00:00:27 <Cheibriados> Ring of the Octopus King (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5187) by Eronarn
00:00:48 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3111-g59fde6b (32)
00:01:55 <Eronarn> 00:59 < eeviac> ??your equipment suddenly seems to weigh more
00:01:56 <Eronarn> 00:59 < Henzell> I don't have a page labeled your_equipment_suddenly_seems_to_weigh_more in my learndb.
00:01:59 <Eronarn> can we remove these stupid messages yet
00:02:11 <Eronarn> they're not flavorful, they just punish new players
00:02:20 <evilmike> I think they were removed in trunk
00:02:27 <evilmike> I could be wrong though.
00:02:34 <evilmike> I bunch of those fake spells were dealt with though.
00:03:01 <evilmike> the worst imo was "You feel drained.", which could even be experienced by mummies
00:03:16 <Eronarn> gastronok still uses some with his slugform thing. it should either have a real chance of doing something, or be removed
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00:07:48 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3111-g59fde6b
00:07:56 <Jevouse> ugh
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00:08:10 <Jevouse> sage card can study skills that can't be trained
00:08:14 <Jevouse> so what happens to the xp??
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00:08:47 <evilmike> is it actually training an untrainable skill?
00:08:56 <evilmike> eg armour on a felid
00:09:21 <elliptic> pretty sure that sage putting xp into ice magic with no ice spells or whatever is intended behavior
00:09:47 <evilmike> oh, if it's ice magic then theres no issue. Everyone can train ice magic
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01:00:32 <greensnark> evilmike: dk_vehumet_trees is causing problems because the callback is defined in the map itself, not at the global level
01:00:47 <greensnark> If you move the callback up to the global level the problem should go away
01:00:56 <evilmike> greensnark: yeah I changed that part already, actually. Thanks though
01:01:03 <greensnark> Oh, cool
01:01:07 <evilmike> The vault has other problems though, I'm hoping dk will fix that
01:02:36 <evilmike> by "other problems" i just mean a minor thing, nothing that crashes
01:05:14 <evilmike> (it's in mantis 5176)
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03:35:23 <Jevouse> elliptic: err...i can't even train ice magic,i have 0 spells
03:36:31 <Textmode> meep?
03:39:50 <evilmike> Jevouse: sage cards can skip that restriction
03:40:06 <Jevouse> evilmike: intended behaviour?
03:40:06 <evilmike> it's quite often a bad card, can occasionally be helpful
03:40:11 <Jevouse> kk
03:40:31 <evilmike> the card basically forces you to train what comes up. Often in a very unideal way
03:41:22 <Jevouse> so it will train an untrainable skill?
03:41:39 <Jevouse> or like, forcetrain?
03:42:15 <Jevouse> i mean, the skill will still level?
03:42:19 <evilmike> if by untrainable skill you mean something like armour on a felid, i dont believe that is ever possible
03:42:32 <evilmike> if you mean something like ice magic with no spells memorized, you're going to gain xp towards it, as far as I know
03:43:19 <Jevouse> ok
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04:14:51 <CIA-112> 03evilmike * re764b4680ec4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/vehumet_trees.des: A fix to dk_vehumet_trees.
04:17:23 <evilmike> i should have pushed that about six hours ago, sorry
04:19:22 <Jevouse> lol
04:20:18 <evilmike> only affects a small number of people anyway
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04:51:07 <Nexos> I do a "Ctrl-F ." on Elf:5 and get a "g - [Elf:5] a glowing elven long sword (+23)" line. E(x)amining it gives "glowing...sword, scimitar, longbow, 20 arrows, leather armour". Is that normal (the 23 thing)?
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04:55:20 <kilobyte> evilmike: just CDO and Windows packages on CDO, right?
04:55:21 <Henzell> kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
04:56:15 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3112-ge764b46 (32)
04:56:17 <evilmike> well i disabled the vault as soon as i figured out it was bad, then cdo updated. once cao updates no one will get it there either.
04:56:41 <evilmike> that last commit fixes it for anyone who did get the vault, unfortunately it's still on cao and broken
04:56:48 <kilobyte> triggered the build already
04:56:59 <kilobyte> (no CAO, no access there)
04:58:30 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3112-ge764b46
04:58:57 <evilmike> if cao still updates daily I think it should trigger soon
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05:35:32 <Cheibriados> Ctrl-O lists exclusions in portal vaults you've left (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5188) by jpeg
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08:58:35 <Cheibriados> Highlight constriction messages (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5189) by jpeg
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09:29:53 <Huene`> Wielding cursed armor doesn't appear to activate the curse, not sure if this is intentional or not, additionally, it doesn't currently seem to be possible to un-wield things with w- currently, both of these are on master
09:30:19 <Jevouse> i've done w- before
09:30:33 <Jevouse> works for me
09:30:39 <Huene`> I have too on CDO, however the new fancy interface on master doesn't seem to work
09:30:48 <Huene`> in webtiles
09:30:59 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3112-ge764b46 (32)
09:31:23 <Huene`> hmm ok it might just be something wierd with my keyboard then
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09:31:35 <Huene`> I'll check  with others and see if they have the problem
09:33:40 <edlothiol> Huene`: it's a webtiles-specific bug
09:33:58 <Huene`> ok it's a known issue then?
09:33:58 <Jevouse> edlothiol: did u read the proposal
09:35:12 <edlothiol> Huene`: well it's known now ;) I didn't know about it before, but it's kind of obvious what the problem is -- I'll fix it soon
09:36:07 <edlothiol> Jevouse: yes -- by "replace z menu" you don't mean that the alt key combinations should completely replace it, do you?
09:36:26 <Jevouse> sure, why not?
09:37:13 <Jevouse> or erm...maybe only for tiles
09:37:24 <Jevouse> not sure if z menu is only way to check spell desc
09:37:24 <Huene`> alrighty, also cursed armor wielded not triggering the curse if the item is not known to be cursed or not, is that a bug or working as intended
09:38:18 <edlothiol> Huene`: no idea about that
09:38:28 <elliptic> huene`: it is intended that curses have no effect when wielding a non-weapon
09:38:44 <Huene`> ok just checking
09:39:11 <edlothiol> oh yeah, I missed the wielding part
09:39:11 <Eronarn> ...we renamed the item to fire dragon hide without renaming the monster?
09:39:12 <Eronarn> what.
09:39:25 <elliptic> eronarn: sure, it seems okay
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09:52:23 <CIA-112> 03edlothiol * r8995255f24de 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/menu.js: Fix w- not working in webtiles.
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09:59:31 <Cheibriados> "Comes into view" not printed when climbing stairs. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5190) by blackcustard
10:02:19 <CIA-112> 03dolorous * r008147118df7 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Fix wording.
10:08:10 <CIA-112> 03dolorous * r00bdefa15ef8 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Mention the Tengu MP increase in the changelog.
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10:34:08 <Ragdoll> what is the COLOUR of stone walls?
10:34:18 <Ragdoll> it isnt grey/gray it seems
10:36:17 <monqy> lightgrey?
10:37:58 <Ragdoll> works, perfect
10:38:52 <Huene`> is mouse control ala the client, planned for webtiles?
10:39:02 <Jevouse> yes
10:39:10 <Huene`> excellent
10:39:12 <Huene`> ty
10:39:47 <Ragdoll> how do you put a trap and a item on the same tile?
10:40:17 <MarvinPA> use KFEAT and KITEM probably?
10:40:17 <Henzell> MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
10:40:47 <Ragdoll> lets see
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12:40:43 <alefury> hey, back from vacation
12:40:46 <alefury> any crawl news?
12:40:56 <MarvinPA> elliptic: have you seen n78291's new DS mutation patch?
12:41:45 <elliptic> I glanced at the description but not at the code
12:41:52 <MarvinPA> ah ok
12:42:10 <MarvinPA> i like the idea, wasn't certain if it'd be strong enough as a t3 mut or not
12:43:02 <MarvinPA> it gives up to +3 slaying and +1 enhancer per mut level
12:43:23 <chrisoelmueller> the name needs a patch :P
12:43:31 <elliptic> how injured do you have to be for it?
12:43:41 <MarvinPA> i don't remember exactly, i'll have a look
12:44:25 <elliptic> I liked the sound of the idea also, but I have no idea about balance
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12:45:02 <Jevouse> elliptic: how do you fancy the idea of spell slot macros ...alt-1 as spell slot a, etc.
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12:45:19 <elliptic> can't you set that up yourself if you want it
12:45:26 <elliptic> I don't really understand what you are suggesting
12:45:30 <Jevouse> well as default
12:45:49 <elliptic> why would we have really specialized default macros like that
12:46:12 <elliptic> which keys people want to use for such macros varies a lot
12:46:18 <chrisoelmueller> i'd never press two keys simultaneously in crawl by the way
12:46:32 <chrisoelmueller> i do use spell_slot a lot though
12:47:05 <elliptic> some people like function keys, some people use number keys, you are the first person I've heard suggesting alt+number...
12:47:10 <MarvinPA> so at mutlevel 1 the threshold is 50% hp, at mutlevel two the thresholds are 2/3 and 1/3, at mutlevel three they're 3/4, 1/2, 1/4
12:47:39 <elliptic> marvinpa: I feel like it should be smooth so that there aren't spoily thresholds
12:48:02 <MarvinPA> hm, possibly
12:48:03 <Eronarn> the way tome does alt+number is nice but it wouldn't work in console
12:48:11 <Jevouse> well, newbies don't like to screw around with macro settings if they can help it
12:48:20 <MarvinPA> although would be hard to do that with enhancers, wouldn't it?
12:48:27 <Jevouse> so having a default setting simplifies spellcasting a lot
12:48:58 <elliptic> MarvinPA: I don't really see why
12:49:33 <elliptic> anyway I'm really not sure how strong that mutation would be
12:49:48 <MarvinPA> yeah, me neither
12:50:12 <alefury> the 1/4 threshold is probably pretty useless, at that point you should be thinking about escape
12:50:51 <elliptic> the enhancers sound stronger than the slaying
12:50:54 <alefury> 2 enhancers is alrady pretty helpful, though, and 1/2 HP tends to happen
12:51:00 <Eronarn> what if it gave a spell boost like wizardry
12:51:04 <Eronarn> rather than enhancer levels
12:51:08 <Eronarn> er, not wizardry. brilliance
12:51:39 <alefury> wizardry would help with escape, not sure if thats a good idea
12:51:56 <elliptic> what about just giving boosts to more visible things
12:52:12 <alefury> stats?
12:52:28 <elliptic> slaying and wizardry and such are pretty much invisible... could boost stats and/or AC/EV/SH
12:52:30 <Eronarn> elliptic: maybe we should just make the 'magical ability' stat visbile :P
12:52:45 <MarvinPA> i like boosting power a lot better than boosting success
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12:53:26 <MarvinPA> and you have the surge of power messages for enhancers at least
12:54:43 <Eronarn> oops, i was thinking of this
12:54:48 <Eronarn> not the wizardry boost from brilliance
12:54:49 <Eronarn> // Brilliance boosts spell power a bit (equivalent to three
12:54:50 <Eronarn> // spell school levels).
12:54:50 <Eronarn> if (!fail_rate_check && you.duration[DUR_BRILLIANCE])
12:54:50 <Eronarn> power += 600;
12:55:32 <elliptic> IMO a multiplicative boost makes more sense given how stepped down spell power is
12:55:55 <Eronarn> power *= 10 + 5 * player_mutation_level(MUT_WILD_MAGIC);
12:55:58 <Eronarn> huh
12:56:04 <Eronarn> that's a really, really tiny bonus if the brilliance comment is right
12:56:18 <elliptic> eronarn: what is?
12:56:24 <MarvinPA> *=
12:56:25 <MarvinPA> not +=
12:56:29 <Eronarn> oh, oops
12:57:14 <MarvinPA> it's roughly equivalent to a couple of enhancers, depending on mutlevel (and stacks with enhancers)
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13:57:30 <Jevouse> errm
13:57:37 <Jevouse> are bears supposed to show up as elephants in tiles??
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15:59:16 <Huene`> does webtiles make active use of the executable? like can I recompile while the server is running?
16:00:55 <chrisoelmueller> i just locally picked up two unID'd books, after reading one the other appeared identified in the menu as well. 0.10-a0-2963-gefb6b1f
16:01:05 <chrisoelmueller> known/fixed in more recent version?
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16:08:42 <kilobyte> Huene`: if you use Napkin's/greensnark fancy DGL scripts, they use versioned directories so multiple versions can be installed parallel.  Without, it's _almost_ completely safe too.
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16:09:38 <kilobyte> "almost" because "make install" takes a fraction of second; in all but few rare cases mixing files from different versions is ok
16:10:42 <kilobyte> remember that on POSIX systems, replacing an open file means the old games use the old versions even if it's no longer accessible from the filesystem
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16:55:00 <edlothiol> Huene`: additionally to what kilobyte said -- if you don't have a game running, just the server, recompiling is completely safe
16:57:47 <kilobyte> unsafe cases: a vault gives, say, "ring of the Octopus King", and the .des file is copied in before the executable.  The game will fail complaining of an illegal item.
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17:21:18 <ZChris13> Yo I found a bug
17:21:49 <ZChris13> kilobyte: It shouldn't take 10 seconds
17:22:18 <ZChris13> Dragon form as a black drac suppresses rElec racial mutation
17:22:24 <ZChris13> and gives me rPois
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17:27:01 <kilobyte> heh right, an interesting special case
17:27:11 <ZChris13> Why does it give me rPois?
17:27:12 <kilobyte> since you're turned into a storm dragon
17:27:20 <kilobyte> shouldn't
17:27:26 <ZChris13> Yeah it makes me a blue D
17:27:30 <ZChris13> which is nice flavor
17:31:03 <ZChris13> Is there a reason green draconian breath weapon stays as meph when you do dragon form?
17:34:34 <kilobyte> Eronarn: the somehow, the ring the you made the has the way too many the thes in the its the name
17:35:32 <kilobyte> can't think of an obvious solution though :(
17:36:02 <kilobyte> especially since it looks weird if you have eight, yet every one has a definite article
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17:43:46 <Eronarn> kilobyte: well, could make it 'Ring of the Octopus King' - i just followed the pattern of the other rings
17:43:50 <Eronarn> but it doesn't have to
17:44:17 <Eronarn> or 'a ring of the Octopus King'
17:44:20 <Eronarn> since there's more than one
17:46:42 <kilobyte> yeah but the current code doesn't allow messing with the article easily :(
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17:51:16 <ZChris13> kilobyte: Black dracs in general are kinda funny
17:51:23 <Eronarn> huh, is there always a 'the' in front of artifacts?
17:51:31 <Eronarn> unrands, anyways
17:51:33 <ZChris13> or rather: ##crawl-dev
17:51:37 <Eronarn> could've sworn some didn't have one
17:51:45 <ZChris13> black drac fly keeps working if you change forms
17:51:59 <ZChris13> I'm in spider form but still flying
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18:04:49 <kilobyte> Eronarn: uh oh, I pushed _then_ got the idea to check tiles
18:05:04 <kilobyte> of course, they don't build since the tile for your ring is missing
18:07:09 <kilobyte> WTF is with images.google.com?  It shows up the results for a second, then refreshes to Google's main page.
18:07:40 <Wensley> try google.com/images
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18:10:29 <kilobyte> tried noscript first, helps
18:12:14 <kilobyte> Wensley: yay, without noscript but google.com/images, it's ok too
18:14:05 <kilobyte> Eronarn: by "coral ring", do you mean a metal ring with a coral "gem" like all the images on Google, or a drilled (or maybe twisted) piece of coral?
18:15:04 <kilobyte> Eronarn: decide quickly since I need to either make a tile or revert the ring before some tile person comes shouting :p
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18:25:37 <kilobyte> Eronarn: ?
18:32:08 <Eronarn> kilobyte: sorry, was watching a movie
18:32:18 <Eronarn> kilobyte: i was envisioning a piece of coral grown into a ring shape
18:32:36 <Eronarn> but it's pretty immaterial - the current description for the octo trident, 'mangy', is just awful
18:32:44 <Eronarn> could find something better that fits both
18:33:08 <Eronarn> sorry about the tiles thing, i forgot completely to list that it needs one
18:33:26 <Eronarn> (also, if you can figure out how to get spaces to show up properly in the description, it'd be nice to get the poem spaced properly)
18:34:36 <kilobyte> yeah, this is what I envisioned too
18:34:52 <kilobyte> you don't do metalworking underwater
18:35:49 <Eronarn> being able to go to the surface to trade for metal goods is certainly evolutionarily advantageous :)
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18:45:16 <Eronarn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horror_vacui surely we can use this for due's horrors somehow
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19:19:13 <ZChris13> hello? What about the black draconian bugs I found?
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19:28:57 <bmh> Is there a description of crawl's timing model somewhere? I'm trying to grok how it deals with the case: @.K and ensuring that no one gets a free hit if the other steps into the unoccupied square
19:31:09 <kilobyte> what do you mean by "free hit"?
19:32:51 <bmh> kilobyte: If you step into the square, the Kobold shouldn't get to hit you before you get a chance to hit it, and vice versa.
19:33:52 <kilobyte> that's currently the case
19:34:01 <ZChris13> One gets a free hit
19:34:30 <kilobyte> kind of hard to do this right in a system with discrete movement
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19:34:31 <bmh> oh.
19:35:59 <Wensley> bmh: yes, when you are one away from an enemy, you must always rest for one turn to give yourself the combat advantage
19:36:16 <kilobyte> ZChris13: I looked at resistances in dragon form, it's not trivial fix.  Would you care to report this?
19:36:26 <bmh> Wensley: then shouldn't the monster wait for you to advance? :)
19:36:49 <ZChris13> Okay
19:36:56 <Wensley> bmh: yes :) but how else would you resolve it? I've played roguelikes that always allowed the player to attack first, it didn't seem that much better
19:36:58 <ZChris13> 'sure
19:37:01 <ZChris13> thank you
19:37:08 <kilobyte> you'll die of hunger, the monster won't :p
19:37:10 <ZChris13> What cases would it be messed up?
19:38:06 <kilobyte> ZChris13: rF, rC and rAcid seem to work; every one is kludged a different way
19:38:11 <bmh> Wensley: simultaneous action resolution with reverse order scheduling? (slowest goes first)
19:38:37 <bmh> I suspect it would have baffling consequences.
19:39:43 <kilobyte> bmh: it goes really hairy if there are more than two concurrent actions
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19:41:13 <kilobyte> for example, anything that has movement not cost the full time results in you getting a free turn for every observer other than the one who approaches
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19:44:57 <kilobyte> (wimpying off, zzz)
19:45:47 <bmh> good time to talk about time ;)
19:45:51 <ZChris13> Is it a major or minor bug?
19:48:30 <Cheibriados> Dragon form Resistances are broken (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5191) by ZChris13
19:52:10 <bmh> Is Chei the new Ash?
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19:56:21 <HangedMan> ash is the new chei
19:56:36 <Wensley> no
19:57:02 <Wensley> neither of those are correct :P
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