00:02:05 03dolorous * rb34015d884a2 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Add changelog entry for killer bee larva upgrading-through-eating. 00:02:15 03dolorous * r5e4577265ca8 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Add spacing fix. 00:03:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3162-g42b638e (32) 00:19:09 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3164-g5e45772 00:34:27 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:00 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:17 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:14 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:12 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:15 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:38 -!- cbus_ is now known as cbus 01:11:20 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:05 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:30 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:26 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:14 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:44 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:17 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:06:10 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:30 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:22:49 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:28 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:11 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 03:43:44 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:07 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:33 -!- Nexos_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:34 -!- Nexos_ has left ##crawl-dev 04:06:47 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:48 MarvinPA: any thoughts about 0.10? Looks like all to do is 1. bugs (many but minor), 2. what with constriction balance? 04:32:10 (we were supposed to freeze on Dec 15, it's half of January already) 04:32:19 beards 04:33:37 as in, draconians and octopodes being able to grow beards in the doll editor? I think this has been fixed already (can't check right now). 04:35:24 Constriction is incredibly awful right now (Snake Pit is much, much harder than it used to be for melee characters) 04:40:10 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:59 as in, "ridiculously overpowered for both players and monsters", or something else? 04:42:43 As in "if you're facing multiple nagas then feel the pain" 04:43:23 Heck, even as a MiBe with an exe axe I ended up having to BiA and quaff !healing to stay alive 04:43:29 they just weren't dying! 04:43:46 and were doing sufficient damage to me every turn that it was touch and go 04:43:46 and then I died 04:45:00 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:02 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:53:55 minotaur gets additional AC by equipping (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5213) by cosmonaut 05:05:35 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 05:20:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:11 so I made an entry vault 05:25:32 :D 05:27:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36:39 I have a question though 05:36:57 is there a way I can make it stick to any edge of the map but not be in the middle? 05:37:18 -!- rawrmage has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 05:37:37 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:38 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 05:37:38 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:43 ORIENT: can be north or northeast (and other values that are redundant after reflections) 05:38:55 ooooohhh 05:39:06 right that makes sense, since I do allow it to rotate 05:41:18 the edge that was supposed to stick stays, of course 05:41:29 (edge of the vault, not its absolute orientation) 06:15:46 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:48 kilobyte: constriction is pretty brutal right now. formula realy needs work 06:50:50 also, werent tiny fliers (such as bats) supposed be be immune according to the proposal? 06:51:04 i think that got lost along the way 06:55:51 -!- Nexos_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:45 I get two areas (magic-mapped) in Lair:1 that only have stairs up and hatches downstairs. Bug? 06:56:57 (not accessible from Lair:2) 07:02:43 imo its stupid, its also quite annoying in slime and orc 07:02:46 but i dont think its a bug 07:02:56 secondary branch exits should count as hatches imo 07:04:43 You can't get to those arease without tele/tele^ or digging means. Are only areas without any exit considered buggy? 07:05:15 im not sure, there are some connectivity checks 07:05:27 basically, if you cant get stuck its not a major problem 07:06:45 So if an area on level N is only connected two-ways with level N+1, that's also checked? 07:07:17 Place: An Ice_cave 07:07:19 i dont know how it works. the easiest way to guarantee being able to reach D:1 from any point is to guarantee connection to an upwards exit 07:07:29 so i suspect thats how it works 07:07:59 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:02 -!- wtface has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 07:08:11 plus being able to reach all the runes and zot:5 also needs to be guaranteed, so theres usually a downward exit too 07:08:36 zaba probably knows about this stuff 07:09:16 anyway, branch exits being considered entry points is annoying, but doesnt disrupt connectivity 07:43:29 alefury: tried converting them to hatches, but a naive conversion (within portal_branches) resulted you in being placed in random places like for real hatches 07:43:46 quite understandably 07:45:49 I still don't think the branch entry 1to3 thing makes sense. 07:46:07 Would be nice to have the entrances sprea docver a few D levels instead or something. 07:46:29 Skills remain on a new character (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5214) by PerverseSuffering 07:48:44 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:26 ghallberg: 1to1 might indeed be better 08:00:54 yeah, there isn't much point to multiple branch exits, is there 08:01:24 alefury, I'm afraid I don't know much about interlevel connectivity 08:05:14 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:15 The good thing is being able to escape even if one exit is blocked by hydras or w/e. 08:09:57 vault making question, how can you randomize the quanitity of a item? for example KITEM: ? = q:100 gold 08:13:29 you either use existing randomness (like: "KITEM: ? = gold, gold, gold" for thrice the amount for a level-appropriate pile), use an alternative (q:100 gold / q:1 gold), or write it in Lua 08:18:21 is that the same, for example, a stone? i can recall there was a other way for it too 08:18:56 -!- rebthor has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:35 -!- rebthor has left ##crawl-dev 08:30:05 the singing sword is a bit broken right now 08:49:09 Eronarn: what's wrong? 08:49:49 kilobyte: the high-tension effect feels like it's doing some combination of too much damage, too low tension 08:50:37 i'm not sure if the intent was to make the damage be better from wielding it than from attacking with it 08:54:13 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:24 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:38 well, it was intentionally set high per dpeg's request 08:57:11 and dpeg may or may not return so not sure what to do there 08:57:25 oh, hmm 08:57:42 i just noticed - haloes don't color water, this is very irritating in shoals 08:57:47 also, may not return? huh? 08:59:12 his announcement was that "he's retiring, never to return, won't ever read IRC or the mailing lists ever again" 08:59:51 he does that every year 09:00:15 threatens to, this time he announced that "this time it's for sure" 09:00:48 me and Napkin talked to him afterwards, though, and it looks like he's already rethinking that :) 09:01:05 l - the +7 fire dragon armour "Kuosas" {rF++ rC- Dam+2} 6802 gold is this the normal fire dragon stats 09:01:08 they didn't used to get inscribed 09:01:45 or did i just get really lucky and get rF++++ armor 09:01:49 no, he doesn't do that every year, he was just pissed and the thought of stopping to work on crawl came first last year, Eronarn 09:02:13 kilobyte, he called me, we're going to finance this survey website together 09:02:13 and seriously, no one seems to be able to get devs into order like him 09:02:35 we didn't have much time to talk though 09:02:38 agreed, kilobyte 09:03:19 so it's pretty vital to get him back, (or get something with people skills, but since there's no such person on the devteam currently, there'd be no sense of authority and thus this wouldn't work) 09:04:09 I'm just the Hausmeister, but would agree to that as well 09:04:26 Napkin: "survey" as in...? You mentioned it before but I'm not sure what you're talking about. 09:04:55 oh, remember the last survey for players? 09:05:24 jpeg and dpeg planned the next one, but this time at an online service instead of doing it again per email 09:05:58 including the notification in a released version? 09:06:12 questions like "did you win yet?", "did the tutorial help you get started?", etc, etc 09:06:12 so you'd get the offline players as well 09:06:58 i really don't know all the details yet, bhaak - surely hope so 09:07:25 did i ever mention that perl rules!? 09:07:38 you're soooo oldskool, Napkin 09:08:04 perhaps we could add this to 0.10 somehow? Once per install on local systems, once per account on CAO/CDO. 09:08:07 fun and easy, very few workarounds to get something done.. it's just great :D 09:08:14 the idea about putting something into a released version was around at the last survey already. but that one was so impromput 09:08:49 i heard a "get it ready until" - so i believe that's planned 09:09:22 -!- Nexos_ has left ##crawl-dev 09:09:29 oh, what about this: the question is asked if you're running 0.10 for the first time but there were 0.9 or earlier files lying around 09:09:36 jpeg mailed me a while ago about my experience with an online site. i used one where you could use a html form and they emailed you the answers. but this site got overtaken by scammers since then o_O 09:09:39 impromput = impromptu? 09:09:42 yes 09:09:48 stop making be use a dictionary! 09:09:59 ;) 09:10:02 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3164-g5e45772 (32) 09:10:15 hehe, sorry, this is irc, not usenet. i don't have an onthefly dictionary in this :) 09:10:41 :) 09:10:49 wait, i got an email asking me to test 09:11:46 jpeg search through some wordpress addons for doing surveys, but they all sucked 09:12:02 yeah, i remember she said that. i wasn't surprised :) 09:12:04 Napkin: Goole survey? 09:12:08 Google* 09:12:09 so in the end, it seems we're going with kwiksurveys.com - paying 100$ to get rid of the advertisement 09:12:43 ghallberg: i had no time to search myself - i'm glad she found something useable 09:12:59 so.. not sure google survey was an option or even considered 09:13:23 google survey like the one they use on blogspot? they are just multiple choice type of surveys AFAIK 09:13:31 for a few forms and couple of MB(!) of transfer? Seems... pricey. 09:13:36 Napkin: Ah, I thought she hadn't found anything. 09:13:50 if so, kwiksurvey is more advanced 09:14:00 indeed, kilobyte 09:14:17 i wish there was a proper open-source solution we could host on CDO 09:15:13 Google Surveys can do text input/lists, etc. Dunno what you feel it's missing bhaak. But if we have something more professional it's all good :) 09:15:50 Napkin: evaluated limesurvey yet? 09:15:51 check for yourself, ghallberg (link via irc notice) 09:15:52 besides, with Crawl's userbase, >95% have AdBlock installed anyway :p 09:15:57 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:06 hehe, kilobyte 09:16:16 got to trot, bwanas 09:16:18 -!- ZorbaBeta has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:23 a quick google shows limesurvey 09:16:24 chrisoelmueller: unfortunately, i didn't have time to check any myself 09:16:26 Napkin: where should we direct the nitpicking? :) 09:16:40 i met some of their guys and they are open source for sure at least :) 09:17:01 a demo 'server' is hosted here: http://survey.limesurvey.org/index.php?sid=78184&lang=en 09:17:09 bhaak: /dev/null of course :> constructive criticism of course @me for example 09:17:42 ghallberg: ah, i'll have to check that out. I'm not sure if i've seen google survey before. 09:18:01 bookmarked, thanks, chrisoelmueller! 09:18:05 Napkin: gosh! there's a difference between nitpicking and constructive criticism? explains a lot 09:18:09 sure 09:18:18 bhaak: :-P 09:19:07 geez, this day is dragging along... 09:19:14 someone end it already! 09:21:45 the world is coming to an end this year! you have to enjoy every day that is left! 09:22:42 <+Napkin> i wish there was a proper open-source solution we could host on CDO 09:22:45 drupal has survey tools 09:23:08 rofl, Eronarn 09:24:17 well, bhaak, 3 Friday the 13ths this year! It's a sign ;> 09:24:44 http://demo.limesurvey.org/index.php?sid=88179&lang=en 09:24:52 because i seemed to be bored 09:25:18 oh, nevermind. 09:25:40 should work now 09:26:13 hey ragdoll 09:26:42 check the link in the notice - if you still seem bored, try to recontruct that? :)) 09:27:04 donating 100$ to them would feel way better than pay kwiksurvey.com 09:29:47 checking out if i can make it in the demo right now, then export it to something usable 09:30:19 cool :) 09:30:49 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:14 Unidentified cursed items on floor have red cursed border (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5215) by XuaXua 09:33:33 -!- ZorbaTHut has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:58 huh, dpeg left? 09:54:01 what happened? 09:54:59 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:45 alefury: constriction fuckups 10:01:37 what fuckups? its just not balanced, right? 10:02:00 and the commit log looked rather straightforward 10:02:23 the only related commit i saw is no more teleport funkiness 10:02:33 yeah, that's it 10:02:39 which is a litte sad, but seems necessary due to the reasons in the commit message 10:03:03 I think dpeg wanted or dind't want somethign reverted 10:03:07 no one listened 10:03:36 But constriction is horrifically powerful right now and makes Snake Pit so, so dangerous 10:04:00 the original implementation was closer to what dpeg wanted actually 10:04:04 ah. maybe ill read the logs. i hope he comes back. :( 10:04:12 the main change to that (translocations lets you escape) made constriction less dangerous 10:05:06 especially to those who get easy escape everywhere else already because they have blink... 10:05:28 the commit message had some very good arguments, though 10:06:20 teleport other with s2s is pretty convincing 10:06:55 I agree with it completely, the interactions between translocations and constriction were poorly thought out and problematic 10:07:06 I died in Snake Pit with an MiBe that walked Lair and Orcish Mines 10:07:11 although only a minor abuse I guess, after all teleport self was mostly reduced because it was redundant with about 100 other sources of tele 10:07:18 I think an anti-tloc effect would be decent to have in crawl, such as a monster spell that affects you with -Tele 10:07:28 just not with constriction, as it currently works 10:07:39 (had the salamander end, scrolls were being burnt up and had multiple nagas on me) 10:07:57 well, going to snake:5 after lair and orc is pretty early 10:08:18 i died in that snake end when i did that, and that was before constriction 10:08:31 i was being stupid though, i had no rP 10:08:36 poison arrows hurt 10:08:48 i also had no rF 10:08:49 yeah, its alright for rune branches to be harder. Snake is tough right now, but keep in mind it used to be harder too (back when poison arrow was mostly unresistable, which meant it was like 3x nastier) 10:09:32 it should get better when someone comes up with a good formula for struggling to escape 10:10:32 theres a tavern thread about constriction balance, started by galehar 10:10:33 alefury: I had rPoison 10:10:36 so maybe hes working on it 10:10:37 and rF+ 10:10:51 well, constriction makes things much harder, no doubt about that 10:10:53 but with rPoison not being 100% 10:10:57 and with constriction 10:11:03 it's a crapshoot 10:11:39 snake:5 has no extra loot, so might as well just put it off till later. there really isnt much reason to go there early. 10:11:51 actually, Snake5 was harder mostly because of the lack of corridoors 10:11:51 the threat is currently quite appropriate for that imo 10:12:02 Then I sit corrected 10:12:05 snake:5 is harder because greater nagas 10:12:12 the xp value also isn't that high 10:12:16 lava snakes and salamanders 10:12:18 @??greater naga 10:12:18 greater naga (13N) | Speed: 8 (act: 80%) | HD: 15 | Health: 61-102 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Damage: 27 | Flags: spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poisonous | XP: 1678 | Sp: b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other, teleport self. 10:12:26 its pretty okay 10:13:00 greater nagas are really pretty close to stone giants in threat level due to equipment 10:13:04 I just mean, you don't exactly need it. The main reason to do snake earlyish is for floor loot, in my opinion 10:13:16 same goes with elf:1-4, which have pitiful xp, but can have items 10:13:27 or for the rune 10:13:40 yeah, i always did snake:1-4 pretty early because easy 10:13:43 you don't need the rune until just before you enter zot, so you can skip that 10:13:53 now its harder, but i dont see anything wrong with that 10:14:18 not everything has to stay the same all the time 10:17:15 a bit too hard maybe, but snake being harder than it was is fine 10:17:22 the real problem is early game player constriction imo 10:17:28 way out of line 10:18:09 yeah, it's too high. I think the only question is how much to cut it by 10:25:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:10 royalaaron (L2 MuWz) ASSERT(!crawl_state.is_repeating_cmd()) in 'main.cc' at line 4368 failed. (D:1) 10:37:38 btw, nice timing with the spell failure percentages. dpeg is gone ==> adjectivicide 10:38:01 i was a bit surprised at the lack of opposition, that explains it 10:38:27 dpeg actually more or less supported it :P 10:38:54 oh. i thought he used to be against it. nice. 10:39:05 he originally wanted fractions, but there are issues with showing it that way 10:39:21 yeah, i read the mantis discussion 10:39:24 the idea was that fractions would be clearer.. but in practice I don't think that's true 10:39:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:55 i'm also fine with crawl using adjectives for stealth, MR, etc. Numbers would be rather useless there 10:40:00 i havent played with the percentages yet, but it seems like it would be pretty clear 10:40:04 yeah 10:41:28 it gets a little weird at the high end. is extremely or uncannily better? 10:42:04 generally only something that changes is needed. i think i would prefer a bar, like for spellpower 10:43:01 -!- ZorbaTHut has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:19 uncannily is better 10:43:40 i know, but its confusing 10:43:53 the words could be better, yes 10:43:54 very slightly confusing 10:44:57 "super-duper stealthy" 10:46:01 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 10:53:10 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:16 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:26 As a player it makes no sense to hide something from me if I could theoretically work it out, if it's useful to me 10:57:45 (which is also why I think "hunger" should be a stated value not using adjectives) 10:58:07 can hunger be dead-reckoned in Crawl? it can't in NetHack 10:58:25 I believe so. 10:58:42 Why can't it be in NetHack? 10:59:32 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:52 the amount of hunger gained from eating is somewhat random, IIRC 10:59:55 something like that, anyway 10:59:59 TAEB tries to calculate it and gets it wrong 11:00:04 perhaps it's just using the wrong formula 11:00:07 Ah. 11:00:12 I don't think crawl uses any randomness with hunger 11:00:59 it doesn't 11:01:05 it's just obfuscation for the sake of it 11:01:19 heck, we have two ways of measuring turns in crawl, both of which can be visible to the player 11:01:28 But maybe this is a fight for another time 11:01:32 oh actually there is some randomness in hunger, with rounding 11:04:45 Items dropped by uniques that are autoinscribed with their names don't get rc file autoinscriptions added (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5216) by pivotal 11:28:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:39 -!- kek has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:59 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:09 we should use this opportunity to add more turtles and under-300-year quotes to crawl 11:41:24 what about a turtle ninja with a katana 11:57:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:20:22 03edlothiol * r3fe31b4f7fa1 10/crawl-ref/source/tilereg-inv.cc: Fix curse status being leaked for items on the floor in the tiles inventory region. 12:22:12 napkin: quick test: http://83.81.138.23/limesurvey/index.php?sid=75161&lang=en 12:23:57 03dolorous * r2a24dec4881a 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Wrap changelog entry. 12:24:13 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:42 03dolorous * rad7626de1c82 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Move and reword one changelog entry. 12:24:45 03dolorous * ra1cbb7544139 10/crawl-ref/source/godconduct.cc: Add formatting fixes. 12:26:05 looks nice, Ragdoll 12:26:26 does it provide the option to have answers in tables? with check and radio boxes? 12:26:51 yeah 12:26:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:26:54 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:27:39 i also realised after finally figuring out how to work with iis/mysql/php and finally xammp i didnt really need to, haha. 12:27:45 survey participants should be cookie based, not ip - did you see that possibility? 12:28:00 hehehe 12:30:29 Set cookie to prevent repeated participation? Yes/No option here 12:33:54 looks pretty slick :) 12:39:30 we could add some logo-related stuff 12:39:47 both turtles AND <300-year-old 12:41:14 * SamB thinks he first saw the "turtles all the way down" idea in one of Infocom's own Zorks -- probably Beyond Zork? 12:41:29 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:08 -!- BlastHardcheese has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:26 Soo ... C++ is, like, really damn complicated! 12:43:29 hmm. 12:44:05 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:26 I wonder if we could get something out of using some C++0x features *conditionally*, to help us catch mistakes in the code... 12:48:22 like, declaring certain conversion/copying functions as "explicit" 12:49:17 SamB: C++11 is out now 12:49:21 ah, right, 0xB 12:53:40 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:14 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:48 napkin: http://83.81.138.23/limesurvey/index.php?sid=75161&newtest=Y&lang=en 13:05:54 shows off the options a bit better 13:05:57 also my kickass logo 13:06:05 hehe 13:06:13 eating, will check later 13:09:33 what is that thing next to soup 13:09:38 is it soup 13:09:44 the kettle thing 13:09:53 ah 13:10:47 also haha i shuffled the x/y on the roguelike questionaire 13:11:55 huh? 13:12:03 on page two 13:12:08 round the bottom 13:12:26 i am already editing it, though 13:12:57 I dont know what you mean by shuffled, that's all 13:13:41 that's a pretty nice survey. I guess this saves dpeg/napkin 100 dollars 13:14:13 yeah, its pretty easy to edit too 13:15:40 hmmm, and this just breaks tables 13:15:46 will it be up for a while? 13:15:52 also, does it have user-management? 13:15:55 Napkin: my comments: http://pastebin.com/XDi72P4C 13:16:11 like, can you add additional administrators/survey managers, Ragdoll? 13:17:03 i can add groups and users, and give users these rights:SuperAdministrator Create survey Configurator Create user Delete user Use all/manage templates Manage labels 13:17:12 perfect 13:17:43 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:04 not much functionality of groups besides one-button-mailing 13:19:42 bhaak: I can see splitting tome into tome2 and tome4, but I don't think 3 was actually abandoned 13:19:49 you can check all functionalities yourself actually, check http://demo.limesurvey.org/admin/admin.php 13:19:59 username: admin, pass:test 13:20:00 err I meant "I don't think tome 3 was actually released". It was abandoned 13:20:14 03dolorous * r22d70dfe7d88 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Add comments about crawling corpses/macabre masses' having dual holiness. 13:20:30 evilmike: not even preview releases? 13:20:54 Oh, I think it was available yeah. Just not something people play, really 13:21:07 it seems like the tome equivalent of the crawl 4.1 alpha 13:22:05 i know too less about the old tome versions say anything besides that tome4 is a complete different beast :) 13:22:11 evilmike: http://pastebin.com/R6EdMdUE 13:22:15 if you want to get your hands dirty 13:22:25 your example is way better to quickly show it to the other devs, Ragdoll - thank you very much, I sent it on 13:24:16 Ragdoll: thanks 13:27:23 Ragdoll: what's this: "#SHUFFLE: M4"? 13:28:39 oh, i was/am still unsure about where i want to place the mummy �levels�, and that was/is a leftover 13:29:19 i guess it�s best to remove it 13:32:36 I see. When you're unsure about something, you can leave it up to the rng to decide for you 13:32:48 although in this case I'd probably try not to place all the nasty stuff in one spot 13:34:46 yeah, by removing the line it should be pretty even 13:34:55 looks fun at d:18/19. just searching for vaults entrance 13:35:06 why do rings of evasion auto-ID but EV properties on randarts do not? 13:36:01 i was thinking of merging the M4 and 2/3 groups, and then shuffling the M2 and 1 with eachother 13:36:18 but it was needlessly complex for not a lot of gain so i ditched it but missed the shuffle line 13:43:34 -!- iasov has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:58 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:35 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:53 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:37 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: Rebooting...] 14:08:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:13 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:13 I'm getting my computer back, and am thinking about adding a Linux dual boot. which distro would work best / be needed most for helping dev? 14:17:08 debian, ubuntu, or fedora? 14:19:44 blueDave: they should all work much the same with respect to compiling Crawl 14:19:55 Debian and Ubuntu will be basically identical in terms of packages; on Fedora, they'll have different names 14:20:07 which means you won't be able to follow Debian directions exactly, but close enough 14:22:34 did we not add fedora directions recently? 14:22:52 (for what packages to install, I mean) 14:23:15 that wouldn't surprise me 14:24:07 yup, we seem to have 'em 14:24:30 I would personally recommend Debian over Ubuntu 14:25:04 I've heard that Ubuntu tends to change stuff for no real reason between releases ... 14:27:53 couldn't say about fedora 14:29:03 Debian has four repository update speeds 14:29:09 actually, five 14:29:16 oldstable, stable, test, unstable, experimental 14:29:24 install archlinux, problem solved 14:29:28 most people consider stable too slow for home use, and test and unstable too fast 14:29:41 (unstable is normally recommended over test, because bugs in it are fixed faster) 14:30:13 I think testing is fine, personally 14:31:00 oldstable doesn't get updates (except maybe security updates), afaik... 14:31:23 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:38 (though it's good to also have unstable in sources.list when you use testing, in case something got fixed there but not yet migrated) 14:33:52 and experimental isn't exactly what I would call a "speed"; most packages aren't found there at all, most of the time 14:35:34 that sounds awful 14:35:49 chrisoelmueller: which does? 14:36:16 i always get the feeling that i deal with something from centuries ago when it comes to debian 14:36:33 you must be thinking of "stable" 14:36:58 * SamB wonders what experimental's codename may be 14:37:02 not only the packages :) their whole mindset is so .. antique 14:37:19 "make everything work nicely together" is antique, is it? 14:38:20 -!- kek has quit [Quit: Saindo] 14:41:09 "give each package a maintainer (or several) to look after it for a while", too? 14:41:40 SamB: unstable is always codenamed Sid; and experimental isn't codenamed, as you're only meant to take individual packages from it 14:41:44 if you're developing them 14:42:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:57 yeah, I figured experimental probably wasn't codenamed, since it seems to be a place for alpha/HEAD versions and the like 14:44:41 but at the same time I was wondering who they could have named it after that would be even scarier than sid ;-) 14:44:43 blueDave: you're here so you're reasonably techy so ... 14:45:00 Debian -> Ubuntu -> Mint in order of apparent ease of use, user friendliness, and how much works "out of the box" 14:45:24 Personally I use Ubuntu at home because it mostly "just works" and where it doesn't the answer is usually a forum away to fix 14:45:56 phyphor: by -> you mean "less than"? 14:46:02 I didn't want the hassle of making Debian work 14:46:12 I mean an arrow of progression 14:46:18 Debian's caught up quite a way on userfriendliness 14:46:38 Right, but the design of Ubuntu is that it's Debian, plus some stuff to make it easier 14:46:45 and Mint is "like Ubuntu, but moreso" 14:46:58 yeah, I'm pretty techy :) 14:47:05 it was a little dismaying that the default debian setup, when i installed it a bit ago, included widgets that generated errors if they were clicked because they didn't point to anything 14:48:25 i have a current ubuntu on a stick, loaded that up to see what it looks like 14:48:40 blueDave: I could probably have made Debian work, but I switch ed to Ubuntu many years ago and it worked well enough so far 14:49:00 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:02 although maybe I WILL GET ROUND TO DECANTING MY DATA AND STARTING AFRESH 14:49:09 also capslock fail 14:49:20 took a bit to find out where a terminal could be launched, then a bit more to remember (from 5+ years ago) how to get root access 14:49:58 oh, and the current version of Ubuntu has the horrible new style but maybe I'll get used to it 14:50:10 why would you want to get used to it 14:50:28 phyphor: Gnome went crazy recently 14:50:32 yes 14:50:49 Gnome 3 is something I don't like at all; Unity, Ubuntu's replacement, is apparently like Gnome 3 but better, but that still means it's like Gnome 3 and therefore bad 14:50:53 f course I could Kubuntu 14:51:04 KDE 4 is beginning to catch up on where KDE 3 was 14:51:12 it made its stupid mistake several years ago now and has almost recovered 14:51:12 but I'm lazy 14:52:01 what mistake was that? 14:53:08 I only ever used gnome (would've been gnome 2) 14:53:52 -!- blueDave has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:54:06 Oh, does KDE no longer suck? 14:54:12 As much? 14:54:22 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:35 dtsund: not as much as it used to 14:54:39 but it's not fully nonsucky yet 14:55:16 Was Linux Mint going to stick with MATE instead of GNOME 3? 14:55:29 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:40 dtsund: from what I've heard, they're trying to write an extension to Gnome 3 that makes it work like Gnome 2 14:56:17 Depending on how that pans out, my next upgrade will probably be to either Mint or Xubuntu. 14:56:30 most people's only objection to Gnome 3 is in the graphical shell (the bit you interact with when it loads), and that's the bit they're overriding 14:56:48 incidentally, Ubuntu have been doing something similar as a fallback, but I've heard they're planning to remove it 14:57:00 only Ubuntu are doing it with a rejigged version of gnome-panel (the only really relevant bit) 15:01:36 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:36 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:05 -!- ais523 has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:29 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:32 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:32 -!- ais523 has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:10:37 -!- ais523_ is now known as ais523 15:22:50 -!- upsy has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:20 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:35 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:40 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:55 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:21 okay ... that's odd! 16:07:54 I got an oops on my Debian system, but the kernel didn't actually crash ... 16:09:31 it would be useful to be able to assign your unarmed slot a letter 16:10:08 that way you could quick switch between a/b using uc 16:10:34 assigning b to something unwieldable works iirc (try a potion or stuff) 16:11:00 everything is wieldable 16:11:08 something unwieldy 16:11:17 and it works as long as a or b ar not assigned at all 16:12:20 you wield the potion on b when you press '? doesn't do that here 16:12:29 swap doesn't wield unwieldy stuff; this was once annoying for anyone attempting felid transmuter... 16:13:02 i stand corrected 16:29:47 -!- wtface has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:23 03galehar * r117769693789 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Fix needles of frenzy not turning monsters neutral. 17:03:30 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:04 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:15 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:11 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:16 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 17:10:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:11 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:10:27 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:04 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:26 -!- blabber_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:22 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:54 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:01 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:29 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:15 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:27 -!- upsy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:20 -!- Red_Bucket has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:33 If linley made dungeon crawl again today, the entire game would just be one huge ass ziggeraut. 17:42:54 what 17:42:57 -!- iasov_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:07 [citation needed] 17:43:29 He doesn't go the extremely complicated route anymore, just the extremely hard route. 17:44:07