00:00:56 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-101-g160e00b (32) 00:01:43 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:45 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.11-a0-101-g160e00b 00:15:08 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:27:03 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:40 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:18 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:29 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:42 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 01:06:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:07 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:55 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:56:57 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 02:14:04 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:29:21 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 02:36:53 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:42:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:42:59 -!- iasov has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:49 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:58:47 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:08 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:55 No door in Zonguldrok with Fedhas (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5288) by mursu 03:25:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:10 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:25 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:02:30 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:56 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:29 in the new monty hall vault: 04:44:31 crawl.god_speaks("Xom", "You fell being treated like a plaything in one of Xom's riddles.") 04:44:37 s/fell/feel 04:44:59 Xom trascends mere grammar! 04:45:10 that sounds awkward even without the typo 04:45:14 yeah 04:45:14 somehow 04:45:43 how about "You feel like a plaything... 04:52:04 btw, whats the status of somehow including a link to the planned survey in offline versions of 0.10? 04:52:10 it sounds like a pretty good idea 04:53:48 ruined forever 04:54:00 ? 04:57:51 another option would be linking it on the downloads page, or even redirecting to the survey after the download is started 04:58:00 although that might be a bit too intrusive 05:02:38 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:26 due: should we add immunity to fire to phoenixes? 05:29:22 kilobyte: definitely 05:30:02 If a phoenix was immune to fire how could it be reborn? 05:31:04 that's a good point, it should probably be healed by fire rather than resisting it 05:43:13 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:45:48 sixfirhies do that, except when elec damage is >= current hp, in which case they "explode in a shower of sparks" instead (just a message) 05:46:28 I wonder, perhaps that could damage adjacent stuff 05:48:58 there's never enough monsters that go in chain reactions -- but on the other hand, such gimmicks are NetHackish and somewhat spoilery 05:50:14 yes/no? 05:51:53 i didnt even know sixfirhies are healed by elec 05:52:52 kilobyte: "this monster explodes when it is killed, damaging adjacent monsters"? it's the sort of thing that could easily go in a monster description 05:52:56 a monster that shoots a lightning bolt at you when hit by anything might be cool, though 05:53:06 besides, I can only think of the one chain reaction in NetHack, involving gas spores 05:53:17 alefury: at the player, or at whatever damaged it? 05:53:17 imo such stuff should work for ranged attacks, melee has enough problems already 05:53:36 and right, in NetHack melee is better than ranged, so melee explosions work well 05:54:00 i dont know at what. at the attacker would certainly make more sense 05:54:12 at the player might be fun for summoners, though :) 05:54:31 03evilmike * rbeba2ada06c3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/xom_monty_hall.des: Improve wording in dk_xom_monty_hall. 05:56:18 when I was an university kid, a roommate was an avid Diablo player. And you could always hear him cursing when there was a "multi shot lightning enchanted" monster. 05:56:26 which it did what you suggest 05:56:59 if you attack an aligned priest (typically of Moloch) in NetHack in any way, you get the priest's god shooting lightning at you 05:57:15 typically by then you have an appropriate immunity, though, so it doesn't matter 05:57:23 and it's not unknown for the god to hit the priest by mistake 05:57:28 I mean, "lightning enchanted". "Multi shot" made any projectiles shot multiplied in a spread all around. Guess what happens when a monster had both qualities :p 05:57:38 classic D2 05:57:41 it had a dungeon full of those 05:57:47 umm, no 05:58:02 that could only happen on uniques, rarely. more often on super uniques because they get more stuff 05:58:20 that bug dungeon in the desert part of the game was full of lightning enchanted stuff 05:58:33 yeah, but not multishot 05:58:53 on difficulties that had any decent drops every hard monster had two randomly set attributes 05:59:06 no, only uniques... 05:59:12 also, not act bosses 05:59:45 fixed bosses had the attributes fixed, yeah 05:59:59 some of them were fixed for super uniques, but they also had random ones 06:00:09 and generally more stuff 06:00:28 i think 1 or 2 fixed, plus random extras 06:00:48 anyway, its so long ago that i played vanilla d2 06:01:10 i dont remember half the stuff :( 06:02:00 IIRC on the third difficulty every single named monster has two properties 06:02:10 regarding diablo, though, ive been playing a mod called median. it has a buch of rather inventive monsters 06:02:12 I mean, at least two 06:02:33 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:02:36 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:02:41 http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Multi_Shot_Lightning_Enchanted 06:02:50 on the subject of crawl, if more "retaliation" type of effects are added, it would be good to focus on punishing ranged attacks rather than melee... reflection is good at this (my thinking is, most of the really nasty stuff right now tends to hurt melee characters) 06:03:08 very few monsters use reflection though 06:03:35 reflection's all over the place in NetHack 06:03:47 which makes it mostly useless as a monster defence, except to protect it from attacks, as the player has it too 06:03:50 heh, yeah. crawl's is a bit different though 06:03:57 since it's not 100% 06:04:00 so reflectible attacks just bounce back and forward until they go out of range 06:04:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:32 death effects can also be interesting 06:04:33 in crawl, you actually have to block it with your shield in order to reflect it 06:04:43 im thinking ledas liquefaction on death or something 06:04:44 but also, more things are reflected than in nethack 06:05:21 would be nifty on a group of flying monsters 06:05:24 mud sprite or something 06:05:44 then again, the monster ideas wiki page is already huge :/ 06:05:52 what I'd do is look for a boring monster and replace it 06:06:50 mhh, thats another problem. every new monster makes the game more complicated. 06:06:50 maybe give it to clay golems, and say they melt into mud 06:07:30 well, the problem with leda 06:07:38 's is that it affects monsters too 06:07:48 if everyone is slowed it doesnt really make a difference 06:08:13 other on death effects could be nice though, or leda's combined with fliers 06:11:59 "crap golem" which brings a nice explanation for leda :p 06:13:13 alefury: is there any reason why all monsters have to be completely negative for the player? risk of the optimal strategy being to lure them somewhere? 06:14:45 crawl already does have "helpful" monsters. silent spectres are the biggest example, but if you're smart you can do stuff like use a rat in a corridor to block something nasty 06:15:00 i think a monster that casts static discharge when hit would be cool, but very bad for melee players and potentially useful to strong ranged attackers 06:15:05 the latter is a popular way to beat trog wrath 06:15:48 hmm 06:15:52 the problem with monsters that can be useful in some situations is that its hard to come up with something that melee chars can also take advantage of 06:15:59 immobile tactically useful monsters could be interesting 06:16:23 a sort of "pillar of leda" that collapses and liquefies the ground when attacked 06:16:25 of course everyone can throw darts, but actually killing most monsters before they reach you takes significant investment 06:16:36 encourages luring monsters to them 06:16:44 you can create a statue with perm_ench leda's I think... 06:16:49 which is frowned upon, although i dont see it as a huge problem 06:17:03 although, this shouldn't be used as a monster spell/effect, since it goes weird when you kill the monster 06:18:16 one idea for a beneficial monster that ive seen floating around is a holy stag that somehow uncurses items 06:18:37 hmm, surprisingly there's nothing like that in NetHack 06:18:57 and I think monsters don't even have the AI to read scrolls of remove curse there, I think that was added in AceHack 06:27:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:33 evilmike: a Xom altar idea: an X of five sheep, either behind a door or spawned outright. The central one starts with 1 hp, perm_ench:inner_flame perm_ench:sticky flame, and is placed first (so no other sheep gets to act). 06:36:51 heh 06:36:59 I suspect that would explode before the player finds it... 06:37:18 it would have to be triggered on you approaching 06:37:28 ah, yeah 06:38:07 might work for vehumet too. as a sort of advertisment. "follow me, and you too can make this happen..." 06:38:10 either the sheep drop from the ceiling, or are placed so you can see everything the moment you open the door 06:38:51 if a door is used, walls should drop, for the extra effect of sheep bleating running in panic in flames into four corners of the world 06:39:18 (sheep are currently the only monster with special sticky flame and fleeing effects) 06:39:39 always great fun to start a sheep fire 06:40:08 Vehumet could be nice with regular explosions, sheep of fire have Xom values 06:40:31 one thing i've thought for a while that would be really fun is if inner flame was "contagious"... where being caught in an explosion acts like inner flame is being cast on the monster (can be resisted normally) 06:40:39 dunno about balance, but it would allow for awesome chain reactions 06:41:48 it'd be nice to have dat/database/monflee.txt include cases for monsters other than sheep 06:42:25 huh, never knew about that file (or how empty it was) 06:42:30 sticky flame is special-cased to be contagious for sheep 06:47:41 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:13 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:57:30 i think stuff like that should either be unimportant or mentioned in the monster description 06:57:37 important + really obscure = bad 06:58:02 like say, if you could make dragons flee by casting ice spells at them or something, that should be mentioned 06:58:48 alefury: it's almost like you think crawl isn't nethack! 06:59:30 i never played nethack, but yes, stuff like that is what i gather is often called "nethackish" 06:59:58 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:24 at least with sheep the sticky flame thing is sort of hinted at 07:03:40 it also doesnt matter at all. its just a nice joke. a really nice one actually. 07:04:05 it would matter if sheep were dangerous 07:04:14 @??sheep 07:04:14 sheep (15Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/7 | Damage: 13 | Res: 06magic(12) | XP: 28. 07:04:23 !killsby sheep 07:04:26 158 games for * (ckiller=sheep): 2x elynaeandxom, 2x Nikinyo, 2x Johan, 2x FreeHugs, 2x phyphor, 2x dirge23, 2x sanka, 2x Lemuel, 2x BirdoPrey, 2x TGW, 2x splat, 2x MadDasher, BufferUnderpants, Leibowitz, btt, fleugma, Woebin, evaa, 78291, Radicchio, rabid, veisix, diablo, Yonder, Plucky, Elstrom, Nomi, Jubu, Honey, Lawman0, minced, minmay, Margery, Porost, Elynae, Nate, Archibald, sumonz, Chicken... 07:04:28 :) 07:04:44 !killsby yak 07:04:52 3499 games for * (ckiller=yak): 32x Nexos, 26x TGW, 23x mafalda, 22x 78291, 20x sorear, 19x NyaaKitty, 18x m1nced, 18x KiloByte, 17x Lemuel, 17x poop, 17x nmf, 17x murphyslaw, 16x crawlie, 16x IronRobin, 16x rob, 16x Ponce, 16x soul, 15x aristotle, 15x Temoid, 13x Johan, 13x BirdoPrey, 13x b0rsuk, 13x coweater, 12x splat, 12x Elynae, 12x Moose, 12x nogglebeak, 12x Stormfox, 11x valrus, 11x Miettel... 07:05:10 158 really isn't a lot 07:05:14 i guess theyre not completely harmless, but harmless enough 07:05:26 they're not completely harmless but not a very significant threat either 07:05:34 maybe if you're a weak character and let yourself get surrounded 07:05:45 can you have !killsby list categories, like race or class? 07:06:00 !killsby sheep s=class 07:06:00 158 games for * (ckiller=sheep): 2x elynaeandxom, 2x Nikinyo, 2x Johan, 2x FreeHugs, 2x phyphor, 2x dirge23, 2x sanka, 2x Lemuel, 2x BirdoPrey, 2x TGW, 2x splat, 2x MadDasher, BufferUnderpants, Leibowitz, btt, fleugma, Woebin, evaa, 78291, Radicchio, rabid, veisix, diablo, Yonder, Plucky, Elstrom, Nomi, Jubu, Honey, Lawman0, minced, minmay, Margery, Porost, Elynae, Nate, Archibald, sumonz, Chicken... 07:06:10 I thought there was a way to do oti 07:06:11 it* 07:06:13 no, you can do stuff with ckiller and !lg 07:06:27 use !lg * ckiller=sheep, not !killsby 07:06:29 !lg * ckiller=sheep s=class 07:06:29 158 games for * (ckiller=sheep): 21x Berserker, 13x Wizard, 13x Fighter, 10x Enchanter, 8x Conjurer, 8x Chaos Knight, 7x Necromancer, 7x Gladiator, 7x Transmuter, 6x Death Knight, 6x Monk, 5x Fire Elementalist, 5x Paladin, 5x Crusader, 5x Air Elementalist, 5x Stalker, 4x Earth Elementalist, 3x Summoner, 3x Wanderer, 3x Artificer, 3x Ice Elementalist, 3x Assassin, 2x Venom Mage, 2x Warper, 2x Hunte... 07:06:34 interesting 07:06:38 lots of berserkers 07:06:59 probably berserkers passing out, or getting slowed and becoming unable to run away 07:07:01 that's my guess 07:07:02 there are lots of berserkers 07:07:07 oh, fair point 07:07:18 !lg * ckiller=yak s=class 07:07:18 3499 games for * (ckiller=yak): 580x Berserker, 295x Fighter, 262x Wizard, 207x Necromancer, 173x Transmuter, 156x Ice Elementalist, 145x Crusader, 142x Monk, 141x Chaos Knight, 130x Assassin, 114x Conjurer, 114x Enchanter, 93x Hunter, 79x Paladin, 79x Air Elementalist, 78x Fire Elementalist, 77x Gladiator, 76x Stalker, 72x Earth Elementalist, 68x Venom Mage, 62x Summoner, 61x Priest, 44x Wanderer... 07:07:18 also sheep are easy to underestimate 07:07:21 as they come in packs 07:07:37 !lg * ckiller=death yak s=class 07:07:43 1379 games for * (ckiller=death yak): 202x Berserker, 114x Wizard, 103x Necromancer, 98x Fighter, 72x Transmuter, 71x Enchanter, 67x Earth Elementalist, 66x Ice Elementalist, 59x Conjurer, 58x Monk, 57x Fire Elementalist, 49x Crusader, 37x Chaos Knight, 32x Paladin, 31x Assassin, 28x Stalker, 27x Hunter, 26x Death Knight, 26x Venom Mage, 24x Summoner, 20x Air Elementalist, 19x Priest, 17x Wanderer... 07:07:53 yeah, similar enough distributions 07:08:12 !lg * place=lair s=class 07:08:27 22465 games for * (place=lair): 2819x Berserker, 2316x Wizard, 1507x Fighter, 1470x Transmuter, 1382x Necromancer, 1029x Enchanter, 996x Conjurer, 984x Ice Elementalist, 911x Chaos Knight, 817x Fire Elementalist, 813x Monk, 757x Crusader, 666x Air Elementalist, 640x Earth Elementalist, 621x Venom Mage, 589x Assassin, 507x Summoner, 449x Hunter, 442x Stalker, 394x Gladiator, 367x Paladin, 318x Prie... 07:09:13 !lg * place=lair s=race 07:09:15 22465 games for * (place=lair): 2494x Deep Elf, 1780x Spriggan, 1774x Demonspawn, 1663x Troll, 1548x Mountain Dwarf, 1125x Merfolk, 976x High Elf, 891x Deep Dwarf, 882x Minotaur, 836x Sludge Elf, 835x Mummy, 829x Kobold, 793x Naga, 599x Ogre, 596x Kenku, 582x Vampire, 581x Hill Orc, 461x Felid, 453x Human, 364x Demigod, 310x Halfling, 310x Centaur, 277x Ghoul, 208x Octopode, 138x Green Draconian, ... 07:09:40 !lg * s=class 07:09:44 1454040 games for *: 131431x Fighter, 119037x Wanderer, 114554x Wizard, 97104x Berserker, 75385x Enchanter, 72032x Transmuter, 67100x Necromancer, 66362x Chaos Knight, 58935x Crusader, 48759x Monk, 46170x Fire Elementalist, 43707x Conjurer, 40940x Assassin, 39927x Stalker, 38619x Ice Elementalist, 34964x Air Elementalist, 33550x Earth Elementalist, 31990x Gladiator, 31147x Priest, 28310x Hunter, 2... 07:10:52 what would be the earliest level where a sheep would be not terribly OOD? 07:11:02 @??sheep 07:11:02 sheep (15Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/7 | Damage: 13 | Res: 06magic(12) | XP: 28. 07:11:08 centaurs can appear on D:2 07:11:16 so i think sheep are okay from D:1 on 07:11:19 a sheep on its own isn't too bad 07:11:25 sheep packs in open spaces can be nasty 07:11:36 sheep packs in open spaces mean you run to a non-open space 07:11:47 there's four, they start damaged by the explosion, on fire and in panic 07:11:50 (centaurs are *terribly* ood on D:2) 07:12:01 so basically they cant do anything 07:12:09 unless you box them in before they burn to death 07:12:21 or they somehow survive the sticky flame and explosion 07:12:52 looks like there's only a 50% chance of contagion 07:13:52 make it D:3 should be fine imo, theyre speed 10 melee so if all else fails you can just go away 07:14:16 plus you can take advantage of the damage and just kill them quickly with some darts 07:14:56 i think worse stuff can even spawn on D:1 already, but no need to make it harder 07:15:55 @??ball python 07:15:55 unknown monster: "ball python" 07:16:00 ball python (03S) | Speed: 12 (swim: 60%) | HD: 1 | Health: 2-5 | AC/EV: 0/11 | Damage: 2, 303(constrict)(crush) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(1), 12drown | XP: 1. 07:16:00 %??ball python 07:16:13 Error calling monster-trunk: 07:16:13 %??snake 07:16:17 oh right -.- 07:16:23 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:27 adder (09S) | Speed: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Damage: 508(poison) | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 13. 07:16:27 %??adder 07:16:51 centaur (07c) | Speed: 15 | HD: 4 | Health: 12-32 | AC/EV: 3/7 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 112. 07:16:51 %??centaur 07:17:01 (these have bows...) 07:17:28 gnoll (08g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 8-18 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 14. 07:17:28 %??gnoll 07:17:30 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:32 these can have polearms 07:17:48 i guess gnolls are most comparable to sheep, and gnoll bands show up pretty early 07:18:08 -!- imi__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:08 hi 07:18:16 I found this one: http://pastebin.ca/2110216 07:18:28 actually right now 07:18:46 early gnolls can be fairly dangerous, especially with new polearm reaching 07:18:51 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/ 07:18:59 preferably attach crash log and save 07:19:16 bugs that arent absolutely trivial to fix should be reported on mantis so they arent forgotten 07:24:53 by the way, why is @?? not identical to %?? ? I thought the point of @?? was to give trunk monster stats (opposed to stable stats from @?), and %?? simply does this better. 07:29:55 what if I've forgotten my mantis username? 07:30:13 (actually, I'm not sure whether I have one) 07:32:33 hrm, the sheep never, ever survive the explosion 07:32:52 :( 07:33:28 imi__: just make a new one. also, its the same as your tavern username if you have one. and if you make an account, you also get a tavern account free of charge! 07:33:33 (and vice versa) 07:33:59 I could have been posting on the forums this whole time!?!?! 07:34:17 yeah, the shared login is an awesome piece of work imo 07:34:39 brb informing the public that player ghosts always have slower movement speed, so you can feel safe meleeing them 07:34:40 not sure if it also counts as a dev wiki account, but its quite likely 07:35:26 !learn add inner_flame Damage depends only on monster size: >= giant-sized 3d25 (radius 2), >= spriggan-sized 3d20, tiny 3d15. 07:35:26 inner flame[3/3]: Damage depends only on monster size: >= giant-sized 3d25 (radius 2), >= spriggan-sized 3d20, tiny 3d15. 07:35:37 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:06 i think ive seen that line before 07:36:11 ??inner flame[2] 07:36:11 inner flame[2/3]: The sheep bleats in terror. The sheep explodes! 07:36:15 ??inner flame[1] 07:36:16 inner flame[1/3]: Turns monsters into explosions. Level 3 Fire/Hex. If it's not resisted, the target explodes upon death dealing 3d20 fire damage and leaving flame clouds behind. Giant and huge monsters deal more damage and have a radius 2 explosion. The explosion is as noisy as a mephitic cloud or fireball. 07:36:25 hm, weird. 07:36:55 also, holy crap, mephcloud is fireball level noisy? 07:37:11 I believe it's "very loud" 07:37:38 -!- Ragdoll_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:47 inner flame is quite fun if you have a lot of rF and a lot of HP, and/or a reaching weapon and swiftness 07:38:35 what about AM? 07:38:43 if the central sheep has >1 hp, it doesn't go off immediately, but then it's a death trap unless you know to backpedal immediately 07:39:04 cant you just make a regular explosion with lua and fake the message? 07:39:15 G-Flex: I tried it in a game in the Shoals: hilarious, and overpowered. 07:39:18 very dirty, though :/ 07:39:47 tried what, exactly? 07:39:50 inner flame? 07:39:54 yeah 07:40:03 inner flame being overpowered in shoals sounds surprising/unlikely, although it would generate a lot of steam 07:40:16 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:20 tends to suck in other areas since it's too hard to use safely reliably 07:40:35 yeah 07:40:39 you mean because Mf enemies have polearms? 07:41:11 Mf have polearms, snapping turtles have reach, harpies move back and forth 07:41:38 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:39 crawl is so good 07:42:42 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:44:19 -!- Ragdoll_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:45:07 kilobyte: and steam clouds are at least potentially useful for LOS-blocking in some cases, although conjure flame works for that 07:48:01 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5289 07:48:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:36 ASSERT(!did_msg) in 'spl-miscast.cc' at line 413 failed. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5289) by toninno 07:49:04 I used fireball to set off the explosions (the character had an impressively bad luck with spellbooks: 5 total, up to D:24 Swamp:3 Shoals:5, no most basic spells), so they tended to go by 2-3 chained guys at once. 07:51:16 on Ilsuiw, I ran out of mana so the final boom went with a wand of draining: it killed one of inner flames, chain explosion got Ilsuiw from lightly damaged to near death, then the very same bolt of draining that started it finished her off 07:58:20 hrm, no idea how to get this altar right without duplicating huge chunks in lua 08:01:15 you could specialcase inner flame to do less damage on sheeps in xom altar vaults :P 08:02:01 also, i asked before, any news on that survey? 08:12:20 crawl/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des:1735: bad spec: 'dngn_golden_statue' in 'dngn_golden_statue' 08:12:30 weird, why do I get this? 08:13:03 this line has been commited more than a month ago, and it used to work fine 08:13:58 kilobyte: don't chain explosions require a fair bit of turn/MP investment to inner flame so many creatures though? 08:17:16 G-Flex: you tend to be limited primarily by mana, so 3 MP per explosion is a lot better than fireballs or bolts. Base merfolk seems to be affected almost always, and even impalers somehow rarely resist. 08:17:30 @??merfolk impaler 08:17:30 merfolk impaler (08m) | Speed: 10 (swim: 60%; atk: 60%) | HD: 12 | Health: 68-99 | AC/EV: 0/18 | Damage: 26 | Flags: amphibious | Res: 06magic(48), 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1072. 08:17:35 48 isn't that high 08:17:36 yeah 08:17:43 you make a good point 08:17:46 I had some fun the other day with inner flame in a killer bee nest. 08:19:29 that char had 12 Fire 0 Hexes, 25 int 08:21:50 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:49 galehar: dngn_golden_statue seems to work for me too 08:22:54 in current trunk 08:36:35 galehar: not as much fun as high-invoc recite against a room full of orcs 08:37:20 and in case anyone's curious, I tested recite against almost every unique pan/hell lord. Against most of them, it caused them to flee. It made Antaeus bleed and get sick. Cerebov got /confused/, which worked both times I tried. 08:44:27 (unfinished) exploding sheep altar (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5290) by KiloByte 08:49:01 kilobyte: never mind, I've figured it out. A shell alias I defined made it launch another version than the one I was expecting. 08:51:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:15 03kilobyte * r04ebcf7b431d 10/crawl-ref/source/areas.cc: Don't redundantly regenerate agrid at the wrong time. 09:02:15 03kilobyte * r30e6f0852a23 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Make phoenixes immune to fire. 09:02:16 03kilobyte * r135060c1364e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Document that sixfirhies heal (or explode) from electricity. 09:02:16 03kilobyte * rdc269313c00f 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Forbid eye-gouging ETC_FIRE floors in Pan. 09:02:26 03kilobyte * rab659f9b998b 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Don't use misleading "Monster resists." for failed swaps. 09:02:26 03kilobyte * r3323d154a499 10/crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Fix a branch stair mimic info leak. 09:09:25 wizardry stacking is a bad joke: 74% fail with one ring, 66% with four. 09:09:47 would it be better to remove stacking outright, or improve it? 09:13:27 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:43 i think it could safely be improved, because it can never get you reliable spells on its own anyway 09:14:23 and having the choice to stack it could sometimes be interesting 09:18:32 I'll put it on Mantis for discussion then 09:20:04 wizardry stacking is a bad joke -- remove? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5291) by KiloByte 09:21:53 -!- imi__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:35 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:30:38 i thought stuff like that is supposed to be discussed on the wiki? 09:53:14 interesting thought: should monster lava orcs calculate the player's toughness as a tension analogue? 09:56:02 i think having them go boom near summoners would be interesting 09:56:30 lots of enemies ==> tension ==> boom ==> no more summons ==> no more boom 09:56:57 not so sure about player toughness 09:58:33 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:34 having them scale could make them nice abyss monsters, and sometimes having a branch with them (instead of regular orc) could have interesting ramifications too 09:58:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:26 because putting it off until later will make it less easier than it would without scaling 10:01:53 it would make lava orc vaults a little weird, though, and could be confusing 10:03:36 LOBe enemies would definitely be nice :) 10:03:51 the (player) lava orc tension display is pretty irritating last time I tried it 10:04:00 bugginess aside, it's strange for one race to have a different interface 10:04:25 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:26 i never tried LO, but a simple status light would work well i think 10:04:45 using color and different words 10:04:50 yes 10:04:50 just like hunger 10:05:05 yeah, or any other status 10:05:12 that would almost definitely be sufficient 10:05:59 having something like cold --> cool --> warm --> hot --> boiling --> erupting or something could be better than just a color coded temperature light 10:06:10 G-Flex: i can definitely make the temperature bar be an option, and have it otherwise be a status light 10:06:14 just having a colored square in the status light bar might be even better though, more space for other stuff 10:06:14 some people like the bar 10:06:26 I don't see the purpose of the bar instead of the status light 10:06:41 the purpose of the bar is that it looks neat and people like it 10:06:52 is there a screenshot? 10:06:55 it makes the interface inconsistent from other races 10:07:01 this is (in my opinion) bad 10:07:08 lava orcs are different from other races 10:07:17 screws with the placement/layout of the interface elements 10:07:27 Eronarn: except it's unnecessary because a status light is sufficient 10:07:50 G-Flex: all it does is shift everything else down one 10:08:00 if you don't have to mess with the interface, it is probably preferable not to 10:08:17 a status light has a bit more consistency 10:08:26 because it goes where you expect such things to go 10:08:37 Eronarn: in addition to g-flex' concerns, theres also tiles 10:09:04 it's good to be able to *assume* consistency in case things change in the future as well 10:09:09 even if it wouldn't matter much in the short term 10:13:51 this is a much larger effect than vamp hunger, it makes sense for it to be a bar 10:14:02 (it also has more gradation than a status light) 10:17:53 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:38 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:02 alefury: http://imgur.com/Wu0R1 10:20:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:20:43 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 10:22:30 that is kind of neat 10:23:01 hmm 10:23:10 having a 0/0 MP bar should probably still print a bar, but just a grey one 10:23:12 it looks weird 10:23:52 definitely 10:24:30 the bar seems like it would be nice and potentially useful, but having different interface for one race opens a whole bag of potential problems 10:24:50 namely, everyone who ever changes the interface will have to consider that it has to work with lava orcs 10:24:55 its the same as beogh really 10:25:08 any changes to monster orcs need to consider beogh 10:25:28 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:25:40 http://imgur.com/a/r2r4I 10:25:46 that's the a screen / alt a screen 10:26:54 i plan to give beogish orcs protection from lava orc heat aura/blood splatter 10:26:55 could compensate by removing the space above the monster list, that would at least keep total number of lines in the top section the same 10:27:43 yeah... that code is all a mess, unfortunately 10:27:47 i didn't want to touch it too much 10:27:52 that, or come up with a reason to make them atheist and hijack the piety bar 10:28:14 nah, they're solid beoghites. beogh is the one who told the lava orcs to leave their home and conquer the surface world 10:28:17 still, different interface for one race is problematic 10:28:54 i think it should be pretty intuitive... it's just another always-there bar for that race 10:29:09 it would be like if there were a race that ust had magic, and no health. it'd be silly to print an empty bar 10:30:29 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:37 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:33 yeah, but removing something causes fewer problems than adding something 10:32:22 anyway, the bar is kinda nice, i think a status light would probably be good enough, but it depends on how important knowing your exact temperature is 10:33:00 if you dont need the precision anyway, a status light would be cleaner i think. if you do, something is probably wrong with the race, but then the bar would be needed. 10:33:13 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:51 alefury: if you look, you can see temperature highlighted because it has changed 10:34:06 the amount of change varies with the situation. it's rising that fast because it's an ogre on screen at XL1 10:34:15 a status light won't be able to display that 10:34:21 (this also applies to tension loss) 10:34:40 true, it would make this new mechanic a lot more intuitive 10:35:00 it'd be easy enough to make it an option, but i feel that the bar makes more sense as the default 10:36:05 is temperature simply correlated to tension, or is it more complex? 10:36:10 more complex 10:36:14 having both options sounds like a good compromise, and having the bar as the default seems like a good idea. if something breaks the default can just be switched then until a proper solution is found 10:36:26 G-Flex: stuff like berserking and bathing in lava also affect it 10:36:34 oh right 10:36:36 and probably a bunch of other stuff 10:36:36 i mean, it is correlated to tension, but if you suddenly teleport, your temperature will take a few turns to decay 10:36:40 I remember thinking that casting fire spells would affect it but it didn't 10:36:57 taking fire damage might have, though 10:37:10 i haven't actually coded the fire/cold damage change yet 10:37:14 not sure whether it's a good idea 10:37:20 I remember some things being a little buggy 10:37:26 like the skin melting/solidifying 10:37:30 but it was a long time ago 10:37:32 the whole mechanic can be gamed, which is a bit problematic 10:37:45 G-Flex: that's fixed, i totally redid how it is calculated 10:37:49 now it's actually stored as a float 10:37:50 for theme being hit by spells should definitely affect temperature, though 10:38:04 i was thinking of maybe tying it to taking actual HP damage 10:38:12 if you totally resist, it's not affecting you 10:38:23 Eronarn: that's kind of inconsistent though 10:38:29 being in lava doesn't damage you, but that raises your temperature 10:38:52 G-Flex: yeah but they're magically immune to lava swimming, they can still be hurt by stuff like magma bolt 10:39:25 but becoming magically immune (well, highly resistant) to a fireball is different? 10:39:30 i hope i get to try lava orcs in trunk at some point :/ 10:39:34 bye for now 10:39:40 you can obviously think of some way to justify it, but it seems unintuitive to me 10:40:00 G-Flex: i don't think there's a good answer... we don't want people casting throw flame on themselves to cause heat 10:40:08 right 10:40:10 (this is literally actually a thing that happens in tome) 10:40:36 or standing in flame clouds 10:40:36 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 10:40:39 that they conjured 10:40:54 that reminds me of the other thing with lorcs 10:40:58 they have their own lava blood thing 10:41:05 whereas ds recently got ignite blood 10:41:08 i don't feel either of them work great 10:41:13 I don't remember how the lava blood thing worked 10:41:16 how similar is it? 10:42:22 causes damage to things if a blood splatter lands in their square 10:42:28 no lasting effects 10:42:37 i was considering making it be sticky flame instead though 10:42:45 since blood splattering on stuff is rather rare 10:42:51 (and requires that you be hit hard) 10:43:27 probably it would be hilarious if you disint yourself, but i think that's good 10:44:48 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:06 kilobyte: did you have anything in mind for the tournament announcement? I think the rules page at http://seleniac.org/crawl/tourney/12a/ is a reasonable thing to link to at this point 11:03:12 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:38 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:10 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:38 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:09 Failure to eVoke Staff of Olgreb does not cost time (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5292) by XuaXua 11:33:35 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:16 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 11:45:40 crate the Bringer of Life (L20 HaWr) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1054 failed on turn 51311. (Swamp:1) 11:51:08 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:29 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:02 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:13 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:40 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:51 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:30:27 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:32:27 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:39 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:02 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 13:02:02 -!- jle has quit [*.net *.split] 13:02:06 -!- jle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:15 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:39 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:30 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:18 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:39 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:00 -!- jeanjacques has quit [*.net *.split] 13:45:35 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:03 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: cu] 14:20:34 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:20 03galehar * r050182461a86 10/crawl-ref/source/ (skills.cc skills.h wiz-fsim.cc wiz-you.cc wiz-you.h): Properly update skill cost when changing skill level with the wizmode command. 15:04:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:24 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:26 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.26/20120128224517]] 15:18:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:35 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:36:29 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:12 -!- jooosa has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:14 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:14 -!- jooosa is now known as joosa 15:56:20 03elliptic * r577a65dfc20b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (decks.cc decks.h): Make Nemelex no longer attempt to enforce "genuine" use of cards (fixes #2908). 16:10:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:18:34 -!- rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:51 -!- rejuxst has left ##crawl-dev 16:19:04 -!- rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:13 -!- rejuxst has left ##crawl-dev 16:23:56 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:43 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:13 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 16:48:12 elliptic: on the uniques list, why do you classify Mara as "medium" but Jory, Ilsuiw, Xtahua as "hard"? 16:48:34 kilobyte: the criteria used are on the page 16:49:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:40 strange to special-case Donald and Polyphemus but not the rest then 16:49:55 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:21 where's the list in question? 16:50:28 donald and polyphemus are both pretty shallow, they just don't generate in D 16:50:34 http://seleniac.org/crawl/tourney/12a/unique-list.html 16:50:39 thanks 16:52:42 Ilsuiw can spawn on absdepth 13 too 16:54:23