00:10:35 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  well, I got it rebased against master, but somehow I ended up with the first version (five or so commits) merged into one commit
00:11:38 <|amethyst> but I'm not 100% certain I didn't miss something when resolving conflicts
00:18:38 <HousePet> :/
00:18:45 <HousePet> File Access Denied
00:19:24 <HousePet> Wait a minute... that is a file transfer from my computer!
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00:51:18 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  oh, looks like it was mumra, not me, that merged a bunch of commits together
01:03:01 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  okay, I just pushed branch "boulder_beetles".  The history is linear, though as I mentioned some commits had been merged together in mumra's repo
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01:04:11 <Cheibriados> New branch created: boulder_beetles (9 commits)
01:04:36 <Dixbert> boulder beetles that spawn jellies
01:05:45 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  I might have missed a change or two (resolving across the mon-ench split was a little painful), but it compiles in text mode at least
01:12:03 <|amethyst> MarvinPA:  it still needs a bump to the minor version tag
01:14:38 <|amethyst> !tell MarvinPA just in case you didn't read the scrollback, I rebased and pushed to boulder_beetles in the main repo.  A few commits were fused together in mumra's repo; that's still present.  Also, it will need a minor save version bump.
01:14:38 <Henzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know.
01:17:49 <HousePet> awww what a polite bot
01:18:55 <|amethyst> !tell MarvinPA hm, or maybe it doesn't need the minor bump... it would affect downgrades only
01:18:56 <Henzell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know.
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01:23:07 <|amethyst> hola
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01:58:13 <Henzell> rast the Talismancer (L15 DEFi)  (D)
01:58:24 <Gretell> LogicNinja (L14 KoBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 171: Webtiles message too long! (-1) (Lair:7)
02:06:20 <HousePet> Does the source have anything that works like an index?
02:07:51 <|amethyst> not really
02:09:05 <HousePet> This will be fun :)
02:09:09 <|amethyst> :)
02:09:12 <|amethyst> I've been a dev for 3 months (and working with the Crawl source for about six) and I still couldn't tell you what all the source files do
02:09:26 <|amethyst> it helps to be good with grep :)
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02:15:21 <Cheibriados> dk_yredelemnul_ordeal accepts kill from tgw_kikubaaqudgha (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5462) by Devilish
02:21:19 <Keskitalo> /win 10
02:21:24 <Keskitalo> or lose, I don't know
02:22:46 <Keskitalo> whee, boulder beetles <3
02:23:09 * due gives Keskitalo 10 boulder beetles.
02:42:20 <CIA-62> 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rc93edd971668 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/yredelemnul_ordeal.des: Don't let tgw_kikubaaqudgha and dk_yredelemnul_ordeal interact.
02:42:24 <CIA-62> 03|amethyst * r81818f391699 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/yredelemnul_ordeal.des: Don't let tgw_kikubaaqudgha and dk_yredelemnul_ordeal interact.
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03:51:34 <HousePet> This looks messy :/
03:55:35 <kilobyte> |amethyst, MarvinPA: whatever changes I did to dragon form claw damage predate UCC, so I don't have a clue whether they were carried over or not
03:56:01 <kilobyte> (and I don't have the slightest clue about claws in post-UCC days anymore, too)
04:06:30 <kilobyte> |amethyst: you use distance_iterator and claim that "There still seems to be a bias".  Could you elaborate?  If the "fair" flag is true, it's supposed to be perfectly random.
04:07:31 <kilobyte> (picking a direction at random and then sweeping starting from it, to be exact)
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04:20:26 <HousePet> Solved!
04:21:48 <HousePet> Set the range for Static Discharge to 1-1
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04:27:33 <HousePet> Would Chain Lightning have a similar bug?
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04:30:01 <HousePet> Oh, should put in a flying check too
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04:41:35 <HousePet> Anyone around to tell a n00b what to do?
04:51:04 <kilobyte> hard to point you to any specific area since I don't know what you can do
04:51:31 <kilobyte> there are so many areas that you could help with, but they need different skills
04:54:27 <HousePet> I'm working on the static discharge thing
04:54:44 <HousePet> But I'm unsure about the flying check
04:56:42 <HousePet> Most spells don't abort when they are a waste of time
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05:13:16 <kilobyte> they don't?  If something doesn't, I'd say it's a bug -- all spells either don't allow you to cast at all (Swiftness when wading), refuse unless forced (most) or are "to do".
05:14:08 <HousePet> so flametounge on a crimson imp should abort?
05:14:32 <HousePet> I've only noticed vampiric drain doing that
05:15:04 <ghallberg> Yeah, I know Pain doesn't care what you throw it at.
05:15:20 <kilobyte> is flame tongue 100% resistible?
05:16:01 <kilobyte> beam::is_harmless() returns true for it
05:18:04 <kilobyte> yeah, all beams but BEAM_WATER, BEAM_ICE (icicle, ice storm), BEAM_LAVA (bolt of magma, firestorm), BEAM_POISON_ARROW are 100% resistible
05:19:12 <HousePet> i can't find that spell in the code
05:20:57 <HousePet> Weird
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05:33:12 <HousePet> Okay, even weirder: bolt::is_harmless isn't used anywhere
05:33:50 <HousePet> Wait, i'm silly
05:36:08 <HousePet> it is used, but before the bolt/beam isn't being done
05:40:13 <kilobyte> apparently only in the tracer, to skip asking you whether to attack a friend
05:41:47 <kilobyte> (for using a wand of draining past a friendly zombie, etc)
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05:44:52 <HousePet> and I've just noticed my levitating monsters check can't be bypassed by forcing the cast...
06:00:08 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-616-gd3299fb
06:08:59 <galehar> !messages
06:08:59 <Henzell> (1/1) MarvinPA said (9h 35m 47s ago): shouldn't book mimics reveal themselves when you fail to ignite them? since the player then knows for sure that it's a mimic
06:09:04 <galehar> good point
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07:43:33 <alefury> MarvinPA: you removed crosstraining with m&f from the axes description
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07:50:34 <CIA-62> 03galehar * r9f7d0e17212f 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Trying to ignite a spellbook mimic reveals it.
07:51:31 <alefury> !tell MarvinPA you removed crosstraining with m&f from the axes description
07:51:31 <Henzell> alefury: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know.
07:57:22 <kilobyte> perhaps crosstraining should be added by code instead?
07:57:41 <kilobyte> it doesn't change weekly like cards/decks, but still...
07:59:03 <galehar> kilobyte: good luck translating crosstraining :)
07:59:24 <kilobyte> there's so many skills...
08:00:01 <ghallberg> fr: Remove half of the skills.
08:00:35 <kilobyte> I mean, there's ten or so deck types, each with 20ish cards
08:01:09 <kilobyte> decks have a list of possible cards in their descriptions, cards have a list of decks that can have them
08:01:32 <kilobyte> also, it's incorrect for cards that can be found only in legendary decks
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08:05:05 <alefury> !tell MarvinPA i dont like the earth description: nearly all conjurations can be mitigated with AC, so mentioning this only for earth is misleading. also, earth spells cant be resisted at all, so saying they cant be "fully" resisted is misleading.
08:05:05 <Henzell> alefury: OK, I'll let MarvinPA know.
08:05:38 <Wensley> why are all of our hybrids half-human
08:05:44 <Wensley> seems quite anthropocentric
08:06:07 <Wensley> I'm going to change arachne's description to make her half-orc and let's see anyone try and stop me!
08:06:10 <kilobyte> they tend to come from mythology, and those writing it were, guess what, humans
08:06:17 <Wensley> racism
08:06:20 <Wensley> speciesism
08:06:27 <Wensley> bigotry, is what I am saying
08:08:30 <cbus> wensley, half alien!
08:08:31 <cbus> much better
08:08:31 <cbus> :D
08:09:06 <Wensley> kilobyte: it is a myth perpetuated by the conquering human victors of countless unjust wars that humans are the only species "enlightened" enough to preserve their history in written tradition
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08:13:39 <phyphor> Wensley: We should have a unique that has the body of a centaur and the head of a minotaur
08:13:47 <Wensley> I've thought of that before
08:13:49 <Wensley> wait no
08:13:52 <Wensley> I thought of the opposite
08:13:58 <Wensley> head of a centaur and body of a minotaur
08:14:04 <Wensley> I suggested replacing humans with these
08:14:08 <phyphor> the torso and head of a centaur and the body and legs of a minotaur?
08:14:12 <Wensley> yes
08:14:16 <phyphor> but what would we call such crazy creatures?
08:14:34 <Wensley> hmmm... manotaur
08:14:56 <kilobyte> it's summed up pretty well here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html
08:14:56 <phyphor> obviously the opposite would be a taurotaur
08:15:18 <kilobyte> (lowest left panel)
08:16:51 <Wensley> so what's in arachne's band
08:16:58 <kilobyte> hmm, nothing
08:17:08 <kilobyte> can give her one, good idea
08:17:18 <Wensley> her inscription seems to imply a band :)
08:17:29 <Wensley> or at least a summon spiders spell
08:17:41 <Wensley> and she should definitely have spider friends
08:17:52 <Wensley> in fact all spiders should have spider friends, recursively
08:18:36 <Wensley> I cannot and will not ever stop pushing for greater quantities of spiders
08:18:42 <kilobyte> back to hybrids being only half-human: what about a half-lion half-eagle?  Or half-lion half-eagle half-horse?  Or half-lion half-scorpion?
08:19:07 <Wensley> that would be fine if we had sentient lions/eagles/horses/scorpions
08:19:31 <Wensley> let's change manticores to half-felids
08:19:41 <Wensley> griffons to half-tengu
08:19:58 <Wensley> wait, griffons to half-tengu half-centaur
08:20:43 <phyphor> awesome
08:21:03 <phyphor> Wensley: Manticores should come back from the dead?
08:21:17 <Wensley> would certainly make them more interesting
08:21:38 <phyphor> When will spiders be a playable race?
08:21:44 <phyphor> we can make modified octopodes
08:21:53 <Wensley> honestly I'm pretty unimpressed with nearly our entire H glyph
08:22:24 <Wensley> !lg * killer=manticore s=cv
08:22:27 <Sequell> 997 games for * (killer=manticore): 156x 0.9, 120x 0.5, 102x 0.7, 100x 0.8, 99x 0.4, 72x 0.10-a, 57x 0.3, 49x 0.6, 48x 0.10, 46x 0.8-a, 34x 0.6-a, 32x 0.9-a, 23x 0.2, 23x 0.1, 14x 0.5-a, 9x 0.11-a, 8x 0.7-a, 5x 0.4-a
08:23:08 <kilobyte> BTW, both the description and the tile for manticores include wings, yet they can't fly in the game
08:23:12 <Wensley> !lg * killer=gruffon s=cv
08:23:13 <Sequell> No games for * (killer=gruffon)
08:23:19 <Wensley> !lg * killer=griffon s=cv
08:23:20 <Sequell> 313 games for * (killer=griffon): 52x 0.9, 38x 0.10-a, 37x 0.7, 34x 0.5, 26x 0.4, 25x 0.8, 23x 0.8-a, 18x 0.9-a, 16x 0.6, 14x 0.10, 11x 0.6-a, 5x 0.2, 4x 0.11-a, 4x 0.7-a, 3x 0.4-a, 2x 0.3, 0.5-a
08:23:22 <Wensley> kilobyte: weird
08:23:27 <Wensley> sounds like a one-line fix
08:25:07 <kilobyte> some vaults may be relying on that, though
08:25:14 <kilobyte> it quite often matters in the Shoals
08:25:20 <alefury> wait, there are manticore vaults?
08:25:34 <alefury> and yeah, it matters in the shoals. but usually not in a good way.
08:25:37 <Wensley> honestly how many people even realize that manticores can't fly
08:25:52 <Wensley> how many vault authors would put them in vaults assuming they couldn't fly
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08:27:21 <Wensley> let's replace all manticores with centaurs, all griffons with catlobes, remove minotaurs and labs, and make it so that arachne's glyph flashes between @ and s and bam we've freed up the H glyph
08:27:36 <Wensley> for...
08:27:49 <Wensley> hmm
08:28:13 <ghallberg> What about wyverns, can they fly now? I know they couldn't before.
08:28:54 <nfogravity> hippopotami.
08:29:16 <Wensley> hippos seem like they would be on Y
08:29:26 <nfogravity> yeah almost certainly
08:29:34 <nfogravity> death hams
08:29:37 <Wensley> +1
08:33:41 <alefury> hm, there are manticores in volcano.des and shoals.des
08:35:24 <alefury> neither seems to rely on non-flying though
08:36:45 <nfogravity> coding convention question: when do i name a function something like _this_function() and when do i name it this_function()?
08:36:57 <Wensley> isn't one private and one public
08:37:01 <Wensley> or something
08:37:09 <ghallberg> _ is private I think.
08:37:16 <Wensley> nfogravity: there's actually a coding style guide somewhere in the docs if you haven't seen that
08:37:20 <nfogravity> ah okay. i did see it
08:37:37 <nfogravity> i'm pretty sure that bit wasn't mentioned, that might just be a general style thing
08:37:40 <kilobyte> @??arachne
08:37:40 <Gretell> Arachne (11H) | Speed: 15 | HD: 17 | Health: 200 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 30 | Flags: spellcaster, sense invisible, web sense | Res: 06magic(68) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 5427 | Sp: ensnare, poison arrow (3d24), blink, b.venom (3d21).
08:37:49 <Wensley> remember, the coding style guide mandates the use of global state wherever possible
08:38:32 <nfogravity> which makes a lot of sense for a game like this
08:38:39 <alefury> a lot of static functions have a leading _
08:38:45 <kilobyte> which spell should get replaced by Summon Spider?  Current: ensnare/p.arrow/blink/ensnare/venom bolt (plus ensnare when retreating)
08:38:48 <alefury> dont know if that has anything to do with it, though
08:38:54 <Wensley> mostly I am just angry at how it is to do moths of vuln with all this global state hanging around :|
08:39:21 <Wensley> kilobyte: bvenom and parrow seem redundant
08:39:32 <alefury> having both means more poison, though
08:39:33 <Wensley> kilobyte: especially since bvenom will pass through the player and hit other spiders
08:39:47 <Wensley> unless that is not how monster bolts work
08:40:16 <Wensley> are there any uniques that even have parrow, discounting uniques with random spell sets?
08:40:22 <Wensley> @??aizul
08:40:22 <Gretell> Aizul (13S) | Speed: 15 | HD: 14 | Health: 142 | AC/EV: 8/18 | Damage: 25 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(112), 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 2602 | Sp: b.venom (3d18), sleep, poison arrow (3d21).
08:40:24 <st_> I'd drop blink, unless she's supposed to be a jumping spider
08:40:26 <kilobyte> blink is good if there are summons and/or ranged spells
08:40:30 <Wensley> blink is good
08:40:32 <kilobyte> makes berserkers think twice
08:41:20 <Wensley> weird that aizul also has both bvenom and parrow
08:41:49 <alefury> probably giving him parraw twice was deemed too harsh
08:42:03 <Wensley> kilobyte: are you making a whole new "summon spider" spell or are you resuing the spider basket code
08:42:07 <alefury> or maybe he just got the two monster poison spells that exist
08:42:19 <Wensley> because it would be pretty cool if arachne summoned non-vanilla spiders
08:42:59 <kilobyte> Wensley: uhm, how exactly can you reuse a lua hack for a spell?
08:43:04 <Wensley> no idea
08:43:11 <Wensley> I don't know how that works
08:43:36 <kilobyte> there's some nasty code duplication for summoning spells, though
08:43:40 <Wensley> perhaps we just need to rewrite all of crawl in lua? I hear that lua-jit is quite performant these days
08:44:16 <kilobyte> and what exactly would be the benefit there?
08:44:17 <Wensley> that would neatly solve the problem of not being able to reuse this lame spider summoning spell
08:44:42 <Keskitalo> ghallberg: I think I fixed wyvern flight, sounds like manticores could use M_FLIES too :) -- I agree it could use a vault review
08:44:43 <Wensley> kilobyte: oh, could you just give her shadow creatures
08:44:54 <Keskitalo> looks like alefury did it already? :)
08:48:37 <alefury> just a quick grep really. the shoals.des occurence is an entry vault with some beasts and no terrain, i didnt really get what happens in volcano.des, but according to the accompanying comment its lindwurm / manticore / fire drake, so one of the alternatives can already fly
08:49:21 <alefury> its in some weird monster generation code segment, and i have no clue what anything lua-related does
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09:11:05 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  even with distance_iterator, if you go to a large open level and place an orb spider directly south of you, it will eventually end up moving to your north and alternating between about 10 and 2 o'clock
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09:11:37 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  (with range_iterator instead, the spider ends up directly north of you)
09:14:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  I changed only the _set_firing_pos() code... presumably there is something elsewhere introducing the bias
09:16:03 <alefury> |amethyst: re viewing ##crawl-dev logs in firefox, im going to try this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/open-in-browser/
09:17:13 <nfogravity> am i right in thinking that because of the skill rework in .9 that there are some variables that are still in the code but no longer used?
09:18:23 <kilobyte> nfogravity: heh, I'm analyzing symbols used in only a single file as we speak
09:18:27 <nfogravity> specifically you.exp_available, but maybe there's others
09:18:29 <kilobyte> functions rather than variables, though
09:18:44 <kilobyte> exp_available is used for skill practise
09:19:50 <nfogravity> i guess i'm not clear on the definition of practice since .9
09:24:42 <|amethyst> alefury:  I was investigating that a little more closely... in chrome, I'm getting "application/octet-stream" for the ones that want to download and "text/plain" for the ones that show in browser
09:24:50 <|amethyst> alefury:  but wget shows text/plain for them all
09:27:16 <Wensley> the server could be serving different mime types for different clients
09:27:20 <alefury> i dont know anything about web stuff and mime types and all that. i just know it sometimes works and it sometimes doesnt.
09:27:47 <Wensley> what are you trying to download? the tozt logs?
09:27:56 <Wensley> oh hm, we have a new log server?
09:27:58 <|amethyst> the ones on s-z.org/crawl-dev/
09:28:02 <alefury> not tozt anymore, and trying to open in browser, but yes
09:28:21 <alefury> the addon works, though, so problem solved for me :)
09:28:42 <alefury> or worked around, at least
09:29:32 <alefury> i think i had the same problem on tozt
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09:34:23 <|amethyst> alefury:  the difference seems to be that the problematic ones have control characters on the first line
09:34:57 <Wensley> what's the encoding
09:35:03 <Wensley> might be giving you UTF-8 with a bom
09:35:14 <Wensley> as opposed to just plain UTF-8
09:35:17 <alefury> oh. but sometimes i have been able to get them to open by doing weird crap. sometimes it didnt work, though.
09:35:35 <Wensley> a lot of applications will choke on boms in utf-8
09:35:49 <MarvinPA> |amethyst: thanks for looking at the boulder beetle patch! i'll play with the branch later on and see about fixing up the last couple of things that needed changing
09:35:49 <Henzell> MarvinPA: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them.
09:35:51 <|amethyst> Wensley:  it's the ctrl-c and ctrl-o from IRC colours
09:35:56 <Wensley> oh I see
09:36:11 <Wensley> boulder beetles in spider
09:36:16 <CIA-62> 03MarvinPA * ra8cb8aadb485 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/skills.txt: Update skill descriptions again (alefury)
09:36:29 <|amethyst> oh
09:36:32 <|amethyst> that's it in chrome
09:36:47 <|amethyst> in firefox it seems to be a different set of logs that have problems
09:36:54 <Wensley> ha
09:39:34 <|amethyst> odd, in firefox it always asks to download the second time I click on a given log
09:40:12 <alefury> yeah. also usually when i click on any log after opening one in the browser.
09:40:33 <alefury> sometimes i could get it to work again by using the "inspect feature" feature
09:41:05 <alefury> but today it didnt work :(
09:41:30 <|amethyst> probably clearing your cache would work; it doesn't in chrome
09:43:48 <kilobyte> Wensley: because, uhm, what's exactly the point of a bom in UTF-8?
09:44:05 <kilobyte> there's so many endiannesses a single byte can have...
09:45:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  some use it to indicate "this is UTF-8", but that's problematic
09:46:12 <kilobyte> it also breaks a good deal of assumptions that are generally true in text streams, and Unix is basically built upon text streams and tiny little utilities that work with them
09:49:09 <|amethyst> it seems almost as though it's chrome itself that is checking for control characters
09:51:45 <|amethyst> I'm not having much luck searching for that, though
09:55:43 <Wensley> kilobyte: yes, I'm agreeing with you
09:59:58 <|amethyst> I'm giving up on this for now... if someone figures out how to stop chrome from wanting to download rather than display text/plain with control characters in the first few lines, please let me know
10:00:38 <|amethyst> I'm guessing firefox is offering to download if there are control characters anywhere in the file; but that it only knows this after displaying it the first time
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10:05:48 <|amethyst> HousePet was working on having static discharge not cast with 'z' when there are no adjacent monsters
10:06:11 <|amethyst> his solution (at https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4554) sets the range on the spell to 1,1 rather than -1,-1
10:06:17 <|amethyst> are there any potential problems with this?
10:07:07 <|amethyst> it does continue to arc properly
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10:11:41 <Wensley> |amethyst: can you link an example of one of the files that doesn't work
10:12:09 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20120318.log
10:12:22 <|amethyst> this one does work (for me in chromium):  http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20120317.log
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10:16:34 <Wensley> |amethyst: was that first file one of the ones that doesn't work in firefox?
10:17:09 <kilobyte> -18 returns 406 Not Acceptable
10:17:15 <|amethyst> in firefox it seems that they all work the first time but not later
10:17:20 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  using curl?
10:17:29 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  I think the server is blocking curl; try wget instead
10:17:54 <Wensley> |amethyst: I've hosted it on my own server and it seems to work fine using that addon, tell me if anything's different: http://seleniac.org/%23%23crawl-dev-20120318.log
10:18:11 <kilobyte> not curl, libwww-perl
10:18:15 <|amethyst> Wensley:  same thing
10:18:22 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  maybe that too then
10:18:43 <|amethyst> it's not my server so I can't change that (well, I can, since I have root; but the owner would probably not approve)
10:18:58 <|amethyst> Wensley:  same problem with chrome
10:20:41 <Wensley> |amethyst: not sure how you're opening it in chrome, but repeated visits work fine for me in firefox
10:21:29 <Wensley> where are these control characters located?
10:21:35 <|amethyst> it the first couple of lines
10:21:45 <|amethyst> if they are later, chrome seems to be fine
10:21:54 <kilobyte> blocking some browsers is a bug in the server (almost surely its configuration)
10:22:06 <Wensley> I'm not seeing any bash color control characters here
10:22:09 <kilobyte> but for the "Save As" problem, it is done intentionally
10:22:20 <kilobyte> the headers include Content-Disposition:
10:22:24 <|amethyst> they do?
10:22:26 <Wensley> looking for something like [\m03;239]\m or something
10:22:29 <Wensley> right?
10:22:34 <|amethyst> wait
10:22:45 <|amethyst> I just tried adding Content-Disposition: inline   but it didn't work
10:23:08 <|amethyst> but I removed that
10:23:28 <|amethyst> you shouldn't be getting any content-disposition header now
10:24:13 <|amethyst> and certainly they shouldn't differ from one file to the next
10:24:31 <Wensley> honestly, it seems highly unlikely that a content type of text/plain would cause any browser to attempt to interpret its contents as anything other than plain text
10:24:42 <Wensley> control characters or no
10:25:25 <|amethyst> it may be purely coincidence that the ones that work in chrome seem to be the ones that don't have control chars in the first few lines
10:26:38 <|amethyst> Wensley:  the control characters are ctrl-c and ctrl-o
10:26:45 <|amethyst> these are IRC codes, not ANSI
10:27:38 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  actually, I'm not sure if it is an intentional block or not
10:28:53 <Wensley> oh I think I see them now, it's been reduced to just "03" in this font
10:29:27 <Wensley> but it still renders properly given that unknown glyphs just aren't displayed
10:29:44 <galehar> nfogravity: you.exp_available is still used
10:30:06 <galehar> xp first goes there, then it is converted to skill points
10:30:10 <nfogravity> ahh okay
10:30:16 <galehar> there may be some left over
10:30:19 <galehar> < skill cost
10:30:36 <nfogravity> so the .9 change just made it automatic and gave the player more control over what goes where?
10:30:45 <galehar> practice is used to set training values in auto mode
10:30:54 <galehar> yes
10:30:58 <galehar> *just*
10:30:58 <nfogravity> makes sense
10:31:04 <nfogravity> haha no it was a huge change
10:31:12 <nfogravity> but on the code side, not a complete overhaul
10:31:31 <galehar> yes, some old code survived
10:32:42 <Wensley> |amethyst: I think the best solution is to just rename all the files to .txt and be done with it :P
10:33:04 <Wensley> oh hm, chrome doesn't even display .txt natively
10:33:36 <|amethyst> yeah, tried that :)
10:33:42 <Wensley> but firefox does!
10:33:44 <Wensley> problem solved.
10:33:47 <|amethyst> And just adding one extra line isn't enough
10:34:41 <Wensley> |amethyst: just make a webpage that loads the logs dynamically
10:35:00 <Wensley> web-based crawl-dev log viewer
10:35:32 <|amethyst> I'll get right on that :P
10:35:59 <Wensley> come on, it would take like a minute :P
10:36:30 <Wensley> I will even do it for you, right now, and see if I can't get it done before lunch
10:41:09 <Gretell> MrBismarck (L13 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 171: Webtiles message too long! (-1) (D:10)
10:43:21 <|amethyst> Wensley:  that would be appreciated... it would be nice if something like that were not necessary, but oh well
10:44:02 <|amethyst> back to the static discharge thing.... any potential problems with setting its range to 1 rather than -1 ?
10:44:28 <|amethyst> it seems to work
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10:47:56 <galehar> |amethyst: try to see how it behaves for monsters having known and unknown relec
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10:48:45 <|amethyst> galehar:  he doesn't handle that
10:48:56 <|amethyst> "I'm not sure about making it check for usefulness.
10:48:57 <|amethyst> Most damage spells don't abort when the target is immune."
10:49:13 <galehar> what about flying monsters?
10:49:14 <|amethyst> he does have a point... bolt of draining will still z-cast with only undead in range
10:49:26 <|amethyst> He only changes the range to 1, nothing else
10:49:44 <galehar> ok, so it just aborts when there's no monster in range
10:49:54 <galehar> well, it's still an improvement
10:49:57 <|amethyst> yeah
10:50:10 <|amethyst> I'm not certain whether changing the range would have other effects, though
10:56:03 <galehar> no idea
10:56:16 <galehar> push it in trunk and we'll see ;)
10:56:29 <|amethyst> I'm compiling with tiles to test one thing
10:56:38 <|amethyst> if that works I'll push
10:59:48 <Wensley> |amethyst: http://seleniac.org/logs/logview
11:00:04 <Wensley> enter '20120318' in the text field
11:00:33 <|amethyst> Wensley:  yay!  thanks
11:01:35 <|amethyst> what is it on the server side?
11:01:38 <Wensley> nothing
11:01:44 <|amethyst> even better
11:01:47 <Wensley> that page alone should do you
11:02:07 <Wensley> just in time for lunch :P
11:02:18 <galehar> maybe but this url in the topic?
11:02:24 <galehar> anyway, have to go
11:02:26 <galehar> 'later
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11:04:44 <Wensley> |amethyst: it should just work if you stick it in the http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ directory
11:10:10 <Wensley> |amethyst: submitting a pull request for version 3.0
11:10:24 <|amethyst> huh?
11:10:28 <|amethyst> version 3.0 of what?
11:10:32 <Wensley> logview
11:10:42 <Wensley> there have been many important changes and improvements
11:10:46 <Wensley> see the changelog
11:15:28 <|amethyst> hmm... it would be nice if mod_autoindex's AddDescription could substitute the filename into the description
11:16:59 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba
11:25:05 <st_> why can't vampires use cure poison at normal blood level?
11:33:04 <|amethyst> Wensley:  okay, I added a few things
11:33:21 <|amethyst> And moved your self-promotion to an <h2> rather than the title
11:33:23 <|amethyst> :)
11:33:35 <Wensley> |amethyst: actually it's fucked up at the moment because I'm trying to get the page to not interpret irc usernames as html tags
11:33:43 <Wensley> it's actually quite frustrating
11:34:01 <|amethyst> oh
11:34:04 <|amethyst> and xss
11:34:55 <Wensley> is there an xss vuln somewhere
11:35:22 <Wensley> not like there is any personal data to be revealed
11:35:29 <|amethyst> anyone in ##crawl can cause any HTML to appear in the page, right?
11:35:41 <Wensley> I am trying to get it to escape all < and >
11:35:51 <Wensley> but for some reason it is not working correctly
11:37:05 <Wensley> okay now it works
11:37:07 <|amethyst> if the data could be inserted as a text node instead of using $.html
11:37:14 <|amethyst> that would avoid any need to encode
11:37:29 <Wensley> mdn was lying to me when it said default behavior was to replace all occurences of the pattern
11:37:37 <Wensley> anyway, now all < and > are &lt; and &gt;
11:37:45 <Wensley> so no html injection
11:37:50 <|amethyst> & should be &amp; too
11:38:18 <Wensley> man it would be nice if you could just put raw text on a page while also perserving line breaks
11:39:01 <Wensley> |amethyst: looks like the pre tags preserve & properly
11:39:08 <Wensley> think it was just things it thought were html
11:40:21 <kilobyte> if you're parsing the log already, why won't you convert the colours?
11:40:27 <Wensley> not parsing
11:40:46 <Wensley> just find-replacing all < and > with &sdfsd; equivalents
11:41:33 <Wensley> I mean I guess I could find-replace irc color control codes with spans to color things
11:41:44 <kilobyte> yeah
11:41:57 <|amethyst> and what if they are unbalanced?
11:42:06 <|amethyst> 03
11:43:13 <kilobyte> aren't they usually unbalanced already?
11:43:30 <Wensley> ha, how do I even type a literal ^C in anything
11:43:44 <|amethyst> I dunno... I thought there was an end-colour code
11:43:53 <|amethyst> Wensley:  ctrl-v ctrl-c in irssi
11:43:56 <Wensley> anyway this can be for version 19.0
11:44:02 <Wensley> 
11:46:43 <kilobyte> great, looks like you can't even write ",01" in a colour
11:47:00 <|amethyst> bold
11:47:05 <|amethyst> that's ctrl-b
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11:49:07 <|amethyst> Wensley:  okay, check out http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/  now
11:49:39 <|amethyst> Wensley:  the "View log" links call your function as well (using nasty hackery to find the log URL)
11:54:23 <CIA-62> 03andre_axem * rcafddc78c712 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Corrects are the monsters in range check for static discharge
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12:05:35 <|amethyst> 03,02test
12:06:16 <|amethyst> 03,10test
12:06:36 <|amethyst> 03,11test
12:06:44 <|amethyst> hmm
12:07:10 <|amethyst> yeah, I don't think I'm ready to parse the colours
12:08:42 <chrisoelmueller> wow this is exceptionally ugly :p
12:09:08 <|amethyst> did the last one blink?
12:09:26 <chrisoelmueller> no idea, i disabled blinking here at least
12:13:59 <alefury> can pressing enter in the date field please work?
12:14:26 <Wensley> you people act like I didn't throw this thing together in 90 seconds :P
12:14:28 <alefury> other than that, nice
12:15:44 <Henzell> Danswan the Chopper (L6 HuBe)  (D:4)
12:16:31 <Wensley> |amethyst: did you add something server-side to get the list of logs or what
12:17:04 <Wensley> I had tried and failed to fetch the auto-generated index page using ajax
12:17:47 <|amethyst> Wensley:  I added your script as the Header of the autoindex
12:17:54 <Wensley> oh, ha
12:18:16 <Wensley> cool that you can do that
12:18:31 <|amethyst> my version is at http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/.logview.html
12:19:02 <|amethyst> Then my .htaccess says:
12:19:08 <|amethyst> HeaderName .logview.html
12:19:08 <|amethyst> AddDescription "<a href='#' onclick='wensley(this.previousSibling.previousSibling.attributes[\"href\"].value)'>View log</a>" *
12:19:50 <|amethyst> the previousSibling.previousSibling stuff is the "nasty hackery" I was referring to earlier
12:20:55 <|amethyst> alefury:  should be fixed now... I added a form with an onsubmit, instead of using an onclick on the button
12:20:59 <Wensley> man my eyes just glaze over looking at apache configs
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12:21:39 <Wensley> goodgood, I can never remember how html forms work
12:21:44 <Wensley> jquery is so much easier :P
12:22:54 <nfogravity> i just died to a tarantella in a food vault on d:9 or 10. i think it's kind of blatantly unfair to put one of those there
12:23:11 <Wensley> !lg nfogravity x=map
12:23:12 <Sequell> 1519. [map=hangedman pestilent swarm] nfogravity the Cloud Mage (L11 TeAE), worshipper of Vehumet, mangled by a tarantella on D:9 (hangedman pestilent swarm) on 2012-03-20, with 7610 points after 15472 turns and 1:00:58.
12:23:15 <Wensley> I knew it
12:23:44 <nfogravity> if you're a mage you're completely fucked
12:24:22 <alefury> haha, hangedman
12:24:44 <nfogravity> that is unreasonable, yes?
12:25:24 <alefury> kill it with fire? but seriously, i have no idea whether that vault is fair or not. just, haha hangedman
12:25:38 <alefury> @??tarantella
12:25:38 <Gretell> tarantella (13s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-58 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 1613(confuse), 813(confuse) | Flags: web sense | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 457.
12:25:54 <alefury> they were buffed a lot recently i think?
12:25:56 <nfogravity> well, i was an ae, so. it was one of those vaults that has staggered walls so that when something appears it's instantly in melee
12:26:23 <Cheibriados> tarantella (13s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-58 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 1613(confuse), 813(confuse) | Flags: web sense | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 457.

12:26:23 <alefury> %??tarantella
12:26:28 <nfogravity> ophanim suggested to compare it to
12:26:30 <nfogravity> ??orc knight
12:26:31 <Henzell> orc knight[1/2]: The second most powerful melee orc you can find in the Orcish Mines.  Confusion is a good plan, but you can kill them without it... it will just hurt more. If you see one of these plus a few warriors, or more than one of them, running might not be a bad idea.
12:26:32 <alefury> @?tarantella
12:26:32 <Gretell> tarantella (13s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 813(confuse) | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 90.
12:26:37 <alefury> ah, see?
12:26:58 <alefury> the vault assumes old tarantella
12:27:01 <nfogravity> ah
12:27:18 <alefury> so surprisingly its not even hangedmans fault :)
12:27:28 <nfogravity> can i change that?
12:27:38 <kilobyte> orc knights die 2:5 to tarantellas on the arena
12:27:46 <nfogravity> ha!
12:28:16 <kilobyte> @??orc knight
12:28:16 <Gretell> orc knight (10o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 9 | Health: 47-87 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Damage: 25 | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 682.
12:28:27 <Wensley> what if we just revert the spider buff and then double the number of spiders in spider
12:28:42 <nfogravity> i'd like that, wensley
12:28:47 <nfogravity> that's what i was hoping for from spider
12:29:01 <nfogravity> i don't think there are any branches that have the "oh GOD that's a lot of monsters" feel
12:29:12 <alefury> hive did. it sucked.
12:29:13 <Wensley> orc does a little
12:29:13 <nfogravity> and the spiders' nest vaults often did feel like that
12:29:16 <Wensley> orc is great
12:29:20 <nfogravity> orc is fantastic
12:29:28 <alefury> orc is indeed fantastic
12:29:34 <Wensley> hive just sucked because there was one monster
12:29:38 <Wensley> we will have dozens
12:29:43 <Wensley> more than any other branch
12:29:48 <nfogravity> the layout was boring too
12:29:54 <Wensley> yes, delve is great
12:29:58 <Wensley> <3 delve
12:30:32 <nfogravity> well no worries, i figure silly deaths like that will happen in trunk
12:30:49 <nfogravity> i think that tarantella should probably be a scorpion instead though, for now :D
12:31:38 <alefury> @??scorpion
12:31:38 <Gretell> scorpion (08s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 1004(medium poison) | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 37.
12:31:46 <alefury> thats even weaker than old tarantella
12:31:53 <nfogravity> haha, or something
12:32:00 <alefury> @??spider
12:32:00 <Gretell> spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: web sense | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 43.
12:32:23 <alefury> @??jumping spider
12:32:24 <Gretell> jumping spider (12s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 30-58 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Damage: 2004(medium poison) | Flags: sense invisible, web sense, !sil | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 327 | Sp: blink close, blink away.
12:32:28 <alefury> ough
12:32:34 <alefury> all the spiders are badasses now
12:32:35 <nfogravity> that's quite a jump
12:32:42 <nfogravity> maybe a soldier ant
12:32:52 <alefury> those are also pretty strong iirc
12:32:54 <alefury> @??soldier ant
12:32:54 <Gretell> soldier ant (16a) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-45 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Damage: 1408(nasty poison) | Res: 06magic(24) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 157.
12:33:06 <alefury> also, keeping it fast would be nice
12:33:33 <nfogravity> it's a food vault, that's a pretty nasty punishment
12:33:52 <alefury> !tell hangedman one of your vault got pretty brutal thanks to tarantellas being about 5 times as strong as they were, take a look?
12:33:52 <Henzell> alefury: OK, I'll let hangedman know.
12:33:53 <Wensley> |amethyst: logview suggestion: replace '<h2>Wensley is so awesome</h2>' with ''<h2>'+arguments.callee.toString().replace('function ', '').replace(/\(\)[\s\S]*/, '')+'is so awesome</h2>'
12:34:12 <nfogravity> thanks alefury
12:34:19 <|amethyst> Wensley:  haha
12:34:22 <alefury> !tell hangedman its hangedman_pestilent_swarm it seems
12:34:22 <Henzell> alefury: OK, I'll let hangedman know.
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12:37:42 <|amethyst> Wensley:  it doesn't actually work since I'm using anonymous functions
12:38:49 <Wensley> oh I missed that :(
12:39:00 <Wensley> maybe the with keyword will help here
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14:06:34 <Keskitalo> What would you think of giving e.g. crocodiles "reverse trampling", that is, they would grab you and pull you backwards (towards their position)?
14:07:54 <Cheibriados> Monsters are way too bold rushing into poison clouds (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5463) by doublep
14:12:40 <Wensley> Keskitalo: that's actually what I had in mind for kelpies, I suppose it could work on crocs too (but kelpies are cooler :P )
14:16:10 <Zannick> crocodile sirens
14:16:33 <CIA-62> 03MarvinPA * r628a8de0fb4e 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Don't allow using items from the inventory screen while dead
14:17:08 <Wensley> !tell hangedman MarvinPA * r628a8de0fb4e /crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Don't allow using items from the inventory screen while dead
14:17:08 <Henzell> Wensley: OK, I'll let hangedman know.
14:17:26 <MarvinPA> haha
14:17:30 <MarvinPA> blade already did that in ##crawl
14:17:34 <Wensley> hahaha
14:19:01 <Wensley> MarvinPA: do you have any insight as to why moth of vuln's aura spawns properly with the moth and goes away when the moth dies, but doesn't move *with* the moth? :P
14:19:28 <MarvinPA> not a clue, sorry
14:19:41 <Wensley> somehow silent spectres manage it
14:19:47 <Wensley> tell me your secrets
14:19:50 <Wensley> oh wait they are silent :(
14:23:11 <Wensley> Eronarn: did you have this problem with umbra where the aura doesn't move with the monster?
14:24:22 <Wensley> it's not even like it's just not being redrawn as it moves away from a thing
14:24:43 <Wensley> I can literally pull the moth out of the aura that it spawned within and then kill it to destroy the aura
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14:27:08 <Wensley> honestly I thrilled enough that it compiles
14:27:28 <Wensley> because srsly what is the point of header files
14:28:09 <|amethyst> Wensley:  did you invalidate_agrid(true)  in _place_monster_aux() ?
14:29:38 <|amethyst> Wensley:  oh, that's just for placing
14:29:46 <|amethyst> Wensley:  areas_actor_moved()
14:30:13 <|amethyst> Wensley:  try grepping for silence_radius2
14:30:32 <Wensley> ah good plan, thank you
14:30:33 <nfogravity> header files are an organizational tool that existed before the object-oriented paradigm. now they exist to make you cry
14:30:35 <|amethyst> I think _update_agrid needs handling too
14:33:49 <Wensley> |amethyst: thanks, it was the actor_moved bit
14:34:28 <Wensley> okay I think this is roughly working, now I just need to define what the status effect bestowed by the aura does
14:34:39 <Wensley> was thinking it would basically "turn off" the effects of your magic items
14:34:52 <Wensley> both positive and negative
14:37:24 <Wensley> here's a weird thing: I have a monster cornered like this:
14:37:30 <Wensley> .##
14:37:34 <Wensley> @y#
14:37:38 <Wensley> .##
14:37:43 <Wensley> and it refuses to stop fleeing
14:37:47 <Wensley> never turns and fights, never moves
14:38:44 <Wensley> been thinking about how to convey what this moth does to the player
14:38:57 <Wensley> been actually calling it a "moth of suppression" this whole time
14:39:07 <Wensley> with all the flavor text bits mentioning a "field of magical suppression"
14:39:46 <Wensley> since it's a little hard to come up with a description that implies *just* suppressing magical items, was thinking that this aura would also give you like a single negative spell enhancer for all schools
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14:40:51 <Wensley> I don't really think that's much of a disadvantage at all really, so it shouldn't be too controversial. also, falls more in line with what the player expects, so less spoilery
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14:58:51 <|amethyst> I think for spider we'd want something specifically for rP
15:00:11 <|amethyst> though now that you've done it once it shouldn't be too hard to add a second kind of aura
15:00:32 <|amethyst> because I think magic-suppressing moth is cool too
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15:07:25 <Wensley> |amethyst: well the idea is that nearly the only way to get rP is via magic items
15:07:35 <Wensley> people seemed to want to leave the natural rP on nagas alone
15:08:13 <Wensley> I haven't even started coding the status effect yet so now is the time to discuss this
15:09:19 <Wensley> also, it's possible to raise objections about both rP inversion and rP negation
15:09:29 <Wensley> although the latter not as much
15:10:15 <Wensley> whereas because you're the only thing in spider that really has magic items, this is a good mechanic without inadvetently nerfing anything else
15:10:29 <Wensley> and if arachne or nikola manage to get caught in it and you don't mind having no resists, then great!
15:10:36 <Wensley> don't mind having no
15:11:17 <kilobyte> Arachne depends on her staff for rPois
15:11:38 <Wensley> kilobyte: if that's a problem, I really don't see why we can't just give her rP outright
15:11:48 <Wensley> as it is, I think using the moth to deny her rP is hilarious
15:12:20 <Wensley> because really, it's not that big of a deal since you'll almost certainly have no rP as well
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15:27:31 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
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15:28:38 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
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15:31:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
15:31:30 <Wensley> regardless of what the effect ends up being, how do I make an aura grant a status to everything inside of it
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15:32:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
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15:33:46 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever.
15:34:09 <Wensley> so it should definitely be an effect that gets rid of your magical resists when you enter it, but not sure how to do that for all actors
15:34:14 <Wensley> or hell, even for just the player
15:34:24 <|amethyst> monster:: and player::res_poison()
15:34:32 <|amethyst> I think checking for the aura there should work
15:35:10 <|amethyst> that's easier and less error-prone than toggling a state when you enter and exit the aura
15:35:21 <Wensley> you're the expert here
15:35:47 <Wensley> that sounds peachy
15:36:17 <Wensley> as long as that function also controls what a player sees on their % screen
15:36:24 <|amethyst> as for magic item stuff, you'd need to add a check for the aura around the rf += player_equip() lines (etc) in player_res_fire and friends
15:36:55 <|amethyst> and if you also want to prevent evoking items, in other places as well
15:37:11 <Wensley> I think I'll leave evokables/consumables alone for now
15:37:22 <Wensley> but will need to reconsider them later
15:37:31 <Wensley> do monsters even have spellpower?
15:38:11 <|amethyst> 12 * mons->hit_dice   usually
15:38:12 <Wensley> because if not then it feels like it ought to be relatively straightforward to say, "you're in the aura, -1 enhancer"
15:38:18 <Wensley> hmm
15:38:46 <Wensley> well that's secondary to the resists thing
15:39:02 <Wensley> but yeah, I do think I want to suppress evokables
15:39:19 <Wensley> I like the idea that you can't evoke blink from your armor to escape
15:39:45 <Wensley> until killing the moth, anyway
15:40:06 <Wensley> which will probably be fairly frail, but fast and dodgy
15:40:49 <nfogravity> damp moth
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15:41:19 <Wensley> chei keeps using step from time
15:41:19 <|amethyst> and if you're levitating over water when it comes into view?
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15:41:55 <Wensley> |amethyst: not really interested in making it affect ongoing effects, but that might be a little scummy?
15:42:21 <Wensley> you wouldn't be able to re-evoke in any case, but that's not really any different from now
15:42:41 <Wensley> it's also possible I could just make it a big penalty to the evocable success
15:42:45 <Wensley> depends on how frisky I'm feeling
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15:44:04 <|amethyst> seems kind of inconsistent... rF+ is an ongoing effect
15:45:15 <Wensley> |amethyst: whatevs, I guess players will have to resist the urge to stray into the ominous green aura while over water
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15:47:06 <Wensley> !tell evilmike we have a moth and the moth has an aura and the aura has an effect but that effect doesn't do *anything*
15:47:07 <Henzell> Wensley: OK, I'll let evilmike know.
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16:01:19 <Gretell> flord (L11 HOSk)  (D:10)
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16:13:07 <kilobyte> !lm flord type=crash -log
16:13:09 <Sequell> 5. flord, XL11 HOSk, T:17808 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.10/flord/crash-flord-20120320-210108.txt
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16:37:13 <Henzell> PowerWord the Spear-Bearer (L13 NaFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1388 failed on turn 17588. (Lair:6)
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17:02:05 <HangedMan> I like how chei's logs now say Wensley is so awesome at the top of the in-site log display
17:11:20 <HangedMan> also how I managed to trip over three new bugs in trying out two new vaults because I apparently attract these things
17:12:28 <nfogravity1> that seems like a good skill
17:20:07 <HangedMan> how to phrase this... "Floors before most branch ends replace shafts in vaults with other traps"?
17:21:32 <Zannick> "A vault placed on a floor directly above a branch end will have its shaft traps replaced with other traps"?
17:22:04 <HangedMan> that'll work
17:22:06 <Zannick> or "...will replace its shaft traps..." if you want to strictly avoid the passive voice
17:22:10 <|amethyst> I'd make "directly above branch end" available to lua
17:22:23 <Zannick> that'd be good, too
17:26:12 <alefury> http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/20/the-many-faces-of-roguelikes-seven-days-of-rogue/
17:26:21 <alefury> not crawl related, but roguelikes getting some press is always nice
17:26:28 <HangedMan> is there anything about D and Lair that doesn't start this or is this even more inexplicable then I thought
17:27:56 <st_> they aren't considered branch ends
17:28:19 <st_> because at some point in time there was nothing special about lair:$ and D:27
17:28:26 <st_> same with crypt:5
17:28:33 <HangedMan> ah, makes sense
17:32:25 <Cheibriados> Vaults placed on floors directly above branch ends will replace their shafts with other traps (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5464) by Claws
17:48:16 <MarvinPA> i thought that was intentional
17:48:42 <HangedMan> then it's inconsistent!
17:48:56 <HangedMan> fix it the other way around, make that happen to D, Lair, and crypt
17:49:05 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r3151f273aea8 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.reST: Manual fixes from the wiki (parts relevant to 0.10).
17:49:05 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * re3006af6d648 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.reST: Sync manual from the wiki.
17:49:06 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r6cbeb8154550 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h food.cc mutation.cc player.cc player.h): Don't call a type the same name as a variable.
17:49:06 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * rbaf01e1ad097 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h player.h): Remove an unused and pointless accessor.
17:49:06 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r190271d45a27 10/crawl-ref/source/ (food.cc food.h misc.cc player.cc): Hide some literal hunger values.
17:49:07 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r49100ffb5b7a 10/crawl-ref/ (10 files in 3 dirs): A new option: auto_drop_chunks.
17:49:07 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r6f1d64bf985f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (food.cc food.h items.cc): Drop unneeded chunks when the pack is full, too.
17:50:15 <alefury> MarvinPA: arent shafts randomized now?
17:50:30 <nfogravity1> i like the sound of "auto_drop_chunks"
17:50:30 <alefury> so even if it was intentional at some point, it is now obsolete
17:51:32 <MarvinPA> hmm? why would that make it obsolete?
17:52:52 <HangedMan> the intention being "no shafting to rune/orb"?
17:53:18 <HangedMan> flight card and minefield both still work for the same purpose so that has double standards
17:53:37 <MarvinPA> that wasn't the intention, it's way older than that
17:53:49 <HangedMan> so then what is it
17:53:50 <alefury> kilobyte: does auto_drop_chunks work with autopickup_no_burden? or rather, how do they interact?
17:54:42 <alefury> MarvinPA: older than runes/orbs?
17:55:04 <MarvinPA> what?
17:55:12 <alefury> youre saying stuff, and i dont get it
17:55:18 <kilobyte> alefury: yes, it will obey the current burden threshold
17:55:53 <alefury> i mean, if picking something up would be prevented by no_burden, but burdening can be avoided by dropping rotten chunks, is the thing getting picked up or not?
17:56:05 <MarvinPA> shafts being abusable to shaft into specific spots was only possible between like 0.6 and 0.8 or something
17:56:19 <MarvinPA> that's what i thought you were referring to with "aren't shafts randomised now", at least
17:56:30 <kilobyte> alefury: although if you were burdened before, it will try to keep you at burdened (avoiding only overloaded) rather than dropping everything not needed
17:56:31 <alefury> i was, i didnt now there was a starting version for that
17:57:16 <alefury> kilobyte: cool :)
17:57:30 <alefury> also, s/now/know
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18:04:23 <st_> it's pretty entertaining getting shafted into vaults and the player will be able to deal with it by that point so I think it should be possible in all branches
18:04:50 <alefury> it is...
18:05:08 <st_> I mean branch end vaults, like we were talking about earlier
18:05:09 <alefury> unless they have no_rtele or no_tele
18:05:20 <HangedMan> oh yeah, those tags
18:06:06 <HangedMan> they don't work at all for &L because they're post-generation or something and I can't get any encompass vaults to appear reliably at all so it screws up testing
18:06:26 <HangedMan> either that or they don't work in any situation but I highly doubt that
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18:06:59 <st_> are you testing with wizmode teleport?
18:07:13 <HangedMan> teleport traps and rings of teleportation
18:07:39 <MarvinPA_> // When generating levels, don't place a shaft on the level immediately above the bottom of a branch if that branch is significantly more dangerous than normal.
18:07:54 <MarvinPA_> that's the code comment, so definitely not a bug
18:07:56 <HangedMan> how generous and kind
18:07:58 <MarvinPA_> could be changed anyway i guess
18:08:04 <MarvinPA_> not sure
18:08:30 <HangedMan> where is that?
18:08:42 <MarvinPA_> traps.cc
18:09:08 <MarvinPA_> 1751
18:09:38 <HangedMan> wow, I didn't even know you could disarm alarm traps in zotdef
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18:18:20 <kilobyte> the royal jelly not creating spawn on the death blow is a bug, right?
18:19:01 <galehar> kilobyte: yes, I agree
18:19:18 <galehar> also, yay for auto_drop_chunks!
18:19:22 <galehar> <3
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18:22:20 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r1730436e0252 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix royal jelly's fragments not spawning on the death blow.
18:22:21 <CIA-62> 03kilobyte * r7dd5c5871da0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (30 files): Make another bunch of functions static or deleted.
18:24:14 <st_> so if you stab it do you get 230HP worth of jellies?
18:24:34 <galehar> while writing the note on #5463, I remembered a talk on the forum about pan lords being a bit too easy to lure away from their rune.
18:24:47 <galehar> maybe patrolling monsters should keep closer to their patrolling point
18:25:46 <galehar> hey, hatches and shafts should respect no_tele_into, right?
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18:27:01 <kilobyte> galehar: obviously
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18:30:59 <HangedMan> changing patrolling will require notable amounts of vault review
18:35:19 <galehar> Why? some vault designs depend on monsters being easy to lure away?
18:36:34 <HangedMan> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4435
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18:37:12 <HangedMan> although that really just might mean to make patrolling monsters wander a bit when hit with out-of-los corner shots
18:40:59 <galehar> they either attack you or go back to their patrolling point
18:41:18 <galehar> #4435 looks like a bug caused by a trap
18:41:43 <HangedMan> did that ever get resolved? the issue wasn't
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18:42:14 <galehar> i don't know
18:44:18 <CIA-62> 03galehar * r9971d4f9223f 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Hatches and shafts respect no_rtele_into.
18:46:19 <kilobyte> that's a pretty important fix, D:1 often has disconnected areas that rely on no_rtele_into
18:47:07 <HangedMan> does that also fix aks leaving the abyss and entering enclosed entry vault areas?
18:47:15 <HangedMan> or rather has that been fixed
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18:55:58 <HangedMan> if darkgray is to be avoided so often due to it being the same as default out-of-los, why are potions being given it
18:56:11 <Wensley> oh what
18:56:16 <Wensley> I was going to make ghost moths darkgrey
18:56:26 <due> no darkgrey monsters
18:56:32 <Wensley> :(((((((((((
18:56:41 <HangedMan> and no darkgray walls, I was told
18:56:42 <due> that's just a standard rule, soz
18:56:49 <Wensley> how about just gray
18:56:50 <due> darkgray walls are okay in vaults, kinda
18:56:50 <HangedMan> unless portal vault
18:56:53 <Wensley> justgray
18:56:57 <Wensley> darkwhite
18:57:03 <due> Wensley: do blue or magenta
18:57:04 <HangedMan> office moth
18:57:09 <Wensley> ghost moths are already magenta
18:57:11 <Wensley> but
18:57:15 <Wensley> magenta is the best color
18:57:16 <Zannick> i've seen some unfortunate players have darkgrey show up as black
18:57:19 <HangedMan> works nine to five
18:57:19 <Wensley> and I need it for at least three other moths
18:57:28 <due> Wensley: lol sucks to be u
18:57:31 <HangedMan> wensley, use elemental colours
18:57:32 <Zannick> which exhibits usually as "You see here:                 ."
18:57:33 <Wensley> due: ;_;
18:57:53 <Zannick> (eg. skeleton or inedible remains)
18:58:02 <HangedMan> magenta is a weird colour, it is used for both translocations and transmutations
18:58:28 <HangedMan> while floor_nerves is also somewhat used for that in abyss, mnoleg's, and cigovuti's
18:58:30 <due> magenta is an /awesome/ colour
18:58:38 <due> because it's /fucking magenta/!
18:58:41 <due> god i love magenta. <3
18:58:43 <HangedMan> but what alligence does it have
18:58:51 <HangedMan> whose side is it on
18:59:04 <due> FR: magenta crawl
18:59:07 <due> everything is shades of magenta
18:59:52 <HangedMan> I may end up colouring most of chaossprint magenta, but I can't figure out what would be a good colour scheme for chaos in general
19:01:33 <HangedMan> ...although I think evilmike won't approve of a zot trap evocations room even in a sprint and when it's the sprint_ii eyeball room with butterflies
19:01:41 <kilobyte> due: 13M6e13o6w13?
19:02:20 * Zannick sees an elf wizard, orc sorcerer, purple worm, and a scroll covered in pink paint
19:02:29 <Zannick> not sure about the M :P
19:02:59 <HangedMan> mummy something
19:03:18 <HangedMan> the w is a tentacle tip, presumably
19:03:44 <HangedMan> ...it is the weirdest thing in the world to use dowsing in tiles and see an eldritch tentacle built out of orbs of fire and a giant leech
19:04:31 <Zannick> oh, right
19:04:36 * kilobyte wonders how due took Arachne being repainted from 13H to 11H.
19:05:12 <Zannick> H is a strange symbol for a spider
19:05:23 <HangedMan> hybrid
19:05:54 <HangedMan> H is a strange symbol for clustering together manticores and arachne
19:06:13 <Zannick> manticores, minotaurs, ...
19:06:19 <Zannick> ?? H
19:06:20 <Henzell> h[1/1]: hell hound > war dog > warg > wolf > hound > jackal
19:06:21 <Zannick> >.<
19:06:36 <HangedMan> griffons, hippogriffs
19:06:43 <HangedMan> this was discussed earlier today apparently
19:06:50 <Zannick> huh
19:06:51 <kilobyte> minotaurs, harpies, half-ostrichs half-platypi
19:07:14 <Zannick> that last one...
19:07:18 <Zannick> what? :{
19:07:22 <Zannick> :P *
19:07:32 <HangedMan> it's a pan lord, clearly
19:08:26 <Zannick> hm, hell hog is missing from that h list
19:08:31 <Zannick> as well as hog
19:09:05 <kilobyte> and holy swine
19:09:11 <kilobyte> which, somehow, don't fly
19:09:20 <Zannick> i could believe that
19:09:28 <HangedMan> and felid
19:09:37 <kilobyte> also doesn't fly
19:09:57 <Zannick> ...huh, there aren't many cat-family monsters, are there?
19:09:58 <HangedMan> generally assumed to not, yes
19:10:25 <HangedMan> there are devwiki pages involving tree-lurking pumas or something
19:10:27 <Zannick> compared to the dogs
19:10:43 <HangedMan> also no summon cat
19:10:51 <Zannick> war cat
19:11:03 <HangedMan> war felid
19:11:18 <Zannick> war horse
19:11:44 <HangedMan> war hippo
19:12:00 <HangedMan> what wars are fought in crawl besides holy ones
19:12:13 <Zannick> war lorocyproca
19:13:08 <HangedMan> !vault shadow_demon
19:13:37 <Henzell> Lines pasted to http://paste.scsys.co.uk/188001
19:14:48 <HangedMan> there's only one invisible demon now, and kobold demonologists can't summon them or the previously 3 and invisible shadow demon
19:15:11 <HangedMan> (because this is the first anybody should think of when reminded of lorocyprocas)
19:15:27 <due> kilobyte: I didn't notice ;)
19:16:07 <HangedMan> if I !rc due am I going to find every monster is set to be some kind of magenta
19:16:38 <due> HangedMan: yes
19:17:07 <HangedMan> how do you distinguish five different monsters
19:17:42 <HangedMan> the sewer entry vault with secret doors and glass is astoundingly stupid
19:18:59 <Wensley> |amethyst: are you doing work on the logview thing? seems like it's not working from my home computer
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20:08:24 <CIA-62> 03MarvinPA * re83d96fc03ab 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix an incorrect glyph in monster_shover
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20:30:18 <|amethyst> Wensley:  what browser?
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20:31:48 <|amethyst> oh, I see, "Get log" doesn't work in FF
20:34:45 <|amethyst> Just needed to add a 'return false' to the onsubmit
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21:07:19 <evilmike> hmm, I see someone died to a food vault because of the spider buff. Didn't expect a tarantella to actually be used in one (my fault for not checking)
21:08:12 <evilmike> regarding the buffed spiders themselves, right now you can still tabspam your way through the whole branch if you have any AC and rPois. Reverting the HD/damage buffs and doubling the number of enemies won't help that
21:08:24 <evilmike> (I know this was brought up hours ago, but I wasn't here)
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21:14:42 <evilmike> that said, I'm not against hordes of enemies, as long as they matter
21:16:50 <Eronarn> h
21:16:54 <evilmike> oh, that reminds me (if anyone is here): is there a reason webs and nets let you keep your EV? Seems a bit weird for you to be perfectly capable of dodging stuff while you're caught in something
21:16:59 <evilmike> there is the matter of balance, of course
21:17:02 <Eronarn> hordes of spdiers are great fun
21:17:05 <Eronarn> just ask adom
21:17:18 <Eronarn> evilmike: see also constriction
21:20:08 <evilmike> yeah constriction is weird too. at least I can imagine you wriggling around with the monster attached to you, though (and the constriction over time ignores EV)
21:21:38 <Eronarn> generally i think it's bad that those effects all have different... effects
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21:22:21 <evilmike> so do you thing nets and webs ought to keep your EV?
21:22:29 <evilmike> Part of what bugs me is they set your SH to 0
21:23:22 <Wensley> if anything it should be the opposite
21:23:31 <Eronarn> evilmike: i think the assumption with nets is that you're like, totally caught
21:23:34 <Eronarn> which is bad imo
21:23:41 <Eronarn> you can have a net on just an arm or something
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21:24:41 <Eronarn> a large penalty, but not zeroing, seems right
21:24:55 <evilmike> halve, maybe?
21:25:22 <Eronarn> i like the idea of half, but i'd be worried about balance
21:25:30 <Eronarn> 10 EV -> 5 EV vs. 40 EV -> 20 EV
21:25:56 <Eronarn> -5 EV or something might be fairer at the high end
21:26:29 <evilmike> Just doesn't make much sense to me to have 35 ev (extremely high) while you're stuck in a giant spiderweb
21:26:43 <Wensley> evilmike: did you read discussion of what moth of vuln is going to be doing unless someone tells me otherwise
21:26:54 <Eronarn> well, you could be only partially stuck. i don't think it makes sense for you to be totally entangled
21:26:58 <Wensley> (it is actually the moth of suppression but nobody knows it by that name)
21:27:04 <Eronarn> i would see that as being like, paralyzed
21:27:07 <evilmike> Wensley: I'm still working through today's log
21:27:11 <Wensley> kk
21:28:01 <Eronarn> say, you stumble in, and are trying to brush the webs away, and your shield arm gets caught
21:28:23 <Eronarn> we don't want to simulate that level of realism, so a large penalty to several things instead of no ability to do one thing
21:29:05 <evilmike> yeah, all webs need to do the same thing, otherwise it's too complicated
21:29:29 <evilmike> also, they behave the same as nets (there's also some messages about being "caught in a net" with webs... seem to be in 0.10 too)
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21:55:32 <HousePet> Is there an autosign command for the wiki?
21:55:53 <evilmike> there's a button along the top of the edit box
21:56:25 <HousePet> Ah ha :)
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22:32:28 <CIA-62> 03evilmike * r55b7dcd36142 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-spll.h): Don't let orb spiders "flee" at low HP.
22:32:38 <CIA-62> 03evilmike * r9aec8169e122 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-spll.h: Make jumping spiders slightly less jumpy.
22:38:19 <CIA-62> 03evilmike * ra8edef433f47 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (builder/food.des variable/float.des): Replace buffed spiders in some early vaults.
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22:42:18 <CIA-62> 03evilmike * rc9ec6dd69fa5 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Increase wolf spider depth in Lair and D.
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23:38:37 <Cheibriados> Cheibriados piety change messages are wrong (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5465) by HousePet
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23:49:44 <gomer> Out of curiosity, are there any plans for more transmutation forms that don't meld weapon?
23:50:15 <gomer> Statue and lichform are the only weapon-friendly transformations.