00:00:08 -!- iasov has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-160-g01fde1e (32) 00:09:26 -!- Ganrao| has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:10:04 -!- Ganrao| has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:58 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-160-g01fde1e 00:21:01 Growf (L25 VpSu) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed. (Tar:7) 00:23:08 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:14 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:10 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:49 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:14 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:55 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:47 evilmike: I don't see your manual updates on the wiki 02:02:35 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:03:35 kilobyte: you don't see the changes here https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?do=revisions&id=dcss%3Amanual%3Arest ? 02:05:09 I think I clicked the "minor edit" box for them, since I was only making small edits bit by bit 02:13:36 ah, so that's a way to avoid mails 02:13:59 (the diff is quite spammy due to earlier unsynced changes) 02:24:28 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:44:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:23 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:05:13 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:53 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:10 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:49 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:22:41 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:29 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: zzz] 03:49:33 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:46 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:56:17 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:03 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:08 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:31:56 galehar: how does the new skill cost stuff work with potions of exp? does it use the exp applied to skills, or the leveling exp? 04:32:25 !tell galehar how does the new skill cost stuff work with potions of exp? does it use the exp applied to skills, or the leveling exp? 04:32:25 alefury: OK, I'll let galehar know. 04:39:44 pretty sure the exp applied to skills 04:45:15 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-160-g01fde1e 05:15:12 training feels slower early on, but maybe im just seeing things 05:15:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:25:44 I don't know exactly how the starting skill levels got translated into exp for this purpose, but I think he said that there could be some effect on early game, yeah 05:26:55 backgrounds with a lot amount of skill points would be slower, yeah, but i think a general slight slowdown was mentioned 05:27:03 i should probably reread the commit message 05:28:30 "Globally, early game cost will raise a bit faster, so this might need to be balanced a bit (although I'm not sure how)." 05:28:38 looks like i wasnt just seeing things 05:29:50 its not gamebreaking or something, but its noticeable 05:30:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:32 it can probably be adjusted in some way 05:35:48 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:18 we got the whole 0.11 to balance this 05:39:01 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:39:08 yeah :) 05:39:24 nice to not be so close to release, huh? ^^ 05:40:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:45 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:40 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:12:56 -!- blabber_ is now known as blabber 06:15:18 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:44 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:31 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:30 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:16 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:16 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:32 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:28 Is 0.10 out yet? 07:32:57 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:42 no 07:35:43 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:53 i think its supposed to be released on the 15th, if N has time to set up everything. 07:36:23 later if he doesnt 07:45:11 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:36 15th is supposed to be the final unbreakable deadline, even if not everything is finished 07:55:53 except that not everything will be finished and we're already on 12th :p 07:56:02 so it looks like 15th is it... 07:57:05 although, on the other hand, there's so few REPRODUCIBLE severe bugs left (if any) 08:12:06 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:57 -!- RockVonHarder has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:41 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:26 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:58:45 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:22 Rot HP is a little messed up (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5310) by Phaedros 09:03:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:42 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:20 -!- RockVonHarder has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:15:06 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:03 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:19 so what does explore_horizon do 10:52:33 Wensley: marks unexplored squares that border passable ones -- ie, places you can explore 10:52:46 a must when doing Lair 10:53:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:51 doesn't work in tiles... I could make it work but not sure how to enable it. 10:54:30 so you mean it would autoexclude all those little crannies in lair that you waste thousands of turns autoexploring 10:58:22 include, actually. It shows where yet-to-explore places are, so you can easily notice where places autoexplore complains about are. 10:59:46 or you could just not worry about those places :P 11:03:34 and possibly lose half of the level 11:03:50 guess I'll have to play with it some to see how it works 11:05:42 usually pretty easy to notice that you are missing half the level... 11:07:10 minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel, minmay_lair_hidden_items, sometimes the dragon lair, etc 11:07:11 I mean, the option might help a bit with that, but what I don't like about it is that it makes the map much more cluttered when looking at a partially explored level 11:07:59 it's not that vital outside the Lair but often still useful 11:08:05 "vital" 11:09:02 well, if you want to skip the Lair, you can, but dropping multiple | items just because you prefer the map not "cluttered" is quite silly 11:09:22 giving autoexplore a license to kill plants could reduce manual effort, though 11:09:31 what are these multiple | items you speak of 11:09:41 all the vaults you mentioned are pretty obvious in regular exploration 11:10:21 I know there is the vault you added with a single | item to try to incentivise this, but it certainly doesn't show up every game 11:10:35 and going around to all the tiny nooks uses turns... it isn't actually free 11:11:00 there are at least four such vaults 11:11:21 well, how are they obvious? You need to look at every edge. 11:11:49 autoexplore will currently go around the whole map twice, it can be improved 11:11:59 either they give huge black areas in the map or they have a visible item or monster 11:12:27 the monster being a plant 11:12:47 I wasn't counting those 11:13:06 I was thinking of the oklobs in the oklob tunnel (or in a couple other vaults) 11:14:34 the oklob tunnel has 1/26 chance per square to generate an oklob, you'd have to get one visible from the outside 11:15:16 autoexplore will take you in far enough to see one before being blocked by regular plants with rather high probability 11:15:18 to the 0th approximation, there's around 20 visible squares 11:15:27 and the oklob tunnel is a huge black area 11:17:02 only if you get a fully square layout. The vault is a small area tucked in the corner so on any cavernous map it's outright impossible to notice, and on typical Lair maps hard. 11:17:09 actually, I don't think I want to go near any vault named "oklob tunnel", so this is all a moot point :P 11:17:20 uh, most lair maps are really regular-shaped 11:18:28 if there's a huge part of a corner walled off like that, it is obvious 11:19:37 the very first generated map: layout_spotty (highly irregular), and with another oklob vault covering the entrance (lemuel_oklob_altar -- skipped by most) 11:20:00 "skipped"? people see the oklob 11:21:36 yeah but it's known to have no loot but considerable difficulty and risk for gear 11:22:34 well, okay, people probably won't fight it unless they are SpEn or have summons or something 11:23:03 but they know it is there... their decision whether to fight it, and explore horizon won't affect anything 11:23:38 subsequent levels: layout_big_octagon (not generated even with 100% CHANCE), another layout_big_octagon (this one was visible), layout_spotty (no oklob in sight), layout_rooms (very irregular, oklob in sight) 11:24:48 even if no oklob is in sight, it can still be obvious that you are blocked by a wall of several plants 11:24:49 layout_chaotic_city (not generated), layout_spotty (no oklobs in sight(aasaq1 11:24:53 sorry cat :p 11:25:48 you'd need to look closely... the whole point in explore_horizon is that you have such irregularities highlighted 11:27:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:28 obviously explore_horizon makes that a bit easier, sure, but most games there isn't anything to find and you just end up wasting turns/food/piety going around killing plants 11:29:45 with monster spawns, it is food and piety positive or neutral; if you care about turns you're doing a speedrun and thus don't explore fully anyway 11:30:59 spawns aren't that fast; it will usually be negative 11:32:29 they had some time to spawn when you were exploring the level for the first time, typically 11:33:13 might be midly negative in some cases, no point in arguing much here 11:33:21 anyway, I can't see how you can call something "vital" that in most games has no benefit... 11:35:06 for you. Judging from the number of people who have this on, despite it being a non-default and poorly documented, quite a few disagree. 11:35:18 you know how many people have it on? 11:35:21 I don't :P 11:35:23 since it would spook new players, it's not going to become a default too 11:35:42 well, I'm certainly not saying we should remove the option 11:36:19 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:25 so I'm going to think how to implement it in tiles 11:44:25 bmh mentioned interest in rewriting autoexplore. Plants in Lair, and above all, tides in Shoals, are something to note. 11:45:03 I hope you don't mean making autoexplore fight plants 11:45:06 also, the [g]nomes race is flat out useless without autoexplore knowing about wall swimming 11:45:22 since on a pure caster with a weak weapon equipped, this can take a huge amount of time 11:45:51 this could be configurable, yeah 11:46:08 by the way, Lair on a Fedhasite = <3 11:47:41 an bare-handed DEFE with no UC skill just took 341 turns, for instance 11:48:18 good point, there are extreme cases like this 11:48:28 and entry vaults with plant walls... 11:49:14 * kilobyte bets that DEFE has some tricks to kill plants a bit faster than that... 11:50:38 and with a -5 dagger it took over 600 turns :P 11:52:40 let's check a -5 dagger of distortion :p 12:13:23 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:08 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:45:21 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:22 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:49 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:40 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:39 somehow every randart ring/amulet gets a {tried} inscription now 13:48:01 or at least everyone after the first 13:49:39 recent change? sounds like it was probably caused by kilobyte's fix to the tiles issue with {tried}, if so 13:51:35 must be recent. only appeared in games after updating today 13:53:25 hrm, lemme check 13:53:56 BTW, just tested Crawl on Windows 8. The lack of full-screen mode is really, really jarring. 13:54:44 also, "Uninstall DCSS" is displayed prominently among those huge icons on the start screen 14:15:48 jeanjacques: could you tell me how to reproduce that? At least wizmode-created ones don't. 14:15:58 or acquired 14:16:20 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/78291/morgue-78291-20120212-194409.txt 14:16:38 no idea. you can look at all the zig milestones there 14:17:37 after the 'Upgraded the game from 0.11-a0-151-g706c437 to 0.11-a0-160-g01fde1e' 14:18:27 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:18:53 http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/jeanjacques/morgue-jeanjacques-20120212-193510.txt 14:19:21 same in my game with the same version upgrade 14:20:22 maybe it will not happen in fresh games? 14:30:37 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:10 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:24 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:37 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:17 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:17 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:07 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:13:10 -!- gnsh has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:20 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:26 03kilobyte * r7208d9e6fe86 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix artefact brands not showing up in tiles. 15:35:36 03kilobyte * ra0fc97f78de2 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Give Dissolution a more appropriate XP modifier. 15:35:36 03kilobyte * r66a0334835e8 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix deck rarity not being passed. 15:35:36 03kilobyte * r7450dfc3dafd 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Fix artefact jewelry being {tried}. 15:36:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:36:13 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:56:48 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:04 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:52 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ragdoll] 16:16:43 -!- monqy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:56 -!- monqy has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:17:03 -!- monqy_ is now known as monqy 16:34:32 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:33 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:03 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:23 03kilobyte * rbed1a4ca838d 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Assert if adjust_level() would put the experience out of bounds. 17:06:24 03kilobyte * rb8a5e1867eee 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc monster.cc player.cc): Release constriction on hibernation and similar effects. 17:06:24 03kilobyte * r92f6d4c46ca9 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.reST: Sync manual from the wiki. 17:13:07 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:13 Error calling monster-trunk: 17:13:13 %??dissolution 17:13:13 HangedMan: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:13:18 ...? 17:33:11 ?? %?? 17:33:24 sphinx (15H) | Speed: 11 | HD: 16 | Health: 66-108 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Damage: 25, 12, 12 | Flags: spellcaster, sense invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(64) | XP: 3145 | Sp: confuse, paralyse, minor healing, smiting (7-17), slow. 17:33:24 %?? sphinx 17:33:25 -!- theog has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:39 hmm, what's the last monster changed besides dissssssolution 17:35:57 silver star (15*) | Speed: 10 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 12/15 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 7795 | Sp: holy light (3d40), silver blast (3d43). 17:35:57 %?? silver star 17:36:02 eldritch tentacle (12w) | Speed: 12 | HD: 16 | Health: 99-141 | AC/EV: 13/0 | Damage: 3009(chaos), 4009(chaos) | Flags: 11non-living, amphibious, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 08acid+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 3181. 17:36:02 %?? eldritch tentacle 17:38:17 03evilmike 07stone_soup-0.10 * rbb73d467c6a7 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Update changelog. 17:38:18 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * rde2a778367d0 10/crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: Add commented-out explore_horizon to init.txt 17:38:18 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r7d098be97894 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Minor changelog tweaks. 17:38:18 03evilmike 07stone_soup-0.10 * r326d20efb6ec 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Correct description of action_counts in changelog. 17:38:18 03dolorous 07stone_soup-0.10 * r8134b256aa0e 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Fix punctuation in changelog entry. 17:38:19 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r6252b8505611 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix artefact brands not showing up in tiles. 17:38:19 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * ra2085bbc7733 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix deck rarity not being passed. 17:38:19 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r770c9cf270c6 10/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Fix artefact jewelry being {tried}. 17:38:19 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r40f74ba50384 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc monster.cc player.cc): Release constriction on hibernation and similar effects. 17:38:23 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * rc739b69706a5 10/crawl-ref/docs/crawl_manual.reST: Sync manual from the wiki. 17:38:23 03kilobyte 07stone_soup-0.10 * r53463956bb86 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Assert if adjust_level() would put the experience out of bounds. 18:11:34 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:44 blog comment of the year: "In the name of Ashkenazi let’s Forward" 18:50:48 pretty early to give such an honour out 18:51:33 I like how the guy thinks keyboard shortcuts are a big priority 18:52:03 evilmike, a gloss over of some of my vault wips? 18:52:42 I'm guessing he probably got "Ashkenazi" from spellcheck. And yeah, put them on pastebin 18:53:19 http://pastebin.com/DwTJfGNB http://pastebin.com/ESPnUuqh 18:53:44 you know who else wanted to move forward 18:55:53 HangedMan: just so you know, giants count as spellcasters 18:56:18 oh right 18:56:48 silly 0.10 screwery 18:57:10 it's a good change, it makes things more consistent 18:57:29 yes, but now the poor abyss silence vault is weakened 18:57:46 they still do a ton of melee damage :P 18:57:56 hellephant (04Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 20 | Health: 136-201 | AC/EV: 13/10 | Damage: 45, 20, 15 | Flags: 05demonic, !sil | Res: 06magic(133), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4437 | Sp: fire breath (3d40), blink. 18:57:56 %?? hellephant 18:58:03 passable damage 18:59:18 (looking at the serial vault) if monsters wandering outside the rooms is bothering you, tag the vaults with "patrolling" 18:59:30 oh right 18:59:35 you'll still be able to lure stuff out, but the monsters will wander less 18:59:42 a good change to make 19:01:39 "e.kmask('@, = !no_monster_gen')" what's the point of this? 19:02:10 put in a very small border, but not prohibit things from spawning in said border? 19:02:47 seems insignificant 19:02:58 * HangedMan shrugs 19:03:12 I was just wondering if there was some bigger effect 19:03:17 it doesn't cause any harm to have that 19:07:52 I think you can drop the "e.orient('float')" 19:08:12 'k 19:08:47 anyway, the serial vault looks interesting. I'll actually test it in game later, when you decide it's complete enough 19:08:55 mmm 19:09:14 one thing I'd suggest: since each vault has a fairly clear elemental theme, consider using thematic wall colours and tiles 19:09:28 augh 19:10:07 you don't have to do it, it just goes well with heavily themed vaults like this 19:10:28 reading through colour.cc and .h is easy enough, but it's a little annoying to look up tile names 19:11:19 the colours are listed in the vault documentation 19:11:47 for tiles, look at the html files in source/rltiles 19:12:08 or if you dont have those, look at the txt files in there 19:13:00 oh, cool 19:13:29 also, you'll see stuff like "TILE_WALL_ZOT_YELLOW", but in the vault, just use "wall_zot_yellow" 19:13:44 gotcha 19:14:50 any immeadiate advice for tiles/colours for the hexes and transmutation rooms, since they're obviously not easily connected to some other visual reference like the other elements 19:15:34 magenta for tmut, dunno about hexes 19:16:48 if you want some variation for aviary, you could use phoenixes. unlike most holies, they are fairly reasonable as dungeon monsters 19:16:59 phoenix (05b) | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 91-129 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 1908(holy) | Flags: 08holy, fly | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1669. 19:16:59 %?? phoenix 19:17:03 hm 19:17:25 might have to push the depth a little deeper though, and I liked the vaguely early tengu/raven/harpy spread 19:17:26 at least in small numbers. more than 3 and it becomes hard unless you have a quick way to dispose of the corpses 19:17:47 you can define multiple monster sets, basing it on depth 19:18:19 hah, right 19:18:34 : dgn.delayed_decay(_G, 'A', 'dragon skeleton') 19:18:36 this makes no sense 19:19:18 the original idea for incineration was something silly like it being a horrible fire miscast result 19:19:21 hmm 19:19:32 i dont get why the loot is exclusively potions, either 19:19:41 the scrolls burned up? 19:21:13 said theme is pretty weak and I could just shove in a | and remove the corpse or whatever 19:21:50 using normal loot would make more sense than a corpse and a bunch of potions 19:23:14 you seem to do a lot of stuff like this: 19:23:16 MONS: golden eye / eye of draining, giant eyeball, \ 19:23:16 eye of devastation / great orb of eyes / shining eye w:5, \ 19:23:16 ophan 19:23:36 you can just use three lines starting with MONS:. There's no real style guideline here but I think it's more readable that way 19:23:47 fair enough 19:24:46 I like the less MONS: but it gets a bit absurd when it reaches past two lines 19:26:07 it looks like you place eyes behind undiggable glass, with no doors or anything in that eye vault 19:26:57 that sort of thing has more or less been removed, and I dont want to add any new vaults like that. I think if a monster can attack you, you should be able to fight back (even if this requires digging or disint) 19:27:13 hm 19:27:41 changing n to m and putting iron grates on n, I guess 19:27:55 why do you even need grates, if it's all diggable? 19:28:28 ophan can't spawn holy flames through glass 19:31:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:32:11 I'm still not fond of the tentacle segment idea 19:32:29 they're just not meant to be used like that 19:32:38 fair enough 19:32:53 there has to be some limits to gimmickry 19:40:03 no comments on the ice cave or slime vaults? 19:41:32 i dont understand the slime one. is it hiding a bunch of monsters behind that wall? 19:41:41 yes 19:41:49 then the eye of devastation frees them 19:42:16 ah 19:43:07 ophan is not an eye though 19:43:21 amusing idea, although it bugs me somewhat that high EV is bad here (in theory) 19:43:22 it's not even a holy slime 19:44:18 yeah, the ophan being in the same place as all those eyballs seems wrong, the only thing it shares is the glyph 19:44:37 well, it's covered in eyes, but it's still not quite the same 19:44:38 I think bolt of energy acts like lightning bolt and draining in not caring about targets pierced for distance 19:45:02 and also stops after one wall or something 19:45:41 also I could push golden eyes to the outside rim and replace the ophan with the draining eye since there's too much draining as is 19:45:50 which would also remove using grates 19:45:57 ah yes, you're right about it going through you 19:46:19 sounds good 19:47:25 as for the ice cave, it looks fine. Make it less symmetrical if it's supposed to be a natural cavern. That's pretty easy to do 19:48:02 ate a clean chunk while nauseous and it made me sick 19:48:03 it doesn't have a very "natural" feel right now. The entrance area contributes to this, since it's a straight corridor 19:48:04 is this intentional 19:48:07 symmetry with large things is a bit of a crutch so far as I've found it 19:48:14 wensley yes 19:48:17 terrible 19:48:57 HangedMan: also if you want to make it more compact, you could chop off symmetrical parts, make them subvaults, and then randomize the map more 19:49:12 mmm 19:49:22 I dunno how easy that would be for you, so don't bother if it's too much work 19:49:33 haven't tried out subvaulting yet 19:50:31 it's easy. plenty of examples to copy 19:51:12 I'll see how it goes next time I'm working on these 19:51:24 it's just a vault inside a vault. you can even have subvaults inside subvaults 19:53:40 hmm 19:54:09 make the whole dungeon a vault 19:54:20 BlastHardcheese: that's called sprint :P 19:54:49 oh, vaults_vault, I'll use that for reference 19:56:42 speaking of vault shenanigans, I've got a heavy wip for an encompass russian roulette vault with (visible) teleport trap chambers, random placement of staircases, and an abyss-themed center point as the bullet 19:57:18 but I'm not entirely sure if it's fair considering the pain of it on orb run unless I add lots of hatches 19:58:14 if you want to do some weird full level thing consider making a sprint map 19:59:12 an interesting but much harder to balance prospect 19:59:17 I'm not sure what you're describing though. It sounds heavily scripted with weird rules and stuff 20:00:00 basically it's just a bunch of enclosed, isolated rooms that all have a teleport trap inside them 20:00:33 ah 20:01:02 was trying to think of a way to "improve" on the maligned tele-tile ice cave 20:01:40 if you're worried about fairness, you could make one of the chambers contain a down-stair and an up-hatch 20:01:55 this would allow players to get past the level when ascending 20:01:55 hm 20:02:09 also, should allow digging between the rooms 20:02:23 ehhhhhh 20:02:52 it's still a weird idea for a level though. It could work but it sounds difficult to make it fun/interesting 20:03:11 I suspect it would annoy players who want to explore the whole thing, and don't have cTele 20:03:16 I don't like making it too plausible for somebody with the dig spell to just destroy the vault trick, but I guess if I make only certain walls diggable it becomes difficult 20:03:40 well, it's a heavy wip, not all ideas get even close to completion 20:11:39 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:04 while I am not actually that hateful of submerging beyond swamp worms getting them to submerge from the steam from a single flame tongue is beyond infuriating 20:13:12 s/them/anything/ 20:14:34 submerging is pretty awful 20:15:35 it'd be neat if submerging was only done to try and surprise a player rather then used as a defensive mechanism 20:31:24 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:44:57 octopode (11x) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 28-55 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Damage: 20, 3003(constrict)(crush) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 267. 20:44:57 %?? octopode 20:48:48 how about giving all the submerging monsters M_NO_FLEE? A bit heavy handed but it would get rid of most of the annoyance 20:49:08 they'd still be allowed to start off submerged, or use it when hit with fear 20:50:52 sounds better 20:51:35 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:10 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:49 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 21:23:55 -!- Ganrao| has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:24:05 -!- SamB_XP_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:38 -!- SamB_XP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 21:25:48 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 21:26:35 -!- stabwound has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:26:37 -!- cbus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:26:37 -!- chrisoelmueller has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:28:20 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:21 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:05 -!- Guest76258 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:00 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:49:04 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:14 submerging fleeing monsters has only been significantly annoying to me in swamp 21:58:20 I see this as a problem with swamp, not submerging monsters 21:58:31 in that swamp has what it has in excess due to lack of variety 22:04:01 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:41 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:20 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:14:03 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:20 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:42:53 -!- upsy is now known as upsy_ 23:47:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]