--- Log opened Wed Dec 21 00:00:12 2011
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01:03 < Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2858-gbf1390a (32)
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01:19 < Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2858-gbf1390a
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02:16 < bmh> Zannick: Eric agreed/offered to work on my roguelike. Poor bastard.
02:18 < Zannick> my condolences.
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02:24 < bmh> Zannick: haskell is beautiful. I bet I could clone crawl in it in 30 days with a lot of coffee or methamphetamine
02:24 <@due> What abbout dextroamphetamine?
02:24 < Zannick> sounds like a good goal. see you on jan 20?
02:24 <@due> (I have ... some sppare.)
02:24 < bmh> due: aren't you in Australia?
02:24 < bmh> er, that's doy.
02:24 <@due> no, that's me
02:25 < bmh> galefury, at least he had the decency to change his name so people like me would stop being confused :)
02:25 <@due> I'm just wondering if my spare dex would help with all my coding woes :D
02:26 < bmh> I don't know about you, but after a sudafed I need to turn down my mouse sensitivity.
02:26 < bmh> due: Is there a big list of dpegian wisdom as it relates to getting roguelike design right?
02:27 <@due> bmh: "be dpeg" is #1
02:27 < bmh> working on it.
02:29 < bmh> but really, I thought there was a 'philosophy of crawl' section on the dev wiki
02:31 < jle> ??crawl philosophy
02:31 < Henzell> philosophy[1/2]: http://people.msoe.edu/~brayshaj/files/irdc/irdc.2008.David.Ploog.v2.pdf
02:31 < jle> This looks like it might be what you're looking for.
02:32 < bmh> jle: exactly! Thank you
02:33 <+SamB> bmh: check the user manual
02:34 <+SamB> what # is "hate tolkein"?
02:39 < bmh> SamB: they're all "hate tolkein" just read between the lines
02:40 < bmh> I did enjoy the tavern thread about renaming "Halfling" to "Goblin"
02:40 <+evilmike> i stayed out of that one
02:41 < bmh> As a registered halfling hater, I like it. >:)
02:41 <+evilmike> i find halflings a lot more fun to play than kobolds
02:41 < jle> Is this going to be another no-mechanical-changes rename?
02:41 < bmh> jle: You can bet your tengu on it.
02:42 < jle> Cool. More little green guys. 
02:42 < jle> Or whatever the tiles team churns out, I suppose.
02:47 <+evilmike> if there's actually been a decision about this it should probably go to the c-r-d mailing list, at least as long as this channel lacks logging
02:47 <+evilmike> or it could just be that bmh is making stuff up..
02:47 < bmh> evilmike: All I said is I like what the folks on the tavern said. I don't think anyone has agreed to anything.
02:50 <@due> what colour is hate tolkein?
02:52 < G-Flex> I was curious about the exact mechanics of the Ds Ignite Blood mutation
02:53 < G-Flex> particularly, how it interplays with tiles that *already* have blood on them that's previously caught fire
02:53 < G-Flex> let's say I fight some monsters in a corridor, and the whole thing fills with blood, which catches on fire and it's spilled
02:53 <@due> isn't it going to decay blood stains?
02:53 < G-Flex> those tiles remain bloody
02:54 < G-Flex> so when I fight more creatures in that same hallway, will fresh blood from those creatures "refresh" those tiles, allowing them to catch fire again?
02:54 < G-Flex> or will they never be able to catch fire again no matter how much fighting goes on there?
02:54 < G-Flex> i.e. does blood catching fire on a tile preventing any more blood from ever catching fire on that same tile?
02:55 <@due> I've no idea--why should it?
02:55 < G-Flex> well
02:55 < G-Flex> I think it might
02:55 < G-Flex> based on my own gameplay
02:56 < bmh> G-Flex: burn off the blood?
02:56 < G-Flex> well I don't think the bloodstains go away when burning
02:56 < G-Flex> I'll be able to say more for certain in a bit, when I'm not fighting spiders :P
03:01 < bmh> G-Flex: what I mean to say is that the power should remove the blood
03:04 < G-Flex> it should, yes
03:04 < G-Flex> I very much agree
03:04 < G-Flex> I'm not sure it does yet though as of current cao trunk
03:14 < G-Flex> yeah it currently does not destroy the blood
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04:40  * dpeg_ strikes Tolkien and Tolkeniests with lightning.
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04:44 < bhaak> tolkien's revenge is coming out on december 14th
04:47  * ghallberg is shocked
04:55 < dpeg_> bhaak: 2017?
05:04 < bhaak> dpeg_: no, sooner. be very afraid. next christmas 2012!
05:07 < dpeg_> bhaak: ah, Jackson's filming The Hobbit?
05:07 < dpeg_> milking the dead until she's dead, eh? :)
05:08 < ghallberg> The Hobbit should make a nice film though.
05:08 < ghallberg> I liked the first movie in the thrilogy, and Bilbo is a lot more like that than the rres of the serier.
05:08 < ghallberg> series*
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05:12 < bhaak> dpeg_: i don't know if you can say that. maybe only because they are making 2 movies out of 1 book :)
05:13 < bhaak> but i haven't read the hobbit yet. i want to wait until after the films.
05:13 < bhaak> i have read LOTR a while before the movies were in the making, this time i want to see how it is different the other way around
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06:00 < Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2858-gbf1390a
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10:37 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2858-gbf1390a (32)
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11:41 <+elliptic>  Boris gestures.
11:41 <+elliptic>  Boris speeds up.
11:41 <+elliptic> do we really need misleading messages like these?
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11:42 < jeanjacques> what was the action?
11:47 < G-Flex> I don't see what's misleading about that
11:47 < G-Flex> unless he isn't casting haste on himself
11:48 < jeanjacques> @??boris
11:48 < Gretell> Boris (L) | Speed: 10 | HD: 22 | Health: 154 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Damage: 25, 15(drain) | Flags: undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: magic(322), cold, elec++, poison, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 8380 | Sp: iron shot (3d37), b.cold (3d32), invisibility, animate dead, destruction orb (8d17).
11:50 <+elliptic> it was flavor text
11:51 <+elliptic> i.e. he wasn't actually casting a spell or anything
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11:53 < G-Flex> who wrote that
11:53 < G-Flex> I didn't know there was... fake spell flavor text
11:53 < G-Flex> that's incredibly misleading
11:55 <+elliptic> there's been misleading flavor text of this sort for a long time, actually
11:55 <+elliptic> I thought someone had recently gone through and removed/edited some of the worst of it, but I'm not sure
11:55 <+elliptic> the message appears in a different color, at least
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11:59 < G-Flex> elliptic, didn't syraine submit some of that
12:00 < G-Flex> I remember something about that recently
12:00 < G-Flex> pseudo-spell flavor text, at least
12:00 < G-Flex> but yeah I agree that anything that might be misleading like that should be removed
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12:02 < G-Flex> elliptic: by the way, I was talking about the Ds Ignite Blood mutation recently, more specifically: Shouldn't blood burning also destroy that tile's blood? It makes sense, and without doing that, there's a problem where once a tile gets bloody and on fire, no other blood spilling will cause fires on that tile
12:04 <+elliptic> it looks like this particular message has been around since at least 2007
12:04 <+elliptic> I don't know whether syraine's text contains anything misleading like this
12:05 < G-Flex> I don't either, I just seem to recall it being kind of spell-flavored in a similar vein. I could be wrong.
12:05 <+elliptic> G-Flex: I don't actually know much of anything about ignite blood or how it works, but that sounds reasonable... I'd suggest asking MarvinPA_ about it since he's the one who coded it
12:05 < G-Flex> thanks
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12:06 < G-Flex> this is my second demonspawn with it
12:06 < G-Flex> it's really fun and pretty powerful, especially if you get it early game
12:06 < G-Flex> the only annoyance with it, really, is that (in console) you can't tell visually where flame clouds are landing, at least not when they're on creatures/you, which they often are
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12:39 <+MarvinPA> hm, for ignite blood i'm not sure - it works by placing the flame cloud when the blood itself is placed
12:39 < G-Flex> but is blood placed if there's already blood on that tile? :P
12:39 < G-Flex> (seems like it's not)
12:39 <+MarvinPA> so if it also removed the blood, then you wouldn't get the cool blood-and-fire-everywhere
12:40 <+MarvinPA> it'd just be more like "ignite random stuff"
12:40 < G-Flex> yeah, but currently, one a tile is bloody it can't get bloodied again/its "newly bloodied" status doesn't ever refresh
12:40 < G-Flex> once*
12:40 <+MarvinPA> hm, right
12:40 < G-Flex> so a tile can only get flames once
12:40 < G-Flex> it's probably possible to just have it refresh the tiles status as not being burnt yet, however that works, but I wouldn't know
12:40 <+MarvinPA> i'll have a look in a bit, just off for dinner now
12:41 < G-Flex> thanks
12:46 < G-Flex> it might also be worth noting that using animate skeleton is hilarious when you have ignite blood, because the spell succeeding causes blood spatters that pretty easily kill the new skeleton
12:46 < G-Flex> that's not necessarily a problem, just amusing
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13:40 <+MarvinPA> hmm
13:41 <+MarvinPA> so it seems like you can get on top of branch entry mimics with a swap card
13:41 <+MarvinPA> and then enter that branch (possibly even if it's a mimic of a branch that wasn't supposed to generate in your game?)
13:43 <+MarvinPA> oh you don't even need swap, you can just cast controlled blink
13:43 <+MarvinPA> and get to places like snake:0
13:43 <+MarvinPA> this seems not good :/
13:43 < ghallberg> yeah...
13:43 < Zannick> whoa.
13:43 <+MarvinPA> and the upstairs on snake:0 leads to snake:-1
13:44 < G-Flex> does crawl have a minus world
13:44 < G-Flex> what are snake:0 and snake:-1 like
13:44 <+MarvinPA> like the rest of snake except they crash when you go upstairs on -1, apparently
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13:46 < G-Flex> quick, someone win a 16-rune game before that's fixed
13:47 < Zannick> good luck finding the right branch mimic
13:48 < ghallberg> So -1 works but -2 is broken?
13:49 <+MarvinPA> pretty sure they're all broken, just to varying degrees :P
13:49 < Zannick> what if you go down from 0 then up from 1?
13:50 < G-Flex> ha, giant spores "rest"
13:52 <+evilmike> lair is the best because it turns into the Land of Fungi
13:53 < Ragdoll> cblink eh
14:00 <+evilmike> so, what happens if you kite a branch mimic, let it go dormant or asleep or whatever, and then blink onto it
14:00 <+evilmike> if that doesnt work, maybe teleport it
14:01 <+MarvinPA> mimics don't hide again once you've revealed them, do they?
14:01 < Zannick> yeah, when you discover a mimic crawl actually places the monster
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14:05 <+evilmike> makes sense. I was wondering if perhaps they were like old item mimicks in that they could re-hide
14:07 < G-Flex> <evilmike> lair is the best because it turns into the Land of Fungi
14:07 < G-Flex> how so?
14:08 <+evilmike> exactly what it says. it populates the level with huge forests of fungi. no other enemies
14:08 < G-Flex> yeah, I'm curious why though
14:09 < G-Flex> does the monster list get messed up for some reason
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14:09 <+evilmike> i've never heard anyone explain why, never felt like figuring it out myself
14:09 <+evilmike> it's just one of those things where it breaks in a really interesting way
14:16 <+MarvinPA> also, i had a quick look at constriction again last night, looks like it needs a load of whitespace/tab-fixing and i have no idea how to do that automatically though
14:17 < CIA-112> MarvinPA * rdb7808baeac2 /crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Let Vehumet boost Olgreb's Toxic Radiance and Inner Flame
14:17 < CIA-112> MarvinPA * rb44d1828b484 /crawl-ref/source/cloud.cc: Let Fedhas protect plants from your clouds
14:17 < CIA-112> MarvinPA * r7699f9670da3 /crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/monspeak.txt mon-speak.cc): Remove some misleading fake monster spells and use of canned messages
14:18 <+evilmike> most decent text editors give you a tool for that. Usually something to convert tabs to spaces, and something to trim trailing whitespace
14:18 <+evilmike> there's probably an even easier way, some command line utility that does it
14:18 <+MarvinPA> right, i know there's some checkwhite utility that can get run on crawl commits somehow
14:19 <+MarvinPA> but no idea how to use it
14:20 <+evilmike> It's a perl script, looking at it
14:31 <+elliptic> it is easy to run in linux at least
14:31 <+MarvinPA> pffft linux
14:31 <+evilmike> I got it to run fine in mingw
14:31 <+MarvinPA> :(
14:31 <+evilmike> although it did something funny with replacing newlines in like every file
14:32 < CIA-112> evilmike * r7efa3892b8cb /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/hells.des: New Dis:7 map (st).
14:35 <+elliptic> marvinpa: anyway don't worry about the whitespace/tab stuff, someone will fix that once it is merged in
14:42 <+kilobyte> it should be mandatory to have the git hooks enabled
14:42 < Henzell> kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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14:44 < CIA-112> kilobyte * recf4f9817b8f /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/volcano.des: Remove an unused dragon from volcano_bunker.
14:44 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r3cc008cacfac /crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Revert "Makefile: Simplify art-data rules."
14:44 < CIA-112> kilobyte * re6903961c06c /crawl-ref/source/ (art-data.txt dat/des/portals/trove.des): Revert "Rename a few artefacts to accomodate the "the " prefix."
14:44 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r2cf0a246d741 /crawl-ref/source/art-data.txt: Give Wyrmbane a custom base type (lance).
14:44 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r36e7733ef688 /crawl-ref/source/art-data.txt: Decapitalize a couple of unrands.
14:44 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r90b5e0f82c24 /crawl-ref/source/kills.h: Hush an invalid Clang warning.
14:44 < bmh> kilobyte: an *unused* dragon?!
14:47 <+MarvinPA> okay, well it looks like i got it to work anyway
14:47 <+kilobyte> bmh: yeah, that vault has a few humans otherwise
14:47 <+kilobyte> MarvinPA: msys includes perl, a good part of git is written in it
14:48 <+kilobyte> Crawl needs perl to build, too
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14:50 < bmh> kilobyte: you wouldn't happen to have a copy of roguebasin lying around, would you?
14:55 <+kilobyte> not even exactly sure what you're talking about, so no
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15:07 <+kilobyte> MarvinPA: for Wyrmbane, what would be a good base dam and/or enchantment formula?  Was a spear (dam 6), is lance (dam 10); that may be too close to demon tridents (dam 12) or trishulas (dam 13) if we factor in the current enchantment cap of +18 after hunting hordes of high-end dragons.
15:08 <+kilobyte> I'm pretty sure it's too good now.
15:08 <+MarvinPA> hmm... i guess it takes a while to get it up to +18, but yeah, sounds like it'd be pretty strong once it gets there
15:09 <+elliptic> oh, when was wyrmbane changed to dam 10? I thought it was fine as a spear probably
15:09 <+kilobyte> the brand sucks ass (dragons are too rare, draconians hurt but most people dive in Zot anyway), but +18 does its thing
15:09 <+kilobyte> ??wyrmbane[2]
15:09 < Henzell> wyrmbane[2/2]: <MarvinPA> so yeah a +18 spear still probably sucks
15:10 <+MarvinPA> that was without having ever actually used it :P
15:10 <+MarvinPA> i still haven't found it in fact, but i think someone said it was pretty effective once they got it to a high enchantment
15:11 <+elliptic> minmay claimed it was pretty good, yes
15:11 <+kilobyte> ok, then dam 10 is way too good then
15:11 <+MarvinPA> maybe lowering the enchantment cap a bit would be good? since perhaps it's a bit annoying/fiddly to kill the right kinds of dragons to get it all the way to the cap anyway?
15:13 <+kilobyte> min(HD, 18)*⅔ ?
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r936792b0d52f /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Statue errors and asserts mantis 4932
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r25900a65a5d1 /crawl-ref/source/ (69 files in 15 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r27fef6b9721b /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Revert "Statue errors and asserts mantis 4932"
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r46275fbbcc79 /crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 9 dirs): Constriction part 1 - rename snakes
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rf1dbac5962ca /crawl-ref/source/ (13 files): Constriction part 2 -- status and duration
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * ra0abfc6cfbd5 /crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h main.cc monster.cc player.cc player.h tags.cc): constriction part 3 -- player escapes
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r233dc523b6ea /crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): constriction -- teleport and blink effects
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r90447f9e27ad /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h mon-data.h player.cc player.h): constriction - player attacks & some of monster
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rfc38730eef2a /crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Constriction nearly done
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rcfc78beeecd8 /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc tag-version.h tags.cc): Save compatibility
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rc7ce72d273b4 /crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/ability.txt melee_attack.cc): Merge branch 'master' of git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rd69f260f4a27 /crawl-ref/source/ (10 files): Merge branch 'master' of git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r6e0e71f9f54b /crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 9 dirs): Constriction part 1 - rename snakes
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * ra6149115368f /crawl-ref/source/ (13 files): Constriction part 2 -- status and duration
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rcf8eeed3d177 /crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h main.cc monster.cc player.cc player.h tags.cc): constriction part 3 -- player escapes
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r8696f0527161 /crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): constriction -- teleport and blink effects
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rf9b6f7dc9f24 /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h mon-data.h player.cc player.h): constriction - player attacks & some of monster
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r53ce2fe72ee9 /crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Constriction nearly done
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rd130ff64d805 /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc tag-version.h tags.cc): Save compatibility
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r6f39bf1914a8 /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Merge branch 'constriction' of gitorious.org:~bluedave/crawl/constriction into constriction
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r6f3b440e58dc /crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix missing spaces in escape messages
15:14 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r7c58e7b8a32a /crawl-ref/source/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl
15:14 < ghallberg> spam.
15:14 < CIA-112> (28 lines omitted)
15:17 < Zannick> thanks CIA
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15:38 <+kilobyte> so, should we rip out Terrence's spine?
15:39 <+elliptic> if you mean remove terence, I say no
15:39 <+kilobyte> I mean making him an 'x'
15:39 <+kilobyte> and letting him constrict folks
15:39 <+elliptic> but what about his armour
15:40 ۰۰-- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA
15:40 <+elliptic> I'd prefer to give constriction to someone a bit later, like maud
15:40 <+kilobyte> a cap and a shield might be enough
15:40 <+elliptic> or donald... he's already amphibious :P
15:40 <+kilobyte> Aizul
15:40 <+kilobyte> Donald is a quack :p
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15:48 < CIA-112> MarvinPA * rc8ea0eaae9b3 /crawl-ref/source/ (player.cc status.cc): Improve constriction messages, don't leak identity of invisible monsters
15:53 <+MarvinPA> would changing the name of invisible monsters from "it" to "something" break anything?
15:54 <+MarvinPA> it seems like "something" works a lot better grammar-wise, can't think of any case where it doesn't fit
15:55 < ghallberg> I agree.
15:55 <+MarvinPA> and is consistent with other messages from monsters you can't see because they're out of LOS, for example
15:56 <+kilobyte> in a number of cases I'd prefer "someone", but generally I agree with you
16:06 < blueDave> didn't expect the constriction merge to use my anti-spam email address, must have overlooked changing it somewhere
16:09 < blueDave> what's the preferred way of handling fixes now?  make my branch up to date and message someone to merge them?
16:10 <+MarvinPA> hm, gitorious merge requests into master would probably be easiest
16:10 <+MarvinPA> rather than maintaining a separate branch alongside master
16:10 < blueDave> which page is that done from, the master one or the constriction one?
16:10 <+MarvinPA> the master one, i think
16:10 < blueDave> or is it a different process?
16:11 <+MarvinPA> i'm not exactly sure how it's done, never used it myself
16:11 <+kilobyte> I'd say both variants are equivalent
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16:18 < blueDave> re: adding constriction to a unique, is there a standard philosophy on adding one vs buffing an existing one?
16:19 <+elliptic> was something done to speed up compile times recently? (recently meaning in the last couple of weeks)
16:19 <+evilmike> yeah, the uniques that get changed/removed tend to be the less... unique ones
16:19 <+MarvinPA> i'd be in favour of making a boring unique unboring
16:19 <+elliptic> since they seem a lot faster now for me... it is nice :)
16:20 <+evilmike> for example - a lot of uniques in crawl were once "orc wizard with a different name". A couple still have orc wizard spells
16:22 < CIA-112> elliptic * r30bc3cec5576 /crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Fix Useless spells being memorizable, tweak memorization chances.
16:23 <+elliptic> evilmike: blork and psyche, right?
16:23 <+evilmike> blork, psyche, michael, sigmund, jessica.. those are just off the top of my head
16:23 <+elliptic> jessica has pain
16:23 <+evilmike> there's a couple others I think. Sigmund still uses the orc wizard spellbook
16:23 <+elliptic> and michael doesn't exist
16:23 <+elliptic> I forgot about sigmund though
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16:24 <+evilmike> or I should say, an orc wizard spellbook. There are 3 or 4.
16:24 <+evilmike> and yeah, jessica has pain now. I just mean at one point, all those uniques used orc wizard spells, from what I recall
16:25 <+elliptic> right, I meant currently it is just blork and psyche and sigmund, I think
16:26 <+evilmike> maybe duane was also an orc wizard
16:26 <+elliptic> sigmund gets a scythe and gets to appear on D:2, psyche gets a chaos/distortion weapon and crazy speech, and blork gets... ?
16:26 <+elliptic> yeah
16:26 <+evilmike> blork gets nothing :P
16:27 <+elliptic> I guess he gets a good weapon relative to an orc wizard
16:27 <+elliptic> really though, he's probably my least favorite caster unique currently
16:28 <+evilmike> yes, very lame. The best thing about blork is really polymorphing.
16:28 <+evilmike> I love how you can get "blork the [anything]"
16:28 <+elliptic> for non-casters, I really think maud needs something
16:29 <+evilmike> any underused weapon brands on enemies?
16:29 <+elliptic> and some people dislike terence
16:29 <+elliptic> not sure constriction is really great on either of them though
16:29 <+evilmike> I dont mind terence, a bit boring though
16:29 <+kilobyte> Grinder isn't that interesting either, and he's a trap for those unspoiled
16:30 <+kilobyte> "leave if you're an EV char without allies"
16:30 <+elliptic> evilmike: antimagic is all I can think of
16:31 <+kilobyte> Sigmund is more interesting with reaching now.
16:31 <+elliptic> kilobyte: AC chars have it rough too, since most of his offense ignores that
16:31 <+elliptic> @??grinder
16:31 < Gretell> Grinder (5) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 40 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Damage: 11(pain) | Flags: demonic, evil, see invisible, !sil | Res: magic(24), cold++, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 322 | Sp: pain (d10), paralyse, blink.
16:31 < blueDave> maybe a relatively low level one as octo, and medium as a naga -- is there a naga unique?
16:31 <+elliptic> or maybe not, somehow I thought that 11 was lower
16:32 <+kilobyte> elliptic: pain ignores EV either, but you don't lose all of AC when paralyzed
16:32 <+kilobyte> blueDave: none but Aizul is close enough
16:33 <+elliptic> aizul is a really weird unique, even without constriction
16:33 <+elliptic> sleep, but then will wake you up with a conjuration instead of getting the stab melee bonus usually
16:34 <+evilmike> grinder might be more reasonable swith sleep instead of paralyse, probably a huge nerf
16:35 <+evilmike> although I am very anti-paralysis in general, I just dont like the effect
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16:40 <+kilobyte> (grepped my logs, looks like the idea of octopodizing Terence comes from Wensley who suggested it on three occasions)
16:41 <+elliptic> octopodizing terence and giving him an enchanted hat + shield could be fine, I'm not sure
16:41 <+kilobyte> I like that a lot...  I'm not insisting on that being Terence in particular, but changing one of early uniques would be good.
16:42 <+kilobyte> Edmund is themed as Sigmund's brother so he's out.  Jessica would need severe retheming.  Ijyb, Blork?
16:43 < Zannick> block the ock
16:44 <+evilmike> ijyb's theme is "might have a really dangerous wand"
16:44 < lorimer> also, dungeon is his
16:46 <+kilobyte> Blork is included in several vaults that rely on him being unable to swim / being an orc / being a humanoid.  In every case he's but one of alternatives, though.
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16:47 < Zannick> i think i'd rather see terence octopodized than blork
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17:12 <@dpeg> MarvinPA, blueDave: thank you so much!
17:14 <+|amethyst> the constriction merge looks... interesting... in gitg
17:15 <@dpeg> something wrong?
17:15 <@dpeg> the email has some repeated stuff, it seemed
17:17 <+|amethyst> something's weird about the various merge-from-master commits, as though it was rebased multiple times then those versions merged
17:18 <+|amethyst> so many of the commits appear multiple times
17:18 <@due> yo
17:19 <+|amethyst> and there are commits with titles like "Merge branch 'master' into constriction", both of whose parents are commits with similar titles
17:20 <+|amethyst> but I think that's more or less cosmetic
17:20 < blueDave> so apparently it kept all that history instead of just making one new commit with the current differences between the branches?
17:20 < blueDave> yeah, I was keeping current with master
17:20 <+|amethyst> that's what's weird
17:21 < blueDave> hopefully it didn't mess anything up
17:21 <+|amethyst> if something is titled "Merge branch 'master' into constriction", I would expect one of its parents to be on the master branch
17:21 <+|amethyst> I don't think anything is messed up, other than the history display
17:22 < blueDave> I used 'rebase' before realizing that would make it harder, and messier
17:22 < blueDave> will know for the future not to do it that way ;)
17:22 < blueDave> g2g
17:22 <+|amethyst> ah, no problem
17:22 <+|amethyst> thanks
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17:29 <+kilobyte> MarvinPA: with a merge tree that messy, I'd cherry-pick all relevant commits instead
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17:29 <+kilobyte> blueDave: "git rerere" can eliminate all merges but one
17:30 <+kilobyte> rebasing can eliminate them completely, too -- with some problems for published branches
17:41 <+|amethyst> ah, it looks like bluedave had in his private master branch a commit (and a revert of that commit) that weren't in the main repository
17:42 <+|amethyst> so the merges from his master and the merges from our master were merging different things
17:42 <+|amethyst> and, as he said, there was a rebase somewhere in the middle
17:43 <+|amethyst> gitorious's commit graph shows it better than gitg does
17:44 <+kilobyte> I'm kind of tempted to rewrite current master
17:46 <+|amethyst> I don't think that's a good idea, but if you're going to, better earlier than later
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17:57 <+|amethyst> a number of set-but-unused variable warnings when compiling without FULLDEBUG
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18:00 <+|amethyst> and probably the four copies of the constriction code can be merged into fewer
18:00 <+|amethyst> maybe two, maybe just one
18:01 <+|amethyst> but e.g. handle_player_constriction and handle_monster_constriction are almost identical
18:03 < bmh> |amethyst: code_unification++; :-D
18:03 <+|amethyst> likewise _do_noattack_constrictions vs handle_noattack_constrictions
18:03 <+|amethyst> I guess the no-attack vs attack cases are sufficiently different to keep separate
18:04 <+|amethyst> I might look into that, but I don't have time right now
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19:06 <+kilobyte> ok, the mess is mostly untangled
19:06 <@dpeg> <3
19:06 <+kilobyte> would cause massive problems with bisecting later
19:07 <+kilobyte> sorry guys, but please reset --hard gs/master and cherry-pick your work onto it, if you've made a commit that's not pushed yet...
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rc3b3062d0af6 /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h mon-data.h player.cc player.h): constriction - player attacks & some of monster
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r926a279a912d /crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): constriction -- teleport and blink effects
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r567229035b02 /crawl-ref/source/ (13 files): Constriction part 2 -- status and duration
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * ra0dac7692082 /crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 9 dirs): Constriction part 1 - rename snakes
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r341645f43088 /crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Constriction nearly done
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r7400dddb3848 /crawl-ref/source/ (tag-version.h tags.cc): Save compatibility
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r2d93ed69ad7f /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Tweaks to calculations
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r427d79ed5a2e /crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Fix missing spaces in escape messages
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rbe88b18ef174 /crawl-ref/source/ (7 files): constrict w/o attack, more transloc effects
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rfa486a151fe5 /crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h mon-stuff.cc): Fix some teleport/blink stuff
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r2fb5cd46ccdc /crawl-ref/source/ (melee_attack.cc mon-act.cc): Fix monster constricing player
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * rc7b643040052 /crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h: Increased ball python size, anaconda gets a bite
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r9186878ed6bb /crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc mon-info.cc mon-info.h player.cc): Add constriction status to x CTRL-x @
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r5d75d47677a1 /crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Fix some compiler warnings
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r3d0db2f9f6a6 /crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Added / fixed constriction status messages.
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r7e8915cbd027 /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc mon-data.h mon-stuff.cc): Assert on constricted monster swap,< anaconda bite
19:07 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r570a689e7032 /crawl-ref/source/ (18 files): Whitespace fixes.
19:07 < CIA-112> kilobyte * r53de47d6470c /crawl-ref/source/ (37 files in 9 dirs): Merge branch 'constriction'
19:07 <@dpeg> kilobyte: perhaps say that in an empty commit or a c-r-d mail again=
19:07 < CIA-112> elliptic * r01f4677d2775 /crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc: Fix Useless spells being memorizable, tweak memorization chances.
19:07 < CIA-112> dshackspam * r452b982f5abe /crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h main.cc monster.cc player.cc player.h tags.cc): constriction part 3 -- player escapes
19:07 <+kilobyte> there were 49 bogus commits with wrong ancestry that mostly didn't compile
19:10 <@due> What happened?
19:10 <@due> Bad merge?
19:11 < BlastHardcheese> crawl is ruined now, time to play doomrl
19:11 < Zannick> crawlrl
19:11 < Zannick> i think i just have stuff stashed...
19:12 <+kilobyte> if you have things stashed, all is ok
19:12  * due stashes Zannick in the freezer.
19:12 <@due> s/freezer/ozocubu's refrigerator/
19:13 < Zannick> :o
19:13 < Zannick> ssssssssoooooo cooooooollllllllld
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19:55 <+kilobyte> holy crap... how come no one reviewed the constriction code?
19:57 < HangedMan> what're the problems in it?
19:58 <+kilobyte> uglier than hell.  Buggy.  Slows the game by a lot.  Eats gobs of memory.  Uses constructs we have mostly laboriously eradicated from the rest of the code.
19:58 < blueDave> that's why I was asking for someone to look at it :(
19:59 < blueDave> if you have specifics I'll gladly take any criticism
20:00 <+kilobyte> yeah, too late now :(
20:00 <+kilobyte> in a good part my fault too
20:00 <+kilobyte> I've been (and still am) sick with high fever, and my own Crawl projects are lagging
20:01 < blueDave> I still have 10 days off work, so can clean up if you point me in the right direction
20:01 <+kilobyte> it's partially due to a lack of documentation I guess
20:02 <+kilobyte> like, there's no place that describes why using mindex() for anything that lasts more than a turn is bad
20:09 <@due> delicious mindex
20:15 <+kilobyte> also, mons.moveto() is a low-level function that probably shouldn't be exposed outside; there are some checks that would have to be done
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20:26 < BlastHardcheese> I don't usually test my code, but when I do I do it in production
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22:07 < blueDave> hmm, I pulled and it says I'm ahead of origin/master by 72 commits
22:07 < BlastHardcheese> congratulations, you've just invented time travel
22:07 < HangedMan> now you must abuse it
22:07 <+|amethyst> blueDave:  kilobyte reset HEAD
22:08 < blueDave> what does that actually mean though?
22:08 < BlastHardcheese> you can use it to go ahead to 2115 and bring back nethack 3.5
22:09 <+|amethyst> it means that HEAD is no longer a descendant of the commits that MarvinPA made
22:10 <+|amethyst> you'll have to do  git reset --hard origin/master    but that will lose any uncommitted work
22:10 <+|amethyst> (and committed but unpushed work will have to be cherry-picked or rebased onto the new HEAD)
22:10 < blueDave> so if I have none, I just enter that command and my local is in sync correctly?
22:11 <+|amethyst> yes... you might need to git pull after that, not sure
22:18 < blueDave> ah, that fixed up the graphical view a lot
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22:59 <+|amethyst> blueDave:  so I've merged handle_player_constriction and handle_monster_constriction into one method, but I need to do some testing before pushing it
22:59 < blueDave> player and monster use different calculations, is that covered?
22:59 < blueDave> that's the reason it was separate
23:00 <+|amethyst> yes
23:00 < blueDave> that's professional experience -- make it work, then make it nice ;)
23:00 <+|amethyst> I went through line-by-line, and where the code was different, added an if (attacker->atype() == ACT_PLAYER)
23:01 < blueDave> it would have helped to have a bible though, kilobyte found some stuff that had been improved a while ago lol
23:01 < blueDave> but not knowing it, I made some mistakes of the past again
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23:02 <+|amethyst> what differed was: octopode detection (->type vs ->species), to-hit calc (and dprf), damage calc, how to announce the hit, and the _monster_die stuff at the end
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23:40 <+|amethyst> blueDave:   Your octopode constricts Fred! Fred struggles to escape constriction.
23:40 <+|amethyst> _'Fred' has same energy as last loop
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23:45 <+|amethyst> that one is because that case doesn't call mons->lose_energy()
23:46 <+|amethyst> not sure if it should use EUT_MOVE or what, though
23:46 < blueDave> I wasn't sure about that
23:46 <+|amethyst> EUT_MOVE is better than nothing :)
23:47 < blueDave> makes sense that it should consume energy, but it didn't seem to make a difference in play
23:48 < blueDave> saw a comment earlier about "4 copies" -- needed the no-attack separate because you get constriction damage even doing something else like casting
23:49 < blueDave> was thinking of pulling the damage to a proc and calling from attack and no-attack, sound reasonable?
23:49 <+|amethyst> yeah
23:50 < blueDave> kilobyte mentioned using too much memory, not sure where
23:52 <+|amethyst> 9 shorts and 10 ints per actor, even if it's not an octopode
23:54 <+|amethyst> not sure what the best way to avoid that is
23:54 <+|amethyst> making it a dynamic vector would probably take just as much, if not more, memory
23:55 < blueDave> and cycles to reference it too
23:57 < blueDave> props entries, but again the cycles to check it cost a lot
23:58 < blueDave> but I'll admit I'm not thinking space at all, my work project weighs in at 1.5 GB of ram
--- Log closed Thu Dec 22 00:00:14 2011