00:19:35 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:56 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:19 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:17 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:21 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:21 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:01 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:31 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:51 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:15 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:19 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:03:38 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:08:40 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:11:52 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20:45 Annoyingly many comments on the TIGsource Crawl post about how the writer only uses small letters in the comment section. 02:50:43 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:34 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:05 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:25:53 banishment is the only thing to stop most scummers 03:26:19 so Xom needs to keep it 03:28:14 Keskitalo: you mean, a forum is derailed by a subthread? How surprising! 03:31:13 well, Xom doesn't have to give item gifts 03:55:03 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:31 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 04:12:18 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:36:35 sleikhar (L13 DgFE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (Lair:5) 04:36:46 enemyfighter (L11 SpVM) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:11) 04:37:20 Grildrak (L3 DEWz) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:2) 04:37:43 Ned (L2 SpWn) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:1) 04:37:54 ghrmblah spam spam spam 04:38:21 Newb (L8 HuFi) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:6) 04:38:23 it does throw the player out as well, right? 04:39:30 -!- ogsus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:41:34 Unneeded prompt when casting magic dart (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5401) by Letchik 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-376-gc989334 05:04:56 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:50 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:15:58 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:54 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:17 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:31 Synoecium (L21 OpSu) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Elf:2) 05:43:08 Synoecium (L21 OpSu) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Elf:2) 06:17:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:28:22 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:49 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:29 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:33:29 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:41:37 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:18 Eronarn: description of rings of the Octopus King: shouldn't that poem go to quotes instead? (it wasn't possible before, it is now in my not-yet-pushed version) 08:04:25 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:59 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:49 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:08 Lulzdzi (L6 HuEn) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:3) 08:42:13 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:21 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:39 -!- cosh has quit [] 09:06:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:12:02 I need to update mysqld on CDO 09:12:17 if anybody runs into trouble, please let me know 09:15:13 done 09:21:59 -!- ogsus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:57 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 09:28:54 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:30 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:28 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:40 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:52:40 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 10:06:42 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:54 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:00 -!- hypnocat has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:33 where can i submit feature requests? 10:15:42 on the dev wiki 10:16:18 ??devwiki 10:16:22 dev wiki[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=start 10:17:13 thanks 10:21:40 03galehar * ra952059ef79e 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: In wizard mode, display exact attack delay in @ message. 10:22:14 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-376-gc989334 (32) 10:25:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:25:55 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:16 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:32 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:06 galehar: about unwrapped descriptions: cards aside, looks like there is not a single description with hard wraps that should be there. In every case there's an empty line separating paragraphs. 10:40:27 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:29 so about our discussion yesterday morning, looks like a hybrid solution would be best 10:41:23 no monstrous lines that can't be read or edited out of your :vm=0, and no need to wrap everything by hand either 10:42:44 so how would the description be in the source files? 10:44:25 any wrapping is ok, newlines are ignored except for paragraph separators 10:44:48 -!- gnsh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:02 also, quotes have every single preformatted one indented by one space, so this can be applied there as well 10:45:37 -!- Ragdoll_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:31 yeah, but in practice, the source files will end up with 80 col hard wrapping. When editing, you either have an editor which will nicely handle the hard wrapping for you, or the source file end up a bit messy (but not the output) 10:47:53 probably the best compromise if long lines are unpopular 10:48:39 if the source is wrapped at 50 or 100 it looks slightly messy, still a giant step forward from 1000 column unwrapped 10:49:10 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:17 -!- Ragdoll_ is now known as Ragdoll 10:52:16 03kilobyte * rff4329dd56ac 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Evict unrand descriptions into the database. 10:52:16 03kilobyte * raf455c78e733 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/unrand.txt: Improve a few DESC + DESC_END unrand descriptions. 10:52:16 03kilobyte * r21b5edc6d98d 10/crawl-ref/source/art-data.txt: Scale the Dragon King's enchantment up. 10:52:16 03kilobyte * r6c938707811e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/unrand.txt: Make some unrand descriptions (hopefully) betterer. 10:52:17 03kilobyte * rc231b49e0d2c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files): Remove the Holy spell school. 10:52:18 03kilobyte * r11fe7dbf2b7b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Move cloud traps out of pressure plates. 10:52:18 03kilobyte * r14aa53688abd 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (database/quotes.txt descript/features.txt): Descriptions for some trap types. 10:52:18 03kilobyte * r7028a21f9646 10/crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt: Revert spelling changes from 81611bce. 10:52:18 03kilobyte * r877884e2f816 10/crawl-ref/source/ (database.cc libutil.cc libutil.h): Allow descriptions (dat/descript/*.txt) to be logically wrapped in the sources. 10:52:18 03kilobyte * r49e003de6034 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Allow logically wrapped quotes as well. 10:52:19 03kilobyte * r394ab39f70ed 10/crawl-ref/source/main.cc: Whitespace: remove a few tabs. 10:52:34 03kilobyte * ra1513a85648a 10/crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Simplify, comment. 10:52:34 03kilobyte * r4553a5bd94e9 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Remove the description for Disintegrate as a spell. 10:52:34 03kilobyte * r3cbdc586d946 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Repair Terpsichore's cantrips. 10:52:34 03kilobyte * r00f44d17e511 10/crawl-ref/source/ (14 files in 5 dirs): Remove Terpsichore (remember, you can revert!). 10:52:34 03kilobyte * r10752b7fa0a0 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc spl-cast.h spl-data.h): Remove SPFLAG_CARD. 10:52:35 03kilobyte * r9b26e05369a4 10/crawl-ref/source/chardump.cc: Dump known spells in the same school order as is used elsewhere. 10:55:13 epic! 10:56:45 what is the Admiral Ackbar quotation? 10:56:49 looks like we can think about translating the database 10:57:00 "a trap" -> "It's a trap." 10:57:44 ok :) 10:57:56 (and no, I haven't watched a single episode of Star Wars :p) 10:58:13 shame on you 10:59:32 <|amethyst> that's the one with space and robots and lasers, right? 10:59:42 I thought targetting didn't exist in any english version 10:59:51 someone said that it's just a common mispelling 11:01:07 <|amethyst> targetting seems pretty common among reputable sources 11:02:33 due and an .au dictionary confirmed it 11:02:43 I know it's vim's default, but is there any real people who actually use 8 space tabs for indenting? 11:02:49 It's insane 11:03:34 https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/CodingStyle 11:03:37 how is it insane? 11:04:10 also, git, less, all terminals I know, etc, use 8 columns 11:04:49 <|amethyst> if you use real tabs and do it properly (tabs for indent, spaces for alignment) it doesn't matter how wide your tab stops are 11:05:24 kilobyte: I like the "you shouldn't have more than 3 levels" argument 11:05:24 any folks I happened to personally code with use 4 space indents (except for Crawl, usually compressing level two indents to a tab), except for old Pascal folks who do only 2 11:06:36 but crawl's code is bad for that. If we had 8 spaces indentation, our code would be (even more) unreadable 11:06:44 <|amethyst> heh 11:06:59 <|amethyst> I'm glad crawl doesn't mix tabs and spaces 11:07:11 <|amethyst> that's my biggest pet peeve wrt indentation 11:07:59 <|amethyst> other than that I'm not too picky, but usually use something like K&R style with tabs 11:08:26 -!- Ganrao| has quit [] 11:09:50 kilobyte: oh, that's why whitespace.pl convert tabs to 8 spaces! For the cases where someone use a tab character to replace 2 levels of indentation. 11:10:01 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:13 galehar: it's quite common in old codebases 11:10:21 presumably as some sort of compression 11:10:38 <|amethyst> in vim if you :set sw=4 without doing anything else, that's what you'll get 11:10:56 All the patches I've commited which used tabs instead of spaces used them for 1 indentation level. So I couldn't fix them easily with whitespace. 11:11:17 |amethyst: also in Emacs 11:11:41 compressing spaces... For the people connected with 56k modems? 11:12:04 <|amethyst> more like 300 baud modems 11:12:41 I bet git uses compression anyway 11:13:04 git does use compression 11:13:37 galehar: remember how old these games are 11:14:44 sure, but whitespace.pl is used to fix new patches, not to import code from NH 2.0 11:14:48 anyway, have to go 11:14:50 'later 11:16:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:51 hah, inconsistencies can be nice sometimes 11:17:16 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:17:21 I'm getting rid of dgn.set_feature_desc_long(), putting it to database to make it translateable 11:18:07 "A crumbled stone wall" vs "A crumbling stone wall" (different descriptions) save a lot of thought :) 11:19:45 <|amethyst> Does that mean vault authors will have to edit the database if they want to add "custom" grid features? 11:22:47 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:40 i use vim macros to replace tabs with spaces; one for 4 and one for 8 11:28:56 quick question: what's the difference between mpr() and mprf()? 11:28:56 nfogravity: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:28:59 !messages 11:28:59 (1/1) ogsus said (1h 31m 29s ago): I see your patchset made it into trunk, congrats :) 11:29:11 i haven't used them in awhile since i have the options set not to use hard tabs 11:30:21 <|amethyst> nfogravity: mpr() takes just a string (and optional message channel), mprf() takes a message channel, a printf-style format string, and format parameters 11:30:23 nfogravity: have you considered running putty/cygwin instead of windows console to test crawl things? 11:31:01 that's a good idea, i'd love to know how. i have cygwin installed almost surely 11:31:58 nfogravity: i'm not sure if you can build crawl through cygwin but i can't imagine it's not possible - as for cygwin through putty, check out puttycyg 11:32:34 right now i'm using msysgit -- is that what you mean by 'windows console'? 11:33:10 no, by windows console i mean cmd.exe 11:33:26 msysgit uses mingw, i think 11:33:38 yeah i use mingw 11:33:58 the output is still funky but less than cmd.exe 11:34:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:06 well, mingw is not really an environment to run in - if you install cygwin you can probably even run xterm 11:36:18 make returns an exe, so i imagine that i'm just building it for windows 11:37:22 kilobyte: you can put the quote wherever works. if you can make the formatting look nicer, that would be great :) 11:38:06 it'd be cool to have different flavor text for each ring but that would so not be worth the coding effort 11:38:26 nfogravity: yeah , i really don't know anything about having linux build environments on windows - anyways, got to go now, good luck 11:38:31 thanks 11:38:37 and thanks for the congratulations 11:41:51 that reminds me, are you in the credits yet? 11:42:03 me? no 11:43:26 if you want to be added, it can either be as your real name or as nfogravity (not sure which you prefer). Most people who have contributed something to crawl are listed there 11:43:39 most 11:44:09 yeah, occasionally people don't want to be listed there, and occasionally someone forgets to add them 11:44:15 * Zannick should contribute more until he qualifies for being listed 11:44:44 Khamul (L10 VpWz) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:8) 11:44:55 i'd be honored. is it uncommon to use a handle instead of a real name? 11:45:08 Zannick: you're welcome to be listed there too, if you've ever submitted a patch or any content 11:45:58 nfogravity: the list mostly uses real names, but there are a few online handles on there and adding "nfogravity" wouldn't look out of place 11:46:09 sweet 11:46:44 eh what the hell, i'll use my real name then 11:46:50 <|amethyst> of the 111 entries, 15 use one-word handles and 8 have a 'quoted' handle between the first and last name 11:47:09 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:29 <|amethyst> and a few are multi-word handles 11:47:40 <|amethyst> At least I assume "Icy Lich" isn't a real name 11:47:42 yeah, let's do steve "nfogravity" if that's okay 11:47:50 alright 11:48:27 <|amethyst> hm 11:48:58 <|amethyst> evilmike: while you're at it, can you add me to the list of devs there 11:49:06 <|amethyst> I want to thank people too 11:49:25 |amethyst: sure. I'm surprised you aren't on that list 11:50:09 hm, whether to use "Zannick" or "jokeserver" or my real name 11:50:20 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:44 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:21 (my contributions can be found in the git log by searching for "jokeserver"; 3 bugfixes and rune mimics) 11:52:16 03dolorous * r1bdb958655ae 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/features.txt: Add wording fixes. 11:52:17 03dolorous * r801f0f13d1e4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/unrand.txt: Add punctuation fix. 11:53:33 could you list me just as "Zannick"? that's good enough for me 11:53:55 Zannick: alright 11:54:01 thanks :) 11:56:17 03evilmike * rb11eba3dbaba 10/crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt: Update CREDITS.txt (|amethyst, nfogravity, Zannick). 12:09:54 !tell ogsus puttycyg is much snappier so far, thanks 12:10:13 nfogravity: OK, I'll let ogsus know. 12:12:25 03kilobyte * r1b6a047496a1 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/ (14 files in 5 dirs): Evict custom feature descriptions from vaults to the database. 12:12:25 03kilobyte * rcf92c3c6c818 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc describe.h l_dgngrd.cc): Drop the code for set_feature_desc_long(). 12:12:25 03kilobyte * r8cffb607ce0f 10/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc: Unbreak tiles builds wrt Terpsichore. 12:14:19 jhr (L3 MiPr) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:2) 12:14:39 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:09 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:33 Alg (L25 NaTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (Vault:7) 12:24:29 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:24:42 trul (L4 MuIE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:2) 12:25:16 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:19 Alg (L25 NaTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (Vault:8) 12:26:27 psch (L14 DDEE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:13) 12:26:42 jhr (L5 MiPr) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:4) 12:27:29 that seems problematic 12:28:18 Grildrak (L5 DEWz) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:4) 12:28:19 apparently that error is fixed but Napkin hasn't put the fix on CDO yet? 12:29:31 yes, updating webtiles is still way more compilicated than dglcrawl 12:29:41 and time-intensive 12:29:45 *consuming 12:30:38 Napkin: have you looked into devops tools like chef or puppet? 12:31:00 should i? 12:31:18 maybe 12:31:35 it tries to handle infrastructure like code 12:31:37 Synoecium (L2 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:2) 12:31:52 "chef" is like.. impossible to google for ;) 12:32:00 puppet is not much better :) 12:32:11 puppet was second link ;) 12:32:27 Synoecium (L2 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:2) 12:32:38 append "devops" if google doesn't return anything sensible :) 12:33:25 Synoecium (L2 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:2) 12:34:20 well, reading up on those and figuring out if they could handle crawl (which i doubt) would take longer than upgrading webtiles and writing the scripts to do so automatically 12:37:06 oh, i have no doubts that they could handle crawl. they could even handle setting up a complete new crawl server. but i don't know if the invested time would pay off 12:37:33 exaclty - multiplying one change to multiple servers would be no problem 12:37:54 but that's not the point 12:38:25 creating the "change" is the fun part 12:39:27 but using a cool tool for doing the change instead of 30 years old shell technology is also fun :-) 12:41:03 i'm not so sure about that ;) 12:41:09 Synoecium (L4 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:3) 12:44:32 Synoecium (L5 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:3) 12:47:46 ughhh come on cygwin 12:47:49 what more do you want from me 12:48:07 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:59 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:45 Napkin: are we going to have a trunk webtiles kept up-to-date with cron jobs anytime soon? 12:59:09 maybe on the weekend after the coming one, galehar 12:59:58 still? come on, ugh 13:02:18 Napkin: awesome! 13:02:29 thanks 13:03:22 nfogravity: cygwin is a pain in the ass. any reason why you cant use mingw? 13:03:40 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:42 because i want to see what the linux console build looks like, and i can run it through putty 13:04:05 so i don't need to ask friendly linux people to build my shit 13:04:13 heh 13:04:20 you know what else you could do? ;) 13:04:48 i have the new(est? i think) ubuntu on a partition and i HATE it 13:05:03 everything about it is janky and awful 13:06:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:14 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:06:19 Scrap it and get the LTS one? 13:06:33 maybe 13:06:39 anyway right now i'm getting this error: 13:06:40 CXX abl-show.o 13:06:40 cc1plus: error: unrecognized command line option "-Wno-array-bounds" 13:06:40 Makefile:1289: recipe for target `abl-show.o' failed 13:06:40 make: *** [abl-show.o] Error 1 13:06:45 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:48 -!- PoopBridge|ghost has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:51 -!- PoopBridge|ghost is now known as PoopBridge 13:09:42 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:7) 13:10:14 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:49 nfogravity: building with cygwin? I don't think that's supported by out makefile 13:11:03 nfogravity: I have a debian running in a virtualbox 13:11:15 you might want to remove it from the "install.txt" then 13:11:36 galehar: cygwin should work, although I haven't tested it in ages 13:11:46 i installed all the dependencies 13:11:49 and it's throwing that error 13:12:34 -!- PoopBridge|ghost has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:40 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:12:43 -!- PoopBridge|ghost is now known as PoopBridge 13:15:30 -!- nfogravy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:38 wow virtualbox is way more user-friendly than it used to be 13:19:01 -!- PoopBridge|ghost has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:01 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:19:03 -!- PoopBridge|ghost is now known as PoopBridge 13:20:04 -!- nfogravity has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:20:42 -!- nfogravy is now known as nfogravity 13:20:57 ltduran (L3 HEWz) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:2) 13:21:04 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:21:05 psch (L15 DDEE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:8) 13:21:27 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:21:43 sleikhar (L15 FeFE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:11) 13:22:27 -!- PoopBridge|ghost has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:27 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:22:27 -!- PoopBridge|ghost is now known as PoopBridge 13:23:50 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:23:54 execc (L3 GhMo) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:3) 13:24:38 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:26:19 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:27:19 -!- PoopBridge|ghost has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:19 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:27:21 -!- PoopBridge|ghost is now known as PoopBridge 13:27:32 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:27:50 -!- urthmover has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:28 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:28:51 crawl-console/osx I'm unable to start the app. I'm getting: sqlite3.c:15631: failed assertion `p->id==SQLITE_MUTEX_RECURSIVE || pthreadMutexNotheld(p)' 13:29:06 does anyone have a suggestion on how to start the app? 13:29:11 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:29:35 similar to the comments on http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/crawl-0-10-octopus 13:30:27 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:31:13 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:31:21 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:31:30 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:31:54 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:32:44 one of the comments says "It turned out I had a local installation of libsqlite3 that took precedence over the system one. Everything works fine after removing the local libsqlite3. " 13:33:06 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:33:47 Synoecium (L9 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:10) 13:35:28 ok fixed I had to remove libsqlite3 using macports...oddly though when I sudo ports uninstall libsqlite3 I got no output...yet cral still works 13:39:19 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 13:40:35 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 13:42:30 wow, they've gained a level despite all the problems 13:43:41 what causes this crash anyway? is it something players can control? 13:45:17 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 13:45:32 <|amethyst> hm 13:45:41 -!- urthmover has left ##crawl-dev 13:59:42 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:28 Alg (L27 NaTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Zot:2) 14:11:47 oh i like debian 6, this is nice 14:13:15 Remove the Lantern of Shadows interface screw (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5402) by XuaXua 14:13:49 elliptic: hard to tell what causes it looking at the fix (8e777f91f) 14:15:09 nfogravity: around? I have some ideas for fsim 14:15:22 yeah, i'm here 14:16:07 first, get rid of fsim_str, fsim_int, fsim_dex and fsim_xl. They are useless. 14:16:34 yeah, i'm actually right now coding a wizard command to import character data from a morgue file 14:16:35 We can keep fsim_kit, but instead of using a separate command, use it if it's non-empty 14:16:46 nfogravity: this is great! 14:16:49 i know 14:16:51 that 14:16:55 is why i'm doing it :D 14:17:48 ok, keep doing that. I'll tell you my fsim ideas for after :) 14:18:46 so, add a new option fsim_scale. It defaults to "weapon, fighting:0.5" which kinda preserves the current behaviour 14:19:16 you can feed it skills, or generic skills (like weapon or magic) and an optional float which is used as a multiplier 14:20:14 you can also put stats, but scaling them on a 0-27 is useless, so you'd rather use "str:9-15" 14:20:39 or "str:-15" which means start at the current value and scale it up to 15 14:20:50 this syntax can also be used for skills 14:21:20 we can put xl to, but it's rare that it has any effect on combat 14:22:41 I think it would be not too hard to implement and quite flexible 14:23:05 there's plenty more we can do, but let's start with that 14:30:07 okay 14:30:43 i'm going to rewrite the code mostly from scratch in an attempt to make it more readable and extendable 14:32:37 ok. Let me know if you need any advice or have question about the code. 14:33:08 i will, thanks! 14:33:23 psh readability 14:33:31 if you do it right you'll only touch it once 14:37:42 i meant for galehar :D 14:37:52 but also that's horrifying 14:40:20 i should work as a software development consultant 14:41:06 if you're not writing in perl, it should be readable :P 14:41:24 if you are working in perl then intentionally obfuscate it 14:41:56 if you are writing in perl, then you shouldn't be ;) 14:41:56 meh, I've written readable Perl before 14:54:43 Zannick: then in what? Python with its Fortran 77 throwbacks? Visual Basic? 14:55:13 * Zannick blinks 14:55:49 (another channel i'm in was talking about fortran 77 and vbasic just a few hours ago) 14:55:54 also, python has fortran77 throwbacks? 14:55:55 I used to write a lot of Perl at work and I had to move to Python recently. It's nice. 14:56:15 i write mostly in python 14:56:38 but i also have some minor c++ things at work 14:56:43 kilobyte: also, you forgot powershell 14:56:47 * galehar ducks 14:56:53 Zannick: you can't even use sane indentation, only what the language forces you to. If I wanted BDSM, I know where to find it. 14:57:08 (kill a black dragon, skin it... :p) 14:57:19 sane indentation? like what? 14:57:43 i think the indentation style i use in python is pretty sane 14:57:50 bdsm more like java 14:57:57 my favorite language is better than yours 14:58:16 there are cases when the code would be more readable if you weren't forced into one particular scheme 14:58:18 and you can use any indentation between ( and ) or [ and ] 14:58:27 like, a trivial loop in one line 14:58:37 list comprehensions! 14:58:52 kilobyte: it has some flexibility. Like you can you "if then" on liner 14:59:36 probably works for loops too. If the block is a single instruction, you can put it on the same line after the : 14:59:36 the "a if b else c" ternary operator is okay but weird 14:59:49 oh, yes, that 14:59:52 yeah, that is fine 15:00:06 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:15 yeah, I'm not too fond of the ternary operator either 15:00:39 and there's no switch (perl hasn't really either) 15:01:33 i haven't run into cases where i would strictly prefer a switch for performance reasons, but yeah 15:04:05 Cannot play .10 webtiles - screen sticks at "Starting Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup a75c42d..." (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5403) by Guppyfry 15:10:48 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:14 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:23 a pox on whoever invented "eveningstars"! How the hell am I supposed to translate _that_? 15:30:16 it would be pretty easy in swedish... 15:30:25 aren't the pox (virtually) extinct? :) 15:30:43 but morningstar might not be translated directly in other languages... 15:33:09 what does "Gwiazda Wieczorna" mean? 15:33:19 and how is morningstar translated into polish? 15:33:57 in Polish there's a crapload of synonyms and near-synonyms (for variants) for morningstars, flails (of "stick on a chain", "spiked ball on a chain", "multiple spiked balls on a chain", "horse's jaw on a chain"), etc, but none seem to be any fitting 15:34:21 <|amethyst> wikipedia used the german-derived Morgensztern 15:34:32 <|amethyst> maybe Abendsztern? 15:34:32 yeah, that's the most common one 15:34:39 isn't eveningstar a crawlism build afert morningstar? 15:34:41 won't work unless you know German 15:34:48 bhaak: it is, yeah 15:35:17 I can't think of a decent joke... can at most pick some of synonyms, but that'd be lame 15:36:25 it is also strange for english, if you ask me, as evening star is the name for venus and not of a weapon (exactly like in German and probably lots of other languages) 15:36:36 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:48 <|amethyst> morning star is both the name of venus and a weapon 15:36:56 "killer klown" or "death cob" are no problems in this case (I can use a colloquial misspelling for the former, a rare fun word for the latter), but I guess a number of languages will have problems there 15:37:00 stupid greeks, not noticing that the morning star and the eveing star is the same planet before naming them 15:37:11 bhaak: yeah :p 15:37:13 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:37:30 <|amethyst> I once read a philosophy book with an entire chapter or two on that 15:37:45 <|amethyst> and the semantics of statements that refer to one, the other, or both 15:37:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:59 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 15:38:04 hrm, my idea for Polish version for "death cob" is too close to "curse skull", dammit 15:38:27 <|amethyst> 'Cicero' and 'Tully' are also used in similar examples 15:38:45 does your 'curse skull' translation make a reference to corn? 15:39:16 -!- GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:17 no, a colloquial word for "cob" is also a colloquial one for "skull" (or sometimes "head") 15:41:50 what about something that's closer to death corn 15:43:31 that's what it basically is 15:44:22 still, several hours and I'm only 1/3 into items.txt :( 15:46:12 he, that's not slow! 15:47:16 of course, dpeg and Napkin will shy away from translating, and bhaak will claim he does Nethack only. Galehar will surely find some random volunteer (there are always hordes of frog eaters keen on un-anglicizing something), Russkies know English good enough and are lazy, ... 15:48:30 s/will claim.*only/will claim he knows Crawl not well enough/ 15:48:32 :-) 15:48:39 :p 15:49:07 also, no one ever reads descriptions and documentation 15:49:54 could have skipped this and start with actual in-game messages, which are complex to code but have relatively few strings 15:49:57 exactly :-D 15:50:10 but that doesn't make them easier 15:53:04 translating, say, monsters into Polish is a matter of making a table that contains 1. grammatical gender, 2. seven word cases of the noun, 3. plural (IIRC Crawl never used plurals in non-nominative) 15:54:15 only for monster or also for items? 15:55:22 less grammar is needed there, but yeah 15:55:38 not all seven grammatical cases are going to be ever used, too 15:56:42 German noun cases change only the article but not the noun itself, right? 15:57:15 if so, all you need there is 1. translating the noun itself, and 2. its gender 15:57:33 you are wrong about that 15:58:01 there are different endings for different caes 15:58:05 *cases 15:58:21 yeah, not sure if there are irregular nouns, though 15:58:35 probably. its german. :( 15:58:37 also, some change the stem, like Hand -> Hände 15:59:02 right, and there we have an example :/ 15:59:23 that's plural, not case 16:00:03 they also remove all spaces 16:00:16 or at least that's what I get from looking at anything in german 16:00:26 no we dont 16:00:38 just some, and its very useful 16:00:41 kilobyte: ah, you meant for the same grammatical number? yes, in that case i think there is no change in stem ever 16:00:57 bhaak: i wouldnt be so sure about that. its german. 16:01:23 i could ask a few non-native speakers, but i just left, so i wont 16:01:58 apparently, german is a horrible language. im so happy i dont need to worry about all the crap. 16:02:03 it is 16:02:03 ogsus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:03:00 I mean, in Polish "orc" has seven forms: nom. "ork", gen. "orka", dat. "orkowi", acc. "orka", ins. "orkiem", loc. "orku", (no one ever used the vocative). Then again the same in plural. 16:03:16 s/used/uses/ 16:03:32 eastern european languages only count as one language, though 16:03:38 :P 16:03:44 http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/awfgrmlg.html 16:03:47 for verbs, multiply that with five grammatical genders 16:03:55 alefury: it's not as bad as some slavic languages. there even native speakers sometimes don't know what case is the right one :) 16:04:24 <|amethyst> kilobyte: same with noun cases in German, but the fully-declined form is typically used only when there is no article to carry the information 16:04:30 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_grammar#Cases 16:04:31 alefury: 1. Polish is central not eastern, 2. it has little grammar compared to Russian 16:04:34 BlastHardcheese: actually, Twain LOVED German. but people don't recognize a good joke 16:04:37 bhaak: thats the case in any language. stupid people are everywhere, and it doesnt even take stupidity to lack a good grasp of your language. 16:05:04 |amethyst: so you need to carry a table of every noun case then? Or is it at least mostly regular? 16:05:24 <|amethyst> mostly regular 16:05:28 i think nouns are mostly regular. verbs are ~50% irregular i think 16:05:51 <|amethyst> only if you count strong verbs as irregular 16:05:59 you know who else loved german 16:06:05 well yeah. i thought that was the definition of strong verbs? 16:06:06 adjectives are completely regular, either they don't change at all or have ~23 different forms :) 16:06:20 peter the great 16:06:41 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:06:45 kilobyte: can you write a little doc on how to translate? So that I can forward it to the hordes of frog eaters. Thanks :) 16:07:11 also, have you seen the korean translating project? 16:07:54 german wikipeda claims German has ~200 irregular verbs, French 570, Polish 88, Japanese 2 and Chinese 1 16:08:21 french grammar is insane 16:08:27 galehar: yeah... it's astonishing how little grammar Korean has (heck, they even tried using gettext!), but there's still a crapload of special cases 16:08:37 bhaak: you mean, Polish does even have regular ones? 16:09:04 bhaak: i'm sure thats not counting strong verbs (i just looked up the definition) 16:09:23 kilobyte: that's not clear from the table. maybe it's 88 different verb _forms_ :) 16:09:26 bhaak: I've seen a list of verb declinations somewhere... IIRC 18 main ways, each with 3-5 subvariants 16:09:47 verbs are conjugated btw 16:09:58 natives don't even bother with any formal rules, it's something you memorize/do intuitively 16:10:23 and somehow no one gets it wrong, unlike spelling 16:10:25 kilobyte: that is, until they run into problems 16:10:56 wait, shit, you're talking about korean 16:11:07 kilobyte: it makes sense that the human brain is good at spoken language 16:11:26 alefury: do you know http://canoo.net/ ? it's the best resource for the grammar of german for people with a coder's mind 16:11:46 i dont. i also dont give a shit about grammar. all my , are wrong all the time. 16:11:47 <|amethyst> It's the same with all languages, until you start talking about formal or literary registers 16:12:12 actually, spelling in korean is sometimes weird, but otherwise, the grammar and other language rules are relatively straightforward (as compared to english, my other main language) 16:12:20 <|amethyst> if using the spoken language required explicitly memorizing rules, the language would change in a generation or two so that it didn't 16:12:48 galehar: anyway, attempts to translate using gettext are completely pointless if there's grammar involved -- even numerals is something that has a nasty incomplete special casing 16:12:59 |amethyst: it does. its just that the rules are hammered into the brain from a young age 16:13:21 <|amethyst> I'd say they're not learned as rules though 16:13:29 they are learned as brainthings 16:13:42 |amethyst: case in point, Chinese signs. They have no ties to the word's pronouciation whatsoever; there are many Chinese spoken language but one written one. 16:13:44 and yeah, it makes sense that language is something the human brain is good at 16:13:53 or that language has evolved into something the human brain is good at 16:14:08 and vice versa 16:14:21 yeah, you often get little kids that follow the "rules" and get wrong words as they haven't learned the exceptions yet 16:14:43 <|amethyst> Pinker has a good book, _Words and Rules_, on that topic 16:14:46 gettext can still be good for the tables, though. Especially if we make a tool that makes the .pot file. 16:14:52 but you've started translating already, right? So I can tell the wanna be translators to get started too. You're translating stuff under dat/database? 16:14:56 i met a russian girl a while ago, she was speaking the most perfect german i have ever heard. it was super weird. 16:15:19 galehar: I started with dat/descript/ as it's a low-hanging fruit: nothing to think about. 16:15:41 dat/database/ is more tricky as most texts there are formed from parts 16:15:46 ok 16:16:05 galehar: probably premature to even think about asking for help yet, though 16:16:18 I'd better write some code so we know it even works 16:16:48 I wanted to have at least a single file done so I can identify what kinks there are. 16:17:01 hmm, crawl-simlish 16:17:36 already found two related to decks: it's plenty of hard work to get the "It is usually found in decks of X, Y and Z." part 16:18:01 hm. in german that would be easy. 16:18:03 where is the work on translation? is there a link? or can i find it in the repos? 16:18:05 and the same for decks themselves: "It may contain the following cards:" 16:18:17 ogsus: not yet really 16:18:24 kilobyte: you mean the "it"? 16:20:20 uhm, what "it", how "it", who "it"? (too confused, probably due to being tired) 16:20:53 i think he means "it" as in "it is usually found..." 16:20:57 what is the hard stuff in "It is usually found in decks of X, Y and Z." 16:21:08 kilobyte: ok, let me know when we can start other translations 16:21:16 !time 16:21:18 Time: Mar 08, 2012, 10:21:18 PM, UTC. The 2012 0.10 tournament ends in 3 days, 1 hour, 38 minutes and 41 seconds. 16:21:29 bhaak: it's copied 5698745698347689347 times, every time with a different list 16:21:46 which screams of "needs to be done in code instead" 16:22:04 ah 16:22:14 kilobyte: i think thats a bad train of thought to get onto if youre thinking about translations 16:22:25 also that was horrible english :( 16:23:08 im pretty sure most translated stuff just has canned strings that are translated 16:23:34 because translating coded grammar is horrible 16:23:52 because it requires translaters who can code 16:23:58 alefury: that's all what gettext can do, and somehow it's enough for 99.9% of software 16:24:00 that's what gettext is designed for 16:24:42 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:07 getting a bunch of people to translate a list of strings shouldnt be hard. getting them to iron out the kinks from lack of context should still be doable. coding all the grammar for lots of different languages, not so much. 16:25:30 regular programs have strings like "Dynamically set title:", "Show window borders" or "Enable anti-aliasing for terminal font". Not a trace of grammar involved. 16:25:45 im talking about games 16:26:04 AAA games really, with voiced dialogs 16:26:15 so there are also other reasons for the string-type structure 16:27:02 civ4 still had something like "People of $CITY have revolted." 16:27:19 which translates horribly into German. I don't know if they got it better for civ5 16:27:55 i usually play games in english, and i didnt play a lot of civ5 16:28:22 german translations tend to be okay though from what i heard, because its a big market and companies actually put in some effort/money 16:29:08 usually that's the case. if you got gettext like stuff. if it's more complicated ... all bets are off :) 16:29:21 -!- fdel has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:24 i dont think its really a problem for crawl, working out the kinks over 1-2 versions is easy if you set up a way to give feedback easily (translation mantis?) 16:29:26 mom, i'll search for the worst example i know 16:30:07 bhaak: what's the closest German translation of that? 16:30:13 that doesn't sound completely weird? 16:30:26 for the revolting things? 16:30:33 bhaak: that's why I want to do it right from the start 16:30:44 Known bug? Put an exclusion on Maurice (or another unique), pulsating lump it, remove all exclusions => Maurice annotation remains 16:30:46 "The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion" had a "light potion of healing". It was translated as "Schwachen Trank der Lebensenergie-Wiederherstellung" (something like "light potion of life energy restoration) and because this didn't fit into the UI they abbreviated it to "Schw. Tr. d. Le.en.-W." 16:31:00 ais523: the people revolting? 16:31:02 hahaha awesome 16:31:03 bhaak: yes 16:31:10 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:20 Die Bevölkerung von $CITY rebelliert! 16:31:23 something like that i guess 16:31:41 its not great because i suck at everything language related 16:31:42 I seem to remember that Microsoft always does the German translation first after English, in order to make sure the strings will fit in every language 16:32:34 great futurama episode title btw: "the mutants are revolting" 16:33:07 alefury: meh, it's a really /really/ old joke 16:33:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:16 so old that I doubt the original source will be easy to identify 16:33:17 so what? 16:33:28 still good 16:34:14 sorry, im cranky, there are singing, clapping, guitar playing spanish people downstairs. 16:34:55 Felyza (L9 FeWz) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:7) 16:35:51 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:18 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 16:48:23 oh, there is one strange case in german with nouns: http://canoo.net/services/OnlineGrammar/InflectionRules/FRegeln-N/FKlassen/Adjektivisch1.html?MenuId=Word11112&lang=en 16:48:48 the actual form of the noun's ending depends on the article used (none, indefinite, definite) 16:51:53 nounized adjectives... 16:52:22 English went a wimpy way here with "one": "golden one", "shining one", etc 16:53:31 they have the cool feature of being usable with every gender 16:53:48 makes them an instant hit for gender conscious people 16:53:55 bhaak: what gender do they have grammatically? or is it inconsistent? 16:54:02 if I read this correctly, nounized adjectives still inflect as if they were adjectives 16:54:11 (same happens in Polish, by the way) 16:54:34 ais523: all 3 of them. depends on the real world subject they are applied to. 16:54:39 so it's the same as if they were attached to a null noun 16:55:07 kilobyte: yes 16:55:10 bhaak: so "shining one" is gender-neutral but "the shining one" is gender-specific? 16:55:28 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:01 ais523: no. (der|die|das) Leuchtend-e; male: ein Leuchtend-er; female: eine Leuchtend-e; neuter: ein Leuchtend-es 16:57:51 without article: Leuchtend-er, Leuchtend-e, Leuchtend-es 16:57:56 oh, you mean that the gender conscious people like to show off what gender is involved 16:58:06 speaking of TSO... I'm afraid I have to break one of core rules of Crawl: it's almost impossible to translate god-related messages into Polish without assigning them genders 16:58:25 it's specific in singular, but not different in plural 16:58:28 kilobyte: you could randomize? 16:58:34 ais523: ... 16:58:39 that would look pretty weird, actually 16:58:45 at least Xom should be randomized :) 16:58:51 hehe 16:59:22 so half of games would have TSO be "Åšwielisty" and half "Åšwietlista"? :p (With the rest of inflection following...) 16:59:38 no, half of the times it appeared in any given game 16:59:56 won't work 17:00:20 I've been awake around 27 to 28 hours at this point, btw 17:00:24 so don't expect me to make much sense 17:00:33 I'm already getting real life and videogames confused 17:00:56 luckily, it turns out that I attempt to attack people by thinking at them, which doesn't work in real life and they don't notice, so there's no actual problem 17:00:58 if you refer to someone as male, and then use "her", it means whatever female you were talking about last, even if it happened X pages before 17:01:10 hmm 17:01:36 usually it's just confusing 17:01:39 can't you use neuter? making TSO into a concept like nirvana? 17:01:57 also, even static descriptions would need to be randomized, which means tons of work 17:02:09 no, a person is either male or female 17:02:28 is tso a person? :P 17:02:55 in English, "You see a soldier, it wears a green uniform." raises an eyebrow, in Polish, most people won't even parse the sentence at all 17:03:11 i see 17:03:17 "You see a divine force, it wears a green uniform" 17:03:23 no problem at all if you don't imply that whatever it is is a person 17:03:31 a neuter sentient being is a grammatical impossibility in polish? 17:03:31 file a bug against the Polish bug tracker 17:03:42 a little hard to /visualise/, because most people's mental images of divine forces couldn't easily wear uniform 17:03:48 it sharply restricts possible sentences, though 17:03:54 did Lem know that? :-) 17:04:27 * due fetches the polish remover? 17:04:52 bhaak: there's one exception, "child". The word refers to children whose gender you don't care about, though, so if you mention the name, you need to follow with proper forms. 17:05:04 hmm, interesting 17:05:51 in items.txt, I already went with TSO being male everywhere ("blessed toothpick") 17:06:25 whereas in german and many of its dialect you often apply neuter to persons, Mädchen being the best known example 17:06:35 kilobyte: how do you refer to people whose gender you don't know? 17:06:43 do you have to guess? 17:06:59 it's grammatically male 17:07:02 admittedly that's awkward even in English, but there are workarounds, like singular they 17:07:21 (with only one exception I can think of, "prostitute") 17:07:26 sometimes people (probably mostly women) get the neuter case even if you address them with their name. some find that insulting :-) 17:07:56 "führer" vs "führerin", right? 17:09:28 no, this is something else. 17:10:45 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: gn8] 17:12:40 you don't notice it often in standard german, but in many dialects the difference between definite and demonstrative pronouns is still blurred (because of how they developed a 1000 years ago). in the English sentence "What did Ursi do" you don't have an article, but in german dialects you can have something like "What did the Ursi do" and "the" can either be die or das. 17:13:25 depending from where Ursi is, she might find it offensive to get the same gender as a thing :) 17:15:19 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:15:41 yeah, in Polish it's a grave but rare insult... you do need to make it very clear what you mean, because otherwise the mismatched pronoun would mean something else (or nothing at all) 17:16:56 hrm, my sentences sense no make 17:17:30 need to make a bed break, badly. The translations I'm writing are getting too sarcastic as well. 17:20:21 travel_wall_bias is working pretty well. It seems to be more efficient and I haven't run into any bug. Maybe we should activate it. 17:20:49 Default value was 10 seems a bit high. I'm experimenting with 5 now. 17:21:21 if anyone has tested it and has some feedback, let me know 17:21:35 03kilobyte * r45e95188cc58 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Correct an outdated description. 17:21:35 03kilobyte * rc385f02e1320 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ (items.txt unident.txt): Drop two unused descriptions. 17:21:35 03kilobyte * re025ad37a0e6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Fix an obsolete description: there are no penalties for "wasteful card use". 17:21:35 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:18 terpsichore's shuffled off this mortal coil completely? 17:26:39 well, isn't hidden in the code anymore 17:26:48 when you know inner flame, ugly things are walking land mines. Very convenient :) 17:27:24 bah, testing out portal vault or serial vault versions of blade or an integration with tukima's studio or whatever will be more annoying 17:28:32 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 17:34:13 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:54 what on earth is terpscihore 17:36:26 A unique that used tukima's ball, which animates all weapons in sight. 17:36:56 that is kickass. 17:37:36 It's either harmless or stupidly powerful where she used to spawn, hence removal I think. 17:37:39 nfogravity: gone now, in any case 17:39:36 ?? terpsichore 17:39:37 terpsichore[1/1]: A pretty, pink p. She wants you to dance with her. But she's never existed in a stable release. 17:42:16 ugh one day i will memorize or write down how to display the current version in git 17:42:30 hey i got it! 17:44:18 the current version as in...? 17:44:24 like the last commit? 17:45:02 yeah 17:45:05 git describe. 17:46:58 new wizard mode function wizard_file_input() (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5404) by nfogravity 17:47:04 that was fast, chei 17:48:19 it was actually very slow 17:48:28 whole seconds 17:54:16 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 17:57:54 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:57:54 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:45 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:42 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 18:02:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:03 -!- fdel has left ##crawl-dev 18:04:13 -!- cosh has quit [] 18:10:57 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:43 nfogravity: dang, you code fast 18:13:17 i've been slacking on my real research 18:14:05 research? 18:21:39 i'm a math grad student 18:22:09 ooh what are you researching 18:22:43 nfogravity: mini-dpeg! 18:23:12 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:26:16 i'm an algebraic topologist 18:26:57 my area of interest is high-dimensional manifolds 18:28:13 the only advanced algebra stuff i ever did was tropical geometry, but you still have my thorough respect :) 18:28:39 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:28:43 and if we wanna be super-specific and technical, right now i'm working with cobordism of manifolds with singularities, multiplicative genera, and assembly maps for spin structures 18:29:23 why aren't you working on the ranged combat rewrite 18:29:29 (don't do this) 18:30:14 because in order to do that, i need a quick way of getting a lot of combat data 18:30:23 to get a lot of combat data, i need a working fsim 18:30:33 Mattchew (L27 OpFE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (Crypt:3) 18:30:50 and the first step to getting fsim working properly is the function i just uploaded 18:32:18 nfogravity: what's an fsim? 18:32:21 probably it's a good idea to do your real work :P 18:32:27 well yes that too 18:32:52 ogsus -- the fight simulator 18:38:05 Orshelack (L27 MiMo) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (Pan) 18:42:36 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:53 nfogravity: should there be a new wizmode command added for wizard_file_input()? I'm not sure how it's supposed to be used right now 18:50:24 yes, that's what i added 18:50:38 oh i see what you're askin 18:50:54 it's for the fight simulator rewrite, i didn't bind it to a key 18:50:56 but i could 18:56:47 ah, you haven't done the fsim part yet. that makes more sense 18:56:55 also, what does this comment mean: // HP 23/23 AC 3 Str 21 XL: 1 Next: 0% 18:57:15 that's the line that it reads, the only one that it can read as far as i know 18:57:37 from which it pulls the 6th slot, in this case "21" 18:59:40 <|amethyst> it means somebody died or quit very quickly with an OgBe 19:00:02 nfogravity: oh, duh, it's a line from a morgue file 19:03:17 darksquall (L2 MfDK) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:1) 19:12:48 03nfogravity * r5fa2bd818009 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dbg-util.cc dbg-util.h wiz-you.cc wiz-you.h): added a wizard mode function, wizard_file_input(), that takes a morgue file by name and changes skill levels and base stats to the morgue file's levels 19:12:48 03evilmike * r0882b9120d00 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-you.cc: Whitespace fix. 19:13:15 thanks mike 19:13:36 no problem 19:13:37 ooooo 19:13:48 that'll also help a bit with vault testing 19:13:50 I guess this thing will be confused if you happen to name your character "Gold" 19:14:04 or "HP" i imagine 19:14:07 but... don't 19:14:10 HangedMan: it's not bound to anything at the moment, although I imagine it could be useful for vault testing 19:14:46 how do you balance-test vaults now? just hack up a character in wizmode? 19:14:53 more or less, yeah 19:14:55 certainly would help with constantly making wizmode characters after stupid crashes I can't identify anything about or things like that 19:15:05 HangedMan: you'll still need to give it items the hard way 19:15:37 yeah, peh 19:16:13 when i press ctrl+f to find something, then either ? or shift+b, the game immediately crashes 19:18:17 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:19 well feel free to hack on it, right now it's really the bare minimum i need to test combat data 19:25:42 Swiss (L19 MiFi) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: No buffer space available (D:18) 19:44:37 evilmike: not if you make it a felid!! 19:44:51 balance all vaults around felids 19:46:35 balance all vaults around felid berserkers 19:46:47 have to put hydras in d:27 19:47:12 claws really shouldn't cut hydra heads :( 19:47:18 except for trolls, possibly 19:47:55 but then why will ghouls wear any not decent gloves 19:48:17 'wow that thing has claws the size of butcher knives' is a lot less impressive when that's the size of one of the blade in crawl 19:48:25 er, one of the smallest 19:48:43 which can't hack hydra heads off. 19:49:07 you apparently need at least a foot of metal to be able to cut through them sufficiently 19:49:24 what do ice beast fists count as 19:49:35 also, not solely metal, statue form claws works too 19:49:48 ...alongside bone or whatever 19:49:51 found my ctrl+f bug on mantis - found that my bug applies to everything before 2/24, and my build was from 2/23 :P 19:50:05 HangedMan: sure, but the idea is that felids just don't have that much claw 19:50:09 well yes 19:50:14 trolls arguably might, but even then it seems iffy 19:51:07 i don't think ice beasts sever hydra heads do they? they shouldn't 19:51:31 they do not 19:52:04 I wouldn't mind making claws in general not chop off heads, yeah 19:52:33 it causes strange things like ghouls putting on gloves 19:53:55 i feel like if most sbl don't chop off heads, you could make a reasonable argument that most claws are NOT longer than most sbl 19:54:07 and therefore shouldn't chop off heads 19:54:28 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:02 well, half of sbl chop off heads and half do not 19:55:14 ogsus: you mean the argument i just made? :P 19:55:29 Eronarn: exactry 19:55:30 i don't think claws on any non-large race even come close 19:55:36 so that'd be: trolls, dragons 19:55:55 but really, do you think trolls have blades as long as sabres? 19:56:08 claws* 19:56:17 i think trolls are supposed to have claw-like hands 19:56:17 can be as short as short swords :P 19:56:21 rather than hands with sharp fingernails 19:57:18 i see - can trolls put on gloves? 19:57:19 <|amethyst> are hydra necks especially fragile or something? 20:00:24 that would be a sensible evolutionary trait, surely! 20:00:35 <|amethyst> I was thinking the same thing 20:00:46 haha 20:01:47 ogsus: no, they can't 20:02:55 so trolls either use summons or try to outdamage? 20:03:18 |amethyst: in df, hydras bleed to death from severed heads, apparently :) 20:03:31 ogsus: or wands, or just avoid them, or wield flaming weapons... 20:04:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:08 this is the reason i'll never be good at crawl - i can only ever come up with 2 options :( 20:05:58 don't worry, look at all the options i came up with and how bad i am at crawl 20:07:32 Eronarn: well, apparently i have a long ways to go to be bad at crawl if that's bad 20:07:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:33 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:15:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:18:03 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 20:28:14 -!- MakMorn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:52 -!- SamB_XP_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:53 -!- SamB_XP has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:36:18 -!- evilmike_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:39 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:59 -!- MakMorn has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:29 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:38 -!- evilmike has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:49 -!- SamB_XP has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:48 -!- SamB_XP_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:01:27 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:02:10 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:34 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:51 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:12 -!- SamB_XP has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:12 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:16:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:33 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:53 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:45:29 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 22:03:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:02 OneEyedJack the Wrestler (L20 DrWr) ASSERT(y >= 1 && y <= sz.y) in 'libutil.cc' at line 942 failed on turn 85790. (Vault:8) 22:05:45 go team xy 22:07:52 -!- ogsus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:01 -!- ogsus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:40 Sometimes identify enchantments on weapons and ammo without wielding/using (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5405) by spacewolf009 22:46:06 -!- evilmike_ has quit [Quit: something happened] 22:56:31 Gilihad the Sneak (L2 HaEE) (D:1) 23:22:19 -!- SamB_XP has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:19 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:00 -!- SamB_XP_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:03 -!- SamB_XP has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:43:05 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 23:50:43 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 23:51:16 -!- Dixie_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:20 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 23:53:10 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss) 23:53:21 xnavy (L24 MfDK) (Elf:5) 23:54:25 -!- Dixbert has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:57:13 xnavy (L24 MfDK) (Elf:5) 23:57:49 -!- xnavy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:27 Synoecium (L10 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Abyss)