done for e.g. clouds, traps etc as well? 06:33:40 that's already the case 06:33:40 ah, great! :) 06:33:40 clouds are blamed on whoever dealt them, traps give XP to no one in normal games, 50% to you in ZotDef 06:33:40 he who smelt it dealt it 06:33:41 Ah, I was thinking of a scenario that you make a yak flee by damaging it enough, then it runs into blade trap. I take you get no xp? 06:34:11 you get a dead yak, though 06:34:34 Also, what I just had: yaktaur captain stepped on a pressure plate trap (that I skillfully avoided and led him to walk on it), then I pummeled it with sling bullets but it ultimately died to the cloud. No xp to me, right? 06:34:43 dpeg: Of course, it's no biggie. 06:35:03 (assuming the yak had 100 hp): if you hit it for 80 damage, it healed 20 then the blade trap took all it had (40), you get 2/3 xp 06:35:17 Okay, that's awesome! :) 06:35:23 That's fair. 06:36:34 hmm, cooked yak with yak milk 06:36:50 <|amethyst> sound treyf 06:36:59 <|amethyst> s/sound/sounds/ 06:38:10 that's not a problem for my religious chieftain 06:40:43 bhaak: Hi! You'll get an email reply at some point =) 06:41:00 i was once at a tibetan restaurant and after i've asked for a 3rd cup of yak butter tea, they told me that i've been the first european to do so. i wonder why, it's delicious! 06:41:00 Nice, trove asking for my wand of hasting, with additional charges too. Harsh but tempting! 06:41:28 dpeg: eagerly awaiting the 1 MB of e-mail. :-) 06:42:16 people, a word of advice, never start a e-mail correspondence with any foo-peg unless your mail server is large enough to hold their responses :) 06:42:52 * dpeg digs deep into his spam bag. 06:42:56 Hey, let's cut V:1-7, and if we get some of those ideas for Vaults layout etc implemented, but in Lair/Vaults roulette. 06:43:15 Keskitalo: tell us what the trove gave you! 06:43:21 Not going. :P 06:43:21 Keskitalo: it's a scam, I got flecked for a wand of healing, and got a scroll of detect curse, an useless staff, a tome of destruction and a stack of stones 06:43:38 Would need ?recharging first anyway 06:43:49 Troves wouldn't work if they wouldn't be duds at times... 06:44:13 Whether the ratio of useful/medium/useless trove output it good, I cannot assess. 06:44:31 Yeah, losing the wand matters, it's an interesting trade. 06:47:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:03 dpeg: :D I got A with honours on my piano exam! :D 06:49:31 dpeg: i was surprised about the numbers _when_ people started playing crawl. you didn't get most of the players with linley's version but with later ones (IIRC most around 0.4) 06:49:35 * dpeg sends due Toccata / Fugue. 06:49:49 due: congrats! 06:49:56 Vaults is too boring to keep playing for now. :P 06:50:00 bhaak: a distinct difference to Nethack, you mean? :) 06:50:01 Keskitalo: :D Thanks!~ 06:50:05 due: so, is it time to add sdl_sound already? 06:50:08 Most of the game has been pretty interesting though! 06:50:28 There is this old Vault proposal rotting away on the wiki. 06:50:41 due: for long you've been playing the piano? 06:50:48 Short blade KoBe, both berserking and stabbing. Probably the two most interesting things for melee. 06:51:07 dpeg: V:1-7 dropped would also be a nice move to cut the fat from the middle game. 06:51:12 dpeg: not comparable as such :-) but an interesting result of my poll was that there were still a lot people coming to nethack in the recent years. 06:51:17 Keskitalo: I've been doing KoAs of Trog instead :) 06:51:29 ghallberg: Sounds nice, do you use needles too? 06:51:40 Keskitalo: I am obsessively playing Brogue these weekends. Will write a review/report geared towards Crawlers once I win. That game has some good ideas for making melee interesting. 06:51:48 dpeg: That sounds great! 06:52:03 I should play Brogue too. And more DoomRL is on my list as well. 06:52:14 Keskitalo: Early poison is good, and curare is awesome for ogres etc 06:52:25 But this is ##crawl stuff :) 06:52:26 bhaak: I think the survey shows that Crawl didn't reach the peak yet -- so many new players from very recent versions. 06:52:33 dpeg: but one number that can be compared was that for nethack players 50% didn't win yet whereas 67% in crawl. otoh the "how far did you get into the game if you never won" was much more evenly distributed for dcss than nethack (no surprise) 06:52:40 hypermagistern (L24 OgEn) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 434 failed. (Shoals:2) 06:52:59 dpeg: Send jpeg regards for the awesome survey email! 06:53:14 bhaak: I see... Nethack is even more discontinuous than Crawl, due to wishing and ascension kit? 06:53:33 dpeg: with the fresh discovery of "roguelike" from the indie developers, there will be coming more heaps of new players 06:53:35 Keskitalo: I did, I did. Bet she'd be happy if there was some reply by people not in her family. :) 06:53:49 bhaak: hm, fresh blood! 06:54:14 dpeg: wishing and ascension kit is not even the real problem. after the castle, you're mostly set if you have one or two essential ingredients, everything else can easily be found in gehe 06:54:42 ah, I see ... the "game without a game" portion is so long in Nethack 06:54:50 ghallberg: Having a nice soak? :D 06:55:03 dpeg: what peak? I hope we'll keep growinf forever! :) 06:55:08 *growing 06:55:14 due: ? 06:55:27 koas - soak 06:55:29 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rd9a874c17c81 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc: Fix an uninitialized variable or two. 06:55:43 bhaak: A radical idea would be to cut everything between castle and amulet. 06:56:21 galehar: but Crawl's growth is still growing... it won't go on like this forever :) 06:57:10 kilobyte: no idea about sage. Why the question? 06:57:39 wait, so bhaak is soaking in blood? Sounds interesting. 06:57:44 <|amethyst> I played nethack for over a decade and never won... got my first DCSS win within two months of starting to play 06:58:07 too bad Elizabeth Bathory never got to publish her research, now we don't know whether it's best to bathe in it or drink it 06:58:11 I still haven't won DCSS 06:58:26 galehar: I'm making it so you cannot wait out or re-roll a bad sage 06:58:31 kilobyte: If we aquire enough, we can do both. 07:00:31 galehar: I need some formula for how long Sage should last 07:00:35 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:01:07 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:01:27 so it would work for a fixed amount of XP or skill points, like manuals? 07:01:55 ghallberg: i am an anagram obsessed person 07:03:42 galehar: yeah 07:03:58 galehar: just need that "fixed amount" 07:04:30 <|amethyst> dpeg: so, in dpeg_entry_caged_fury, is is supposed to be important that jellies can eat their way out of the cage? 07:05:08 I guess, X * xp_for_level would be good, where X is random_range(A, B), A and B being constants 07:05:19 |amethyst: _entry_ 07:05:48 |amethyst: not important, but I think it is absolutely okay 07:06:48 |amethyst: there are some precautions: the hatches; jellies are never placed near the door (if at all); you can see them right away. 07:07:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:00 kilobyte: so it would be a fraction of XL. Maybe 0.2-0.3? (this is ass pulled) 07:08:07 <|amethyst> hm 07:09:23 if it's xp_for_level wouldn't that mean it's much better to pull it right before you level than right after 07:09:42 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:13 dpeg: cutting everything between castle/medusa and sanctum would be a bit radical, although i've been meaning to streamline gehe further. but it's always been only small steps so far 07:11:22 Eronarn: hmm, good point. Not sure how to deal with that, though. Ashenzari, potions of experience (for xp, not skills), etc, work this way too. 07:12:04 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:53 MarvinPA_: how long should a Sage card last? 07:13:24 kilobyte: you could use a function based on total XP gained so far 07:14:07 would really penalize later-game players though 07:14:38 perhaps min(function(your xp), function(xp_to_hit_27)) 07:16:03 pushed a version in case someone wants to play with it 07:16:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:04 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:16:12 03kilobyte * re176a440239a 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Fix an infinite loop in fsim for races with no body armour. 07:16:12 03kilobyte * r13f3e7316f51 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files): Make it impossible to wait out or re-roll Sage cards you don't want. 07:16:12 03kilobyte * r285bb620797d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc player.cc): Fix round-off errors when under Sage. 07:16:47 an earlier ass pull, slightly different from galehar's (0.1-0.35)*xp_for_xl 07:18:24 kilobyte: for it to be independent of exp_progress, replace xp_for_xl by exp_progress * xp_for_xl + (1-exp_progress) * xp_for_xl+1 07:19:01 Eronarn: that would just mean that around level 22 (Fermi's approximation), you start getting less, then nothing at all at XL27 even though you still keep training skills normally otherwise 07:20:27 nothing at all? huh? 07:20:41 14:14 < Eronarn> perhaps min(function(your xp), function(xp_to_hit_27)) 07:21:07 unless by xp_to_hit_27 you mean something else 07:22:34 <|amethyst> re 5494, I assume it is a bug that !cure mut removes the beastly appendage mutation? what about zin's ability? 07:23:45 kilobyte: the idea would be that it scales to be like 'x% of level' (but without breakpoints), but then stops rather than increasing past 27, so that panscummers don't end up saged for ages 07:24:05 |amethyst: they could both end the spell, perhaps? 07:24:11 |amethyst: yeah, an obvious bug 07:24:52 Eronarn: that's how Ashenzari works, and now sage as well 07:29:41 ah, good :) 07:30:23 galehar: did you get my email with the pastebin i'd pasted here? i don't know where you plan on putting this stuff together 07:34:16 03kilobyte * re962166bb389 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-tornado.cc: Use a helper function for a bit of readability. 07:34:28 03kilobyte * r450f5f48e9c7 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Don't let most ways to delete a mutation mess with Appendage. 07:35:57 <|amethyst> kilobyte: you also need to check for mutat != 0 07:35:59 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:35 <|amethyst> kilobyte: otherwise unappendaged people will not be able to lose MUT_ANTENNAE == 0 07:37:19 <|amethyst> or, ATTR_APPENDAGE should be NUM_MUTATIONS or -1 if the player is unappendaged 07:38:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:34 |amethyst: hrm, you're right. It'd be ugly to special-case clean-up of you.attribute[], though. 07:40:44 Keskitalo: thank you! 07:41:16 Eronarn: I'd some point, I'll put the 0.11 planning on the dev wiki 07:41:31 /I'd/At/ 07:41:41 Keskitalo: I am also happy to see that serial vaults explore not-just-flavour territory now. 07:42:14 kilobyte: appart from portal_branch and translation, anything significant on your todo? 07:42:17 Yeah, I hope to see the magic research serial vaults in a game some day :) 07:42:28 I hoped for something like that when I suggested serial vaults, but I thought it'd be best to start with flavour-only stuff. 07:43:47 Turns out it works well. 07:44:59 Yes, I figured that Crawl's level are so big that some bracket (thematic, threat) could be interesting at times. 07:45:16 galehar: nothing big. I doubt the hellspider has much point, could try it for the Abyss anyway. Shotgun/cone spells would be nice. There's a crapload of optimizations on my to-do list. Dwarf? 07:45:29 cone spells <3 07:45:53 kilobyte: I have the HS wiki page open... does this mean that going for it is pointless? 07:45:54 although I guess evilmike could do a much better job with Dwarf, he's too over dpeg's vault duties 07:46:13 kilobyte: What do you think of making Dwarf a non-timed guaranteed portal vault? My reasoning is that one-visit-only would work well with non-healing monsters. 07:46:14 s/he's too/he took/ 07:46:29 There's perhaps an issue about loot, dragging it out of the portal vault. 07:47:16 yeah, and I quite fail to see the benefits of going off-level vs teleporting 07:47:39 I think the idea of using portal vaults for the "only one attempt" could be used more often. 07:47:43 Adding dwarf AND spider seems optimistic to me. evilmike sent me his todo and it's not on it. 07:47:47 Keskitalo: that just means you can have a ton of loot, which players can't bring most of :D 07:47:56 maybe as a portal vault 07:47:58 Could make the level small enough, so that teleporting doesn't help too much. 07:48:18 evilmike wants to do an early game demonic portal vault, this is great idea 07:48:28 small, soundproof walls, high dwarf density inside rooms - teleporting can land you in a full room and get you killed 07:48:29 there's a crapload of vaults for Dwarf already, they just don't play well with our current builder 07:49:09 dpeg: Pan is also "only one attempt" per level, which is quite nice 07:49:21 I think we should focus our efforts on spider and postpone dwarf 07:49:22 (hence why I suggested deep dwarves for my "Other Realms" idea) 07:49:55 I really like the idea of HS guarding the Abyssal rune. 07:50:19 Being in Abyss would make it transdimensional indeed. :) 07:51:58 so this means no boss fight for Spider? 07:53:44 dpeg: the current contention is how the hellspider should show up, and whether killing it once it shows up should be mandatory for further progress 07:54:16 pretty pointless to do work on hellspider until that is settled 07:56:44 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:55 no other random Lair branch has a boss either 07:58:14 Ilsuiw has no ties to the rune and is likely to spawn on another level, Arachne has no ties to Spider:5 at all, the Lernaean Hydra is closest as it's in the same vault but you can still just walk around it 07:58:57 ilsuiw can spawn elsewhere? is that true 07:59:03 and Snake has no native uniques at all (Aizul being a random spawn with the same chance as anywhere else) 07:59:09 i've never seen her anywhere but shoals 5 07:59:32 not that it matters, i agree that spider doesn't need a boss 07:59:40 she can do, but always shows up on 5 if she didn't generate already 08:00:00 PS, i mentioned it before, but TOME has a thing where if you revisit old branches later in the game they have new optional uberboss content 08:00:39 we could do something like this - after you get the orb, you can *return* the runes, rather than leaving the dungeon with them :D 08:00:45 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:34 ie, only then would the stairs be blocked with webs? 08:01:43 people have wanted something past extended endgame for a while, and it'd be a good way to add some really crazy fights without harming normal gameplay at all 08:01:56 since it'd be no loot, just kill some bosses for show 08:01:56 quite hard to think of a decent reward when already on the orb run though 08:02:08 log entries for uniques :) 08:02:39 There was a banner like this. 08:02:40 stuff like... The Eye of Jiyva (a unique G, the last vestige of its power) 08:03:58 for spider, it'd be the hellspider, of course; shoals could be a unique kraken 08:06:32 proposal for overall balance, length reduction,... 08:06:33 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:layout 08:08:04 galehar: Good page, thank you! 08:08:34 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:03 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:47 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:29 any idea where to mark morgues as tiles/console? 08:16:08 there is no data anywhere, at least unless you cross-check with Sequell (whose raw data is not publically available AFAIK). 08:16:46 kilobyte: does tiles make a ttyrec too? 08:16:47 during this tournament, there were no builds with the same version, so this can be used to tell them apart 08:16:56 galehar: it's a good page but I am not convinced that the carrot will do the trick. Hopefully I'm wrong! 08:16:57 yeah 08:17:32 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17:35 hm... it seems like a thing worth adding to the morgue (say, last line, so you can tail -n 1 it) 08:18:08 I would have they at the very top, next to the version number 08:18:24 dpeg: I've already cut elf to 3 levels (not in master due to technical reasons), let's see if this will make me hates a big enough fraction of your MD hate :p 08:18:25 oh, is version already there? oops 08:18:31 (and galehar if he does further cuts) 08:18:47 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.11-a0-681-g24a74e8 character file. 08:19:25 kilobyte: here's a radical idea: have each level of vaults have an entrance to another branch/portal 08:19:37 kilobyte: as I've said on the wiki, I'd rather cut elf to 4, but with a steeper progression 08:19:45 with a space, and "Crawl" being "Sprint", "Run", etc 08:19:49 so you find more high level elves in 3 and 4 08:19:50 kilobyte: continuous cuts (like yours) will cause much less screaming that a drastic cut (like MD). 08:20:30 galehar: I'd rather have a Dwarf level, even half-done 08:20:36 anyway, cutting levels is really good and should be continued, slice by slice 08:20:52 you could have elf and dwarf and blade all be one-level portal vaults off of Vaults 08:21:15 with crypt entrance there too, that's getting close to being able to have one per level of vaults 08:21:19 kilobyte: why? The problem with Elf (and lair branches and cryt) is that levels 1-4 are identical. There's no sense of progression 08:21:54 galehar: crypt is a real shame because it's so obvious how to have progression: older undead the deeper you go 08:22:10 galehar: yeah, and there is so little material to get that progression 08:22:10 juvenile lich 08:22:13 adolescent lich 08:22:19 titanic lich 08:22:39 Elf:5 has some great monsters. Why archers and blade masters spawn so rarely on 1-4? 08:23:15 i actually kind of like that they only show up on 5 08:23:21 right now Elf:4 has more bigger elves than Elf:1, but not by enough for people to notice. And by having blamemasters/DEMAs it'd make the end vault less special. 08:23:28 1-(n-1) feeling different is good 08:23:32 it's just that it's too long 08:23:47 galehar: a simple approach would be have the class of monsters, and use fractions of that throughout the branch: level 1 gets 5% from the class, level 2 gets 15%, etc. 08:24:26 I think the end vault won't be cheappen just because you ran into a few high level elves in 3-4 08:24:31 This would also help with the "do Elf:1 - ($-1), leave, come back much late for $" 08:24:34 and this is true for lair branches too 08:24:34 Eronarn: they have native depth 8, but rarity of 1. Rarity decreases with square of difference between current and native depth: ie, 0 on Elf:7, -16 on Elf:5. 08:24:46 galehar: yes 08:25:18 Eronarn: so you need to get either an OOD with that specific level, or a 8/9 mark in a vault 08:25:26 galehar: btw, spot on for making branch difficulty independent of branch location in D 08:25:42 should have been done long ago, imo 08:26:00 dpeg: yeah, I'd like it better if players were sometimes driven off a branch at depth 3 or 4, instead of systematically cleaning it up to n-1 08:26:29 dpeg: wasn't really doable since absdepth0 rules everything 08:26:55 dpeg: this is only the case for vaults. But the numbers show that it's not insignificant 08:27:15 I reversed that, allowing for places to have arbitrary absdepth0, but portal_branches are yet far from being merged 08:27:21 dpeg: and the fact that the depth of V:1 has an effect on the difficulty of V:8 is really bad 08:27:41 kilobyte: btw, I guess you could fix that easily in the portal_branch, right? 08:27:55 oh good 08:31:10 galehar: yeah, the absdepth0 part is done, allowing that change 08:31:27 there's a frightening amount of work left to do elsewhere though :( 08:32:26 ok, great. I'll put a note on the wiki. Good luck with the rest of the branch, it's worth it! 08:33:14 what exactly do we want to set absdepth0 to? 08:33:32 for Vault? 08:33:56 in general 08:34:14 hrm, still running another build, will check it in a sec 08:42:23 03kilobyte * rff5304ea10f4 10/crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: An ugly fix for antennae being unremovable. 08:42:23 03kilobyte * ra472c3a8adec 10/crawl-ref/source/chardump.cc: Mark the game UI (tiles/webtiles/console) in morgues. 08:42:55 ok, current rules: D: depth-1; connected branches: (you know what); Vestibule: 27; Hells: 27+depth; 08:43:39 Abyss: 52, Pan: 52 08:44:27 and what's wrong with it (appart from V) 08:44:32 Ziggurat: 27+depth in portal_branches, absdepth0+1 of where you entered the Zig from in master 08:45:23 portal vaults: absdepth0+1 of where you entered them in master, average of min and max depth in portal_branches 08:45:38 ironically, I meant to fix the latter :p 08:46:14 avg(min,max) is there for wizmode games, was meant to be replaced by the actual depth the portal generated on 08:46:18 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:28 I guess you want me to leave the current behaviour 08:53:23 avg(min,max) for portal vaults sounds good 08:53:57 and you want that for every other branch too, right? 08:54:25 I think so yeah. Makes sense, right? 08:54:40 I'll have to look at what is the effect of absdepth0 :) 08:59:11 monster difficulty, item quality, number of items and monsters, trap damage, cloud damage, lots of odds and ends in map generation, etc 09:01:25 ok, so yeah, avg(min,max) for portal vaults and branches is good 09:01:58 your change to Zigs is good to, but is it enough? It makes them shallower than Abyss and Pan 09:02:29 but maybe values > 52 are untested and unpredictable? 09:04:47 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:15 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rb1116d438a90 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc place.cc): Make the difficulty of branches independent of where they generated. 09:06:18 03kilobyte 07portal_branches * rf758c806acbc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (branch-data.h place.cc): Remove special-casing of hell absdepth0. 09:13:00 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:09 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:57 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:30 -!- FaMott has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:42 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-776-ga472c3a (32) 09:53:22 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:00:05 turns out heal_other already check for same genus. SO giving it to orc priest is just a matter of editing their spellbook 10:05:39 cool 10:06:31 03galehar * r0f3668d2afd7 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Revert "Fix claw damage to UC not being applied properly (#5460)." 10:06:41 03galehar * rdbf340badc87 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Replace minor healing by heal other for orc priests. 10:06:42 galehar: does that mean allied priests can heal you? 10:07:08 Wensley: no 10:07:21 also, I just pushed that revert by mistake :( 10:08:13 03galehar * r5d4afd7e15a2 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Revert "Revert "Fix claw damage to UC not being applied properly (#5460)."" 10:33:59 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:23 -!- xnavy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:32 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:36 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:27 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:01 -!- lord-naughty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:40 !seen nfogravity 11:34:40 I last saw nfogravity at Tue Mar 27 15:58:33 2012 UTC (36m 7s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 246 seconds. 11:35:14 !tell nfogravity where is your fsim patch? I want to work on fsim, so I'd rather first review what you did. 11:35:14 galehar: OK, I'll let nfogravity know. 11:54:07 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:47 kilobyte: train was going through a tunnel, but - all i care about with elf is making it so it's still feasible to delve there a bit to get a shield, long blade, etc. 12:02:07 however, this could be accomplished (arguably in a better way) if it were a portal vault inside of a vault 12:05:53 -!- lord-naughty has left ##crawl-dev 12:18:32 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:35 rPois ring does not identify when hit by Poison Arrow (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5501) by XuaXua 12:45:01 rpois ring does not identify when * 12:45:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:41 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:08 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:00 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:55 more spider vaults (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5502) by nicolae 13:00:42 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:21:08 -!- gnsh has quit [] 13:28:34 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:27 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:06 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:27 -!- lord-naughty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:11 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:50 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:28 -!- qqryq_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:36 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:04 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:31 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:55 -!- gnsh has quit [] 14:40:51 -!- qqryq_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:50:10 -!- Adeon is now known as Sadeon 14:57:07 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:50 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:09:04 wolf spider (16s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 11 | Health: 53-89 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2508(poison), 15 | Flags: web sense | Res: 06magic(44) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 525. 15:09:04 %?? wolf spider 15:19:39 03kilobyte * r9e696096851a 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: An indentation fix. 15:19:49 03kilobyte * rca4db88c0efc 10/crawl-ref/source/ (cloud.cc misc.cc misc.h ouch.cc): Auto-id jewelry when you explicitely "resist" a beam or cloud. 15:23:48 oh no 15:24:03 that's totally going to be a merge conflict :( 15:24:49 -!- Sadeon is now known as Adeon 15:25:24 you dun goofed 15:26:03 kilobyte dun gooft!! 15:26:17 I am the victim here 15:26:44 stabbed repeatedly with merge error bullets 15:27:52 merge with bullet-time 15:32:15 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:42:04 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:57 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:47:19 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:39 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 15:52:45 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ZChris13 has passed out] 15:57:42 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:04 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10:50 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:30 03kilobyte * rf2d1b03108bd 10/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc: Auto-id unknown vulnerabilities from artefact jewelry as well. 16:52:10 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:15 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:05 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:28 -!- vivec has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:38 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:04:59 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:52 what do the large/small/twisted .des files that are in the entry folder for? the ones that are just named large and simple, not entry_large and entry_simple 17:14:11 -!- vivec has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:15:14 -!- ais523 is now known as callforjudgement 17:17:40 -!- callforjudgement is now known as ais523 17:24:35 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:59 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:56 !seen Wensley 17:35:57 I last saw Wensley at Tue Mar 27 22:04:59 2012 UTC (30m 57s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 246 seconds. 17:37:12 !tell Wensley try to see the good part of it. This suppression project has led you to learn a lot about crawl's code. Now, you're going to learn about git and how to handle merge conflicts! 17:37:13 galehar: OK, I'll let Wensley know. 17:40:01 trapdoor spider (11s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 28-51 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Flags: web sense | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 185. 17:40:01 %??trapdoor spider 17:40:30 on the other hand, it'll pop out anyway 17:51:45 improve portal vault timers (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5503) by galehar 17:53:00 "The short timer triggers when you see any cell of the vault's portal" 17:53:28 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:portal_vaults:portal_vaults#timers 17:55:55 I know, this isn't a new idea 17:56:21 I was worried about "There are vaults which can have a square that is indistinguishable from an ordinary rock wall" 17:56:34 it's a good idea that needs to be implemented, so I've made an implementable 17:56:50 of course, of course 17:57:57 any cell of the *portal*? 17:58:09 isn't the portal only one square? 17:58:21 usually, it's in a vault 17:58:23 -!- vivec has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:33 any square of the vault's portal 17:58:36 i think you worded it wrong 17:58:56 "of the portal's entry vault" or whatever would be a bit clearer, yeah 17:58:59 that's plausible, I'm a bit drunk ;) 17:59:08 the vault should have one portal 17:59:11 which is in one square 17:59:12 does wizmode in .11 show the amount of damage you hit and get hit for? 17:59:27 maybe you meant any square in the vault, yeah 17:59:32 but i thought that was in already 17:59:33 vivec yes 17:59:38 probably not, debug mode does though 17:59:40 why is that not in the default 17:59:46 MarvinPA: I changed it 17:59:49 thats really useful and a lot better than You hit the thing 17:59:50 ah ok 18:00:01 because ambiguity is part of the randomness built into the genre 18:00:25 then again you made d:1 have all gods so I'm not sure if this is worthwhile as an argument 18:00:29 I think any number relevant for gameplay should be available in wizmode 18:00:33 endless number spam is more overwhelming and confusing to new players than useful, yeah 18:00:44 that's kind of dumb when I can look up the exact health, resists, stats and skills of every mob in the game 18:00:51 stuff only in debuggging mode should be about... debugging 18:00:52 you can't look up exact health! 18:00:59 @??cerebov 18:00:59 Cerebov (05&) | Speed: 10 | HD: 21 | Health: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Damage: 60 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d16), iron shot (3d36), haste, greater demon. 18:01:04 aside from uniques 18:01:23 sure, you can look up a ton of stuff, doesn't mean it's useful or worth confusing the player with 18:01:25 crawl is also heavily built on unreliability for a lot of it 18:01:36 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:42 vivec: if you want to have numbers all over you, play in wizmod 18:01:46 what does health mean unless you go bother to calculate every blow anyway 18:01:54 galehar: wasn't wizmode meant to be as close to regular games as possible? 18:02:13 there is something notable about wizmode damage display, in that it doesn't cover brands, just blows 18:02:19 galehar: with debug mode being specifically the one where you see info you can't see normally 18:02:39 ie, I'd remove the damage numbers from wizmode, and add means to selectively reduce spam in debug 18:02:47 wizmode has always shown stuff like detailed spell power, hasn't it? 18:03:06 right now you have to press --more-- several times for every round of combat 18:03:18 but that's just a translation from #s to a number, though 18:03:46 ie, something that can be used by players who would savescum otherwise 18:03:47 oh yeah, I've been meaning to find an answer to this 18:04:04 is there a setting or something in the init that disables the need for you to press Enter if your combat log is getting spammed with shit? 18:04:04 kilobyte: selectively remove spam from debug mode would be good, I agree 18:04:49 vivec: probably but i forget what it's called, check out options_guide.txt 18:05:02 proposal: add a bitmaks for loglevel / category 18:05:02 but I do think any number relevant to gameplay should be available in wizmode. That's what I put damage, and weapon speed in. More could be added. 18:05:10 like DEBUG_NOTICE, DEBUG_WARN, DEBUG_SPELL 18:05:29 If some players like to run numbers, do stats, why prevent them to? Their results can be useful 18:05:32 everything defaults to DEBUG_WARN until we fix them one by one, but then you could have DEBUG_NOTICE & DEBUG_SPELL or something 18:05:42 galehar: what's the point of wizmode then, if it's debug lite? 18:05:54 kilobyte: well, with debug as broken as it is to use... :) 18:07:01 kilobyte: I don't get it. How does having the damage and spell power numbers bad in any way? 18:07:59 galehar: if you approach that wizmode = 'i want to play crawl but be able to summon 50 cerebovs', it'd make sense to hide that stuff 18:08:01 anyway i'd say number spam is more appropriate for debug but whatever, i don't see that it particularly matters either way 18:08:02 wizmode can't then be recommended to people who want to play a normal game but not die 18:08:14 wizmode gives precise numbers but don't spam with debugging informations. That's useful. 18:08:30 ideally debug should do that though 18:08:35 cut the spam from debug unless requested then? 18:09:09 although it's not like we care about usability for people who want to play a normal game but not die, either :P 18:09:42 does anyone have opinions on my suggestion? 18:09:43 blocks the whining about us rejecting "helpful" patches that allow savescumming 18:10:26 -!- vivec has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:27 how about the whining about knowing the damage numbers? 18:10:45 Eronarn: too many places rely on the MSGCH_DIAGNOSTICS, but channels have an additional argument 18:11:03 it could be used right for that, like you suggest 18:11:20 -!- vivec has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:45 My explore delay is set to -1 and the game still shows every turn if I shift G to a different floor 18:11:49 some players like numbers. They want to play spreadsheet crawl. Let them. 18:12:10 vivec: set travel_delat 18:12:15 travel_delay 18:13:22 explore_delay affects only exploration, as its name suggests 18:13:28 anyway, more interesting topic from KoboldLord on the wiki: I'm once again going to call for adding the mid-game dragons to Lair's random spawn list. Fire and ice dragons could spawn real deep, so they're extremely rare above the deepest levels unless you've triggered the OOD spawn timer, but they'd be beefy ranged threats in an environment that otherwise doesn't have much that isn't specifically melee. 18:14:08 !rc lordsloth 18:14:08 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.10/LordSloth.rc 18:15:30 kilobyte: yeah, i was't suggesting doing it via channels, because ideally you could turn on specific combinations 18:15:58 if it can easily be tacked on as an extra arg to the diagnostic channel, it would let us get started quickly 18:16:19 perhaps even regexpable in an hour or so 18:16:30 because dragons aren't in a tier of overuse right below demons 18:17:02 galehar: i'd rather see dragons be in vaults only in lair 18:17:12 though more dragon vaults is good 18:20:41 Eronarn: especially if those settings could auto-save 18:35:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 18:39:00 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:28 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:58 make pearl dragons common 18:50:02 give everyone the pearl dragon armor 18:50:10 kill everybody horribly 18:50:26 literally 18:50:39 make pearl dragons as fast as executioners and also give htem torment 18:53:25 !learn add literally literally make pearl dragons as fast as executioners and also give htem torment 18:53:25 Wensley: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:53:26 literally[8/8]: literally make pearl dragons as fast as executioners and also give htem torment 18:53:38 !messages 18:53:39 (1/1) galehar said (1h 16m 27s ago): try to see the good part of it. This suppression project has led you to learn a lot about crawl's code. Now, you're going to learn about git and how to handle merge conflicts! 18:54:38 ;) 18:54:46 ??pearl dragon armour 18:54:47 pearl dragon armour[1/2]: Magical armour made from the scales of a pearl dragon. (AC 10, EV -3, rN+, 40aum). All races but felids, draconians, and octopodes can wear this. In 0.9 it resisted curses. 18:55:00 ??pearl dragon armour[2] 18:55:01 pearl dragon armour[2/2]: Everyone will find this but you. 18:56:01 galehar: I only relish this if I learn that git has a tool to automatically resolve all possible conflicts via advanced AI ;_; 18:57:04 Wensley: it doesn't, it's not even the best VCS at conflict resolution 18:57:06 -!- vivec has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:57:17 I've heard something about an octopus 19:00:03 merge made by OpWz 19:01:07 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:01 Wensley: have you ever /seen/ an octopus trying to use a VCS? 19:02:08 it doesn't work well, they tend to get ink all over the keyboard 19:06:47 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:46 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:09 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 19:13:37 -!- lord-naughty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:06 -!- lord-naughty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:42 -!- lord-naughty1 has left ##crawl-dev 19:21:53 Zannick: octopus merges are kind of worthless, at least in Crawl's development style 19:23:15 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:10 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:19 i don't know how octopus merges work anyway 19:27:35 it's merging more than two branches 19:30:25 aha 19:42:24