00:01:37 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2379-g54508d0 (32) 00:01:42 <|amethyst> I have a fix for 4969, moment 00:01:55 <|amethyst> well, actually, let me try something else first 00:05:16 dolorous: did you hear that? 00:05:29 one commit for yes, two for no 00:09:50 * SamB wonders why |amethyst hasn't been hazed yet 00:12:05 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2379-g54508d0 00:12:48 so, how come |amethyst isn't a committer yet? 00:13:31 kilobyte, Napkin: ? 00:21:53 <|amethyst> that was like four or five different bugs, btw :) 00:23:12 <|amethyst> https://gitorious.org/~neilmoore/crawl/neilmoore-crawl/commit/bd48775 00:32:40 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:43:21 <|amethyst> and a few more messaging things: https://gitorious.org/~neilmoore/crawl/neilmoore-crawl/commit/66f00db 00:44:20 <|amethyst> I think all the remaining instances of "[tT]he %s" and "[aA] %s" are necessary (i.e. there's no item or monster to use DESC_THE/DESC_A with) 00:57:01 Ouch message is possible from poison (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4970) by Pteriforever 01:08:29 <|amethyst> btw, it looks like #4960 should also be fixed by bd48775 01:09:29 <|amethyst> and 4959 (though maybe it shouldn't say both "It affects your health (+15)." and "This famed ring greatly improves its wearer's health.") 01:14:05 <|amethyst> oh, those are fixed by the commit that already went in 01:18:24 <|amethyst> The following bugs have been fixed and should be marked as resolved: 4943 (7c8b1c8), 4947 (80a398b), 4954, 4955, 4959, 4960 (f6aaac5) 01:30:25 <|amethyst> one more commit: https://gitorious.org/~neilmoore/crawl/neilmoore-crawl/commit/20fcd5e (fixes 4953 by only including item origins in the verbose description) 01:43:13 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:12 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:33:55 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:11 03elliptic * r552ec141da4d 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Fix AEVP formula (|amethyst). 02:53:08 <|amethyst> I put the messaging fixes into a MR, https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/merge_requests/19 02:54:53 <|amethyst> though I guess now it needs rebasing 03:11:22 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:47 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:08 baz (L1 VpNe) ASSERT(!n_users || CrawlIsCrashing) in 'package.cc' at line 180 failed. (D:1) 03:33:23 !tell cryp71c Currently monsters with special attack flavors (e.g. AF_COLD) get to use those flavors even if they do 0 damage... this is a large nerf to heavy armour chars 03:33:24 elliptic: OK, I'll let cryp71c know. 03:34:15 elliptic: Why isn't Xom stimulated if you drink blood from a sparkling fountain? 03:34:31 Nvm, it can't even be blood... 03:34:50 !tell cryp71c Note that this is a different from how many player effects are supposed to work... elec brand, pain brand, enhancer staves, and so on are all supposed to work even if you do 0 damage with the physical part of the attack 03:34:51 elliptic: OK, I'll let cryp71c know. 03:43:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:47:16 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:52 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:59:35 Ok, patch done for fountain death. 03:59:46 Gonna upload it when opera stops crashing... 04:00:59 Fountian death? 04:02:14 due: If you https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4961 04:02:25 I was gonna write something but I linked instead :P 04:03:48 Oh :) 04:05:05 Patch uploaded. 04:05:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:54 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 04:09:35 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:13:37 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:18:25 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 04:38:38 !seen dpeg 04:38:38 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:38:38 I last saw dpeg at Fri Nov 25 02:21:08 2011 UTC (3d 8h 17m 30s ago) joining the channel. 04:43:11 elliptic: i think enhancer staves didnt do damage on 0 damage staff attack pre-ucc? 04:43:42 but i might be completely wrong 04:48:24 -!- Pingas has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:48:28 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:08 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:20 doors "covered in warnings" with no glass have to go (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4971) by KiloByte 05:02:08 kilobyte: here I am 05:06:34 dpeg: oh :) 05:11:04 All doors on sale! No payments until 0.12! Everything must go! 05:12:27 kilobyte: one thing I always meant to say regarding food: I don't think we can reasonably balance for all stages of the game. I know that you like the extended content very much, but I don't understand the reasoning behind "eveyone should be able to do it" (as in: lack of food should not stop such attempts). We don't even care to make simple wins guaranteed, why do the same for special ones? Also, if you're about to do a full win and hampered with bad mutat 05:13:29 yeah, that's why I insist only on giving some very minimal supply 05:14:00 damn wake-on-lan is broken, can't get to commits I left at home :( 05:14:33 I went through the food vaults to ensure they give a reasonable nutrition -- especially with nutrition labels 05:14:38 ok 05:15:12 standardizing at an equivalent of four bread rations in the second vault 05:15:19 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:24 (as in, I added nutrition labels to all of the vaults but didn't finish rebalancing the new ones yet -- but the exact state is moot until I get back home :p) 05:17:03 or my home box decides to answer the wake-up signal 05:18:44 I read you don't like new Hive, but can we enable it nonetheless? 05:19:31 sure 05:19:46 not right now due to save compat issues, but I'll finish up and merge the level_type overhaul before 0.10 05:20:14 however, I fail to see any point in Spider for 0.10 though 05:20:27 ok :( 05:20:32 can be rushed but there's no way it could be tested and balanced in half a month 05:20:43 yes, better to wait 05:20:56 a completely new branch is massive... we have delayed Shoals twice 05:21:52 on the other hand, I looked at Dwarf... I gave up at writing a map generator for it but it could be done another way: with heavy subvault use 05:22:41 one level or full branch? 05:22:45 blue_anna left quite a bunch of component vaults, we could try joining them with connectors using subvaults 05:22:54 one level 05:23:12 people complain that Elf is boring, I'd shave two levels off Elf instead 05:24:05 I mean, the last time cutting Elf was discussed, 7->5 was supposed to be making up for the "coming very soon" Dwarf but let's make it the compensation for 5->3 instead :p 05:24:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:33 evilmike did some tweaks to dwarf monsters recently 05:27:01 another thing: the holy Pan level 05:27:51 somehow our vault mavens haven't made one, I'm considering making a bad one myself to shame them into improving my design :p 05:28:17 kilobyte: nobody likes the good guys! 05:32:31 what'd a holy pan level be like? 05:35:29 like normal unique Pan lord vaults, I think 05:35:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 05:35:54 except for the set of demons being all holy 06:01:53 i think there were some unresolved issues 06:02:02 as in, no rune ==> nobody will do it 06:02:32 about dwarf: they dont regenerate, right? that is pretty horrible outside of a portal vault 06:04:39 if its sufficiently randomized having several portals to dwarf in elf could be nice 06:05:06 breaches the dwarfs are trying to seal for example 06:05:52 having on average 2 medium size strongly randomized portals in a 3-level elf could be nice 06:06:33 also, if elf is shortened again, please cut off the first two levels this time 06:06:45 what's wrong with regeneration or not in portal vaults vs regular levels? 06:07:08 no regeneration in a regular level means you can retreat, go up the stairs, and come back when you have more resources 06:07:11 unless you're trapped in a very small arena like a Ziggurat, you can kite 06:07:15 and everything you half-killed is still half dead 06:07:25 stuff like torment vs the royal jelly is a good example 06:08:09 it's pretty rare to leave a set of monsters half-dead, at least for monsters that don't have a big amount of hp themselves 06:08:47 its rare because monsters regenerate, and you lose all your progress if you dont finish them off 06:08:57 for the Pan level... there's a lot of rewards other than a rune 06:09:05 yeah, there was some talk about it 06:09:12 great loot on monsters, no floor loot, etc 06:09:24 but i dont think that was wikified or turned into an implementable 06:09:37 so the so called vault mavens might not be aware of it 06:09:57 i need to look up what a maven is 06:10:31 Overview of noun maven 06:10:31 The noun maven has 1 sense (no senses from tagged texts) 06:10:31 1. ace, adept, champion, sensation, maven, mavin, virtuoso, genius, hotshot, star, superstar, whiz, whizz, wizard, wiz -- (someone who is dazzlingly skilled in any field) 06:11:09 according to wikipedia, someone who is very knowledgeable in a field, and tries to pass on that knowledge to others, from yiddish 06:12:16 the thing is, most loot is irrelevant by the time you are doing pan 06:12:52 i could see myself doing a holy level because it is a fun challenge, but if i just wanted to do a 15 rune win i would almost certainly skip it 06:12:55 holies are brutal 06:13:36 (so are fiends and greater mummies, but those guard a rune) 06:14:23 it certainly fits well into pan, much of the same stuff that doesnt work against demons doesnt work against holies 06:14:40 another thing that was discussed is what happens if a good god follower goes in there 06:14:42 a PDA, especially one that starts enchanted, is always nice 06:14:46 regarding full/partial pacification 06:15:14 so is other dragon armour... or, high-end weapons of holy wrath 06:15:41 mhh, hell is often done after pan, so it wouldnt be a total waste 06:15:48 holy wrath > speed on most weapon types 06:15:52 but depending on the monster set maybe still more trouble than its worth 06:15:55 (ie, all but those with maxdelay 6) 06:16:21 it would certainly be a fun challenge if done well 06:16:25 can always give some extra loot 06:16:30 so i think the reward problem is secondary 06:16:46 CURE MUTATION! 06:16:56 I should have thought about this sooner 06:17:15 Zin loves that thematically 06:17:16 i mean, 15 runes is done either for highscore or for general fun-having, and mostly fun-havers doing the holy level would probably be fine 06:17:42 highscore games try to skip as much of the cool content as possible anyway 06:17:58 does anyone care about score? 06:18:12 not in earnest, but there are some people who try to beat highscores 06:19:14 once you have seen everything in the game several times playing for a low turncount is one of the few things you can do to really change up the game 06:19:32 im not at that stage, but there are quite a few people in ##crawl who try to beat highscores 06:20:01 I see six types of mainstream achievements: 1. non-hasty 3-runer (to win or to streak), 2. 3-rune speedrun, 3. 15-runer, 4. 15-rune speedrun, 5. "win a Zig" then win, 6. get as many Zigs as possible then splat on your 173th one 06:20:54 score seems to matter mostly if you don't win 06:21:10 well, 15-rune speedrun (turn speed) is basically a score game 06:21:53 I think score is kind of misleading for new players. 06:22:24 Several of my friends who tried the game looked at the score and asked about it, and there really isn't a lot to say about it. 06:22:39 look at score in Nethack 06:23:13 it says a lot when people regard a lower scored win as better 06:23:23 Haven't played NH :( 06:23:28 if you win score (in crawl) is determined by runes and turncount, everything else is very minor 06:23:33 that is actually a pretty good measure imo 06:25:00 of course a 3-rune game with a weird combo or conduct can be a bigger achievement than a decently fast 15 rune game, but score cant care about that 06:25:37 kilobyte: score in NetHack is broken, as you can increase it by grinding 06:25:45 grinding doesn't accomplish much in NetHack, but it does accomplish very high scores 06:25:59 there's also at least one bug that lets you set your score to arbitrary values 06:26:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:30 in AceHack, I tried to use a similar scoring algorithm but fix the bugs and the grinding dependence; but it works quite differently from Crawl, e.g. there are a few items whose main purpose is to increase score 06:26:46 going for speed is already measurable from the dumplogs, so it makes sense for score to measure something else 06:28:10 anyway, don't dismiss other games based on bugs :) 06:28:37 ais523: did you set a highlight on nethack? 06:28:43 alefury: no 06:28:54 I idle in #nethack too, it'd be incredibly spammy 06:29:02 it's just that I often look at this channel but have nothing to say 06:29:13 /hilight -channel ##crawl-dev nethack 06:29:17 or some such :) 06:29:34 I'm all for criticism of NetHack based on legitimate reasons, anyway; I just don't want to see Crawl's design decisions based on coincidental features of other games 06:30:08 the only lesson we can learn from NetHack's scoring system is that it's probably unwise to give unlimited score for repeatedly killing and reanimating the same monster :) 06:30:40 -!- Wop has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:31:12 :) 06:31:18 (I think that's the only bit of NetHack's scoring system that UnNetHack changed, which means that it's still mostly dependent on monster kills, but no longer abusable) 06:31:27 (given that the gold duplication glitch was fixed there) 06:34:41 anyway, a wikified or implementified version of the holy pan level proposal would be nice 06:35:26 there was quite a bit of non-trivial discussion about it 06:36:12 wiki sucks for this matter, .des is the way to go 06:36:42 I mean, wiki is good for exploratory discussion, but at this stage .des would actually do something 06:37:17 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:46 true. i think if it is made clear what design rules need to be followed and what the threat level should be its not necessary, but .des would get that across too 06:38:58 same for dwarf btw. if it's supposed to go into .10 in some form people need to be told 06:39:04 oh, seraphs got broken by cherub changes 06:39:33 I'm tempted to just make them regular monsters and add a comment they're not meant for regular use 06:42:50 -!- Wop has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:16 |amethyst: You've been cleaning out so many bugs, I can't fins any to fix! :D 06:44:26 does crawl use standard plurals for angels or anglicized ones 06:51:50 Hebrew ones 06:53:26 huh? 06:53:40 okay 06:53:55 oh, stuff like ophan --> ophanim 06:53:58 yeah 06:54:48 ophan tile: not enough eyes 06:55:44 I assumed those grey specks along the rim were eyes 06:55:47 also, not enough weels 06:55:53 *wheels 06:56:05 the tile isn't terribly great 06:56:15 but at that resolution I'm not sure how much better could be done 06:56:35 yeah 06:56:45 the cherub tile looks like an ettin dressing up as a seagull for a halloween party 06:59:13 the middle pair of wings looks fugly 06:59:46 I didn't know those were wings 06:59:59 looks like it's covering its crotch with them 07:00:02 it's so ashamed!! 07:00:11 "The Bible later makes mention of a third type of angel found in the Merkaba called "Seraphim" (lit. "burning") angels. These angels appear like flashes of fire continuously ascending and descending" interesting 07:01:14 crawl goes by the seraph description where they have 6 wings covered in eyes 07:01:25 <3 07:02:00 (also the rest of them is full of eyes) 07:02:44 that stuff is seriously dragon ball z level writing 07:03:01 how do we make it clear that these angels are more awesome than other angels? add more wings! also: more eyes! 07:03:25 it seems there are a few different descriptions of seraphim 07:03:41 and they are burning snakes! 07:03:55 oh, crawl is using the Revelation 4:8 version 07:04:06 pfft, revelation is hardly judaic (hardly even christian really) 07:04:14 but fun :) 07:04:23 fair enough 07:04:41 although "covered in eyes" is already kind of handled by cherubim 07:04:49 and ophanim... 07:04:51 seraphim really ought to get cleansing flame and possibly other fire-related things 07:04:53 er, I meant ophanim 07:05:13 cherubim have only 8 eyes (2 per head)? what a waste. 07:05:27 currently ophanim have flame 07:05:41 seraphim are pretty firey/burny in the bible 07:05:49 and seraph is vault only cherub with extra power 07:05:50 moreso than any of the other ones afaict 07:05:56 oh 07:06:56 seraphim ought to be real creatures! 07:06:56 translations are pretty inconsistent 07:06:56 in some, seraphs are angels, in some burning serpents 07:07:05 I don't think that's a translation problem 07:07:13 I think that's a problem of inconsistency between descriptions 07:07:28 you mean, the bible being inconsistent? Really? :p 07:07:35 haha 07:07:41 different translations of the same verse differ, though 07:07:42 once you start talking about super-sayans (sp?) you cant keep it consistent 07:07:45 also a problem in dbz 07:07:51 well in the OT the only clear reference to them being angels has them as six-winged guys, and one of them takes a hot coal out of his mouth 07:08:04 like, KJV always goes with the burning serpent version even when it doesn't make sense 07:08:47 not as far as I can tell 07:09:02 isaiah 6 in the KJV doesn't 07:10:09 same with revelation 4:8 but that doesn't mention them by name anyway 07:10:56 hrm, the revelation 4:6-8 stuff sounds like kind of a mish-mash of other angels 07:11:31 six wings like a seraph, bunches of eyes like an ophan, and eagle/ox/man/lion heads kind of like cherubim 07:12:51 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:36 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 08:05:55 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:08 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:16 Morning 08:08:18 Cryp71c: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:08:20 !messages 08:08:21 (1/2) elliptic said (4h 34m 58s ago): Currently monsters with special attack flavors (e.g. AF_COLD) get to use those flavors even if they do 0 damage... this is a large nerf to heavy armour chars 08:08:21 !messages 08:08:22 (1/1) elliptic said (4h 33m 32s ago): Note that this is a different from how many player effects are supposed to work... elec brand, pain brand, enhancer staves, and so on are all supposed to work even if you do 0 damage with the physical part of the attack 08:10:25 elliptic, k, I'll fix that real quick..that'll definitely be something we'll fix when we address symmetry. 08:12:29 i notice he left out the word 'proc' 08:14:24 cherub -> ASSERT(attk_type < static_cast(sizeof(attack_types) / sizeof(const char *))) in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 3855 failed. 08:26:29 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:52 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:35 -!- Karagy has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:22 @??sixfirhy 08:40:24 sixfirhy (124) | Speed: 40 (move: 60%) | HD: 7 | Health: 24-52 | AC/EV: 2/20 | Damage: 1511(elec:7-9) | Flags: 05demonic | Res: 06magic(56), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 504. 08:46:10 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:46:25 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:05 03Cryp71c * r1f697709a3c2 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Fix Monster Attack Flavour for no-damage attacks 09:05:49 Do you still have to have a sharp weapon to butcher? 09:07:43 no, you have a pocket knife 09:08:06 so uncursed weapon or sharp cursed weapon works 09:08:16 That sucks for ash worshippers :( 09:08:31 well, non-sharp weapon ash worshippers 09:08:48 there is animate skeleton for that 09:08:49 there is an overflow altar that gives you animate skeleton 09:08:59 but you often dont have that, yes 09:09:44 i think thats okay though, you dont always find lots of fruit either (sucks for fedhas worshipers) 09:13:09 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:21 ***** *****! 09:14:37 everything okay? 09:17:18 don't feel comfy cursing about crawl out loud in here ;) 09:17:52 ****. 09:24:27 dooh.. now i'm not motivated to play anymore.. 09:24:52 Napkin: What did the evil game do to you? 09:25:55 2 max damage hits of ogre in a row.. in d9 or something 09:27:35 in the game before that "cover ground slowly" from wizard in d13 09:27:57 one stupid extreme after another 09:33:21 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 09:39:38 ??hooves 09:39:39 hooves[1/2]: Horse feet. Having them allows you to kick in melee, at the cost of footwear. Slot loss happens at hooves 3. 09:39:43 ??hooves[2] 09:39:44 unarmed effects[1/1]: Unarmed attacks have additional effects, if conditions are met: Headbutt - Ministun ; Claw - Bleed effect ; Hooves - Ignore AC on kicks ; More to come in the future 09:40:04 Do hooves give you implicit speed increases at all? 09:41:55 no 09:42:26 Napkin: truth to be told, a wizard would suffer from that mutation least 09:42:33 jeanjacques, you sure? I'm pretty sure I'm moving faster than average speed monsters. 09:42:49 i was an orc death knigh, dpeg 09:42:53 @ says "movement speed is average" but I'm outrunning orcs. 09:42:54 @??orc 09:42:55 orc (04o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 1 | Health: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Damage: 5 | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 3. 09:43:00 as in your turncount shows it? 09:43:10 Hrm...no, turncounts are inc by 1 09:43:23 if the orcs are in a group 09:43:31 they tend to hinder each others movement 09:43:31 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:39 its open space, but maybe. 09:43:42 and slow down from regular speed 09:43:57 there is even a mantis issue for that 09:44:43 for groups of enemies in general that is 09:44:53 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:41 This colorful tree temple is full of awesome and win. 09:46:42 Napkin: the mutation changes everything, no question. But as a DK, there should be zoooombies! 09:47:39 q)uit was faster 09:48:03 pity though - i liked that char 09:53:44 Whip of Distant Worlds has ERROR in description (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4972) by XuaXua 10:26:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:13 Cryp71c: Annihilated by a rat (14779344 damage) 10:38:00 Annihilated by a giant newt (2802640 damage) 10:38:05 etc 10:38:19 current master has a couple issues ;) 10:38:35 is that an error in the reported damage? or are they actually doing that much damage? 10:38:54 they are actually doing that much damage; those are death messages 10:39:09 A the Chopper (level 1, -2802623/19 HPs) 10:40:14 it seems to be caused by the most recent commit 10:41:21 looks like Crawl's reinvented Heaven or Hell by accident :) 10:41:30 (actually, Hell or Hell if it isn't symmetrical on the monsters) 10:41:44 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:33 elliptic, does it happen all the time, or just under particular circumstances? 10:44:59 it seems to happen pretty much all the time a monster (or at least a rat) hits and does damage 10:45:09 get more EV :) 10:45:21 i.e. it happens a lot less if you have have AC, because the rat will do no damage a lot 10:45:40 <|amethyst> special_damage not being initialised in all code paths? 10:45:45 probably 10:45:54 it also doesn't happen with stuff like ice beasts 10:46:06 |amethyst: yeah, I assume something like that 10:46:22 we should make a Crawl version of Heaven or Hell (for people who don't know, it's a NetHack mod where everything has 1 max hp) 10:46:25 (including the player) 10:47:17 elliptic, anything that has a flavour'd attack (which gets an explicit special_damage value) probably doesn't suffer from it. 10:47:22 yeah 10:47:25 But non-flavoured attacks result in uninitialized values. 10:47:33 1 sec, easy fix. 10:52:42 i got a question. in your rc options file you got autopickup = $?!+"/%, but a mummy does not pick up those potionsand food for example 10:52:57 how could i enable this? 10:53:44 elliptic, fix pushing 10:54:10 Ragdoll: something about useless items 10:54:38 ah, i see 10:55:00 03Cryp71c * raabb146afe0a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (attack.cc melee_attack.cc): Fix uninitialized special_damage 10:55:28 I don't actually know how to do it, but I think it should be possible 10:55:57 i added a # on drop_filter = useless_item, but i guess that wouldve been too easy 10:56:23 (it is) 10:58:52 cdo update required, Cryp71c? 11:00:14 Napkin, if CDO 1f697709, yes. 11:00:17 if CDO has* 11:00:49 it has 54508d0 from this morning 11:02:23 ah, then it should be fine. 11:02:32 elliptic, you noticed the crazy damage on a local build? 11:02:38 yeah 11:02:51 Napkin, I guess you could trigger an update, it would fix attack flavours. 11:02:53 you would have heard about it much sooner if it was on CDO :P 11:02:58 yeah :P 11:03:04 "zomg I can't get off D;1" 11:03:12 heavy armour is sort of awful currently because of bugs, yeah 11:03:32 both that thing and the AEVP formula being messed up 11:03:40 I keep dreaming of the day when flavours and brands are unified...if ever.... 11:04:43 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2382-gaabb146 (32) 11:05:06 are people here already aware of the fact that with a reaching weapon your aux attacks are also reaching? 11:05:56 ragdoll: hm, you mean the message is wrong? 11:06:07 against adjacent monsters? 11:06:18 no, as in with my vampire with spears i can reaching-bite them 11:06:33 hm, weird, I thought there was a check for that 11:09:16 <|amethyst> elliptic: hmm... I think it's 1294cf7,50428df, and 018012f 11:09:29 <|amethyst> if (!adjacent(attacker->pos(), defender->pos()) && attk.type != AT_HIT 11:09:32 <|amethyst> && attk.flavour != AF_REACH || attk.type == AT_SHOOT) 11:09:49 |amethyst: that's just monster auxes 11:09:59 <|amethyst> hm 11:10:05 Ragdoll: I can't reproduce this 11:10:16 let me know if you see it again 11:11:05 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:23 |amethyst: player auxes should all pass through player_aux_unarmed, which is only called inside an if (attacker->atype() == ACT_PLAYER && adjacent(defender->pos(), attacker->pos())) on lines 719-720 of melee_attack.cc 11:12:41 <|amethyst> yeah, you're right 11:13:13 elliptic, there are some special calls to _vampire_draws_blood or something like that. 11:13:23 *could* be to blame, let me look around. 11:14:21 That's what's happening, it looks like. 11:14:31 ah, looks like thirsty stabbing vampires 11:15:48 I guess the two places where _vampire_draws_blood is called for stabs need a check for adjacency 11:16:24 elliptic, I was just going to add a check for adjacency directly into vampire_draws_blood 11:16:31 you think its more appropriate on the calling blocks instead? 11:16:56 it is called once with vampiric weapons 11:17:03 which is fine with reaching 11:17:23 <|amethyst> Wp: a) +8 very long straw {vamp} 11:17:56 Cryp71c: I guess you could check for adjacency if needs_bite_msg is true 11:19:11 Cryp71c: oh, actually things will still be bugged with vampires stabbing with vampiric reaching if you do that, I think 11:19:30 Cryp71c: I'd just add the check to the two places where it is called for stabs, I think 11:20:11 well, maybe it would work 11:20:31 from what i recall the vampire code is a massive pain when you get into cases like vampires wielding vamp weapons 11:21:27 i fixed something a while ago with them and i recall it being really strange, at least 11:21:38 yeah 11:21:50 hang on, ill try to reproduce it 11:22:14 Ragdoll: no need, we figured it out probably 11:22:18 oh. :p 11:22:32 well it happens quite a bit so ill run into it sooner or later again 11:23:03 elliptic, it looks like adding a fail check to the _vampire_draws_... is sufficient. 11:23:08 my problem was something to do with the code paths for vamp weapons, vampire aux attacks and the vampire's tooth all being seperate and having lots of lovely duplication, iirc 11:23:40 yeah, the vampire draw blood code is everywhere -_- 11:23:45 i have a feeling vampire's tooth still has inconsistencies when you're a vampire, even 11:24:07 Cryp71c: my point was that processing _vampire_draws_blood while non-adjacent is fine sometimes 11:24:30 see line 1965 11:24:36 that call shouldn't require adjacency 11:24:48 <|amethyst> elliptic: but that one passes a false need_bitemsg 11:24:56 <|amethyst> err, needs_bite_msg 11:25:07 right, as I said, earlier, you'd only check for adjacency if needs_bite_msg is true 11:25:39 that would work, but seems more confusing to me than just checking in the calling blocks 11:25:50 *shrug* 11:26:21 <|amethyst> hm, also, is it intentional that the aux bite doesn't give a message 11:26:44 bite attack does give a message 11:26:54 <|amethyst> or, rather, that it gives "You draw" rather than "You bite" 11:27:01 <|amethyst> I guess it already gave a message about biting 11:27:05 You puncture the agate snail but do no damage. 11:27:05 You bite the agate snail! 11:27:05 You kill the agate snail! 11:27:10 <|amethyst> yeah 11:27:13 that was without the "draw" message 11:27:19 is it weird with it? 11:27:31 <|amethyst> No, actually I guess it's fine 11:27:47 <|amethyst> but that's one case where needs_bite_msg doesn't match adjacency requirements 11:28:00 <|amethyst> (otoh, since it's an aux, adjacency has already been checked as you pointed out) 11:29:10 elliptic, I think I'm misunderstanding you, were you saying that exiting _vampire_draws_blood based on needs_bite_message would be a sufficient fix for this, or ? 11:29:14 gnoll does excessive damage (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4973) by argonaut 11:30:00 Cryp71c: I believe that returning false in _vampire_draws_blood if not adjacent and needs_bite_message = true would work, yes 11:30:06 I bet I know what 4973 is :P 11:30:14 <|amethyst> it looks like it would probably be sufficient, *but* fragile 11:30:37 yeah 11:30:47 You reach to attack! 11:30:47 The helpless snake fails to defend itself. 11:30:47 You bite the snake, and draw its blood! 11:30:47 You are feeling thirsty. 11:30:47 You puncture the snake. You bite the snake, and draw its blood! 11:30:48 You feel slightly less thirsty. 11:31:38 Cryp71c: putting adjacency checks before the calls on lines on 571 and 1957 would work too 11:32:04 <|amethyst> Ragdoll: was that from one attack? 11:32:38 Ragdoll: yeah, so it happens from reaching-stabs, which is what we thought, thanks! 11:32:48 (hopefully that was two attacks) 11:32:55 yes. the order in which the messages go seems a bit odd, although it works i suppose. i got another one later, but also on a sleeping enemy yes 11:33:15 one attack. 11:33:48 <|amethyst> there's one check in player_monattk_hit_effects and another in handle_phase_damaged 11:34:07 yeah, maybe those two checks both happen? I was assuming they didn't for some reason 11:34:26 but that might be a separate bug 11:42:49 I think possibly the calls to player_vampire_draws_blood on 1957/1965 should be removed and the special-casing for vampires using a vampiric weapon should be reintroduced wherever vampiric weapons are usually handled 11:44:11 I don't have time to look at it more right now though 11:45:23 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:01 -!- blabber has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:27 an observation from ##crawl: crawl is inconsistent about whether it is "the Shining One" or "The Shining One" 11:59:27 tSO or TSO 11:59:31 That is the question. 11:59:40 tHE sHINING 1NE 12:00:28 the shiny one 12:00:51 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:13 The One That Is Shiny 12:01:21 or totis, for short 12:01:25 Otis, to its friends 12:02:02 the bling-bling one 12:03:55 elliptic, the whole vampire stuff is really wierd. 12:04:03 (the stab-blood draw healing stuff, I mean) 12:04:36 Essentially, if you wait until you're hungry, THEN stab..you could gain hp twice (once from a vampiric weapon stab, once from _vampire_draws_blood) 12:04:46 But the second would cap at your XL 12:05:02 well, they are separate sources of vampiricism 12:05:14 one is the weapon, the other is your bite 12:05:15 Yeah, its not that it shouldn't happen, its just very...wierd. 12:05:27 (the way its handled, I mean) 12:06:01 It seems like it would be more useful (for vampires) that the blood draw wouldn't depend on/have special effects for stabbing (but would rather just occur during normal combat) 12:06:13 it does occur during normal combat 12:06:17 that's the aux 12:06:29 right 12:06:43 it is just that the blood draw is guaranteed or more likely with stabs or something like that 12:07:42 ..hrm, yeah.. 12:08:01 anyways, I'll do what you mentioned about 40 minutes ago (check adjacency and the needs bite msg) 12:10:41 -!- Adam__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:08 -!- Aegrisomnia has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:19:28 Poison Resistance mutation does not protect from poison (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4974) by Warh 12:34:27 maybe that change should also feature fairly prominently in the changelog 12:35:33 also monster rP being unchanged should definitely be mentioned somewhere 12:35:37 even if its not a change 12:35:52 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 12:42:13 -!- Chousuke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:42:54 Let's make poison even more deadly! 12:43:33 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:56:55