--- Log opened Sun Dec 25 00:00:18 2011
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01:03 < Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2923-g901dee6 (32)
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01:20 < Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2923-g901dee6
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01:21 < bmh> Merry Christmas -- Can we nerf Mephitic Cloud?
01:22 < bmh> I do solemnly hereby propose that confused entities (monster and player alike) ought not tumble into lava and water, but instead waste a turn.
01:28 <+evilmike> it already got its nerf for 0.10
01:28 <+evilmike> it gets a new nerf every version though, dont worry
01:28 < bmh> evilmike: variable number of clouds, right?
01:28 <+elliptic> don't high-intelligence monsters already avoid drowning?
01:28 <+evilmike> yes to both
01:28 <+elliptic> the definition of "high-intelligence" is weird though
01:29 <+evilmike> stupid/normal int monsters will happily drown themselves, but smarter ones will stand still
01:29 < bmh> I remember killing pretty much everything in a gnoll castle with mephitic cloud.
01:29 <+evilmike> yeah, gnolls aren't smart
01:30 <+evilmike> if you get that vault a bit deeper, it will have elves. those are I_HIGH - can't drown them
01:31 <+evilmike> Anyway, drowning a castle full of gnolls is obviously pretty strong. But here's my argument for keeping it - it's really, really, fun
01:32 < bmh> heh
01:32 <+evilmike> I think the best solution would be to adjust the vault a bit so the moat doesn't go quite as close to the entrance
01:33 < bmh> or make the bridge wider
01:33 < bmh> erm... those are the same :)
01:33 <+evilmike> yeah
01:33 < bmh> is there somewhere I can play squarelos without building it myself?
01:34 <+elliptic> no
01:37 < bmh> http://i.imgur.com/ZcDfm.png -- made my own crappy FOV algorithm :)
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06:01 < alefury> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3439
06:01 < alefury> paralysis thread
06:06 < alefury> also, merry christmas! :)
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06:17 <+Napkin> moin guys and merry christmas!
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06:20 < ghallberg> merry christmas I guess, though it was yesterday for us :)
06:21 <+Napkin> well, 2.5 days here, too, starting yesterday evening :)
06:21 < ghallberg> I guess we
06:21 < ghallberg> 're still "in christmas"
06:21 < ghallberg> but christmas eve is the big day in sweden,.
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06:22 <+Napkin> ja, same in germany
06:22 < ghallberg> I see
06:23 < ghallberg> Well, it's nice to be done with the crazy stuff. Now it's just eating left-overs and sleeping on the couch.
06:23 <+Napkin> agreed! :D
06:23 <+Napkin> hey |amethyst?
06:23 <+Napkin> i merged your changes to "monster.git" - and now i'm getting an error. please ping me when you're in? thanks
06:24 < ghallberg> I'm just waiting for the Doctor Who x-mas special.
06:24 <+Napkin> hehe
06:26 <+Napkin> !tell |amethyst i merged your changes to "monster.git" - and now i'm getting an error. please ping me when you're in? thanks
06:26 < Henzell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
06:26 <+Napkin> haha
06:26 <+Napkin> !tell \|amethyst i merged your changes to "monster.git" - and now i'm getting an error. please ping me when you're in? thanks
06:26 < Henzell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
06:26 <+Napkin> am i screwed?
06:26 <+Napkin> !tell \\|amethyst i merged your changes to "monster.git" - and now i'm getting an error. please ping me when you're in? thanks
06:26 < Henzell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
06:26 <+Napkin> !tell "|amethyst" i merged your changes to "monster.git" - and now i'm getting an error. please ping me when you're in? thanks
06:26 < Henzell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
06:26 <+Napkin> seems so
06:27 < ghallberg> !tell '|amethyst' test
06:27 < Henzell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
06:27 < ghallberg> !help tell
06:27 < Henzell> !tell: I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
06:27 < ghallberg> !help
06:27 < Sequell> !help: Displays help on a command. For a list of commands, see !cmdinfo.
06:27 < Henzell> !help: Displays help on a command. For a list of commands, see !cmdinfo.
06:28 <+Napkin> probably the only reason |amethyst chose that nick ;D
06:28 < ghallberg> :D
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07:45 < alefury> i vaguely remember this problem coming up in the past, and something about substrings also working for !tell
07:45 < alefury> !tell efury test
07:45 < Henzell> alefury: OK, I'll let efury know.
07:45 < alefury> asdf
07:45 < alefury> apparently they dont
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10:18 < alefury> offscreen constriction seems to give messages
10:19 < alefury> got a snake entrance with nagas, so theres nagas in lair
10:19 < alefury> this leads to me being told that the naga releases its hold on the plant while im several screens away
10:20 < alefury> blueDave: constriction bug ^^
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10:25 < alefury> also regarding constriction: im currently trying OpGl of ash. constriction seems rather powerful against anything it works on
10:25 < alefury> its somewhat interesting because this makes big enemies a lot more dangerous than small and regular size ones
10:26 < alefury> what sucks a bit is that i never really cared about monster size before and have to look it up all the time
10:27 < alefury> or rather, i dont look it up, then am surprised i cant constrict yaks
10:27 < alefury> etc
10:27 < HangedMan> isn't it mostly self evident
10:27 < HangedMan> oh, hah
10:27 < HangedMan> "what is plausibly constrained by a human being with no additive implements"
10:27 < alefury> im an octopoidal being, though
10:28 < alefury> also im pretty sure fedor could contrain a yak
10:28  * HangedMan shrugs
10:30 < alefury> also, there are so many large enemies :(
10:31 < alefury> after the early game most of the dangerous stuff is big
10:31 < alefury> not sure about demons
10:33 < Eronarn> yaks aren't that big irl
10:33 < Eronarn> smaller than cows
10:33 < HangedMan> hmm, dangerous not big things
10:33 < HangedMan> unseen horrors!
10:34 < Eronarn> has anyone fixed the weird monster sizes yet
10:34 < Eronarn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Woman_with_yak_at_Qinghai_Lake.jpg <-- domesticated yak
10:34 < HangedMan> like
10:35 < Eronarn> apparently the wild ones are gigantic though, who knew
10:35 < Eronarn> hmm, we should have aurochs in crawl
10:36 < Eronarn> maybe rename death yak to them
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10:36 < HangedMan> arioch's aurochs, hell yaks
10:36 < Eronarn> HangedMan: like spiders being size little
10:36 < Eronarn> which is like the size of a cat
10:37 < HangedMan> giant spider
10:37 < HangedMan> which fits with giant newt and giant cockroach
10:37 < Eronarn> yeah they're pretty clearly giant spiders from how deadly they can be
10:37 < Eronarn> @??wolf spider
10:37 < Gretell> wolf spider (s) | Speed: 15 | HD: 8 | Health: 28-62 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 20(medium poison) | Res: magic(32) | Vul: poison | Chunks: poison+contam | XP: 457.
10:37 < Eronarn> dam 20!
10:38 < HangedMan> giant spider's nest
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10:46 < alefury> there are lots of dangerous regular size enemies still in the mid and late game
10:46 < alefury> draconians, elves, orcs...
10:46 < alefury> most demons too i think
10:47 < HangedMan> maybe size should be listed in description
10:47 < alefury> it is
10:47 < alefury> "it is large"
10:47 < HangedMan> oh right
10:47 < HangedMan> pff
10:47 < alefury> just the bots dont list it
10:48 < alefury> has the vault review for reaching spears happened yet?
10:48 < alefury> because i just stumbled upon a labyrinth ending with a minotaur zombie behind lava that i can reach to death
10:49 < alefury> oh, thats not an ending
10:49 < alefury> even better, double loot!
10:54 < Eronarn> does constriction require an attack roll? i seem to be reliably killing bats with it
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11:02 < alefury> Eronarn: according to the proposal it should respect ev
11:02 < alefury> no idea about the implementation
11:02 < alefury> i had the save observation about bats
11:05 < alefury> *same
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12:05 < blueDave> merry Christmas all
12:05 < blueDave> attempt is successful if d(3,Str*size) > d(3*EV*size)
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12:06 < blueDave> got the msg about offscreen messages
12:14 < Eronarn> blueDave: wait... you use *size for both?
12:14 < Eronarn> no wonder. bats are tiny
12:14 < Eronarn> there should really be two steps: hitting, and then successfully grappling
12:15 < Eronarn> because the size influence on EV is much smaller than if size is used as a multiplier
12:16 < res> ??spell power
12:16 < Henzell> spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2  +  2*avg school skill) * INT divided by 10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count).  Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200.  Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66.
12:20 < Eronarn> i wonder if size squared is the right formula to use for the second half
12:21 < Eronarn> kind of hard to make it work with str, though, since str can get so high
12:21 < Eronarn> and size can't change
12:21 < Eronarn> using HD as a proxy for str won't work because stuff like orcs have really low HD but so do bats
12:22 < res> @??sky beast
12:22 < Gretell> sky beast (I) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 16-39 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Damage: 5(elec:5-6) | Flags: fly | Res: magic(20), elec+++, asphyx | Chunks: mutagenic | XP: 130.
12:22 < HangedMan> size can change!
12:22 < HangedMan> constrict a shapeshifter!
12:23 < Eronarn> actually, that was a misstatement: the problem is that size is a poor indicator, by itself, of grappleability
12:23 < Eronarn> because two things can be the same size but radically different strength
12:23 < Eronarn> see: cerebov
12:23 < HangedMan> maybe involve hd?
12:24 < Eronarn>  < Eronarn> using HD as a proxy for str won't work because stuff like orcs have really low HD but so do bats
12:24 < HangedMan> oh pff
12:24 < Eronarn> i mean it might be possible to include it to some degree, but it's going to be weird
12:24 < Eronarn> @??saint roka
12:24 < Gretell> Saint Roka (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 200 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Damage: 35 | Flags: evil | Res: magic(72) | Vul: holy | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 8385 | Sp: smiting (7-17).
12:24 < Eronarn> @??orc
12:24 < Gretell> orc (o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 5 | Res: magic(4) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 3.
12:25 < Eronarn> saint roka probably shouldn't be all that much harder to grapple than an orc... maybe twice as hard?
12:25 < HangedMan> one would also think that viscous stuff should easily escape constriction and be hard to constrict in and of itself
12:25 < Eronarn> three times?
12:25 < Eronarn> not eighteen times
12:25 < HangedMan> beogh has granted him strength
12:25 < Eronarn> on the other hand an orc should be much, much harder to grapple than a bat (if you manage to hit the bat)
12:29 < res> "_Your stomach is not as upset anymore, so let's find someone to eat." that's brilliant
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13:06 < ghallberg> freed slave the human zombie
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13:15 < DrPraetor> I've got items - a meat ration, and some large rocks - which are both at the top of a shop stack and appear to be inside the walls at the edge of the map.  Is there any way to save the state of a game on CAO for debugging reference, and then keep playing?
13:15 < DrPraetor> Well, they'll still be here later.
13:19 < HangedMan> maybe it's related to however sprint III has that bug
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13:57 < res> ??call imp
13:57 < Henzell> call imp[1/1]: Temporarily summons a friendly little imp guy. Iron imps are possible in trunk. Usually calls a regular imp, but it'll be a white imp something like 1/3 of the time and a shadow imp (hopefully you didn't want any corpses) something like 1/10. Shadow imps see invisible, but are not exactly killing machines.
13:57 < res> how useful is call imp?
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14:06 < Eronarn> it's reasonable
14:06 <+elliptic> it is quite good
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14:15 < res> does it really basically act like walking animate dead with high power?
14:19 <+elliptic> you can use it as a cumbersome and slow source of animate dead, yes
14:21 < res> I'm apparently amassing a zombie army without any necro skill
14:22 < Eronarn> i feel like shadow imps shouldn't have animate dead
14:22 <+elliptic> or maybe call imp shouldn't have shadow imps
14:25 < res> it seems kind of silly
14:26 < Eronarn> for a while i've thought that maybe imp could be a distraction-y enemy
14:26 < Eronarn> iron imps are already very tough, crimson imps blink
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14:27 < Eronarn> if shadow imps had umbra (which demons see through), that would make imps even more like that
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14:48 < res> ??umbra
14:48 < Henzell> umbra[1/1]: An unholy aura which, opposite to Halo, causes accuracy penalties while also cancels haloes. Undead/Demons/**+ Yredelemnul worshippers are immune.
14:48 < res> ??halo
14:48 < Henzell> halo[1/1]: TSO lights up you and your surroundings like the Olympic Stadium, in a piety-based radius, centered on you. Within the halo's radius, every creature (excluding you) is easier to hit in melee, invisible creatures are revealed, and your stealth is ruined. Evil summons immediately turn hostile with TSO, but this is true of all good gods, not the halo.
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14:50 < res> ??maurice
14:50 < Henzell> maurice[1/3]: A unique thief! He's that green @ that just stole something out of your inventory, and then teleported away. Has a cloak.
14:56 < res> @??shaow imp
14:56 < Gretell> unknown monster: "shaow imp"
14:56 < res> @??shadow imp
14:56 < Gretell> shadow imp (5) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 6-16 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 6 | Flags: demonic, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: magic(8), cold++, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 11 | Sp: pain (d8), animate dead.
14:57 < res> @??crimson imp
14:57 < Gretell> crimson imp (5) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-18 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Damage: 4 | Flags: demonic, fly, regen, !sil | Res: magic(36), hellfire, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: cold, holy++ | XP: 48 | Sp: blink.
15:02 < res> ??edmund
15:02 < Henzell> edmund[1/3]: Sigmund's jealous, younger, and less magically talented brother. He has more money and wit, though, and a shiny flail!
15:02 < res> @??edmund
15:02 < Gretell> Edmund (@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 44 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 6 | Res: magic(21) | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 164.
15:07 < res> ??rain
15:07 < Henzell> fedhas[3/7]: rain - creates a circle of water around you, the floor becomes shallow water, shallow water becomes deep water, randomly spawns plants and fungus
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15:26 < res> ??demonic horde
15:27 < Henzell> demonic horde[1/3]: Level 6 spell from Demonology. Summons multiple 5's, not all friendly. Notable in that it summons a lot of 5's (8-10 isn't uncommon), which all have demonic resistances, and includes ranged white imps, massive EV tanks, decent damage or shadow imps that raise dead, with a considerable duration.
15:27 < HangedMan> I wish lemure and midge were less boring
15:28 < res> what's the abj dur?
15:29 < res> ... why would 8-10 be uncommon, it's 7+random2(5_
15:29 < res> 7-11 demons
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15:43 < HangedMan>  Oh no! You have blundered into a Zot trap! _You partially resist. You are blasted with ice! 
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15:50 < HangedMan> ASSERT(attk_type < static_cast<int>(sizeof(attack_types) / sizeof(const char *))) in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3872 failed.
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18:55 < HangedMan> 2010	     // XXX: Will be Z_SMALL, but is Z_BIG until code for zombie spawns 2011	     // is no longer based on zombie size.
18:55 < HangedMan> this suddenly seems relavent now that constriction makes size relevant for octopodes and nagas
18:56 < HangedMan> (that comment's for trapdoor spider)
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19:35 <+SamB_XP> Hmm, crawl doesn't work very well with a terminal configured to use actual bold (rather than using a lighter color of text)...
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19:38 <+SamB_XP> (Well, that, or the putty-256color terminfo is busted...)
19:41 < CIA-112> SamB * r2b4d304a0cdd /crawl-ref/source/hints.cc: Hints: Fix a couple of hardcoded references to '\' as the portal glyph.
19:44 < CIA-112> SamB * r37f0476e1ae3 /crawl-ref/source/hints.cc: Hints: While we're here, fix some typos and such.
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20:28 < CIA-112> SamB * rae15d2e64f5e /crawl-ref/source/message.cc: Fix coloured channels && auto-capitalisation in mpr().
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23:18 < HangedMan> if step from time transports the player off the map grid, how does that interact with constriction?
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23:47 < res> is there some sort of manual for wizmode
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 26 00:00:19 2011