--- Log opened Thu Dec 29 00:00:23 2011 00:02 ۰۰-- joosa [joosa@heh.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05 <+elliptic> rax: CAO seems to have stopped updating trunk 4-5 days ago. 00:16 ۰۰-- HangedMan [63e6725f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.230.114.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:18 ۰۰-- st_ [~s@cpc10-stre5-2-0-cust69.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36 ۰۰-- st_ [~s@cpc10-stre5-2-0-cust69.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 00:40 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:42 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43 ۰۰-- MarvinPA_ [~MarvinPA@85.211.123.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09 * SamB discovers that what he took for a typographical error in awk(1posix) is actually present in the standard ... and still thinks it may be erroneous. 01:10 <+SamB> (It's a space that I don't like.) 01:11 < Wensley> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_referer#Origin_of_the_term_referer 01:12 <+SamB> it's nothing as bad as that 01:12 <+SamB> I just think I might be becoming a typography nazi 01:17 <+SamB> a lot of what I noticed in this manpage, though, seem likely to have been caused by the use of sed scripts to remove special macros from the POSIX originals... 01:27 < Henzell> omnirizon the Sensei (L27 NaTm) ASSERT(!_player_is_dead()) in 'xom.cc' at line 3845 failed on turn 124656. (D:26) 01:29 <+|amethyst> SamB: what's the problem? 01:29 <+SamB> basically, there are a lot of stray spaces 01:30 ۰۰-- Wensley [~chatzilla@dynamic-acs-72-23-89-126.zoominternet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31 <+|amethyst> I see "a double-quote ( ' )' character" in the HTML version 01:33 <+|amethyst> not sure what the normative version is supposed to be 01:36 <+|amethyst> SamB: ah, also the HTML version has a space after every link; perhaps that was the problem you noticed? 01:36 <+SamB> |amethyst: I don't see that in http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009604499/utilities/awk.html 01:36 <+SamB> that might be a different edition, though 01:37 <+|amethyst> that's the older edition 01:37 <+|amethyst> I'm looking at http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/awk.html 01:37 <+|amethyst> though the mangled quoted parenthesized double-quote appears to be present in both---almost certainly a conversion problem 01:39 <+SamB> The manpage I'm attempting to fix says: 01:39 <+SamB> Portions of this text are reprinted and reproduced in 01:39 <+SamB> electronic form from IEEE Std 1003.1, 2003 Edition 01:39 <+SamB> and, yeah, basically there are spaces after the links. 01:40 <+SamB> (Except there aren't any links.) 01:40 <+|amethyst> and before < 01:40 <+SamB> and that... and before some , 01:41 <+|amethyst> oh, that one's really weird 01:41 <+|amethyst> '\\', '\a', '\b', '\f', '\n', '\r', '\t' , '\v' 01:41 <+SamB> anyway, I think the problem is probably that everyone is expecting too much from sed 01:41 <+|amethyst> why a space before the last comma but not any of the others? 01:41 <+SamB> probably something to do with a line break in the source... 01:41 <+|amethyst> yeah 01:43 <+SamB> apparantly POSIX is written in low-macro troff... 01:43 <+|amethyst> I guess it being troff is unsurprising 01:45 * SamB isn't really sure how well non-GNU troff supports macros, either 01:46 <+|amethyst> macros have been around since the beginning 01:47 <+|amethyst> though I'm sure groff has plenty of extensions 01:48 <+SamB> I know they've been around, but I'm not sure how much they can do in baseline troff 01:49 <+SamB> and whether that might be a big part of why there are so few in the source I'm looking at 01:50 <+SamB> (which seems to be somehow -- it isn't specified precisely how -- derived from that for POSIX) 01:56 <+SamB> (Mostly, what I mean is that there are \f escapes EVERYWHERE.) 01:59 <+|amethyst> oh, you mean instead of .B and the like ? 02:14 * SamB is a but fuzzy on the usual macros, but supposes that this is probably what he means 02:17 <+|amethyst> It's been forever since I used *roff... about 15 years ago, before I learned TeX, I was using it to write papers 02:18 < CIA-112> |amethyst * r0547df333ae5 /crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Whitespace fix. 02:21 ۰۰-- st_ [~s@cpc10-stre5-2-0-cust69.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31 * SamB wonders why the kitten has been perched on his shoulder for so long 02:41 <+Zaba> groff has more extensions as primitives than in macro packages 02:42 <+Zaba> as of "non-GNU troff", there's heirloom troff that nobody uses ever and it has some quirks that make it unusable for most manpages in the wild 02:42 <+Zaba> and there's mandoc, which isn't a full troff implementation, and works _only_ for manpages (either -man or -mdoc), and is excellent for them 02:45 <+SamB> Zaba: well, I think POSIX was started a *long* time ago ... 03:03 ۰۰-- the_glow [~the_glow@host86-173-85-81.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45 ۰۰-- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Arian-, oberstein 03:49 ۰۰-- Netsplit over, joins: Arian-, oberstein 04:04 ۰۰-- blabber [~tobi@datenschleuder.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17 ۰۰-- dtsund [~detasund@s81-236-68-64.trico.az.wi-power.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:26 ۰۰-- Ragdoll_ [~Ragdoll@g031.h001.peer2me.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26 ۰۰-- syllogism [syllogism@89-166-16-68.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:30 ۰۰-- Pingas [~Pingas@40.181.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39 ۰۰-- petete [~quassel@190.190.173.140] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:43 ۰۰-- nooodl [~nooodl@91.177.143.102] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44 < CIA-112> evilmike * r082138512ec1 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/altar.des: Changes to lemuel_hellish_altar. 05:44 ۰۰-- Ragdoll_ [~Ragdoll@g031.h001.peer2me.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52 < CIA-112> evilmike * r935db01b9d9a /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hells.des: Correct a mis-defined floor tile. 06:01 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32 ۰۰-- evilmike [~evilmike@66.183.151.151] has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:36 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44 ۰۰-- alefury [~galefury@B4115.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50 ۰۰-- petete [~quassel@190.190.173.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:58 ۰۰-- wtface [~o_O@c-67-169-135-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Your quote here!] 06:59 ۰۰-- petete [~quassel@190.190.173.140] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39 < st_> I don't like how many "You scratch the ..." messages my ghoul is getting. It makes me feel like I'm playing a felid 08:05 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08 ۰۰-- petete [~quassel@190.190.173.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17 ۰۰-- Reksch [587037f2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.112.55.242] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17 < Reksch> Hello 08:18 < Reksch> usually Crawl builds just fine but after pulling new code yesterday I keep getting this: http://pastebin.com/ic8WUf9c 08:21 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@g020.h001.peer2me.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36 ۰۰-- elderman [~elderman@bob75-3-89-80-183-24.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40 ۰۰-- monqy [~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 08:55 ۰۰-- Reksch [587037f2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.112.55.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:05 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@g020.h001.peer2me.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35 ۰۰-- Ragdoll_ [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36 ۰۰-- Ragdoll_ is now known as Ragdoll 09:36 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:50 <@rax> elliptic: Looks like it's getting an error at compiletime, cc1: error: unrecognized command line option "-Werror=format-security" 09:50 <@rax> Trying it manually 09:56 <+elliptic> rax: I guess this has something to do with a commit kilobyte made "Unbreak builds with -Wformat-security." 09:56 <@rax> Yup, happened again 09:57 <@rax> I, uh, suspect that might flip the un- for some folks 09:57 <@rax> Let me know when you want me to try it again I guess? 09:58 <+elliptic> I know nothing about makefile stuff :( hopefully kilobyte will appear at some point 09:58 <+elliptic> yeah, we'll let you know when this might be fixed... thanks! 09:58 <+kilobyte> uhm, what compiler do you have on CAO? That option is pretty ancient... and most distributions make it mandatory by now. 09:59 <+kilobyte> -Werror=format-security is not needed, of course... I just copied the usual defaults 10:00 <@rax> CAO runs on Old. 10:02 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r21d625dd7a49 /crawl-ref/source/maps.cc: Don't rebuild .dsc when only the executable is newer. 10:07 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r3855d30092fd /crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Drop -Werror=format-security, ancient compilers can't handle it. 10:08 ۰۰-- monqy [~swell@pool-71-102-226-192.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35 ۰۰-- jeanjacques [~jejacques@port-92-200-112-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-3001-g3855d30 (32) 11:29 ۰۰-- Wensley [~chatzilla@dynamic-acs-72-23-89-126.zoominternet.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36 < CIA-112> elliptic * re510d2bcd3b6 /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix constriction attacks using UC-specific code. 11:36 < CIA-112> elliptic * reb143a196a78 /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h): Rename "baseattack" to "uc_attack", fix a couple comments. 11:38 ۰۰-- DaneiTWO [~Danei@d14-69-62-62.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:39 * elderman is away: 11:39 ۰۰-- ais523 [~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40 ۰۰-- kilobyte [~kilobyte@2a03:9300:10::5] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:40 ۰۰-- MarvinPA_ [~MarvinPA@85.211.123.203] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v MarvinPA_] by ChanServ 11:40 ۰۰-- kilobyte [~kilobyte@2a03:9300:10::5] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v kilobyte] by ChanServ 11:46 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:46 ۰۰-- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:47 ۰۰-- the_glow [~the_glow@host86-176-60-201.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59 ۰۰-- dtsund [~detasund@s81-236-68-64.trico.az.wi-power.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11 < Henzell> Daek the Thaumaturge (L6 DESu) ASSERT(count_valid > 0) in 'shopping.cc' at line 1940 failed on turn 492. (D) 12:13 < the_glow> sorry i dont understand how the bug reporting works so i will just mention this here: okawaru apparently does not care if enslaved monsters die but treats them as allies in every other respect (penance for attacking them etc). is this intentional? it seems counterintuitive 12:16 <+|amethyst> !lm daek crash -log 12:16 < Sequell> 9. Daek, XL4 DDNe, T:2133 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Daek/crash-Daek-20110706-183211.txt 12:17 <+|amethyst> !lm daek desu xl=6 crash -log 12:17 < Sequell> Daek, XL9 DESu, T:9733: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Daek/morgue-Daek-20110125-214017.txt 12:17 <+|amethyst> !lm daek 12:17 < Sequell> 1192. [2011-12-29] Daek the Gelid (L14 DEIE) killed Maurice on turn 34783. (Orc:2) 12:18 <+|amethyst> oh 12:18 <+|amethyst> !lm daek sprint crash -log 12:18 < Sequell> 1. Daek, XL6 DESu, T:492 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Daek/crash-Daek-20111229-171106.txt 12:20 <+|amethyst> the_glow: not sure whether it's intentional or not 12:23 < the_glow> |amethyst: ok, it just struck me as an oddity and thought it was worth mentioning. i know i just assumed that okawaru would be annoyed by that and was surprised when he wasn't 12:25 <+elliptic> just to be clear, you mean you didn't get the "you feel guilty" message? 12:25 <+elliptic> since I'd expect that and a tiny amount of piety loss, nothing more 12:25 < the_glow> elliptic: nope. checked in wizmode and no piety hit, also, both in 0.9.1 and latest trunk 12:25 <+|amethyst> DID_FRIEND_DIED only gets triggered in the KILL_MON case 12:26 <+|amethyst> but since the monster was charmed, it's KILL_YOU_CONF instead 12:29 <+|amethyst> the_glow: did oka appreciate the kill? 12:29 <+|amethyst> (or accept) 12:30 < the_glow> The blink frog hits your quokka! 12:30 < the_glow> _Your quokka is killed! 12:30 < the_glow> _A boulder beetle comes into view. 12:30 < the_glow> ^ he seems to be entirely indifferent 12:32 <+|amethyst> well, that's good at least 12:35 <+|amethyst> I think a confused-by-you monster killing an ally would also give no piety loss 12:37 <+|amethyst> so that block of code for DID_FRIEND_DIED (mon-stuff.cc:1969-1979) would also need to happen under KILL_YOU_CONF, not just KILL_MON 12:39 <+|amethyst> question: if a monster with constriction polymorphs into another monster with constriction, should it lose constriction? 12:40 <+|amethyst> certainly if it polymorphs into a monster without constriction it should 12:41 < phyphor> is there a difference between a shapeshifter polymorphiong and, say, a wand effect? 12:41 <+|amethyst> not really; both use the polymorph code if I'm not mistaken 12:42 < phyphor> I'd say that it would be frustrating but thematically make sense for polymorphing to retain constriction if it can 12:43 <+|amethyst> the naga -> octopode case would be a bit weird (did its tail become tentacles?) 12:43 < phyphor> yes, yes it did 12:43 <+|amethyst> also, the monster "evaporates and reforms" 12:43 < phyphor> do shapeshifters evaporate? 12:44 <+|amethyst> hm 12:44 <+|amethyst> true, they do not 12:44 < phyphor> that's why I asked 12:44 <+|amethyst> the message is special-cased depending on a lot of things 12:44 <+|amethyst> e.g. if you zap polymorph at a bee larva and it happens to turn into a bee, you'll get a popping sound 12:48 <+|amethyst> There's also the question of what to do if an octopode turns into a naga 12:48 <+|amethyst> pick one constrictee at random, or always the first one? 12:49 <+MarvinPA> probably just clear the constrictions, i'd say 12:49 <+MarvinPA> keeping them sounds a bit complicated, and weird if tentacles are turning into a tail or whichever way round it is 12:50 <+elliptic> speaking of constriction, what should happen when you become larger than the monster who is constricting you 12:50 <+elliptic> for instance, with dragon form 12:51 <+|amethyst> I'd think it should lose its grip 12:52 <+|amethyst> hm, what about the other way around? 12:53 <+|amethyst> if polymorphing monsters always lose constriction, should you always lose your constriction on them, or only when they become too large? 13:05 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 13:13 < alefury> i think polymorph breaking you out is nice 13:14 < alefury> gives the wand another situational use 13:14 < alefury> very very hidden use, though. :( 13:14 <+|amethyst> kind of like its use as a wand of disarming :) 13:15 < ais523> alefury: it's standard tactics in NetHack 13:15 < ais523> for dealing with air elementals 13:15 < ais523> but /oPoly is pretty valuable in NetHack, so people try to avoid having to do that 13:17 <+|amethyst> so before I start digging into the constriction code some more, I wanted to warm up with some smaller fixes. 5141: TSO-ites can gain piety discovering plants and fungi. Should the check be mons_is_firewood, or just M_NO_EXP_GAIN ? 13:17 <+|amethyst> I'm thinking the latter because of kraken tentacles 13:17 <+elliptic> I think M_NO_EXP_GAIN, yes 13:21 <+|amethyst> viewmap.cc:724:37: warning: variable ‘scroll_y’ set but not used [-Wunused-but-set-variable] 13:21 <+|amethyst> this has been annoying me for a while 13:21 <+|amethyst> guess I'll try to fix that too 13:21 <+|amethyst> err 13:22 <+|amethyst> that's not just a matter of certain compile options... scroll_y really is unused 13:22 <+|amethyst> oh 13:22 <+|amethyst> no, it's not 13:22 <+|amethyst> it's used in an #ifndef USE_TILE_LOCAL 13:22 <+|amethyst> okay then 13:23 <+|amethyst> finally, compilation is done 13:26 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27 <+|amethyst> what's a good vault full of plants? 13:28 <+MarvinPA> isn't that an oxymoron? :P 13:28 <+SamB> |amethyst: good in what sense? 13:28 <+|amethyst> heh 13:29 < Eronarn> the fedhas plant filled one is good 13:29 < Eronarn> very thematic 13:29 <+|amethyst> I used minmay_entry_arboretum_large 13:29 <+|amethyst> which got me from no stars to three 13:30 * SamB wonders why he's never seen roderic_crop_circles_entry_large 13:31 <+|amethyst> haha 13:31 <+|amethyst> that one got me to six stars 13:33 <+|amethyst> and it didn't take very long for a kraken to get me to six stars, either 13:39 ۰۰-- HangedMan [63e6725f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.230.114.95] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46 < CIA-112> |amethyst * r9b43b2de285a /crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Do not give TSO piety for seeing no-XP monsters. 13:46 < CIA-112> |amethyst * ra073fa1e80a2 /crawl-ref/settings/init.txt: init.txt: contaminated chunks cause nausea now. 13:48 <+SamB> |amethyst: might want something different for fungus colony stuff? 13:48 <+|amethyst> SamB: ? 13:48 <+SamB> maybe not 13:48 <+SamB> aren't ballistomycetes flagged as no-XP? 13:49 <+|amethyst> they are, but I don't know that it's a good idea to encourage them taking over the level to max TSO piety 13:50 <+SamB> point ... 13:51 <+|amethyst> crawling corpses and macabre masses are also no-XP, but they're also evil so there's no change 14:00 < CIA-112> |amethyst * rfa430f493fe6 /crawl-ref/source/viewmap.cc: Avoid an unused variable warning with USE_LOCAL_TILES. 14:03 <+elliptic> so I haven't noticed myself trampling monsters at all in dragon form this game 14:07 ۰۰-- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: alefury 14:08 <+elliptic> looking at the code I don't even understand how this is supposed to work 14:08 ۰۰-- Netsplit over, joins: alefury 14:08 <+elliptic> probably messed up by UCC, I guess 14:10 ۰۰-- nooodl [~nooodl@91.177.143.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16 < st_> I would rather not trample things in it 14:17 <+elliptic> what about making trample an active ability 14:18 <+elliptic> I agree it is awkward as a passive ability, since you really rarely want to use it 14:25 <+|amethyst> you could use do it on CMD_EVOKE_WIELDED 14:25 <+|amethyst> s/use // 14:35 < Gretell> Bart (L27 HuWz) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed. (Dis:7) 14:35 <+|amethyst> !lm bart crash -log 14:35 < Sequell> 1. Bart, XL27 HuWz, T:87167 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Bart/crash-Bart-20111229-193451.txt 14:36 <+elliptic> |amethyst: I was considering that, yeah... though then there's the question of how people would know to press v for that 14:36 <+|amethyst> How do they know to press v for reaching? 14:36 < ais523> what if you wanted to trample while holding an evokable weapon? 14:36 <+|amethyst> not currently possible 14:36 <+|amethyst> unless you wanted to give trample to some race 14:37 < ais523> NetHack has a command for using special attacks of polymorph forms, and tells you what it is when you polymorph into a form that can use it 14:37 < ais523> that's a pretty good solution, I think 14:37 < ais523> (in AceHack, I improved it by making it a single-character command) 14:38 <+|amethyst> breathe fire is under 'a' 14:38 < Eronarn> elliptic: if you can link the trample code i will take a look at it 14:38 <+|amethyst> so that would be reasonable, too 14:38 < Eronarn> i messed around with it a lot for forest wyrms 14:38 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: melee_attack.cc, search for do_knockback 14:38 < Eronarn> that's not a link :( 14:38 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: currently player trample will only happen if the attack verb is "trample", which will never happen 14:39 <+elliptic> the thing I don't understand is why it is checking attack_verb == "trample" 14:39 ۰۰-- indspenceable [~indspence@wrls-67-134-207-192.wrls.harvard.edu] has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39 <+elliptic> and elsewhere carefully using custom attack verbs for dragonform that do not include "trample" 14:39 < Eronarn> elliptic: because it was that way before UCC :) 14:39 < Eronarn> yes, it's dumb 14:39 <+elliptic> and I don't know how it is actually supposed to work 14:39 <+elliptic> like, how often should dragonform trample? 14:40 < Eronarn> it gets set as a coinflip elsewhere iirc 14:40 < Eronarn> i think it's trample 50% of the time and normal damage-based verb the other 50% 14:40 <+elliptic> ah, so maybe that just got lost in UCC 14:40 <+elliptic> thanks, that will help when I go to compare with pre-UCC 14:40 <+|amethyst> elliptic: https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/fa430f493fe626254d021fb3fcb6b68d4d241d0c/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc 14:40 < Eronarn> i haven't pulled pre UCC 14:40 <+|amethyst> oop 14:40 < Eronarn> i can just look at it 14:40 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: ^^ 14:41 <+|amethyst> that's the current code 14:41 < Eronarn> else 14:41 < Eronarn> { 14:41 < Eronarn> attack_verb = "maul"; 14:41 < Eronarn> if (coinflip()) 14:41 < Eronarn> attack_verb = "trample"; 14:41 < Eronarn> } 14:41 < Eronarn> so it's only if damage => HIT_STRONG, and then a coinflip trample chance 14:42 <+elliptic> yeah, I was wondering if it depended on damage 14:42 <+elliptic> thanks! 14:42 < Eronarn> which means the damage verb can be trample even if there's nowhere to trample :) 14:42 < Eronarn> fun times 14:42 <+|amethyst> but that's not too different from the monster case 14:42 < Eronarn> |amethyst: yeah, that was one thing i changed for forest wyrms 14:43 < Eronarn> i made them use 'trample' as the verb until they couldn't trample, and then their verb changed to 'bite' 14:43 ۰۰-- nooodl [~nooodl@91.177.143.102] has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45 < HangedMan> wasn't there something about how anacondas having the bite ontop of the constriction being overly powerful could be helped with that 14:46 < CIA-112> elliptic * r998156aa3cec /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Let dragonformed players trample again. 14:46 < Eronarn> anacondas have a pretty weak bite for their size irl don't they 14:46 <+elliptic> I think it was intentional for monsters to have both constriction and a regular attack though 14:47 <+elliptic> the problem with anacondas being overly powerful is that constriction in general is overly powerful 14:48 < Eronarn> i think it'd make sense to make anacondas have a weak melee attack and a powerful constriction attack. so they're not much of a threat if you're unconstrictable for some reason 14:49 < HangedMan> aren't trolls and ogres large enough to not be constricted by anacondas 14:49 < HangedMan> or is it just dragon form 14:49 < Eronarn> just dragon i think 14:49 <+elliptic> eronarn: they already seemed pretty easy in dragon form on my current char 14:50 <+elliptic> their non-constriction attack is only 20 damage now (used to be 30) 14:50 < Eronarn> elliptic: anacondas easy in *dragon form*? :P 14:50 <+elliptic> it could possibly be even lower 14:56 ۰۰-- indspenceable [~indspence@wrls-67-134-207-192.wrls.harvard.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01 ۰۰-- ortoslon [~ortoslon@193.124.221.53] has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08 ۰۰-- indspenceable [~indspence@pool-74-104-32-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16 ۰۰-- Xiberia [~chatzilla@81-235-209-121-no62.tbcn.telia.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48 ۰۰-- st_ [~s@cpc10-stre5-2-0-cust69.1-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:52 ۰۰-- indspenceable [~indspence@pool-74-104-32-150.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left ##crawl-dev [] 15:53 ۰۰-- wtface [~o_O@c-67-169-135-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27 <+|amethyst> so, if you're constricting a monster and it polymorphs, should you lose constriction? 16:28 <+|amethyst> definitely if it's too big, but I was thinking it would be only fair to do it always, since it will lose its constriction on you 16:34 < Eronarn> |amethyst: i think it dissolves and reforms, right? 16:35 < Eronarn> it loses all its equipment 16:36 <+kilobyte> yeah, so it looks like it should lose constriction too 16:37 <+|amethyst> well, "dissolving and reforming" depends on stuff 16:37 <+|amethyst> shapechangers don't use that message 16:37 <+|amethyst> but yeah 16:38 <+|amethyst> my question was about the inverse case... should you lose your constriction? 16:38 < HangedMan> what gimmick do paladins have? 16:38 <+|amethyst> dissolving and reforming would imply yes, but again that message depends on what it was polymorphed to/from 16:40 <+|amethyst> (also, I'm doing this in change_monster_type rather than monster_polymorph, so it also applies to abominations being upgraded) 16:41 <+|amethyst> hm 16:41 <+|amethyst> message order is wrong 16:41 ۰۰-- ais523 [~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42 <+|amethyst> because monster_polymorph doesn't give the "evaporates and reforms" message until after change_monster_type returns 16:42 <+|amethyst> I guess I could do it in monster_polymorph, but that's really the wrong place 16:43 <+|amethyst> there are already some message ordering problems with netted monsters polymorphing, I think 16:43 <+|amethyst> all of which is ultimately my fault for splitting the function 16:45 <+|amethyst> it would be nice if there were some way to temporarily capture messages so you could delay them until after another one 16:46 < Ragdoll> i would like to note that you are still unable to do anything against monsters behind glass/trees 16:46 <+|amethyst> I encountered a similar issue when trying and failing to correct some message ordering problems with weapon brands 16:47 < alefury> Ragdoll: they cant do anything to you either. unless they are eyes, i think. 16:48 < Ragdoll> i would like to shoutattack my zombies to attack that monster, which is visible behind a tree 16:48 < Ragdoll> with a pathfinding route even the most droll zombies could figure out 16:49 <+|amethyst> I think ta probably should work on anything visible, as long as your *allies* aren't behind glass themselves 16:49 <+|amethyst> since they couldn't hear you in that case 16:51 < Eronarn> |amethyst: seems pretty simple to do... add a function that takes the message and a weight, then saves it somewhere. then the next time print function is called, print stuff according to weight 16:51 < Eronarn> then the weights can just be tweaked manually as needed. it would be much simpler than the current way 16:52 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: the issue is that something calls a function that calls a function that prints 16:52 <+|amethyst> I'd like to be able to call a function and be guaranteed that it won't print any messages 16:52 < Eronarn> |amethyst: right, you'd need to replace existing prints like that with 'print_to_queue' 16:52 < Eronarn> but not all prints would need to do that, just problematic ones 16:53 <+|amethyst> whether something is problematic depends on where it is called from, though 16:53 <+kilobyte> might be an overkill... there's but a few such cases, and you can pass the message[s] explicitely 16:54 <+|amethyst> e.g. check_net_will_hold_monster 16:55 <+|amethyst> I'd like to delay the message when change_monster_type() calls that, but not when swap_with_monster() does 16:56 <+|amethyst> I was thinking a flag that makes mpr and friends queue up messages rather than printing them; and a function to release the queue 16:57 <+|amethyst> but that's not enough, since the whole point is to be able to stick messages in front of the queued ones 16:57 < Eronarn> |amethyst: that's why you have weights :) 16:57 < Eronarn> you can have, say, function A = weight 0 16:57 < Eronarn> function B calls A, and adds something weight -5 16:57 < Eronarn> function C calls A, and adds something weight 5 16:58 < Eronarn> so the order is BA vs. AC 16:58 < Eronarn> even though they have the same function structure 16:59 <+|amethyst> that seems like it would make the message order hard to predict in the usual case, without chasing down your entire call graph 16:59 < Eronarn> |amethyst: it would if we made everything use that system, but i'm proposing just doing it for problematic functions 16:59 < Eronarn> should be very limited in scope 16:59 < Eronarn> mostly to address stuff that right now needs hacks 17:01 <+|amethyst> I was thinking B does: start_message_hold(); A(); release_message_hold(messages_to_prepend); 17:02 < Eronarn> |amethyst: prepending is icky though... what if you need to prepend 3 messages, but their order might vary? :) 17:04 <+|amethyst> then you build messages_to_prepend in the correct order 17:04 <+|amethyst> if they're coming from another function X(), then you have an issue with either solution, since now X and A have to have the correct message priorities relative to one another 17:04 <+|amethyst> and that might differ depending on who's calling them 17:05 < Eronarn> sure, but i'm saying that weighting accomplishes the same thing with less manual effort 17:05 < Eronarn> and little chance of a collision with the low number of cases 17:05 <+|amethyst> when do you actually do the print? 17:06 < Eronarn> before the next 'real' print, or at the end of the current turn, whichever comes first 17:06 <+|amethyst> what's a "real" print? 17:06 < Eronarn> one that isn't using the queue code (i.e., one where mixed ordering hasn't been relevant) 17:06 < Eronarn> same as a release function, but just implicit 17:07 < Eronarn> you could make it explicit but it doesn't seem like it would be helpful 17:07 <+|amethyst> I don't like that... it would mean that every function that gets called, directly or indirectly, from a problematic function needs to be changed to use queuing 17:08 <+|amethyst> even if it's also called from non-problematic functions 17:08 <+|amethyst> I don't like my proposed solution very much either, but it localises the changes to fewer functions 17:09 < Eronarn> that's true. i don't tend to shy away from large changes to crawl code though 17:09 < Eronarn> as it's already so messy / bad 17:10 <+|amethyst> It's not so much the size of the change, as that when choosing which print function to use (queuing or non-queuing), I have to know who my callers will be 17:11 <+|amethyst> I think it's in general better to have to care about who you call than about who's calling you 17:12 <+|amethyst> since you have control over the former but not the latter 17:16 <+|amethyst> (for the same reason, my suggestion should use a stack, not just a flag: I might want to delay my callee's messages even though my messages are themselves being delayed) 17:16 <+|amethyst> (and I shouldn't have to know about the latter fact) 17:22 ۰۰-- evilmike [~evilmike@66.183.151.151] has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v evilmike] by ChanServ 17:23 < alefury> woo, spectral subtractor snake 17:24 < alefury> werent undead subtractors supposed to be banned? or is that only zombies and skeletons 17:39 ۰۰-- ortoslon [~ortoslon@193.124.221.53] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:47 < alefury> anaconda skeletons can constrict, is that intended? i expected them to be too stupid 17:49 <+|amethyst> it doesn't require a lot of intelligence to constrict 17:50 <+|amethyst> and if plant intelligence prevented constriction, shouldn't it also prevent (say) biting? 17:53 <+evilmike> but then we cant have man eating plants that constrict you with its roots... 17:55 < CIA-112> |amethyst * r8111c562c01b /crawl-ref/source/ (13 files): Refactor constriction clearing, fix dead constrictions. 17:55 < CIA-112> |amethyst * r91b060302e51 /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-stuff.cc transform.cc): Stop constriction on polymorph and some form changes. 17:56 < alefury> hm, i got the black tiles in abyss bug again 17:56 < alefury> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4872 17:58 < alefury> new save attached 18:04 <+MarvinPA> elliptic: i just got a weird lua error from autofighting 18:04 <+MarvinPA> Lua error: /crawl-svn-8936582/dat/dlua/macro.lua:27: 18:04 <+MarvinPA> /crawl-svn-8936582/dat/lua/autofight.lua:200: bad argument #1 to 'process_keys' 18:04 <+MarvinPA> _(string expected, got nil) 18:04 <+MarvinPA> oh 18:04 <+MarvinPA> constriction's fault of course, not autofight's 18:04 <+MarvinPA> teleported onto the same square as the monster i was constricting 18:08 ۰۰-- ZChris13 [~ZChris13@64.20.128.250.dyn-e-pool1.pool.hargray.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26 < Ragdoll> constriction needs dragging like anti-trample 18:29 <+evilmike> that would be bad for nagas and octopodes. you can break constriction by stepping away... would become a negative effect if you simply dragged stuff 18:29 < HangedMan> evilmike, mind staring at a vault draft 18:29 <+evilmike> also octopodes of fedhas would be the most overpowered thing in the game, you drag everything into deep water 18:29 <+evilmike> ok sure 18:29 < HangedMan> http://pastebin.com/rK7vBcMR 18:29 < HangedMan> still screwing around with this stupid thing 18:30 <+evilmike> the silver statue doesn't make sense 18:30 <+evilmike> but you've narrowed down the theme a lot, I see 18:30 < Eronarn> we should have something that constricts and tramples 18:30 < HangedMan> had the better idea to just divide themes by vaults rather then just stuff every idea into one vault 18:31 <+evilmike> what's with the last two lines on that map? 18:31 < HangedMan> tentacled monstrosities are huge, give them that both 18:31 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31 < HangedMan> makes the vault have the tree border on the edge of the map without presetting them to all be trees 18:33 <+evilmike> I think you'll need to place an entrance with @ there. I don't think a W counts as an entrance, only floor on the edge of the map or @ characters 18:33 < HangedMan> 'k 18:33 <+evilmike> by there I mean in the vault itself, not on the bottom lines 18:34 < HangedMan> that would explain why the other swamp:5 vaults have @s even though swamp is open enough to make it seem unlikely for a vault to be closed off 18:36 <+evilmike> you place a lot of stuff right at the entrance, much of that will just wander into the level 18:36 <+evilmike> I'd move it a bit deeper unless that's what you want 18:37 < alefury> kilobyte: subtactor snake corpse tiles are missing 18:38 <+evilmike> the outside wall of the vault is very regular, even though the inside is very irregular and chaotic. I'd probably make the stone walls outside more random 18:40 <+evilmike> oh yeah and you probably should use a different cloud type... I don't know about translocational energy just floating around like that. Is that even used anywhere else? I think it's just supposed to be from translocations 18:46 < HangedMan> subst trickery with the borders to make it less clean, push in initial ambush, black smoke instead of translocation energy 18:47 < HangedMan> s/ambush/assault/ 18:47 ۰۰-- ussdefiant [~chatzilla@S010678cd8e7ca058.ed.shawcable.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58 ۰۰-- Ragdoll [~Ragdoll@53518A17.cm-6-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Up, up and away!] 19:04 ۰۰-- jeanjacques [~jejacques@port-92-200-112-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [] 19:04 ۰۰-- ixtli [~textual@ool-4357c7fc.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 19:05 ۰۰-- ixtli [~textual@ool-4357c7fc.dyn.optonline.net] has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16 <+kilobyte> alefury: I'm really thinking about dropping subtractors 19:16 < alefury> they dont seem to do much 19:16 <+kilobyte> they have nothing but an untranslateable pun and a boring copy of killer klowns 19:18 < HangedMan> there are plenty of potential gimmicks! 19:18 < alefury> i dont think a new zot enemy is needed 19:18 < HangedMan> like sixfirhy style healing from bolts and such, umbra, um 19:18 < alefury> with the addition of ghost moths the monster set is really very good imo 19:19 < alefury> no need to make it bigger 19:30 < wtface> well, you only see klowns in zot, if subtractors spawned elsewhere they could make better use of the klown attack 19:38 <+evilmike> i could see them being an abyss monster, maybe 19:40 ۰۰-- casmith789 [~casmith78@cpc6-king9-2-0-cust765.perr.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45 ۰۰-- Pingas [~Pingas@40.181.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49 ۰۰-- elderman [~elderman@bob75-3-89-80-183-24.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54 ۰۰-- petete [~quassel@190.190.173.140] has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56 < CIA-112> |amethyst * r0520eec6b591 /crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Don't use a turn trying to tele/blink when constricted. 19:57 < CIA-112> |amethyst * rf2fc9fd19977 /crawl-ref/source/mon-stuff.cc: Don't land on the monster when coming along for the ride. 19:59 ۰۰-- blabber [~tobi@datenschleuder.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00 < alefury> using them in the abyss sounds nice, yeah 20:00 < alefury> abyss aka the other place with weird stuff :) 20:02 ۰۰-- elderman [~elderman@bob75-3-89-80-183-24.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04 < alefury> could the spellcasting and stealth, invo and evo exp costs be changed to 100%, and the difference be pretty much restored with a global aptitude change? 20:05 < alefury> it would "break" humans, but having different base costs is a bit misleading 20:27 ۰۰-- syllogism [syllogism@89-166-16-68.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:30 ۰۰-- joosa [joosa@heh.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35 <+|amethyst> Napkin: any problems still with the 'monster' stuff? 20:35 <+MarvinPA> i just abyssed myself while constricted and it claimed i was still constricted until i moved: _You escape the lava worm's grasp. 20:35 <+|amethyst> MarvinPA: that should be fixed next update 20:35 <+MarvinPA> aha, cool 20:36 <+|amethyst> specifically, by 8111c56 20:39 ۰۰-- petete [~quassel@190.190.173.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43 < Eronarn> klown attack for subtractors is pretty weird anyways 20:44 < Eronarn> make them be a snake-shape hole in reality with antimagic+draining bite 20:52 < chrisoelmueller> alefury: i'd like that too :) 20:54 < CIA-112> |amethyst * rca800851b0ec /crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Stop constriction in sanctuary. 21:03 <+|amethyst> is there currently a flag or a method for amorphous creatures? 21:03 <+|amethyst> I didn't see one 21:08 ۰۰-- nooodl [~nooodl@91.177.143.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31 ۰۰-- alefury [~galefury@B4115.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39 < Eronarn> |amethyst: check the shatter code 21:39 < Eronarn> it is checked for there 21:39 < Eronarn> not sure how 21:39 <+|amethyst> jellies aren't on that list 21:39 <+|amethyst> just jellyfish and water elementals 21:41 <+|amethyst> ah 21:41 <+|amethyst> I do see now mons_is_slime 21:41 < Eronarn> may want to split all of that into a function 21:43 <+MarvinPA> generalising it to amorphous stuff might be good, yeah 21:43 <+MarvinPA> well, in addition to mons_is_slime 21:44 <+MarvinPA> although i guess maybe eyes aren't amorphous as such 21:44 <+|amethyst> also the shatter-double-damage creatures versus the rPetrify creatures 21:44 <+|amethyst> though those lists are intentionally different 21:45 ۰۰-- SamB_XP_ [~Sam@207-172-114-83.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v SamB_XP_] by ChanServ 21:45 <+|amethyst> also, is there a reason mons_is_statue() returns false for MONS_STATUE ? 21:45 <+MarvinPA> mons_is_brittle or something for LRD and extra shatter damage might also be good... possibly those lists don't quite match up either though 21:46 <+MarvinPA> hm, i think something somewhere assumes statues don't have any attacks? 21:46 ۰۰-- SamB [~Sam@207-172-114-83.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46 <+MarvinPA> but mons_statue is the one used by vault statues and such, some of which do have attacks 21:46 <+|amethyst> hm 21:46 <+MarvinPA> i looked into it once since it confused me too, but i can't remember exactly 21:47 <+|amethyst> I'm not working on the constriction-jelly thing right now, btw; if someone wants to beat me to it, go ahead 21:48 < ZChris13> Has the devteam's stance on that changed? 21:48 < ZChris13> The response to my bug report suggested that was on purpose 21:48 <+|amethyst> ZChris13: jellies not doing acid damage to you while constricting is sort-of-on-purpose 21:49 <+|amethyst> but making jellies unconstrictible is a good idea I think 21:49 <+|amethyst> and water elementals, and maybe jellyfish 21:50 <+MarvinPA> maybe i'll try and finish off my attempt at monster spines 21:50 <+MarvinPA> and then those ought to be unconstrictable too 21:50 <+|amethyst> hmm 21:50 < HangedMan> should spiny ds be unconstrictable? 21:51 < ZChris13> reduced damage? 21:51 <+MarvinPA> dunno, maybe 21:51 <+|amethyst> jellies should be unconstrictible not because they do damage, but because they're amorphous 21:51 <+|amethyst> monster spines raise the question again without providing such an easy out 21:51 <+|amethyst> also, DS with passive freeze 21:51 <+MarvinPA> i guess you choose not to constrict them because it would hurt to do so? 21:52 < ZChris13> That is a lot of prompts though 21:52 <+|amethyst> but what if I really want to constrict them? 21:52 <+MarvinPA> although yeah, ds have lots of passive effects now 21:52 <+MarvinPA> tough :P 21:53 ۰۰-- SamB_XP_ [~Sam@207-172-114-83.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55 ۰۰-- SamB [~Sam@207-172-114-83.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v SamB] by ChanServ 21:56 ۰۰-- SamB_XP_ [~Sam@207-172-114-83.c3-0.upd-ubr1.trpr-upd.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v SamB_XP_] by ChanServ 22:02 < Eronarn> that was originally going to be the plan 22:02 < Eronarn> that you would not constrict things that would hurt you if you tried 22:02 < Eronarn> however, for stuff that really relies on constriction, it might make sense to constrict anyways rather than kill themsleves with their weaker attacks 22:03 <+|amethyst> monsters are generally too dumb to avoid spines, aren't they? 22:03 < Eronarn> yes 22:03 ۰۰-- Xiberia [~chatzilla@81-235-209-121-no62.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03 <+|amethyst> so probably monster-vs-player constriction should be no different 22:06 <+evilmike> note that "slime" isn't just amorphous monsters 22:06 <+evilmike> its used to make stuff immune to acid walls. so "eye" enemies count as slimes 22:06 <+evilmike> at least, they were last time I looked 22:06 <+|amethyst> why do they take less damage from shatter? 22:06 <+evilmike> they're blobby I guess 22:07 <+evilmike> eyes already resist shatter by floating above the ground though, so it doesn't matter much 22:07 <+|amethyst> I guess all the non-amorphous "slimes" are flying, aren't they? 22:07 <+|amethyst> yeah 22:07 <+MarvinPA> also i was lazy and using mons_is_slime seemed better than having yet another horrible ugly long list 22:07 <+MarvinPA> but that too! 22:31 < HangedMan> could nightstalker, though an interesting and double-edged mutation, be altered to not be so annoying and potentially scummy 22:32 < Eronarn> nightstalker seems like a better god ability if anything 22:32 < HangedMan> the infamous but never settled upon stealth god? 22:35 < ZChris13> HangedMan: The ability to turn it on and off 22:35 < HangedMan> hah 22:35 < ZChris13> No think of the possibilities 22:35 < ZChris13> It's a massive buff 22:35 <+|amethyst> does anything change LOS radius besides nightstalker and lantern of shadows? 22:35 < HangedMan> darkness spell 22:35 <+MarvinPA> darkness 22:35 <+|amethyst> oh, right 22:37 <+|amethyst> hm 22:39 ۰۰-- joosa [~joosa@heh.fi] has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02 ۰۰-- HangedMan [63e6725f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.230.114.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:15 <+|amethyst> should constricting monsters get an exper_value bonus? 23:15 <+|amethyst> and, if so, what percentage? 23:50 ۰۰-- blueDave [47e49759@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.228.151.89] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:56 ۰۰-- HangedMan [63e6725f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.230.114.95] has joined ##crawl-dev --- Log closed Fri Dec 30 00:00:24 2011