00:09:29 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:12 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:10:14 03dolorous * r9d033807bdd4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Tweak wording and punctuation. 01:10:24 03dolorous * rff1255ea7689 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Remove subtractor snake description. 01:26:26 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:51 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 01:35:02 -!- rawrmage_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:38 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:36:46 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 01:37:06 -!- rawrmage has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:37:08 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:20 -!- rawrmage_ has quit [Changing host] 01:37:20 -!- rawrmage_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:37:47 -!- rawrmage_ is now known as rawrmage 01:39:14 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:12 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:40:35 -!- Zannick has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:40:42 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 01:42:44 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:41 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:02 -!- SamB_XP_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:01:21 -!- SamB_XP has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:26 -!- ainsophyao has quit [*.net *.split] 02:23:24 evilmike, it's not hard to add delve as an option in _build_postvault_level 02:23:45 evilmike, the only problem is that its parameters will have to be hardcoded 02:35:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:10 -!- SamB_XP_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:30 -!- SamB_XP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:43 -!- gnsh has quit [] 02:37:46 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:40 assert fails in player.cc (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5419) by lxl 02:49:45 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:43 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:47 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:10:37 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:20 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:19:30 evilmike: Huge kudos for working on Spider. Just axe the portal, don't let it cloud your vision. ORIENT: southeast idea sounded good, as did the "all stairs" idea 03:20:32 !tell edlothiol Props for taking on tiles submissions! 03:20:32 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 03:21:32 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:21 !tell evilmike Huge kudos for working on Spider. Just axe the portal, don't let it cloud your vision. ORIENT: southeast idea sounded good, as did the "all stairs" idea 03:22:21 Keskitalo: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 03:26:44 Hey eino :) 03:26:51 hi due! 03:34:38 -!- SamB_XP_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:34:45 -!- SamB_XP has joined ##crawl-dev 03:43:31 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:40 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 03:57:38 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:09:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:17 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 04:13:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:34 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:50 Zaba, evilmike: unlike most layout generators, delve() is not limited to blank maps, so there's no problem having both it and a primary vault 04:42:02 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:14 Fiinally 04:42:15 it'd have to be called on the map itself, though 04:42:18 Fucking sstatue bosses in zelda :( 04:42:31 disint them? :p 04:43:12 alas no 04:43:15 you have to steal their swords :D 04:44:00 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:44:00 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 04:44:03 -!- gnsh has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:44:16 03kilobyte * ra74c2dce6218 10/crawl-ref/source/util/levcomp.lpp: Fix a wrong error message. 04:44:16 03kilobyte * r3f9d6f255030 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/items.txt player.cc): Fix troll hides not granting regen. 04:44:16 03kilobyte * r46345a88ecb6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Drop two unused item descs. 04:44:16 03kilobyte * rb10dbcdf6daa 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Add missing information to a number of item descriptions. 04:44:17 03kilobyte * r1495978437e7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (28 files): Declare an explicit type for colours. 04:44:17 03kilobyte * r79645dbf09b5 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Make Pan floor/walls an angrier fruit salad. 04:44:43 kilobyte: WTF commit message. 04:46:47 ghallberg: they tended to be lightgray floors, brown walls, and some folks hate that, claiming it looks too much like regular dungeon 04:48:03 I personally prefer lightgray floors with at most odd walls, that's the reason for the shortlog line 04:48:37 but if Pan levels are supposed to draw their colours from monsters, they should always do it, not just sometimes 04:49:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:12 may be problematic, though -- there's some minor spoilers that you can expect monster X on the level 04:49:54 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 04:49:54 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 04:49:54 -!- cbus has quit [*.net *.split] 04:50:03 :o splitty mcsplit! 04:50:32 kilobyte: I see. 04:50:37 * ghallberg never went to Pan... 04:50:39 * ghallberg noob 04:52:16 fr angry fruit salad, pan-exclusive enemy 04:52:43 "It throws a banana at you. BOOM!" 04:52:44 to synergize with death cobs 04:52:49 "Ouch that really hurt." 04:54:26 s/Pan/Zot/ 04:55:25 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:25 -!- Adeon has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:25 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:48 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 05:12:11 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:08 kilobyte, yeah, but you can't easily pass parameters to layout generators called in build_postvault_level 05:16:20 kilobyte, so a call to delve there would have to have them hardcoded 05:36:43 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-451-gff1255e 06:02:45 beh, look at build_postvault_level() -- _already_ its whole contents is a list of hardcoded branches 06:03:06 kilobyte, indeed. 06:53:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:31 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:15 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:34 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:39 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Changing host] 07:17:39 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:17 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:14 hey all, 07:31:26 -!- ToBeFree changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. - test 07:31:35 -!- ToBeFree changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:31:38 yep, 07:31:42 +t mode is missing ;-) 07:31:51 I would add that^^ 07:31:59 why 07:32:09 because anyone can change the topic else? 07:32:33 exactly, i wonder what's wrong about that. 07:33:04 any misbehaving user just needs to be murdered and those aren't common 07:33:19 especially after murdering :p 07:33:51 lol, okay, imho +t is a good thing, but if you like it that way... ^^ - I thought you forgot it :D 07:35:27 it's different from, say, commit rights. It would be nice if helpful folks could fix bugs with little hassle, but being able to run arbitrary code on the machines of people who don't read every commit is nasty. Defacing the IRC topic... not so much. 07:35:55 ToBeFree: the thing about rules is that if they aren't necessary, why bother 07:36:07 if nobody screws with the topic in an unseemly manner, no need for +t 07:38:45 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:35 Hm I think perhaps 17 shadow fiends is too many 07:46:55 and 20 ancient liches/liches 07:47:57 hypercrypt 07:48:54 Nikinyo the Blocker (L19 DsWn) ASSERT(feat < NUM_FEATURES) in 'feature.cc' at line 24 failed on turn 76465. (Abyss) 07:49:54 ToBeFree: because I am standing here with a stick and a permanent ban from the channel if anyone fucks with the topic :) 07:50:00 ToBeFree: amusingly I have already exercised this! :D 07:50:14 lol? 07:50:19 okay xD 07:50:34 I'd set +c but then @?? would stop functioning :) 07:52:41 random2 is the one from 0 right? 07:52:49 yes 07:53:39 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:09 -!- kilobyte changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Bring moar pirates to the Shoals | Fuck fuck fuckity fuck | Octopode Ninjas need to reskill to Swashbucklers or be destroyed | Zombies are in, need moar robots (revert electric golems?) 07:59:13 * kilobyte watches the stick. 08:03:38 -!- kilobyte changed the topic of ##crawl-dev to: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:03:49 beh, no fun trolling a bunch of idle buggers :p 08:06:17 +1 to robots in Zot 08:06:20 03kilobyte * ra1791c7f00a9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/monspeak.txt mon-util.cc): Mark private keys in monspeak.txt 08:06:20 03kilobyte * re523175a1290 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Consistently use _key_ rather than _key for private db entries. 08:06:20 03kilobyte * rb19363b2cfa6 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 3 dirs): Put subtractors snake out of their misery. 08:06:20 03kilobyte * re4841b6c8aca 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Move remnants of old Recite to monspeak.txt, unbreak zin_angel. 08:06:21 03kilobyte * r299070325f93 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/wpnnoise.txt: Mark private keys in wpnnoise.txt 08:06:21 03kilobyte * rd65cc78f5fed 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Clear up the @imp_taunt@ vs @_imp_taunt_@ conflict. 08:06:31 03kilobyte * r36889ca46fc3 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dgn-delve.h dungeon.cc): Use layout_delve rather than layout_rooms after primary vaults in Spider. 08:06:43 spideyspideyspidey <3 08:07:06 I need to finish my spider vault 08:07:12 need to finish every vault 08:10:05 hm, i want the ME3 banshees in crawl 08:10:16 slow, sturdy, blink close, powerful ranged and melee attacks 08:10:42 like say, iron shot and 30, 30 melee 08:11:21 what even uses the potentially fun blink close 08:11:27 blink frogs? 08:11:28 besides roxanne 08:11:41 oh, i dont mean blink other close, i mean blink self close 08:11:47 oh 08:11:47 although that could also work 08:11:54 just jumping spiders 08:11:59 ill see if i can find a video, ME3 banshees are fun 08:15:29 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:01 i cant find a decent vid :( 08:17:11 the gimmick limitus for non-mara gimmicks is three, I think, so giving something else blink close could be neat 08:17:52 ME3 banshees are freaking huge, ugly, and generally instakill you if they get into melee range 08:18:15 they move mostly with short blinks, which makes them pretty fast at long range, but once they are close they are much slower than you 08:18:57 but since they also have powerful ranged attack (energy ball and mid-range shockwave) they are still threatening 08:19:06 theyre pretty fun to fight, and i think the concept could work in crawl 08:19:16 give things besides liches iood 08:19:23 <3 boris 08:19:29 probably my favorite unique 08:21:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DwktRaRycM 08:21:31 bad quality :( 08:24:12 mmm, no movement besides blink 08:24:41 they do move, just very slow 08:25:55 still makes me want an invisible wandering mushroom with blink, though 08:26:24 Confusion attacks out of nowhere? No thank you. 08:26:51 without the confusion brand 08:26:56 bug! dcss is too easy! proof: http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/qtgu8/dcss_yavp_15_runes_on_first_ever_ascension/ 08:27:29 15 runes on the first ascension! that wouldn't ever have happened under dpeg's rule of terror! 08:27:38 mummy of sif with fire storm is not exactly easy to deal with 08:28:47 bhaak: 15 runes on first ascension seems pretty common actually 08:28:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:17 elliptic: how would I know? :-) 08:29:40 more and more people seem to look down on 3-runers, I'm not sure why 08:29:51 better vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqZnSNGmizU 08:30:02 also, the players actually have some clue what they are doing in this one :) 08:30:18 elliptic: seeing more game is fun 08:30:45 after allruning a few times i have learned to appreciate not having to extended :) 08:30:49 alefury: on your FIRST ascension? shouldn't you be afraid and try to get out of the dungeon as soon as possible? 08:30:57 nah, not on my first ascension 08:31:01 i did 08:31:20 although i cheated for a bit first, so i had already seen extended 08:32:11 the sustained fire somewhat easily taking it down mostly makes me miss monster hunter 08:47:36 alefury: i don't think that gimmick would work well in crawl due to it being turnbased 08:48:41 slow monsters in general dont work well in crawl, blink close might be enough to make it work 08:48:42 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:48:49 either version, really, blink self or blink other 08:49:18 more monsters with blink close would be good, but after they blink close you can just step away from them, and then they either blink close again or step (wasting energy) 08:49:33 there isn't flanking and stuff in crawl 08:50:23 blink close and constriction 08:51:32 Eronarn: would have to have ranged attacks, of course. preferrably short range 08:52:01 i did actually think about this for a few seconds, you know. 08:53:38 it's interesting how he calls IOOD powerful, while it's something I considered pushing up 08:54:08 (partially due to losing 5 and 8 hp from subsequent IOODs in the Iskenderun wizlab, with mere 26 AC) 08:54:21 iood is powerful in open areas, especially against enemies with multiple elemental resists 08:54:28 well, that's just how crawl damage works :P 08:54:45 the thing is, you dont want to fight in open areas unless you have to 08:54:55 ring of fireball 08:55:00 storm 08:55:22 enemies tend to come close to you, though 08:55:27 in some parts of extended iood is pretty good, for a 3-runer its not great 08:55:42 yeah, but iood is weak at short range 08:55:44 IOOD has an upside of ignoring EV... Iron Shot sometimes feels like inacc 08:55:53 iood has a downside of sometimes just missing 08:56:01 iron shot is a free slimy rune?? 08:56:18 iron shot is a damn good spell 08:56:31 we should make either iron shot or throw icicle pin things to walls 08:56:39 everyone used crystal spear in 0.4, there days it's iron shot 08:56:49 my main use for iood is taking down orbs of fire in the hall of zot btw 08:56:59 thats the one area where it really really shines, imo 08:58:25 got to download all tourney morgues to check... (I only browsed some wins at random) 08:59:14 youre making a spells for winners list? 08:59:16 IOOD is pretty terrible 08:59:25 a sad thing that action counts are not on by default 08:59:45 say it should be for the sake of statistics checking 08:59:50 if you do compile spell stats using the tourney, please separate by tiles vs non-tiles :P 09:00:16 heh 09:00:22 elliptic: it makes me very sad that the coolest spells are not good 09:00:32 malign gateway in particular makes me so sad :( 09:00:35 refridge is great what are you talking about 09:00:47 st_ claims malign gateway is good 09:00:54 same problem as ood 09:00:58 (I've never had any luck using it myself though) 09:01:00 its delayed, and needs space 09:01:07 in the places where it works its pretty great 09:01:39 corridor elf:5s 09:02:06 hm, that could be great, yeah 09:02:19 if you get lucky and the portal spawns close enough to the corridor 09:02:43 elf:5 is LRD land 09:02:58 i prefer shatter :) 09:03:16 monsters with good EV, 0.00001 hp, with summons blocking line of effect, all close to walls 09:03:16 pretty much any spell is good in elf 09:03:41 or at least any spell that isn't single-target 09:03:48 kilobyte: clouds are even better, really 09:03:55 those dont even need los 09:04:08 ie, area or smite spells that ignore EV 09:04:11 yes, clouds are the standard way to kill elf... can even use a rod 09:04:22 (can we remove rods) 09:04:36 incidentally, all smite and area spells ignore EV 09:04:50 whats so bad about rods? just the interface? or do you not like powerful evo items in general? 09:05:37 alefury: they duplicate conjurations and require far less skill investment 09:05:50 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:magical:misc&s[]=evokable 09:05:51 a melee guy with a rod of freezing cloud can clear elf:5 without doing any melee 09:06:00 with only moderate evoc skill 09:06:28 so you dislike powerful damaging evo items in general 09:06:41 no, wands are fine 09:06:50 i mean permanent ones 09:06:54 I think the word being avoided is "overpowered" 09:07:07 alefury: at least ones that duplicate spells 09:07:12 rods are kind of extremely rare, though 09:07:35 no, you can just do staff acq with evo 09:07:37 rarity isn't a very good defense 09:07:50 freezing is probably the only overpowered rod, though 09:07:57 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:03 ??rods 09:08:03 rods[1/1]: striking, smiting, destruction (4 types), summoning, demonology, warding, venom 09:08:35 alefury: venom is another source of infinite clouds 09:08:46 it also has parrow 09:08:47 and everyone knows about inacc, though at least that isn't duplicating a spell 09:08:55 oh, right, my last rod dude went tso late game, so i forgot about venom 09:08:59 dont forget about striking 09:09:11 rod of uselessness 09:09:12 and warding is just free DMsl for anyone who finds it, no need for any evoc skill 09:09:23 yeah, but who needs DMsl? 09:09:37 ime its usually not worth the hunger 09:09:38 people who don't have rMsl 09:09:50 ie, Trog dodgers 09:09:55 at least not for every single ranged encounter 09:10:05 mube reasons 09:10:13 maybe i would spam it if the interface was simple 09:10:30 actually, i would probably do that, yes 09:11:04 rod interface alone is probably worth removing them 09:11:23 �them� ? 09:11:48 could bring in regular evocable items to replace them, and all should probably have some cost (either a strong downside to using them, or charges/chance to break) 09:11:51 be nerfs everywhere 09:12:00 what about making rods work like ranged weapons that use evoc as their skill 09:12:03 the misc items devwiki page 09:12:06 so you just fire them with f 09:12:09 HangedMan: theres a huge list with evo item suggestions, i doubt it would be a nerf overall 09:12:20 and change the quiver with the normal buttons 09:12:31 [03:13:10:05:59] https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:item:magical:misc&s[]=evokable 09:13:13 "1: Old potion of magic (adds permanent MaxMP). Many will try and suffer, given their lack in Evocations." 09:13:16 hehehehehe 09:13:24 what with Tomes of Destruction? They're especially weird as "tomes" since Trog is ok with them. 09:13:35 remove them 09:13:35 maybe make the V screen work like a spell list for rods 09:13:40 having each rod do a single unique thing rather than 3-4 fake spells could be good 09:13:58 actually the Tomes are kind of fun, just totally useless in current practice 09:13:59 rod of tomes 09:14:24 tomes have actually seen some serious use in sprint 09:14:34 rod of storms 09:14:37 in regular play, you will just use attack wands instead 09:14:41 kilobyte: what about making it a 'rod of wild magic' instead 09:14:56 I think that's the problem, that they are just wands with much more randomness 09:15:03 elliptic: imo, rod wielding needs to go away 09:15:13 how do you feel about not having to wield the rods to evoke them 09:15:27 would work with what was discussed yesterday re ranged combat i guess, a launcher slot 09:15:31 alefury: yes, that would help... and then we could remove the silliness with rods being clubs too 09:15:40 and maybe rename rods into something more relevant 09:15:46 megawands 09:15:57 I still think that they either need to have much more interesting effects or be finite resources or both 09:16:09 splashy staffs 09:16:28 intersting effects sounds like the best way to go 09:17:08 most permanent evo items use risk of self damage to balance them (disk of storms, cboe, tome of destruction) 09:17:16 tome isn't permanent 09:17:18 well, non-rod permanent evo items 09:17:33 oh, right. i never used one often enough to find out... 09:17:44 it has a small chance of destruction each use 09:17:54 tome of selfdestruction 09:18:50 one suggestion i had a while ago was to make rod effects be a property rather than a base item 09:18:57 so like you might get a sword that you can evoke 09:19:21 works better on armor imo 09:19:21 then have rods be real weapons, which always have one rod property 09:19:32 swapping pisses me off so much 09:19:46 why aren't rods staves 09:20:16 03dolorous * r53f0749a5e41 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Tweak wording and punctuation. 09:20:16 eronarn: make/create? for example being able to add �innac� to a sword 09:20:22 oh, a fun evo effect, stolen from bg2 staff of the magi: fireball lightning 09:20:35 one-time uses like vorpalise 09:20:36 Ragdoll: i meant something that shows up on unrands, maybe rands 09:20:45 it casts fireball, and lightning bolt, at the same time :) 09:20:57 ah. 09:21:05 HangedMan: imo staff of olgreb is a pretty good prototype of a single-effect rod-as-staff 09:21:16 mmmm 09:21:35 it's pretty fun to use 09:21:46 it feels like an alternate ranged weapon, but different because of the two effects 09:22:35 wasn't it buffed with the olgreb buff 09:23:02 i wonder about making all elemental staves work like that, actually... 09:24:15 they're already a combination of magic/evo 09:24:44 might be a bit much considering their dual purposes already 09:25:33 i don't think staves are good enough that they should be immune to revamps 09:26:37 if we could combine rods/staves into one cool item type that works (differently) for either magicusers or evokers, that would be great 09:26:54 cboe means there is some significant overlap of those two 09:27:34 giving an evocable spell to staffs would not be a big deal for magic users, because if they want to use the staff they already have spells of that element 09:27:43 right 09:28:13 as long as it has an appropriate MP cost it should work fine 09:28:51 evoc doesnt give extra MP though 09:29:10 one rule could be something like: 1 MP per shot of a staff 09:29:20 still means swapping for chars that just want to take advantage of the evoke effect 09:29:26 could be cool, though I worry a little because of how strong olgreb is 09:29:33 eronarn: uh, only 1 MP? what? 09:29:54 elliptic: i'm not talking having all of them be bolt of fire 09:29:54 could just make evo give mp 09:29:55 isn't it only spellcasting and invocations that gives mp 09:30:05 Ragdoll: making evo give MP is probably fine 09:30:08 oh, pah, misread 09:30:13 weaker effects, say, starting out like rod of smiting strength 09:30:18 ddbe buff 09:30:30 er, striking, rather 09:30:36 what, why? 09:31:02 hey, lets put work into something nobody in their right mind would ever use! 09:31:06 alefury: i don't think people with 0 evo should get good evokable effects out of staves 09:31:07 that seems like a good idea 09:31:30 they don't get any free decent melee damage, that already is a penalty 09:31:39 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:48 hm, you mean it would scale very strongly with evo 09:31:52 and start out like striking 09:32:03 that sounds much better than what i thought you said 09:32:23 and later on it would be 1 MP still? I don't think balancing this is going to be very easy 09:32:36 mp cost could be variable. maybe even all 09:32:47 elliptic: i think having a consistent MP cost is better than an MP cost that scales with evo, but it's hardly mandatory 09:33:01 the better you are at evoking, the more power you can channel through the staff to convert into shooty blasty things 09:33:32 alefury: heh, here's an idea - rod 'spells' become staff 'power levels' 09:33:36 simply making it take all your mp would be a nice way of making sure its not another stealth caster buff 09:33:38 and you can dial the power up/down 09:33:39 why was the option to use a rod instead of a wand removed, by the way? I liked the rod thing, even if it was hard/underpowered 09:33:43 kind of like choosing different ammo 09:33:44 ^^ 09:34:20 ToBeFree: you mean as artificer? because rod of striking is a joke and because unnecessary starting options are bad 09:34:21 ToBeFree: startup choices were reduced across the board 09:34:25 because less options at starting screen is one of the highest priorities 09:34:26 i think it would be very intuitive since it would basically be the same as spells, but instead you fire them out of a magic gun 09:34:37 see no hopr of zin 09:34:41 eronarn: interface gets bad again 09:34:57 elliptic: well, it would be wieldable, so it'd work like quiver interface 09:35:00 the bad part about rod interface is not the spell choice, but the swapping 09:35:12 quiver interface is not exactly something to write home about :P 09:35:35 f, then () or whatever to change active spell isn't bad imo 09:35:37 having a spell choice for rods currently is pretty bad when people rarely use more than one of the options in each rod 09:35:41 much better than evoke popup 09:35:45 i think rods as launchers would probably work better than merging rods and staves 09:36:32 elliptic: well, they'd function more like different levels of thematically related spells 09:36:48 so you'd likely use the ones relevant to your evo level 09:40:33 a basic version of this item might be something like: staff of cold, rC+ Cold+, powers: 1 MP cold-damage-on-hit (as now), 2 MP throw frost at evo 8, 4 mp fling icicle at evo 16 09:40:46 except i think it should probably not replicate existing spells if possible 09:40:58 vehumet overhaul spells 09:41:49 could make the evo have success/fail rates, like magic, rather than be unlocked tiers... i like the idea of evo miscasts being able to permanently damage your item 09:42:51 come to think of it that could be a good way to make evo more relevant for wands without making wands either underpowered at low level or overpowered at high level 09:42:53 Blow out your staff in a fury of fire/ice/etc. 09:44:16 re vehumet overhaul: ldierk is the second person to work on it and vanish :( 09:45:10 Must be cursed 09:46:44 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-465-g53f0749 (32) 09:47:29 -!- gnsh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:49:02 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:17 03dolorous * rd316ca3d4e36 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Remove unneeded blank line. 09:52:59 how far along is portal branches? 10:05:21 which portal branches? 10:05:58 ? 10:06:04 i thought there was only kilobyte's 10:13:51 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:04 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:34:20 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:39 for some reason I'm not happy with this tar_old update 10:47:48 it doesn't feel right 10:47:54 you mean those dividers? 10:48:12 oh wait. 10:48:18 I misread tar as dis. 10:50:10 yeah I think that works okay and fits in enough... 10:52:17 perhaps I should try and do this more simply 10:56:39 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:53 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:31 03MarvinPA * rfc91a6a474ed 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Properly mark known-empty wands as empty 11:02:31 03MarvinPA * r305739ea97a1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Minor text improvement improvements 11:13:16 -!- greatzebu has quit [Quit: greatzebu] 11:16:14 03dolorous * r2ea0e193c3cd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix typo. 11:16:24 03dolorous * rabd2e757b711 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Fix spelling. 11:36:26 -!- syllogism- has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:36:40 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:19 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:57:38 elliptic: did you see any of the nemelex discussion in ##crawl yesterday? was talking with nht about the idea of just making him not gift wonders and dungeons anymore, and replace them with tactical effects instead (stuff from the deck of battle + potion + alchemist) 11:58:42 it started with just wanting to do something about trowel being obviously absurd but i think really just making him not gift any of the weird strategic stuff would be an improvement 12:00:15 tactical stuff for saccing misc/consumables? 12:01:29 not sure what the best thing to do with the weightings would be, that might need a bit of rethinking 12:11:24 one thing that could be done about trowel being absurd is remove trowel... 12:11:24 MarvinPA: could be best just to scrap the idea of nemelex gifting broken stuff, yes :P 12:11:36 escape also needs some work btw 12:11:57 tomb being passwallable kind of sucks 12:12:03 it is quite terrible aside from stacking tomb cards and abusing warpwright 12:13:35 MarvinPA: I do think that the changes to gifting frequency/timeout help though (at least without faith), so maybe this isn't necessary 12:13:42 elliptic: right, but removing the broken stuff basically makes dungeons and wonders pretty worthless which is where the idea of replacing them with tactical effects from the deck of battle came from 12:14:08 sooo: you sacrifice potions, and this gives you, what, potions? 12:14:50 of course this can work, but i dont think it would be simple 12:15:12 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:15:23 well, we could say "screw weighting" and just have him give you all of them for saccing anything 12:15:33 I believe this is how it used to be 12:16:06 would mean more piety, because you can sac everything 12:16:29 what do you mean? 12:16:29 also, even more tedium because you have to sac everything 12:16:59 sacrificing stuff gives piety. if you dont sacrifice weapons and armor (because of weightings) you lose some piety. 12:17:51 this is not a problem, just might require adjustment (or not, because you would get more decks, but not the ones you want) 12:19:42 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:43 just getting rid of the weighting might work, yeah 12:20:03 theres a nemelex thread on the tavern btw 12:20:19 i saw, yeah 12:20:21 i didnt the first post because its by xuaxua 12:20:32 one suggestion that came up in a later post was full screen sac 12:20:43 i got a reminder to remove mark 4 out of it, at least :P 12:21:43 tactical use of full screen sac could be fun, and accidentally killing your stash would be a good incentive to learn about inscriptions :) 12:21:44 full screen sac sounds awful :P 12:22:07 I already find it hard to avoid killing stuff I don't want with fedhas prayer, and this would be much worse 12:22:11 yeah... not sure thatd help much 12:22:14 that'd* 12:22:42 without weighting, people would want to sac every weapon and armour 12:22:49 thats incredibly tedious 12:23:03 fullscreen sac seems quite problematic though, yeah 12:23:13 would have to pick up everything you want to keep before sacrificing :( 12:23:49 and to know if you want stuff, have to examine stacks, so it wouldnt even remove that much tedium 12:23:59 jiyva handles this well 12:24:06 heh 12:24:18 might be an interesting way to balance nemelex :P 12:24:49 everything on the floor is sacrificed once you leave los 12:24:53 except decks 12:25:49 new utility deck with apportation and some other neat stuff in it, because this would be hell without apportation 12:26:24 I and many others already sac every weapon and armour and we get on fine 12:26:48 same, yeah 12:26:52 i don't see why you wouldn't 12:26:59 mhh, summoning weighting is still high enough, you just lose out on dungeons/wonders 12:27:08 there isn't much reason not to sac every weapon currently I think... sacrificing armour is annoying because escape decks are annoying though 12:27:41 where by annoying I mean "will abyss you if you draw from them randomly" 12:27:53 i tend to not have much use for decks of destruction, i do just fine with wands 12:28:14 you can just draw out decks of destruction for piety, and the legendary ones are actually pretty good 12:28:26 in situations where i need extra oomph im usually not comfortable with risky decks 12:29:16 btw, whats the best way to identify decks (without scrolls)? 12:29:19 use, or peek? 12:29:20 draw three from destruction is pretty good 12:29:30 triple draw from anything is pretty good 12:29:50 use is obviously better if you don't care about the small chance of shuffle/abyss/something else bad 12:30:01 peek is safer but yeah, use is normally fine 12:30:23