--- Log opened Mon Dec 12 00:00:00 2011
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00:28 < CIA-54> dolorous * rc5917b83d447 /crawl-ref/source/test/monster-name.lua: Change "gnoll sergeant" name to "gnoll lieutenant" in the testsuite.
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00:52 <+SamB> !tell elliptic randbooks are unidentified because they're so obscure
00:52 < Henzell> SamB: OK, I'll let elliptic know.
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01:03 < Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2684-gc5917b8 (32)
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01:18 < Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2684-gc5917b8
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01:31 < DrPraetor> Okay, Octapodes are needlessly difficult to keep alive early on.  I know that's the purpose, but this is getting ridiculous.
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06:00 < Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2673-g2ede7d6
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07:27 <@dpeg> !seen elliptic
07:27 < Henzell> I last saw elliptic at Mon Dec 12 05:38:41 2011 UTC (6h 48m 44s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 252 seconds.
07:27 <@dpeg> !seen MarvinPA_ 
07:27 < Henzell> I last saw MarvinPA_ at Mon Dec 12 07:05:13 2011 UTC (5h 22m 16s ago) joining the channel.
07:28 ۰۰-- G-Flex [swimswim@ip24-250-41-26.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined ##crawl-dev
07:28 < G-Flex> so I just noticed something
07:28 < G-Flex> I have a Ds with claws 1 and slimy scales 1
07:28 < G-Flex> er
07:28 < G-Flex> slimy scales 2, rather
07:28 < G-Flex> my A screen says this:
07:28 < G-Flex> You have sharp fingernails.
07:28 < G-Flex> You are mostly covered in slimy green scales (AC +2).
07:29 < G-Flex> but in the % screen:
07:29 < G-Flex> A: claws 1, AC +2, EV -1
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07:30 < G-Flex> any ideas what's with that EV -1?
07:31 < alefury> green scales used to do that
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07:32 < alefury> maybe the descriptions dont properly align
07:33 < G-Flex> so which is correct
07:34 < alefury> it shouldnt reduce ev anymore. no idea if it does.
07:34 < alefury> anyway, mantis?
07:35 < alefury> irc bug reports tend to get lost if there is no immediate reaction from a dev
07:36 < lorimer> s/if.*$//
07:41 <@dpeg> alefury: (a) there are always bug purging periods, (b) _some_ bug reports stick around forever, that does not mean submitting BRs is a waste
07:41 <@dpeg> saying that means to stop all potential for progress
07:42 < G-Flex> I think you misinterpreted what he said
07:43 < alefury> i think so too
07:44 < alefury> i was saying he should report it on mantis, because bugs only reported on irc tend to get forgotten
07:44 < alefury> especially with no logging
07:45 <+|amethyst> were slimy green the only ones to have EV penalty removed recently?
07:45 < alefury> yes
07:45 < alefury> i think so
07:46 < alefury> i think the only other ones that have an ev penalty are thick black ones, and they get huge ac in return
07:46 < CIA-54> MarvinPA * r09250dda1bc2 /crawl-ref/source/output.cc: Fix % screen display for green scales
07:46 <@dpeg> ah, sorry alefury 
07:47 <+|amethyst> MarvinPA beat me to it :)
07:47 <@dpeg> apology later than bugfix :O
07:47 <+MarvinPA_> :)
07:47 ۰۰-- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA
07:47 < alefury> dpeg: np
07:47 <+|amethyst> alefury:  icy blue and molten have EV penalties
07:48 <+|amethyst> alefury:  rough black have a dex penalty, not ev
07:48 < alefury> ahhh, too many scales
07:48 < alefury> btw, is the blink mutation blink ability supposed to cost hp?
07:48 < alefury> it seems kind of interesting, but 12 hp is so much
07:49 <+MarvinPA> it's a percentage of maxhp, i believe
07:50 < alefury> ah. i was like "ohhh, blink mutation, that's cool" *checks a screen* "Awwwwww. :("
07:50 <+MarvinPA> 5%, yeah
07:50 < alefury> might be more useful for non-DD
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08:04 < alefury> how about a Ds mutation that chaos-brands your unarmed attacks?
08:04 < alefury> or possibly a more useful brand?
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08:05 < alefury> elec branded unarmed might be cool for an elec facet. maybe too strong, though.
08:06 < Ragdoll> chaos brand is the bst brand
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08:06 < alefury> well, it tends to screw you every once in a while, with nothing really positive about it
08:07 < Ragdoll> maybe a more controlled chaos?
08:07 < Ragdoll> as odd as that sounds
08:07 < alefury> that would be spoilery, unless its very controlled
08:08 < alefury> "your unarmed attacks randomly do fire, ice or pain damage"
08:08 < alefury> s/pain/draining
08:08 < alefury> doesnt really fit well into a facet, though
08:08 < Ragdoll> maybe randomly pick every usable weapon brand at random, and chance to inflict ailments that are not berserk/haste
08:09 < Ragdoll> but that would be too overpowered
08:09 < alefury> unarmed is already quite strong, so maybe adding a brand to it isnt a good idea at all
08:09 < alefury> it would be nicely demon-themed, though
08:09 < alefury> and could encourage switching to unarmed
08:15 < alefury> tier 3 facet: ability to cast static discharge (3 MP, breath), rElec, unarmed attacks become elec branded
08:15 < alefury> any good?
08:16 < alefury> oh, also, food cost for static discharge of course
08:16 <+|amethyst> is that tier 3 really?
08:16 <+|amethyst> I mean, compared to hellfire and passive freeze
08:16 < alefury> if anything its too powerful imo, if you actually make use of it
08:16 < G-Flex> <alefury> elec branded unarmed might be cool for an elec facet. maybe too strong, though.
08:17 < G-Flex> this sounds annoying if only because it pigeonholes you into UC
08:17 < alefury> thats the point
08:17 <+|amethyst> also, rewards spoilers
08:17 < alefury> all the ds facets do. maybe swapping the unarmed brand and static discharge might be good
08:17 <+|amethyst> new players won't know that when they get the static discharge ability, they should switch from their weapon skill to UC
08:17 < alefury> but elec brand is super powerful early on
08:18 < G-Flex> all the Ds facets do what
08:18 < alefury> reward spoilers
08:18 < G-Flex> oh
08:18 <+MarvinPA> maybe an elec-branded aux of some sort would be better
08:18 < alefury> this one is a pretty strong offender, though
08:18 <+MarvinPA> not as strong as full elec of course
08:18 <+|amethyst> passive shock :)
08:18 < alefury> MarvinPA: then people dont have to adjust their playstyle
08:18 < alefury> only fight in melee a bit more i suppose
08:18 <+MarvinPA> make it require a free hand!
08:19 <+|amethyst> I think that if people do have to adjust their playstyle, the first mutation in the facet should encourage that adjustment
08:19 <+MarvinPA> so you can go one-hander and no shield and get it, or something
08:19 < alefury> then it would actually have to be as strong as elec for anyone to use it
08:19 < alefury> |amethyst: youre 100% right, yes
08:19 < G-Flex> adjusting playstyle is fine, but I don't like things that require the player to make extremely *specific* adjustments
08:19 <+MarvinPA> not like it'd be hard to make it strong enough to be worth giving up a shield for
08:19 < G-Flex> to get any use out of it
08:19 < G-Flex> like having to choose a particular weapon skill
08:20 < alefury> MarvinPA: i like that a lot. only problem is getting the point across in a single line.
08:20 <+MarvinPA> mm, yeah
08:21 < alefury> "You sometimes shock enemies in melee with a free hand"
08:21 < alefury> :/
08:21 < Eronarn> this doesn't sound particularly interesting/fun
08:21 < Eronarn> remember, we used to have draining touch as a DS mut
08:21 < alefury> draining sucks, though, and elec is good
08:21 < G-Flex> an elec facet itself sounds like it could be fun
08:22 < Eronarn> elec facet that gives your sixfirhy speed
08:22 < Ragdoll> replace static discharge with chain lightning
08:22 < alefury> well, thought process behind what i wrote: static discharge encourages melee. rElec encourages actually using static discharge whenever you are in melee, especially with multiple enemies. free extra melee damage = big ass cherry on top.
08:22 < Eronarn> replace Ragdoll's idea with a good one
08:23 < Eronarn> alefury: what about, instead, a chance to cast static discharge when you are hit
08:23 <+MarvinPA> unarmed elec aux could arc to adjacent enemies when you hit them
08:23 < G-Flex> so similar to passive freeze
08:23 < alefury> i think there are too many of those already
08:23 < alefury> spiny mut too
08:23 < G-Flex> Eronarn: how would that interact with having allies, though
08:23 <+MarvinPA> similar concept but triggers when you hit stuff instead of the opposite which there's already quite a lot of, yeah
08:23 < Eronarn> G-Flex: poorly, presumably
08:24 < alefury> so basically sometimes static discharge on attack?
08:24  * G-Flex has bad memories of Ds of oka
08:24 < Eronarn> ps someone code the chaos facet i have up on the wiki
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08:25 < alefury> im this close to actually getting the crawl source and starting to code a bit
08:25 < alefury> theres some other stuff i want to do, but Ds facets seem pretty easy and fun
08:25 < Eronarn> we really need chaos spawn that breathe chaos breath
08:25 <+MarvinPA> roughly the same as SD except with power depending on mutlevel, or maybe just one guaranteed arc or whatever
08:25 < G-Flex> spiny is probably my least favorite Ds mutation
08:25 < Eronarn> then possibly also a chaos dragon
08:25 <+MarvinPA> anyways, off to get some lunch, bbiab
08:26 < G-Flex> is mapping still a tier 2 mutation?
08:26 < G-Flex> or was that removed?
08:26 < alefury> mapping is gone
08:26 < G-Flex> good
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08:27 < alefury> hm, one way to reduce spoileryness of Ds: more facets, and more facets that share the first or first two mutations
08:28 < alefury> also makes them less scummable
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08:29 <+Cryp71c> Morning
08:29 < Henzell> Cryp71c: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them.
08:29 <+Cryp71c> !messages
08:30 <+Cryp71c> !messages
08:30 < Henzell> (1/3) kilobyte said (4d 22h 4m 13s ago): is there any reason to call melee_attack::apply_damage_brand() for a dead person for brands other than elec and vamp?  The rest is irrelevant, gives wrong messages or is otherwise problematic.
08:30 < Henzell> (1/2) |amethyst said (4d 21h 19m 42s ago): Has UCC fixed #4376 (Vorpal brands showing anomlously low damage on death)?
08:30 <+Cryp71c> !messages
08:30 < Henzell> (1/1) |amethyst said (3d 13h 13m 5s ago): A new UCC crash, this one probably related to krakens and tentacles: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/magistern/crash-magistern-20111209-001357.txt
08:30 <+|amethyst> The kraken one might not be UCC related after all
08:30 < alefury> Cryp71c: also 0 damage attacks dont wake up enemies
08:30 <+|amethyst> minmay had a similar crash that didn't involve melee at all
08:31 < alefury> and staff of foo damage does not wake up enemies
08:31 < alefury> hilarity ensues
08:31 < alefury> also theres a crash report on mantis (melee against obelisk) that may be already fixed
08:32 <+Cryp71c> |amethyst, k, re 4376, it probably will still be applicable, brand damage is still calculated the same as it was previously (separate from the attack-damage).
08:32 <+Cryp71c> alefury, I'll look on mantis for the crash.
08:33 <+|amethyst> Cryp71c:  I think you answered that one already, but thanks
08:34 <+Cryp71c> yeah I think so too :)
08:34 <+Cryp71c> but I couldn't be sure.
08:36 < alefury> Cryp71c: its 5024
08:36 <+Cryp71c> thanks
08:36 < alefury> note the version
08:38 <+Cryp71c> ? its 0.10 dev version..?
08:38 <+Cryp71c> What's so special about it?
08:38 < alefury> advanced view has the hash, i think its from before you fixed those melee crashes with the noise message
08:39 <+|amethyst> 0.10-a0-2379-g54508d0 which is two weeks old
08:39 <+Cryp71c> Ah, yeah the description does sound very familiar, I'll compile from trunk and test locally, thank.
08:39 <+Cryp71c> thanks*
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08:43 <+|amethyst> diamond obelisk is a statue, so this was probably the AT_WEAP_ONLY bug
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10:52 < Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2685-g09250dd (32)
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11:06 < CIA-54> dolorous * re1b4e1f38f2e /crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Update comments on throwable object stats.
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11:14 <@dpeg> What do you think of reducing jelly speed from 9 to 8?
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11:27 < alefury> i presume the goal is making them easier to kite, as per the tavern post?
11:28 < alefury> depends on whether you actually want to encourage kiting
11:28 < alefury> reducing other stats or increasing depth and making them speed 11 might be better
11:28 <+MarvinPA> i'm not convinced that they're a problem, but i generally don't bother wasting time kiting them to kill them
11:28 <+MarvinPA> if i don't have an easy way of killing them then i just leave them alone
11:29 < alefury> could just give them less hp and fast regen
11:30 <+MarvinPA> seems like "you don't have to kill everything" is a valuable lesson to teach early on, anyway
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11:31 <+MarvinPA> and it seems like jellies could maybe help accomplish that as-is, dunno
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11:32 <+elliptic> I think jellies are fine as-is
11:32 <+elliptic> speed 9 means that sometimes they are actually dangerous
11:32 <+elliptic> you don't always have room to kite them at speed 9
11:35 <@dpeg> alefury: yes
11:35 <@dpeg> ok!
11:36 <+MarvinPA> speaking of constriction (in ##crawl), has anyone else had a chance to look at the branch yet?
11:36 <@dpeg> another one: is anyone able to review the constriction patch?
11:36 <+MarvinPA> haha
11:36 <@dpeg> :)
11:36 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: did you?
11:36 <+MarvinPA> i've got it checked out locally and have played with it a little
11:36 <@dpeg> does it work?
11:37 <+MarvinPA> seems to function nicely, yeah
11:37 <@dpeg> assuming that there are np bugs, the one bit that needs testing is Snake
11:37 <+MarvinPA> i suggested a few tweaks, but the base implementation seems to be there and working
11:38 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: what do you suggest?
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11:38 <+MarvinPA> mainly for things like how teleportation is handled
11:38 <+MarvinPA> i think the implementation in the branch blocks it entirely if the constrictor is bigger than you, and otherwise the constrictor teleports with you
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11:39 <+MarvinPA> which could be fine, just a matter of making it very clear when teleport is blocked and when it's not
11:39 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: yes, that was what galehar proposed
11:39 <@dpeg> !seen kilobyte 
11:39 < Henzell> I last saw kilobyte at Mon Dec 12 11:38:29 2011 UTC (5h 1m 22s ago) joining the channel.
11:41 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: perhaps a -TELE flag if constricted by a bigger opponent?
11:41 <+MarvinPA> that might be simplest, yeah
11:42 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: is there a Constrict flag or similar already?
11:42 <+MarvinPA> it shows up as a status light, yeah
11:43 <@dpeg> good, so -TELE should sit next to it and get the same colour
11:46 < alefury> im not sure allowing tele at all when constricted still makes sense
11:46 < alefury> smaller enemies can never constrict you
11:46 < alefury> might just be simpler and much more clear to always block tele when constricted
11:48 <@dpeg> also a huge nerf (to players)
11:48 < alefury> well, of course, but maybe more interesting
11:48 <+MarvinPA> bringing stuff with you when you teleport is such a cool effect though :P
11:48 < alefury> tele is currently "get out of jail, no matter what"
11:49 < alefury> tactically blocking it is nice imo
11:49 <+elliptic> alefury: not really
11:49 < alefury> taking the enemy with you is super cool, and also a strong restriction on teleport
11:49 <+elliptic> it takes multiple turns and without cTele it might not help (or make things worse)
11:49 < alefury> yes, of course, but it always works
11:49 <+elliptic> no
11:49 <+elliptic> sometimes it doesn't move you at all :P
11:50 < alefury> yes, and enemy teleporters can cancel it...
11:50 <+elliptic> anyway I'm not objecting to constriction blocking it, just to the sentiment that it is a guaranteed escape currently
11:50 <+MarvinPA> anyway, i'd like someone else have a look over the branch to check there's no major problems that i missed before merging if possible :P
11:51 <@dpeg> elliptic: could you?
11:51 <+MarvinPA> and then it'd be a lot easier to address teleport issues and so on once it can actually be playtested
11:51 <@dpeg> (I still have problems checking out branches, and I won't discover the truth right now.)
11:51 <@dpeg> MarvinPA: yes
11:51 <@dpeg> I have no idea how hard Snake:5 is now for the various playing styles... that's the biggest question, in my opinion.
11:52 <+elliptic> I might be able to take a look sometime in the next few days, yeah
11:52 < alefury> easy if you go there just before zot, hard otherwise, very hard without rP
11:52 < alefury> also depends on what ending you get
11:52 < alefury> the fire one is a bit harder imo
11:54 < alefury> generally it can be postponed until you can handle zot, so unless a rune lock is introduced snake difficulty doesnt matter much. maybe toning down all nagas a little to compensate for constriction might be good, though. Nagas arent just on snake:5 after all
11:55 < blueDave> howdy
11:55 < alefury> probably best to just wait and see how hard it gets
11:55 < blueDave> atting -tele when constricted by something larger would be pretty easy
11:55 < blueDave> adding
11:56 <@dpeg> blueDave: probably easiest on the interface
11:56 < blueDave> that's what I mean
11:56 < blueDave> wouldn't want it to be an actual attribute, right?
11:57 < blueDave> one thing is broken, you escape an anaconda and it constricts again the same turn, trying to think of a way to keep that from happening
11:57 < alefury> escape = escape + movement in the direction you pressed?
11:57 < blueDave> yes
11:58 < alefury> so its only an issue with fast enemies?
11:58 < blueDave> but the snake is faster and catches up
11:58 < blueDave> right
11:58 < alefury> well, that at least makes sense
11:58 < alefury> it sounds annoying, but consistent
11:58 < blueDave> just varies from the wiki proposal
11:58 < alefury> not really
11:58 < blueDave> suppose if you escape from a naga it might work out ok
11:59 < alefury> anyway, bye for now
11:59 < blueDave> how many HP is normal for the player at the time they first encounter anacondas?
12:00 < alefury> there is one in jungle book
12:00 < blueDave> right now it has a constrict for max 30, bite for max 30, which is going to be pretty substantial
12:00 < alefury> thats usually the first one i see?
12:00 < alefury> other than that i think theyre in snake and rarely in mid dungeon?
12:01 < alefury> so generally later than lair:8
12:01 < alefury> hp varies wildly between characters
12:01 < alefury> really bye now :)
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12:23 <@dpeg> blueDave: the individual constricting monsters (especially early-ish snakes) will be revisited anyway
12:27 <@dpeg> gotta go, thanks for the patch, hope it'll go in soon enoug
12:27 <@dpeg> h
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12:49 < alefury> the uc description seems outdated and misleading
12:50 < alefury> shields description doesnt mention that it reduces shield penalties
12:50 < alefury> bored now, no more descriptions
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13:00  * SamB wonders why the scoring of wizmode games is a compile-time option, rather than being a setting
13:02  * SamB thinks it wouldn't take much codespace to make it a setting, could save a good bit of recompiling, considering the main point of it being off is to avoid flooding one's local highscore list with wizmode games ...
13:07 < alefury> why even allow switching it on?
13:07 <+SamB> alefury: testing, duh
13:08 <+SamB> of the scoring code
13:08 <+SamB> and related things
13:08 < alefury> ah, right
13:08 <+SamB> so you can set up a situation and make sure it is recorded appropriately in the score files and stuff
13:10 <+SamB> heck, it might make sense to just have a wizmode command to toggle it
13:10 <+SamB> dunno
13:11 < alefury> well, wizmode is on in the downloadable packages
13:11 < alefury> and those are what most crawl players play
13:12 < alefury> slightly nudging people towards not cheating is good
13:12 < alefury> for that reason i like that its not an option, and i especially like that its not a wizmode command
13:14 <+SamB> you do know that wizmode entries are tagged as such in the list?
13:14 <+SamB> the main issue with having the option set to "on" is that it could result in the highscore list being filled with wizmode scores
13:15 < alefury> cheat ==> doesnt count
13:15 < alefury> much stronger message than just marking stuff
13:15 <+SamB> we could just change the marking to (cheater) instead of (WIZ), maybe?
13:16 < alefury> :)
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13:16 < alefury> i think most cheaters savescum instead of wizmoding anyway, simply because its much easier to find out about than wizmode
13:16 <+SamB> is it really ?
13:16 < alefury> (i also used to do this, to see more of crawl)
13:17 < alefury> game deletes your saves when you die ==> back up your saves
13:17  * SamB thinks he was using wizmode before he learned that you could have more than one save for a given gametype
13:17 < alefury> anyone with a shred of computer skills can come up with that
13:17 <+SamB> oh, yeah
13:17 <+SamB> I could figure *that* out, I guess
13:18 < alefury> also, its kind of reactive, while wizmode is proactive
13:18 < alefury> if you just back up your saves, you might still get through without actually using the backups
13:18 < alefury> if you enable wizmode, it doesnt count, even if you never use it
13:19 <+SamB> That's why I only turn on when I intend to use it more-or-less immediately
13:19 <+SamB> generally when I'm trying to, you know, *test* something
13:20 < alefury> anyway, if this would make compiling noticeably faster, i think this stuff is a secondary concern
13:20 < alefury> or save recompiling
13:20 <+SamB> it wouldn't make compiling faster so much as avoid the need to recompile when you want to turn the option on/off
13:20 < alefury> do you actually test scoring a lot?
13:21 < alefury> it still produces morgues with a score, right?
13:21 <+SamB> I guess I'll look into it next time I feel like testing scoring
13:21 <+SamB> well, I was thinking more about the computer-readable score files used by Henzell et al...
13:22 <+SamB> and no, I don't try this that often
13:23 <+SamB> and I guess if I were going to, like as not I'd take the lazy route and just use GDB to turn off wizmode ...
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14:06 <+edlothiol> !tell kilobyte could you take a look at the tiles-monster-info branch? I think it can be merged, but I'd be more comfortable if someone else looked over it, at least regarding the saving/loading changes
14:06 < Henzell> edlothiol: OK, I'll let kilobyte know.
14:09 < alefury> !rng go_grab_curare dont
14:09 < Henzell> The RNG chooses: go_grab_curare.
14:09 < alefury> bah
14:10 < alefury> oh, sorry, wrong channel
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14:23 < blueDave> re: wizmode scoring -- what if it were an environment variable -- thus easy to flip but not necessary to document in the init?
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14:25 <+SamB> blueDave: could work
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18:58 <+kilobyte> alefury: having DS with sixfirhy speed wouldn't be that interesting (even a single level of MUT_FAST would be one of best facets), having sixfirhy jerkiness could be game-changing
18:58 < Henzell> kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
18:59 <+kilobyte> perhaps even enough to balance being fast, as being unable to respond for a couple of turns can be deadly
19:01 <+kilobyte> hmm, actually... an interesting downside over a not interesting by itself boost, that's interesting in the end :p
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19:49 < alefury> i didnt suggest sixfirhy speed
19:55 <+kilobyte> doh, I've misread it while speed-reading the scrollback
19:55 <+kilobyte> the comment stands, though
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21:09 < CIA-54> dolorous * r8f5fe7067238 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Remove more doubled articles in some portal vault descriptions.
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21:18 < Wensley> what version of libncurses do I need to build crawl?
21:18 < Wensley> I'm guessing either 5 or w5
21:19 <+elliptic> iirc you need w
21:19 <+kilobyte> -w, exact version shouldn't matter
21:20 < Wensley> thanks
21:22 < Zannick> and probably -dev
21:23 < Zannick> libncursesw5-dev is what i have installed
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22:04 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: mon_info.{two_weapons,no_regen) is static info, there's no need to save them (they're functions of type and base_type)
22:05 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: that use of mon_info.mon() in directn.cc is a bug and a potential info leak
22:06 <+kilobyte> edlothiol: for using grid-based pos() in mon_info: the concept is that everything in mon_info is known to the player, already censored; that's why it used clumsy player-based coordinates
22:07 <+kilobyte> not sure if there's a need to be strict there
22:07 <+kilobyte> heavily breaks encapsulation and clarity, for sure -- but you may be right that it's too much hassle to convert coordinates every time
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22:30 < Wensley> how does one push to their gitorious repository
22:30 < Wensley> git push is just telling me that I should consult the repository page for the correct url, which is unhelpful
22:31 < Wensley> unless this protocol error is actually an auth error
22:34 <+kilobyte> what protocol are you trying to push over?
22:34 <+kilobyte> usually it's only ssh
22:34 < CIA-54> kilobyte * raa25b4c9a230 /crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Don't let Control Undead, Cause Fear and Mass Confusion work through glass.
22:35 <+SamB> Wensley: yeah, who knows whether/how you can push via https!
22:36 < CIA-54> SamB * r6a792d9388d2 /crawl-ref/ (settings/runrest_messages.txt source/food.cc): Better handling of nausea ending when player has corpses, but mightn't be hungry
22:36 <+kilobyte> technically, there's http PUT
22:36 < CIA-54> SamB * r3c03a4ff414d /crawl-ref/source/ (player-equip.cc player.cc): Different message for =tele when player already had teleportitis.
22:36 <+SamB> I'm pretty sure *git* supports HTTPS push
22:36 <+SamB> but I'm not sure if gitorious does, or how to make it work in any case
22:37 <+kilobyte> webdav or regular http with some extension?
22:37 <+SamB> I'm not sure
22:37 <+kilobyte> PUT is so rarely implemented outside of webdav so I'd count it as "extension"
22:38 <+SamB> it could be neither!
22:38 <+SamB> (it could actually be something a CGI can do)
22:39  * SamB checks the source
22:39 <+SamB> okay, judging by the defines at the top of the file, it looks like it's probably DAV
22:40 <+SamB> and also it looks like DAV many other important methods besides PUT
22:41 <+SamB> kilobyte: oh, it looks like they ALSO have a way to do it using some sort of RPC
22:43 <+SamB> ... or maybe the RPC is an abstracting push uses to talk to http-backend.c ?
22:43 <+SamB> no, no, looks like http-backend is actually server side ...
22:45 <+SamB> ... for a POST/GET-based interface. (It might be what they call REST, even.)
22:45 <+kilobyte> yeah, DAV is pretty much a filesystem rather than single-shot resource retrieval (like GET/HEAD/POST)
22:45 <+kilobyte> git can do POST?  interesting
22:46  * SamB hunts for the client side for this one
22:48 < Wensley> thanks, weird that I never noticed that you couldn't push over git:// before
22:49 < Wensley> git remote -v lists both a fetch and push remote for origin, is there a way to set them individually?
22:49 <+SamB> see git-config(1)
22:50 <+kilobyte> not sure why would you want to do that, though
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22:50 <+kilobyte> if you can push over ssh, you can fetch over ssh as well
22:50 < Wensley> yeah, I guess I could do that :P
22:51 <+SamB> hmm, it looks like the REST-ish API is for the *smart* protocol
22:51 <+SamB> and DAV is used as a fallback
22:51 ۰۰-- DrPraetor|2 is now known as DrPraetor
22:51 <+SamB> the control logic seems to be in remote-curl.c
22:51 < DrPraetor> Okay, who votes I should go ahead and play tipsy, and see if I can throw away another perfectly good midgame OpEE?
22:51 < DrPraetor> Mischan.
22:54 <+SamB> funny how the *dumb* HTTP protocol seems to take so much more code ;-)
22:54 <+kilobyte> no need to work around
22:57 <+|amethyst> I'm cleaning up the forms-and-mutations handling and looking over the mutations again.  Should speed and slowness be suppressed in forms?
22:58 <+MarvinPA> they are currently, aren't they?
22:58 <+|amethyst> only when innate
22:58 <+MarvinPA> ahh
22:58 <+MarvinPA> well
22:58 <+SamB> doesn't that make a certain amount of sense ?
22:59 <+MarvinPA> seems good to be consistent there, probably
22:59 <+SamB> bah
22:59 <+SamB> tis a hobgoblin ;-P
22:59 <+SamB> doesn't taste that great
22:59 <+MarvinPA> also, <3 for cleaning that up, it's been weirdly handled for ages
23:00 <+kilobyte> wait, slowness doesn't apply when transformed?
23:00 < CIA-54> dolorous * r33f746567c45 /crawl-ref/source/ (mon-act.cc mon-stuff.cc): Clean up the killer bee larva upgrading-through-eating routine.
23:00 <+|amethyst> it does right now, unless it's innate (nagas)
23:00 <+|amethyst> err
23:01 <+|amethyst> sorry
23:01 < Eronarn> it's a pretty tricky question as to which is better, imo
23:01 <+|amethyst> fast doesn't apply if shapechanged and fast is innate
23:01 <+|amethyst> slow doesn't apply if shapechanged
23:01 <+|amethyst> "shapechanged" here includes statue
23:03 <+kilobyte> there should be some feedback about this
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23:04 <+|amethyst> I'll leave fast/slow as it is for now
23:04 <+kilobyte> like, my current DrTm has MUT_SLOW, Dragon Form and now almost Necromutation... but if dragon sheds slowness but lich doesn't, there's little reason to push there
23:05 <+kilobyte> if folks like me (not exactly unspoiled...) don't know such things, there's some serious documentation issue
23:07 <+|amethyst> My plan is, for the mutations with the new flag (form_based), display some annotation in the mutations screen about forms
23:08 <+SamB> you mean besides "people don't read the documentation"?
23:08 <+|amethyst> but there are still complexities... some mutations work in statue form and some don't
23:09 <+|amethyst> and claws doesn't work in blade form
23:09 <+|amethyst> (and a few other weird ones)
23:09 <+SamB> should probably, like, grey them out or something when disabled ?
23:09 <+|amethyst> yeah, that's my plan
23:09 <+|amethyst> would also affect vampires
23:10 <+|amethyst> player_mutation_level will (depending on a flag) check both vampire hunger and forms
23:10 <+kilobyte> ghrmdamn, sixxs is down
23:11 <+kilobyte> SamB: good point about documentation
23:11 <+kilobyte> but whether it's read or not, such data should be there
23:11 <+SamB> I mean, people read it sometimes when they *know* they're clueless about something *and* it's easy to find 
23:11 <+SamB> yeah, not saying it shouldn't be
23:11 <+kilobyte> true...
23:12 <+SamB> darn, I had a thought then lost it
23:12 <+SamB> I don't know what it was!
23:13 <+kilobyte> I wonder, perhaps this code could be moved to player_mutation_level()
23:14 <+kilobyte> right now it does nothing but check for vampires
23:14 <+|amethyst> I'm doing that
23:15 <+|amethyst> At least for the stuff I've touched
23:15 <+|amethyst> probably all the other special cases should be there too
23:18 < CIA-54> dolorous * rd2e83ec0376b /crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc: Add comment: What to do about monster Death's Door for enslaved souls?
23:20 <+SamB> ??dolorous
23:20 < Henzell> I don't have a page labeled dolorous in my learndb.
23:21 <+SamB> !learn add dolorous despite never being on IRC, has an uncanny tendancy to react to things people say in ##crawl-dev
23:21 < Henzell> dolorous[1/1]: despite never being on IRC, has an uncanny tendancy to react to things people say in ##crawl-dev
23:23 <+evilmike> this channel does have public logs
23:23 < Henzell> evilmike: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
23:23 <+evilmike> oh no
23:23 <+evilmike> !messages
23:23 <+evilmike> !messages
23:23 < Henzell> (1/2) minqmay said (6h 38m 57s ago): drpraetor has apparently had unavoidable deaths as a TrBe
23:23 < Henzell> (1/1) minqmay said (6h 38m 27s ago): and yes, that is deaths, plural
23:23 < Wensley> MarvinPA: is there some protocol for doing merge requests on gitorious, for I have just filed one
23:24 < DrPraetor> Ah... I think only one was truely *unavoidable*.
23:25 < DrPraetor> And even then, if I *had* somehow identified my potions before going downstairs into Sigmund+Ogre, and thus had *known* that I had no healing potions, I might have lived if I'd attempted to fight through the confusion instead of drinking potions and hoping for a healing.
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23:38 < st_> evilmike: what's the thing you're working on?
23:38 <+evilmike> rewrote the iron grate trap
23:39 <+SamB> evilmike: I know
23:39 <+SamB> I just thought it sounded more badass that way ;-P
23:56 < CIA-54> evilmike * r1243efd587a5 /crawl-ref/source/dat/des/traps/grate.des: Rewrite grate traps; add several new ones.
--- Log closed Tue Dec 13 00:00:01 2011