00:17:41 I think that transmutations are supposed to synergize with unarmed combat, Lichform tends to be an exception because it's more escaping the food clock and changing how mutations effect you rather than being a tool to killdudes with directly. 00:17:53 Which is why most aren't weapon friendly. 00:22:22 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:23 er 00:23:10 did I just cause an error on crawl.develz.org or was it locally? 00:23:49 You broke it. :| 00:23:54 Gretell didn't report any errors 00:23:58 ok, lol 00:24:02 thanks ;-) 00:24:03 So possibly you just crashed your crawl? 00:24:05 Try logging in again? 00:24:11 no, it did not crash, it - er 00:24:17 If you can't log in, you possibly did break it -- but unlikely. 00:24:24 Did you resize your window and it just went pfft? 00:24:31 it showed text error messages inside the game, overlapping the game field 00:24:37 Oh 00:24:40 What were the errors? 00:25:01 Your message log should hopefully show them. 00:25:08 Text error messages imply an issue with Lua somewhere along the lines. 00:25:16 So possinly it's already been reported or fixed... 00:25:19 ??br 00:25:20 bug[1/3]: To report bugs, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 00:25:20 irq 7: nobody cared (try booting with the "irqpoll" option) 00:25:23 You could check there :) 00:25:27 ... O_O 00:25:31 lol, I do not even think that it was a crawl error 00:25:36 it's just weird as hell xD 00:25:41 Napkin: <3 00:25:54 I thin khe's sleeping 00:25:57 kilobyte, ping? 00:26:08 Actually, he's probably sleeping too 00:26:27 the end of the error is "Disabling IRQ #17" 00:26:31 Ah 00:26:31 lol 00:26:43 Let me log in 00:26:51 hmm? 00:27:40 Oh, I don't have access to those logs 00:27:55 I assume I should not move now - I did and it worked, but it made a part of the message unreadable. Moving any more could remove it O.O 00:28:03 What OS are you running? 00:28:12 Linux, Kubuntu 11.10 00:28:16 Hm 00:28:22 on a Ctrl+F4 terminal/console 00:28:27 Ctrl+Alt* 00:28:27 Check your dmesg or /var/log/syslog? 00:28:35 k - wait 00:28:47 'cos the implication is that it's actually a message on your machine 00:28:57 Running on a virtual terminal probably increases that likelihood. 00:29:15 Potentially your USB has died also 00:29:22 If https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=205672 is anything to do with it 00:29:35 Back in a bit 00:30:31 hey great, found it in the syslog 00:30:38 pasting now 00:31:35 http://pastebin.com/87ZWeYAd 00:33:24 seems to be that bugzilla thing, so 00:33:30 I will wait for the new kernel xD 00:33:55 but that also means that I can play again now because actually nothing in Crawl seems to be crashed/down/broken 00:33:58 thakns 00:34:12 thanks* lol 00:34:26 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:53 ??stonemail 00:44:53 stonemail[1/1]: Like stoneskin, but removed. 00:45:27 FaMott: There are species that have good Tm apts but use weapons instead of UC 00:46:00 And you can take a path through stalker to train Tm without using the UC forms of the Transmuter. 00:46:38 It might be interesting to see transformations that keep the weapon, perhaps even brand it. 00:47:33 statue form already boosts weapon damage and allows you to use weapons instead of uc... so that's like an armed golem. 00:47:34 A Merge Weapon spell? 00:47:37 hm, maybe a TM that uses potions and weapons? 00:47:42 Perhaps demon form. 00:48:00 Or, in line with stalkers, shade form. 00:48:00 Enlarge? 00:48:22 increases stealth and stabbing. perhaps adds a brand like poison. 00:48:24 Dude it'd be awesome if there was a spell that would let you use a potion and a weapon, and would let you temporarly take on a breath and damage boost 00:48:48 * gomer nods. 00:49:04 like "potion of confusion + shortblade = meph breath and claws" 00:49:10 I don't think transmutations need to be aimed at UC only. Especially since stalker is a transmutations class. 00:49:14 true 00:49:56 maybe a transmuter should be able to draw blood from enemies vampire style. 00:50:01 I always love shapeshifting in any game. And I think it'd be awesome to expand it in DCSS 00:50:22 Shade form, increases stealth, stabbing, adds vampiric brand to weapons 00:50:33 More shapeshifting! 00:50:35 Can extend the duration of the fomr by drinking blood 00:50:39 Felid form 8D 00:50:57 HousePet: absolutely. 00:50:59 Beastly Appendage is a great additon 00:51:07 Shapeshift ALL the things! 00:51:09 you know what would be interesting? 00:51:19 Doppelganger? 00:51:20 if there was a way to change your form using the chunks of an enemy 00:51:36 like, if you kill a hydra and weild the chunks then cast a spell, you get hydra form 00:51:38 * gomer gets a warm fuzzy feeling inside 00:51:47 A Tm version of simulacrum. 00:51:51 yeah really. 00:52:02 Sounds sweet 00:52:04 would go awesome with kiku 00:52:17 the problem with that is "what would be the changes for each monster?" 00:52:24 "Gimme bodies!" pick out the one you want and wade into combat. 00:52:30 troo 00:52:36 would your 'power' be equal to the monster's plus your HD? 00:52:50 would it be power based? (square root of the power * 2 = your HD or something similar?) 00:53:07 it could be instead of transforming you into the specific monster, it would give you the proto monster from the class. 00:53:31 Instead of a draconian you get a proto draconian 00:53:41 that'd reduce the amount of work 00:53:42 the "uncoloured" draconian 00:53:45 right 00:53:49 Same with dragons 00:53:53 it could be based off of flags 00:53:54 you get dragon, not gold dragon 00:53:58 exactly 00:54:07 actually with dragons they've already got it set up for draconian colours in dragon form 00:54:15 troo 00:54:28 anyhow, I just wanted to plant the seed of the idea of more forms. 00:54:31 this sort of spell would have to be decently high level 00:54:35 like, 5 or 6 00:54:39 branch out from just boosting UC 00:55:22 I got bored with dying so I'm writing up a table of current spells. 00:55:43 you know what'd be nice? 00:55:46 With the intention of looking for any gaps to fill 00:55:47 better multi-elemental spells. 00:56:00 Such as that 00:56:05 most of them wind up being 3-schoolers so it's really hard to get any good ones castable. 00:56:43 It seems like earth has the best not-a-ton-of-schools-spells 00:56:50 like LRD is just straight earth 00:57:05 and I just like making up spells... 00:57:06 but since MD was taken out, you don't have much earth apt 00:57:08 gomer, because you have to use parts of the dungeon (i.e stones for sandblast, walls for LRD) instead of making stuff out 00:57:14 when did this channel turn into ##crawl 00:57:17 * gomer nods. 00:57:23 well, HousePet is a contributor now 00:57:31 mikee_: maaybe when I showed up and derailed everything? 00:57:34 how do you become a contributor? 00:57:34 but when coming up with spell ideas, try not to think of it in terms of "gaps to fill" 00:57:55 FaMott: fix a bug, code an implementable, or just submit something cool and get it added 00:58:09 Yeah, look for a gap, then find a cool idea, not just fill the gap 00:58:23 evilmike, I see, I should look at the source for crawl! 00:58:29 and come up with cool ideas 00:58:38 FaMott: not necessarily, you can submit graphics, text, etc 00:58:56 I took out two - signs :) 00:58:59 well my strengths lie in programming and it'd be nice to program, but yes I'll keep that in mind :B 00:59:09 evilmike: where do you submit text? 00:59:30 I gave up coding about 15 years ago... so I'm not going to be able to do much there 00:59:44 Debugging Ray? 00:59:44 gomer: read stuff in /dat/database, find something that needs improvement, and submit it to mantis 00:59:53 ??debugging ray 00:59:53 I don't have a page labeled debugging_ray in my learndb. 00:59:55 ok. 00:59:57 also, if anything lacks a description, quote, etc, feel free to submit something 00:59:58 Aww 01:00:08 HousePet: debugging ray is a debugging spell :P 01:00:11 it does huge damage 01:00:24 ??/dat/database 01:00:25 I don't have a page labeled datdatabase in my learndb. 01:00:39 datas 01:01:19 actually not all of it is in database, there's a lot of text in dat/descript 01:01:37 also if you know a language that isn't English, there's a call translations (see the Tavern) 01:03:34 HousePet: btw, when it comes to gaps, the main one I can think of is high level poison 01:03:37 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-650-gc9ec6dd (32) 01:04:00 Yeah I've seen the discussion 01:04:40 the problem with poison is that it's effectiveness falls off later on 01:04:42 Would holy water be acceptable as a poison for using on demons and/or undead? 01:04:46 high level charms and tloc are also fairly sparse, but since these are "utility" schools, it's probably ok (armour users need more skill to cast spells well) 01:04:55 HousePet: that doesn't sound very poisony to me 01:05:04 It is to demons though 01:05:11 you know 01:05:27 are we keeping curare as an emergency item? 01:05:42 if not we could always make it a high level charms/poison spell to brand a weapon with it 01:06:14 Is curare effective late game? 01:06:25 yeah but its not quite what it used to be 01:06:51 poison doesnt really go bad until the extended endgame. Even in zot, you can poison lots of stuff 01:07:55 Its pretty bad early game when you only have poison and have to run away from oozes/demons/undead 01:08:05 poison is extremely good early game 01:08:44 yah but don't most early venom mages branch out into conjurations or something of that sort? 01:08:48 it's maybe not as straightforward as something like fire or earth, but it's good. demons and undead aren't really an issue. Ice beasts can be hard for venom mages though, but this is fine 01:10:26 maybe some schools aren't really meant to be taken through to the extended endgame though 01:10:54 hexes seems to be one of those because of MR and eventual immunity 01:11:12 Seems a bit unfair 01:11:28 how so? 01:11:40 hexes is lacking, there are lots of ideas for it though 01:11:55 Having some of the schools having to sit out of the extended endgame 01:12:08 I don't see why that's unfair. 01:12:20 none of this stuff is "unfair" though, and you'll have a hard time convincing anyone here of that. Single-minded character builds will generally be lacking 01:12:34 if they aren't, it's a sign that something is badly overpowered (eg summoning) 01:12:41 lol 01:12:59 Just like any other game, some skills do well earlier on, some do better later on, and some are 'average' througout the game 01:14:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 01:15:51 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:02 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:52 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-650-gc9ec6dd 01:27:17 ??drain life 01:27:44 I don't have a page labeled drain_life in my learndb. 01:27:53 Thought not 01:29:01 feel free to add entries (works either here or ##crawl, although it's a good idea to use ##crawl for this) 01:32:31 Not sure if it is a player spell or not :/ 01:32:47 ?? bolt of inaccuracy 01:32:48 bolt of inaccuracy[1/2]: Deals good damage at Evocations level 10 - 15. You can line up several nasty monsters and blast them down all at once (irresistable damage!). Mid-game it's great against sleeping foes since you can repeat cast without it waking them up, until it hits them of course (and this will usually severely damage them). 01:33:07 ?? bolt of inaccuracy[2] 01:33:08 bolt of inaccuracy[2/2]: Good vs. hydras, stone giants, large zombies, curse skulls, skeletal dragons, fiends(!), statues, most jellies and golden dragon armour-wearing ghosts. Not good vs. anything with noticeable evasion. 01:33:14 lol 01:35:29 Ice spells n ot very spread 01:37:13 HousePet, what do you mean? 01:37:30 What does the red name mean? 01:37:47 Where? 01:38:24 Just then your name was red 01:38:33 drain life is a yred ability 01:38:51 I uh, highlighted you. 01:38:56 Oh 01:39:10 Do I get a magic resistance check? 01:39:35 No :3 01:39:47 I really want to screw around with modifying handedness 01:40:07 Like I said in the main chat, I want to make it based both on a factor of size and strength rather than just sizer 01:40:10 Ice has 4 level 4 spells, no level 5 spells. 01:40:17 don't worry about that :P 01:40:33 evilmike, what do you mean? 01:40:33 Then 5 at level 6, and then none until icestorm at level 9 01:40:48 HousePet, that's not exactly a bad thing 01:40:50 ice has a good progression from level 1 to level 9. spell skill has a big effect on spellpower, so your low level spells continue improving 01:40:52 Level 6 is the place to be 01:41:13 spells get changed in level for balance reasons. and yeah, 6 is a bit crowded. it just turns out that a lot of ice spells work at that level 01:42:00 spell level really determines how well skills and int scale towards it's success rate only, not power or anything else right? 01:42:15 (and possibly power caps) 01:42:44 spell level is all about success rate, mp cost, hunger cost, and how many levels it takes to memorize 01:42:55 right 01:43:11 its possible to define a level 1 spell that scales all the way to 200 power, and does 5000 damage 01:43:19 So basically spell level is how much you have to commit to learn and use the spell 01:43:27 it's the counterbalance to the spell's strength really 01:43:34 So Debugging Touch? 01:43:53 number of schools is also a factor 01:44:27 right 01:44:40 though high level tri-school spells are a pain in the ass 01:44:46 Bolt of magma for example. 01:45:06 well , 5 isn't really high level, but it's not very good 01:45:16 i think of high level as 7-8-9 01:45:23 yeah that makes sense 01:45:33 it'd be interesting of BoM was lowere to level 4 01:45:38 *lowered 01:45:44 No high level poison :( 01:47:15 Eh, I don't really see that as a problem, I don't think Poison magic is a school you take to 27 01:47:31 ooh ooh 01:47:34 I had an idea 01:47:40 high level cloud spell, miasma cloud 01:47:41 Only 1 high level ice and hex 01:47:46 Poison/Necromancy 01:48:03 3x3 cloud like meph, but it hurts like a bitch because well, miasma. 01:48:11 Already got two poison cloud spells though 01:48:39 well mephitic is a confusion spell, poison cloud is the true "cloud" spell 01:48:40 that high level ice spell is a big deal 01:48:53 people train ice magic to 27 for it. it tends to work well 01:49:04 Yeah saying "well there's only ONE ice storm" is kinda like saying there's only one tornado 01:49:08 TIL: Megabats are a thing irl. 01:49:22 microbats too :P 01:49:26 megabats are cuter though 01:49:27 Yeah. 01:49:44 knooo 01:49:51 Microbats have these awesome ears. 01:49:56 I'e been thinking that poison needs an elemental/construct/avatar 01:50:09 Poison Elemental? 01:50:12 Poison is *kind of* like an elemetal school 01:50:19 but it doesn't have a summon associted with it 01:50:31 Spider Swarm? 01:50:37 Its fot scorpions 01:50:46 I think it would be great to have one. You can make it out of a square of poison cloud or meph cloud 01:50:55 scorpions isn't comparable to elementals 01:51:00 imho 01:51:01 Doesn't have a shapeshift either 01:51:08 Oh wait, I fail 01:51:14 spider form 01:51:47 I think a lvl 6 poison avatar would be good. 01:51:48 Fire lacks a Tmut form 01:51:58 Dragon 01:52:05 ohright 01:52:09 heh. we're forgetful today, eh? 01:52:14 Air really doesn't have one 01:52:30 Air form! *downs* 01:52:39 Grants the ability to walk through grates :D 01:52:59 Storm Avatar. 01:53:10 a walking disc of storms! 01:53:21 you automatically pop off static discharges when stuck 01:53:35 and have the ability to do a lightning breath attack 01:53:35 oh god 01:53:41 ??black draconian[2] 01:53:42 black draconian[2/2]: Its like a disc of storms, with less killing yourself. 01:53:57 * gomer smirks. 01:54:22 Fire is all very direct damage 01:54:33 But I'd love to see poison get more high level stuff. 01:54:44 That school peters out after parrow and pcloud 01:54:48 You know what'd be interesting? 01:54:50 which aren't super high level 01:55:04 ? 01:55:25 you know how summon elemental lets you use a material to 'summon' from it? like air elementals and earth elementals? 01:55:28 ??summon elemental 01:55:28 summon elemental[1/2]: An elemental's friendliness depends on the elemental magic skill pertinent to its type, with water elementals using ice magic. Very dangerous at low levels if hostile. Friendliness rate is skill level in fire:10, ice:15 (5 for merfolk), air:15, earth:5. Earth: rock wall. Fire: lava, flame cloud. Water: water or fountain. Air: cloudless floor. 01:55:30 I got that right 01:55:41 * gomer nods. 01:55:51 Summon from a poison potion? 01:55:56 that'd be cool yes 01:56:02 I think a square with pcloud or meph 01:56:03 ahh nevermind 01:56:05 or miasma 01:56:10 oh wait nevernevermind 01:56:17 due: innocent, i think :) 01:56:33 I was going to say "A blasting tmut or conj spell that used the stuff around it to hit with" 01:56:43 Curare Cloud? 01:56:44 it'd do more damage than conjurations of it's level 01:56:47 *its 01:57:02 but require material 01:57:18 basically the direct damage version of the summon elemental spell 01:57:18 Curare Cloud could be poison's version of Firestorm and Icestorm 01:57:24 Sounds more of a translocate 01:57:24 Oh goodness 01:57:41 poison is not an element :P 01:57:47 I know 01:57:58 it can be 01:58:16 Arsenic! 01:58:21 Its sitting after the elements :P 01:58:37 but poison has nothing after level 6. 01:58:49 It'd be nice to have a level 8 or 9 spell 01:58:51 I still say it's an early game school 01:58:57 not sure how summon elemental is a summon when the material is already there 01:59:15 HousePet: it summons the energy to animate the material 01:59:19 of course its an early game school, it doesn't work as well late game :P 01:59:45 thus not having level 9 spells for it is a good thing :P 01:59:46 I'm a relative noob.... Should early game stuff suck in late game as a general rule? 01:59:55 Not exactly 02:00:00 Regeneration is a level 3 spell 02:00:02 blink level 2 02:00:07 but those are two of the better spells in the game 02:00:12 troo 02:00:15 Sputterflies is also very good and it's level 1. 02:00:23 loll 02:00:26 some low level spells go obsolete, others don't 02:00:35 there's no rule for this 02:00:58 blink got changed from level 1 -> 2? 02:00:58 It seems fire and ice are still very effective early on... and late game 02:00:58 cool :) 02:00:59 Yeah :B 02:01:06 are there any new cool tloc spells? 02:01:10 cbus: when was the last time you played crawl :P 02:01:13 portasls! 02:01:15 Summon Ice Beasts is awesome. 02:01:16 evilmike, 0.7 02:01:17 maybe 02:01:21 Uh. 02:01:27 I still think poisoning demons with holy water would be fun 02:01:38 with ice you can go from ice beasts early game to icestorm late game 02:01:48 cbus: tloc gets passage of golubria, which creates two portals. It's kind of like a slow, inaccruate controlled blink 02:01:53 it's fun to use too 02:02:00 hehe, might try some dcss tonight then :) 02:02:06 never know! 02:02:13 HousePet: good god ability? Bless? so you can bless water and throw it or evap it at a demon? 02:02:25 also shroud of golubria, which is tloc/charms. It's not as fun though, it's just a defensive buff 02:02:25 evap creates a holy cloud? 02:02:29 although quite useful 02:02:46 That could be fun 02:02:51 and uh.. depending on how long ago you played, phase shift (was forescry) 02:02:59 you know I'd personally change how that works 02:03:02 and dmsl/rmsl too 02:03:07 Napkin: yes, i worked that out :) 02:03:20 :) 02:03:31 Like with shroud I'd make it so that it'd be dmg/dmg + (sqrt(power) + 2) 02:03:32 Even more fun would be drinking an unid potion of holy water as a demonspawn :) 02:03:42 So at higher powers it'd block higher damage attacks 02:03:52 but early on it'd be okay 02:04:10 FaMott: sort of like reading a holy word scroll 02:04:14 no fun at all 02:04:23 err, don't you mean HousePet ? ":P 02:04:26 would holy water be a DoT or direct damage? 02:04:35 yah 02:04:37 my bad 02:04:50 evilmike, I shortly played something that had shroud of something 02:04:54 napkin, sup! 02:05:16 too early to answer that, cbus - still waking up ;) 02:05:24 I think shroud of golubria is the only "shroud" spell crawl has ever had, although I may be forgeting something 02:05:27 DoT could be interesting 02:05:33 sup yourself? 02:05:58 what if holy branded weapons/holy water had an anti-magic effect on demons? 02:06:13 rather than a direct damage increase? 02:06:14 napkin, same here, sipping coffee 02:06:22 dito :D 02:06:22 Getting complimicated 02:06:28 napkin, think its refill time 02:06:33 these coffees are too small :( 02:07:10 and before I forget, how does an acid spell being conj/hex sound? 02:07:24 HousePet, why not make acid spells poison school? :P 02:07:27 since the corrosion is sort of a hex 02:07:29 There's your "higher level poison" 02:07:34 hehe 02:07:43 FaMott: I was just thinking there aren't acid spells 02:07:46 Extremely strong poisons that are so strong they actually corrode instead of poison 02:07:55 bolt of acid, acidic storm? 02:07:57 acid isn't really hex material 02:08:04 oh goodness. 02:08:06 hexes should be debuffs and illusions, for the most part 02:08:18 There is a big sign somewhere stating that acid is not part of poison though 02:08:21 * gomer nods in evilmike's general direction. 02:08:31 acid doesn treally work well for player attacks anyway 02:08:32 acid that causes a bad trip 02:08:34 see yellow draconians 02:08:42 point taken 02:08:51 fedhas does well with oklob spam but its just the damage, not the acid 02:08:53 the corrosion effect tends to work better on players shit because it has long lasting effect 02:09:13 against monsters it's kinda like "You're bleeding ,woohoo :l" 02:09:26 diseases for hexes? 02:09:29 though tweaking acid to cause stuns perhaps? 02:09:44 Debuff ac? 02:10:03 cause rotting? :B 02:10:13 (because you know red chunks are considered HCL for some arcane reason) 02:10:26 true 02:10:39 apparently human blood isn't very filling for a vampire :/ 02:11:19 I still think contaminated chunks are more annoying than anything 02:11:28 though nausea is certainly more dangerous to a caster than sickness 02:11:37 Nausea is teh suck 02:11:40