--- Log opened Mon Dec 19 00:00:09 2011
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00:52 < bmh> hey dev -- can anyone suggest reading for using ncurses sanely?
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01:01 < Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2833-gf82d76d (32)
01:07 < Zannick> bmh: other than the dsm iv? ;)
01:08 < bmh> Zannick: I hate you :-P
01:08 < bmh> Zannick: did a1k0n invite you to lunch?
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01:10 < Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2833-gf82d76d
01:10 < bmh> Zannick: speaking of lacking sanity. Now that the AI Challenge is over. I've embarked on writing a Roguelike in Haskell.
01:11 < Zannick> brilliant
01:11 < Zannick> bmh: it's not on my calendar yet. i'll check again tomorrow
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01:16 < bmh> Zannick: think dwarf fortress meets crawl in haskell -- what could possibly go wrong?
01:17 < Zannick> bmh: sounds like fun
01:17 < Zannick> bmh: in the df sense of the word, of course
01:17 < bmh> losing is fun!
01:17 < Zannick> writing haskell is fun!
01:17 < bmh> are you volunteering? ;-D
01:18 < Zannick> (disclaimer: i am not a haskeller. this is not haskell advice.)
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01:45 <+Napkin> pardon? "Mantis doesn't want to send email"? :-O
01:46 <+Napkin> moin guys
01:46 < bmh> hey Napkin
01:46 <+Napkin> hey bmh! how's it going? :)
01:47 <+Napkin> need...
01:47 <+Napkin> !coffee
01:47  * Henzell hands Napkin a mug of soy latte, brewed by Jiyva.
01:47 < bmh> swell. I'm a couple of time zones further west this time around
01:49 <+Napkin> christmas holidays, i hope?!
01:51 < bmh> flying to the east coast of the US in a couple of days
01:51 <+Napkin> :)
01:55 < bmh> I decided to embark on a fool's quest of rolling a roguelike/dwarf fortress in haskell
01:55 <+Napkin> i read :D
01:55  * elderman is away: 
01:55 <+Napkin> enjoy!
01:56 <+Napkin> who gave you that idea? :D
01:56 < bmh> The friend who introduced me to crawl two'ish years ago. He's always wanted to write 'meta-crawl' in haskell
01:58 <+Napkin> are there any existing roguelikes written in haskell out there already?
01:59 < bmh> I don't think there are any 'real' ones.
02:01 < bmh> (which isn't to say that a real one will exist if and when I'm done)
02:01 <+Napkin> hehe
02:03 <+Napkin> i don't remember much about haskell from when i learned it shortly at the university.. like 6 years ago.. just that the syntax was highly weird in my opinion ;)
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02:59 < st_> evilmike: elliptic: can you look at this for me? (new Dis map) http://pastebin.com/kKtVNQF9
03:01 <+elliptic> I only have time for a 30-second reaction right now, and it is that it looks far harder to ninja than the existing maps (probably not a bad thing)
03:06 < st_> I always find it tricky to know how much weight to give speedruns/ninjas 
03:06 < st_> I've no sympathy for XL27 chars who ninja, but SpEn allrune speedruns etc should be possible
03:07 < st_> (in general, not related to this map in particular)
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05:36 < moxian> is it normal for arena to mess the text like this http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2391/arenatext.png ?
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06:00 < Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2833-gf82d76d
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07:27 <@dpeg> A forum thread has a complaint about harpies: they can lead you to tedious food-stashing on another level. Their proposal was to remove food destruction; my proposal is to make harpies more dangerous if you don't carry food. Ideas?
07:27 <@dpeg> Myself, I never bothered much about the harpies; I've never dropped food.
07:28 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r04ccb9345ab1 /crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (process_handler.py static/scripts/client.js): Fix the 0.9 compatibility mode in the Webtiles server.
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07:54 < CIA-54> edlothiol * re98f3e1859cc /crawl-ref/source/command.cc: Show the highlevel book warning in descriptions in console builds.
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08:10 < moxian> Is there any point of coloring (un)rand books as such (i.e. bright-white)? I mean, (un)rand weapon and armour has interesting properties not found on their mundane counterparts. But books.. what can (un)rand book offer apart from spells, found in mundane ones? What's the point of telling the (unspoiled) player that the current book is "special" in this way? What would be lost with remove of special-coloring?
08:11 < st_> you mean in shops?
08:11 < moxian> yes
08:11 < moxian> aren't they colored such in inventory? 
08:11 < st_> no, though I have custom item colours that may be conflicting
08:12 < jeanjacques> i dont think any books but the "high-level" ones are coloured in the inventory
08:12 < jeanjacques> the only real gameplay difference: jellies dont eat randart books
08:12 < moxian> yes, just checked - they are not colored in inventoiry indeed
08:13 < moxian> okay, what about removing coloring from shops?
08:13 < st_> in shops it's relevant in that they are the books you will be most interested in examining
08:13 < moxian> no, i won't
08:13 < moxian> i'm more interested in mundane books actually, becasue they tend to have spells in a more.. organized manner
08:14 < jeanjacques> if you are unspoiled you want to examine any book in any case
08:15 < st_> well they are only coloured when you switch to examine mode, you have no idea of the spells inside apart from examining unlike normal books
08:17 < moxian> well, I'm still not convienced
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08:24 < moxian> like, if I'm unspoiled, I don't have a strong idea about the book contents, basing on its name. And the unrands being marked bright-white suggests that they are 'better', when they are not.
08:24 < moxian> And if I'm spoiled, I could probably distinguish mundane names from unrand names on sight pretty fast, and the coloring won't help much. Actually it only confuses me, because when browsing a single book shop, every time my eyes meet bright-white book, I think "wait, why is it bright? Ah, it seems it is randart, ok"
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08:24 < moxian> sorry, i mess up randarts and unrandarts sometimes
08:25 < st_> do you dislike other artefacts being coloured white also?
08:26 < moxian> no
08:26 < moxian> because they have {Str+1} which instantly explains the reason for doing so
08:27 < moxian> while browsing books, i have too keep in my mind all the spells that are in those books, and i don't need that coloring, and it only distracts from what i'm doing (chosing wht *spells* to buy)
08:28 < moxian> btw, can we make a custom-book shop?
08:28 <@dpeg> moxian: yes!
08:28 <@dpeg> and if it's good, it'll go in in no time
08:29 < moxian> dpeg: i.e. we need someone to code this?
08:29 <@dpeg> moxian: no, the code is already there
08:30 < moxian> so, what are we waiting for?
08:30 <@dpeg> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:shop_info
08:32 <@dpeg> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:item_info#randart_spell_books
08:32 < moxian> er, no, I meant something different: You come to shop, the shop sells *spells*, you chose 2-5 from those, and the shopkeeper gives you the books with those spells
08:32 <@dpeg> moxian: for someone with a concept and some spare time
08:32 <@dpeg> moxian: ah, that's not possible atm
08:37 <@dpeg> not sure it's a good idea though -- you'd buy single spell books mostly
08:38 < moxian> yep, you're right
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08:51 <@dpeg> !seen thasero
08:51 < Henzell> Sorry dpeg, I haven't seen thasero.
08:51 <@dpeg> !seen mumra
08:51 < Henzell> I last saw mumra at Wed Dec  7 18:08:40 2011 UTC (1w 4d 19h 42m 56s ago) parting ##crawl with message chanpart.
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09:17 <+evilmike> st_: I'm going to take a look at the dis map now. Looks cool on first glance. Also, don't worry about ninjas too much, in my opinion. It shouldn't be absurdly hard for them, but overall I'd say design the map for normal players and then worry about speedrunners later
09:21 <@dpeg> yes
09:22 <+elliptic> the current dis maps are ludicrously easy to ninja, anyway
09:22 <+elliptic> you can just run past everything
09:23 <+evilmike> heh yeah
09:23 <+evilmike> I got about half way through trying to make a dis ending, my solution to that was quicksilver dragons
09:23 <+elliptic> ouch
09:23 <+evilmike> not like, hordes of them or anything, just enough for a ranged threat
09:24 <@dpeg> evilmike, elliptic: what do you think about the harpies idea?
09:24 <+elliptic> harpies idea?
09:24 <@dpeg> A forum thread has a complaint about harpies: they can lead you to tedious food-stashing on another level. Their proposal was to remove food destruction; my proposal is to make harpies more dangerous if you don't carry food. Ideas?
09:25 <+evilmike> dpeg: I don't think harpies should be more dangerous, myself. Shoals is the most dangerous of the lair roulette, and I worry about it being too hard. Harpies are already quite dangerous
09:25 <+elliptic> food-stashing isn't a problem IMO
09:25 <+evilmike> I find harpies food stealing annoying, but not in a way that's harmful to gameplay
09:25 <+evilmike> more like "arrrrgh" annoying rather than "this should be removed"
09:25 <+elliptic> I do it occasionally, but unless you want to travel around with no food (a risky idea), you can't do it all the time
09:26 <@dpeg> would you say that mummy curse potion destruction was a problem?
09:26 <+elliptic> harpies are really, really fast after all
09:26 <+evilmike> dpeg: mummies were different because retreating was almost always possible, and dropping potions in front of them was never hard (they are fairly weak past the early game)
09:26 <+elliptic> it was a problem, but that was because mummies were complete non-threats and the potion destruction was easily avoided (summons or dropping)
09:26 <+evilmike> harpies dont let you do this quite as easily
09:26 <@dpeg> so my proposal would be:  if you don't carry food, harpies are as dangerous as now; if you do carry food, they're less dangerous (but can steal the food, of course)
09:26 <+elliptic> yeah
09:27 <@dpeg> the forum thread talks about leaving all food on the old level before entering a new one
09:27 <+evilmike> That would be better than making them more dangerous.. but I'm not sure if it's necessary, still
09:27 <@dpeg> (I never do such things, of course)
09:27 <+elliptic> leaving all food on the old level comes at a high price
09:27 <+evilmike> yeah, leaving food on the previous level is something I do as well, if I happen to find a lot of permafood in shoals
09:27 <+evilmike> otherwise I just don't bring much permafood to shoals
09:27 <@dpeg> evilmike: yes, I meant "I meant more dangerous when you're foodless" not "more dangerous a monster than now"
09:28 <+elliptic> get abyssed with no food? big trouble. need to take a quick bite in a dangerous situation? nope
09:28 <@dpeg> yes, I guess the whole question is if we want to de-incentivise (is that a word?) that behaviour
09:30 <+evilmike> I think the best way to do that would be to pair them with a threat that makes you more hungry (although as elliptic points out, abyssing and normal food requirements already fit this)
09:30 <+evilmike> "add hungry ghosts to shoals" isn't an option though :P
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09:32 <+elliptic> dpeg: actually, it occurs to me that there is a big problem with your suggestion -- people who currently drop all their permafood will just drop all their permafood except for those 14 sultanas
09:33 <+elliptic> since nobody cares about losing a few sultanas :)
09:33 <+evilmike> st_: with your dis map, one thing I'm thinking I'd do in it is go for the rune, and then controlled teleport to the loot room on the other side. Don't know if this is a problem, but it means the bottom half is easily skippable since there's never a reason to go there first
09:33 <+evilmike> unless you're just doing dis for loot, for some reason
09:33 < st_> yes I thought of that, but I noticed that the fiends always opened the doors
09:33 < st_> it seems like anyway
09:34 < st_> could remove the doors
09:34 <@dpeg> elliptic: oh, I am aware of this... didn't want to clutter this space with details (the harpies would be carnivorous)
09:37 <+evilmike> there are also _a lot_ of iron trolls in the middle part. This could work though... "slow tank" monsters are usually boring, but in hell they actually might work for slowing you down
09:38 <+elliptic> dpeg: so then you have spriggans bringing meat rations to shoals to feed to the harpies?
09:39 < st_> yeah I had a lot less at first and then I added a lot more and didn't bother to scale it much
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09:41 <+evilmike> Maybe add loot to the buildings that go along the east edge of the upper section. No real reason to go inside those now. Could randomly place a few * items in a few buildings
09:41 <+evilmike> that's not too important though
09:42 < st_> I thought about that also, not too sure
09:43 < st_> I'd rather just remove the doors
09:43 <+evilmike> that could work too
09:44 < st_> I don't think it's much of a problem if there's empty space, current Dis:7s have half of the level the player never goes into
09:45 <+evilmike> My worry is that if you have a guaranteed dead end in a vault like this, experienced players will know to never go there
09:45 <+evilmike> putting some small reward (or even a chance of a reward) helps that
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09:48 < st_> I don't want players to feel they have to check every last nook incase there's a nice item they could have missed
09:49 <+evilmike> good point
09:51 <+Zaba> autoexplore does that for them anyway, no? :P
09:51 < st_> people generally don't do that in hell though
09:51 <+Zaba> ah
09:56 <+evilmike> dpeg: if you want to make harpies food stealing have an effect, how about this: when a harpy steals food, it becomes "satiated" for n turns depending on the nutrition of the food stolen. Turning neutral won't work, and fleeing would just make new problems, but maybe they could just attack less often or do less damage for the duration
09:56 <+evilmike> this doesn't fix the "spriggan carrying meat rations" problem though. But I think it's better than harpies just doing less damage if you have food on you
09:57 <@dpeg> interesting
09:57 <+evilmike> I'd still rather just change nothing though
09:57 <@dpeg> ok!
09:58 <@dpeg> and leave me to broadcast this to the disgruntled playerbase :)
10:02 < alefury> i dont think a lot of people actually care about this
10:03 < alefury> so i doubt they would be very disgruntled
10:04 <@dpeg> alefury: probably. But if it's a thread in "game design", I feel obliged to reply in some way. And if food dropping was the best solution (like potion dropping used to be against mummies) -- which it isn't --, then we'd have to react
10:04 < alefury> i always carry a bit of food, even into shoals
10:04 <@dpeg> The player is always disgruntled! =)
10:04 < alefury> because not doing that is stupid, for reasons elliptic pointed out
10:04 < alefury> so food stealing is relevant and interesting, so it stays
10:04 <@dpeg> yes
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10:06 < alefury> although i tend to carry the bare minimum of food (2-3 rations and some fruits) anyway, no matter if im in shoals or not, for carrying capacity reasons
10:07 < alefury> so for me harpies dont really change anything
10:07 <@dpeg> I do it like this
10:07 <@dpeg> away for a while
10:15 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2835-ge98f3e1 (32)
11:57 < blueDave> !seen marvinpa
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12:16 < CIA-54> dolorous * rad02f9301906 /crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Fix HP scaling in downgrade_zombie_to_skeleton().
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12:55 <@dpeg> blueDave: pushing for constriction? :)
12:56 <@dpeg> me too, me too
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14:35 < blueDave> dpeg: I know enough now to just do it, but doubt you'd want to let me yet after the MD tantrum lol
15:05 <@dpeg> blueDave: as far as I understand, the patch is good and ready. Just needs a little time. Perhaps everyone is busy getting presents?
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15:08 <+MarvinPA> blueDave: dpeg: sorry, kept getting distracted from crawl stuff but give me a while and i'll look into constriction again this evening :)
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15:13 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: yes, I never worried :)
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15:33 < Henzell> m1nced the Thaumaturge (L9 DEIE)  (D:8)
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16:38  * SamB wishes we could somehow do away with rltiles/Makefile ...
16:40 < Zannick> if we got rid of rltiles... >.>
16:43 <+SamB> Zannick: that's not what I meant!
16:43 <+SamB> I know!
16:43 <+SamB> we could rewrite it in perl ;-P
16:45 < Zannick> i'm sure there are better ways for us to hurt ourselves
16:45 <+SamB> then, we won't need to have any rules for building C++ code to run on the host!
16:46 <+SamB> and we could also toss my slightly iffy replacement for MSVCRTs unquestionably broken tmpfile()
16:48 < bhaak> if you want pain, you want m4 configuration files
16:49 <+SamB> well, I would have said Python, but that's kinda tricky to involve in Windows builds ...
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17:14 < CIA-54> evilmike * r07631f3cdc1c /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Fix erik_lair_boring.
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17:40 < CIA-54> evilmike * rb204edd26ab9 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Fix minmay_lair_oklob_tunnel, de-spoil erik_lair_dragon.
17:40 < CIA-54> evilmike * ra9e1bca27705 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des: Give more hints for lair:8 vault secrets.
17:50 < CIA-54> evilmike * rad45530a77d2 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des: Give a hint in weyrava_lich_vault.
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17:52 < alefury> erik_lair_boring
17:52 < alefury> the best vault name?
17:52 < CIA-54> evilmike * r17ac64589fa0 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/crypt.des: Remove the CHANCE: 100% line left in by mistake in the previous commit.
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17:52 <+evilmike> pretty good name. I wonder how long it was broken for
17:52 <+evilmike> probably for several versions
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18:17 <+kilobyte> SamB: have you looked at the race condition introduced by 1b058691?
18:18 <+kilobyte> if not, let's just revert that commit
18:18 <+kilobyte> it also causes the files to be generated twice, unnecesarily
18:18 <+SamB> kilobyte: that chapter seems to be missing from my (make.info)
18:19 <+SamB> so, I guess you can just revert it
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18:20 <+SamB> kilobyte: oh, have you thought about format string checking for your new regime?
18:21 <+kilobyte> not sure what do you mean
18:22 <+SamB> I'm not sure how we could put the grammatical information in format strings without (a) implementing our *own* printf-like facility and (b) losing GCC's printf type warnings
18:24 <+kilobyte> I don't see what the problem would be...  grammar functions would be written inline so there's no need to use anything that printf can't check.
18:24 <+SamB> hmm?
18:25 <+kilobyte> from the talk before, I guess you may think monsters/etc are passed as C++ objects
18:25 <+SamB> (is there like a wiki page for this or something?)
18:25 <+kilobyte> I don't see what that would give us... strings are almost as good
18:25 <+kilobyte> a woefully incomplete one
18:26 <+SamB> someone other than you *did* refer to the idea of passing monsters/etc. to mprf, yeah
18:27 <+SamB> changing tacks, how exactly *is* a string good enough?
18:28 <+kilobyte> C++ doesn't allow you to pass objects to varargs functions at all
18:28 <+SamB> kilobyte: yes, I mentioned that
18:28 <+SamB> pointers were mentioned
18:28 <+kilobyte> I mean, grammar functions would know a monster as "the royal jelly" rather than MONS_ROYAL_JELLY
18:29 <@due> my grammar wqouldn't know that! ;)
18:29 <+kilobyte> we have functions like mons_pronoun() that have a table of male/female monsters
18:30 <+SamB> kilobyte: tight on RAM as I am, I don't use -j myself ...
18:30  * SamB switches back to talking about the race condition
18:30 <+kilobyte> which can be done by a string for an infinitessimally small CPU loss
18:31 < Gretell> Corvin (L15 FeWr) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 104: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (40,26) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef))
18:31 <+kilobyte> (infinitessimally, since grammar is bounded by the amount of messages printed to the screen)
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18:32 <+kilobyte> rltiles are still built even in targets like 'make clean'
18:32  * SamB gets distracted by wondering how the heck to do gender agreement this way
18:33 <+SamB> kilobyte: I did not do that
18:33 <+SamB> did I?
18:33 <+kilobyte> but then, the whole makefile is a disaster
18:33 <+SamB> well, maybe I did?
18:33 <+kilobyte> this particular one might be my fault... not sure
18:33 <+SamB> I can't see how merging those could be related, though
18:34 <+kilobyte> with gems like "make debug" not allowing to do a debug build for just a single file (without a commandline several lines long), I think there's no hope fixing the makefile
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18:35 <+SamB> I'm quite annoyed that I there doesn't seem to be any way to prevent make from entering rltiles twice *whenever* anything has changed in the main sources
18:35 <+SamB> s/I //
18:36 <+kilobyte> even if this particular bug can be hacked around, just look at this gem:
18:36 <+kilobyte> ifeq (,$(findstring clean,$(MAKECMDGOALS)))
18:36 <+kilobyte> ifeq (,$(findstring test,$(MAKECMDGOALS)))
18:36 <+kilobyte> ifeq (,$(filter %-windows,$(MAKECMDGOALS)))
18:36 <+SamB> kilobyte: I know
18:36 <+kilobyte> so I propose: let's nuke the makefile from the orbit, that's the only way to be sure
18:37 <+SamB> at some point I was thinking of replacing the "findstring" calls with "filter" calls
18:37 <+SamB> kilobyte: first, we have to figure out how to un-nuke the contribs' actual makefiles ...
18:37 <+kilobyte> uhm... what's wrong there is the check being opt-out rather than opt-in
18:37 <+SamB> kilobyte: oh, that
18:38 <+kilobyte> all of contribs did have proper makefiles, but they have been lobotomized
18:38 <+SamB> yeah, I guess I should have noticed the absense of the "n"
18:38 <+SamB> kilobyte: I know!
18:38 <+kilobyte> mostly a matter of using pristine upstream sources
18:38  * SamB hasn't a clue how to manipulate git submodules
18:41 <+kilobyte> you enter the submodule dir, do whatever changes you want, commit/checkout/reset/etc, then go back and "git add" (or commit -a)
18:41 <+kilobyte> which will use whatever the current HEAD of the submodule is
18:42 <+SamB> does that also decapitate the submodule again?
18:42 <+kilobyte> it looks like submodules are made with string and twine, so there's a number of caveats
18:43 <+kilobyte> I used "lobotomize" in the meaning of their makefiles' contents
18:43 <+SamB> I know
18:43 <+kilobyte> ie, they don't have any feature checks anymore
18:44 <+SamB> my "decapitate" refers to the "detached HEAD" that I am given to understand submodules normally have
18:44 <+SamB> I am not certain if it's actually a pun or not, but it definitely has pun-like qualities
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18:45 <+evilmike> I'm getting an unusual crash bug: start a priest, go into pan, generate the holy pan level (give it a high weight to make this easier), go into the next level, and then abandon your god. This is crashing the game for me
18:46 <+SamB> evilmike: what, pan doesn't ask wizards which pan they want to generate?
18:46 <+evilmike> it just generates levels like any other branch in wizard mode
18:46 <+evilmike> it only asks you what level you want for portal vaults
18:47 <+kilobyte> SamB: I'm afraid I'm not that certain how to manipulate submodules either
18:47  * SamB doesn't know how pan works
18:47 <+kilobyte> I do have a feeling it's because they're made with string and twine, but it might be merely my own ignorance
18:47 <+evilmike> also, this god abandonment thing isn't just for zin, I just realized. I got it to happen with trog too. Also I have no idea if it's even pan related or holy pan related
18:47 <+evilmike> I'll put the crash log on pastebin, it doesn't look too helpful though
18:48 <+kilobyte> pan, like all other non-LEVEL_DUNGEON branches, is a mess
18:49 <+evilmike> http://pastebin.com/mT1r4vxV
18:49 <+evilmike> I've been able to reproduce this several times now, doesn't seem to matter which god you use
18:51  * SamB can't find pan in the menu
18:52 <+evilmike> &p
18:52 <+evilmike> on further testing this doesn't seem to be related to the holy pan level, I just noticed it when testing that vault
18:55 <+SamB> evilmike: well, what *does* it relate to?
18:55 <+evilmike> travel through a couple pan levels then abandon your god
18:55 <+evilmike> that's how I'm getting it to crash. I don't know why it's crashing
18:57 <+kilobyte> hah, fixed in the portal_branches branch already :p
18:57 <+kilobyte> (or rather, doesn't apply)
18:58 <+kilobyte> I'll return when lev is 0, should stop the crash for now
18:58 <+SamB> hmm, we really ought to be putting that last copy of the assert message *in* the crash dump file rather than printing it immediately before opening the file ...
18:58 <+evilmike> current strategy: if you are in trouble in pan, just abandon your god :P
18:59 <+evilmike> time travel
18:59 <+kilobyte> not sure when this could have broken, though
18:59 <+|amethyst> I have a backtrace, moment
19:00 <+|amethyst> it crashed for me the moment I abandoned
19:00 <+evilmike> yeah
19:00 <+kilobyte> wasn't assert, it's a segfault
19:00 <+|amethyst> this was shortly after trying &W, which didn't crash
19:01 <+|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/pan-abandon-crash.txt
19:02 <+|amethyst> query_da_counter
19:02 <+kilobyte> crashes in 0.9, too
19:04 <+kilobyte> ... and 0.8
19:05 <+SamB> kilobyte: yeah, well, we should probably include THAT information, too
19:05 <+SamB> unless we have some way of detecting that SIGABRT was invoked specifically to run the crash dumper...
19:07 <+kilobyte> it's SIGSEGV here
19:09 <+|amethyst> lev is null
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19:18 <+|amethyst> when you use the stairs, the cached level data goes away, since pan_travel_interlevel() == false in pan
19:19 <+kilobyte> yeah
19:20 <+|amethyst> hm
19:20 <+kilobyte> grhmdammit, we really should make db rebuild threaded
19:20 <+kilobyte> when bisecting -- there's ~40 seconds compilation, ~15 seconds db build
19:21 <+kilobyte> all is on distinct sources and targets, could be done in parallel
19:24 <+kilobyte> only tile builds have -pthread... any idea how that works on Windows?
19:25 <+kilobyte> correction: tile builds if pkg-config is available
19:25 <+|amethyst> probably one of the libraries is linked against pthreads
19:26 <+kilobyte> yeah
19:31 <+SamB> we have pthreads on Windows?!?
19:32 <+SamB> ah, no, don't
19:32 <+kilobyte> mingw guys were talking about merging it in, IIRC
19:33 <+SamB> into what ?
19:33 <+kilobyte> into mingw
19:34 <+SamB> ... that doesn't sound very minimal ...
19:34 <+kilobyte> looks like old versions don't have pthreads though so that's moot though
19:35  * SamB was under the impression that mingw was actually an import library for MSVCRT.DLL which renamed some of the symbols
19:35 <+kilobyte> they seem to have changed the aim from being merely a set of win32 headers
19:36 <+SamB> (to remove underscorse, basically)
19:38 <+kilobyte> Wikipedia says: MinGW (Minimalist GNU for Windows), formerly mingw32, is a native software port of the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC) and GNU Binutils
19:40 <+SamB> kilobyte: in common usage, it is
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19:41 <+SamB> but THAT could hardly be the thing into which pthreads would be merged ...
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19:55 <+kilobyte> there's a massive libgcc and libstdc++
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20:02 <+|amethyst> okay, I have a fix
20:04 <+|amethyst> but gitorious seems to be lagging
20:04 <+|amethyst> s/lagging/down/
20:14 <+|amethyst> seems to be working again
20:14 <+|amethyst> pushed
20:16 <+kilobyte> ugh... that's wrong
20:16 <+|amethyst> oh?
20:16 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r9f5f635f0bf2 /crawl-ref/source/travel.cc: Do not crash when updated delayed actions in Pan.
20:16 <+kilobyte> and I already said it's fixed on the level_type branch...
20:16 <+|amethyst> oh, I missed that :(
20:16 <+kilobyte> the level_info should never be missing -- if it is, we should assert immediately
20:18 <+|amethyst> so how's it supposed to be put there?
20:19 <+|amethyst> ensure something calls get_level_info() upon reaching a new level?
20:20 <+kilobyte> it's created appropriately, but then, moving between Pan level destroys this info
20:20 <+|amethyst> but it should be removed and recreated, right?
20:20 <+|amethyst> so that you don't keep exclusions from the previous pan level
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20:20 <+kilobyte> yeah, but it's deleted at a wrong time
20:21 <+kilobyte> still, your commit stops the crash so people won't abuse this bug
20:21 <+SamB> did anyone make any progress with the "G< doesn't always work right" issue?
20:22 <+kilobyte> I'll revert it and replace with an assertion only on the branch
20:23 <+|amethyst> where does it get erased in the branch?
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20:24 <+kilobyte> when you leave the level... currently, it's buggy when it's a portal vault or you use &~, but that's why we're not merging yet...
20:25 <+kilobyte> in trunk, most levels get deleted when you try to _enter_ them again
20:26 <+kilobyte> "./crawl --edit-save NAME ls" shows all such levels exist when they shouldn't
20:26 <+|amethyst> oh, and in the branch two levels of pan have different level_ids ?
20:27 <+|amethyst> the code is currently  travel_cache.erase_level_info(old_level);
20:27 <+|amethyst> the problem is old_level and new_level_id are the same
20:28 <+|amethyst> (that is to say, (BRANCH_MAIN_DUNGEON, 27, LEVEL_PANDEMONIUM)  where 27 is the level from which you entered)
20:29 <+kilobyte> I keep it as (BRANCH_PANDEMONIUM, 1) so it's the same level_id, but there's an explicit "delete level" step
20:30 <+kilobyte> current trunk code fails whenever you're going to visit the same level again
20:30 <+kilobyte> for example, if you go to the Abyss or a Ziggurat
20:32 <+|amethyst> in branch portal_branches I see the erase_level_info() call in the same place in stairs.cc
20:32 <+kilobyte> that's an ancient version
20:33 <+|amethyst> ah
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20:33 <+|amethyst> that explains my confusion :)
20:36 <+|amethyst> probably then most of the calls to get_level_info, except for the one that's supposed to be responsible for creating the entry, should use find_level_info and an assert
20:36 <+|amethyst> or get_level_info should have the assert and there should be a separate init_level_info
20:38 <+kilobyte> sounds like a better idea, yeah
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20:47 < tobiasjs> Hi. Is someone able to remind me what the make flags used for building the OSX nightlies are? I've forgotten :(
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20:51 < moxian> If it is Mac, you can try 'make mac-app-tiles' or 'make mac-app-console'. Never built it myself, but it should work
20:52 < tobiasjs> nope, it needs more than that, it seems.
20:55 <+|amethyst> tobiasjs:  greatzebu would be the person to ask, but it looks like he's not here atm
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20:56 < tobiasjs> |amethyst: yeah, he told me on 8/12, but the tozt.net logs don't cover that day.
20:57 <+|amethyst> 11:02 < greatzebu> it might help to know that the osx nightlies are compiled using "make -j4 APPLE_GCC=y EXTRA_FLAGS='-DWIZARD' TILES=y NO_PKGCONFIG=y CONTRIB_SDL=y mac-app-tiles"
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20:58 < tobiasjs> |amethyst: awesome, thanks a lot!
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22:24 < CIA-54> evilmike * r5a4fa6c22bdf /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/abyss.des: Grate-ify hangedman_macabre_mess.
22:30 < CIA-54> dolorous * r5edc8a43bfbe /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-info.cc mon-info.h): Fix regressions regarding dual-wielding and no-regeneration of undead.
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23:18 < CIA-54> evilmike * r89ae88f77927 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/abyss.des: Make the macabre masses in hangedman_macabre_mass hd:2 or hd:3 (random).
23:18 < CIA-54> evilmike * ra118662755f2 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des: Veto the holy pan level if you are with a good god.
23:22 ۰۰-- HangedMan [63e6725f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.230.114.95] has joined ##crawl-dev
23:23 < HangedMan> @??serpent of hell
23:23 < Gretell> Serpent of Hell (D) | Speed: 14 | HD: 20 | Health: 101-140 | AC/EV: 12/9 | Damage: 35, 15, 15 | Flags: demonic, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: magic(346), hellfire, fire+++, poison, drown, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 10779 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), fire breath (3d40).
23:23 < HangedMan> seperate rHellfire and rF+++ listing? this gretell or something silly in the definition of the serpent of hell? 
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23:26 <+|amethyst> hm
23:26 <+|amethyst> _serpent_of_hell_resists includes both
23:27 < HangedMan> oddly redundant
23:33 <+|amethyst> also, tartarus serpent gets rRot
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23:38 < HangedMan> something worth fixing?
23:40 <+|amethyst> yeah, though maybe tar and dis serpent should get some resists
23:40 < HangedMan> maybe more ac for dis, since it's supposed to be an iron dragon?
23:41 < HangedMan> not sure about tar, though
23:41 <+evilmike> it's not supposed to be an iron dragon
23:41 <+|amethyst> it's more of a quicksilver
23:41 < HangedMan> demonic iron dragon
23:41 <+|amethyst> but with an iron dragon corpse
23:41 < HangedMan> @??quicksilver dragon
23:41 < Gretell> quicksilver dragon (D) | Speed: 15 | HD: 16 | Health: 68-116 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 25, 20 | Flags: sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: magic(149), drown | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 3546 | Sp: b.quicksilver (3d20).
23:41 <+evilmike> think of it like this: it's the same monster, just with a different flavour
23:42 < HangedMan> more ev? *shrug*
23:42 <+|amethyst> @??serpent_of_hell soh_flavour:dis
23:42 < Gretell> Serpent of Hell (D) | Speed: 14 | HD: 20 | Health: 101-140 | AC/EV: 12/9 | Damage: 35, 15, 15 | Flags: demonic, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: magic(346), poison, drown, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 8982 | Sp: metal splinters (3d32), b.quicksilver (3d20).
23:42 <+evilmike> it's like an ugly thing - changes colour, but it's not a different monster
23:43 <+|amethyst> @??serpent_of_hell soh_flavour:tar
23:43 < Gretell> Serpent of Hell (D) | Speed: 14 | HD: 20 | Health: 101-140 | AC/EV: 12/9 | Damage: 35, 15, 15 | Flags: demonic, evil, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: magic(346), poison, drown, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 10009 | Sp: b.draining (3d24), miasma (3d15).
23:43 <+|amethyst> @??serpent_of_hell soh_flavour:coc
23:43 < Gretell> Serpent of Hell (D) | Speed: 14 | HD: 20 | Health: 101-140 | AC/EV: 12/9 | Damage: 35, 15, 15 | Flags: demonic, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: magic(346), cold+++, poison, drown, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 8982 | Sp: freezing cloud (2d30), cold breath (3d40).
23:43 <+|amethyst> yay inscrutable XP
23:45 <+|amethyst> I get that it's based on spell level
23:46 <+|amethyst> but Dis SOH has a 5 and a 5, while Coc has a 6 and a 5, yet they're the same XP
23:46 <+|amethyst> is it based on the average or something?
23:48 <+|amethyst> oh, it's just a list of a few spells that get XP bumps
--- Log closed Tue Dec 20 00:00:11 2011