00:03:02 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:02 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:03:03 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 00:03:46 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-359-g3882fbc (32) 00:21:26 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-359-g3882fbc 01:28:07 eino_curves_02 and 04 are surprisingly deadly vaults it seems.. it'd probably be too much hassle to make it possible to turn off reporting furniture/feature vaults. 01:29:04 at least "furniture/feature" tag would be a lot of work. But it might be feasible to check if the vault has non-firewood MONS lines etc. 01:37:14 03Keskitalo * rb0117f371bcf 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Correct spacing. 01:38:34 Hehehe, KILLED_BY_WINNING 01:51:34 Meh, maybe later. 02:34:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:48:45 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:54 nfogravity: I can certainly help with skills.cc. I rewrote a good part of it. I also made a few fixes in fsim, but nothing significant. 02:56:01 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 3.6.27/20120216013254]] 02:59:16 oh thank you 02:59:26 i'm going to completely rewrite fsim 03:00:09 i fixed the error that was making it not display melee damage correctly, but it could be a lot more useful 03:01:59 i'm going to have 'f' work while targeting a monster in vision and have crawl output the information directly 03:02:18 because right now it makes a lot of silly arbitrary assumptions 03:03:19 and if you want to see the effect of, say, different levels of Fighting at a fixed level of other data 03:03:38 you just wizmode your character to that data, then ctrl-f the monster, then hit fighting 03:03:59 and it outputs the data for all 27 levels of skill to an output file, like what it does now 03:07:27 and i realized i didn't use your name in this ramble so here it is galehar 03:10:56 anyway sleeptime 03:11:02 -!- nfogravity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:25 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:25 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:13:26 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 03:15:18 !tell nfogravity I have plans for fsim too. We should try to discuss it some other time. 03:15:18 galehar: OK, I'll let nfogravity know. 03:26:47 about the db: currently, descriptions need to be written in a single line if they want to be wrapped. This makes them very hard to read. 03:27:18 what about requiring explicit newlines instead? 03:27:37 Orphaned games in WebTiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5393) by Eldray 03:35:11 kilobyte: that's what we have in the docs and it's a pain to edit 03:35:31 can't you enable autowrap in your editor? 03:35:45 Couldn't it just remove all newlines and then wrap? 03:36:48 ghallberg: as I said, manually wrapped text are a PITA to edit 03:37:02 galehar: after autowrapping, you have to remove newlines before saving 03:37:09 which is exactly what I want to avoid 03:37:37 galehar: My point was that you could add whatever newlines you wanted while writing and then the program would strip them out and wrap as needed. 03:37:46 galehar: not if it's done HTML-like, by newlines acting like spaces 03:37:58 don't you have "soft" autowrap? Text is wrapped on screen, but no newline is inserted. 03:38:01 I think vi can do this 03:39:06 for example, art-data.txt does this the way I and ghallberg are talking about 03:39:47 ie, newlines go away, and one description uses explicit newlines (marked as "\n") 03:40:37 I'm evicting descs out of art-data.txt to the database, so it can be translated, so it'd get the wrapping problem 03:42:03 art-data is manually wrapped like docs, and it's a pain to edit also. The only difference is you do it incorrectly, it will be fixed. 03:45:28 what do you mean by "do it incorrectly"? 03:46:02 if you don't respect the 80 col wrapping 03:46:45 s/is you/if you/ 03:47:21 yeah, for item descriptions you HAVE to do that incorrectly (by that definition) 03:47:43 while art-data accepts both wrapped and non-wrapped input, and shows it nicely 03:50:27 editing manually wrapped text is really terrible. Add a single word and you have to manually rewrap the whole thing. I don't see the point of it. Let the editor do the work ("softly") and each person can have the text width of his preference. 03:51:26 galehar: Our proposal would only allow you to manually wrap whiel editing and letting the parser strip and wrap like you suggested. 03:51:32 Manual wrapping is the devil. 03:53:15 I see. So it only works if you use an editor that does auto wrap by actually inserting newlines and everyone use the same text width. I find it... inelegant 03:53:53 I... no... 03:54:00 Uhm. I dunno. 03:54:10 I don't know of an editor which wraps text behind your back... and I'd consider it broken as it'd hide the text's structure from you 03:54:36 :set wm=0 03:54:49 text is visually wrapped, but no newline inserted 03:55:17 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:21 you can display line numbers if you need to distinguish wrapped line from actual new lines 03:55:47 heh, even the official docs for vi say it's "generally a bad idea" 03:56:39 whatever 03:56:52 * galehar grumbles something about old bearded hackers 03:57:37 It's a nice idea :) 03:57:47 is 34 that old? And trimming the beard once in three months instead of shaving daily saves a lot of time and makes me look hot :p 03:57:49 Depending on what you're writing of course. 03:58:05 I'm on ly 25... 03:58:13 And I obviously can't write >.< 03:58:14 kilobyte: I'll be 34 in 5 months ;) 03:58:19 Oldies. 03:58:42 ghallberg: you're slightly older than me, then 03:58:49 ais523: :) 03:58:58 ais523: how much? 03:59:16 Btw I hate UPS. 03:59:18 I'll be 25 in about a month 03:59:24 so it rather depends on when your birthday is 03:59:35 Ah, I turned 25 four days ago :D 04:00:05 How can they think it's reasonable to have dwelivery "sometime between 9.00 and 19.00" 04:01:46 I... haven't even turned 24 yet :( 04:01:52 ghallberg: they think hard how to make you miserable no matter if they deliver to your home or work 04:02:14 kilobyte: Luckily Iäm still in school so I can sit at home and study for midterms... 04:02:20 But dammit, I want that computer. 04:02:21 Does anyone know what the state of audio output is on tiles? And... potentially even console? 04:02:45 Because I will definitely be trying to compose stuff for it; it would have to be a separate pack, obviously, to reduce size, but it would be nice to have background music for each branches. 04:02:46 due: basically, nearly utterly unmaintained. 04:02:54 Hmm. 04:03:12 you can't do audio over plain telnet/ssh, which is probably the more common way to play console 04:03:12 due: I fixed a security bug some time ago, it turned out it broke audio for a couple of releases and no one complained. 04:03:38 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:38 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:03:39 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 04:03:50 I looked into it, looks like sdl_sound is straightforward to use and would do just The Right Thing 04:04:22 Okay 04:04:25 ais523: Yes, I know 04:04:30 there's one issue: it'd be great to get stereo and/or surround sound, except, it'd leak information out of LOS 04:04:48 kilobyte: limit it to LOS only? 04:04:51 due: Did you happen to read the TIGsource article/review? Paul Eres wanted music in the game. (I'm in favour, I like music in games. You can always turn it off. If the filesize gets too big, the download can be made optional.) 04:04:54 Well, branch-specific musioc (with differening themes for depths of the dungeon maybe). 04:04:57 LOS in Crawl is abstract, no reason LOH shouldn't be too 04:04:59 Keskitalo: Yes! 04:05:03 like in DoomRL where you know where enemies come from -- both angle and distance 04:05:07 Keskitalo: That's what I meant by having a separate pack 04:05:12 Ah, you already mentioned separate packing. 04:05:23 there is music for NetHack, but it doesn't really vary by branch 04:05:24 Keskitalo: That's what reminded me about getting music into crawl. 04:05:29 except for the endgame 04:05:31 Unfortunately I am a mediocre musician and an even worse composer sooo. 04:05:32 (it's used in Vulture) 04:05:37 due: What do you use for composing? I use trackers, Renoise most recently. 04:05:47 Keskitalo: A ... piano :) 04:05:49 due: I can give feedback. 04:05:50 Cool! 04:05:50 I use a physical piano for composing 04:05:55 and Rosegarden to enter it into a computer 04:05:59 Plugged into pianoteq <4 04:06:04 ais523: Do you quantize? 04:06:26 due: when I'm entering music into a computer, I do it turn-based not real-time 04:06:30 so quantizing would be a no-op 04:06:43 (Procedural music would be nice though!) 04:06:44 oooh 04:06:50 turn-based in rosegarden? 04:06:54 due: I can't try to get sdl_sound working right now, I can try it in the evening if you wish 04:07:00 (LĂLinl is, incidentally, very good with procedural music.) 04:07:09 due: it's pretty much a case of choosing note length, then pressing relevant key 04:07:12 Linley I mean. 04:07:16 kilobyte: Oh, god, no rush 04:07:20 ais523: Rosegarden does this? 04:07:26 would work great everywhere but online console 04:07:27 yes 04:07:30 kilobyte: Like I said, very very mediocre composer here :) 04:07:31 most music editors do 04:07:37 ais523: I need to get more used to rosegarden. 04:07:42 ais523: Do you use pianoteq? 04:07:45 it's in the notation editor 04:07:49 and no, just vanilla Rosegarden 04:08:00 Pianoteq is so amazing. The dynamic power <3. 04:08:25 due: actually, I guess sound effects would be better to look into first 04:09:00 There's no reason to hold back on music before sound effects. 04:09:39 they're pretty much completely independent, apart from (sometimes) code-wise 04:09:48 Well, what about style? 04:10:19 I really like the Catacomb Snatch soundtrack 04:10:34 hmm, there's some similarity between various roguelike musics, I think 04:10:48 Well, maybe you want to make sure that music doesn't overlap sound effects.. for instance, you may want to reserve some frequencies for them and not use them so much in music. (Or something like that anyway.) 04:10:52 Having a basic, musical theme with instruments, which then varies with electronic stuff :D 04:10:59 although Pokémon Mystery Dungeon breaks the mold there, it can be remarkably upbeat 04:11:06 Minor-key music <# 04:11:14 "is less than sharp"? 04:12:20 Listening to the Catacom Snatch soundtrack now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxI5iqNxSto) 04:12:24 let's not get into Microsoft's lack of Unicode, you want â™Ż 04:12:35 <3, actually :D 04:12:44 There was that burrrnning hearrrrt againnn 04:12:58 Keskitalo: I really like it! But my musical taste, at least towards piano/composition, is quiet minor-key :) 04:13:17 due: I like music to be minor-key but not sad 04:13:32 background music is supposed to be background 04:13:35 although I've come up with the occasional joyful upbeat stuff instead 04:13:43 happy minor-key music can still be awesome :D 04:15:38 I like it to be, umm, "adventurous" 04:16:20 I don't know about style, but it (naturally) needs to be considered that any given piece may be played for long stretches. 04:16:45 So it should either be long or not so boring that repetition sucks? 04:17:07 (tangent) One idea that I've had was that you could have two tracks; theme for D:1, theme for D:27, and the cross-fade each according how deep you are in D :) 04:17:17 due: Yeah. 04:17:52 It would be ... interesting to create a melodic theme for each branch, D:1, D:27, and the Orb (of course). 04:18:05 I think Wesnoth has a playlist of things to play; there's actually different pieces, as one ends, another takes off. I'm not sure if it even has music according to what happens in the game, just a playlist that plays throughout. I may be wrong though. 04:18:07 Keskitalo: Vulture deals with it by having several music tracks for areas that are more than a single level long, and playing them at random 04:18:22 And then use that as the basis for a variety of different pieces. 04:18:22 Keskitalo: oh, I know loads about how music in Wesnoth works 04:18:45 each cutscene is typically assigned one piece of music (it's technically possible to do more IIRC but nobody ever does); each level is assigned a playlist 04:18:50 due: Yes, that would be great in my opinion. People could contribute tracks! 04:18:56 We could pimp it over at ocremix.org :) 04:18:59 which might be {DEFAULT_MUSIC_PLAYLIST}, but more commonly is tailored to the level, and one or more tracks long 04:19:15 ais523: Yeah, that sounds goodCool, thanks for the intel 04:19:40 and selection from the playlist is randomized, but designed so that repeats of the same track don't happen too close to each other 04:19:41 heh, was retyping that, accidentally pushed enter 04:19:49 Keskitalo: However, my melodic capacity -- non-existent! 04:19:55 ais523: That is a great idea 04:20:16 Vulture does something similar, but not as strongly thought through 04:20:32 oh, and scenarios can override the music for specific events, too 04:20:50 there's one level where there are two enemy armies fighting each other, and you have to sneak through the middle 04:21:01 and each of the armies has its own theme, that plays whenever it gets into LOS 04:21:09 and after a while, they're having a tug-of-war with the music 04:22:39 due: It might be cool, when entering the branch, to have the basic leitmotif play first, and then start playing the variations randomly 04:23:16 it's also worth mentioning that many (most) of the tracks in Wesnoth are very long, so that it doesn't get tedious if a level plays only one track in a loop 04:23:30 (apart from one track which is deliberately tedious, for use in levels which want to convey the feeling of tedium) 04:26:01 I wonder how well would the music be cached on webtiles 04:26:50 would be pretty well, I imagine; you'd be sending the music over HTTP, and you'd expect the browser to respect caching headers for that as it has no reason not to 04:26:57 it'd just be like caching an image 04:27:42 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:19 pivotal the Bringer of Life (L15 CeHe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1052 failed on turn 40759. (Vault:1) 04:40:41 So, only send the music once, when you opt-in to it? 04:43:56 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:44:41 Could also do it OoT overworld-style, if you want to get ambitious 04:45:32 shackes (L14 HOFi) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1388 failed. (Lair:4) 04:47:28 That was done by having pre-composed segments which sort of flow into one another, generally around 15 seconds long (longer might be called for here); the game selects them according to what's going on in your surroundings. Tense music when you're being attacked, serene music for peaceful sunsets, and so forth. 04:49:04 That would indeed be awesome. 04:50:03 We could use tension. 04:50:08 dtsund: that actually gets on my nerves, especially in Majora's Mask 04:50:19 partly because the music for Termina Field is so much better than the battle music 04:51:10 ais523: Majora's Mask didn't do procedural generation, though, not really. 04:51:26 indeed 04:51:29 It just had two tracks, and faded from one to the other relatively ungracefully 04:51:51 I'm not really a fan of procedurally generated music in games 04:52:04 And yeah, as much as I love Majora's Mask, its battle music was not a strong point. 04:52:12 Portal 2 pretty much has the state of the art in terms of technology in that, and the result is that the music's a jumbled mess that's hard to concentrate on 04:52:33 I think you're not meant to concentrate on Portal 2's music. It's more for ambience. 04:52:48 Does the Twilight Princess overworld strike a better balance for you? 04:53:53 haven't heard it 04:54:13 It's more or less the two-tracks approach of Majora's Mask, but the battle music is better, and the game waits for a good transition point to switch gracefully. 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-360-gb0117f3 05:01:37 hmm, I don't like music that you can't concentrate on even if you want to 05:01:44 it's good for it to fade to the background most of the time 05:01:48 but I like being able to listen to it 05:05:01 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:05:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 05:24:07 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:07 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:24:08 -!- [1]GrimmSweeper is now known as GrimmSweeper 05:52:28 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:44 Tutankham (L14 DEAE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (Lair:1) 05:53:47 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:07 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:38 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:09 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:54 -!- GrimmSweeper has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:56:03 Several bugs in the fight simulator. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5394) by CommanderC 06:57:59 ttants: fight simulator, flight simulator 07:00:38 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:47 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:07 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:30 03galehar * r6e5f30cf97de 10/crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc: Clear last_pickup when entering a shop. 07:23:04 galehar: re tavern abyss stuff: i know you didnt mean burst speed. i also didnt mean burst speed. the overall speed change makes the abyss feel very different, and i think having low and high difficulty versions of both would be more interesting than tying difficulty to speed. 07:26:34 s/both/high and low speed abyss/ 07:27:29 ??badforum 07:27:31 badforum[1/30]: Make skill levels in magic skills (spellcasting, fire magic, hexes...) give a penalty to HP. 07:27:37 sorry, wrong channel 07:28:13 The thing is I don't think scaling difficulty with banishment depth or XL would work. I don't see any other way to scale it than with time spent. 07:28:37 and time spent increase speed, so it's simpler to just tie the 2 07:29:00 mhh. what about one of dpeg's proposals: toughest monster seen 07:29:14 it doesnt make sense thematically, but it might work quite well mechanically 07:29:44 one effect would be that it encourages getting the abyssal rune early 07:29:50 i dont know if thats good or bad 07:30:26 not early, but it discourages postponing it 07:30:27 OOD can be very random. 07:30:33 yeah, so? 07:31:04 if you get shafted and run into a unique or an OOD that then banish you, you end up in a very hard abyss 07:31:11 yes 07:31:17 :) 07:31:31 or if you're not banished right away, you must be extra careful until you catch up 07:31:40 sometimes its hard, sometimes not so hard. also abyss should still be fairly random, so would get tougher over time as you meet stronger monsters 07:31:49 it's a very weird and spoilery mechanism 07:31:56 spoilery is a problem, yes 07:33:09 some combination of several things might work 07:33:15 -!- GrimmSweeper has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:26 increase over time, starting difficulty determined by something else 07:34:00 -!- casmith_789 is now known as casmith789 07:34:05 imo thats better than adjusting scaling difficulty, because then early abyss would always be boring 07:34:18 but what? That's the question? What could determine starting difficulty that wouldn't lead to degenerate behaviour? 07:36:43 randomly use one of max exp reached, toughest monster seen, lowest absdepth reached :) 07:38:15 if we really want to scale the difficulty with player's level, we can use the new you.total_experience I added for skill cost 07:39:32 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:52 but use it to make late banishment harder, not early one easier! :) 07:40:23 imo have it be based on how annoyed lugonu is at you; increment this by 1 per level you gain, 1 per rune, 1 per x time spent in the abyss 07:40:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:17 discourage early rune. Can drain yourself for easier abyssal rune hunt. 07:41:30 galehar: per level you gain, not per level you are 07:41:58 Draining yourself sounds really spoilery. 07:42:27 fast leveling species get harder abyss. I'd rather use total_experience 07:42:58 sure, same idea though 07:43:12 the point of having it be lugonu flavored is that you can have messages relaying abyss difficulty 07:43:22 and have them actually make sense thematically 07:44:03 dpeg suggested that lugonu altar's seen but ignored could also increase difficulty (you had an opportunity to escape that you dismissed) 07:44:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:34 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 07:45:04 galehar: that's a good idea; the only problem might be someone not noticing an altar just barely in los 07:50:32 One idea I had for abyss is that it should be filled with things of the typoe you have seen 07:50:55 or possibly a little harder 07:51:03 but this would also mean no rune unless ylou already had one 07:51:28 The abyss basically being built from the horrors of your own imagination ... 07:51:46 (as you look into the abyss, it looks into you ... that kinda stuff) 07:53:53 that would be extremely boring 07:55:32 -!- ncampion has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 08:11:06 melee_attack.cc:1580, shouldn't we use div_rand_round instead? That would slighlty increase the effect of stats on melee, which can't be a bad thing. 08:12:08 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:10 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:18:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:20 also, interesting how stat values of 9 and 11 are special-cases to be exactly equal to 10 08:21:08 <|amethyst> in two different ways 08:22:31 same at 1619. We should use skill_rdiv somehow 08:27:02 obviously, weapon weighting itself sudden steps as well 08:27:59 although, with stats having 1+(x-C)/78 effect, it's negligible 08:42:46 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:06 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:49:39 -!- cosh has quit [] 08:51:07 yeah, we should probably start by fixing the formula before looking at its implementation :) 08:52:53 BTW, str's effect on carrying capacity is strange 08:53:28 crippling when <8, no real effect above 08:54:53 a, say, HaEE, is encumbered with a single dagger, robe/shoes/buckler, two bread rations, 5 wands, a few scrolls and a couple potions 09:00:10 now, is the intended effect of a possible change to educate players (increase effect above, motivation to not pick up and carry all the stuff, possibly leads to some players just doing more stash work and being frustrated) or to allow the low-str chars to carry more things (they have low str for a reason, how much balancing is behind this?) 09:07:30 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:25 i seem to be unable to haunt things behind glass 09:22:35 how peculiar 09:25:11 Ragdoll: I think it's on purpose. We're trying to avoid any form of attack through glass. 09:28:35 so instead of turning it into a tactical (dis)advatange it will now be used merely for gimmickvaults 09:28:50 galehar: yes, Ragdoll just can't cope with it and brings it up at every opportunity, you can safely ignore him :P 09:29:24 re glass: fucking trees, they are stupid, and how they are handled is even worse 09:29:45 but i think i have said everything i wanted to on this topic at some point 09:29:50 i rarely bring this up, and if i do it´s only because i encounter new exciting situations regarding glass 09:29:55 "rarely" 09:39:25 I suggested that glass block all attacks, and tree/grates none. Then edit vaults to use the proper one to avoid abuses. 09:39:48 seemed to reach a consensus, but everyone is too busy with the tournament to implement it yet :) 09:39:49 what about pillars? 09:39:57 what about trees? 09:39:58 galehar: tree blocking none doesn't work 09:40:00 what about tree pillars? 09:40:08 yeah, trees blocking none doesnt work at all 09:40:18 there are far too many times that would be abusable with current tree use 09:40:18 its a tree 09:40:26 right, grates block none, we haven't actually discussed trees ;) 09:40:47 IMO trees should behave like plants 09:40:57 i like the stuff trees to to los 09:41:00 and be actual monsters 09:41:05 it looks very cool 09:41:12 very foresty 09:41:22 elliptic: interesting idea 09:41:34 Durkon would agree with it 09:41:38 or like bushes maybe 09:41:58 I don't really understand what the idea is with the plant/bush/tree triad though 09:42:11 currently they behave in completely different ways from each other 09:42:31 probably they have been implemented by different persons at different time 09:42:36 it is very non-obvious that you can shoot through bushes, for instance 09:43:08 uniformising sounds like a good idea 09:43:28 but shooting through plants should stay a fedhas exclusive, right? 09:44:10 galehar: yes, IMO only fedhas worshippers should be able to shoot through bushes too 09:44:58 that would probably make more sense than how they work currently, yeah 09:45:01 what about monsters? this would kill that stupid centaur vault. 09:45:11 it could be a centaur of fedhas! 09:45:19 then it could walk through the bushes 09:45:41 we can also kill the vault if needed 09:45:57 or use grates instead 09:48:23 fr glass trees 09:48:25 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 09:49:39 saga frontier has crystal trees, they are not to be messed with 10:11:23 -!- nfogravity has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:28 i like the idea of being able to fire through P, but not bushes specifically 10:15:26 what about adding an 'obscured' status to firing paths 10:17:33 like, 0-6: '(not), lightly, somewhat, moderately, heavily, almost completely, (los blocked)'. plants are +1, bushes are +2, trees are +3 10:17:46 (well, maybe 0-7 to preserve current tree behavior) 10:18:44 fire through a plant/whatever and you have an obscure/max_obscure chance that it hits the appropriate intervening thing 10:19:03 (firing directly at a plant still hits it) 10:20:00 alefury: actually, there was a vault with crystal trees already, but was removed 10:20:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:39 so if you're: @..PP7o for plant/bush/tree you are 'almost completely obstructed' firing at the orc, which means you have a 1/7 chance to hit the plant, 2/7 chance to hit the bush, 3/7 chance to hit the, 1/7 chance unimpeded 10:21:02 mostly because they were vulnerable to fire, couldn't shatter/LRD, etc 10:21:23 crystal trees sound pretty cool. i meant they are not to be messed with in saga frontier :) 10:21:33 iirc they had oscillation and magnetic storm 10:21:41 not sure though :P 10:21:45 er, what they do? 10:21:49 trees are, uhm, trees 10:21:54 just regular monsters in saga frontier :) 10:21:58 its a weird game 10:22:02 crystal trees would be cool if trees became monsters 10:22:14 very shatter vulnerable, not at all vulnerable to fire 10:22:35 for the trees to be attacking, you need to apply an axe and fool the victim into shouting "Timber!" 10:22:45 then they'll be hit by the falling tree 10:23:04 that sounds like a nethack thing 10:23:04 nfogravity: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:23:10 !messages 10:23:11 (1/1) galehar said (7h 7m 52s ago): I have plans for fsim too. We should try to discuss it some other time. 10:23:20 the real question would be what happens when players can attack trees in melee... i don't think it would be a big deal, personally 10:23:37 Eronarn: very tedious digging 10:24:09 kilobyte: yes... i think it'd be good to make them only about as strong as old bushes 10:24:24 don't want it to be like sawing through an eldritch tentacle 10:24:26 just give them infinite damage reduction except by stuff that makes them burn imo 10:24:59 -!- Zao_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:07 choppable trees would break so many vaults 10:25:15 about monster trees: one of my branches has this: http://sprunge.us/PfUW 10:25:16 and it would just be annoying 10:25:25 -!- Zao_ is now known as Zao 10:25:43 -!- Zao has quit [Changing host] 10:25:43 -!- Zao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:05 i don't know about that... are there really any vaults that use trees in a way that matters like that? 10:26:14 fireball, fire, lightning will all destroy trees 10:26:36 Eronarn: all the foresty vaults 10:26:36 well there's lol_no_vehumet_altar_4_u_overflow 10:26:44 the "animated tree" is only a dummy for the player form, they'd be useless as monsters. Good only in specially designed vaults, and we already have those with "warrior statues". 10:26:47 they just use them as flavorful walls 10:27:55 alefury: if we're already letting the walls be destroyed by anyone with one of several items, it doesn't seem so bad to let them be destroyed by anyone with a powerful enough melee attack 10:29:07 Eronarn: wands of digging, LRD, ... 10:29:08 alefury: when you lick them they taste good? 10:29:16 rwbarton: Is it actually called that? 10:29:35 I would assume not :) 10:29:39 kilobyte: i believe that fire/fireball/lightning are all more common than digging 10:29:58 Eronarn: Did they change the wand generation probabilities, then? 10:30:20 spell level 4 vs 6 10:30:24 i might be wrong on that, of course 10:30:47 There's basically three tiers of wand probability, IIRC, and two of them are very small... 10:31:00 kilobyte: well, the spell is a higher level for a very different reason :P 10:31:08 also lightning bolt works and that's 5 10:31:47 -!- Zao has left ##crawl-dev 10:32:03 kilobyte: you should make the jelly attack be 'Pseudopod' 10:32:06 rather than 'Body' 10:44:57 03galehar * r2fa9559feeb8 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Fix ranged combat fight simulator not displaying skill level properly. 10:44:57 03galehar * r0fc7e7326f9d 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Replace grid_distance() == 1 by adjacent() in a few places. 10:44:57 03galehar * rc231866995d5 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: No stabbing during fsim. 10:44:58 03galehar * r6b03a9fd0f10 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-fsim.cc: Move the monster next to the player during fsim. 10:44:58 03galehar * r7770cf633833 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc fight.h wiz-fsim.cc): Fix the accuracy calculation of fsim melee. 10:47:22 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:44 amplicon (L6 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 204: Socket write error: Bad file descriptor (D:5) 10:50:53 Bushes were implemented for shoals and not really used as planned (maybe it didn't work out); I guess not much would be lost if they were removed. 10:52:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 11:02:14 03galehar * r1d2dbd5c7c05 10/crawl-ref/source/attack.cc: Show damage numbers in wizard mode. 11:02:14 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:47 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20111108220737]] 11:07:25 ugh damnit galehar stop changing useful shit while i'm hacking on it 11:08:22 nfogravity: I'm done with fsim for now, go ahead and hack. 11:08:40 oh you are here cool. wanna talk about fsim? nice changes btw 11:08:59 don't really have much time, have to go. 11:09:03 okay 11:09:25 'later 11:10:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.11-a0-361-g6e5f30c (32) 11:19:56 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:01 Eronarn: the whole jelly form idea appears to suck orange halfling balls, I uncovered enough problems during first stages of implementation that it's going out 11:35:22 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:37 even if I'll actually resume the bad forms project; I'd go more for hellspider, portal_branches and translations 11:41:37 portal_branches? 11:43:56 ripping away a good part of portal vault code and rewriting it sanely 11:44:03 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:45 Overloaded Status maintained on Felid Resurrection (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5395) by XuaXua 11:51:43 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:40 speaking of portal vaults, is there a way to temporarily create an arena, move the player there, do some stuff, and then put him back where he was and destroy the arena? 11:55:55 i know there's code for entering portal vaults, but this is more for debugging purposes 12:04:03 nfogravity: do you mean Arena arena, or just an arena-shaped map 12:04:14 i don't know about the former... the latter, you'd have to write yourself, for sure 12:08:27 you could make a wizard-only portal vault 12:08:28 03kilobyte * r2a01b23ff772 10/crawl-ref/source/misc.cc: Reset burden on felid revival (in case of stat death). 12:08:38 03kilobyte * ree6c366fd479 10/crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): A wizmode command, &^P, to transform yourself. 12:10:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:27:18 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:30:09 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:40:33 well for now i'm putting it in wizlab, just to see if it works 12:41:05 < magistern> you get red glow from sticky flmae 12:41:14 i think i might have even added it, but it seems potentially bad on second thought 12:44:36 well, it makes you glow. and fire is red. contam is contam, glow is something different (now). 12:46:36 "an alligator (moving slowly, moving somewhat quickly)" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5396) by ortoslon 12:52:45 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:13 alefury: i know, i'm the one who submitted that patch :P just thinking that it might have been ill-advised to either a) have stayed with glow b) not adjusted the color 12:56:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:56:13 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:00:07 the Glow status light is basically never relevant 13:00:21 and usually it comes from some other status ailment which is listed 13:00:59 Fire or Contam 13:02:26 at first it was quite distressing considering what Glow used to mean, now it's just unnecessary 13:05:41 rwbarton: well, it wasn't at all clear that sticky flame and having contamination made you easier to hit 13:06:01 that's definitely worth noting 13:06:06 who cares 13:06:12 those are much bigger issues in their own right 13:06:21 that could be shown as EV decrease 13:06:36 it's not like to-hit chance is generally transparent 13:06:36 ortoslon: not with the way it works right now, unfortunately 13:06:49 that would make more sense, though 13:06:58 it'd mean making it an EV penalty rather than an accuracy penalty 13:07:05 (also making it non-randomized) 13:07:56 rwbarton: those are bigger issues, sure, but it matters more than a lot of things that are shown 13:08:09 In the status area? 13:14:08 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: reboot] 13:16:55 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:24 it hints players at what stuff nullifies invis 13:27:56 it's relevant when you're invisible, yeah 13:28:07