--- Log opened Tue Dec 13 00:00:01 2011
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02:23 <+elliptic>  You puncture the spider but do no damage.
02:23 <+elliptic> _The spider is poisoned.
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02:23 <+elliptic> poisoning used to require doing damage
02:34 < st_> the venom learndb entry which I'm assuming was written before ucc says otherwise
02:34 < st_> just says "on successful hit"
02:39 <+elliptic> hm, I'll check it
02:39 <+elliptic> "successful hit" could mean "did damage"
02:40 < st_> yeah it's not entirely clear
02:40 < st_> I was just about to test it myself
02:49 <+elliptic> hm, I think what's going on is just that messages changed, maybe
02:49 < st_> for some reason it's pretty hard to get "but do no damage" meleeing a stone giant with a +0 knife of venom in 0.8
02:51 < st_> yeah hitting with a short sword is all no damages
02:52 <+elliptic> I'm guessing it just didn't previously give the no damage message if it poisoned the monster
02:52 <+elliptic> and now it does
02:53 < st_> I think now is better then?
02:53 <+elliptic> now is certainly less misleading at least
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03:27 <+|amethyst> I just pushed a branch mutation-forms with my work
03:27 <+|amethyst> The display is kind of ugly and could use some work
03:28 <+|amethyst> And most fake mutations aren't displayed correctly
03:28 <+|amethyst> It could also use some testing for correctness
03:30 <+|amethyst> I wanted to make the "*" and "+" flags a different colour, but that doesn't work for non-vampires because apparently Menu() can only do one colour per line of text 
03:30 <+|amethyst> (vampires don't use Menu() because they have the ! screen)
03:31 <+|amethyst> s/Menu\(\)/Menu/g
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04:14 <+Napkin> http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com/2011/12/request-for-votes-ascii-dreams.html
04:14 < Henzell> Napkin: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
04:15 <+Napkin> !messages
04:15 < Henzell> (1/1) Wensley said (2d 12h 8m 53s ago): getting the following error when trying to play a game of crawl from DGL: Error: unknown encoding "This option is for DGL use only." <-- is this a compilation problem?
04:15 <+Napkin> !Wensley where did you get that error? on CDO or on your local DGL?
04:15 <+Napkin> !tell Wensley where did you get that error? on CDO or on your local DGL?
04:15 < Henzell> Napkin: OK, I'll let Wensley know.
04:18 < ghallberg> I'm testing out a patch to always identify any armour which is not cursed/artefact/branded.
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04:23 < alefury> ?
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04:24 < alefury> on sight?
04:24 < ghallberg> alefury: Yep, I hate having to wear every singel robe in orc.
04:24 < ghallberg> So I'm gonna see how it feels...
04:25 <+|amethyst> so if you find a non-embroidered robe that isn't identified, you know it's cursed?
04:26 < ghallberg> Hmm, didn't think of that. Guess I'd have to add embroidered to cursed stuff too.
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04:28 < alefury> nah, embroidered is fine. the point is, if its not embroidered/etc it never has a brand
04:28 < alefury> so if it doesnt id, you know its cursed
04:28 < ghallberg> Hmm okay.
04:29 < ghallberg> So... glowing stuff can't have brands?
04:29 < alefury> yes, it can
04:29 <+|amethyst> alefury: right, ghallberg is saying that if you add glowing/etc to cursed things, then you'll never have a plain item that's not IDed
04:29 < alefury> embroidered = embroidered, runed, glowing, anything i forgot
04:30 <+|amethyst> yeah, I was using "embroidered" to stand for any of those
04:30 < alefury> |amethyst: i dont get what you mean
04:30 < alefury> what would work is always giving the pluses of non-runed/etc items, no matter if they are cursed or not
04:31 < alefury> it would lessen the relevance of curses a bit
04:31 < ghallberg> alefury: The issue I had was cursed stuff with negative enchantments.
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04:31 < alefury> ah, true
04:31 < ghallberg> Yes this make sit less probable to wear cursed stuff.
04:31 < ghallberg> makes*
04:32 < alefury> i dont really have a big problem with trying robes, because if i want a branded one i only have to try on the embroidered etc ones anyway
04:32 < alefury> of which there are usually maybe 5-10 or so in orc, which is manageable
04:32 <+|amethyst> right now, plain = no brand, maybe cursed, maybe bonus/malus ; fancy = maybe brand, maybe cursed, some bonus/malus
04:32 < ghallberg> Manageable, but boring and annoying imo.
04:33 <+|amethyst> What ghallberg is suggesting:   plain = no brand, not cursed, maybe bonus/malus ; fancy = as before
04:33 <+|amethyst> I think if you do that you should just make non-fancy items always +0
04:33 < alefury> ohhh. that sounds interesting.
04:33 <+|amethyst> then you have a safe option, but if you want something good you have to risk curses
04:34 < alefury> i dont know about forbidding negative enchantment
04:34 < alefury> -1 gloves are still better than no gloves (acid)
04:34 <+|amethyst> at most +0 then
04:34 < alefury> also they open up the option of enchanting your gloves
04:35 <+|amethyst> that way you could keep orcish weapons as -1,+0 sometimes
04:35 < alefury> i think having some variety in regular items is good. restricting them to +0 max is a bit harsh :/
04:36 < alefury> btw, would this be for weapons, too, or just armor?
04:36 < ghallberg> My point was that you wear-id everything anyhow, so giving the information for free isn't really a problem.
04:36 <+|amethyst> if you don't have to worry about curses then, until you have a good brand, you should try on every good item
04:36 < alefury> i dont really see the point of restricting it to armor
04:36 < ghallberg> alefury: Atm, I'm doing it for armour.
04:36 <+|amethyst> err
04:36 < ghallberg> |amethyst: The emproidered (etc) items can still be cursed.
04:36 <+|amethyst> sorry
04:36 < alefury> weapons are harder to id and curses are slightly more interesting
04:37 <+|amethyst> I was forgetting entirely that it would be pre-IDed
04:37 <+|amethyst> true
04:37 <+|amethyst> you have to hit with the weapon to know its pluses
04:38 < alefury> |amethyst: can you add "fancy" to the item search thingies?
04:38 < alefury> for all fancy items?
04:38 < ghallberg> So a -2 cursed robe with no brand would be embroidered. But a -2 uncursed robe of no brand would be plain.
04:38 < alefury> would be nifty
04:39 < ghallberg> Anyway, this is just something I'm testing out, to see how it feels. I haven't even talked much to the devs about it.
04:39 < alefury> i frequently find myself wanting to search for all fancy items in a branch/on a floor
04:40 < alefury> ghallberg: i think something like this should be consistent for weapons and armor (even though weapons are harder to id). but it is a good idea in general.
04:40 < alefury> without consistency it would just be a bit weird imo
04:41 < ghallberg> But there's no consistency now. :)
04:41 < alefury> yeah, and i dont like it :P
04:41 < ghallberg> Well that's a whole other discussion then :P
04:41 < alefury> i would prefer id to get more consistent instead of less
04:42 < ghallberg> Now I need to study for finals, be back in two days or so :D
04:42 < alefury> "useless armor IDs for free" is much more different from weapon ID than "useless armor IDs on wearing"
04:42 < alefury> good luck
04:43 < ghallberg> It's not that different since wearing is (very close to) free.
04:44 < alefury> it feels very different
04:44 < alefury> have you played with ash?
04:45 < ghallberg> Well, we'll see what comes of this. I get your point :)
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10:03 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2693-g1243efd (32)
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10:26 <+evilmike> the channel logs linked to in the topic aren't being updated any more
10:27 <+Zaba> evilmike, I believe Ashenzari did the logging, and he's down since 2011-12-08
10:27 <+evilmike> ah, that's when the logs stop
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10:34 < alefury> allegedly Ashenzari runs on doy's VM
10:35 < alefury> but he doesnt seem to be around
10:37 < ais523> nailed to the sky, presumably
10:42 < alefury> i meant doy :P
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11:32 <@dpeg> hi
11:34 < alefury> hi. interesting tavern threads today :)
11:39 <+Cryp71c> alefury, ?
11:39 < ghallberg> alefury: Stop pulling me away from studying >.<
11:39 < alefury> well, not majorly interesting
11:39 < alefury> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3360
11:39 < alefury> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3358
11:40 < alefury> and a slightly older one: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3342
11:43 <@dpeg> !seen kilobyte 
11:43 < Henzell> I last saw kilobyte at Tue Dec 13 04:14:20 2011 UTC (12h 29m ago) saying right now it does nothing but check for vampires on ##crawl-dev.
11:46 <@dpeg> alefury: good idea on jellies
11:50 <@dpeg> kilobyte: I am fine with Octopodes being postponed to 0.11 for release, but I hope they're merged as soon as possible, for testing.
11:53 <+elliptic> why would octopodes be postponed?
11:54 <+Cryp71c> There is some question as to their (super) early deathrate. Many have complained it is too high, involving less skill and more chance.
11:54 <+elliptic> I don't see the point, personally... constriction will need some balancing of course, but that's not a big deal
11:54 <+elliptic> Cryp71c: uh, by "Many" you mean one person
11:54 <+elliptic> DrPraetor is pretty crazy about it
11:54 <+Cryp71c> elliptic, perhaps, clearly it was enough to ripple through and gain traction.
11:55 <+Cryp71c> I can't speak to their strength or weakness, though, my playtesting of them is extremely limited.
11:55 <+Cryp71c> On my games though, I didn't have much more of an issue getting past the first few dungeon levels than with any other race I regularly play.
11:55 <+elliptic> I haven't heard anyone agree with him when he comes onto IRC and makes grandiose claims about octopodes without any support for them
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11:55 <+elliptic> it is a classic example of "I haven't managed to win one, therefore they are hard" as far as I can tell
11:56 <+elliptic> and being hard is fine anyway, we have other hard species
11:57 <@dpeg> elliptic: I am worried about Snake, not about Oc.
11:57 <+elliptic> dpeg: I don't think kilobyte was suggesting delaying octopodes until 0.11 in his c-r-d post, by the way... doesn't read that way at all to me
11:57 <@dpeg> elliptic: even better. Personally, I don't care about the precise version, it's all the same to me... as long as the content comes :)
11:58 <@dpeg> I also think that Oc is very popular, so we get lots of splats by, um, more incompetent or let's say impatient players.
11:58 <+elliptic> dpeg: right, snake balance is more worrisome
11:58 < ghallberg> dpeg: Let's say inexerienced :)
11:59 <+elliptic> however snake is easy enough relative to shoals currently that there is quite a lot of room to make it more dangerous without being out of line
12:01 <+elliptic> dpeg: on a different topic, I've been thinking a bit about the following idea: currently we track the number of times a player casts each spell, and this information is available in dumps (if people enable it). Maybe we should track other similar information?
12:02 < alefury> imo it should be enabled by default btw. its awesome info.
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12:02 < alefury> tells a lot more about the history of the character than the whole damn note log
12:02 <+elliptic> for instance, number of scrolls read, number of times hitting a monster in melee, number of ranged attacks made, and so on
12:03 < alefury> would be a great addition to dumps imo
12:04 <+elliptic> I don't think these details should necessarily be default, since this isn't nethack... I don't think we want to encourage people to care about conducts like not reading scrolls
12:04 < alefury> its not about conducts, its just very useful info imo
12:04 <@dpeg> elliptic: yes, absolutely for tracking stuff
12:05 <+elliptic> but I don't see anything wrong with tracking it either... could be useful data for testing, and it has some potential for tournaments possibly
12:05 <@dpeg> I think it can be used to make gods more interesting.
12:05 < alefury> also it would be somewhat useful data for analysis, and for that it needs to be on by default
12:05 < blueDave> would it also help to know how low hp/mp goes and how often?
12:06 < blueDave> ie how close to the brink do people play
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12:07 < alefury> possibly also: bars of mp spent, bars of hp spent? would be nice to know how casty i am per level
12:08 <+elliptic> alefury: well, I was thinking of also having the most basic of these numbers be logfile fields... i.e. those would be available to us even if they aren't in the dump
12:09 < blueDave> and for checking the effectiveness of food reform, what's been consumed, how much nausea, etc?
12:09 <+elliptic> there are obviously ways of getting really detailed about the data that is collected, but I'm pretty sure we don't want to force that on people
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12:09 < alefury> that sounds useful, but that is something that might actually strongly enable weird conducts
12:09 <+elliptic> blueDave: sometimes data like that has been included in dumps during trunk for a brief while
12:09 < alefury> because then you could filter !lg for them, which doesnt work with dumps
12:10 <+elliptic> if we ever want data on a specific new feature in trunk, we can add something to dumps temporarily... this has been done
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12:10 < alefury> tbh i dont think weird conducts are a problem at all, if people like them they can play them, whats wrong with enjoying crawl in your own weird way?
12:10 <+elliptic> I was thinking of more permanent stuff, for stable versions... and I'm not sure we want to force any very detailed data into players' morgue files then
12:11 <+elliptic> alefury: they wouldn't necessarily be sequell fields... not all logfile fields are currently recognized by sequell
12:11 < alefury> on by default != forced
12:11 < alefury> ah, i didnt know that
12:12 < blueDave> easy enough to capture data always, but only write it if the option is turned on
12:12 < blueDave> as long as a few kb of data isn't significant
12:13 <+elliptic> anyway, I don't feel particularly strongly about the "weird conducts" thing... just thought I'd bring it up and point out that simple data (like total number of spells cast) can be collected unobtrusively if we are worried about this
12:13 < blueDave> and a few instructions in the pathlength, of course
12:13 < alefury> i usually look at my own morgue files because im actually interested in the spells by level section. and i would also do so for other stuff like that. most people dont even know about that option, and its too cool to let it rot in obsurity imo.
12:15 <@dpeg> I'd like a lengthy file that makes Trog speak differently if you had a career as a caster, as an example.
12:16 < alefury> repent or face my wrath! :P
12:16 <+elliptic> dpeg: could be nice, yeah... I guess this is sort of like the plan for making Dg more flavorful?
12:17 < alefury> elliptic: you mean in that its not going to happen anytime soon? :(
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12:17 <+elliptic> well, just collecting some very simple data should be a lot easier than doing flavorful things with it :)
12:17 < alefury> what happened to Dg btw? wasnt mumra working on it?
12:17 < Eronarn> elliptic: tension would be very good
12:18 < Eronarn> to track
12:18 <@dpeg> mumra has a working patch, it just needs content
12:18 <@dpeg> I didn't have time for a while, when I had, I couldn't track mumra and his patch down :(
12:18 <@dpeg> would be a shame to lose this stuff
12:18 <@dpeg> !seen mumra
12:18 < Henzell> I last saw mumra at Wed Dec  7 18:08:40 2011 UTC (5d 23h 10m 1s ago) parting ##crawl with message chanpart.
12:18 <@dpeg> if you see him, please ask for the link to his patch
12:19 < Eronarn> like a reasonable compromise would be: highest tension level attained, for each XL
12:19 < alefury> try !tell?
12:19 <+MarvinPA> i think it's in a branch on his gitorious account
12:19 <+MarvinPA> i checked out the boulder beetle branch from there to have a look at it, and i think i saw demigods there too
12:19 <@dpeg> alefury: did that, as well as an email
12:19 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: wonderful... can you check if it is still there?
12:20 <+elliptic> eronarn: well, that's the sort of thing that wouldn't be of interest to most players, since they wouldn't have any clue what various numerical values of tension mean (at least, I don't :P)
12:20 <+elliptic> collecting data like that for a while in trunk could be good though certainly
12:20 < Eronarn> elliptic: well i don't either which is why i'd like to collect it :)
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12:29 <+SamB> Eronarn: lol
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12:30 <+SamB> ... do you guys like how I stole the screenshots for crash dumps?
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12:49 < CIA-54> edlothiol tiles-monster-info * rb7ff298762cb /crawl-ref/source/directn.cc: Fix broken mlist targetting.
12:49 < CIA-54> edlothiol tiles-monster-info * r9ebd270cf6ea /crawl-ref/source/ (directn.cc mon-info.cc mon-info.h tags.cc): Don't store and save two_weapons and no_regen in monster_info, since they just depend on the monster type.
12:50 <+edlothiol> SamB: ... you stole the screenshots?
12:50 <+SamB> edlothiol: from morgues, yeah ;-)
12:52 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: the problem with player-based monster_info::pos isn't just having to convert back... it's actually completely useless for monsters that aren't currently in view, since their pos will be relative to the location the player was at when he last saw the monster
12:52 <+edlothiol> kilobyte: that just wasn't a problem so far because pos was never used for monster_infos outside the view
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12:54 <+edlothiol> |amethyst: I think you can have colorful lines in menus if you set MF_ALLOW_FORMATTING and use color tags
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12:57 <+SamB> iirc help text is presented in what are technically menus?
12:58 <+edlothiol> yeah
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13:01  * SamB wants to change the religion and description screens to do likewise
13:03 <+|amethyst> edlothiol:  testing... is there any reason not to do that on a menu that is created from a formatted_string ?
13:03 <+|amethyst> s/a menu/every menu/
13:05 <+|amethyst> no, it has the same problem I was seeing before: only the last colour is used
13:05 <+edlothiol> |amethyst: compare e.g. with the inventory menu (which uses multiple colors in the headings)?
13:05 <+edlothiol> SamB: yeah, that would be good
13:07 <+edlothiol> SamB: also, nemelex's deck stacking ability uses custom printing :-/
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13:14 <+edlothiol> oh, mutation display already uses a formatted_scroller
13:15 <+edlothiol> yeah, then MF_ALLOW_FORMATTING won't help, I think
13:16 <+edlothiol> (or rather, shouldn't even be necessary?)
13:20 <+|amethyst> it seems that it takes the formatted_string entries, joins all the text together, and takes the colour from the last tag that appears
13:23 <+edlothiol> oh wait, it doesn't use a formatted_scroller... I was looking at the wrong menu
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13:37 <+edlothiol> |amethyst: you could use a formatted_scroller like this: http://pastebin.com/nnD6fwZ3 although there may be implications I haven't thought about
13:38 <@dpeg> !seen evilmike
13:38 < Henzell> I last saw evilmike at Tue Dec 13 16:13:48 2011 UTC (2h 24m 55s ago) quitting with message Read error: Connection reset by peer.
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14:08 < CIA-54> dolorous * r8c70d9d48593 /crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Remove obsolete comment, as monster::upgrade_type() is used elsewhere now.
14:08 < CIA-54> dolorous * rbafccbf6c3c3 /crawl-ref/source/mon-grow.cc: Add indentation fix.
14:08 < CIA-54> dolorous * r0b1556c6a121 /crawl-ref/source/ (godabil.cc mon-place.cc mon-place.h): Fix Fedhas' turning zombies into skeletons.
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14:39 <+kilobyte> dpeg, elliptic: I wasn't suggesting delaying octopodes, but the branching.  As in, let's have a ban on new major features like planned, but give constriction some time to stew up, rather than trying to cherry-pick major balance changes.
14:40 <+kilobyte> 0.11 must be in late July/early August but 0.10 has no such constraints
14:41 <+kilobyte> having 6 months between releases is just as good as 5 months between 0.9 and 0.10 then 7 between 0.10 and 0.11
14:43 < Eronarn> did someone address the octos being able to breathe underwater while xformed thing?
14:44 < Eronarn> because it came up but i didn't see a commit for it (i may have just missed it though)
14:45 <+kilobyte> not me at least
14:46 <+kilobyte> can't check it right now, got to go
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14:52 < CIA-54> dolorous * r637aa4309742 /crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc: Adjust monster speed in downgrade_zombie_to_skeleton().
14:55 <@dpeg> kilobyte: good to have you here! Sounds sensible to me.
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15:15 <+|amethyst> I don't think it has been addressed... I am not doing so currently in mutation-forms but something should probably be done
15:16 < Eronarn> |amethyst: figuring it out is kind of tricky because statue/lich form can't go into water for other races, but clearly shouldn't depend on having functional lungs
15:17 < Eronarn> also, there's grey dracs: they don't need to breathe
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15:19 <+|amethyst> in my branch grey drac unbreathing is lost in forms
15:20 < Eronarn> that makes sense for the forms that change shape, but not really for lich/statue/blade hands
15:21 <+|amethyst> right, lich/statue/blade/appendage are exempted from all of this
15:21 <+|amethyst> but you're right that swimming for octopode/merfolk statues/lich needs some thought
15:22 <+MarvinPA> merfolk are sort of weird since their swimming is a transformation itself, i guess
15:22 < Eronarn> i'm tempted to say that we should just give unbreathing - including the water part - to any statues
15:22 <+MarvinPA> so you could argue that they can't swim while in statue/lichform
15:22 <+|amethyst> statues and lich get unbreathing, but that doesn't affect swimming
15:23 <+|amethyst> MarvinPA:  you could also argue that, since the form with a tail is their natural form, they shouldn't be able to walk on land in e.g. lichform
15:23 < Eronarn> MarvinPA: that came up, and the problem with that is that the tail form is treate... yeah
15:23 <+MarvinPA> heh, right
15:24 < Eronarn> lich could be justified on the grounds that they're skeletal, unlike the fleshy player undead
15:24 < Eronarn> so being wet isn't as big of a deal to them
15:25 < Eronarn> if we extended unbreathing-swimming to liches/statues, and merfolk/octo kept their better water maneuverability on top of that, this would all be relatively settled yeah?
15:26 < CIA-54> elliptic * r5360f35cb1a3 /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Tweak shield penalties for unarmed.
15:26 < CIA-54> elliptic * r3327f64a63cf /crawl-ref/source/dat/lua/autofight.lua: Prevent autofight from acting if you are confused.
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15:42 <+|amethyst> should draconians keep their AC in statue form?   scales mutations do
15:42 <+|amethyst> currently draconians do not
15:44 <+|amethyst> likewise nagas
15:44 < Eronarn> if we're blocking armor from giving ac in statue form, scales certainly shouldn't, and neither should draconian ac
15:44 < Eronarn> (personally i think all those should give AC in statue form :P)
15:48 <+|amethyst> I'm not about to make armour give AC for statues :)
15:49 <+|amethyst> I guess that would make iridescent scales useless for statues, but all the others still partially useful
15:49 <+|amethyst> that's kind of tricky
15:50 <+evilmike> speaking of form AC, I think it would be good to redo the formula for dragon form AC
15:50 < Henzell> evilmike: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
15:50 < Eronarn> iridescent? what do they do?
15:50 <+evilmike> right now it's pretty unusual. For non-draconians it depends on fire magic
15:50 <+evilmike> for draconians I dunno how it works
15:50 <+evilmike> fire magic doesn't matter too much - even maxed out your AC will be horrible. But that's where you get it from :P
15:51 < Eronarn> evilmike: i kind of think it should just not be a fire magic spell; it could use the higher out of (X) schools and be a dragon of the appropriate type, or something
15:51 <+MarvinPA> i'd still vaguely like to just make dragon form pure tmut for everyone
15:51 <+MarvinPA> just a matter of figuring out what breath weapon/resistance to give to non-dracs in that case, yeah
15:51 <+|amethyst> Eronarn:  pure AC
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15:51 < Eronarn> could make it elemental and be ice, fire, earth=iron, air=lightning
15:52 <+evilmike> that's reasonable, just pure tmut and become a dragon of [highest elemental skill]
15:52 < Eronarn> of course then you'd have to deal with there not being a tmut/air spell (add sky beast form)
15:52 <+evilmike> default to fire
15:52 < alefury> hm, or actually dualschool tmut/highest element :)
15:52 < alefury> although that would probably be an implementation nightmare
15:52 < alefury> also, interface
15:52 < Eronarn> alefury: Transmutation/{Elemental} would be reasonable
15:52 <+evilmike> yeah a spell that changes its schools depending on your skills is... a difficult idea
15:53 < alefury> breath weapon power could depend on the elemental school though
15:53 < Eronarn> a bigger question with elemental dragonform would be the resistances
15:53 < Eronarn> @??storm dragon
15:53 < Gretell> storm dragon (D) | Speed: 12 | HD: 14 | Health: 86-130 | AC/EV: 13/10 | Damage: 25, 15, 15 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: magic(93), cold, elec+++, drown | XP: 3216 | Sp: b.lightning (3d19).
15:53 <+evilmike> another thing about dragon form - it gives GDR but sets your AC to single digits. That's really weird
15:53 < Eronarn> @??iron dragon
15:53 < Gretell> iron dragon (D) | Speed: 8 | HD: 18 | Health: 104-132 | AC/EV: 20/6 | Damage: 25, 25, 25 | Flags: sense invisible, !sil | Res: magic(168), fire, cold, poison, drown | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 2319 | Sp: metal splinters (3d30).
15:54 < alefury> the gdr is a recent addition
15:54 <+evilmike> I mean, isn't GDR a lot more useful with high AC levels? the amount it gives you seems to barely matter
15:54 < Eronarn> evilmike: unfortunately crawl dragons don't really have much AC for whatever reason
15:54 < alefury> yeah, GDR works only up to half your AC i think
15:55 <+evilmike> that's right
15:55 < Eronarn> hmm, actually
15:56 < G-Flex> yes
15:56 < G-Flex> I think
15:56 < Eronarn> what about making dragon form just be a four-in-one spell?
15:56 < Eronarn> you can choose when you cast it
15:56 <+evilmike> I dont like being prompted for stuff
15:56 < Eronarn> it can still draw off of skill for the breath weapon, but that way it has usefulness in multiple situations
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15:57 < alefury> oh no! that might actually make it competitive with necromutation!
15:57 < alefury> prompts are bad, though :(
15:57 < alefury> default to last chosen, give abilities to change element?
15:58 < Eronarn> that could work... or one of z/Z casts with a prompt, the other autocasts
15:58 <+MarvinPA> the main point of it is the crazy damage anyway, the breath weapon and resistance are fairly minor
15:59 < Eronarn> MarvinPA: yeah but the damage is already figured out :P
15:59 < Eronarn> whereas this is quite flavorful but not
15:59 <+evilmike> I dont care about the flavour, I just find the defense aspect weird. GDR but hardly any AC, and the AC you get is based on fire magic.
15:59 < Eronarn> @??ice dragon
15:59 < Gretell> ice dragon (D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 17, 17, 17 | Flags: cold-blooded, fly, !sil | Res: magic(48), cold++, poison, drown | Vul: fire | XP: 1228 | Sp: cold blast (3d24).
15:59 < Eronarn> @??fire dragon
16:00 < Gretell> unknown monster: "fire dragon"
16:00 < Eronarn> what are they called now
16:00 <+evilmike> monster stats don't matter imo
16:00 <+evilmike> they're just called dragons still
16:00 < Eronarn> @??dragon
16:00 < Gretell> dragon (D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 20, 13, 13 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: magic(64), fire++, poison, drown | Vul: cold | XP: 1357 | Sp: flame blast (3d24).
16:00 < Eronarn> weird, didn't ice dragons used to have more AC than dragons
16:00 <+evilmike> ice dragon armour gives more AC
16:00 <+evilmike> dunno about the monster
16:02 <+evilmike> @?ice dragon
16:02 < Gretell> ice dragon (D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 17, 17, 17 | Flags: cold-blooded, fly, !sil | Res: magic(48), cold++, poison, drown | Vul: fire | XP: 1228 | Sp: cold blast (3d24).
16:03 < Eronarn> what about just dropping the skill component from AC entirely. do the same for spider form, imo
16:03 < Eronarn> having AC based on elemental skills only really makes sense for like... ice/statue
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16:10 < CIA-54> elliptic * rcf8115f9c34a /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Increase the number of offhand punches by 33%.
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16:40 < G-Flex> Eronarn: spider form has variable AC?
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16:49 < Eronarn> G-Flex: it used to
16:49 < Eronarn> not sure if it still does
16:49 < G-Flex> weird if it does
16:50 < G-Flex> what is/was it based on?
16:50 < st_> for the dragon form elemental thing the problem I see is that you would never never want to use the fire/ice ones because they give you a weakness
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16:50 < st_> iron would be by far the best
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16:50 <+evilmike> the iron dragon form could be slightly slow
16:50 <+evilmike> storm dragon form would be problematic though
16:50 < Eronarn> G-Flex: poison magic
16:51 < Eronarn> also, iron dragon doesn't fly, so there's that
16:53 < Eronarn> (also you could buff iron dragon melee damage)
16:53 < Eronarn> also argh i hate crawl monsters
16:53 < Eronarn> @??iron dragon
16:53 < Gretell> iron dragon (D) | Speed: 8 | HD: 18 | Health: 104-132 | AC/EV: 20/6 | Damage: 25, 25, 25 | Flags: sense invisible, !sil | Res: magic(168), fire, cold, poison, drown | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 2319 | Sp: metal splinters (3d30).
16:53 < Eronarn> @??iron golem
16:53 < Gretell> iron golem (8) | Speed: 7 | HD: 15 | Health: 118-152 | AC/EV: 15/3 | Damage: 35 | Flags: non-living | Res: magic(immune), fire+++, cold+++, elec+++, poison+++, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | XP: 915.
16:53 < Eronarn> @??iron troll
16:53 < Gretell> iron troll (T) | Speed: 7 | HD: 16 | Health: 68-116 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Damage: 35, 25, 25 | Flags: regen | Res: magic(106), fire, cold | Chunks: poison+contam | XP: 826.
16:54 < Eronarn> @??iron gargoyle
16:54 < Gretell> unknown monster: "iron gargoyle"
16:54 < Eronarn> @??metal gargoyle
16:54 < Gretell> metal gargoyle (9) | Speed: 7 | HD: 8 | Health: 28-62 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Damage: 19, 10, 10 | Flags: non-living, fly | Res: magic(64), elec++, poison, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | XP: 205.
16:54 < Eronarn> @??iron devil
16:54 < Gretell> iron devil (4) | Speed: 8 | HD: 8 | Health: 28-62 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Damage: 14, 14 | Flags: demonic | Res: magic(64), hellfire, cold, elec++, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 324.
16:55 < Eronarn> am i missing any
16:56 < Zannick> @?? iron imp
16:56 < Gretell> iron imp (5) | Speed: 8 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-24 | AC/EV: 6/8 | Damage: 12 | Flags: demonic | Res: magic(12), hellfire, cold, elec++, poison, rot, neg+++, torm | Vul: holy++ | XP: 40.
16:59 <+evilmike> @??iron giant
16:59 < Gretell> the iron giant (C) | Speed: 10 | HD: 22 | Health: 220 | AC/EV: 18/2 | Damage: 60 | Flags: !sil | Res: magic(117), fire, cold, poison, drown | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 7793 | Sp: iron shot (3d37), iron elementals.
16:59 <+evilmike> @??iron elemental
16:59 < Gretell> iron elemental (E) | Speed: 6 | HD: 12 | Health: 86-130 | AC/EV: 20/2 | Damage: 40 | Flags: non-living, !sil | Res: magic(immune), fire+++, cold+++, elec+++, poison+++, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | XP: 1086 | Sp: iron shot (3d24), slow, metal splinters (3d27).
17:01 < Eronarn> i'd really like to see this stuff be systematic :(
17:03 <+evilmike> iron dragons and iron trolls are the only of these you'll even see that often
17:03 <+evilmike> most of those are just vault monsters or summons
17:03 < Eronarn> evilmike: they aren't the only examples by any means though
17:03 < Eronarn> @??statue
17:03 < Gretell> statue (8) | Speed: 10 | HD: 8 | Health: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Damage: 20 | Flags: non-living | Res: magic(immune), fire++, cold++, elec++, poison++, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | XP: 561.
17:03 < Eronarn> @??roxanne
17:03 < Gretell> Roxanne (8) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 180 | AC/EV: 20/0 | Flags: non-living, spellcaster | Res: magic(immune), fire++, cold++, elec++, poison++, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | XP: 2672 | Sp: crystal spear (3d32), iron shot (3d26), blink other close, b.magma (3d23), mystic blast (3d19).
17:03 < Eronarn> @??stone golem
17:03 < Gretell> stone golem (8) | Speed: 7 | HD: 12 | Health: 93-123 | AC/EV: 12/4 | Damage: 28 | Flags: non-living | Res: magic(immune), fire+++, cold+++, elec+++, poison+++, drown, rot+++, neg+++, torm | XP: 493.
17:03 <+evilmike> yes, I know
17:03 < Eronarn> oh hey, someone fixed roxanne, that's cool at least
17:04 <+evilmike> crawl has plenty of boring monsters, its just that most of these examples are rare ones. I think effort should be focused on the ones that are actually common (eg porcupines)
17:04 < Eronarn> evilmike: porcupines should just be cut :P
17:05 <+evilmike> spines can supposedly be given to monsters now, so they might actually have a point
17:05 < Eronarn> evilmike: only if they only show up early game. by lair they're irrelevant, and there's other spiny monsters (frogs, at least)
17:06 <@dpeg> early porcupines would be good to show spininess to players
17:06 <@dpeg> so when players get killed by spiny frogs they know what caught them
17:06 < G-Flex> that is not a bad idea
17:06 < Eronarn> they should definitely be cut from the lair list, though, or at least not be super common there
17:06 < Eronarn> right now they're just replacing what used to be rats
17:07 <@dpeg> (similarly to how there should be an early constricting snake -- it doesn't have to do a lot of damage, it should show the mechanic)
17:08 < Eronarn> someone should go make constriction work for leeches
17:08 <@dpeg> leeches is a bit different
17:10 < Eronarn> yeah, but similar enough that we at least have a starting point
17:10 < Eronarn> @??giant leech
17:10 < Gretell> giant leech (w) | Speed: 8 | HD: 6 | Health: 33-57 | AC/EV: 5/15 | Damage: 20(vampiric) | Flags: amphibious, evil | Res: magic(24), drown | Vul: holy | Chunks: contaminated | XP: 87.
17:10 < Eronarn> right now they have the low speed, but end up faster than you in water, which is how they catch up to bite you even if you move
17:10 <@dpeg> which is fitting, right?
17:11 <@dpeg> why is the Vul: holy?
17:11 < Eronarn> dpeg: i envision them attaching. like a reverse constriction
17:11 < Eronarn> because of the (vampiric)
17:11 < Eronarn> (attached leech: loses EV, but is hitting each turn and healing itself by doing so)
17:11 <+|amethyst> I posted an implementable for crawling corpse/macabre mass tiles
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17:13 < G-Flex> this is a really stupid question but what exactly is an "implementable"
17:13 <@dpeg> Eronarn: I'd say their vampiric is a "natural" kind, but what the heck :)
17:13 <@dpeg> G-Flex: if it's coded decently, we'll take it
17:14 < G-Flex> ah
17:14 <+|amethyst> G-Flex:  a bug on mantis, posted by a dev, asking for someone to code (or in this case, draw) something
17:14 < Eronarn> dpeg: we had this issue before with komodo dragons being hated by Zin
17:14 <@dpeg> |amethyst: not just bugs, also new features!
17:14 < Eronarn> for example, my recite code tried to exclude them without specialcasing them... i can't recall if i succeeded
17:14  * dpeg ponders who deserves more remorse: Zin or the komodo waran
17:15 <+|amethyst> s/bug/issue/
17:16 <@dpeg> The very first one was on SF (back then we didn't call them Implementables but tagged them with \o/) when zipcode delivered the slime god is astoundingly short time
17:17 < Eronarn> still no spider god, though
17:17 < Eronarn> or undead reformist god! or gold god! or door god!
17:17 <@dpeg> no plan for one!
17:18 <+evilmike> I posted an implementable for a whole bunch of floor/wall tiles and got about 2x more than I asked for in like 2 days
17:18 <+evilmike> it was pretty impressive
17:18 <@dpeg> evilmike: :)
17:18 < Eronarn> btw, someone do Ring of the Octopus King before .10 freeze :(
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17:18 < Eronarn> it'd be nice to get it in at th same time as octos...
17:18 <+evilmike> although, there is another one I posted for a tricky feature I'd like to see, which has sadly died :P
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17:19 <@dpeg> gold god has to wait for last parts of price reform (nrook has left, so I gotta do it alone, no idea when); spider god has no design as far as I know; undead reformist and door god need details
17:19 < Eronarn> door god has a proposal! it's just bad
17:19 <@dpeg> well, a proposal the devteam could get behind :)
17:20 <@dpeg> jpeg likes the door god a lot but no idea if she'll have any time for that in the next year
17:20 <+evilmike> what are the last parts of the price reform?
17:21 <+evilmike> to me, the major problem with prices currently is just that some items can be unaffordable (without scumming)
17:21 < G-Flex> like randart pearl dragon armours? :P
17:21 <+evilmike> the traditional crawl way of solving this would be to use a stepdown on shop prices
17:21 <@dpeg> heck, I even forgot... got to check the change log... we have done scrolls, potions, jewellery and randart properties
17:21 <@dpeg> evilmike: sounds good to me
17:21 < Eronarn> eeew stepdowns
17:22 <@dpeg> evilmike: would you help out with prices? It's not like I'm not stumbling in the dark anyway. I could use a torch!
17:22 <@dpeg> ah, we also did wands
17:22 <@dpeg> food should be easy, miscellaneous items can be done quick
17:23 <+evilmike> dpeg: sure, although I think item prices are mostly good right now
17:23 < Eronarn> can we just cut misc items? we've been waiting for them to have alternate uses for like 5 versions at least
17:23 <@dpeg> decks
17:23 < Eronarn> i mean the bad ones
17:23 <@dpeg> ah, sure
17:23 <+evilmike> do misc items even show up in shops? Maybe I just gloss over them
17:23 <@dpeg> yes, they do -- at hilarious prices!
17:24 <@dpeg> and implement new ones as they go in... seems good
17:24 < Eronarn> there's persistent argument against removing the stone, especially now that there's febe, but who seriously even uses it nowadays
17:24 <@dpeg> Matthew Zelgadis (second generation dev, gone for a while) had this awesome idea of teleport anchor item
17:25 <@dpeg> Eronarn: it was scummed until 0.7 or so, iirc
17:25 <@dpeg> heteroy, naturally
17:25 <+evilmike> crawl thinks misc items are good, so they mostly serve the purpose of balancing vault loot :P
17:25 < Eronarn> air, fire, is there even a water one i forget what it is if so - all terrible
17:25 < Eronarn> lantern of shadows is mostly for stupid ziggurat tricks
17:25 <+MarvinPA> the lantern is pretty useful in lots of places
17:25 < Eronarn> orbs are lol
17:26 <+evilmike> I like the latern of shadows
17:26 <+MarvinPA> one of the better misc items by a long shot, imo
17:26 < Eronarn> yes
17:26 < Eronarn> but it's still not great
17:26 < Eronarn> i don't think it should be cut, but the game wouldn't be hurt much other than zigs if it were
17:26 <+evilmike> it has a few other uses
17:26 <@dpeg> Abyss, as I learned from Haran
17:27 < Eronarn> evilmike: if we keep stuff just because it has some uses, then stuff just accumulates forever :P
17:27 < Eronarn> one thought: we could just make the lantern into an unrand!
17:27 < Eronarn> (which would justify buffing it)
17:27 <+evilmike> you're talking about an item that is actually decent though. Unlike say, box of beasts
17:27 <+evilmike> which is unquestionably useless, except when you want to block a corridor
17:28 < Eronarn> evilmike: i wouldn't advocate cutting it by itself, but if we're axing a lot of misc items, we might want to not have it be the only one left
17:28 < Eronarn> (there's some argument for the orbs but i think it's a pretty weak one)
17:28 <+evilmike> what orbs?
17:28 <+MarvinPA> orb, singular
17:28 < Eronarn> oh, did seeing get cut?
17:28 <+MarvinPA> yup
17:28 <+evilmike> crawl did once have multiple orbs in version 2.something, instead of runes
17:28 <+evilmike> oh, you're talking about crystal balls
17:28 < Eronarn> then energy should go too :P
17:28 <+MarvinPA> oh right yeah
17:29 <+MarvinPA> balls, not orbs
17:29 <+MarvinPA> ball, not orb*
17:29 <+evilmike> crystal ball of energy would be sad to see cut
17:29 < Eronarn> evilmike: powergamer
17:29 <+evilmike> it's gone through a lot of changes and is actually usable without being a pain in the ass
17:30 <+MarvinPA> it's somewhat reasonable now, yeah
17:30 < Eronarn> my question would be, out of staff of power and orb of energy, is it justifiable to have both?
17:30 < Eronarn> i don't feel that this is the case
17:30 <+MarvinPA> i assume you mean staff of channeling?
17:30 < Eronarn> yes
17:30 < Eronarn> i always get those names mixed up
17:30 <+evilmike> staff of channeling is a completely different effect
17:30 <+MarvinPA> the two are very different
17:30 < jle> cboe has Side Effects, channeling does not. 
17:30 < jle> Aside from the hungering, anyway.
17:31 <+MarvinPA> reliable but slow versus high-risk, high-reward
17:31 < Eronarn> they are different, yes, but they are both wielded items that use the same skill to regain MP when they're evoked
17:31 < Eronarn> i don't feel that having them both adds much value over just having one
17:31 <+evilmike> ball of energy is a large mp gain with risk attached. Channeling is a risk-free low amount of mp with a food cost
17:31 < Eronarn> (adds much value to the game - i've crtainly played characters who used both)
17:31 <+evilmike> they also complement each other, which I think is interesting
17:31 < Eronarn> if by interesting you mean powerful :P
17:32 <+evilmike> both
17:32 <+evilmike> powerful combinations are fun
17:33 < Eronarn> yes, but i'd rather they be a bit more organic than 'find the two +MP evokables and they'll complement each other'
17:33 < Eronarn> anyways, other than ball of energy and shadows there's nothing where there's even dispute, right?
17:34 <+evilmike> the only thing I would change is make channeling be an over-time effect similar to the regen spell, maybe with the condition that you have to stay still
17:34 <+evilmike> this is only to reduce keystrokes though
17:37 <+evilmike> I think the disc of storms is better than most people give it credit for. This is for somewhat... cheaty purposes though
17:37 <+evilmike> (it makes water)
17:39 <+evilmike> the rElec condition makes it really annoying to abuse that feature though
17:49 <+evilmike> hmm, I should clarify, I meant that I used it once as a merfolk. More of a dumb gimmick, but amusing. Also fun way to clear groups of monsters in an open area
18:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * r05cf1571411b /crawl-ref/source/ (chardump.cc mutation.cc mutation.h): Use a formatted_scroller for the mutations screen (edlothiol).
18:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * r8d5145c052a2 /crawl-ref/source/ (mutation.cc output.cc player.cc): Make scales not provide AC for statues.
18:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * rcdf1a03f46f6 /crawl-ref/source/ (mutation.cc mutation.h player.cc): Mark scales as partially suppressed in statue form.
18:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * r1073b0dc0e76 /crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Display the 'A' screen legend properly for vampires.
18:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * r544ce0395792 /crawl-ref/source/mutation.cc: Be more careful about marking mutation status.
18:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * rf23f1d581045 /crawl-ref/source/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into mutation-forms
18:02 <+|amethyst> Did mantis just go down?
18:04 <+elliptic> it seems up now
18:04 <+elliptic> though it was very slow to load
18:11 <+SamB> so, downish then?
18:13 <+|amethyst> it seems to be better now
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18:48 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r50c5e14329cf /crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/features.txt directn.cc): Avoid doubled articles on features, and fix descriptions.
18:52 <@dpeg> very nice, |amethyst 
18:52 ۰۰-- MarvinPA [~MarvinPA@85.210.104.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:52 <@dpeg> btw, do you know that it's awkward to get a pipe on a German keyboard? :|
18:53 ۰۰-- MarvinPA [~MarvinPA@85.210.104.35] has joined ##crawl-dev
18:53 ۰۰-- mode/##crawl-dev [+v MarvinPA] by ChanServ
18:55 <+|amethyst> how do German unix sysadmins live?
18:57 <@dpeg> US keyboards :)
19:18 < CIA-54> elliptic * r2562c6e83120 /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Remove a "magic number" from unarmed attack delay.
19:19 ۰۰-- Wensley [~Wensley@dynamic-acs-72-23-89-126.zoominternet.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
19:20 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r81dea6aead7c /crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Capitalise and add a full stop to item/monster description titles.
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19:34 < CIA-54> |amethyst * rd000b4d720a4 /crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc: Don't confuse the obsolete conjurations book with the current one.
19:35 <+|amethyst> hm... I had really thought there used to be a description for "The open sea" but apparently I was mistaken
19:35 <+|amethyst> Perhaps it could use to, to explain why you can't fly over it
19:36 <+|amethyst> s/use to/use one/
19:36 <@dpeg> yes, let's make one
19:37 <+|amethyst> the wife is calling me to dinner, so be thinking :)
19:37 < Eronarn> Nothing but endless wind and waves, and not a lighthouse in sight. You'd be lost beyond all hope in short order - better not risk it.
19:37 <@dpeg> |amethyst: dig in!
19:37 <+|amethyst> Eronarn:  I like
19:37 <+|amethyst> bbiab
19:37 <@dpeg> Eronarn: that's good, although Mf and Oc might still wonder why they're out of business :)
19:39 < alefury> can you print "you dont want to go there" on trying to enter endless water?
19:39 <@dpeg> alefury: yes, would also work
19:39 < alefury> hm, although telling the player what he wants is... kind of stupid
19:39 < Zannick> Beyond here, the riptide is too strong. You would never return.
19:40 < Eronarn> Zannick: flying
19:40 < Zannick> The riptide is in the air, too!
19:40 < Zannick> :O
19:40 < Zannick> *magic*
19:41 <+MarvinPA> well there's already the "why would you want to do that" canned message, seems like it'd fit just fine
19:42 < Wensley> "the ferocious winds and tides of the open sea thwart your progress"
19:42 < Henzell> Wensley: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
19:43 < Wensley> or maybe just "you seem to strike an arbitrary invisible wall"
19:50 < Zannick> "Are you sure you want to leave the dungeon?"
19:51 < Zannick> and if they say Yes, they have escaped
19:51 < Zannick> but uh, not with the orb
19:52 < Zannick> with the orb it wrenches them to the opposite side of the map :7
19:54 < Wensley> ha
19:54 < Wensley> toroidal shoals
19:55 < alefury> btw, i think octopode zombies dont have a tile
19:55 < alefury> as in placeholder
19:56 < alefury> and the disturbances caused by invisible enemies could maybe use a tile too, although the placeholder looks okay in that case
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19:59 < Wensley> do any devs ever check the merge requests on gitorious, or I should I make a mantis for each merge request?
20:00 < alefury> i think MarvinPA checks them? im not sure though.
20:01 <+|amethyst> it would be nice if the CIA hooks reported those
20:01 < Wensley> I thought they used to
20:01 <+|amethyst> as it is you get messages for commits to existing branches, but not for the creation of a new branch (such as merge-requests/N)
20:01 <+|amethyst> you may be right
20:02 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r552f289c2d1e /crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc: Don't ID polearm brands on reaching attacks.
20:02 < Wensley> was that one right there?
20:03 <+|amethyst> that was a commit to master, which is an existing branch :)
20:03 < Wensley> are you a committer now?
20:04 <+|amethyst> Yes, I was admitted to the devteam a week or so ago
20:04 < Wensley> oh sweet
20:04 < Wensley> congrats
20:04 <+|amethyst> thanks
20:04 < Wensley> now commit my terence patch :)
20:04 <+|amethyst> after I finish up with these bug fixes
20:04 <+|amethyst> I'll look at it
20:04 < Wensley> thanks
20:05 < alefury> spoken like a true dev :)
20:05 < alefury> "later" :P
20:06 < alefury> i was wondering about that dragon slaying thing
20:07 < alefury> i never made the connection to reaching though
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20:12 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r3bf4d2dca2af /crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/features.txt main.cc): Add description, improve message, for open sea (Eronarn, Wensley).
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20:16 <+|amethyst> Wensley:  I'm not sure what I think about that :)
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20:16 < Wensley> |amethyst: I'll make changes if you give feedback :) I really do believe that it's a change for the better without being too out there
20:17 < Wensley> the AF_MUTATE really doesn't proc very often
20:17 < Wensley> like maybe once every 25 hits or something
20:17 <+|amethyst> I'm more concerned that this makes him even weaker
20:17 < Wensley> yeah
20:17 <+|amethyst> since he won't have armour or weapons
20:17 < Wensley> I initially had him at even less hp
20:17 <+|amethyst> also, I'd prefer to keep the name "Terence"
20:17 < Wensley> aw :( but he's so lumpy
20:17 < Wensley> nah that's okay :P
20:17 <+|amethyst> well, I guess "Crazy Yiuf" is precedent
20:18 < Wensley> the fragility thing was something I was worried about
20:18 < Wensley> but I was afraid that if the battle was prolonged then the devs would be even more concerned about excessive mutation
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20:19 < Wensley> however, I am all for giving him his 10 ac back and then giving him a handful of hitpoints
20:20 <+MarvinPA> seems like it'd just make him a lot easier to take out from range, especially with no AC
20:20 < Wensley> how much ac did terence's armor give him
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20:21 <+|amethyst> 1/6 ring mail, 1/2 scale mail, 1/3 chain mail
20:21 < Wensley> where are those probabilities at?
20:21 <+MarvinPA> it's scale usually i think?
20:21 <+|amethyst> mon-gear.cc
20:21 < Wensley> ah, that's a new file to me :P
20:21 <+|amethyst> search for TERENCE
20:21 <+MarvinPA> also looks like you didn't stop mon-gear from trying to give him a weapon/armour
20:21 < Wensley> ha
20:22 < Wensley> I'd be happy to make further refinements and test them as long as I know that it isn't going to be rejected out-of-hand (as I was fearing)
20:22 <+MarvinPA> so 6 ac usually, anyway
20:23 <+|amethyst> Even with the changes we discussed, I'm not comfortable committing it myself without getting feedback from some more senior devs
20:24 <@dpeg> what is the proposal?
20:24 <+|amethyst> dpeg:  turn Terence into a pulsating lump
20:24 < Wensley> dpeg: turn terence into a weak pulsating lump, the biggest change of which is giving him an AF_MUTATE attack
20:24 <+|amethyst> https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/merge_requests/20
20:24 <@dpeg> does he have speech?
20:25 < Wensley> dpeg: yes, the same terrible terence speech as ever, although I removed one where he references his teeth
20:25 <+|amethyst> Once an utterly unremarkable human adventurer, Terence was no stranger to mockery and derision. Haunted by self-doubt, his life was to be forever changed by his fateful discovery of a wand of polymorph; more importantly, though, his body was to be forever changed as well. He had sought to transform himself into something fierce, say, a dragon, or a catoblepas. Fate, however, is rarely so kind.
20:25 <@dpeg> current Terence is a bore, granted, but an early mutator will make players quit and start again, I am afraid
20:26 < Wensley> dpeg: that's part of my hesitation, but is it any worse than yiuf's staff?
20:26 <@dpeg> yes, I think so
20:26 < Wensley> dpeg: in my testing, the mutation attack very rarely went off
20:26 <@dpeg> because you know you will face Yiuf
20:26 <@dpeg> it is a deliberate action
20:26 < Wensley> true
20:27 < Wensley> I'd be happy to make some terence vaults
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20:27 < Wensley> mostly I just feel like the early game deserves a rich tapestry of interesting uniques, and that improving terence is superior to removing him
20:28 <+|amethyst> also, have you tested him with Jiyva?
20:28 < st_> is a pulsating lump interesting in any way though?
20:28 < Wensley> |amethyst: are you likely to find an altar before d:2?
20:28 <+|amethyst> you can find one as early as D:2
20:28 < Wensley> |amethyst: but how likely is that
20:28 < Wensley> not sure of the weights
20:29 <+|amethyst> not very, but out of a few thousand games I've encountered one that early at least two or three times
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20:29 <+|amethyst> also, you might bypass him and encounter him on the way back up
20:29 < Wensley> are mutations scummable with jiyva? can't say I've ever used him
20:30 <+|amethyst> I was talking about the 'fellow slime' aspect
20:30 < Wensley> ah
20:30 < Wensley> hmm
20:30 < Wensley> I'll try that out
20:30 <+|amethyst> including speech etc
20:30 < Wensley> how does dissolution react to jiyva followers?
20:31 <@dpeg> Wensley: I think a mutator unique can be interesting, but I'd add these provisions: better not in the very early game & give some decent loot. For example, if the guy can mutate at range, he could deliver 1-3 potions of cure mutation.
20:31 <@dpeg> Wensley: peaceful
20:31 <+|amethyst> what if you made him speed 9?
20:31 <+|amethyst> I guess nagas would still have to worry
20:31 <@dpeg> |amethyst: not good!
20:31 <@dpeg> it should be a threat
20:31 < Wensley> dpeg: I was considering increasing terence's xp value as a substitute for loot, although I really don't understand the xp modifier stat
20:32 < Wensley> really this is just something I whipped up in five minutes, I really want terence to be at least somewhat improved for 0.10
20:33 <@dpeg> Interesting slow monsters: Gastronok, Grinder, jellies, casters in general. Boring slow monsters: worms, snails etc. Slow unique who can only mutate in melee = boring.
20:33 < Wensley> dpeg: interesting slow monsters = catlobes??
20:33 <@dpeg> catoblepas are great, yes.
20:33 < Wensley> :)
20:34 <@dpeg> put otherwise, any slow monster should have a good excuse for being slow
20:34 <@dpeg> a melee mutating attack is not good enough
20:35 <@dpeg> lorimer had this insane idea once... let me recall
20:35 < Wensley> dpeg: if you're totally set against a mutator unique in the early game I'll try to think of something else to make terence more unique
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20:35 <@dpeg> You have a unique which spawns in ten copies, say. When you encounter one, it is always awake and runs away. If awake, they seek each other, and they are stronger in packs.
20:36 < Wensley> ha
20:36 < Wensley> maybe I will make terence spawn in a band of terences
20:36 <@dpeg> :)
20:36 <@dpeg> Wensley: my issue with an early mutator is that it'll just make our weaker-minded players quit (they already do after /poly incidents)
20:36 < Wensley> the perils of experimenting with translocular magics
20:37 <@dpeg> oh, and if they feel strong enough (say a band of five), they search for you, of course
20:37 <+|amethyst> dpeg:  what if, to compensate, you make /polymorph not generate early?
20:37 < alefury> Wensley: beware the bands spawning in walls bug
20:37 < Wensley> or, how about we leave terence as a jelly, but make him split off into more terences as he gets hit, like a poor man's royal jelly
20:37 <@dpeg> |amethyst: didn't that already happen?
20:37 <+|amethyst> oh, did it?
20:37 <@dpeg> I am fine with it, for the record.
20:37 <@dpeg> elliptic did some early game wand changes, iirc
20:38 ۰۰-- dpeg [~dpeg@dis.angband.pl] has quit [Quit: zzz]
20:38 <+elliptic> wasn't me :)
20:38 <+|amethyst> polymorph isn't on the high-tier list
20:38 < alefury> i thought that was only the big boomsticks
20:38 < alefury> but there may have been other changes
20:38 <+elliptic> reading back over the conversation, I think terence is fine, personally
20:38 <+|amethyst> Wensley:  one game-logical thing:  it's "wand of polymorph other" and you can't use it on yourself
20:39 <+|amethyst> Wensley:  so maybe mention potions of mutation instead
20:39 < Wensley> |amethyst: ha, perhaps
20:39 ۰۰-- alefury [~galefury@B4115.karlshof.wh.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-2011111804 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]]
20:39 < Wensley> if anyone has any other suggestions of what monster to base a polymorphed terence on, let me know
20:39 <+elliptic> I mean, is terence really much less interesting than, say, jessica?
20:39 < Wensley> (giant spore???)
20:40 <@due> unique giant spore, needed!
20:40 < Wensley> at least with jessica I will sometimes immediately walk away if she is still sleeping because she is potentially a threat at range
20:40 <+elliptic> a lot of chars can't take on terence on D:2 either
20:40 < Wensley> I'd still say that doesn't make him unique or interesting
20:41 <+elliptic> he offers different threats from any other unique that early
20:41 < Wensley> what level does edmund start appearing at
20:41 < st_> personally I dislike the "interesting" early uniques
20:41 < st_> it's pretty tiring to get them all the time
20:41 <+elliptic> his flavor could certainly be more interesting but from a gameplay standpoint I don't think he needs anything weird
20:41 < Wensley> I'd be fine just giving him some better flavor
20:41 <+|amethyst> terence is 2-3, edmund 4-9
20:42 < Wensley> although I'd still say a melee unique on level 2 really isn't all that interesting, even if he is quite dangerous
20:44 <+elliptic> it isn't like melee uniques get more interesting as you get deeper
20:44 < Wensley> at least as you get deeper it is possible to increase their threat non-linearly
20:45 <+elliptic> I mean, ignoring flavor I think terence is far better than donald
20:45 < Wensley> ha
20:45 <+elliptic> or maud
20:46 < Wensley> this is true, but I'm focusing on terence right now because early uniques are more visible
20:46 < Wensley> especially to newer players, who will spend all of their time in the early game
20:46 <+elliptic> and even if straightforward melee uniques aren't the most exciting, it would be strange if we didn't have any
20:47 < Wensley> true
20:48 < Wensley> still trying to think of some non-elaborate way to make him slightly more mechanically interesting without resorting to "give him a net" or something lame like that
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20:49 < Wensley> wonder if there is a way to guarantee that some sort of cloud trap will generate near him
20:50 <+elliptic> cloud traps on d:2 are not very exciting
20:51 < Wensley> are they really exciting anywhere, though
20:51 <+elliptic> it should be doable though
20:52 < Wensley> I don't think I've ever hit a cloud trap when an enemy was around
20:52 < Wensley> in that light, guaranteeing a cloud trap near terence (that won't one-shot you) would be the most exciting use of cloud traps in the game
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20:58 < Wensley> what if, instead of giving you some damage evasion, shroud of golubria had a chance to blink away anyone who hit you
20:58 < Wensley> with the same caveats about breaking under damage
20:59 < moxian> maybe it should better blink you? Marksmen would love that.
21:00 < HangedMan> so it changes from making a statue get hit even less to chasing them down
21:00 < Wensley> HangedMan: what are you talking about
21:00 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r606724e4fe5d /crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Allow walls to protect rock worms again.
21:01 < HangedMan> the only time I've bothered to use shroud was with statue form, where the damage evasion was effective with 50 ac and plate armour gdr and ever so unfortunately blinking away things sounds less fun for statue form
21:01 < Wensley> I don't think shroud of golubria is designed to be used by anyone who is capable of having 50 ac
21:02 < HangedMan> heh
21:02 < HangedMan> I was wondering why it was easy to tab through zigs
21:05 <+elliptic> was this while statue form was broken to use str instead of str/3
21:05 < HangedMan> what if a perfectly legit ida ds with rough black scales happens to pick up shroud with such huge ac, is that more or less palatable
21:05 < HangedMan> it was using str/3
21:05 <+elliptic> shroud with huge AC isn't particularly broken afaik
21:05 <+evilmike> Wensley: I could see 50 ac characters using shroud in some cases
21:05  * HangedMan shrugs
21:05 <+elliptic> a single shroud still prevents the same amount of damage, regardless
21:05 <+evilmike> it's useful against ugly thing packs and in slime
21:05 <+elliptic> it is a bit better than that against monsters with special damage (like ice beasts, say)
21:05 <+elliptic> yeah
21:06 < Wensley> elliptic: what I meant was that if you're facing monsters against which 50 ac is necessary, the shroud should be breaking immediately (as I understand it)
21:07 < Wensley> what if I gave terence a single kraken tentacle
21:07 < HangedMan> @??tentacle
21:07 < Gretell> tentacle (w) | Speed: 17 | HD: 12 | Health: 39-58 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 29 | Flags: amphibious, cold-blooded, lev | Res: magic(immune), drown | XP: 0.
21:07 <+elliptic> wensley: well, it uses the AC-reduced damage value
21:08 <+elliptic> because the shroud is under your armour
21:08 < HangedMan> under your stoneskin
21:08 < HangedMan> under your scales
21:08 < HangedMan> ...
21:08 <+elliptic> yes
21:09 <+elliptic> it doesn't necessarily make the most sense, but I didn't want it to be awful on AC chars
21:09 < Eronarn> Wensley: make lumps constrictors? :)
21:09 < Eronarn> they are all gooey
21:09 <+evilmike> I think a relatively limited use of constriction would be good. Just like how only a few things have trample
21:10 < Wensley> hm, true, terence could be the first unique to benefit from constriction (is that even in the game yet?)
21:10 < Wensley> I could just give him tentacle arms
21:10 < Wensley> flavorwise
21:10 < HangedMan> ...what insane experiments are you doing with him
21:12 < Wensley> Terence the octopode shouts!
21:12 < Wensley> Eronarn: how does constriction work? could it be flavormade to just be "this guy has sticky appendages and you are stuck to him"?
21:13 <+evilmike> constriction is supposed to be for stuff that actually wraps around and constricts you
21:13 <+evilmike> not just "being sticky"
21:14 < HangedMan> mildly reminded of the creepypasta involving a giant, massive ball of hooks that inexorably draws people in to be horribly mamed, though
21:14 < HangedMan> combine spines and constriction, even better
21:15 <+|amethyst> The porcupine comes along for the ride!
21:15 < Eronarn> aizul as a constrictor snake makes sense
21:15 <+evilmike> yeah
21:15 < Eronarn> keep enemies there until help arrives
21:17 < Eronarn> hmm, what about giving pulsating lumps regen
21:17 < Eronarn> and renaming regeneration to cigotuvi's regeneration of course :)
21:17 < Eronarn> @??pulsating lump
21:17 < Gretell> pulsating lump (J) | Speed: 5 | HD: 10 | Health: 36-72 | AC/EV: 2/6 | Damage: 13(mutation) | Flags: sense invisible | Res: magic(40), poison, asphyx | XP: 52.
21:18 < Eronarn> then the troll 'you feel a lump in the pit of your stomach' message will finally make sense~
21:19 < HangedMan> I kicked around the idea of pulsating lumps gaining the properties of different form spells to get transmuter representation in, or atleast for a unique
21:20 < CIA-54> dolorous * r5ec793c40d94 /crawl-ref/source/ (effects.cc effects.h): Add formatting fixes.
21:20 < CIA-54> dolorous * rc871c3205f14 /crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Clean up fedhas_fungal_bloom().
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21:32 < CIA-54> |amethyst mutation-forms * r8db3429d246d /crawl-ref/source/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'master' into mutation-forms
21:33 <+|amethyst> I think mutation-forms is probably close to ready to go into master... the display is somewhat better now thanks to edlothiol
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21:38 <+evilmike> Are cloud traps considered to be non-buggy yet?
21:38 <+evilmike> they still have the ultra high 40% chance for testing, I'm wondering if they still need it
21:39 <+elliptic> they also still affect players instantly, which wasn't intentional, but maybe it is okay
21:39 <+MarvinPA> they've been toned down a lot
21:39 <+elliptic> reducing the chance is probably fine
21:39 <+|amethyst> is it intentional that the cloud trap vaults are not transparent?
21:39 <+MarvinPA> and i don't think they're buggy anymore
21:39 <+evilmike> the comment is a bit vague regarding chance:
21:39 <+evilmike> # Currently, each type uses CHANCE: 40%.
21:39 <+evilmike> # This means that you can expect one trap (of any type) per level.
21:39 <+evilmike> # For testing purposes!
21:40 <+evilmike> I'm wondering if I should remove the CHANCE line and just let them be placed by weight. That would make them much, much rarer though
21:41 <+evilmike> It really gives no hint as to what the "intended" chance/weight is
21:41 <+MarvinPA> some of them could really do with reduced weight or being mainly just used in vaults
21:42 ۰۰-- ainsophyao [~ainsophya@wl003j.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:42 <+MarvinPA> like, confusion and poison don't do anything
21:42 <+evilmike> could give those ones tags (like trap_cloud_confusion) or whatever, that would let them be placed using SUBVAULT:
21:42 <+evilmike> probably the easiest way to enable them to be used in vaults, that I can think of
21:43 < HangedMan> well, confusion is a nice less painful way to introduce the general cloud trap concept without it immeadiately threatening you
21:43 <+MarvinPA> also annoying to rest off when there's zero actual threat
21:43 <+evilmike> yeah
21:44 <+MarvinPA> early ice/fire traps are very tame now so they're fine enough as an introduction anyway
21:44 <+evilmike> and you have to use short rest until the cloud goes away, since it blocks long rest
21:44 < HangedMan> could an early fire trap kill a mummy?
21:44 < moxian> on that note petrification cloud is nice, as it insta-rests you
21:44 <+MarvinPA> (those are also probably better in vaults, but at least have item destruction to make them relevant otherwise)
21:44 <+MarvinPA> oh, petrify is another that's bad outside vaults, yeah
21:45 <+MarvinPA> HangedMan: i doubt it, it's only ever going to be a single turn of flamecloud damage
21:45 < HangedMan> 'k
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21:47 <+evilmike> poison traps aren't as bad as confusion and petrification ones
21:48 <+evilmike> poison is like.. the dart trap of cloud traps
21:48 <+|amethyst> then confusion is like the net trap of cloud traps?
21:48 <+evilmike> something like that. although net traps provide nets, which is really their main use
21:52 <+|amethyst> I think I'll go ahead and push this to get player feedback after CDO updates tonight
21:53 <+evilmike> push what?
21:53 <+|amethyst> the mutation-forms cleanup
21:53 <+MarvinPA> oh also, is there a tavern topic for the roguelike of the year thingy? should say we'll put MD back in if we win or something
21:53 <+evilmike> what if crawl wins
21:54 <+MarvinPA> :(
21:54 <+MarvinPA> pretend it was a typo and we meant MB, and bring back megabats
21:55 <+|amethyst> oh, hm... pushing an already-existing commit onto master apparently doesn't trigger CIA either
21:55 <+MarvinPA> hm, looks like dungeons of dredmor has the lead, i've not heard much favourable about that from crawl players but i guess maybe it's more accessible for non-hardcore people?
21:55 <+MarvinPA> never actually got around to picking it up
21:56 <+evilmike> its a newbie roguelike, yes
21:56 < CIA-54> dolorous * r4f2e4ea45164 /crawl-ref/source/mon-abil.cc: Remove unneeded blank line.
21:56 <+evilmike> terrible balance, terrible interface, terrible gameplay, good graphics
21:56 < CIA-54> dolorous * r5c9866e7d0f0 /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-abil.cc mon-util.cc): Consider queen ants and bees female, and properly use pronouns for the latter.
21:56 <+MarvinPA> haha
21:57 <+evilmike> really, though. It has a bad interface that's way too mouse-centric, and lacks (or at least lacked when I played it) crucial features like the ability to rest more than one turn
21:57 <+evilmike> also you regenerate hp over time but there's no food system, some stuff is painfully overpowered while other stuff is weak, etc. Also my favourite part: your attacks are all animated so everything goes really slow
21:58 <+MarvinPA> heh
21:58 < Henzell> MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
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22:28 < CIA-54> dolorous * r97e400739dfb /crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Block berserk for paralyzed, petrif(ying|ied), and sleeping monsters.
22:32 ۰۰-- valrus_ [~valrus@c-98-232-108-145.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
22:34 < CIA-54> evilmike * rb9a50c801f3a /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/traps/cloud_traps.des: Reduce frequency of cloud traps.
22:37 < Henzell> localhost the Grappler (L13 TrBe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1114 failed on turn 30514. (Lair:8)
22:40 <+|amethyst> !lm localhost crash -log
22:40 < Sequell> 1. localhost, XL13 TrBe, T:30514 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/localhost/crash-localhost-20111214-033732.txt
22:42 <+|amethyst> Monster 'DEAD MONSTER' (0, 0) <OoB> [midx = 214] currently acting:
22:42 <+|amethyst> this one from do_trample
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22:48 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r75be98b28b78 /crawl-ref/source/ (travel.cc travel.h): Avoid "Found one items."
22:48 <+|amethyst> oh... that was an 0.9.0 crash
22:49 <+evilmike> wow, you can play 0.9.0 online still?
22:50 ۰۰-- jeanjacques [~jejacques@port-92-200-73-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined ##crawl-dev
22:52 <+|amethyst> apparently CAO has 0.9.0 and not 0.9.1
22:54 <+evilmike> !lg * src=cao x=v
22:54 < Sequell> 886678. [v=0.10-a0] HangedMan the Insei (L3 DsTm), worshipper of Sif Muna, slain by Grinder on D:3 on 2011-12-14, with 147 points after 2045 turns and 0:06:44.
22:54 <+evilmike> !lg * src=cao v=0.9.0
22:54 < Sequell> 50876. firemonkey the Miscreant (L1 KeSt), got out of the dungeon alive. on 2011-12-14, with 20 points after 14 turns and 0:00:46.
22:54 <+evilmike> I wonder if that actually worked..
22:54 <+evilmike> !lg * src=cao v=0.9.0 x=v
22:54 < Sequell> 50876. [v=0.9.0] firemonkey the Miscreant (L1 KeSt), got out of the dungeon alive. on 2011-12-14, with 20 points after 14 turns and 0:00:46.
22:54 <+evilmike> huh.
22:55 ۰۰-- valrus_ [~valrus@c-98-232-108-145.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:59 <+|amethyst> !lm localhost crash x=src,v,cv
22:59 < Sequell> 1. [2011-12-14] [src=cao;v=0.9.0;cv=0.9] localhost the Grappler (L13 TrBe) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1114 failed on turn 30514. (Lair:8)
23:01 <+|amethyst> I'm looking at  5035: You can see poison wearing off on submerged enemies   and it's not really that simple
23:02 <+|amethyst> it's not that you can see the effect on submerged enemies, it's that the enemy might become un-submerged just long enough to see the message but not long enough to actually appear on screen
23:02 <+|amethyst> I guess I should post that as a note on the bug report
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23:14 < CIA-54> dolorous * r65244ca79523 /crawl-ref/source/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Since PRONOUN was changed to PRONOUN_SUBJECTIVE, use the same name elsewhere.
23:14 < CIA-54> dolorous * rb0b78c73bc8c /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Remove unneeded blank lines, and one apparently erroneous %%%%.
23:17 <+|amethyst> hm
23:22 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r84a3c5b9d4a0 /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspeak.txt: Correct the case of a few speech pronouns.
23:25 <+SamB> dolorous: if that %%%% was at the end, that may actually be a good place to have one
23:26 <+|amethyst> it wasn't at the end, but it was separating a section header comment from the entries
23:26 <+SamB> ah
23:26 <+|amethyst> it wasn't the only such occurrence
23:27 <+|amethyst> I assume the empty-but-for-comments sections are skipped by the parser, but I haven't checked
23:27 <+|amethyst> also, I don't know if dolorous can hear you since ashenzari is down
23:27 <+SamB> aren't all ants (excepting only drones) female?
23:30 < CIA-54> dolorous * ra05707687748 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/traps/cloud_traps.des: Add spacing fix.
23:31 <+|amethyst> biologically, yes, but grammatically they're usually inanimate
23:42 < CIA-54> |amethyst * r2f7fd8bd08f9 /crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc: Comment fix.
23:46 < CIA-54> dolorous * r1be08f3805fa /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/monspell.txt: Properly use @reflexive@ in a few more places.
23:46 < CIA-54> dolorous * r50612a70418f /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/wpnnoise.txt: Remove unneeded blank lines.
23:46 < CIA-54> dolorous * r9e1a77e7e1c0 /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/wpnnoise.txt: Fix misformatted line.
23:49 <+|amethyst> "LET'S FONDLE THE w:1 SPERM WHALES, FONDLE THEM!"
23:51 <+|amethyst> oh, I guess that would actually have given just   "BUG, WEIGHT AT END OF ENTRY"
23:51 <+|amethyst> LET'S FONDLE THE BUGS AT END OF ENTRY, FONDLE THEM!
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23:56 < CIA-54> dolorous * r54e01a36806f /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/wpnnoise.txt: Fix apparently misplaced @Your_weapon@.
23:56 < CIA-54> dolorous * r6318c25dec6f /crawl-ref/source/dat/database/wpnnoise.txt: Remove a few more unneeded blank lines, and fix a few comments.
--- Log closed Wed Dec 14 00:00:03 2011