00:42:06 03evilmike * r026221718d25 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hells.des: Give vestibule_mu a higher weight. 00:42:07 03evilmike * r68596cf07286 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Use the correct orientation for the Spider ending vault. 00:42:07 03evilmike * rb53bf9aeffb0 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: Fewer special rooms in Spider. 01:03:50 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-582-gb53bf9a (32) 01:20:33 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-582-gb53bf9a 01:22:36 Randart armour stays unnamed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5447) by cerebovssquire 01:23:40 -!- valrus_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:55 -!- gnsh has quit [] 01:48:24 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:08 -!- [1]capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:15 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:51:18 -!- [1]capablanca is now known as mikee_ 02:05:50 hm, would it be possible for merfolk to have a passive 'submerge' ability whenever they're in deep water? like invis but it only works if they don't move 02:06:06 the problem is "not moving" 02:10:50 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:10:58 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:51 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:10 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:40:13 fr give mf constriction when in deep water 03:25:25 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:26:04 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:00 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 04:12:55 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:39 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:18 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07:01 Ragdoll (L2 MuCK) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 70) (D:1) 05:07:07 say it aint so 05:07:18 <|amethyst> !lm Ragdoll crash -log 05:07:18 58. Ragdoll, XL2 MuCK, T:4440 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Ragdoll/crash-Ragdoll-20120318-100657.txt 05:08:15 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:05 all my progress, lost 05:10:11 <|amethyst> stupid useless crash dumps 05:11:04 XOM effect: segmentation fault 05:22:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:16 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:55 anti-scumming bugs 06:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-582-gb53bf9a 06:21:03 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:19 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:55 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:38:58 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 06:47:17 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:54 xomscumming (L1 MuCK) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 70) (D:1) 07:11:56 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:09 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:13:11 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 07:23:31 My CAO game crashes consistently on some squares in Orc:2. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5448) by pantaril 07:40:51 still no way to get those CAO save files :( 07:50:02 uh isn't there a thing where you can save them aside built into DGL? 07:50:03 rax: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:50:08 !messages 07:50:08 (1/1) minqmay said (4d 11h 11m 51s ago): one more CAO sprint save to delete: mine. maybe the delete save thing in advanced options should let you delete your sprint/zotdef save - it lets you back those up after all 07:50:32 I thiiink I got that, but *checks* 07:52:10 !tell minqmay I just saw your message about a CAO sprint save --- it looks like it's okay, but let me know if it's not and I will look again? 07:52:10 rax: sorry, I didn't understand what you said. My point is that players post bugs with link to their save files and I can't download them to investigate. 07:52:11 rax: OK, I'll let minqmay know. 07:52:29 galehar: What are the links they are giving you? 07:52:42 I know my log-in works for it 07:52:44 https://crawl.akrasiac.org/saves/dumps/pantaril-crawl10-120318-0806.tar.bz2 07:52:52 But I think greensnark might have put that in there manually for me? 07:52:59 Unless it is still linked against dev-accounts. 07:53:06 But I think that might be CDO. 07:53:19 Yeah it just requires being added to something 07:53:43 galehar: If you asked me for access to that instead of just complaining I could give it to you. :P Let me figure out where that's done 07:54:11 rax: sorry. But I did asked you a while ago and you were relunctant... 07:54:32 You asked me for root on the server 07:54:36 that is so different 07:54:48 oh, maybe I did. 07:55:02 to update CAO when bugs are fixed 07:55:26 nobody ever asks me for root! :( 07:55:32 anyway, having access to save file would be great. Could you give it to me rax? Please? :) 07:56:00 galehar: Sure, ->personals 07:56:22 "root begging, it's the new op begging! and the new ircop/o:line begging!" 07:56:54 give root to your bnc server pl0x!! 07:57:08 things i do not run: bnc server :)) 07:57:21 aww. :/ 07:57:52 things i also do not run but would actually consider: crawl server 07:58:11 but i am nowhere near as awesome as napking and The Rax so most likely I would fail 08:01:21 due: since you're around. Do you know which script to run to calculate average XP value of a level? 08:01:48 um 08:02:12 Actually, no, I don't 08:02:16 one of them does a cool chart though 08:02:35 (I don't even have /git/ installed on my new laptop O_o. I feel dirty.) 08:02:55 I tried genmap.lua, but haven't been able to make it work (haven't tried very hard though) 08:03:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:23 hm 08:14:00 -!- varmin has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:14:00 -!- Chousuke has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 08:14:00 -!- alefury has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- phyphor has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- res has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- galehar has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- Dixbert has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- Sequell has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- MakMorn has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- ogsus has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- rawrmage has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- blabber has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- xnavy has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- SamB_XP has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- CIA-62 has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- syllogism has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- Xiberia has quit [*.net *.split] 08:14:00 -!- Ragdoll has quit [*.net *.split] 08:15:00 *** Looking up your hostname... 08:20:21 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:21 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:20:31 -!- vadatajs has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:44 Typo after killing things in dk_yredelemnul_ordeal (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5449) by chris 08:42:11 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 08:42:49 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:45:26 03galehar * rf38fa1f50712 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Fix mimics annoucement causing crash (#5448). 08:45:52 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:31 randarts seem to be dumping out @general_appearance@ from time to time, now 09:13:03 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:18 books also dump @book_adjective@ and the likes 09:18:18 03MarvinPA * r17577c8c68ca 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/yredelemnul_ordeal.des: Fix a typo in dk_yredelemnul_ordeal 09:21:17 while little chunks of text are being dealt with, delete line 279/280 of dat/des/branches/pan.des , saying mnoleg 'll have space for malign gateway *if* he gets it is outdated since he has it 09:32:07 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:37 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:55 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-584-g17577c8 (32) 10:07:09 Fleeing monsters with polearms still attack if in attack range. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5450) by Ragdoll 10:13:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:32 Missing unidentified artefact description (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5451) by nht 10:41:41 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:49 @general appearance@ war axe (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5452) by FatBoy 11:00:02 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:29 -!- Chousuke_ is now known as Chousuke 11:13:09 -!- FaMott has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:27 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 11:17:29 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:53 starting to think that some recent was broken entirely in the descriptions base 11:27:13 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:18 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:34:20 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: ponytime \o/] 11:37:48 |amethyst: why "orb spiders" rather than "orb weavers"? 11:38:23 doesn't make much sense without the reference 11:39:22 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:53:43 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5453) by FatBoy 11:54:25 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:29 so I've started a translation thread on the forum, and mageykun answers this: I can do the American translation! I'll begin pruning all those extra u's immediately. 12:15:35 bloody yankees 12:15:39 hahaha 12:16:18 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:31 +1 12:20:19 galehar, are you working on the whole database thing the descriptions have for the translation project alongside or just solely the translations themselves? 12:20:56 people seem to be getting a lot of buggy results from some recent commit changing dat/descript/ or dat/database/ or whatever 12:21:29 I'm not working on anything 12:21:40 kilobyte has been doing the coding 12:21:44 oh 12:21:47 !seen kilobyte 12:21:47 I last saw kilobyte at Sat Mar 17 22:50:33 2012 UTC (18h 31m 14s ago) saying when used in some sentence, yeah, but not as description keys on ##crawl-dev. 12:21:48 I'm just recruiting translators 12:21:54 fair enough 12:29:09 <|amethyst> Wensley: kilobyte was wary about using a pun as the name because of translation; and I wanted to avoid misleading players ("oh, this one must create new webs") 12:29:16 Display known items command (\) not working (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5454) by Lantier 12:29:23 bleh! 12:29:28 puns are the lifeblood 12:29:33 <|amethyst> of Nethack 12:29:55 "orb spider" is so plain and boring 12:30:14 doesn't tell the player any more than "orb weaver" does 12:30:38 * HangedMan grabs some popcorn 12:30:51 orb weaver does sound cooler 12:31:19 I distinctly remember proposing the translation project years ago when galehar and kilobyte told me it was a bad idea and I was like lolwut 12:31:26 <|amethyst> I wouldn't object to "orb weaver" too much 12:32:21 I believe that both galehar and kilobyte's argument amounted to "english is just better, why would we ever want to translate it?" 12:32:28 <|amethyst> I think it's nowhere near the pun level as, say, "pure chewing satisfaction" 12:32:32 <|amethyst> s/as/of/ 12:32:37 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:24 if the objection is that new players will think that it weaves webs, then let's think of a better name than "orb spider" that also avoids those connotations 12:36:48 i don't see why they'd think it weaves webs when they find one and it shoots an ood at them 12:37:05 it's pretty self-explanatory 12:37:09 <|amethyst> heh 12:37:30 and yeah orb weaver seems fine to me, we already have tarantella so why not 12:37:35 MarvinPA: +1 12:37:39 unruining crawl forever 12:37:49 orb reaver, sorry 12:38:24 <|amethyst> One pun per monster name is quite enough 12:46:29 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:40 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:38 You shout for attention! 13:02:39 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 13:02:39 _You hear something buggy! 13:02:52 <|amethyst> yep, in mantis already 13:03:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:20 <|amethyst> hm 13:19:32 <|amethyst> I can't reproduce the __SHOUT problem 13:19:44 <|amethyst> I can reproduce the @general appearance@ problem 13:23:18 <|amethyst> FaMott: are you setting language=something ? 13:23:33 |amethyst, I don't think I ever messed around with that 13:23:37 !rc hyperfamott 13:23:38 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.10/HyperFaMott.rc 13:23:48 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 13:23:49 did any of the recent commit add that to rcs? 13:23:51 yeah, no changes 13:24:01 The orc shouts! 13:24:01 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 13:24:01 You hear something buggy! 13:24:03 and again 13:24:05 <|amethyst> no, RCs shouldn't have been changed 13:24:17 <|amethyst> does it happen every time an orc shouts? 13:24:25 03dolorous * r864fcb9acc9c 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Fix apparent typo in database lookups. 13:25:07 naw , last time it was with a centaur 13:25:34 <|amethyst> I mean, do they shout normally sometimes? 13:25:54 <|amethyst> I think dolorous might have fixed it 13:26:16 they do , hm 13:26:39 <|amethyst> dolorous fixed @general appearance@ at least 13:27:18 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:48 -!- blackpenguin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:56 bug in current trunk - playing as Gandelf on CDO. it says: "_Found a @armour appearance@ leather armour." 13:32:26 pretty sure they talked about that earlier 13:32:33 guessing they will fix it fairly soon 13:32:38 <|amethyst> blackpenguin: think that was *just* fixed 13:32:39 fine :) 13:32:45 <|amethyst> eight minutes ago :) 13:35:07 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:44 <|amethyst> I was able to reproduce the __SHOUT message just once with the old version 13:48:11 <|amethyst> it would help if my test char didn't have stealth 27 :) 13:48:40 <|amethyst> though it still seems difficult to reproduce 13:50:09 it is mildly annoying to throw up a wizmode character to have 14 in all stats and then manually put down stuff to make sure it stays at the same power level through multiple tests and isn't stealthy since few players are 13:50:28 then again I guess that's what that morgue adaptor thing is for 13:51:07 <|amethyst> okay, I have a way to reproduce 13:51:15 <|amethyst> it seems to be only out-of-sight shouts 13:52:02 although asking for silly wizmode features like "detect all items" or "stop gaining experience" might work 13:55:12 just make a save of the character and then back it up 13:55:32 hangedman -- yeah, that's why it's there 13:55:47 i'm still working on it 13:55:58 it would be nice to have a flag that you could set to also import a weapon, but that's harder 13:56:09 -!- qqryq has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:17 <|amethyst> yes, it looks like dolorous's commit fixed the __SHOUT thing too 13:56:33 <|amethyst> it was the same code path in _getWeightedString as the @general_appearance@ bug 13:57:09 must have been why I was getting those crashes yesterday aswell 13:57:44 <|amethyst> !lm st_ crash -log 13:57:46 26. clouded, XL25 DETm, T:127695 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/clouded/crash-clouded-20120315-144102.txt 13:57:55 it was offline 13:58:21 after the game was done it said something about not being able to find files in dat/descript 13:59:54 It was a scroll of immolation. 13:59:54 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 13:59:54 You hear something buggy! 13:59:54 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 13:59:54 You hear something buggy! 13:59:55 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 13:59:57 You hear something buggy! 14:00:01 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 14:00:03 You hear something buggy! You hear a bark! 14:00:05 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 14:00:07 You hear something buggy! 14:00:09 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 14:00:11 You hear something buggy! You hear a bark! 14:00:13 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 14:00:15 You hear something buggy! 14:00:17 No shout entry for default shout type '__SHOUT' 14:00:19 You hear something buggy! 14:00:20 O.o 14:00:21 GUYS 14:00:23 I REPEATED THE BUG. 14:00:49 <|amethyst> yeah, it happens only for things out of sight, because "__SHOUT seen" does have a key, but "__SHOUT unseen" does not (and it was the fallback to plain "__SHOUT" that was failing) 14:00:58 I see. 14:01:27 <|amethyst> And dolorous's patch does fix it 14:06:21 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:11:51 <|amethyst> why would you play 0.10 now that the tournament is over? 14:11:53 <|amethyst> doh 14:12:38 -!- blackpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:12:48 <|amethyst> So, there's the issue that X[] saves the level but not the player... that's still around, right? 14:20:55 autoexplore moves on without finishing exploring room (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5455) by simon1tan 14:22:59 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:45 -!- Adeon is now known as Bdeon 14:28:46 -!- magistern has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:55 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:20 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:45:31 orb weaver <3 14:54:28 here's something my boyfriend and i noticed yesterday when playing with the enemy hp colour thing -- item heaps actually don't display correctly 14:55:15 if you put a lightred item on top of a pile, it displays a darkgrey (=black+brighten) glyph on a red background 14:55:43 -!- MakMorn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:45 <|amethyst> you can't do lightred background 14:56:14 that was my thought 14:56:26 but if you set friend_brand = hi:lightred that works fine 14:57:14 <|amethyst> it does? 14:57:17 yes 14:57:24 <|amethyst> I get a dark red background 14:57:47 hi:lightred works on the default terminal in debian, and in windows 14:58:25 <|amethyst> and looks different from hi:red ? 14:58:28 yes 14:58:38 want a screenshot? 14:58:40 <|amethyst> default terminal in debian is gnome-terminal isn't it? 14:58:48 yes, almost surely 14:59:17 <|amethyst> that's what I'm using 14:59:23 i'll try it again, hang on 14:59:28 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:40 -!- MakMorn has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:03 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:18 so hi:lighred->dark red? 15:00:24 no 15:00:31 well, maybe for |amethyst 15:00:44 but it should be a lightred background 15:01:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:08 that shouldn't even be possible afaik 15:03:20 <|amethyst> if (bg & COLFLAG_CURSES_BRIGHTEN) flags |= A_BLINK; 15:03:31 yeah i was looking at that last night 15:03:49 <|amethyst> oh 15:03:55 <|amethyst> and in xterm, yes, that makes them blink 15:05:05 huh i guess not in gnome-terminal. but it works fine in putty 15:05:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:05:09 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:05:19 <|amethyst> not much that can be done there 15:05:40 travel through time and beat up some people 15:05:45 <|amethyst> well, other than support for 256-colour terminals 15:05:55 that was my thought, but it took me a long long time to figure out that it wasn't fixable 15:07:20 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:15 curses = :( 15:09:45 just checking, wanted to make sure that that was in fact the reason 15:10:17 <|amethyst> terminals = :( I mean, not the concept in general, just the fact that we're still dealing with 1970s technology 15:11:07 <|amethyst> and I may be wrong, but I doubt there's a terminfo flag you can query to find out whether blink does bold background 15:11:16 <|amethyst> since no terminals in the 70s or 80s did that 15:11:18 at least in dos 15:11:30 <|amethyst> (unless you count the PC as a terminal) 15:13:06 <|amethyst> my favourite thing is the colour-pair stuff in curses 15:13:13 it's so fucking confusing 15:13:16 the way that we do it 15:13:19 <|amethyst> how long has it been since anyone's used an HP terminal 15:13:38 the low bit is background when it outputs, but stores brand flags in the game 15:13:43 what the utter fucking shit 15:14:26 because we can't afford to send more than one byte of data for a colour? jesus 15:17:12 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:42 -!- Bdeon is now known as Adeon 15:40:23 03galehar * ra2ea3db14201 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Greatly reduce the chance for fleeing monsters to use reaching (#5450). 15:43:40 |amethyst: check out the wrapper i wrote for the color pair stuff in my 7drl: https://github.com/Eronarn/Hellmouth/blob/master/define.py 15:44:35 it's ten billionty times better than having to think about them ever 15:47:27 orb spider (06s) | Speed: 12 (spell: 150%) | HD: 5 | Health: 22-43 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 220 | Sp: destruction orb (8d7), cantrip. 15:47:27 %?? orb spider 15:52:36 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:54:16 03|amethyst * r564f68cfa2b1 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Center the cursor correctly with messages_at_top. 15:55:54 <|amethyst> HangedMan: it seems to work with morgues 15:55:55 <|amethyst> doh 16:01:22 |amethyst, I forgot to mention in the report, the cursor bug happens in the 0.10 branch as well 16:04:07 <|amethyst> I'm not sure about the policy for minor fixes in stable branches 16:04:17 <|amethyst> especially since there's a workaround 16:04:31 Yeah, figured 16:04:53 I actually now prefer the fake cursor anyway, it's the correct color :) 16:05:29 And it seemed to be the default in the recent versions, I had been using an old config 16:05:37 |amethyst: the policy is to backport bugfixes 16:05:48 the fact that we are often too lazy to do it isn't a policy 16:06:17 and usually we only publish one or 2 minor versions 16:07:06 but it would be better if stable branch were maintained, bugfixed and updated all the way until the next major version 16:12:35 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:37 point of curiousity, why don't CHANCE: 100% vaults place all the time in spider's nest 16:13:15 <|amethyst> are they being vetoed? 16:13:32 they're being placed eventually 16:18:49 <|amethyst> yeah, but maybe they're being vetoed the first few times they're tried 16:19:20 <|amethyst> I'm not as familiar as some about level-building, though 16:20:19 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * r9c336d1bb37e 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Do not crash when placing web traps. 16:20:19 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * r235fde148c77 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Move the cursor even for muted prompts. 16:20:19 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rff428a62186a 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Center the cursor correctly with messages_at_top. 16:21:16 * HangedMan shrugs 16:21:24 place: seems to be working for testing purposes though 16:22:03 <|amethyst> I think with PLACE: the level will be vetoed if it couldn't be placed 16:22:06 <|amethyst> rather than just the vault 16:23:33 <|amethyst> is this a vault or a minivault? 16:23:44 ORIENT: west 16:24:07 <|amethyst> hm, I wouldn't think it could fail at placing the vault 16:24:24 well it's pretty unusually shaped 16:24:33 http://pastebin.com/ZGzVGiKr 16:24:44 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:35 <|amethyst> is this intended to divide the level in half? 16:27:06 <|amethyst> my guess, and you can verify with a fulldebug build, is that it's vetoed most of the time because it disrupts the level's continuity 16:27:36 hmm 16:27:39 <|amethyst> if that's the case, you can set TAGS: transparent 16:27:46 I shall try 16:27:51 <|amethyst> then the vault will not be assumed impassable 16:28:24 <|amethyst> (and, since there appears to be an actual path, you should be fine) 16:30:36 peh, the transparent tag doesn't seem to make using chance instead of place for testing purposes work much better 16:34:11 and now I've had an outright crash with transparent and place! 16:34:43 <|amethyst> doing a fulldebug build to test 16:34:49 <|amethyst> it will take a little while 16:35:25 <|amethyst> btw, any suggestions for the orb spider vault? 16:35:29 ASSERT(old_level.depth != -1) in 'files.cc' at line 1189 failed 16:35:33 <|amethyst> including removing it 16:35:55 the webs are too thick at the beginning, prompting people to lure them out of the vault entirely 16:35:59 <|amethyst> that's when you tried to reload the save I'm guessing? 16:36:02 yes 16:36:12 <|amethyst> that's what happens when it crashes during level-gen 16:36:16 nice 16:37:46 if I wanted to stay cruel I'd say remove the first two orb spiders and replace them with a tarantella or jumping spider, push those back a good bit, widen the entrance because this is spider, and throw in a few zot traps 16:37:59 <|amethyst> only one spider 16:38:05 oh, pah 16:38:43 the vault is pretty harmless with just one as anything but a test of their behaviour in a space where you can't get to easily just put them out of los to let them approach 16:38:55 (which is already a pretty silly behaviour) 16:39:55 I could model an idea of a way to make it more of a *vault* vault, I guess, once I manage to make my own vault work 16:43:09 <|amethyst> Now that they're randomly generated I'm tempted to just remove the vault 16:43:26 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:43:26 it is pretty basic as stands 16:43:55 although I am combining several ideas alongside orb spiders now for another vault, so not a total waste 16:47:05 also having zero luck getting &# to work 16:48:35 <|amethyst> it looks for the filename you specify relative to . , not the morgue directory 16:48:41 oh, pah 16:48:54 <|amethyst> (and there seems to be no error message if it doesn't find the file) 16:49:26 how clear and helpful 16:54:21 03|amethyst * r7f658d8598f7 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/spider.des: Remove the orb spider test vault. 16:58:21 emperor scorpion (15s) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 54-97 | AC/EV: 18/8 | Damage: 3004(medium poison), 11, 11 | Res: 06magic(56) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 1375. 16:58:21 %?? emperor scorpion 17:00:05 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 17:05:50 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:17 !seen Wensley 17:06:17 I last saw Wensley at Sun Mar 18 21:17:43 2012 UTC (48m 34s ago) saying which is to say fight club on ##crawl. 17:06:59 it would be nice if fightclub wasn't in 0.10-a, but I forget who has to be annoyed to update varmin 17:07:38 <|amethyst> if it's for testing as opposed to group entertainment, you can always run arena locally :) 17:08:41 local arena, where you either don't get hp bars on individual monsters if you have too many or where the tiles message/effects display is misaligned to do horribly buggy things 17:08:55 s|buggy|ugly| 17:15:29 <|amethyst> HangedMan: so if it's chance: 100% but no place I get a bunch of: 17:15:34 <|amethyst> Bad vault place: (25,0) dim (29,44); Bad vault place: (0,20) dim (44,29) 17:15:45 <|amethyst> it's trying to place the vault in the empty space after generating the level 17:16:15 ...huh. 17:16:41 <|amethyst> but with PLACE: your map gets placed first 17:17:06 maybe instead of doing stupid things with empty spaces in vault definition I should just randomize, considering what layout_delve puts in there anyway 17:19:07 -!- Dixbert has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:37 -!- Dixbert has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:08 braverobin (L3 MiFi) ASSERT(next_line >= n) in 'message.cc' at line 449 failed. (D:2) 17:22:52 braverobin (L3 MiFi) ASSERT(next_line >= n) in 'message.cc' at line 449 failed. (D:2) 17:26:30 braverobin (L3 MiFi) ASSERT(next_line >= n) in 'message.cc' at line 449 failed. (D:2) 17:26:37 braverobin (L3 MiFi) ASSERT(next_line >= n) in 'message.cc' at line 449 failed. (D:2) 17:28:27 <|amethyst> that's message_window::scroll() 17:28:42 <|amethyst> !lm braverobin crash -log 17:28:42 6. braverobin, XL3 MiFi, T:1493 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/braverobin/crash-braverobin-20120318-222624.txt 17:31:27 <|amethyst> !rc braverobin 17:31:28 Can't find rc for braverobin. 17:32:47 -!- HangedMan has quit [] 17:34:06 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 17:36:35 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:03 <|amethyst> Hm... I can produce a different crash on demand by making my message area too small 17:43:12 <|amethyst> but I haven't been able to reproduce that one yet 17:46:04 <|amethyst> oh, I missed the message_colour thing 17:50:34 <|amethyst> there we go 17:51:04 <|amethyst> it's the combination of message_colour = mute:. and clear_messages = true 18:03:55 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:34 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:23 03|amethyst * r75defd1af13e 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Don't crash when reading a line with mute:. and clear_messages . 18:20:16 03|amethyst 07stone_soup-0.10 * rdefaabba7cd9 10/crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Don't crash when reading a line with mute:. and clear_messages . 18:33:54 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:22 03|amethyst * r46155c524e53 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Redraw the screen between cards in Deal Four. 18:56:17 03galehar * r65b6ec8f469a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dungeon.cc files.cc stairs.cc): Better randomization of shafts and hatches destinations. 19:05:19 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:33 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:14 evilmike: pong 19:12:40 hi wensely. just felt like nagging you about moths 19:13:02 evilmike: did you see the spirited discussion on moths today in ##crawl 19:13:16 no, even when I'm in that channel I usually ignore it 19:14:04 the consensus, I think, is that moths are great and that I'm a genius and that's really all there is to say on the matter 19:14:12 but I could be biased 19:14:17 ah, that sounds like ##crawl 19:14:34 1learn add wensley 19:14:49 I found something cool when toying with area stuff: 19:14:50 if (a & APROP_SANCTUARY_2) 19:14:51 return AREA_SANCTUARY; 19:14:51 if (a & APROP_SANCTUARY_2) 19:14:51 return AREA_SANCTUARY; 19:14:53 why would someone do this 19:15:42 <|amethyst> I think that's a typo 19:15:56 evilmike: will probably harness some of this spider-momentum and do the moth of vuln sometime this week, I was thinking of restricting its effects to rPois and instead of negating or zeroing your rPois, it *inverts* your rPois, since it's nontrivial to find a source of rPois 19:16:09 I am reminded of the inconsistent walls in sprint_mu leading to the comment "If we all hope real hard maybe the dungeon won't fall ontop of us" 19:16:13 it would do this for all monsters in the aura 19:16:18 so it would make all spiders rP+ 19:16:20 |amethyst: my guess is it's related to APROP_SANCTUARY_1 not being used anywhere any more 19:16:22 spider form, best spell for spider's nest 19:16:27 HangedMan: yes 19:16:32 I haven't actually dug deep enough to learn the origin of this though 19:16:38 since I am pretty sure spider form is the only source of player rP- 19:17:01 however I think this is awesome and not abusable at all 19:17:08 immunity to webs, a little speed, venom brand to hurt other spiders, rPois+ around certain moths 19:17:23 oh man is spider form immune to webs, that would be so cool 19:17:33 Wensley: don't worry about abuse. this doesn't even come close to approaching silent spectres 19:17:36 HangedMan: well the venom brand wouldn't be hurting other spiders while in the aura 19:18:05 evilmike: basically the idea is to have a well-defined effect that both buffs monsters and generally debuffs the player 19:18:09 anyway, the more I think about this monster idea the more I like it, and it's great if you plan on making it. 19:18:16 I do 19:18:21 it really should not be hard 19:18:25 <|amethyst> Wensley: yes, player spider from is immune to webs 19:18:31 ^ coolcool 19:18:32 staying on the edge of the aura, I mean, or something 19:18:37 spider has a big problem right now where with good defenses and rPois, you are almost invincible. orb spiders are a good addition because of this 19:18:52 we really need a better name for those 19:19:35 <|amethyst> actually, that code has said AREA_SANCTUARY_2 as long as it has existed 19:19:43 |amethyst: fun 19:19:50 I wonder what sanctuary 1 is supposed to be 19:19:53 good defenses, see invis or some general way of daeling with ghost moths, non-pain melee for bloody crawlers, clarity for unlucky tarantella moments 19:20:05 <|amethyst> s/AREA/APROP/ 19:20:21 my visit to the most recent spider's nest was actually quite nice until it ended in death 19:20:33 ending in death is good 19:20:41 evilmike: I'll try to have moth of vuln prototype branch by tuesday 19:20:53 Wensley: cool 19:20:53 today my eyes hurt too much from reading for ten hours 19:21:58 already trying to make some spider vaults, although I think I have to revamp one now that emperor scorpions and demonic crawlers aren't entirely fodder 19:22:50 HangedMan: don't get too eager yet, things might change a lot. the branch ending right now is only slightly better than a placeholder 19:23:06 if you do want to make vaults, I suggest focusing more on the layout right now 19:23:15 and unfortunately a vault with jumping spiders/tarantellas/orb spiders for side-stepping/staggering into zot traps has too much to work at once 19:24:04 well two are pretty small but I've already had connectivity issues with another 19:25:01 probably should ween off using giant chunks of empty space inside non-standard layouts 19:32:24 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:36:55 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:41:30 Wensley: any more ideas about what the monster should be named? "Vulnerability" is wrong, given the current idea. Moth of inversion? 19:42:28 if that's used I hope the tilemaker resists submitting an upside moth 19:42:55 you mean upside down moth 19:43:21 yes, keyboard keeps intermittedly dying out on me and I am stupid 19:46:09 is the moth of vulnerability's idea written up anywhere, or just here 19:47:14 "basically the idea is to have a well-defined effect that both buffs monsters and generally debuffs" -- this one? 19:47:28 it's fairly well defined 19:47:32 i really don't like the moth idea... inverting it, anyways 19:47:57 the inversion thing is a bit new, the old idea was just to make you more vulnerable to poison 19:48:03 yes, that's fine 19:48:16 but inverting is just going to be very hard to communicate + make any kind of flavor sense 19:48:25 however, i do think there's room for a moth or two that actively buff in some way 19:48:36 i dunno, it's a power sink 19:48:38 i like that 19:48:47 moth of dampening 19:49:01 the one problem I see with inversion moth is that if neutral stays neutral, one ought to take off their rPois source whenever they see the moth 19:49:08 what I like is if it buffs enemies and debuffs the player to. that seems fairly interesting and should make meph less of a kill-everything spell 19:49:18 what i dont like is that it might make you want to swap rpois too much 19:49:25 well, easy for ring or possibly form, not for armour 19:49:26 evilmike: i think it can do that without having the (de)buffs be from the same effect 19:52:11 one possibility, if you want one effect that does both, is 'reflect poison', where poison effects have a chance to rebound and hit the player 19:52:37 it's pretty clear how that would work / how you'd print messages for it 19:52:50 not so with an ability that makes spiders resist poison and players not resist it... 19:53:11 wensley: pang 19:54:17 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:11 an aura of reflect poison doesn't sound any more or less flavour-potent or explainable then an aura of poison resistance inversion 19:55:16 Eronarn: well, I think the most important part is a monster that debuffs you by making you not resist poison, while in it's area of effect. That seems easy enough to communicate - "You feel vulnerable to poison" 19:55:21 all the other stuff is less easy to communicate though 19:55:32 alternately: does it really need to address spiders being pois vulnerable? if that's such a problem, it seems like it would be a problem any time one of these moths isn't on screen 19:55:54 The wolf spider looks resilient. 19:57:13 buffing monsters is less important. I think wensley should just go ahead with his idea though, and then it can be adjusted after that 19:57:16 what about the moth giving off a green light that disables your poison res items, dispels resist poison, but doesn't touch other rpois sources 19:57:49 it could be based around interfering with poison magic 19:57:53 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:04 -!- HangedMan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:06 like a flat failure rate while it's on screen 19:58:15 interesting 19:58:31 failure rate of what? 19:58:37 read the backlog 19:58:40 any spell with the poison school 19:59:03 rather than buff the spiders, double nerf the player 19:59:06 screw you, summon scorpions? 19:59:11 and cure poison 19:59:16 much easier to communicate because you have a status area, more lines to work with, etc. 19:59:53 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:01 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:14 it'd need a name... interference? 20:00:20 sounds viable 20:01:01 moth of meddling 20:01:10 good name 20:01:31 doesn't change anybody walking in with a venom branded weapon 20:01:55 although it's nice to get that brand to have furthered use 20:02:17 I'm going to go get dinner, hopefully we can have a prototype of this soon and then see where to go from there (since wensley is volunteering, it's up to him what the first version looks like) 20:02:34 as for all of the ideas talked about here I'll make sure they make it to the mailing list 20:02:41 my first version will be a moth that gifts you oka gifts every turn unless your name is eronarn 20:03:29 animal skins, everywhere, nemelexite heaven 20:03:30 HangedMan_: it could turn off all poison items and all poison magic, if we wanted to give it a really dramatic effect 20:03:39 inversion has more potential in my opinion, if it applied to all resists 20:03:54 st_: that just sounds like a really bad idea for a non-xom effect 20:04:05 how do you even explain it 20:04:23 mmm, delicious rElec- 20:04:24 like, what about mummies, they're rF- because they're made of bandages 20:05:01 -!- qqryq has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:28 it vaguely makes sense if it affects your spells/items, but at least innate stuff it makes no sense 20:05:49 but unless it's a total reversal, you have to calculate out what stuff would/wouldn't be affected 20:05:56 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:00 I agree with that, it could get convoluted 20:06:37 what, and a pair of magic rings makes dry, ancient body-wrappings flame retardent? 20:06:47 basically, it is a *problem* that every monster in this branch is so susceptible to one thing and at the same time so impotent against a single pip of a resist. something needs to address these issues, whether or not it's this moth. there's a reason that everything in tomb isn't rF- 20:07:07 a more limited effect might be cool... what about a hex that temporarily curses an item and turns its positive properties into negative ones (without touching negative properties) 20:07:48 demonic crawlers and ghost moths are still around for somebody walking in with rPois 20:08:11 rPois and poison available, rather 20:08:36 Wensley: dire wolf spiders 20:08:46 -!- HangedMan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:58 two-headed wolf spider 20:09:07 or was that bears 20:09:56 what about having moths be rather common? have 1-2 different moth types per spider band 20:10:27 if all the moths have interesting effects, they're the caster equivalents of the branch (less raw damage output than casters in other branches, but more debuffs/buffs/etc.) 20:10:44 yeah I've been thinking about rarities and it depends on the design 20:10:47 would rather dilute the effect of each moth, I remembering reading in the logs about making moths appear about as common as crypt curse skulls 20:11:19 mostly I am just not in love with any of the proposals for vuln moth but the inversion one is one that I can live with 20:11:32 Wensley: don't like shutting off items? 20:11:35 again, if we addressed these issues in other ways than vuln moth would not be necessary 20:11:53 well, rPois for spiders and friends could go 20:11:57 er, -rPois 20:11:59 there are still insects of interest regardless of moths: af_confuse is very dangerous without clarity, there are rare rock worms and potentially rolling boulder beetles whenever those exist 20:12:03 Eronarn: not if it's a hex, really. if it was just an aura of magic item suppression, maybe 20:12:16 Wensley: oh, yes, an aura for the moth 20:12:25 and poison magic blocked in the aura too 20:12:55 it would be a good prototype for other school-specific 'antimagic' effects 20:13:08 like the lead statue proposed a million years ago 20:13:29 I already found one game of the most recent spider's nest more interesting then snake pit without more then one moth type encountered or hellspider or any of the rest of those 20:14:00 Eronarn: that could work but I think that the "block poison magic" and "suppress magical item effects" would need to come from different sourcces 20:14:22 how about we just give spider the mummies-in-tomb treatment and not make spiders rP- anymore? player spider form would still be rP- because hey fuck those guys amirite 20:14:31 Wensley: blocks all poison magic in the area... which is poison magic spells and poison magic items, but not innate poison attacks 20:14:55 i think this would be pretty intuitive 20:14:58 Eronarn: I could live with that being some sort of green crystal statue 20:15:03 but hm, kiting 20:15:05 if it's in your inventory or your spell list, and says poison, it doesn't work now 20:15:06 naga in spider pit 20:15:21 Wensley: kiting it to other levels, you mean? 20:15:37 green draconian in spider nest why did I say pit 20:16:00 no using stairs as a flag for all moths, simple 20:16:27 Eronarn: oh so it would be a full-level effect until the statue is destroyed? if one was guaranteed on all spider levels then that would be okay, but kiting upstairs might still be a minor issue 20:16:29 imo give non-ghost moths AI to stay a bit away from the player 20:16:34 unless the statues were unkillable 20:16:44 yeah I was thinking about giving them that 20:16:51 Wensley: i think it would work best on a moth as a halo like thing with range 6 or so 20:17:10 are you suggesting that the same moth get both poison suppression and magic item suppression 20:17:16 seems a bit overloaded 20:17:18 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:34 Wensley: it would just suppress all poison magic - not poison resistance, but perhaps items that give it 20:17:40 nagas and such would still have rPois 20:17:43 hmm 20:17:54 god abilities that use poison would still work 20:18:00 rod of venom would not 20:18:13 would your spells just fizzle 20:18:28 silent spectre for venom mages 20:18:38 could be blocked from casting, could be a flat failure chance, could be increased miscast chance 20:18:41