00:06:17 <|amethyst> So, for Sage vs manuals in the @ and % screens: I was thinking 'studying Foo' for manuals and 'studious about Foo' for Sage, to match the messages when you gain the status 00:06:35 <|amethyst> does this sound reasonable? it's a change for Sage, which was previously 'studying Foo' 00:07:19 <|amethyst> Also, besides adding '(studied)' (I think that's better than '{active}'), I'm giving them the equipped prefix and tile flag 00:07:27 researching Foo for Sage? 00:07:38 studious about sounds weird 00:08:11 <|amethyst> hm 00:08:43 |amethyst: I think the two words are too similar... "studying foo" is good for manuals 00:08:58 for sage, I dont know. You're not really studying it so much as having the knowledge forced into your brain, imo 00:09:04 <|amethyst> what about the message when you gain Sage? 00:09:22 trying to think of something right now. A shame "saging" isn't a verb :P 00:09:24 inculcating Foo? 00:09:53 <|amethyst> that's not right... one inculcates something into someone else 00:09:59 <|amethyst> you're being inculcated 00:10:17 <|amethyst> into 00:10:49 "you are a sage in [foo]"? 00:11:14 that's also weird but it's nice if the description actually mentions that it's the sage effect 00:11:35 I guess studious isn't too bad though 00:11:54 Being inculcated in Foo? 00:12:06 <|amethyst> that's too long for the @ screen I think 00:12:24 inculcating in Foo? 00:12:26 under the effect of sage? 00:12:41 just sage {skill} 00:13:05 <|amethyst> I guess sage Foo would be acceptible for the @ screen 00:13:15 <|amethyst> err, % I mean 00:13:24 <|amethyst> for @, maybe "You are sagacious about Foo" 00:13:32 aha, that could work 00:13:51 You could just say you were under the effects of the sage card 00:14:22 it's better to mention the skill being saged 00:14:34 {skill} 00:14:40 {fire magic} 00:14:42 {axes} 00:14:59 sagacious kind of implies you already know the stuff though 00:15:04 <|amethyst> yeah 00:15:51 how about just 00:15:56 You are being taught about Foo? 00:16:24 <|amethyst> that's nice 00:16:38 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:48 <|amethyst> I'd like to mention the word "sage", but not in a heavy-handed way 00:16:54 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:04 or you could change the sage card 00:17:08 to a different name 00:17:49 like 00:17:51 Scholar card 00:17:52 and then 00:17:54 that's the worst solution. the idea is to make things clearer.. renaming an item always causes a bit of confusion 00:17:57 You are being schooled in Foo 00:18:14 You feel scholarly in Foo would be that one 00:18:40 <|amethyst> I'm with mikee, I'd rather not rename the card 00:18:41 nah, its not you doing the research 00:19:20 I'm not mikee! 00:19:25 <|amethyst> eep 00:19:27 <|amethyst> sorry :) 00:19:30 although he is probably anti-renaming too 00:19:31 <|amethyst> too many mikes 00:19:36 +1 to not removing, "Sage" is flavourful in a way "Scholar" is not 00:19:49 <|amethyst> evilmike: you have permission to call me Mu sometime when I least expect it 00:19:58 and mikee is evil too :p 00:20:14 how about 00:20:29 you are increasingly sagacious about foo 00:20:35 speaking of evilness: evilmike: what would you say about that reverse ZotDef vault idea? 00:20:47 oh, sorry I didn't reply to it. I think it's a fun idea 00:20:50 or 00:20:54 I assume it would be a zot:1-4 vault 00:20:56 Your sagacity in Foo increases 00:20:59 just not sure how to reward the player 00:21:10 simple: put the downstairs in it :P 00:21:32 evilmike: ooh... I was thinking of a regular deep D vault, but Zot:1-4 is so much better 00:21:41 all three? :p 00:21:54 |amethyst? what do you think 00:21:57 Chance of all three, decent chance of two, lowish chance of one 00:23:04 a vault with three oklobs is already nasty... but then, I just beaten one in Lair so Zot can be manageable 00:23:06 <|amethyst> If I had to choose, I'd rather the @ screen and the on-gain message mention the effect (e.g. "studious" or "being taught") than the card name 00:23:17 on the other hand, I had servitors :p 00:23:24 kilobyte: three oklobs??? try the acid trip vault... 00:23:36 <|amethyst> as you pointed out, "sagacious" implies you already know the topic thoroughly 00:23:58 so, "you are becoming sagacious" 00:23:58 so being able to beat a Lair obstacle with something good enough for Vault:8 doesn't say much 00:23:58 true 00:24:09 evilmike: he said that was too long 00:24:13 oh right 00:24:18 "sagely"? 00:24:47 that works. Can also omit the "you are", I guess 00:24:56 <|amethyst> that's not even an adjective :) 00:25:23 hehe 00:25:36 you can just claim it is, that's the nice thing about english 00:25:45 well, no reason not to invent nice words 00:25:53 actually i think sagely is a adjective 00:25:54 like 00:25:58 he sagely stroked his beard 00:26:05 <|amethyst> Jevouse: that's an adverb 00:26:12 oh whoops 00:26:12 English has a long history of coining words for the situation 00:26:23 <|amethyst> you are sagifying Foo 00:26:32 sagifying ...lol 00:26:34 sagification is occurlating 00:26:36 <|amethyst> Foo is ensaging into you brain 00:26:45 Foo sages your brain 00:27:03 yes i'll siege your brain by sage means! 00:27:18 eh wait sage is an adjective in that 00:27:26 <|amethyst> of course, I'd be inclined to read that as "Foo savages your brain" 00:27:42 <3 00:29:06 <|amethyst> I'm going to commit it with the "studious about Foo" message 00:29:15 <|amethyst> something good will come along, I'm sure 00:29:25 instructed in Foo? 00:30:05 <|amethyst> I think I will use "sage Foo" as the short_text (% screen) though 00:30:14 <|amethyst> since those don't need to be grammatical 00:30:31 <|amethyst> hm 00:30:49 <|amethyst> actually, I'll just do "You are being taught Foo." for the long_text 00:30:54 <|amethyst> it can be changed if necessary 00:31:53 |amethyst: maybe put the skill in curly braces 00:32:00 {fire magic} 00:32:12 <|amethyst> for which? 00:32:37 for the short one 00:34:29 <|amethyst> does anything else use that? 00:35:22 <|amethyst> I guess "sage Axes" is kind of incongruous, too 00:36:02 sage {axes} 00:36:10 it makes sense to see that on the short screen 00:36:43 yeah, i agree with ZChris13 00:36:49 that or Sage: Axes 00:37:05 <|amethyst> axes sage 00:37:11 <|amethyst> necromancy sage 00:37:22 -!- ktgrey has quit [] 00:37:52 well uh...an axes sage sounds like he's spent his life making axes and knows all about them 00:38:16 rather than being a skilled axewielder 00:39:36 so i'd rather that it be clear that its the sage card 00:41:36 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: SO MANY THINGS HOW DO I HOLD ALL THESE THINGS] 00:48:54 03|amethyst * r5ee2d78f0c0e 10/crawl-ref/source/skill_menu.cc: Show manual bonuses with crosstraining. 00:48:54 03|amethyst * r818cbaf56165 10/crawl-ref/source/ (output.cc player.cc status.cc status.h): Display manual skill in the @ and % screens. 00:48:55 03|amethyst * r9b7a088bb276 10/crawl-ref/source/ (describe.cc itemname.cc items.cc items.h tilereg-inv.cc): Display (studied) for active manuals, treat as equipped. 00:49:05 03|amethyst * ra24b71f6ef33 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/serial/window.des: Fix an unreachable corridor in co_window_broadway_c. 00:50:35 <|amethyst> I kept the messages as I had them at first ("studying" and "studious about"). It's suboptimal, but it matches the messages; something clearly superior will come along. 00:54:13 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:13 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:01 <|amethyst> And that's probably all from me for a while... my committee wants a dissertation draft in about six weeks 00:58:02 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:58:24 -!- valrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:07:26 |amethyst: :( Bastards :p 01:08:57 -!- JamezQ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:24 nooo 01:09:37 who is gonna explain all the shiny code now 01:12:40 yeah, spammiest committer in the past few weeks 01:13:08 who's the second spammiest? 01:13:11 lessee... 01:13:24 eh 01:13:41 there's no crawl-changelog in the compiled version? 01:15:54 "git shortlog -ns start^..end" 01:16:22 ah thanks 01:17:05 since we tend to bring a lot of commits made a long time ago, it's best to find the first commit after a date as the boundary 01:17:18 date goes last? 01:17:27 what's the date format 01:18:13 January starts with 780e22fe, December with 570cf5fd 01:18:15 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:58 whoops crashed git 01:18:59 heh 01:19:47 so that 01:20:00 git shortlog -ns start^570cf5fd end? 01:20:31 570cf5fd^..master 01:20:51 but that's unfair, as (AFAIK) |amethyst didn't have commit rights through all of December 01:21:08 i'm finding the second guy 01:21:28 my numbers are a bit inflated by committing tiles and so on 01:21:48 and different people have a different view on fine-vs-monolithic commits too 01:22:03 it's a poor metric 01:22:15 fine 01:22:22 let's use another metric 01:22:35 its "who's here answering my questions instead of |amethyst" metric 01:22:38 you're it! 01:22:41 -!- bmh has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:55 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:14 uhm... you haven't been active for more than literally a few days ago, other guys merely happen to be busy right now 01:24:59 well 01:25:04 the metric will change 01:25:07 i guess 01:25:33 however, so far the candidates are you and...evilmike 01:26:09 I can answer questions about vaults but for most other stuff you're better off asking other people 01:26:22 and evilmike just DQ'ed himself 01:26:58 you can ask me whatever you want, but I'll sometimes answer with "I don't know, sorry." 01:27:29 evilmile: how would you feel about a xom vault with morphing God altars 01:27:55 err evilmike 01:28:41 (a) there are already a ton of xom altar vaults, and (b) I highly doubt that's possible just with lua 01:28:45 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3072-ga24b71f (32) 01:29:55 also, I dont think morphing god altars would be good gameplay. Maybe altar mimics, but those dont work 01:33:18 how much work is required to make altar mimics? 01:34:42 I'd guess not much. They're just disabled, like other not-allowed mimics (eg wall mimics) 01:34:47 you can place them in wizard mode 01:37:02 ah 01:37:19 xom altar vault full of xom mimics! 01:39:55 semi-random xom altar vault. 75% of the time it's full of xom mimics. 25% of the time it's just full of xom altars. 01:43:33 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3072-ga24b71f 02:15:17 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:38 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:43 -!- yogaFLAME_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:07:52 -!- the_glow1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:02 -!- the_glow1 has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:29 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:35 -!- Nexos has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:41 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:21 -!- yogaFLAME_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:42:26 -!- wtface has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 03:49:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 04:01:56 -!- Nexos has left ##crawl-dev 04:08:39 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:55:00 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:38 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:06:24 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09:40 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:50 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:48 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:52 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:06 menv[current_mons->mindex()] 05:38:08 beh :p 05:47:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:49:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:49:21 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 06:03:01 -!- JamezQ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:13:04 03edlothiol * r304935764147 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/README: Add a bit of documentation for the webtiles server. 06:13:28 Huene[istaken]: as you can see, I've just added a small readme for the webtiles server. if you have any specific questions, ask away 06:21:56 killed from afar by adjacent monster (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5172) by rafa 06:22:54 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:24:04 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:39 hi 06:25:11 currently ta is blocked by trees and translucent walls 06:26:07 shouldnt it be possible to use ta in those cases? 06:45:31 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 06:48:55 are jpeg and dpeg related? 06:57:28 brother and sister 06:57:53 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:08 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:59 new Yredelemnul altar vault (with LUA stuff) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5174) by dk 07:32:59 Debug mode crash when using stairs next to constrictor (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5173) by evilmike 07:43:08 New trap vault (rats in the wall) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5175) by dk 07:47:54 "hello, thank you for calling crawl development support line, my name peggy" 07:58:04 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:12 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:22 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:32 -!- blueDave has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:28:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:53:18 03kilobyte * r834bc442d6f4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (arena.cc dungeon.cc dungeon.h l_dgnmon.cc wiz-mon.cc): Make dgn_place_monster() return monster* 08:53:18 03kilobyte * r2b2b927f740c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Make place_monster() return monster* 08:53:19 03kilobyte * r2db87d6d5c94 10/crawl-ref/source/ (34 files): Make high-level monster creation return monster* 08:53:29 03kilobyte * rb8daaf465eba 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files): Some more mindexicide. 08:53:29 03kilobyte * r2f2ec3a96347 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-transit.cc tags.cc): Fix two cases of mid_cache out of sync. 08:57:06 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 08:58:21 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:36 -!- valrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:50 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:45 hm 09:21:18 dgn_place_map, dgn_safe_place_map, _build_primary_vault, _build_secondary_vault, _build_vault_impl.. why are there so many 09:23:11 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3078-g2f2ec3a (32) 09:27:13 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:54 -!- ixtli_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:28 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:37 message check 09:37:25 Huene[istaken]: did you see what I wrote earlier? I couldn't message you because of the [] 09:38:14 !tell edlothiol thank you very much 09:38:14 Huene[istaken]: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 09:39:59 oops you're there 09:40:00 Huene[istaken]: if anything is unclear, let me know 09:40:03 yeah ;) 09:40:37 ok will do I might nothave time to get it done right now since I have to leave for work shortly, but I'll look thinks over 09:40:44 ok 09:43:04 looks like I'm wanting to use crawl-ref not crawl correct? 09:43:15 nevermind 09:44:12 sorry git isn't my strong suit, that said I've pushed through it a few times before, but I'll work that part out I don't expect you to help with that :D 09:44:54 as a bit of a query, where will this server be situated? 09:46:05 Pittsburgh, Pa crawl.mcbadwolf.com, though it's generally not intended to be public, more to reduce the lag I see on CDO 09:46:30 you can ask about git too, I just can't guarantee I can help ;) 09:46:35 :D 09:47:28 hmm that was crawl-ref/README.txt correct? I'm not seeing any snippits relating to webtiles, but I may be simply missing it 09:47:45 ah no, it's crawl-ref/source/webserver/README 09:47:56 ahh well that would explain it 09:47:57 ty 09:49:04 oh wow this is rediculously easy 09:51:14 I do have a question though, this seems to be running its own webserver, is it rather involved to utilize an existing apache2 installation? 09:51:27 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 09:52:00 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:35 hmm... I have to admit I don't really know -- Napkin (who runs CDO) might be able to help with that, but I think he's currently on vacation 09:54:54 ok good to know 09:55:53 although, crawl.develz.org and tiles.crawl.develz.org are on different IPs, so he probably doesn't have that problem 09:55:53 Napkin was around yesterday 09:56:11 it's not that, I would prefer not to use a custom port 09:56:16 they're ugly :D 09:56:26 I'll just have a redirect for now though 09:58:31 -!- SamB_XP_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:56 -!- SamB_XP_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:18 vehumet trees vault scriptet (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5176) by dk 10:00:29 03dolorous * rd1f35e1b6538 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Make ballistomycetes have the same god as the spores that made them. 10:00:40 03dolorous * rffe01e32ce4e 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Add formatting fix. 10:00:43 Huene[istaken]: you might be able to do it by having apache act as a proxy, passing connections on to the webtiles server 10:01:25 I probably missed something silly, but using the provided webserver I'm getting ImportError: No module named websocket, I have python already and just installed python-tornado so I should have met the deps mentioned 10:02:06 edlothiol: how do i generate crawl-changelog.txt from git? 10:03:52 Jevouse: no idea, there's probably a script somewhere, but I don't know where 10:04:29 Huene[istaken]: huh... did it give a file and line number? 10:04:48 onemoment 10:05:36 Huene[istaken]: what version of tornado did you install? 10:05:36 http://pastebin.com/qJ1ygkWU 10:05:37 and whatever the latest one is in ubuntu's repos one sec let me check 10:06:03 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:39 ahh yep that might be it 1.0.1-1 10:06:45 alright well I'll have to look into that after work 10:07:04 yeah, that would be way too old 10:07:46 getting the new version isn't hard -- just download the source, put it somewhere and start the server with PYTHONPATH=(path to tornado) 10:15:07 03edlothiol * r9682e57837bc 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/README: Add a link to python-tornado. 10:15:46 lol 10:15:48 it was really very simple 10:15:55 git log > crawl-changelog.txt 10:16:01 ok servers running just need to fix the user stuff, but I can't do it now, will work on that when I get home :D thanks a ton edlothiol 10:16:14 except that doesn't format 10:16:15 bah 10:16:16 great :) 10:42:23 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 10:45:05 Jevouse: why do you want to generate changelog.txt anyway? 10:45:16 so that i can look at the changes 10:45:41 way, way, WAAAAY too spammy 10:45:43 its not documented fully anywhere else 10:46:07 why not directly use git log, or use the rss feed from gitorious, or use the commit mailing list? 10:47:08 RSS feed and commit mailing list sound really spammy 10:47:14 i just might use git log 10:47:16 meh 10:53:01 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:00 * SamB_XP_ wonders why dolorous always says "add formatting fix" like that, rather than "fix formatting" 10:58:22 * Jevouse thinks dolorous comes from a declensionist country 10:59:14 at some former repo i had to work with, all commits would be rejected if they didn't start with 'add' or 'fix' 10:59:28 took me months to train off this crap again afterwards 10:59:37 * Jevouse notes that fix formatting starts with fix 11:00:08 yeah, just wanted to point out that people do the weirdest things, so it might have been a similar issue there 11:00:31 (e.g. when you fix something you also need to provide an issue number else it still is invalid) 11:00:42 * Jevouse notes that germany is notorious for such language 11:01:21 does removing things count as fixing them, in that system? 11:01:53 presumably you are removing a bug 11:06:51 MarvinPA: you'd have to write a ticket 'remove x' and fix that with the commit 11:08:55 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:29 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:58 kilobyte: did you know that GCC writes the .d files before it writes the .o files? 11:18:37 SamB: no problem, the .o is still missing 11:18:51 and make will delete it if gcc is interrupted 11:19:28 * SamB guesses he still hasn't unraveled the shell conditionals 11:30:58 kilobyte: something's weird...i went from near starving to very hungry after drinking a potion of brilliance 11:32:03 do all potions give sustenance like water now? 11:32:24 oh, right, this is between the .cc and the .d 11:34:55 * SamB wishes make -p was a mite less verbose about non-targets 11:36:07 * SamB also rather wishes it would sort the output sensibly 11:36:33 I think it's sorted in hash order or something! 11:41:38 SamB: d'ya know? 11:42:12 03SamB * r01f46b9ec12c 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Only skip CFLAGS difference check when ALL goals permit this. 11:42:22 03SamB * r13dfca7f5bc9 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Makefile: Reformat the computation of VALID_DEPS for readability. 11:43:12 Jevouse: I'm just guessing because of (a) how crazy it is and (b) these little two-line hash statistic reports that appear every so often 11:43:48 no no 11:43:52 the answer to my question 11:43:52 lol 11:45:31 kilobyte: hmm ... actually, we're deliberately not telling make that the compilation rule also generates the .d files 11:46:06 aren't we? 11:46:51 Jevouse: that does sound a bit odd, though 11:47:43 kilobyte: oh, btw, that VALID_DEPS computation doesn't handle .m files 11:48:28 Jevouse: all potions always did, including water fountains 11:48:47 eeeinteresting 11:48:47 kilobyte: thanks 11:49:03 SamB: you mean, there's a bug there? That can't be! 11:50:27 yeah right 11:51:00 kilobyte: what do you think of allowing potions and scrolls to float on deep water and allowing the player to reach those items from adjacent squares? 11:51:38 you also know perfectly well that it doesn't check whether *headers* have changed 11:52:08 SamB: ...? 11:52:16 don't you need a header to check whether headers have changed 11:52:28 .d should have all header dependencies 11:52:33 yes, they should 11:53:06 but, if foo.cc includes bar.h, and bar.h includes baz.h ... 11:53:25 then baz.h gets removed, and bar.h is changed to not include it anymore ... 11:53:39 make will get rather annoyed 11:54:17 * SamB supposes that ignoring the .d file would not be enough in that case, though 11:55:24 kilobyte: so, what was the actual problem this VALID_DEPS thing was introduced to solve? 11:55:27 fortunately file removals are rare... but no real idea how to fix that 11:55:43 automake for example will force a full rebuild every time the list of files changes 11:56:21 SamB: if the .cc file or .cflags changed, information in .d is likely to be wrong 11:56:41 I was thinking something along the lines of outlining the problem in a comment, and blaming the whole thing on Make for not providing an appropriate mechanism for handling such things 11:56:55 kilobyte: true 11:57:15 if .cflags changed due to the compiler being different (like, x86_64-linux-gnu-g++ vs i686-w64-mingw32-g++), they're guaranteed to be wrong, in fact 11:57:32 ok, almost guaranteed 11:57:42 why would that be guarenteed 11:57:59 the .o files are certainly stale, though 11:58:40 * SamB wasn't aware that Crawl had any architecture-dependant headers 11:59:05 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:12 remember, we don't include the standard headers in the .d files for crawl proper 12:00:29 do you two gents know how nausea and water interact? 12:01:36 if someone installs headers that break ABI, they can run their *own* "make clean" 12:01:55 SamB: but includes still differ 12:02:05 kilobyte: hmm? 12:02:41 is this a case of "in soviet russia, HEADER includes YOU?" 12:03:27 not that it's a big deal either way 12:03:37 I dunno why I'm arguing 12:04:42 like, libunix.h vs libw32h.h 12:04:46 * kilobyte kicks his ISP. 12:04:55 oh, I missed the "mingw32" part 12:04:58 or, even more likely to change, tiles vs non-tiles 12:05:06 ah, yeah, that'd do it 12:05:15 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:22 any cross-compilation likely, too 12:05:42 but neither of those cases has a whole lot to do with a change in compiler 12:05:56 I prefer 40 second builds for arm cross over 1h 50m natively :p 12:06:46 it's arm-linux-gnueabi-g++ for armel or something else for armhf 12:06:51 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:39 anyway, yeah, using a different port or UI is certainly likely to invalidate the .d files ;-) 12:08:22 that's the reason for VALID_DEPS to be invalidated if .cflags change, even if .d are newer than .cc 12:09:00 anyway, some sort of comment about the purpose of VALID_DEPS would probably be a good idea 12:11:21 I can supply the rant about file removal-related problems, if that's desired 12:15:40 added 12:16:18 03kilobyte * reda3592fd047 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Add a comment what VALID_DEPS are for. 12:20:51 kilobyte: d'ya know 12:22:28 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:36:17 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:07 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:28 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:13:41 kilobyte: Did I understand your commit correctly that you removed -Tele and paired tele from constriction? 13:32:22 "make: *** No rule to make target `abl-show.o', needed by `crawl'. Stop." 13:33:38 dtsund : make clean, try again 13:33:55 No dice. 13:34:37 weird 13:34:41 you are using git? 13:34:47 Yes. 13:35:09 on windows? 13:35:15 Linux. 13:35:37 better mantis it 13:35:51 they've been fiddling with the makefile a lot 13:35:53 I've successfully compiled from source before, but this is a fresh repo pull. 13:40:37 Huh, CDO is hosting Oldcrawl now? 13:42:00 CAO's been having problems 13:44:04 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:29 dpeg: regarding constriction damage: kilobyte wrote in the commit that he would at least half the damage. i think having uniform damage over time is important (the mantis issue) and for player balance to have some kind of heavy xl effect in the formula. 13:45:04 because especially naga is silly in the early game right now 13:46:08 they already had a very good early ability in poison spit 13:46:17 naga: constricting ogres on D:2 4eva 13:47:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:47:08 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:47:27 jeanjacques: nobody ever objected to changing the formula -- it was a start. 13:47:41 dpeg_: Fractional spell success patch will have to wait until I can actually compile from the git repo, I'm afraid. 13:47:52 dpeg_: do you know how nausea and water interact 13:48:28 dtsund: don't worry 13:48:31 Jevouse: no idea 13:48:32 <|amethyst> dtsund: I'm not supposed to be here right now, but touch .cflags will fix it 13:48:49 oh golly its neil 13:49:08 |amethyst: hi! :) 13:49:15 |amethyst: any idea how nausea interacts with water 13:49:24 |amethyst: Where on the doll should I touch .cflags? 13:50:18 <|amethyst> dtsund: just create it as an empty file in the 'source' directory 13:50:24 <|amethyst> dtsund: I think SamB broke it 13:50:33 <|amethyst> maybe it wasn't SamB 13:50:33 |amethyst: Didn't work. 13:50:36 <|amethyst> hmm 13:51:38 <|amethyst> Jevouse: you can still drink potions, including water and potions, when nauseated 13:52:05 |amethyst: still 60 nutrition? 13:52:14 |amethyst: For what it's worth, touching abl-show.o shows that there's no rule to make abyss.o either. 13:55:04 what? 13:55:56 <|amethyst> SamB: if I do a clean pull, plain 'make' doesn't work 13:56:02 <|amethyst> dtsund: does make all work? 13:56:22 I didn't remove any rules :-( 13:56:22 oh 13:56:22 DOH 13:57:09 |amethyst: Nope. 13:57:34 <|amethyst> oh, dtsund is having a different problem from the one I'm having 13:57:49 "make: *** No rule to make target `abl-show.o', needed by `crawl'. Stop." 13:58:33 I think I did break it 13:59:01 <|amethyst> Jevouse: you know, you could try this out in wizard mode... but, yes, the potion code calls lessen_hunger which doesn't care about nausea at all 13:59:04 <|amethyst> anyway, gtg again 13:59:24 <|amethyst> I should stop checking in to see if I have messages; I get dragged back in :) 13:59:29 Makefile appears to be broken. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5177) by dtsund 13:59:36 <|amethyst> s/get dragged/drag myself/ 14:01:42 |amethyst is the man 14:02:00 |amethyst: bye! 14:03:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:50 oh, I broke it in two different ways 14:04:52 wowee 14:07:17 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:07:18 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 14:07:57 dpeg, how's the monster description patch thing going? 14:11:33 -!- agolden has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:27 fixes pushed 14:12:59 (one was rename-o, one was a logic error) 14:13:52 wait, they didn't push 14:14:31 fixing the fixes! 14:14:44 * SamB is actually just rebasing them 14:15:04 and only one of the two errors was part of anything resembling a fix 14:16:05 there, they actually pushed this time 14:16:17 03SamB * r4febd7ca4bc0 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: I also forgot that MAKECMDGOALS might be empty... 14:16:27 03SamB * r762a5dc1a6d2 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Whoops, I broke the VALID_DEPS computation... 14:16:45 i wonder how many fixes need to be fixed 14:16:51 would be interesting to know 14:17:23 most of them 14:18:05 we *try* to do most of it *before* committing 14:19:20 ah 14:19:21 i mean 14:19:25 after commit 14:31:49 HangedMan: you have to send it to someone else. I am about to retire, I just wait for kilobyte to appear. 14:32:07 gasp 14:32:22 I apologise for that, there'll be a number of half-finished (and thus never finished) targets from that. (DG, Vehumet, etc.) 14:32:46 Vehumet's changing? 14:33:01 the "gift spells instead of books" vehumet, I presume 14:33:06 Oh yeah. 14:33:18 gift spells ? 14:33:18 There is an implementable about spell gifting and Thasero claimed to have a patch but despite bugging him from time to time, we never saw it. 14:33:24 woooooo 14:44:57 dpeg_: by "retire", I assume you mean "go to bed"? 14:45:49 does that mean i can actually have my first spells 14:45:52 from vehumet 14:45:54 mmm 14:46:07 SamB: no, leave Crawl 14:46:23 you're going to leave crawl as soon as kilobyte appears? 14:46:44 well, I'll go with or without him but I think he should be around 14:47:08 * SamB didn't realize the internet worked like that 14:47:41 don't leave ussss 14:48:12 how are we gonna make peg jokes then? 14:48:45 please remove me from CREDITS, forum, dev webpage, SF, gitorious etc. 14:48:56 forever 14:49:02 I won't read the mailing lists or the forum; if you want to reach me, you can send me a mail. 14:49:33 HangedMan: I've been around for long enough.... time to, as M Bachman puts it, step aside 14:49:34 you don't get removed from CREDITS just because you leave, silly 14:49:42 unless, of course, you are ASHAMED of us? 14:50:00 I blame the new people 14:50:06 so it's your fault, sam 14:50:17 (You likely get moved to a different *section* of CREDITS, though.) 14:50:21 yes 14:50:30 -!- agolden has left ##crawl-dev 14:50:41 I think opening Crawl to new devs was the best thing I ever did for the project. 14:51:31 that's what you'll be remembered for 14:52:13 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:44 Jevouse: I thought bazaars, or deep dwarves :) 14:52:55 nobody likes to think about DDs 14:53:10 they are *that* race 14:53:17 * SamB thinks DD are cool 14:53:39 dpeg_: wait, why quit so totlly? 14:53:40 dpeg_: The difference is, nobody misses M Bachman. 14:53:46 you're a good person 14:54:16 phyphor: a matter of communication but I simply lack the energy to fight back 14:54:25 (the constriction re-wind, if you want to know) 14:54:38 ah, well, may I suggest a tactical withdrawal rather than surrender? 14:54:39 (they're one of the few races which have no reason to worry about being removed as redundant.) 14:54:46 -!- JamezQ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:46 take a month out, see what happens 14:54:50 phyphor: no, because that was last time. This time it's for reals. 14:54:58 constriction re-wind? 14:55:05 dpeg_: is there some reason? 14:55:11 like, you need to get a life? 14:55:13 oh dpeg got taken down a peg? 14:55:15 dpeg_: ah, well, I for one will be sad to see you go 14:55:21 SamB: I have two children :) 14:55:30 you need to actually give your life some *attention*, then? 14:55:57 dpeg_: children should play crawl instead of those other games 14:56:03 It is no problem if the constriction has to be changed or even rolled back. But doing it in one single commit without prior discussion makes everything so cumbersome. I've been exactly there before (also with kilobyte) and I simply don't have the will to discuss after the fact. 14:56:09 Jevouse: tricky before they can read, though 14:56:33