00:00:56 because, you know, flies 00:01:07 <|amethyst> heh 00:01:33 makes some sense for nets -- they in turn are tied to an item 00:01:47 which would be destroyed by lava 00:03:44 kilobyte: for spell ideas, I think the best are either "cloud" type effects (think swamp drakes, catoblepae) and iood, or something similar to it. Those effects encourage you to move around, and being caught in a web would make them much nastier (and more intersting) 00:04:00 It's hard to imagine *how* a spider can do any of this, but it could just be some weird magical spider 00:06:16 evilmike: make spiderblood green, call it "ichor", and make it so that whenever your square is full of ichor you have a chance of fumbling your attack because it is all slippery 00:06:24 hmm maybe that's just terrible 00:06:36 <|amethyst> so spiders leave shallow water when they die? :) 00:07:10 I really just like the idea of an adventurer ice skating around on spiderblood 00:08:42 only you could go from "let's make spiders drop shallow water" to "let's add ice skating" in a single thought 00:09:29 since there's a half-human unique caster around, please tell me your ideas unfit for spiders too 00:10:18 6:09 though, I'd better sleep 00:10:20 kilobyte: hmm, which unique is that? 00:10:24 drawing a blank here 00:10:43 <|amethyst> probably this "Arachne" that kilobyte mentioned earlier 00:10:50 ah 00:10:58 Arachne, something from an old pile of ideas we talked with jpeg several years ago 00:11:03 cool 00:11:31 this one didn't make it, and may turn out too boring again 00:11:43 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:26 but then, in a place full of rPois- poisonous insect and nothing else the threshold is pretty damn low :p 00:13:40 only real concern I have is the concept of half-spider half-human being overdone in so many fantasy games 00:13:50 <|amethyst> hm, Mara has the "weaving" theme 00:13:54 overwhelmingly female, too :p 00:14:17 kilobyte: make it half spider the other way around 00:14:18 human torso, spider head 00:14:20 |amethyst: only as a verb for casting illusions 00:15:02 evilmike: ie, human with many eyes? Quite... pointless, I'e say. 00:15:44 well, I'm also thinking of pedipalps and large fangs 00:17:33 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:27 03dolorous * re37f9184e4ec 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ability.txt: Remove unneeded spacing. 00:18:27 03dolorous * rf0023c3bc739 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: For now, tweak silver statue description to match the orange: "brittle-looking". 00:25:41 -!- xnavy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:58 -!- gnsh has quit [] 00:38:07 Gauss the Anemomancer (L16 TeAE) (D:17) 00:40:41 <|amethyst> hm... having spiders with ranged attacks try to maintain LOS/2 distance seems to work 00:41:06 <|amethyst> this would make centaurs deadly 00:42:55 I could see special ranged enemies getting this ability. giving it to centaurs would hugely affect early game balance (in a bad way) though 00:43:31 right now a d:3 centaur is extremely dangerous but you can sometimes handle it... but usually this is because you can get it into melee range 00:44:02 (also, I think it's somewhat interesting when a ranged enemy encourages you to rush out into the open, as centaurs do) 00:46:59 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:00 I look at it like this: right now you have two main strategies to deal with centaurs. 1. lure them to you (such as with fog or a corner). 2. rush towards them so you can get in melee range. If they were to kite you, you'd only have option 1. So even though the AI gains something, there are fewer tactical choices 00:48:07 <|amethyst> yeah 00:48:15 <|amethyst> Making it a flag 00:52:55 <|amethyst> I could imagine a "spriggan sniper" with this flag 00:54:02 usually it's enough to give a ranged character blinking 00:54:14 see nessos 00:54:19 how well do you think it would work on normal speed enemies? 00:54:30 could give it to deep elf master archers (as if they aren't already nasty enough) 00:54:34 <|amethyst> That I'm not sure about, will have to do some testing 00:55:04 Wensley: nessos actually uses a special blink spell, it's not just random blinking 00:55:17 there are like 4 or 5 versions of monster blink 00:55:21 I'm also not ultra thrilled at the prospect of tactically retreating ranged characters 00:55:29 s/characters/enemies 00:55:45 I don't like it if it's used a lot 00:55:50 yeah, planned retreats are a character/unique thing 00:56:00 the AI has numbers on its side already 00:56:03 I'm imagining something that is used sparingly, as a "signature ability" for some rare monster 00:56:05 all the fun of chasing fleeing monsters with all the fun of dying 00:56:21 it could be okay, but only sparingly 00:56:26 <|amethyst> and an IOOD spider would be the perfect monster for it I think 00:56:48 then again having your own ranged attack helps too 00:56:51 how about a monster whose ranged attack has such an enormous kickback that it actually pushes them one square in the opposite direction 00:56:54 I'd want to make that (still theoretical) spider something like speed 12, btw 00:56:56 that would be more interesting, perhaps 00:57:08 if a monster casts iood too quickly, you get too many orb collisions 00:57:25 <|amethyst> you'd need cantrips for balance 00:57:40 yeah 00:57:49 or give it something like a breath timeout 00:57:51 <|amethyst> spider spells:orb_of_destruction is.... insane 00:57:55 I'm also a little worried about it casting the spell and then walking into the iood. is speed 15 enough for that? 00:58:04 that's part of what I mean by orb collisions 00:58:25 <|amethyst> I didn't see that happen 00:58:35 evilmike: kickback! it launches the orb and is pushed back one square. problem solved :) 00:58:53 also make it a speed 8 monster 00:58:58 problem supersolved 00:59:01 Gauss the Anemomancer (L17 TeAE) (Snake:2) 00:59:06 spiders are all fast monsters though 00:59:18 if it's speed 15, it will close too fast to let the ood get full bonus from long range 00:59:20 Wensley, I imagine a giant spider with a shitton of HP and a really slow 'firing rate' 00:59:29 that moves slowly. 00:59:30 Wensley: that's what the special AI is for 00:59:32 <|amethyst> Wensley: that's why I'm tweaking the AI 00:59:37 icic 00:59:47 this would be a rather rare enemy 00:59:48 <|amethyst> the support is already there (_set_firing_pos()) 00:59:58 hm 00:59:58 (kickback!!!! solves every problem) 00:59:58 what if it stopped for a turn before it shot? 01:00:05 <|amethyst> it's just that currently it is used only when the foe is just out of site 01:00:10 <|amethyst> s/site/sight/ 01:00:15 like, it'd move around a lot but always stop for a turn before shooting 01:00:41 that way if the character gets hit it's his fault. 01:00:45 eeviac the Carver (L12 DrWn) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1401 failed on turn 18858. (Lair:6) 01:00:55 "The Killermabob braces itself!" 01:02:56 oh man what if said monster came with other spiders to hold you in while it shot you? 01:03:29 <|amethyst> with a normal speed enemy it doesn't seem to make a lot of difference 01:03:36 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-541-gf0023c3 (32) 01:03:48 <|amethyst> the DEMA prefers to shoot you rather than move away 01:04:05 DEMA? 01:04:12 <|amethyst> deep elf master archer 01:04:15 oh 01:04:26 <|amethyst> actually 01:04:34 <|amethyst> it works decently on spellcasters 01:05:05 that's good. this spider would basically be a caster 01:05:09 <|amethyst> yeah 01:05:18 <|amethyst> and a DEMA will occasionally move away 01:05:41 <|amethyst> I guess spells take more energy than firing bows? haven't looked 01:06:45 @??deep elf master archer 01:06:45 deep elf master archer (15e) | Speed: 10 (msl: 60%) | HD: 15 | Health: 66-85 | AC/EV: 0/15 | Damage: 25, 5 | Res: 06magic(100) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1510. 01:06:53 <|amethyst> oh 01:06:56 <|amethyst> that would do it 01:08:06 <|amethyst> hm, yes, a full-speed spider can in fact run into its own orb 01:08:29 oh god that would be hilarious 01:08:37 <|amethyst> one's not enough to kill it usually 01:08:37 but at the same time a failing of the AI 01:09:08 <|amethyst> @?? spider spells:orb_of_destruction 01:09:08 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 46 | Sp: destruction orb (8d4). 01:09:26 ah 01:09:35 I was thinking 8d9 would be better 01:09:45 <|amethyst> @?? spider hd:6 spells:orb_of_destruction 01:09:45 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 6 | Health: 20-46 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(24) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 242 | Sp: destruction orb (8d8). 01:09:50 <|amethyst> @?? spider hd:8 spells:orb_of_destruction 01:09:51 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 29-57 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 500 | Sp: destruction orb (8d9). 01:10:31 <|amethyst> it's like an endless stream of missiles 01:10:36 haha 01:10:37 its attack should have the blink brand 01:10:49 well, you do need to pad out the spell list 01:10:56 <|amethyst> yeah 01:13:28 if you are in spider form when the ood hits you it should make your ichor spray everywhere and then all the spiders fumble their attacks and begin sliding around 01:14:38 <|amethyst> lol 01:14:47 <|amethyst> you're really into spider gore, huh? 01:14:49 evilmike: what about an immobile "egg sac" monster that just constantly spawns spiders until it is destroyed 01:14:53 he's more into spider ice skating 01:15:01 so many legs 01:15:03 so graceful 01:15:11 how about a constriction trap 01:15:13 Wensley: this sounds pretty easy to implement if you just add a summon spiders spell, and make it a statue 01:15:17 like nets but better 01:15:25 Wensley: but I am unsure of how interesting this would actually be 01:15:31 yeah 01:15:37 Wensley: in general its hard to use immobile monsters well, outside of vaults 01:15:43 mostly I just need more spiders 01:15:50 not a single square in LOS left unoccupied 01:16:11 immobile monsters control space in an interesting way 01:16:25 even like eels 01:16:33 so what is the plan for the orb weaver when other spiders get in the way 01:16:41 will its oods plow through multiple enemies 01:18:21 <_> soon we'll have a spider that shoots IOODs that spawn spiders when it connects 01:18:38 and then those spiders shoot spider-spawning IOODs 01:19:14 i'm surprised wensley hasnt proposed a catoblepas spider 01:20:04 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-541-gf0023c3 01:22:12 <|amethyst> I think I did that earlier 01:22:22 <|amethyst> as an alternative to the IOOD spider 01:23:32 <|amethyst> !fight spider spells:orb_of_destruction v spriggan spells:orb_of_destruction 01:23:55 <|amethyst> yeah, boring without the AI tweak :) 01:24:08 03|amethyst * r5e25050bc6d1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-behv.cc mon-flags.h): Add a monster class flag for maintaining distance. 01:24:27 "the centaur flag" 01:24:49 <|amethyst> as discussed, centaurs shouldn't get it 01:26:31 <|amethyst> what about liches? 01:27:36 i'm thinking that would have a huge effect on zot 01:27:41 (well, zot 5) 01:30:30 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:30:34 <|amethyst> evilmike: nice 01:30:35 03evilmike * re4966e2eb21d 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: A bunch of changes to arachnids. 01:31:53 weird that cia only reported that one, I just pushed 4 commits 01:32:45 03evilmike * r6f8a2e782c72 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Tweak Spider Nest monster list. 01:33:04 i guess cia is drunk 01:34:21 03evilmike * rfd68692ba476 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des: Increase depth of einodemon_crawler_minivault. 01:34:59 03evilmike * rb702147c6023 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mgen_enum.h mon-place.cc): Have some spiders spawn in groups. 01:36:30 <|amethyst> what would be a good colour for an orb spider? 01:36:52 yellow? 01:36:57 lemme check GIS 01:37:01 <|amethyst> taken by scorpion 01:37:37 I was imagining it as magenta 01:37:42 red 01:37:52 <|amethyst> red is redback 01:37:52 red is taken, lightred is available though 01:38:08 <|amethyst> magenta fits IOOD better I think 01:38:15 <|amethyst> it's that or (dark) blue 01:38:50 http://www.ozanimals.com/image/albums/australia/Spider/S00550-001.jpg 01:39:24 Dixbert: there are a huge number of different orb weaver spiders and they come in pretty much every colour imaginable 01:39:35 yeah 01:39:43 that's an example of a lightred one 01:40:11 I've never seen a magenta spider, myself, but I assume there is one somewhere 01:40:23 http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/1219340644_a74a29a6eb.jpg 01:40:28 this is pretty pinkish 01:40:43 I mean, if this thing exists, anything can: http://biologos.org/uploads/static-content/icky_spider.jpg 01:41:57 <|amethyst> oh hai 01:48:52 so... 0.10.1 was tagged, but the download isn't on the cdo page yet: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads 01:49:01 It's on sourceforge though. I dont know who has access to the cdo page 02:10:12 03evilmike * rd1fb231a72ad 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-pick.cc: Swap the rarity of (plain) spiders and scorpions in Spider. 02:54:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:56:54 -!- FaMott is now known as Nessos 02:57:55 -!- Nessos is now known as FaMott 03:04:42 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:58 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:51 fr scorpions' nest 03:16:22 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:28:31 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:44 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:24 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 04:19:43 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:25 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:34 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:37 Unable to view Item Knowledge (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5441) by Arcturus 05:03:42 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:09 firefox is weird 05:15:31 after loading the site with the ##crawl-dev logs, the first one i click on is loaded in the browser 05:15:37 after that, it tries to save them 05:15:58 unless i click on a link, "inspect element", escape. then i can open one in the browser again 05:16:11 s/click/right click/ 05:16:30 any idea what the fuck is happening there? 05:20:47 <|amethyst> I saw the same problem and can't figure it out 05:21:48 @??spider spells:orb_of_destruction 05:21:48 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 46 | Sp: destruction orb (8d4). 05:22:18 @??spider hd:8 spells:orb_of_destruction 05:22:19 spider (10s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 29-57 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 500 | Sp: destruction orb (8d9). 05:24:54 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 05:26:18 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:26:31 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:36:43 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:33 <|amethyst> well, I've got an orb spider patch 05:52:02 <|amethyst> it's not randomly spawned, just in a vault 05:54:13 <|amethyst> I guess I might as well commit it... will give other the chance to test and improve it 05:55:50 orb spider? :D 05:56:15 <|amethyst> evilmike's idea 05:56:19 <|amethyst> a spider with IOOD 05:56:47 oh nice 05:56:49 <|amethyst> and I added an AI tweak so it will try to stay at range rather than letting you close in 05:58:22 03|amethyst * r170b34091c2c 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc: Berserk creatures don't try to maintain range. 05:58:22 03|amethyst * r47d22d425f7b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Put per-monster per-spell message keys before per-spell. 05:58:22 03|amethyst * re3ff97a1afad 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 6 dirs): New monster: orb spider. 06:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-547-gd1fb231 06:06:53 <|amethyst> !tell evilmike Orb spiders are in, take a look and make whatever revisions you feel appropriate 06:06:54 |amethyst: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 06:19:37 unknown monster: "orb spider" 06:19:37 %??orb spider 06:19:51 hm, guess its not *that* fast to update 06:21:17 <|amethyst> weird... monster isn't seeing it even after a recompile 06:23:05 -!- phyphor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:08 <|amethyst> oh, it didn't rebuild monster-main.o 06:23:24 orb spider (06s) | Speed: 12 (spell: 150%) | HD: 5 | Health: 22-43 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 504(medium poison) | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 220 | Sp: destruction orb (8d7), cantrip. 06:23:24 <|amethyst> %??orb spider 06:23:53 kind of low xp maybe 06:23:54 did you make clean? 06:24:04 also, no health 06:24:11 <|amethyst> due: I did in the crawl directory but not the monster directory 06:24:49 <|amethyst> so it's entirely my fault 06:25:26 ah 06:25:34 make clean in the monster directory will make clean int he crawl directory too 06:25:37 it will also update crawl, etc 06:25:40 <|amethyst> yeah 06:36:45 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:58 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:52:01 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:35 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:47:02 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:01 |amethyst: can you give them imb instead of cantrip 07:49:03 cantrip is awful 07:49:59 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:04 ttats: cantrip, can't rip 07:50:07 can trip? 07:50:24 @??orb guardian 07:50:24 Orb Guardian (06X) | Speed: 14 | HD: 15 | Health: 59-103 | AC/EV: 13/13 | Damage: 45 | Flags: see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown | XP: 3899. 07:50:29 good, they are the same color 07:50:45 -!- Chousuke_ is now known as Chousuke 07:51:03 what's up with the spell 150% by the way? why not 120% 08:02:19 on spider branch: arachnotrons. 08:02:59 we could call them "electric spider golems". 08:04:54 -!- phyphor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:40 -!- phyphor has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:03 Caethan the Faith Healer (L12 OpIE) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1614 failed on turn 26809. (Lair:7) 08:26:30 git log --grep '\bnerf\(s\|ed\|ing\|\)\b' | sed -ne '/^Author:/ { s/ <.*//; p }' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr 08:27:13 sorry, wrong window :) 08:27:16 -!- instar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:16 Any ideas why I would be getting a build error in database.cc for the sqlite3_threadsafe() assert? 08:39:35 It isn't that the assert is failing, but rather that the method is undefined 08:40:35 I am using the system sqlite headers, not the contrib/ version 08:41:16 what system are you using? 08:41:23 debian 08:42:04 the distribution is a few years old, so it's possible it isn't the cutting edge sqlite3 lib 08:42:29 looking at the header, it seems to be sqlite 3.3.8 08:42:47 might not be able to help you, i'm on arch here - i'll try compiling to see if it's your problem or everyone's 08:54:15 according to google, the system sqlite is built threadsafe, so I guess my options are to disable the assert or use a newer sqlite lib 08:56:00 instar: i would bet on upgrading but you don't run into too many sqlite asserts in any case, so that probably wouldn't be terrible 08:56:09 but i would upgrade to be sure 08:58:37 it's funny, the sqldbm.cc has a define ANCIENT_SQLITE that lets it build using the non- _v2 sqlite interface 08:58:42 so yes, it did build fine for me 09:03:19 this code looks strange to me 09:04:00 it spins up 8 threads just to call the database init() in parallel, then immediately joins them all 09:06:41 MarvinPA: +1 to let evoc give MP 09:07:29 instar, that's to initialize the databases in parallel, obviously 09:09:32 I see what it it does, I just don't understand why 09:10:16 are they slow to initialize? Wouldn't that be limited by I/O anyway, in which case threading isn't going to appreciably speed it up? 09:30:53 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-550-ge3ff97a (32) 09:31:02 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:48 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:16:10 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:31:18 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:18 haha oh my... I've changed zigsprint shoals rooms a bit and they are pretty brutal... 10:33:35 water and kraken and sirens 10:34:14 haha 10:52:43 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:00 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 11:00:02 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:01 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:03 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:37 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:11:22 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:56 <|amethyst> Eronarn: I think giving them IMB as a second spell would make them far too deadly 11:14:19 <|amethyst> Eronarn: as for the 150%, it came from trying to tweak the speed with which it can cast back-to-back orbs... I tried 200%, but that made it too easy to catch up with, since it also takes that long to cantrip 11:16:22 |amethyst: what about making stuff not cast orbs if there's an orb near them in the direction they would be casting? 11:16:30 this would also stop things blowing up their own orbs 11:25:40 <|amethyst> yeah, that would be good for all IOOD casters 11:26:08 |amethyst: IMB would water down IOOD, which is a net nerf 11:32:14 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:52 <|amethyst> Hm 11:35:05 <|amethyst> Just tested with both spells, and maybe it's not too deadly that way. IMB fits the flavour in one way, since it's an orb. On the other hand, it misses the "dodging into webs" aspect 11:35:57 <|amethyst> I wouldn't object to it getting IMB, but someone else will have to come up with casting text for it 11:36:36 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:36 golden eyes should get the maintain_range flag 11:54:13 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:15 1. stack a deck with four Orb cards, 2. abandon Nemelex (shuffling decks) 3. rejoin 4. Deal Four on that silly orb spider 11:58:02 <|amethyst> hm 11:59:08 (so many point-blank explosions are of course fatal) 11:59:51 not sure if shuffling removes the marked tag, too 12:00:16 but hey, it's sure a stylish way to go :) 12:00:41 I wished I died to a removed MONS_SUBTRACTOR_SNAKE 12:01:00 !log * killer=subtractor snake 12:01:00 No games for * (killer=subtractor snake). 12:01:26 !log * killer=Terpsichore 12:01:26 2. LuckyNed, XL16 OgHu, T:36164: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/LuckyNed/morgue-LuckyNed-20110330-023806.txt 12:01:33 as in Vanquished Creatures - removed MONS_SUBTRACTOR_SNAKE 12:01:54 <|amethyst> kilobyte: Nemelex's shuffle-all-decks does remove marking 12:02:13 hmm right, a reason that AXED_MON macro may not be the best idea... 12:02:45 <|amethyst> It would be possible to leave a "has ever been stacked" property on the deck and prevent Deal Four (and maybe piety gain) from such decks 12:10:15 -!- instar has left ##crawl-dev 12:13:08 I've gotten a message saying "Invalid brand on item blowgun of the Assassin, annulling." while testing zigsprint 12:14:21 http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=19689718b380a4767d592b63c45a534579c7979d broke it? 12:14:31 ??blowgun of the Assassin 12:14:32 blowgun of the assassin[1/1]: the +6 blowgun of the Assassin {+Inv Stlth+}. Shows up as a tiny blowgun. 12:16:02 I'm also randomly getting crashes after death about not being able to find stuff in /dat/descript/ (but the files are there...) 12:16:39 what stuff? 12:16:43 and using restart_after_game or whatever the option is 12:16:49 do you have a dump? 12:17:09 lemme see. It has said multiple different files 12:19:22 I do have a big fat commit affecting these files, but it's not pushed yet 12:20:00 (with working item desc translations, woohoo!) 12:20:03 <|amethyst> wait, blowgun of the Assassin doesn't have a brand does it? 12:20:21 it does not, so I'm not sure what the complaint is about 12:20:33 hrm, it asks for brand 217 12:20:52 which happens to be UNRAND_BLOWGUN_ASSASSIN 12:21:07 ie, the validation code must be using item.special instead of get_weapon_ego_type() 12:21:23 <|amethyst> I wonder which path that is 12:22:00 ... and, it is 12:22:35 <|amethyst> the randart generation uses proprt[ARTP_BRAND] 12:22:45 <|amethyst> everything else uses .special 12:22:58 <|amethyst> But really I guess unrands shouldn't be checked at all 12:23:38 kilobyte: I think this is a crash log for the descript thing: http://pastebin.com/ZHpe9LLA 12:23:47 possibly, yeah... I already fixed the check 12:23:54 lemme add it to ./crawl --test too 12:24:56 <|amethyst> how does one trigger the message 12:25:15 <|amethyst> &%blowgun unrand:blowgun_of_the_assassin doesn't give me a warning 12:25:21 &% blowgun good_item 12:25:26 and hold ` for a bit 12:25:40 <|amethyst> aha 12:27:51 also, it looks like blowguns never generate with a brand, unless they're randarts when it's always speed 12:28:42 my validity check allows normal, protection, speed, penetration, evasion 12:29:02 if (atype == WPN_BLOWGUN 12:29:02 && proprt[ARTP_BRAND] != SPWPN_SPEED) 12:29:02 { 12:29:02 proprt[ARTP_BRAND] = SPWPN_NORMAL; 12:29:02 } 12:29:06 kinda weird that penetration blowguns are acceptable when penetration doesn't work on any branded missile 12:34:28 03|amethyst * re426ada4d42c 10/crawl-ref/source/decks.cc: Make decks un-dealable if they have ever been stacked. 12:35:46 hmm, the first blowgun I created was vetoed 72 times until it finally rolled speed, then it got accepted 12:36:19 <|amethyst> it didn't roll "no brand" in those 72 tries? 12:36:30 <|amethyst> !tell galehar saw your mail re using a delay in deal four. That sounds reasonable, but sadly the delay code is a bit beyond me at the moment 12:36:31 |amethyst: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:37:30 |amethyst: it did every of that 72 times 12:37:53 but, artefact.cc randart_is_bad() has the following check: 12:37:55 // Weapons must have a brand and at least one other property. 12:37:55 if (item.base_type == OBJ_WEAPONS 12:37:55 && (proprt[ARTP_BRAND] == SPWPN_NORMAL 12:37:55 || _artefact_num_props(proprt) < 2)) 12:39:00 so we need to either remove this check, or ensure a proper brand on blowguns 12:39:58 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:58 |amethyst: you say penetration doesn't work on blowguns, right? 12:40:45 <|amethyst> HangedMan said that 12:40:49 <|amethyst> I didn't try 12:40:59 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:41:43 penetration only works on unbranded missiles, unbranded needles don't show up and would be worthless anyway 12:41:44 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:56 <|amethyst> yeah, verified 12:42:33 if it worked for blowguns it would be neat but also then make it inconsistent with crossbows 12:42:53 and then blah blah blah comparsion between vorpal and speed and penetration and possibly a damage hit etc etc etc 12:44:21 right, I checked -- not a single needle brand worked with a penetrating launcher 12:47:15 hrm, randarts are not allowed to have the evasion brand as well (not sure why) 12:47:58 I think it was a hold-over from when randarts would have random ac/ev bonuses 12:48:22 ah, makes sense 12:48:39 so I wonder what brands should randart blowguns be allowed to 12:48:50 and whether to follow the rule that all randarts must have a brand 12:49:25 currently it's speed, speed, speed or if you're lucky, speed 12:50:31 possible: evasion, (with an one-line change) electrocution, (with more coding) draining 12:50:44 <|amethyst> electrocution wouldn't work either, would it? 12:50:58 (with more coding) chaos, too 12:51:39 should, it's a non-multiplier brand. It is disabled because two-branded missiles are allowed only for Nessos. 12:51:55 could be way too good, of course 12:52:09 <|amethyst> yeah, I think I'd prefer the non-missile-affecting brands 12:52:14 <|amethyst> maybe reaping 12:52:42 reaping would have to give the monster an enchantment to let poison count as reaping damage 12:52:47 <|amethyst> hm 12:53:01 doable of course, in the (with more coding) bin 12:55:53 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:46 Mountain Dwarves still mentioned in Tables of Aptitudes (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5442) by JamesBond007 13:00:46 <|amethyst> minmay suggests making "steal food" say exactly what food was eaten (like spores do). objections? 13:01:16 the "look up if your bug was already reported" rule needs to be more emphasized 13:01:27 |amethyst: I have an objection to you being lazy and not having already coded and pushed it! :p 13:01:33 (or anyone else among us) 13:02:33 <|amethyst> oh I see 13:03:07 <|amethyst> the problem is that _expose_invent_to_element doesn't get the monster, so the message would have to be passive voice 13:07:36 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:08:23 03kilobyte * r5bf3b39bd057 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Fix unrand enums being tested for brand validity. 13:08:23 03kilobyte * rc6875deaa84c 10/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc: Very rarely allow non-artefact blowguns to get the evasion brand. 13:08:23 03kilobyte * re6e167e66f31 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mgen_enum.h mon-place.cc): Let regular orb-weaving spiders come in bands. 13:08:23 03kilobyte * r17b12ec06719 10/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc: Allow randart blowguns of evasion. 13:20:19 03kilobyte * rc5e24d8f856d 10/crawl-ref/settings/0.9_monster_glyphs.txt: 0.9 compat: make haired devils redder. 13:20:20 03kilobyte * rd066dc814132 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc options.h): A makeshift implementation of "language=". 13:20:20 03kilobyte * r30a190faef35 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Build databases for the selected translation as well. 13:20:20 03kilobyte * rc25d4aaf1dd7 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: When a translated database exists, query it first, falling back to English. 13:26:14 |amethyst: I have some experience messing with the delay code, so I might have a look 13:26:14 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:26:39 +1 to the more detailed steal food message. It's just a straight interface improvement 13:26:42 !messages 13:26:43 (1/1) |amethyst said (50m 11s ago): saw your mail re using a delay in deal four. That sounds reasonable, but sadly the delay code is a bit beyond me at the moment 13:26:58 <|amethyst> yay 13:27:07 |amethyst: time_taken *= 2 13:27:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte: ? 13:27:40 <|amethyst> that doesn't help with everything happenning at the same time 13:27:49 if the delay is non-interruptible, there is no reason to deal with that complexity IMO 13:28:15 assuming you want to do it the way you described: the delay is after dealing the cards 13:29:16 <|amethyst> galehar mentioned in a c-r-d email the possibility of bugs like getting entombed on the wrong side of a teleport/blink that arise from the world not getting a chance to react between draws 13:38:17 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:33 ??amulet of faith 13:38:34 amulet of faith[1/2]: Piety increases one third faster. Yes, this means you get more gifts. Good gods save you more frequently. Xom has more dynamic piety and acts more often. Removing the amulet reduces your piety (-1/3). 13:38:37 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 13:46:54 hostile gnoll shaman heals player character (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5443) by nht 13:47:21 that's the opposite of a problem 13:50:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:05 heh 13:53:48 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:48 how congruent do vault themes have to be with the general theme of the dungeons 13:54:26 general theme of d 13:54:28 what's that 13:54:39 haha D has no theme 13:54:43 the theme is dudes 13:54:50 the theme is things that exist 13:54:50 who you are supposed to kill 13:55:03 I like killdudes being the theme better 13:56:24 good examples of vault variety in d: all gods, holies, demons, spiders, spriggan fortresses, dwarf fortresses, elven fortresses, giant eye rooms, spider temples, golems, merfolk fish farms 13:56:54 so my space station portal vault wouldn't be out of place 13:56:57 hypothetically 13:57:34 sure, but what does this portal vault have 13:58:05 like in terms of monsters? 13:58:20 yes 13:58:38 let's say ugly things 13:58:43 eldritch tentacles 13:58:47 nothing new 13:59:21 sounds like abyss 13:59:52 besides it being too similar content-wise to something existing 13:59:56 is it too far off flavor-wise 14:00:37 flavour is curse toes, dire flails, double swords, and death cobs 14:01:39 considering said abyss and the fantasy background something about planes of existence might work out better over getting off of the planet 14:01:56 so the setting is basically exaggerated fantasy 14:02:14 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:21 03MarvinPA * rb1cbcf1cac66 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/unrand.txt: Mention partial resistances in the dragonskin cloak's description 14:02:26 the setting is a mess of everything 14:02:28 and vaults should stick to that unless there's a really good reason? 14:02:41 yes 14:02:51 kool 14:04:00 with the ridiculous amount of things currently in vaults and branches facing pruning or being hated despite flavour (hello, swampcrypt), a portal vault should have a good content gimmick over setting 14:04:39 yeah i'm not looking to deviate too far from the existing settings 14:05:18 just making sure i don't get a set of vaults finished and have them be completely incoherent in relation to the rest of the game 14:05:47 FR: ability to select your +atrribute you egt every 3 levels at a later data at will 14:06:03 date. 14:06:23 do you have much to show yet? 14:06:24 ??vehumet 14:06:25 vehumet[1/3]: The god of conjurers and summoners, and the most reliable way to get their higher books. Gifts {divine gift[7]} at high piety. Provides mana on kills after * piety (including collateral kills), {wizardry} bonus for destructive spells and summonings spells, and extra range and reduced MP cost for destructive spells. 14:06:49 not yet 14:06:56 this is something i'm planning on working on in the future 14:07:21 fair enough 14:07:27 |amethyst: I coded the firing_pos, but the code need some polish 14:07:38 I want to use the existing travel_path instead 14:08:08 so, now that you've exposed this code more, I might resume my work on it which is stashed in a corner 14:08:42 kilobyte: how about making a dev blog post and start recruiting translators? 14:11:44 galehar: not sure, descriptions, FAQ and some help files are the only things that _mostly_ work 14:12:15 monspeak and co may be somewhat harder, randart names a good deal harder 14:12:33 and then, all description stuff is worthless without having the actual game translated 14:12:43 which requires all the grammar stuff 14:12:46 not completely worthless! 14:13:03 not very functional, but not worthless 14:13:10 on the other hand, even if I'd make some change to descriptions, any work would be not wasted 14:22:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:55 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:21 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:25 Hey guys, I found an article which I feel is pretty relevant when thinking about the design of crawl: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/mm/172 14:24:32 galehar: in other words, files in dat/descript/ can be considered fair game already, the rest, not really 14:24:52 By Mark Rosewater. 14:25:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:59 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:34:47 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:53 kilobyte: yeah, I know that the code isn't ready for a full translation, but translating descs is already a big work. No reason to wait. 14:40:03 and it's a way to start recruiting 14:42:42 good point 14:44:29 so, would you make the blog post? I think this one is yours :) 14:45:17 to enable /fr/ you'd have to change the "language" line in initfile.cc, it will be changed later but for limited testing it's enough 14:46:00 (and include "language=fr" in crawlrc, of course) 14:46:42 while translating items, I realized that it would be far easier to first translate all item names, and only then the descriptions 14:46:43 right, we also need to start docs/develop/translations.txt ;) 14:46:59 so you know how to refer to to other stuff 14:47:08 also, card names 15:00:34 -!- res has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:21 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:57 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:11 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:07 03evilmike * r659b5bccef14 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Whitespace fix. 15:39:55 -!- HangedMan is now known as GreatOrbOfEyes 15:40:36 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:15 Firebatgyro (L14 DDHe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1052 failed. (D:18) 15:42:36 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:14 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:05:41 -!- rawrmage has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 16:06:04 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:57 If messages_at_top is set, the cursor is not over the character (middle of the viewport) but a few lines down 16:14:21 use_fake_player_cursor is a workaround 16:14:47 A minor issue but it wasn't there in some earlier version 16:15:08 I searched for it in the bug tracker, didn't spot anything yet 16:21:55 Ah, the cursor placement also depends on msg_max_height 16:23:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:35 joosa (L1 SpEn) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed. (D:1) 16:26:40 joosa (L1 SpEn) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed. (D:1) 16:34:06 Gauss the Anemomancer (L17 TeAE) (Snake:2) 16:36:36 joosa (L1 SpEn) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed. (D:1) 16:36:40 joosa (L1 SpEn) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed. (D:1) 16:41:31 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:46:38 Gauss the Anemomancer (L17 TeAE) (Vault:2) 16:49:46 Zigsprint changes. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5444) by st 16:52:31 st_: might want to use a real email address there, I think cia will announce 'a' as being the commiter 16:53:17 oh 16:53:41 Gauss the Anemomancer (L17 TeAE) (Vault:3) 16:54:51 Cursor placement wrong when using messages_at_top (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5445) by joosa 16:57:00 is it actually easier for devs if I upload a patch for that sort of thing? or better a diff or upload the entire thing? 16:57:24 The way you did it makes it pretty easy 17:00:03 all that's needed is applying it and making sure it works, no need to copy-paste the whole vault and look for what's changed, etc 17:05:34 I'm still a bit confused about all the git business, but at least I've sort of got stuff working 17:06:03 it's the first step to making a variant! :P 17:10:56 st_: scrawl?? 17:11:11 another letter joins our alphabet of forks 17:11:42 dungeon scrawl sounds pretty good I guess 17:11:58 dungeon scrawl sounds like a graphical dungeon editor 17:14:52 although it is too late for this i think, may i suggest amnesia scrolls 17:15:15 I put them in! and rings of dex! 17:15:21 oh, sweet! 17:15:35 also did you ban warpwright yet? 17:16:02 I thought someone else did, it's beyond me 17:16:39 its still in. maybe gander at zotdef, it has banned among other things the deck of dungeons portal thingy card 17:21:40 st_: you did everything correctly, aside from the lack of a valid email address 17:22:25 03evilmike * r6933cff4f19b 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/sprint/sprint_v.des: Changes to zigsprint. (st) 17:22:39 yay, thanks 17:23:11 st_: what are your plans for dungeon scrawl 17:23:46 mash all branches into main D and make it a bit longer 17:24:03 with all the info filled out, it could be done so you get announced as making the commit, and then there's a "signed off by..." bit where it mentions whoever applied it 17:24:23