00:00:19 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:44 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2298-gb151db1 (32) 00:06:04 03dolorous * r6b1ec80b309c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Add utility function is_giant_club_type(); use it for giant club special cases. 00:18:36 Incorrectly uncapitalized messages when objects fall through shafts (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4939) by elliptic 00:20:43 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2299-g6b1ec80 00:41:18 moin 00:41:55 doooh.. stupid sleeping! did i really miss the greensnark again?! 00:47:51 looks like (: 00:55:00 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:33 I posted an update / questions on constriction to c-r-d but it gave a "moderated list" response 01:02:57 that's because it's a moderated list! 01:02:58 :D 01:03:14 main question is, does anyone want to look at the work in progress to see if I'm going at all in the right direction? 01:10:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:10 03evilmike * r48d548079f32 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/abyss.des: Remove a problematic abyss vault. 01:39:00 -1 headed hydra... (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4940) by Twilight 01:40:00 that's a great bug 01:40:06 03elliptic * rba6737dae85b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (l_crawl.cc l_you.cc): Add two clua functions. 01:40:10 03elliptic * r5cee717882cf 10/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc: Fix Mantis 4779. 01:43:48 <3 01:43:53 I want an infinity-headed hydra. 01:44:14 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:53 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 01:50:23 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:56:31 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:56 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:52 I'm compiling a fix for the hydra bug 02:11:16 Surr (L19 SpHe) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 955: Invalid attack flavour for noise_factor (Elf:3) 02:14:53 Surr (L19 SpHe) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 955: Invalid attack flavour for noise_factor (Elf:3) 02:16:47 Surr (L19 SpHe) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 955: Invalid attack flavour for noise_factor (Elf:3) 02:18:08 03elliptic * rb3af42db767b 10/crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc: Kill petrified 0-headed hydras. 02:23:35 !lm * crash -log 02:23:35 1894. Surr, XL19 SpHe, T:55379 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Surr/crash-Surr-20111125-081645.txt 02:24:23 Surr (L19 SpHe) ERROR in 'melee_attack.cc' at line 955: Invalid attack flavour for noise_factor (Elf:3) 02:30:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:57 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:25 for that noise factor thing, I think the "die" needs to be replaced with a noise_factor=100 02:48:10 -!- Wensley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:59 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:29 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:59 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:41 on second thought, not that simple. it falls through to another assert later 03:03:43 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:08 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:17:18 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:29 -!- Karagy has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:53 hi, all 03:32:05 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:square_los 03:35:41 though most of that discussion is over a year old. i have no idea how crawls actual los code works? 03:46:28 seems to euclidean, of course. 03:52:17 For hex grid variand, inmho, the fourth problem - displaying multiline descriptions. It can looks not very ugly only with interlaced strings. 03:53:00 not sure what descriptions have to do with LOS 03:53:00 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:53:18 there are no strings anywhere in the play area 03:58:35 but impossible to draw hex (i.e. half-shifted strings) on one part of console and non-shifted strings on another console part. I.e. choice for hex greed for LOS automagically cause problem for other displayed data (descs, messages, e.t.c.) 04:02:35 these areas don't have any overlap, so I don't see what the problem would be 04:04:10 you can take a look for example on Zugz' version which used spaces, or my mockup of using CJK "fullwidth" (double width) 04:04:14 http://angband.pl/tmp/hexcjk.png 04:08:16 Hmm. I miss realisation variant via horisontal interlasing for standart font. Ok. Looks very fine. Good aspect ratio. 04:19:26 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:04 !tell evilmike evilmike_butchery = <3 04:29:04 kilobyte: OK, I'll let evilmike know. 04:33:05 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:03 evilmike_entry_teleporters seemingly traps people (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4941) by KiloByte 04:51:11 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:00 The pool & plants & trees serial vaults are really nice. 05:00:06 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-2279-g75c1e25 05:08:06 -!- cosh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:30 -!- cosh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:43 Ghoul @ text about rotting is misleading (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4942) by Kyrris 06:08:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:49 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:01 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:18 -!- cosh has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 06:32:59 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:34:16 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:48 Monsters get renamed to "helpless X" when confused (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4943) by st 06:55:05 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:29 Message colouring is broken in some places (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4944) by st 08:05:56 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:12:24 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:54 -!- Wop has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:48 message_colour options no longer seem to work (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4945) by st 08:53:24 Kal (L21 NaIE) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 109: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (0,0) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 09:05:58 any people with wordpress account to do a sanity check? http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/?p=2048&preview=true 09:16:24 what is it about? 09:16:31 (no wordpress account) 09:19:51 (no sanity) 09:20:22 seems to be 404-compliant 09:20:39 hm, i thought that was just due to me not having a wordpress account 09:21:03 also, due is a pretty crappy nick regarding accidental highlights 09:22:21 hmhmh, hmh. 09:24:43 by beats that by a huge factor :p 09:25:04 Beastly Appendage (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4946) by tehsnarf 09:25:21 alefury: I uplifted dpeg's comment from MD removal blog post comments 09:25:36 I'm also preparing the UCC playtesting post 09:27:51 do you have cryptics thingy? 09:27:52 i don't think it's really worth making a whole new blog post for MD stuff 09:28:03 -!- Wop has joined ##crawl-dev 09:28:14 yeah, it kind of died down, just let old wounds heal 09:28:23 it'll just spark off more silliness, the comment was good but doesn't really need to be a new post imo 09:31:01 03kilobyte * r87c7dc77d8a1 10/crawl-ref/source/status.cc: Show ghoul rot speed on '@'. 09:31:11 03kilobyte * r55d9acdcb7b8 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Revert _nocap from items falling down shafts. 09:31:12 03kilobyte * r06fddc4da4de 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/backgrounds.txt: Change Transmuter short description -- no messing with potions anymore. 09:31:12 03kilobyte * r6aee135ec504 10/crawl-ref/source/enum.h: Fix an off-by-one error that dissallowed loading saves with Beastly Appendage. 09:31:19 alefury: Yeah 09:32:42 MarvinPA: I don't really care for more angry comments myself either, but it's interesting game design stuff from Crawl development point of view, that I hope we had more posts on the blog about. 09:34:15 03dolorous * r0c41ac5da872 10/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc: Fix pluralization for multiple-quantity objects' falling through shafts. 09:43:08 But yeah, I can see timing/placement being awkward. 09:43:28 du's nick only highlights when it is at the beginning of a line (or so i am told) 09:44:09 thats neat 09:44:12 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:29 my alternative solution is to refer to him as du when he is not present 09:57:46 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:04 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:53 unbelievable 10:13:14 30AC and i feel like a XL1-char against those yaks... 10:13:38 and my attack speed is above average 10:13:43 that's the deal here? 10:17:09 ??why 10:17:09 why[1/4]: Because Crawl hates you, that's why. 10:17:27 xl1-char against yaks? You mean, they kill you in one hit? 10:19:52 napkin: combat maths could still be messed up because of UCC in some way or another, though it hasn't seemed far off at least in my current game 10:28:23 -!- Twilight13 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:47 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:43:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:40 -!- Zaba has quit [Quit: brb] 11:06:48 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:10 Morning 11:07:10 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:07:14 !messages 11:07:14 (1/1) elliptic said (1d 9h 59m 43s ago): Currently you get no message when you try to hit an invisible monster and miss. 11:09:23 !tell Cryp71c fix monster vs plant combat that occurs out of line of sight (messages are fouled up) 11:09:34 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 11:09:39 !tell Cryp71c also fix combat messages vs invisible monsters when you're missing them. 11:09:39 Cryp71c: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:09:39 Cryp71c: OK, I'll let Cryp71c know. 11:10:50 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/playtesting-combat-code-refactoring 11:11:12 Hello Cryp71c, see if that post is all right? 11:12:56 Looks good, thanks kesk 11:12:56 Cryp71c: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:16:41 evening 11:21:09 Cryp71c: I just uploaded a patch for this bug https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4932 11:26:10 ChickenMan (L10 HEWz) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1405 failed. (Orc:1) 11:27:02 blueDave, that will remove the error and whatnot, but will not fix what could be the underlying issue. 11:27:31 ranged combat shouldn't use melee_combat, its all handled elsewhere, so if a ranged attack somehow gets in there, it should error out. 11:30:44 Some collateral kills are not attributed properly (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4947) by dolorous 11:33:30 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:32 so I'm hearing it mentioned in a few places that 0.10 is going to be finalized soon? that would certainly be enough pressure to get me to stop playing skyrim for a few weeks :P 11:39:32 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:24 the statues are the only things that currently have WEAPON_ONLY so maybe they're not special cased properly upstream 11:41:41 blueDave: thanks for the constriction work! 11:42:26 I just hope it works, seeing the ucc difficulties makes me nervous 11:43:47 I'm not a good enough player to playtest up to where kraken and tentacled monstrosities are relevant ;) 11:44:30 tweaking for balance is a separate matter really, don't worry about that 11:45:08 putting trunk builds on the servers gives a huge amount of free playtesting :) 11:47:49 monstrosities are pretty boring right now anyways, if they become too powerful it's a better starting point 11:49:36 -!- Pingas has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:49:42 give monstrosities the rolling-boulder momentum 11:50:06 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:59 Eronarn, that reminds me, would like for monstrousness to be more interesting...like changing the player size to large or something. 11:59:16 Something that actually changes how you play rather than "oh, yay, lots of body slot muts" 11:59:25 -!- Karagy has left ##crawl-dev 11:59:27 xomscumming (L1 MuCK) ERROR: range check error (-1 / 80) (D (Sprint)) 11:59:38 but that's not very important...I'll do it sometime later down the road. 11:59:56 it changes how you play by essentially forcing an unarmed combat build now 12:00:09 "oh, yay, now I can't dodge for shit" if it's make you large 12:00:28 yeah, being large doesn't really do much other than block you from doing things 12:00:54 jeanjacques: not really... claws are the only aux mut that actually benefits from UC skill now 12:00:59 though i guess with the aux attack changes and if claws are not one of the muts that has changed 12:01:10 and you might not get the claws early 12:01:24 yeah, i gotta fix that too...mutation scheduling is quite silly atm. 12:01:30 Or at least, has a chance to be. 12:01:51 tentacles constricting would be good, but focusing on just making it work at all to begin with :P 12:01:59 I think marvinpa has already done a fair amount of tweaking to mutation scheduling so you might want to talk with him 12:02:07 Perhaps not a size change. Idk... 12:02:28 a size change is thematically cool but doesn't make any sense given how size actually works in crawl 12:02:41 elliptic, k, thanks...all I know is that the scheduling is still quite odd...players (not regularly, but not rarely either) getting 2nd levels of tier2 muts before they get out of single-digit levels. 12:02:58 Cryp71c: I think losing three armour slots and getting lots of extra melee attacks (or other things) is plenty of change 12:03:02 Eronarn, yeah, my concepts tend to run the "what's cool thematically" rather than what's useful in crawl. 12:03:26 they already feel a lot different from other DS 12:03:43 hrm, k. I can understand that. 12:03:45 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:01 what about giving them some +stat mutations? 12:04:06 since now those affect auxes a bunch 12:04:25 possibly monstrous things: stealth penalty, something to do with berserk, meat eating.. 12:04:27 giving them a little extra str/dex could be reasonable, yeah 12:04:58 mikee_, I could dig a change to their carnivorousness, or combat bonuses for not fighting in corridors or something. 12:04:59 do different auxes get str/dex weighted differently? you could give them, say, 5 points in proportion to what their auxes favor 12:05:04 (eg, more than 2 monsters adjacent) 12:05:06 since DS are str/dex balanced by default, yeah? 12:05:34 Eronarn, yeah, they're fairly evenly stat balanced in general, but all auxes utilize the same str/dex weighting system, I think. 12:05:34 "combat bonuses for not fighting in corridors" sounds like a bad idea to me... they shouldn't be that different from other DS 12:05:48 we don't want to encourage people to scum for them or to quit them 12:05:50 elliptic: it could be a good idea for an aux mut, which they might be more likely to have 12:06:02 but yeah, not something monstrous specific 12:06:06 right, it just shouldn't be something unique to monstrous 12:06:13 I don't think monstrous should give anything unique 12:06:15 elliptic, yeah, that would be quite a significant change...that concept might work better across the board for fighter-types 12:06:53 BTW, where have weapon effects gone? There were several proposals which were interesting, diversified weapon types, and gave cause for non-corridor fighting... 12:06:58 another thing: does monstrous give 'free' scales? that would be a thing to consider, since they lose so much AC 12:06:59 Was all that put on delay until post-rewrite ? 12:07:17 Eronarn, they get more mutations than non-monstrous DS, but all Ds should have 1 complete set of scales 12:07:25 So, no..they don't get extra scales. 12:07:30 Cryp71c: people never agreed on any of them other than reaching for polearms (implemented) and constriction (will be implemented) 12:07:37 (constriction is a weapon effect in spirit) 12:07:51 elliptic, whip-constriction, or tentacle-constriction? 12:08:05 well, snakes and such will get it too 12:08:08 right 12:08:09 not whips 12:08:11 k 12:08:51 I'm still convinced that intuitive, interesting weapon effects could be beneficial to crawl 12:08:58 certainly 12:09:05 everyone agrees about that pretty much :P 12:09:11 hehe 12:09:18 but actually coming up with weapon effects that would work well is another matter 12:09:26 So conceptually, we agree, but when it comes to realistic implementations..not so much 12:10:35 the issue is that weapon effects should ideally be completely passive and almost never harmful 12:10:51 using the precedent of short blades and stabbing i suppose 12:11:38 polearm reaching fails the "completely passive" criterion but autofight helps a bit with that at least 12:11:56 (and reaching already existed and wasn't going away) 12:12:34 one idea that I think has a fair amount of support and satisfies these criteria is having axe attacks sometimes hit multiple adjacent monsters 12:13:05 elliptic, yeah, I like that, and addresses corridor fighting. 12:13:16 however it doesn't have a concrete proposal yet afaik 12:13:34 what are these supposed to be based on? stats only? 12:13:36 dual-wielding is a whole other issues, but I think that has potential as a non-quickblade short blade possibility. 12:13:42 no dual wielding 12:14:01 alefury: ideally, yeah... currently reaching doesn't depend on anything, but that should change at some point 12:14:12 am i the only person who doesn't care about fighting in corridors 12:14:19 mikee_: no 12:14:20 Eronarn, out of curiosity, what's your issue against DW? 12:14:37 Cryp71c: i don't think it would work in crawl; it's tricky to get right in other games 12:14:38 it doesn't bother me either, but I also don't mind adding effects that only work in more open areas 12:14:47 yeah 12:14:51 people will still use corridors most of the time, no matter what we do 12:14:53 I don't mean to say that I dislike corridor fighting 12:15:02 because it makes sense that being surrounded by stuff is bad 12:15:08 once you add it it's almpost impossible to remove it but we haven't ever gone and added it 12:15:13 but I think there should be effects or benefits to encourage players (at least to sometimes) to fight out of corridors. 12:15:30 Eronarn, well....except elven blademasters 12:15:32 :P 12:15:40 autofight has apparently been the feature that has most accomplished that =P 12:16:31 there are also some ideas of making mace-type weapons ignore or partially ignore AC but I'm not really a fan, at least by itself 12:16:40 it makes sense, but doesn't seem very interesting 12:16:51 its equivalent to raising damage 12:16:56 no? 12:16:59 alefury: except against stuff like slimes 12:17:05 who don't have much/any AC 12:17:16 yes, monsters have very different amounts of AC 12:17:22 higher base damage weapons are better against high ac monsters 12:17:23 i did a brief mental list of stuff that could fit the criteria you mentioned earlier and that was one of them 12:17:35 elliptic: i think the problem with stuff like that is that mace skill includes all kinds of weapons 12:17:37 so raising damage while keeping damage per time the same will make ac matter less 12:17:42 like whips should actually be the opposite of that 12:17:46 of course to hit or speed would have to be adjusted too 12:17:47 eronarn: you'd want to split off whips, yeah 12:17:52 and give them a different effect 12:17:54 but that's fine 12:18:10 but theres no need for introducing a new mechanic to make weapons differ in usefulness against high and low ac targets 12:18:14 i think having to consider ac for weapons is a good thing in general 12:18:46 guys, i am getting very tired of pressing mbbccddeeffgghhiijj, could there atleast be a possibility that i can macro to m 12:18:50 i did a big list of possible weapon effects on a wiki page, even if you don't like the other stuff i wrote that might be useful 12:19:00 The problem I see is that some players avoid entire trees of weapons -unless they run acros an absurd randart- because they're inferior to other weapon types. 12:19:14 Ragdoll, can't you just edit your rc to start with manual mode? 12:19:23 then its still bcdefghij 12:19:38 i don't suppose there's an option to help with that too 12:19:40 Cryp71c: huh? 12:19:45 I have no idea what you are talking about 12:19:51 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:20:00 people use all weapon types currently 12:20:15 nope. it would help a lot if i could simply make a macro that allows m 12:20:24 yeah, the "only m&f is good" thing is just tavern bullshit 12:20:38 some people there just love their dwhips 12:20:39 i would like to just start the game in the m screen with everything turned off 12:20:46 tavern is dumb never listen to it ever 12:20:51 mikee_, that might be nice. 12:20:54 nah, tavern is okay 12:21:05 just some people are silly 12:21:07 to be fair it's just as bad as irc 12:21:18 only in different areas, i guess :P 12:21:33 irc is pretty bad 12:21:33 fewer bad jokes, more bad advice 12:21:37 evidence: this discussion!! 12:21:37 evilmike thinks polearms are the best class at the moment and I sort of agree... but they aren't enough better that people don't use the others 12:22:34 re: ds mut scheduling, i think the removal of breath weapons might have been partly to blame for some of the cases where you can be getting multiple levels of t2 muts really early? 12:22:36 just keep nerfing the best kind of weapon every version so that a) nobody knows what is best b) the game gets harder 12:22:49 since it means there's only the one t1 mut 12:23:05 Eronarn: well, polearms are best currently because they got crazy buffs in 0.10 so far :P 12:23:22 reaching attacks could be slower than normal? 12:23:27 MarvinPA: the tier system in general probably needs to be rethought 12:23:40 that would also help a bit with kiting issues 12:23:49 alefury: I like the idea better of reducing accuracy for reaching attacks 12:24:10 yeah, could maybe do with some tweaks. the only things i've changed have been removing/adding muts and changing mutation tiers, haven't ever changed how the scheduling itself works 12:24:32 what about guaranteeing at least one level of every facet before starting on level 2? 12:25:03 we don't really want too many guarantees, and I think early level 2 tier 2 muts are fine 12:25:06 well, restricting it that heavily would be pretty boring 12:25:15 Yeah early tier2 muts are fine 12:25:17 I'd put some sort of restriction on getting level 3 too early though 12:25:27 mhh, that can get pretty silly 12:25:31 the issue is when you start getting higher levels of tier2 muts (or even t3 muts) too early 12:25:33 i think it's fine for it to be pretty heavily random like it is currently, but yeah, that 12:25:33 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:35 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 12:25:35 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:40 I've gotten robost 2 on a monstrous DS by level 7 or 8 or so 12:25:47 uh... why is that a problem? 12:25:55 elliptic, s/robust/any other t3 mutation 12:25:58 yes? 12:26:09 passive freeze in single digit levels was silly 12:26:09 i once had demonic guardian by sewer 12:26:11 it was great 12:26:18 demonic guardian 3* 12:26:23 alefury: right, level 3 of some of the muts are pretty ridiculous early on 12:26:47 ??tier 12:26:47 I don't have a page labeled tier in my learndb. 12:26:48 just weighting things a bit more heavily away from giving you level 3 of a facet until later might do the trick 12:26:50 ??mutation tier 12:26:50 I don't have a page labeled mutation_tier in my learndb. 12:27:40 Cryp71c: its a Ds thing. 12:27:42 ??facet 12:27:42 facet[1/1]: A "family" of Demonspawn mutations that are related and are gained together over time. Added in version 0.7. Check {ds mutation rules} to see how they work. 12:27:43 The t3 facets are kind of boring too, come to think of it. 12:28:07 freeze and hellfire are t3 now i think 12:28:13 alefury, I'm intricately familiar with the DS and mutation stuff :) I was seeing if the learndb had any entries specifying any of the tiered muts 12:28:17 so I didn't have to open up the source 12:28:23 a bit less so now that passive freeze and hellfire are t3 ones, yeah 12:28:36 Out of the 5 or 6 t3 facets, those are the only interesting oens. 12:28:44 but robust/rN/torment res definitely aren't as exciting as spines and demonic guardian and so on 12:29:03 i dont see the problem 12:29:13 limiting the boring mutations to only one is fine, right? 12:29:18 Also, is hellfire useful now? it used to be weak vs most monsters. 12:29:29 alefury, its not problematic, maybe..but its not desirable either. 12:29:57 it's pretty good iirc 12:30:06 since it actually ignores monster ac and rf now 12:30:19 people use staff of dispater sometimes, so hellfire mut should be okay 12:30:19 and costs less hp than it used to and does a ton of damage and is smite-targeted 12:30:20 k good 12:30:34 yeqa used to be super terrible 12:30:44 checked AC, fire-res, cost a ton of hp, and was beam targetted. 12:30:44 yuck. 12:32:51 omg @ tome4 12:35:38 Auto explore! 12:36:02 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:39 apart from that, i shouldn't comment more.. 12:39:58 Napkin: is it horribly awful? 12:40:14 well, no, not exactly 12:40:37 but would i be programming it, i wouldn't call it beta 12:41:34 there's an option to make part of the interface bigger - background image doesn't stretch or resize, just stays black 12:42:03 the new part stays black 12:42:42 -!- Twilight13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:09 option to increase font-size - doesn't increase interface areas; results in stuff can't be read 12:43:54 Not a bug in a way. 12:44:03 healthbars of PC and NPC hidden behind 2.5D graphic.. since.. beta28 at least 12:44:13 i didn't call it a bug 12:45:45 yeah, it has plenty of stuff that needs polish 12:46:07 i really didn't like this new version, there are outstanding major bugs from the last one 12:46:36 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:02 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest68372 12:47:59 And still lot unbalanced. 12:48:38 -!- varsovie has left ##crawl-dev 13:14:51 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:23:31 !tell varsovie http://crawl.develz.org/other/gource-varsovie.avi 13:23:31 Napkin: OK, I'll let varsovie know. 13:24:44 monsters get permanent renamed to helpless if you stab them and they survive? 13:25:18 saw it in two different cdo trunk games 13:25:19 i think they get renamed to that if they are stab-able? 13:26:04 something like that happened at some point, but was fixed. looks like ucc rebroke it 13:26:14 or maybe it broke it in a different way :) 13:27:35 -!- varsovie has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:44 yeah, i think it's on mantis 13:29:32 yeah, I was going to figure out the best way of fixing it but I got tired of fixing UCC stuff 13:30:20 it looked like it happens if you fail a non-guaranteed stab, because the "helpless" prop is only removed inside the code path for a successful stab 13:30:59 ugh it hits it but does no damage 13:31:15 it doesn't seem particularly worth playing trunk at the moment :P 13:31:27 :( 13:32:33 I did play a full game under UCC and didn't notice anything hugely off with melee damage/accuracy, so maybe that much is mostly okay now 13:32:48 well, it looks to me like its going to be ready and bugfixed in time for 0.10 13:32:57 so merging it now was probably a good idea 13:33:08 more time in trunk = better 13:33:12 alefury: does it? not all bugs are obvious 13:33:25 thats why more time is better 13:33:34 well, i don't know when the aim for 0.10 is 13:33:35 sure, but I really wish we had waited for 0.11 13:33:46 besides, i think if nobody notices in two months, its probably not a major bug 13:34:11 I would have suggested that if I had had time to look at UCC before it was merged 13:34:36 MarvinPA: soon, according to the wiki 13:34:42 i think 15/12 and 15/1 13:34:56 right, which doesn't seem great if we're still planning on having constriction on top of all the ucc stuff 13:34:56 15/1 13:35:10 I'm pretty sure we said january. 13:35:59 well, you could push it back 13:36:10 seems like 0.9 only just came out :P 13:40:04 I have no say in any of this but I think testing a bit with UCC now, a week or so, and then deciding if it's time to revert is the est course of action. 13:40:26 s/revert/postpone 13:48:59 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:30 whatever happens, 0.10 is certainly going to be better than 0.9 :) 13:53:43 Most def. 13:58:43 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:24 -!- varsovie has left ##crawl-dev 14:17:16 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 14:17:45 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:11 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:07 "→" is a funny-looking disturbance ... 14:21:55 ↓←→ 14:23:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:36 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 14:30:39 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:37 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:53 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:52 ??spell power 14:39:53 spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2 + 2*avg school skill) * INT divided by 10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count). Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200. Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66. 14:40:36 tome actually added a thing that we might want to look at for inspiration 14:40:46 ??spell 14:40:46 spell[1/1]: ?/s 14:40:58 ??miscast 14:40:58 miscast[1/1]: Failure to cast spells causes various generally nasty things to occur, becoming nastier with spell level and spell failure. Miscasts come in severity 0,1,2,3; 0 is always harmless. See { miscast}. 14:41:06 apparently, it had spellpower->spelldamage stepdowns 14:41:12 ??spell successs 14:41:12 I don't have a page labeled spell_successs in my learndb. 14:41:15 ??spell success 14:41:16 spell success[1/1]: Success rate adjectives: useless 0%, terrible 0-5%, very poor 5-30%, poor 30-50%, fair 50-70%, good 70-80%, very good 80-90%, great 90-95%, excellent 95-99%, perfect 100%. 14:41:20 it moves all of those into direct spellpower stepdowns 14:41:31 * SamB was looking for the formula ... 14:41:41 ??spellcasting 14:41:42 spellcasting[1/2]: Skill, you need this to cast spells. If you don't know any, reading scrolls is close enough to gain the skill. (it will take (12 to 25) * (10 / int) * (2^(-apt/4)) scrolls, more if you don't have a full enough xp pool) 14:41:51 ??spellcasting[2] 14:41:52 spellcasting[2/2]: Gives you an extra 2 spell slots per level in spellcasting. Raising your spellcasting also gives you more MP, lowers {spell hunger}, and slightly boosts {spell success} and {spell power} for all spells. 14:42:00 so the stepping down takes place at the stat level rather than the spell effect level, and it's shown via colored tiers 14:42:06 it makes it way more obvious how it works 14:42:25 e.g., equipping a +10 spellpower item might only give you +7 spellpower if it crosses a tier transition 14:42:51 SamB: the formula is in spell power[1] ... 14:42:58 the 'halve the part over 50' is the stepdown thing 14:43:02 ??spell power 14:43:02 spell power[1/5]: (Spellcasting/2 + 2*avg school skill) * INT divided by 10 * (1.5 ^ enhancer count). Now halve the part over 50, halve the part over 100, halve the part over 150, and plain cap at 200. Negative enhancers use 0.5, not 0.66. 14:43:27 wait, I already saw tthatr 14:43:32 that is the spellpower formula 14:43:34 was looking for success rate formula now 14:43:44 there isn't a formula per se 14:43:50 and it was for unrelated reasons! 14:43:57 it checks your spell success number vs. a 3dlargenumber die 14:44:38 the success value has a formula but it's affected by more stuff than power 14:44:51 and it doesn't directly translate into percentages 14:45:38 * SamB is trying to rewrite the description for Spellcasting 14:46:20 spell success is basically just a function of spell level and adjusted spell power 14:46:44 where adjusted spell power means you don't count enhancers but you do count wizardry 14:46:46 or something like that 14:47:00 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:07 or actually probably wizardry enters the computation somewhere else 14:47:46 elliptic: wizardry, brilliance has a bonus beyond just the int boost iirc, wielding no vs one vs two handed weapons, armor, shield, 14:47:49 anyway the spell power formula is the only place skills and intelligence enter the computation 14:47:51 probably some more stuff 14:47:57 eronarn: right, right, there are extra factors 14:48:05 I meant the base 14:48:13 two-handed weapons affect spell success? 14:48:17 not any more 14:48:21 oh 14:48:26 also they never did, i thought 14:48:37 well, weapons with high base delay did, or something like that 14:48:38 just weapon speed afaik 14:48:40 or rather, they did but not because they were two-handed 14:48:41 yeah 14:49:00 i take it that weapons of speed don't still increase spell success then :P 14:49:07 they never did afaik 14:49:11 well, decrease less 14:49:18 it was just a penalty for base delay over 140 or something 14:49:21 it used base delay, I believe 14:49:24 there was definitely some code for that somewhere 14:49:27 i ran across it once 14:49:36 well it is certainly gone now :P 14:49:39 yes, i removed it :P 14:50:02 that's good then! 14:51:09