00:00:49 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3177-g4ff4846 (32) 00:06:18 03SamB * r9fc1a7967e2a 10/crawl-ref/source/crash.cc: Point out that the mutex usage in _crash_signal_handler() could cause UB. 00:06:29 03SamB * rd4cdc3176b9b 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Don't return column-0 items from player::visible_igrd(); they aren't really there... 00:08:33 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3179-g9fc1a79 00:12:40 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:02 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:35:26 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:33 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:04 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:39 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:58 SamB_: could you tell me more about *_mutex_lock() being not thread safe? 02:15:08 er, signal safe 02:16:05 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 02:16:18 is this only in the contested case? If so, that's ok -- an unrecoverable deadlock is fine there (this usage is a special case) 02:18:24 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:45 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:54 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:54 -!- Red_Bucket has left ##crawl-dev 02:49:32 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:50:12 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:43 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:09:01 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:10:59 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:11:50 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:33:51 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:54 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:38 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:11 so are new temple vaults needed? 04:05:17 it seems like there arent that many 04:06:27 im sure vaults of any kind will be appreciated 04:07:39 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:43 there are lots of temple vaults, but temple is generated every game, so more would probably be better 04:15:32 !tell evilmike ragdoll_tomb_raider doesn't fit well in Tar: it has a huge chance (due to almost no competition); no other vault gives loot while this has a fixedart and multiple | 04:15:32 kilobyte: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 04:20:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:39 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:04:56 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:50:38 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:51 -!- wtface has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 06:02:54 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:31:42 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:36:23 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:44 -!- heteroy_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.25/20111212142243]] 07:03:30 -!- blabber has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:04 Religion screen don't show the !-command (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5218) by dk 07:47:05 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:06:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:36:20 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:36:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:25 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:26:10 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3179-g9fc1a79 (32) 09:29:37 New serial vaults with undead/graveyard theme (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5219) by dk 09:47:15 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:28 kilobyte: Well, on Linux it's most likely fine 09:57:12 kilobyte: see http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V2_chap02.html#tag_15_04_03_03 and scroll down until you see a big list of functions 09:57:35 then start reading two paragraphs above that 09:58:47 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:39 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:11:26 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21:51 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:22 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:24 SamB_: right, posix is always conservative in such cases, as allowing too much could be hard on implementations for no obvious gain (doing things without malloc() and co is hard...) 10:36:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:34 SamB_: however, since this is a crash handler and thus the process' state is already undefined, breaking further rules isn't bad; SIGALARM will kill the dump anyway if there's a lock up 10:38:09 the mutex comes before first alarm() so its behaviour in the uncontested case is important 10:39:40 alarm() shouldn't be called multiple times due to recursive crashes 10:40:00 kilobyte: good point abou that vault being in Tar. I'll take it out of there 10:40:00 evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:41:01 thus my question is: is it better to assume *_mutex_lock() will pass through at least once, or to add a yet another flag that would be set in a racey way and call alarm() before the handler goes 10:42:21 03dolorous * r74d6667177cc 10/crawl-ref/source/goditem.cc: Make Fedhas hate scrolls of summoning; all abominations are part undead now. 10:52:13 03evilmike * rdb47f347101d 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/tomb_raider.des: Tweak ragdoll_tomb_raider. 10:56:40 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:51 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 11:01:05 something odd just happened and I'm not sure if it's a bug 11:01:05 I mentioned it in ##crawl 11:01:08 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:22 air is best skill, acquired a staff, got staff of wizardry instead of a staff of air 11:03:59 you can't get guaranteed stuff from acquirement any more 11:04:06 a staff of air was likely for you, but not 100% 11:13:30 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:54 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:12 03dolorous * rf73ac3f52f12 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Add changelog entries for new Twisted Resurrection and abomination holiness. 11:21:26 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:17 kilobyte: SIGALRM isn't really going to help us ensure that the process doesn't deadlock if the alarm() call comes after the mutex acquisition attempt, though ... 11:29:06 I mostly just put the comment there because it might act up on other OSes, or with unusual signal sources, or something ... 11:31:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:02 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:42 yay, Microsoft's documentation on CRITICAL_SECTION mistakes re-entrancy with thread safety :( 11:42:39 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:01 OMGWTFBBQ, we call alarm() only #ifdef UNIX :p I did implement it on Windows but failed to remove the #ifdef :p 11:51:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:57 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:06 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:32 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:45 kilobyte: they are kinda closely related ... 12:34:08 * SamB_ toys with the idea of using the C++0x thread API; goes to read about it ... 12:36:05 one problem: OSX PowerPC builds use GCC 4.0 since Apple didn't bother to port its changes, and non-Apple GCC doesn't work with their SDK 12:36:50 well, I don't know what the API is, and note that I didn't say anything about necessarily using a system-provided implementation of the API 12:39:04 I _suspect_ it uses pthreads internally 12:39:35 (same for other implementations, at least that's what I'd do instead of reinventing the wheel) 12:41:34 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:46:03 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:29 is crawl still supporting osx powerpc? 12:49:07 AFAIK there are actual users 12:53:10 I suppose my mental image of the typical mac user is of someone who wouldn't go 4-6 years without a hardware upgrade :P 12:54:06 well, crawl users may not be typical 12:54:39 true! 12:55:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55:21 playing crawl on some ancient powerpc system seems more normal than playing crawl on a phone, which I've just learned people do 12:56:17 kilobyte: The standard seems to indicate that there's nothing precisely wrong with using stuff like #include "stdio.h", as long as none of the ""-specific places have that matches stdio.h in them 12:56:24 +things 12:56:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:12 oh ok, at least cppcheck throws a fatal error claiming the include is missing 12:58:35 yeah, it does suggest that one should do it this way in general 13:06:41 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:51 hmm, I was wrong, C++11 explicitely allows this, so this is a bug in cppcheck 13:18:03 Distortion effect banishing even on 0 damage dealt (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5220) by srulz 13:20:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:26 still, it's goode style ;-) 13:31:31 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:36:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:29 * SamB_ thinks that char16_t/char32_t are long overdue 13:47:36 uhm, what for? 13:48:51 something to do with WINE, maybe ? 13:48:52 especially since char is supposed to stand for a single unit of memory (octet or such), not something bigger 13:49:14 if they were sane, wchar_t would handle it 13:49:38 wchar_t is only one size 13:49:51 actually, wchar_t is always 16 bits on Windows 13:50:03 ha, chei bot 13:50:09 yes, but tends to be 32-bits on Linux 13:50:43 SamB_: why not just uint16_t? how would that be different at all from char16_t? 13:51:03 the most important aspect is probably the string literal suffixes 13:52:02 er, prefixes 13:53:16 * SamB_ wonders if MS will support C11 13:53:58 does C11 say something there? 13:54:11 say something where? 13:54:14 other than L"meow" ? 13:55:13 it looks like you get u"moo", U"baa", and u8"oink" 14:06:16 * SamB_ wonders why stdint.h uses __extension__ on anything involving "long long" -- he thought that was included in C99... 14:09:00 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:03 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:43 isn't there a way in git to commit edits line-by-line? I think I should be using --interactive, but it's somewhat cryptic 14:12:54 maybe it's called -p ? 14:14:07 -p just calls interactive without the selection screen 14:14:30 but yeah you can only split chunks to a certain degree 14:17:04 ah, -p seems to be what I was looking for, thanks 14:18:17 there's always the SVN way: manually edit the diff then patch it :p 14:19:14 * SamB_ thinks git supports "manually edit the patch, then stage the edited patch" somehow? 14:19:41 it does, but you really don't need nor want that usually. 14:20:32 well, depends on what you mean by "manually", to some extent 14:22:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:24:40 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:21 -!- blabber has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:32:21 when I select an item in my inventory screen, the letter assigned to it always is uppercase 14:32:42 this confuses me a bit because i see the same glyph for e.g. the items with c and C 14:33:53 same with spells 14:34:00 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:08 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:19 -!- wtface has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:26 i cant find this on the tracker, could you report it? 14:36:25 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:38:58 yep 14:39:56 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:31 -!- Xiberia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:41 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:17 Item and spell letters on description page get capitalized (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5221) by chris 14:46:15 03kilobyte * r66c1fb35ba5e 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/swamp.des: A vital fix to equalize dividers in swamp.des 14:46:26 03kilobyte * rcd7266117a08 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-ench.cc monster.h): Validate every query of the mon_ench cache in debug builds. 14:46:26 03kilobyte * rc65e5207105c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc mon-util.cc): Fix missing enchantments on monster clone or polymorph. 14:46:26 03kilobyte * rc950d94baf5e 10/crawl-ref/source/crash.cc: Actually call our alarm() on Windows. 14:48:23 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:27 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:58:37 * SamB_ kinda wishes C++11 had a manual... 15:03:36 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:02 mmh a abyss out gate just dumped me on d:15 though i entered through a portal on d:22 15:13:41 on a escape hatch towards d:14 to be specific 15:13:53 weird 15:26:18 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:26 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 15:44:45 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:45:35 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:10 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:46 -!- HangedMan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:49:38 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:49:45 -!- HangedMan_ is now known as HangedMan 16:00:25 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:01:28 -!- Red_Bucket has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:40 Does anyone know how to give quad damage in arena? 16:04:54 I want to see if antaeus with quad can kill the royal jelly in one shot 16:09:24 ??bailey 16:09:24 bailey[1/2]: A forbidden dungeon of the mad chevalier. A timed portal vault. It's full of axes, polearms, gnolls, orcs, or elves, depending on the RNG. Loot is somewhere between "some crappy axes" and "multiple scrolls of acquirement." Note that Teleport Control is sometimes blocked inside. 16:09:44 ??bailey [2] 16:09:45 bailey[2/2]: One bailey: 4 scrolls of acquirement, 3 potions of experience, 2 potions of magic, a potion of resistance, a potion of gain dex, EW I and EW II, a potion of heal wounds, and a ring of control teleport. 16:12:25 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:17 Red_Bucket: monsters can't use it currently 16:15:04 kilobyte: he suggested quad damage as a xom effect (and I remember you were looking for an excuse to add quad damage :P ) 16:15:16 and with elliptic reverting my attempt to sneak quads into the game, I think coding such support would be a waste of effort right now 16:15:30 you mean, quad damage for monsters? 16:15:38 now that's a way :) 16:16:19 well I think it's only fair that if he offers it for players, he'd also offer it for monsters 16:16:47 actually, perhaps he'd just say QUAD DAMAGE and everything in sight gets the quad damage buff for 10 turns 16:16:55 I don't know if elliptic would have a problem with that :) 16:17:49 (of course, for real fun you need quad+pent :p) 16:18:24 that'd be unxomly, though 16:18:35 he could cast death's door on you 16:19:07 we still need a shock combo spell 16:19:37 iron shot to ground them 16:19:40 earth/air ftw 16:19:52 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:35 conjure ball lightning and then cast imb at one 16:21:04 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:21:30 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 16:25:25 BrocoLee (L19 HOPr) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1114 failed. (Hive:2) 16:25:25 evilmike: should be iood, rather than cbl 16:25:34 hitting one with an imb should instantly blow it up 16:26:05 that would be more like UT definitely 16:27:03 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:11 * SamB_ wonders why GNU's doesn't have comments regarding the template-based GCD implementation... 16:27:46 ps if anyone has an idea on how to get a spell that throws an exploding stone when you cast it, that'd be helpful 16:27:52 Add quad damage, but make it only able to be gotten as a god gift from xom 16:27:57 Also, reduce it to triple damage 16:28:01 the code is so convoluted when it comes to bolts/beams/ranged attacks that i hate it forever 16:28:31 And add support for monsters so I can do it in arena 16:29:11 "reduce quad damage to triple damage" is a terrible suggestion! 16:29:23 But that's how they balanced it in quake 16:29:31 class ranged_attack, anyone ? 16:30:00 Red_Bucket: in q3 it's triple, originally it really was 4x though 16:30:44 I want to see if there's anything a quad pearl dragon can't kill in one hit 16:34:24 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:59 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:29 -!- petete has quit [*.net *.split] 16:38:29 -!- Pacra has quit [*.net *.split] 16:38:30 -!- |amethyst has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:26 hey I noticed a bug with fleeing 16:41:53 sometimes if a fleeing creature runs into a wall it just stays there with its fleeing ! 16:42:11 I guess because it isnt exactly cornered but it has no where to go thats farther away from the player 16:42:43 Eronarn: you mean like a fireball of stone 16:45:25 wtface: not sure if that's a bug or not, but it's fairly longstanding... just tested it in 0.10 and 0.9 16:46:16 seems to happen when you pin the monster against a flat wall 16:46:37 I guess that's a bug, either the monster should pick a random direction to move or stop fleeing 16:48:15 Wensley: sort of, but low level 16:48:37 Eronarn: well then I'd still just say copy fireball and tweak the numbers :P 16:49:11 Wensley: it's a different effect from fireball. it's the same as explosion branded ammo currently 16:49:43 how do the exploding ammo brand and fireball differ, mechanically 16:50:09 the former can actually hit and do damage, whereas the latter just explodes at the targeted location 16:50:19 i think the damage of the explosion is based on the missile damage, also 16:50:22 Wensley: fireball is a regular auto-hit explosion, exploding ammo are an unholy hack 16:50:31 that too 16:50:51 also, reflection 16:51:38 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:39 basically i'd rather do it right the first time 16:54:29 Eronarn: perhaps just copy portal projectile and hardcode its projectile to be a stone with the exploding brand 16:55:40 that doesn't sound right, somehow 16:57:01 Wensley: have you looked at the PP code? it's awful :P 16:57:10 haha 16:57:13 that is one of the first things i thought of, but all of the code to do with ranged attacks is abhorrent 16:57:16 evilmike: yeah, it should pick a random direction if both are equally good 16:57:35 there's only one thing that can be done 16:57:47 (w.r.t. ranged attacks) 16:58:02 that reminds me 16:58:10 so you want to make a ranged attack (whose code is a kludge) with a built-in exploding brand (whose code is a kludge) with all the attendant nuances, but not use any of the code for ranged attacks and exploding brands 16:58:15 we should make +0 ammo infinite and not show up on the floor 16:58:24 Wensley: huh? no 16:58:43 it should use the ranged attack / exploding brand code; just that the attack gets triggered by casting a spell 16:58:45 the thing that can be done is to un-kludge ranged attacks ... 16:59:00 Are there weapons that make missiles into exploding missiles 16:59:18 Maybe just as a fixedart because that would be pretty strong 16:59:27 used to be a spell that did it 16:59:34 I would enjoy the exploding-brand fixedart combined with eronarn's infinite ammo idea 16:59:46 What infinite ammo idea? 17:01:57 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:39 if you wield a launcher you can just fire it, no need for generic ammo 17:03:49 Also, one idea I had a while back was a rod that turns into a weapon when you evoke it. The type of weapon is based on your weapon skills and whether you're using a shield or not. You get better types at better evocation and plusses based on evo 17:04:08 Ranged weapons are too strong for that and we need arrows for sticks to snakes 17:04:18 03kilobyte * r5aa7ace1e5b0 10/crawl-ref/source/zotdef.cc: Don't specify loop limits twice in a couple of places. 17:04:22 you would need to nerf ranged combat, yes, and no you don't 17:04:26 lots of things work with sticks to snakes 17:04:29 03kilobyte * r7ba95e0d8a6d 10/crawl-ref/source/zotdef.cc: Fix the Ignacio in Zotdef crash. 17:04:30 they are only strong when you have enchanted equipment 17:04:41 But arrows are the lightest and stack 17:04:48 st_: early on it would be an issue 17:05:03 Also, throwing is an issue 17:05:14 no it's not; throwing you can use without unwielding anything 17:05:31 I'd love for infinite plain ammo 17:05:41 it's what tome does 17:05:46 it works so, so, sooooooooooo much better 17:05:50 How about just giving AM temp inf ammo 17:05:54 (keep in mind, the enemies have it too) 17:06:41 it would solve a ton of problems though 17:06:45 Also, previously mentioned rod would be enchantable and brandable and has launcher variants 17:07:03 ammo weight, ammo stacking, ammo pickup, shadow creatures/etc. ammo, milking monsters/traps for ammo 17:07:30 though how would you actually get highly enchanted ammo if it plain stuff doesn't show up 17:07:33 if ammo is unlimited- 17:07:35 yeah, that 17:08:12 you could remove ammo enchantments entirely, or have it be based on material, or have it be brand only 17:08:19 or some combination of the above 17:08:53 remember, ranged combat is already weird in that you have two things to enchant up 17:09:02 this would actually greatly simplify it if we dropped enchanted ammo at all 17:09:02 while ranged things are discussed, can something be done about needles of sickness 17:09:05 getting rid of the annoying scouring the dungeon for 1000 arrows and enchanting them all to +9 would probably be a good thing too, anyway 17:09:11 yeah 17:09:24 i feel like it's been left in purely because of ritual / history 17:09:46 So are rods that become weapons too narrow? 17:09:52 i agree about the ammo enchanting 17:11:57 why does mp cap at 50 17:13:01 Red_Bucket: a rod that becomes a weapon would just be the same as an item that when you found it became your highest skilled item 17:13:18 almost nobody changes skills midgame nowadays 17:13:54 weapon classes are really poorly differentiated compared to some games 17:14:36 Well, I want something that works based on evocations, can show up early and fairly common, and will be usable in very often. 17:14:47 And artificers can start with 17:15:00 that's nice but it's not a good idea for crawl 17:15:18 also, artificers start with a rod of striking... did that ever get changed to recharge when you hit things with it in melee? it definitely did get changed to act as a club, at least 17:15:34 no they don't 17:15:51 start with a rod, that is 17:15:57 (also, wtf @ 'can show up early and fairly common, and will be usable very often' - why would you think this is a *good* description of an item) 17:16:04 huh when did that change 17:16:18 0.9 probably 17:16:36 too bad, rod of striking is cute 17:16:49 all artificers start with 15 charge wand of random effect/flame/enslavement now 17:22:59 rod of striking pretty much only exists so deep dwarf artificers (the enemy) have a thing to attack you with 17:23:19 but it's bad, and I've thought recently that it would be better just to give them a random low tier attack wand (frost, flame, etc) or an occasional good one 17:23:44 staff acquirement buff 17:26:47 what's the point in those rods doing half the damage a mediocre wand does? 17:27:37 especially that monsters do 3.7 times the damage 17:37:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:02 I just wand something evokable that works as a main means of attack for artificers. 17:43:17 what if rod of striking was changed to do more melee damage based on evocation and it improved in melee damage with enchants 17:45:37 Red_Bucket: you do know about the elemental staves right 17:45:43 Yes 17:45:54 That's where the idea is from 17:46:11 considering the rousing success that those have been, why do one that is just pure evo 17:46:50 So artificers can start with a good main means of attack 17:53:55 they start with three wands 17:54:04 that's a pretty decent means of attack 17:55:02 You can't keep using wands though because they run out 17:55:37 yes, so you use melee 17:55:38 sure, that's part of what makes artificers interesting 17:56:33 they allow for great temple dive potential 17:56:34 Classes that are expected to use melee should start with a real weapon 17:56:53 you can take out a lot of nasty things with enslavement 17:57:11 artificers are for diving 17:57:16 not winning 17:57:36 likewise, chaos knights 17:58:09 Chaos knights ARE suppose to be viable, they're just greyed out because Xom isn't fixed yet 17:58:35 um 17:58:36 Also, I see no point in challenge races/classes when you can just do non-optimal combos 17:59:03 but ar isn't that bad 17:59:11 fi's worse, really 18:04:16 Still don't like any class that has to scavenge for a weapon. It doesn't make them game harder, just more tedious. 18:05:54 they start with a staff. its similar to a dagger. most starting weapons are crap. 18:06:21 artificer is a pretty solid start 18:06:38 healer starts with no weapon at all and they have to kill things at some point 18:06:42 you can survive the first couple levels by hitting things and you find a decent weapon pretty quikc 18:07:23 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:32 Red_Bucket: keep in mind that the point of classes is to get you as far as the temple, and sometimes as far as lair. after that, you're on your own 18:08:16 03evilmike * r5397891c7131 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/dk_crumbling.des: Remove some unneeded lines. 18:08:29 03evilmike * rdbbf23ffb16e 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc mon-gear.cc): Give Deep Dwarf Artificers (the monster) wands instead of rods of striking. 18:08:35 Healers should at least get a staff too 18:08:49 kilobyte: I just made striking crappy for monsters again, that asymmetry was to make DD artificer enemies not do 0 damage (after I took away their pointless 50% chance of being melee enemies) 18:08:58 HangedMan: deep vault filled with 100 kobolds, each with a random weak wand 18:09:04 but it's better just to give them weakish wands 18:09:36 When did they fix monsters with rF resisting hellfire 18:11:10 gitk 18:11:12 oops 18:11:23 I hate when I type things in irc like that 18:11:24 heh 18:11:27 heh 18:11:46 one more entry for irssi_unreasons 18:11:48 :> 18:12:33 cd goatporn 18:12:34 fffff 18:12:37 I actually use a gui irc client, it's just that my brain doesn't work properly 18:18:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:19:09 should makhleb accept durable summoned kills? 18:19:19 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:17 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:21:11 I dont think so... isn't the point of durable summons to have a semi-permanent enemy summoned against you, but which isn't scummable? 18:21:39 Asmodeuses sceptre can be farmed for loot and piety still 18:21:43 Like, it's a way of getting around how okawaru used to send genuine enemies at you that could be used for food and everything 18:22:01 sceptre scumming exists, in theory. In practice I don't think it's possible to do much 18:22:03 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:05 you'll get infinite demon whips 18:22:11 And XP 18:22:21 And piety for gods that like demon kills I guess 18:22:24 i don't think you get xp, you get piety though 18:22:39 good gods don't like the scepter so it doesn't help with TSO 18:27:38 Staff of Dispater and sceptre of Asmodeus use "TODO" tile when dropped (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5222) by evilmike 18:32:59 the only thing I can really think of is to use it to generate a gigantic stockpile of demon weapons, and then convert to ely for quick piety. This is probably bad enough to be worth fixing, even though I doubt anyone will ever do this. 18:33:57 gigantic stockpile for nemelex? 18:34:54 not unless you really like decks of destruction, no 18:35:46 they're somewhat better than before 18:35:54 still, it's mostly torment and draining 18:36:26 legendary destruction is quite good at killing stuff (full range LCS is great, and legendary orb is fun) 18:37:06 thankfully the AOE draining thing is gone 18:40:53 They need to get rid of "immune to hostile enchantments" and instead make it "its mind cannot be influenced." Because it doesn't make sense for golems to be immune to banishment 18:42:52 Why not? 18:43:20 Because it's not coated in some magical barrier that prevents it from transversing planes. 18:44:03 Banishment performs an MR check. 18:44:53 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:44:57 It's not a ... "magical barrier", more of a strength of mind to resist being banished. 18:45:23 What mind 18:45:26 Red_Bucket: you need to put aside these weird ideas you have about crawl and "planes". Some things are just immune to certain magical effects. 18:45:58 you can banish golems just fine with a distortion weapon, anyway 18:46:02 It also kinda doesn't make sense for jellies to be confusable 18:46:18 03N78291 * re37ea52216d1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files): New Ds mutation: Augmentation 18:46:21 golems are held together by magic 18:46:30 03MarvinPA * rcea76b6816b1 10/crawl-ref/source/art-func.h: Don't let Asmodeus summons drop items 18:47:07 Why aren't guardian mummies susceptible to fire. 18:47:14 Or mummy priests 18:47:21 magic 18:47:56 ??why 18:47:57 why[1/2]: Because Crawl hates you, that's why. 18:49:31 -!- upsy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:50 this is a game where an octopus can hit a floating evil toe with a double bladed sword 18:50:01 some parts of logic were thrown out a long time ago 18:51:03 double bladed sword is on my personal hating list 18:51:35 too bad, jpeg likes it, and since I want dpeg back badly it's better to keep her happy :p 18:51:49 (double sword -> bastard sword, triple sword -> claymore) 18:52:25 with a dire flail 18:53:07 there's that youtube video that explains how triple swords work, I think it's in the learndb 18:53:08 an ugly D&Dism 18:54:17 03edlothiol * r4e1f00833af7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc spl-book.cc): Fix the spellbook reading menu in webtiles. 18:54:27 03edlothiol * r74a1312639a2 10/crawl-ref/source/items.cc: Fix #5222: Staff of Dispater and sceptre of Asmodeus use "TODO" tile when dropped. 18:54:47 evilmike: you mean, the claymore type (long crossguard at an 45⁰ angle, somehow resembling daggers), or the Star Wars prequel on drugs type? 18:55:01 ??triple sword[2] 18:55:01 triple sword[2/2]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OU96za6czU 18:55:23 It's apparently a sword that shoots swords 18:55:34 swordchucks? 18:55:54 fr chainsawchucks 18:56:32 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:56:38 * due also wants dpeg back 19:06:03 Firestorm can't ignite trees 19:06:05 Why not 19:08:22 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:27 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:13 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:44 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 19:14:20 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:14:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:06 -!- Red_Bucket has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:17:28 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:23 Targetting code leaks who is the true Mara or rakshasa. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5223) by CommanderC 19:27:24 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:47 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:17 03kilobyte * refe0edf4a8ab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation.cc status.cc): Indentation fixes. 19:56:17 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:37 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:12 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:26 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:22:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:53 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:35:09 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:11 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:07 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:25 03kilobyte 07nomes * rb57cc4930078 10/crawl-ref/ (934 files in 77 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into nomes 20:52:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52:42 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:35 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:04:18 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:37 kilobyte: !?!!!?!!?!!??!???!??!?!?!? 21:07:57 be still, my nomish heart 21:08:48 there's not enough room in 0.11 for lava orc *and* nome experimentation 21:11:17 Wensley: I merged it for shits and giggles, but it turned out the combat rewrite caused enough conflicts that rerere cannot keep the merge :( Pushed it as-is then, to reduce duplicated effort. 21:11:59 I quite fail to see the race in anytime soon, at least not without big UI and autoexplore changes 21:12:30 and balance is about as bad as that of lava orcs... perhaps even lava orcs 1.0 21:12:47 why do ball lightnings give 1024 exp? 21:13:48 @??ball lightning 21:13:48 ball lightning (11*) | Speed: 20 | HD: 12 | Health: 1 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 5 | Flags: 11non-living, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind | XP: 1024 | Sp: b.lightning (3d18). 21:14:07 i don't see why they wouldn't 21:14:15 the aerie vault... 21:14:54 well, 1hp means you use any shitty wand for free XP 21:15:13 preferably magic dart 21:16:07 I was screwing around with a sixfirhy and ball lightning vault when I noticed those are kind of over-experienced 21:18:32 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:59 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:48 < HangedMan> there's not enough room in 0.11 for lava orc *and* nome experimentation 21:48:51 why not 21:50:10 well yes there is room and there's always room I was just being silly 21:54:36 kilobyte: did you try out new lava orcs? they are much better balanced 21:55:12 what were their recent changes 21:55:41 much less damage on their damaging abilities, and they kic in later, and the aura is only radius 1 21:56:01 ring of temperature 21:56:37 we actually could add the temperature stuff via an unrand 21:56:49 or spell, or mutation 21:57:27 an unrand with temperature before an unrand with retaliation, madness 21:57:48 lava orc form 21:59:29 high level transmutations that isn't the raw damage of dragon form or the weighted utilities of lich form, hmm 22:00:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:00:54 we need sky beast form 22:01:33 and the stabbing spell with taking air out of lungs and etc etc etc 22:01:37 yes 22:01:40 for stalker book 22:02:12 HangedMan: we obviously need a randart with constriction 22:02:18 some kind of animate whip 22:02:29 ??snakebite 22:02:53 snakebite[1/1]: This is an unrandart +5, +10 whip of venom with poison resistance. Not bad for poisoning. Not good otherwise. 22:15:59 ring effects lost when in transmuted form (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5224) by bein 22:17:33 hahaha, he didn't notice spider form's rpois- 22:18:26 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:43:12 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:31 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:34 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:35 03evilmike * r496a1a7309db 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des: Fewer oklobs in the zotdef parody vault. 23:33:28 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:37:01 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:04 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:06 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 23:45:54 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]