--- Log opened Wed Dec 14 00:00:03 2011
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00:50 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r5028f93cb17c /crawl-ref/source/shout.cc: Fix doubled articles in artifact weapons speech.
00:53 <+|amethyst> hm, that could use some more work I guess.... "The +7,+7 Singing Sword compares you unfavourable to its previous owner."
00:53 <+|amethyst> s/ble/bly/
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00:55 <+kilobyte> why would it include the enchantment?
00:56 <+|amethyst> Because I changed it to use item.name(DESC_THE) instead of "The " + item.name(DESC_BASENAME)
00:57 <+|amethyst> I really don't want to add DESC_THE_BASENAME and so on
00:57 <+|amethyst> turning it into a bitfield would make the most sense, but that's a pretty major overhaul
00:58 <+kilobyte> quite an amount of extra spam, I'd say
00:58 <+kilobyte> DESC_THE is on its way out anyway
00:58 <+|amethyst> oh?
00:59 <+|amethyst> I guess I could use DESC_BASENAME and special-case the articles, but that's ugly
00:59 <+kilobyte> meant to be moved into mprf() since it's a language dependant transformation
01:00 <+kilobyte> would be better, I'd say
01:01 <+|amethyst> how would you tell mprf() which to use?
01:01 <+|amethyst> there's no way you can do it automatically and get it right
01:01 <+kilobyte> also, "the cursed +7,+7 Singing Sword", etc
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01:02 <+kilobyte> at least there's no "blessed fixed greased thoroughly rotten thoroughly rusted +7 Singing Sword"
01:02 <+|amethyst> heh
01:03 < Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2733-g5028f93 (32)
01:15 <+|amethyst> looks like DESC_BASENAME should just not get that "the"
01:16 <+kilobyte> yeah, it makes no sense
01:17 <+|amethyst> also DESC_QUALNAME
01:18 < Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2733-g5028f93
01:36 < CIA-54> |amethyst * rec467cb834b8 /crawl-ref/source/ (itemname.cc shout.cc): Fix excess "the"s more generally.
01:36 <+|amethyst> There we go
01:37 <+|amethyst> Ultimately I'd rather see a collection of flags expressing more high-level grammatical concepts
01:38 <+|amethyst> DESC_NOMINATIVE | DESC_DEFINITE | DESC_PLURAL | DESC_BASENAME
01:39 <+|amethyst> with some abbreviations of course :)
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01:45 <+|amethyst> or---I think I see what you're saying now--- mprf("{noun nom def plural} says, \"Hi!\"", item.name(DESC_DEFINITE))
01:47 <+|amethyst> so in an ergative language you could translate that string as "{noun abs def plural} foo, \"Bar!\""
01:49 <+|amethyst> (probably %s{blah} really, to preserve printf type-checking)
01:50 <+|amethyst> (and to allow things like "%2$s" if word order changes)
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02:32 <+SamB> I don't see how that can work
02:33 <+SamB> Isn't it too late by the time mprf happens?
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02:39 <+|amethyst> yeah, you'd have to pass around the object (or something with a pointer to the object) instead of a string
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02:55 <+SamB> |amethyst: did you know C++ doesn't like it when you try to pass objects to varargs functions?
02:56 <+SamB> (also, GCC's printf-format checking can clearly not work with such a scheme...)
03:00 <+|amethyst> yeah, the interface would have to change a lot... or you could be evil and cast object pointers to char*
03:09 <+SamB> object pointers would work fine, of course
03:10 <+SamB> it's just that objects can't because of complications with things like copy constructors ...
03:11 <+|amethyst> aha
03:12 <+SamB> this kitten is kind of annoying at times ...
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03:36 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r1bf7e38895e3 /crawl-ref/source/ (abl-show.cc mutation-data.h mutation.cc): Display fake mutation suppression, and fix naga spit poison.
03:40 <+|amethyst> that's it for me... good night, and tell the kitten I said "meow"
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04:34 < CIA-54> kilobyte * r81a932ab1fd9 /crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Don't let enslaved soul of Nergalle to use Death's Door.
04:34 < CIA-54> kilobyte * rd5a93c807e89 /crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Disable death and delays during fsim.
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06:00 < Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2737-gd5a93c8
06:02 <+kilobyte> getting slow 2 (from existing 1), slowheal and -1 int from a single yaktaur with a wand of poly other really makes me implement hostile polymorph for that wand :)
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06:04 <+kilobyte> dpeg: meow
06:04 < alefury> i like how in crawl being horribly disfigured is not nearly as bad a slight limp
06:04 <+kilobyte> (repeating my line from 20 seconds ago:)
06:04 <+kilobyte> getting slow 2 (from existing 1), slowheal and -1 int from a single yaktaur with a wand of poly other really makes me implement hostile polymorph for that wand what would you say about a bunch of bad transformations for 0.11, and splitting Polymorph Other from Malmutate?
06:06 <@dpeg> Hi kilobyte!
06:06 <+kilobyte> there's pig form already, we could add, say, porcupine (no spells, near no melee, passive spines), treeman (good AC, -TELE, roots), jelly (slow, 0 EV, great hp to let you survive), etc
06:07 <+kilobyte> roots as in "no movement"
06:07 <@dpeg> kilobyte: sounds good
06:09 <+kilobyte> seeing a neqoxec is an instant warning -- in this case I'd turn into a lich, or on a non-Tm wear rMut, rather than proceeding to autofight into the popcorn yaktaur as a dragon
06:10 <@dpeg> kilobyte: we give them the /poly so that you finally start appreciating the ?fog :P
06:10 <+kilobyte> (or on a character with none of those at least backpedal, not letting the neqoxec to cast once)
06:11 <+kilobyte> yeah, but to read it you need to know of the danger first
06:13 <@dpeg> kilobyte: yes, it's true
06:16 <+kilobyte> ok, enough whining and planning 0.11
06:19 <+kilobyte> 0.10: my plans for the next couple of days: portal_branches merge (ugh, lots of work left), maybe Dwarf (could be polished/balanced during the freeze, or removed outright if it sucks), shillelagh buff, what with staves?
06:20 <+kilobyte> Dwarf monsters had several improvements recently, could work well enough. I did some work on the vaults but there's still no builder -- I'm thinking about subvaultizing it instead.
06:21 <+kilobyte> ie, instead of a regular builder, the map could be made from recursive subvaults for the same effect
06:21 <@dpeg> kilobyte: sounds good for a start -- do you want one level, or a whole branch?
06:22 <@dpeg> kilobyte: you're fine with constriction in 0.10, if I understand correctly?
06:22 <@dpeg> Also, it seems the demigodly ship has sailed, for 0.10 at least :(
06:22 <+kilobyte> one level of course, following the changes I made half a year ago
06:22 <@dpeg> good!
06:22 <+kilobyte> yeah :(
06:23 <@dpeg> there is content but I cannot track it down, and I won't have time until mid-January anyway :|
06:23 <+kilobyte> constriction would be great, it needs a period of time for a balance though, that's why I'm arguing for a long freeze before branching
06:23 <@dpeg> yes, we're trying to lobby Marvin into the branching
06:24 <+kilobyte> you mean, merging? or...?
06:24 <@dpeg> I am in contact with galehar, btw. He is very busy but he will be back, though probably not as active as he was.
06:24 <@dpeg> yes, merging
06:24 <@dpeg> Testing behooves to our good players =)
06:25 <@dpeg> galehar follows development and congratulates on catching a good fish like |amethyst :)
06:25 <+kilobyte> if we go with the long feature freeze plan, it'd make sense to toss Dwarf onto the departing 0.10 train
06:25 <+kilobyte> if not, there's no hurry, it's nothing important
06:26 <+kilobyte> I won't have time to do all of this and the holy pan level though :(
06:26 <@dpeg> it is good to have some candy for players, with each new release
06:26 <@dpeg> what's left to do for holy pan level?
06:26 <@dpeg> can we outsource?
06:26 <+kilobyte> yeah, Spider/hellspider, translations and shit from me, other goodies from the rest of the team... 0.11 has no shortages of material
06:27 <+kilobyte> of course!
06:27 <+kilobyte> I have a bunch of concept subvaults... my plan was to have it like other Pan lords, except with the map being completely devoid of demons
06:27 <+kilobyte> and with all loot being held by holies
06:28 <@dpeg> good -- I think that our vault masters would be willing to come up with content, as long as its clear what the concept should be
06:29 <+kilobyte> obscene non-artefact armour (fire dragon armour ego:magic_resistance, pearl dragon armour good_item), top-end non-artefact weapons (holy scourges, blessed great sword ego:flaming, etc), cure mutation on a Zinnite...
06:29 <@dpeg> yes, that's a plan
06:30 <@dpeg> I'll be absent for a while in a few minutes, can someone ask Mu and evilmike (and who else has been spotted assembling maps) if they'd roll with that?
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06:30 <+kilobyte> sure, can ask them
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07:06 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r6feda7a9be59 /crawl-ref/source/ (tiledgnbuf.cc tiledoll.cc tilepick-p.cc): Fix monster weapons not showing when the player's weapon is melded (#5038).
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07:14 <+edlothiol> Napkin: Chrome 16 is out and we don't currently support it on Webtiles -- could you do a tornado upgrade?
07:14 <+edlothiol> at least, the Websocket standard is now final
07:15 <+Napkin> let's do it now, i predict to be busy today
07:16 <+edlothiol> ok
07:16 <+Napkin> currently i'm using your master branch
07:16 <+Napkin> is it ok to use that one?
07:16 <+edlothiol> yeah, just pull from that
07:16 <+kilobyte> "The lava burns you!! You manage to scramble free!" -- omgwtfwhew
07:16 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: your patches are not yet merged upstream, right?
07:17 <+Napkin> ok, done - please verify
07:17 <+edlothiol> Napkin: works, thanks!
07:17 <+Napkin> great, thank you too :)
07:17 <+Napkin> back to work o/
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07:17 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: most of them are, just one that isn't strictly necessary (to make HTTP connections time out) isn't
07:19 <+edlothiol> but that reminds me to get that one in too
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07:23 <+kilobyte> also, looking at regressions if USE_TILE is defined, it's mostly about delay()
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07:29 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: hmm, what about delay()? in my superficial testing, it worked so far
07:31 <+edlothiol> although I notice bolt drawing was bugged
07:31 <+kilobyte> there's #ifndef USE_TILE before it everywhere, at least
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07:43 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: everywhere may have been a bit of an exaggeration ;) why are these delays disabled in tiles anyway?
07:44 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r7da5dc6a3d3a /crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc godprayer.cc spl-damage.cc): Fix a few delay() calls being disabled in Webtiles.
07:44 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r740a58486c1f /crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Fix console bolt drawing with USE_TILE_WEB enabled.
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07:45 <+kilobyte> a load of other #ifdef USE_TILE stanzas refer to menus, etc
07:46 <+kilobyte> idea: what about s/USE_TILE/USE_TILE_ANY/ to make it greppable?
07:47 <+Napkin> +1
07:47 <+kilobyte> doh, like every single case matches USE_TILE$
07:47 <+edlothiol> yeah, good idea (although grep "USE_TILE$" works too)
07:48 <+edlothiol> ;)
07:49 <+kilobyte> only eight cases where it doesn't
07:50 <+kilobyte> one is #if !defined(USE_TILE) where #ifndef would do, the others are #if defined(TARGET_OS_WINDOWS) || defined(USE_TILE)
07:53 <+edlothiol> the latter should be USE_TILE_LOCAL anyway
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07:55 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: webtiles are not going to be supported on Windows anytime soon, right?
07:55 <+kilobyte> (no easy redirection of console, etc)
07:57 <+edlothiol> yeah
08:18 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: uhm, in beam.cc, shouldn't the beam be drawn both onto the tile socket and the console?
08:34 < CIA-54> edlothiol * rf52f5c131079 /crawl-ref/source/ (16 files): Fix a few more console/webtiles discrepancies and USE_TILE where it should be USE_TILE_LOCAL.
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08:40 <+kilobyte> too bad, Ctrl-L targetting doesn't work in webtiles
08:40 <+kilobyte> completely no idea how to solve that, though
08:41 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: the beam tile is added, but the beam glyph won't show up in webtiles glyph mode, if that's what you mean
08:42 <+edlothiol> ctrl-L should work now in webtiles-enabled console, for the web client I'll have to implement it yet
08:43 <+kilobyte> actually implementing this would work, yeah
08:43 <+kilobyte> I was thinking more about how to deal with help display like this
08:44 <+edlothiol> ah, yeah... I was thinking about adding tags similar to the colors, e.g. , ,
08:45 <+edlothiol> so the help display could be different in the console and in the webtiles client
08:46 <+edlothiol> and it would simplify a lot of the hints, which are littered with #ifdef USE_TILE
08:47 <+kilobyte> how can I check if it's a real webtiles game vs a webtiles-but-console one?
08:48 <+kilobyte> is there even a difference?
08:49 <+kilobyte> I mean, is the Crawl process called differently, or merely one of outputs goes to /dev/null?
08:50 <+edlothiol> you could check tiles.has_receivers(), but when we implement watching DGL from webtiles, that will not work anymore
08:52 <+kilobyte> hrm, right
08:54 <+edlothiol> for the aforementioned tags, there would basically be functions that print just to the console / just send to the webtiles client
08:54 <+kilobyte> I went through "git grep -A10 'USE_TILE$'", and it appears regressions are left only in four files
08:55 <+kilobyte> command.cc and hints.cc: help text (doable by such tags)
08:55 <+kilobyte> hints.cc has a weird cgotoxy(1,1) and mouse disabled in getch_ck() -- I guess these can be removed
08:56 <+kilobyte> the two other ones are hiscores.cc and l_crawl.cc -- both want to know whether it's a tiles game
08:57 <+kilobyte> for logging/milestones, and to answer lua
08:59 <+kilobyte> lua seems to be used only by a help string (in the description of closed door), and extensively in hints
08:59 <+kilobyte> er, tutorial
09:00 <+edlothiol> oh, yeah, the tiles logfile entry, I forgot about that one... I guess the server would have to tell the crawl process that it's controlled by a web client for that to make sense
09:03 <+edlothiol> of course, with glyph mode, this becomes even more complicated (although who will play the tutorial in glyph mode?)
09:04 <+kilobyte> well, let's wait for Unicode 6.0 to get more widespread, we can move even console to images by then :p
09:05 <+kilobyte> (the Unicode consortium is crazy for declaring things like "kitten", "ghost", "japanese ogre" or "pile of shit" to be "letters")
09:07 <+edlothiol> we'd just need a font which actually has these ;)
09:08 <+kilobyte> the one I'm using tends to spill to the next character :(
09:09 < G-Flex> kilobyte: well obviously calling them "letters" is a bit daft
09:09 <+kilobyte> it's a bit tempting to run fontforge and shoehorn them into a fixed width boundary box
09:10 <+kilobyte> although I'm waiting to see if someone else does that work :p
09:11 <+kilobyte> G-Flex: symbols then... having them in Unicode is pretty brow-raising, though
09:11 < G-Flex> kilobyte: why? I mean, why say that before trying to find out why they are included
09:11 <+kilobyte> but if someone wants to abuse them, roguelike games are pretty close to the front :)
09:11 < G-Flex> I'm pretty sure some languages use glyphs like that in signage and such fairly often
09:11 < G-Flex> unicode has a lot of stuff like that
09:11 < G-Flex> common symbols, that sort of thing
09:12 <+kilobyte> the motivation is known: phones popular in Japan use random collections of symbols you can put in SMS messages
09:13 <+kilobyte> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji
09:13 < G-Flex> yep
09:13 < G-Flex> unicode is meant to be pretty inclusive!
09:13 < G-Flex> those seem pretty common and standard and used within/as text, so it's sensible enough
09:14 < G-Flex> I don't think I have a font with any of them though
09:14 < G-Flex> the entire table is just boxes of numerical codepoints
09:14 <+kilobyte> G-Flex: for you, hah!
09:14 < G-Flex> I have fonts for most things! not sure what's up with that
09:15 <+kilobyte> ttf-ancient-fonts in Debian (for pretty weird reasons)
09:15 <+kilobyte> in unstable and testing only, though
09:16 <+edlothiol> I've got 4 of them...
09:17 < G-Flex> I have a few in the lists below the table
09:17 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: unicode 6.0 fonts? oh, gimme, gimme!
09:17 <+kilobyte> (the Debian one is at http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/)
09:18 <+kilobyte> in Windows, to install a new font, run Control Panel|Fonts (probably well-hidden in Vista/7 ...), then drag the font to that pseudo-directory
09:19 < G-Flex> I love how, at least in XP, the "install fonts" dialogue box (through the fonts folder) is like
09:19 < G-Flex> one of those bizarre Win3.x holdovers
09:19 < G-Flex> with the old-old-old-style directory browser and buttons
09:19 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: oh, no, I meant 4 of the letters ;)
09:20 < CIA-54> kilobyte * r5f7fb6871ba3 /crawl-ref/source/ (AppHdr.h libw32c.cc stuff.cc viewchar.cc): Fail Windows webtiles builds with a descriptive error.
09:20 < CIA-54> kilobyte * r49bbf3296986 /crawl-ref/source/hints.cc: Get rid of another console vs console-in-webtiles discrepancy.
09:22 <+kilobyte> there's one big zip file, the interesting font is Symbola.ttf
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09:23 <+kilobyte> never hurts to install them all, though, unless you can't spare 28MB of disk space
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09:28 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r6948da42db75 /crawl-ref/source/ (hiscores.cc tileweb.cc tileweb.h webserver/connection.py): Webtiles: Tell the crawl process if it is being controlled from the web client.
09:29 < Eronarn> 'wear lots of rings' is the best octopode advice
09:29 < alefury> "dont die"
09:29 < alefury> although i suppose thats not octopode specific
09:30 < Eronarn> As previously mentioned,
09:30 < Eronarn> use lots of rings. It might even be worth the risk to wear them all, as
09:30 < Eronarn> the only thing really harmful is probably cursed hunger.
09:30 < alefury> the second part refers to unided rings
09:31 <+kilobyte> fire, ice, teleport
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09:31 < Eronarn> negative EV
09:31 < G-Flex> cursed tele and -3 protection rings: not considered harmful
09:31 < alefury> most of the harmful ones autoid at least
09:31 < G-Flex> yeah
09:31 < G-Flex> not that it matters much if they're cursed
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09:36 <+kilobyte> IIRC there's a ~2/3 chance a non-autoid cursed ring is hunger
09:36 < G-Flex> does that include the possibility that a good ring can be cursed? (I think they can, at least)
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09:39 <+kilobyte> yeah
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10:10 < CIA-54> |amethyst * rcc5fa749cd5b /crawl-ref/source/ (itemname.cc mutation.cc travel.cc): Whitespace fixes.
10:13 < alefury> kilobyte: should pda really be on a holy pan level / used by holy enemies? id expect anything produced by killing and skinning a pearl dragon to be strongly disliked by the good gods.
10:13 < G-Flex> that's a pretty good point
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10:16 <+|amethyst> Are dragons immortal? If not, maybe a pearl dragon bequeathed it on its deathbed
10:16 <+|amethyst> "I'm not going to be using this"
10:16 < G-Flex> still seems a little creepy
10:16 < alefury> heh. organ donor dragon :)
10:19 < G-Flex> |amethyst: to be fair, even if they aren't immortal they can still fall in battle
10:19 < G-Flex> or die via industrial accidents!
10:19 < G-Flex> pearl dragon crushed by a forklift
10:20 <+|amethyst> To contextualise the creepiness, call them "relics"
10:22 <+edlothiol> or maybe they shed their skin, like snakes
10:22 <+edlothiol> (or rather, their scales)
10:23 <+kilobyte> or switch gods to Okawaru, scum him for gifts, then go back to TSO :p
10:23 < G-Flex> I assumed the hide/armour contained the whole hide, though
10:23 <+|amethyst> ha, that could even explain why you find dragon armours on D:1 sometimes: the dragons go to safer places to molt, since they will be without benefit of scales for a while
10:24 < G-Flex> yes
10:24 < G-Flex> if a really amazing armour spawns in early D, can a kobold or whatever pick it up and use it?
10:24 <+kilobyte> G-Flex: of course!
10:24 < G-Flex> like they do with weapons
10:24 < G-Flex> heh
10:25 <+kilobyte> beware of GDA-clad kobolds with demon whips of distortion!
10:26 < G-Flex> speaking of which
10:26 < CIA-54> |amethyst * rdc3ddd63a962 /crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Coding style fixes: braces to their own line.
10:26 < G-Flex> do monsters suffer from weapon delay?
10:26 < alefury> somewhat, but i dont know the rules
10:26 <+kilobyte> the issue you raised is valid, though: even though Pan is a front line and lots of pearl dragons die, good gods currently disallow desecrating their corpses
10:27 <+kilobyte> G-Flex: delay >10 yes, delay <10 no
10:27 < alefury> well, its not desecration if they carry an organ donor card :P
10:30 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2744-g6948da4 (32)
10:32 < Xiberia> "This Pearl Dragon is an organ donor. Butcher its corpse?"
10:58 <+elliptic> |amethyst: the mutation display looks a bit weird on a ghoul or mummy now, since forms are irrelevant for them
11:00 <+elliptic> |amethyst: also, I'm not sure the "() : Partially suppressed." and "(()): Completely suppressed." lines should be displayed if no mutation is actually being suppressed
11:00 <+|amethyst> good points
11:01 <+|amethyst> what about hungry vampires? should they still have the '*' annotations?
11:02 <+|amethyst> I don't have time right now, could you file a bug report so I don't forget?
11:03 <+elliptic> I'm not sure about the * annotations are really necessary in general... players can go into forms and see which mutations are suppressed then
11:03 <+elliptic> okay
11:05 <+|amethyst> Hm... I like the idea of seeing in advance which mutations aren't as reliable. I guess it doesn't (and probably can't reasonably) tell you *which* forms they conflict with, though
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11:08 <+|amethyst> there are also some weird cases regarding rough black/rugged brown scales (stat and HP changes do not depend on forms), and most scale 2 mutations for statues (since e.g. molten scales are purely AC before level 3, they should show as completely suppressed for statues unless you have level 3)
11:09 <+|amethyst> (the problem with r.b. scales isn't that stat and HP changes do not depend on forms, but rather that they're shown as "completely suppressed" for non-staues when they're really only partially suppressed)
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12:29 < alefury> |amethyst: i think the % screen shouldnt show supressed mutations at all. it should show all the currently active mutation effects and nothing else. % is an overview of current char state, no need to show what might have been. 'A' can provide all the details.
12:31 < Eronarn> agree with alefury
12:31 <+SamB> yeah
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12:44 <+SamB> |amethyst: I think namespace really fits in the same class as extern "C" ...
12:44 <+SamB> i.e., no newline needed prior to the brace
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12:45 <+SamB> also, worley isn't from here
12:46 <+SamB> |amethyst: er, I mean, cellular.{cc,h}
12:53 <+SamB> |amethyst: hmm, the source seems to disagree re: namespaces :-(
12:54 <+SamB> but I still think we shouldn't be messing with cellular.{cc,h} for mere style issues...
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13:06 <+kilobyte> elliptic: any advice for balancing the shillelagh? I gathered some fsim data (using fsim from ucc merge^, as it's currently broken), but not sure how to proceed.
13:07 <+kilobyte> generally, the base damage from a +2,+4 club is ~5 times smaller than regular high-end weapons (biggest difference is *7.1 at mindelay, it lowers as skill approaches 27)
13:08 <+elliptic> I forget exactly how it works... radius 1 low-power shatter on any hit that does damage? any hit regardless of whether it does damage?
13:09 <+kilobyte> special damage can't be directly compared since it is affected by AC twice, but roughly speaking, the non-proportional factor disappears at AC 11 (flyer AC 3.66)
13:09 <+kilobyte> currently, any hit on the first target, including 0 damage ones, but not misses
13:09 <+kilobyte> damage is X*d(5+power/3)-d(AC)
13:10 <+kilobyte> X=3 for typical monsters, 1 for flyers, 0 for ghostlies, 5 for skeletons
13:11 <+kilobyte> at the point where +5 disappears (ie, AC 11 regular), it's effectively 50% base damage, in the same formula that has vorpal 12.5%, flaming 25%, holy wrath 75%
13:12 <+kilobyte> except that the special damage is applied to everyone nearby, not just the target
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13:13 <+kilobyte> options: 1. increasing the power (but by how much), 2. messing with base damage (doesn't need to be exactly a club -- we can change enchantment or base damage)
13:13 <+elliptic> so the power is equal to the damage done by the club currently?
13:14 <+kilobyte> yeah
13:14 <+kilobyte> MarvinPA_: input from you would be great, too. doy's log page is down, http://sprunge.us/ATAG
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13:17 <+elliptic> kilobyte: I'd suggest increasing the enchantment on the club (+4,+8, say) and also increasing power (say, 1.5*dam)... but I just made those numbers up :)
13:18 <+elliptic> or alternatively changing the base damage would also be fine, since I guess that is easy nowadays
13:22 <+elliptic> if you want to actually balance it against typical high-end weapons (I assume this means demon whip and double sword and such), I'd work on the assumption that the shatter will affect two monsters
13:22 <+elliptic> i.e. what it would do in corridors
13:26 <+kilobyte> as in, to make the damage to two non-flyers equal to damage a demon whip does against a single opponent, right?
13:26 <+elliptic> yeah
13:26 <+kilobyte> sounds good, would rock against big crowds but suck heavily against flyers
13:27 <+elliptic> a high-end demon whip even (say, +8 freezing against non-rC+)
13:27 <+elliptic> right, it is good if the weapon is extremely strong in the best-case scenario (big crowds of non-flyers) and still usable against single enemies
13:28 <+kilobyte> changing enchantment to +4,+8 means the damage is now 1/3.7 of a +9 demon's whip
13:29 <+kilobyte> current shatter formula means +100% against two non-flying opponents
13:30 <+elliptic> I'd tend to increase that 50% in the current formula to at least 75%
13:30 <+elliptic> but that still wouldn't be enough, hm
13:30 <+kilobyte> with 50%, the total damage is 1.85 times too small
13:31 <+elliptic> maybe increase base damage to whatever would make it 1/2.5 of the demon whip and change pow = dam to pow = 1.5*dam
13:34 <+kilobyte> a +4,+8 hammer is 1/2.82 of a +9 demon whip
13:35 <+elliptic> this is all at 11 AC, right?
13:35 <+elliptic> or rather, assuming 11 AC
13:35 <+kilobyte> lemme check
13:35 <+kilobyte> assuming 11 AC for shatter damage
13:36 <+kilobyte> looks like I have fsim set to a dire elephant as the punching bag (EV 2, AC 13)
13:36 <+kilobyte> close enough, I guess
13:37 <+elliptic> the +4,+8 hammer with pow=1.5*dam sounds okay then
13:38 <+elliptic> since shillelagh gets better in comparison to demon whip as AC decreases, and most things in a regular game don't have such high AC
13:39 <+kilobyte> whoops, whip was unbranded
13:40 <+kilobyte> lemme check it again on an easier monster
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14:30 < Henzell> LuckyNed the Magician (L5 SpEn) (Temple)
14:39 < Zannick> !lm luckyned crash -log
14:39 < Sequell> 44. LuckyNed, XL5 SpEn, T:3867 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/LuckyNed/crash-LuckyNed-20111214-193033.txt
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14:44 < Henzell> MehPlusRawr the Skirmisher (L4 MuCK) ASSERT(t != NON_ENTITY && t < MAX_TRAPS) in 'traps.cc' at line 1000 failed on turn 4476. (Ossuary)
14:46 <+elliptic> !lm * crash -log
14:46 < Sequell> 2036. MehPlusRawr, XL4 MuCK, T:4476 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/MehPlusRawr/crash-MehPlusRawr-20111214-194449.txt
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16:31 <+|amethyst> that one is 0.9 so not my fault :)
16:32 <@dpeg> |amethyst -- passing the buck since two weeks :)
16:33 <+|amethyst> slide_feature_over is involved
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16:34 <+|amethyst> so maybe that doesn't properly update tgrid when the stairs swap with a trap
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17:17 < CIA-54> kilobyte * r74e48517d3c4 /crawl-ref/source/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Allow running the rltile tool with no #define USE_TILE.
17:17 < CIA-54> kilobyte * rff7caa149e7d /crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Enable and fix warnings in rltiles.
17:17 < CIA-54> kilobyte * re7bee85ce1ee /crawl-ref/source/ (art-data.txt spl-damage.cc): Buff the shillelagh a great deal.
17:17 < CIA-54> kilobyte * r660a66c471d8 /crawl-ref/source/ (9 files): Make tile enums available in console builds.
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17:24 <+SamB> kilobyte: why do we want those enums in console builds?
17:26 <+|amethyst> maybe for 4921: console mimics crash tiles
17:26 <+|amethyst> btw, you broke the makefile
17:26 <+|amethyst> by moving $(OBJECTS:%.o=%.cc): $(TILEDEFHDRS) above the all: rules
17:27 <+SamB> oh
17:27 <+SamB> whoops
17:27 <+|amethyst> "you" = "kilobyte" here
17:27 <+SamB> oh
17:28 <+SamB> I suspect the all: rules could do with being further up
17:30 <+SamB> kilobyte: that sounds a bit extreme; why can't the headers just be imported where needed?
17:31 <+SamB> ... or I guess maybe that's just because the #include-based dependancies might not have been calculated yet / be stale, so we need those headers generated before compiling anything?
17:35 <+edlothiol> tile enums in console builds are mainly for save file compatibility (between tiles/console) and code simplification
17:36 <+edlothiol> kilobyte wrote a mail about it on CRD a few weeks ago
17:36 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r526a37eb427f /crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Unbreak Makefile.
17:40 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: do we need tile_bk_fg/bk_bg/fg/bg in console builds?
17:44 <+|amethyst> elliptic: re 5054: Maras are frozen, what would you prefer? "The Maras are frozen."? "Mara is frozen. (x2)"?
17:45 <+elliptic> hm
17:45 < valrus_> I vote the latter
17:45 <@dpeg> I like "The Maras are frozen."
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17:46 < valrus_> fight me
17:46 <+elliptic> probably the latter, yeah... the former seems weird when the next two sentences are "Mara resists. Mara resists.", at least
17:46 <+elliptic> not sure though... "The Maras are frozen." definitely has some charm to it
17:48 <+SamB> ooh, I found a thing
17:49 <+SamB> It is called "order-only" prerequisites.
17:50 <+edlothiol> can someone reproduce #5055? I get the long description with x+v, and also with ?/M, except there it starts with "A Mennas."
17:50 < valrus_> "Mara is frozen. The other Mara is frozen."
17:50 <+SamB> kilobyte: I am fairly certain that *not* every file in the entire project needs access to these enums
17:53 <+SamB> hmm, so yeah
17:53 <+SamB> it looks like most things don't #include most of the stuff
17:56 <+|amethyst> edlothiol: I can't reproduce it either, but the ?/M thing isn't right
17:56 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r238df4310039 /crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Hide 'A' screen footers when unused.
17:58 <+edlothiol> |amethyst: yeah, the article should of course not be there (I find it curious that it only shows with ?/M, but I didn't investigate)
18:02 <@dpeg> |amethyst: we probably have few enough forms that we could indicate which form affects what mutation, if we want
18:03 <@dpeg> e.g. Ice (white *), Lich (grey *), etc
18:06 <+|amethyst> dpeg: the major categories are: all but blade/appendage; all but blade/appendage/lich; all but blade/appendage/lich/statue
18:06 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r53986d7889ab /crawl-ref/source/ (menu.cc menu.h): Remove the Menu(formatted_string) constructor.
18:06 <+|amethyst> there is also all but blade/appendage/dragon and all but blade/appendage/spider
18:09 < Eronarn> |amethyst: is there the possibility to divide it using same or lesser number of categories, with descriptors like 'Changes shape', 'Changes body material'?
18:09 < Eronarn> it seems like it should be
18:10 <+|amethyst> all but blade/appendage: changed physiology; all but blade/appendage/lich: shapechanged; all but blade/appendage/lich/statue: doesn't keep mutations
18:11 <+|amethyst> spider and dragon are special-cased for a few naga and draconian mutations/fake mutations, respectively
18:11 < Eronarn> are you talking about the spider poison spit thing
18:11 < Eronarn> because if that's still in it should absolutely go
18:11 <+|amethyst> breathe poison
18:12 < Eronarn> if we're dropping stuff like merfolk being able to breathe in water, we should drop any other internal weirdness
18:12 <+|amethyst> I changed it so that nagas can spit poison in all forms, because that's what the comments said
18:12 <+|amethyst> though it probably makes sense for that to be form-based
18:12 < Eronarn> though this does pose the question of racial stats
18:13 <+|amethyst> ?
18:13 < Eronarn> it's rather hard to explain why spriggan spiders are so much dodgier than human spiders :P
18:14 < Eronarn> that's a pretty big can of worms, though
18:14 <+|amethyst> yeah, I'd rather just keep the stats... spriggans turn into nimbler spiders
18:14 < alefury> please dont make the A screen huge
18:15 < Eronarn> i think having subscreens for A is better than trying to fit everything on one screen
18:15 < alefury> yeah
18:15 < Eronarn> people really liked the lava orc A screen for instance
18:15 < ghallberg> Yeah spriggans are smaller spiders and harder to hit.
18:15 <+|amethyst> ghallberg: they shouldn't be smaller spiders, just higher-dex
18:15 < Eronarn> ghallberg: they're not actually smaller, though that has been proposed
18:15 < ghallberg> Well "smaller"
18:16 < Eronarn> and i think for spider it could be justified, since there are many kinds of spider
18:16 < Eronarn> doesn't work for ice or dragon though
18:16 <@dpeg> better not to go that way... players would demand differenz sized ice beasts etc.
18:16 < ghallberg> Baby dragon :)
18:16 < Eronarn> spriggan -> fairy dragon!
18:16 <+|amethyst> ghallberg: and when a troll turns into a dragon?
18:17 <@dpeg> one size fits all, character stats make an impact
18:17 < ghallberg> I'm not proposing small spiders, just "smaller"
18:17 < ghallberg> |amethyst: Tiamat.
18:17 < valrus_> dpeg: since when do you give a crap what players demand ;)
18:17 <+|amethyst> she's not even a dragon
18:17 < Eronarn> of course, different sized ice beasts wouldn't be worse than the status quo
18:17 < Eronarn> since right now nobody even knows what an ice beast is
18:17 < alefury> arent they just beasts made of ice?
18:18 < alefury> or with a large ice component anyway?
18:18 <+|amethyst> beasts with fists
18:18 <+|amethyst> maybe some kind of sloth, from the tile
18:19 < ghallberg> I imagine them as the ice monsters from diablo 2
18:20 < Eronarn> ??ice form
18:20 < Henzell> ice form[1/1]: +20% HP, rF-, rC+++, rPois. Melds all armour except cloaks, but gives 5-12 AC (and has synergy with {ozocubu's armour}). 12+UC base damage with freezing brand. Players in ice form can float through water, but get no aquatic bonuses and can't reach submerged items. Found in Book of Changes, L4 ice/tmut.
18:20 < alefury> they arent completely immune to poison
18:20 < alefury> and they float in water
18:21 < Eronarn> can wear cloaks. has fists, which it bludgeons with, but it butchers with its mouth (but it doesn't have a bite attack). can't wear hats, use shields, weapons.
18:21 < Eronarn> @??ice beast
18:21 < Gretell> ice beast (I) | Speed: 10 (swim: 110%) | HD: 5 | Health: 16-39 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 5(cold:5-14) | Flags: amphibious | Res: magic(20), cold+++, poison, drown | Vul: fire | XP: 130.
18:21 * SamB is confused as to why make has done this twice:
18:21 <+SamB> make -C rltiles all ARCH=i486-linux-gnu TILES=
18:21 <+SamB> ... and ended up building stuff both times!
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18:23 < Eronarn> i say make them bite rather than bludgeon. icicle teeth!
18:28 < alefury> btw, what to do about wiglaf?
18:28 < alefury> leave him as the last of the regenerating dwarves?
18:29 < alefury> or make him a human or something?
18:29 < Xiberia> militant deep elf
18:30 <@dpeg> he could become a visiting hill dwarf
18:30 <@dpeg> (or mountain dwarf, for that matter)
18:30 < alefury> i think they should either be gone or not
18:30 < ghallberg> Looking for his lost family.
18:30 < alefury> but not visiting
18:31 < ghallberg> In the deep mines.
18:32 < alefury> hm, or actually call him last of the foo dwarves
18:32 < CIA-54> edlothiol * r911b6bf38041 /crawl-ref/source/ (menu.h mutation.cc): Unify the mutation menu code somewhat for vampires/non-vampires.
18:33 < alefury> the last of the mountain dwarves. unfortunately this is a particularly fat and ugly specimen, with bad taste to boot.
18:33 < alefury> can never beat the current description, though
18:33 < alefury> A fat dwarf wearing a stupid-looking hat.
18:33 < alefury> <3
18:34 < alefury> another option would be turning him into a DD
18:34 < Eronarn> or you could just leave him alone
18:35 <+|amethyst> so the reason for "a Mennas" is that when doing ?/ the monster_info isn't fully filled out
18:35 < alefury> might as well just deal with him now, otherwise, 5 versions from now there will be bug reports saying "wiglaf regenerates health"
18:35 <+|amethyst> in particular, MB_NAME_THE isn't set
18:38 <+edlothiol> ah
18:39 <+|amethyst> it could be, it's jsut that the monster_info(monster_type, monster_type) constructor does not
18:46 < Eronarn> alefury: just need to add glacier dwarves so that people don't associate dwarves with nonhealing
18:47 < alefury> i think having just DD is fine
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18:48 < alefury> hm, theres also still that forge dwarf thing
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18:50 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r150f846e4b01 /crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc: Fix "A Mennas." in ?/A
18:50 <+|amethyst> gah, that should have said ?/M
18:50 < BlastHardcheese> someone should add info about 0.10 rpois to the learndb
18:51 < alefury> ??rpois
18:51 < Henzell> poison resistance[1/2]: Makes you immune to normal poison (this includes chunks!), damage from normal poison attacks, and confusion from mephitic clouds. Halves damage and poison from Poison Arrow. Recommended for Swamp and Snake, of rather little use elsewhere.
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18:52 <+SamB> |amethyst: it's possible that you can use some strange incantation to replace that commit message without actually modifying the commit?
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18:52 <+|amethyst> doubtful... I think the description is part of what's hashed
18:53 <+|amethyst> I mean, short of resetting head and re-committing, which I will not do on a public repository
18:53 <+|amethyst> (I guess that's what git commit --amend does)
18:54 <+SamB> |amethyst: I was thinking of a facility I do not know much about that somehow lets you annotate commits post-hoc
18:55 <+SamB> git-notes
18:55 <+|amethyst> ah, wasn't aware of that
18:57 <+|amethyst> can't actually change what's displayed as the title, but I guess I could add a footnote Note: I meant "?/M".
18:57 <+|amethyst> I won't, but I could :)
19:00 <+|amethyst> Oh, good, roctavian provided some tiles for crawling corpses https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5043
19:02 <+|amethyst> They look good to me... I guess I should read up on what to do to add image files... I know they're supposed to be recompressed before committing
19:05 <+SamB> pngcrush and all that jazz, eh?
19:07 <@dpeg> |amethyst: if you cannot find a description of how it's done, please ask kilobyte. This should be documented.
19:09 <+|amethyst> it's a 66x32 image with three things... I guess the 22x32 parts should be recentered in a 32x32 image
19:09 <+|amethyst> I see help:tiles_creation, but that stuff I know
19:09 <+|amethyst> anyway, back in a bit
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19:37 <+|amethyst> are there any special arguments I should be giving pngcrush?
19:38 < alefury> changing the image files later increases the repo size, so best wait for kilobyte before pushing anything
19:41 < alefury> i believe there is some undocumented stuff that can be done
19:44 < alefury> might be documented by now, but probably not :P
19:54 <+SamB> !tell kilobyte we need to document a PNG optimization procedure ...
19:54 < Henzell> SamB: OK, I'll let kilobyte know.
19:58 <+edlothiol> didn't he do that at the end of docs/dev/tiles_creation.txt?
20:00 <+|amethyst> aha
20:00 <+SamB> !tell kilobyte we also need some sort of telepathic oracle to tell us where TFM is
20:00 < Henzell> SamB: OK, I'll let kilobyte know.
20:03 <+|amethyst> so for stuff like that isn't it usually wiki -> docs/ ?
20:04 <+|amethyst> this section wasn't in the wiki page
20:05 <+edlothiol> no idea -- it's also relatively recent (august)
20:07 <+|amethyst> woo, an extra 30% size reduction over pngcrush alone
20:07 <+|amethyst> of course, that's 385 bytes -> 259 bytes
20:10 < alefury> hm, the whole rltiles folder = 3.7MB
20:10 < alefury> saving something like 1MB of download size is nice i guess
20:11 < alefury> the tiles folder after building is only about 2MB, but still significant savings i suppose
20:24 <+SamB> alefury: it's not the folder only, but also the history ...
20:24 <+SamB> the dev/ stuff actually gets edited in docs
20:24 <+SamB> well, probably everything but the manual proper, really ...
20:25 < alefury> SamB: i know the history is bigger, but recompressing doesnt make the history smaller :P
20:25 <+SamB> alefury: it does BEFORE adding the file to the repo...
20:25 < alefury> i know, thats what i said 40 minutes ago
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20:26 < alefury> good night
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20:45 <+|amethyst> okay, I think this is ready
20:45 <+|amethyst> I even got the new small abomination tile to be used for undead ones
20:45 <+|amethyst> it helps that red and lightred are both 0 (mod 2)
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20:52 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r0353fec4ce6b /crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 4 dirs): roctavian's tiles for crawlies.
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20:58 < Eronarn> do we really still need demonic abominations anyways
20:58 < HangedMan> scroll of summoning?
20:58 < HangedMan> sht?
20:59 <+|amethyst> splitting undead from demonic abominations might be good though
20:59 <+|amethyst> there's no real reason for them to share species
21:00 < Eronarn> scroll of summoning can summon something else (or just summon an undead one anyways, since summon undead is a thing)
21:00 < Eronarn> sht doesn't need aboms
21:01 <+|amethyst> most of the abomination tiles would go unused then, though
21:01 <+|amethyst> speaking of which, I would not be surprised if some of them are unused now
21:03 < Eronarn> |amethyst: unused tiles can be recycled elsewhere easily enough
21:03 < Eronarn> have a link to them?
21:05 <+|amethyst> let's see
21:05 < HangedMan> rltiles is a mess and a half
21:06 <+|amethyst> disallowed colours are green = 2, magenta = 5, darkgrey = 8, lightcyan = 11
21:07 <+|amethyst> oh, and black = 0
21:07 < HangedMan> the only good ones are 1, 2, and 6 anyway
21:07 < HangedMan> erm, abomination_large(1/2/6).png
21:08 <+|amethyst> undead laboms are red = 4 and lightred = 12
21:10 <+|amethyst> so tile 0 is used twice, tile 1 twice, tile 2 once, tile 3 twice, tile 4 only for undead, tile 5 only for undead, and tile 6 twice
21:11 <+|amethyst> and tile 5 will be seen quite rarely because you really have to corpse-stack to have any likelihood of getting a lightred large abomination
21:13 < Eronarn> why are we even keeping the color mechanic
21:13 < Eronarn> surely there are better ways to communicate 'this abomination is strong'
21:13 < HangedMan> it has an X instead of an x
21:13 < HangedMan> (colours actually defined anything about abominations??)
21:14 < Eronarn> they used to be based off of corpse freshness or color or... something, now i hear they are related to how strong it is?
21:14 <+|amethyst> HangedMan: for undead abominations, the colour is associated with the HD
21:14 < HangedMan> huh.
21:14 <+|amethyst> previously it was based on freshness and HD I believe
21:14 <+|amethyst> now you'll rarely see anything but red though
21:15 <+|amethyst> pink small abominations require you to have two heavy corpses and somewhat high spell power
21:15 < Eronarn> so wait there's now a split between good small abominations and bad large ones?
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21:16 < Eronarn> if we're going to have different abom types they should be actually interesting variations, not size/HD
21:17 < HangedMan> speed
21:18 <+|amethyst> and attack damage
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21:20 <+|amethyst> "good" (pink) small abominations have 11 or more hd... the only thing keeping them from being large is the fact that they comprise only two corpses
21:21 < Eronarn> why even track that, though? having both color and size means it's very unclear which out of a bad large abomination and a good small abomination is better, without spoilers
21:21 < Eronarn> (and that's even if you had spoilers to know that changing abomination color makes them better)
21:21 <+|amethyst> "large is better than small" is almost always true
21:21 <+|amethyst> but, yeah, there's no real reason to keep the red-vs-pink split
21:22 < Eronarn> basically i'm saying if they're treated like different monsters, name them like such (but also, if we're naming them differently, we should consider whether there's more interesting variations we can give them than just a linear increase in stats)
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21:50 < CIA-54> |amethyst * ra6caf00343b5 /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc rltiles/dc-mon.txt spl-summoning.cc): Make undead abominations always lightred.
21:50 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: thanks
21:55 < Eronarn> |amethyst: fwiw i think the existence of undead/demonic abominations is a bigger deal because it has actual gameplay effects :)
21:55 <+SamB> hmm, I don't think rltiles is updating the timestamps on files that it determines don't need updating ...
21:55 < Eronarn> (you can't tell whether it's undead or demonic by looking at it, but some stuff that works on undead won't work on demons and vice versa)
21:55 <+SamB> oh, yeah, it's not supposed to, is it?
21:55 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: you can tell by the colour but that's spoilery
21:55 <+|amethyst> Eronarn: it just so happens that you can tell by the tile too, but that's fragile
21:56 <+|amethyst> for large abominations; for small, you can't tell by the tile
21:56 < Eronarn> at least until something better comes along, we should just make a new monster that's identical except for name/description
21:56 < Eronarn> and use that wherever demonic aboms are supposed to show up
21:57 <+|amethyst> no more upgrading your scroll of summoning using twisted resurrection? :)
21:57 < Eronarn> if that works, that's all the more reason the change should happen :P
21:58 < CIA-54> dolorous * r0b8f7791a4fb /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc mon-util.h): Add spacing fixes.
21:58 < Eronarn> my idea for SHT was to make it 'summon (weak, cthulhu-themed) panlord'
21:59 < Eronarn> but anything would be better than the status quo
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22:05 < Eronarn> we should use this ;) http://google-engtools.blogspot.com/2011/12/bug-prediction-at-google.html
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22:06 < CIA-54> SamB * r392d74490527 /crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Don't rebuild *everything* after regenerating headers.
22:06 < CIA-54> SamB * r6c038962b776 /crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Don't re-enter rltiles tree so many times.
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22:18 < G-Flex> I just got two timed portals on the same level; is that supposed to happen?
22:19 < BlastHardcheese> yes, just to troll you
22:19 < HangedMan> three is worse
22:19 < HangedMan> especially when you realize you missed the opportunity to actually enter a volcano
22:20 < G-Flex> heh
22:25 <+|amethyst> SamB: Not sure that fixed the multiple rltiles problem... I just got rltiles entered twice at the beginning of a make run
22:25 <+SamB> |amethyst: what are you building ?
22:26 <+|amethyst> SamB: just make DEBUG=y FULLDEBUG=
22:26 <+SamB> :-(
22:26 <+|amethyst> SamB: I pressed ctrl-c and ran it again, and it only happened once
22:26 <+|amethyst> but it's happening on every single run even if nothing has changed
22:26 <+SamB> |amethyst: yeah, I realized that that's normal, actually
22:27 <+|amethyst> the first time, something had changed
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22:27 <+SamB> the program deliberately doesn't update its output if there's nothing changed
22:28 <+SamB> I mean, if it was going to write the same data again
22:28 <+SamB> that confuses make the next time around ...
22:28 <+|amethyst> yeah
22:28 <+|amethyst> I see what's happening... if the compiler flags have changed, tilegen.elf has to be rebuilt
22:29 <+SamB> hmm?
22:29 <+|amethyst> so that happens, then it does make -C rltiles *again*
22:29 <+SamB> oh?
22:29 <+SamB> oh well
22:29 <+SamB> so my fix did nothing
22:29 <+SamB> and was no fix
22:29 <+SamB> oops!
22:32 <+SamB> |amethyst: at least the *other* commit seems to work
22:33 <+|amethyst> I'm trying to figure out why build-rltiles is happening before greet
22:34 <+SamB> I've been wondering why stuff's been happening before greet for *ages*
22:34 <+SamB> (that is, stuff that isn't part of "rebuilding makefiles")
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22:54 < CIA-54> dolorous * r8648ca73ef34 /crawl-ref/source/mon-util.h: Remove redundant include.
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22:54 < CIA-54> dolorous * rba0cc79b951e /crawl-ref/source/ (evoke.h potion.h spl-summoning.h tileview.h): Rename a few #include guards to match their associated files.
22:57 <+SamB> what is he doing, optimizing for MSVC builds?
22:57 <+SamB> (with the "remove redundant include", I mean.)
22:59 <+|amethyst> SamB: it was mon-util.h including mon-util.h
22:59 <+SamB> oh
23:00 <+|amethyst> inside an include guard so it wouldn't actually happen
23:00 <+|amethyst> but still
23:00 <+SamB> yeah, that's more than redundant
23:00 <+SamB> assuming there wasn't any recursion, I mean
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--- Log closed Thu Dec 15 00:00:04 2011