00:02:56 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1958-ga664e83 (32) 00:08:21 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:38 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1958-ga664e83 00:27:52 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:19 03dolorous * r50ff4a4b2905 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Remove unneeded blank line. 00:43:40 -!- Guest32593 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:01 -!- Guest32593 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:14 03dolorous * r9154a4c974fe 10/crawl-ref/source/art-data.txt: Fix wording. 00:49:25 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:31 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 01:22:47 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:57 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 01:27:52 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:16 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:43 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:46:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:39 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:18 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:18 -!- Pingas has quit [Client Quit] 02:02:40 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:05:20 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:23 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:02 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:32:43 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:29 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:49:42 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:07 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:09:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:11 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:10 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:12:56 uh 03:18:05 another lecture on md 03:20:54 mm, nothing new though 03:21:16 just "removing stuff is bad" spread out over 10 paragraphs 03:21:34 never, Never! NEVER!! remove stuff 03:26:06 *bored* 03:27:48 Well, it was nicely worded and not stupid. 03:46:22 "No more heroes from the halls of the mountain king will seek the orb of zot." <3 03:48:33 do you think it would help to comment that nh+forks still have dwarfs? :) 03:49:05 remove everything 03:49:16 start the game, you die 03:50:05 i support the rename all races with single letters movement 03:50:43 maximum player imagination achieved 03:52:02 I'm against that notion, my imagination is too bad :( 03:52:17 Unless we rename the game alphabet soup. 03:52:23 even more imagination is required if you replace all races with random CJK characters 03:52:40 Because my imagination is so bad I'd ust see an A running around T_T 03:52:41 alphabet soup is a more sensible name than stone soup :-) 03:53:02 let people rename races in their rcfiles and they can set minotaur_name = "Mountain Dwarf", problem solved 03:53:16 (that is not a serious suggestion btw) 03:53:19 :) 03:57:53 jeanjacques: Actually, it's stupid because then nobody would have any congitive way of differentiating the different combinationss. 03:58:19 "Minotaur" versus "vampire" is a heck of a lot easier to rationalise and go "Oh, you're playing an X, which means Y" than "Y7 and Y8". 03:58:56 -!- Twinge has quit [] 03:59:16 That was much the point of the blog comment, that MD give an easily graspable idea of what the player is playing. 04:01:16 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:08:12 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:12 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:43 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:59 Keskitalo: Well, yes, but by that definition they're just names to accurately group them together and thus none of them have a particularly better or worse definition and to remove one name isn't signifiantly bad ;) 04:46:26 (But by my own argument there's also no reason not to keep ti. Eh.) 04:50:15 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:01 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1960-g9154a4c 05:21:15 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:42 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 05:41:55 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:44:50 !seen kilobyte 05:44:50 I last saw kilobyte at Sun Nov 13 15:55:39 2011 UTC (19h 49m 11s ago) saying Eronarn: for normal races, just pig and bat. For octopodes, though... dragons dont have eight limbs, you see. on ##crawl-dev. 05:45:02 !seen elliptic 05:45:03 I last saw elliptic at Mon Nov 14 03:05:43 2011 UTC (8h 39m 19s ago) saying DD was 0.5 on ##crawl-dev. 05:48:19 hey deepleg :) 05:55:29 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:38 -!- Vandal has quit [] 06:06:38 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:45 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:52 Hi! 06:15:38 !tell elliptic I added some vague comments about no-healing-by-wait to the wiki. If you can do the same for no-eating, we can leave it there for a while :) 06:15:38 dpeg: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 06:16:14 !tell kilobyte Made a first, rough specification for the HS. We can discuss. I only explained a little on the wiki page. 06:16:14 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 06:39:35 -!- Vandal has quit [] 06:40:33 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:08 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:05 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:57:05 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:06 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:15 Morning 07:52:12 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:56 -!- Vandal has quit [] 08:04:20 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:58 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:02 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:20:58 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:22:33 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Would you like to know more?] 08:22:44 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:47 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:55 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 08:23:20 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:33:51 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:54 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 08:42:37 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:47 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:50:29 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:03 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:03 -!- valrus_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:04:54 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:36 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:11 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 09:11:24 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:13 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:18 -!- Vandal has quit [Client Quit] 09:12:36 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:57 DrPraetor 09:19:59 How 09:20:15 >< Wrong channel... - 09:29:38 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 09:30:43 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:32:39 -!- syraine is now known as xenene 09:32:45 -!- xenene is now known as syraine 09:32:47 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:15 -!- syraine is now known as xenene 09:35:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:08 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:40:40 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:49 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:05 Moth of Frailty Tile (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4899) by cjo 09:59:31 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:17 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:12:06 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 10:12:16 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:15 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:03 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:43 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:42:02 -!- xenene has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:52 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:33 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:27 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:47 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:55 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 10:54:14 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:20 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58:22 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:32 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:52 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:02 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:08 -!- alefury is now known as galefury 11:05:30 -!- galefury is now known as alefury 11:37:54 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:41:18 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:38 Swap checks on cursed wield/wear with size check (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4900) by XuaXua 11:46:34 Super active in here today :P 11:47:52 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:32 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:00 man, G is confusing in portal vaults 12:18:09 I keep trying to hit G 12:18:29 the G does what I wanted ... 12:18:35 ... and the aborts it! 12:19:49 darn, ".&&short" doesn't do what I wanted 12:20:54 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:11 wait a minute, if this is sorted by distance, why am I seeing Sewer stuff below non-Sewer stuff ?!? 12:22:24 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:39 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:41:44 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:35 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:42:35 -!- Guest32593 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:19 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:14 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:33 * SamB sorta wishes that skill training choices had a bigger range, like 3-5, and had both increment and decrement hotkeys 12:45:04 * SamB can't help but think of aumix/alsamixer's UIs 12:46:39 -!- Guest32593 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:21 !tell elliptic I recognize that it's not pretty, and I guess it's not nice to require scrolling where we didn't before on stdterms, but I really want there to be *some* way for users to see exactly what stash search prefixes any given item has. Any ideas about other ways to do it? 12:51:22 SamB: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 12:51:52 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:11 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:06:40 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:25 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:55 ??throwing 13:17:55 throwing[1/1]: Javelins and large rocks are good. Darts and stones are useless past the early game, except for darts of dispersal; don't train the skill just for those. See {blowgun[2]} for the skill's effect on needles. 13:18:18 SamB: what about just documenting all the special stash search strings somewhere? (Maybe this is already done, I don't know) I think usually when people are examining an item, they have no interest in how to search for it... what about some sort of help screen inside the stash search? 13:18:20 * SamB was hoping for something about throwable OBJ_WEAPONs 13:19:01 elliptic: it still seems important to allow people to easily check on their own 13:19:41 especially if they want to customize it! 13:20:25 well, I think the correct place for this documentation is not on every single item description page, but rather somewhere closer to the actual stash search menu 13:20:25 and again, I don't really care that it be shown *on the description screen* 13:20:42 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:49 I just want it to be possible for a player, given an item, somehow be able to see the prefixes 13:22:15 whoops. grammar error, but I think the meaning I was going for should be obvious! 13:22:23 this doesn't feel natural to me... the prefixes are only useful for searching for an item, and if you are looking at the item description then you don't need to search for it 13:22:45 yes, I understand that 13:22:48 a single page listing all the prefixes with a description of what they do sounds much more useful to me 13:24:03 (on a slightly different topic, it would be nice if maybe-ego and known-ego items had distinct prefixes...) 13:24:14 elliptic: that would not be a bad thing, either 13:25:15 though I still think it would be nice to address the debugging stash.lua replacements 13:25:53 I could also possibly see somehow splitting the item description screen into two screens... like, you have the basic information on the main screen, and then you can press some key to get less generally useful information, like prefixes 13:26:16 that could certainly work 13:27:23 there's already two screens! 13:27:31 oh wait maybe that's just monsters 13:27:36 do items have quotes? i don't know 13:28:41 I don't see any quote screens? 13:28:51 probably not then 13:28:57 monsters have two screens? 13:29:04 are those only used when the stuff doesn't fit on one screen? 13:29:06 ones with quotes do 13:29:16 "Press '!' to toggle between the overview and the extended description." 13:29:30 try it on a mummy 13:29:33 or a cockroach 13:29:46 oh, not a cockroach 13:29:52 I think I just assumed the quotes had disappeared :P 13:29:55 i thought they had a kafka quote but apparently not 13:30:02 heh 13:30:22 "extended description" isn't a very good name for the other page, either 13:30:23 so "extended description" has less information? 13:30:25 yeah 13:30:26 yup 13:30:43 really all description pages could use reorganizing 13:30:55 organizing would be nice, even 13:31:23 tip: add comments describing the intended organization 13:32:02 then, it might be easier to see where to put anything new that might be added 13:33:02 I mean, in general I think we should try to *avoid* adding new stuff, at least to the main description page... clutter is bad 13:35:34 by the way, why does tavern think that minotaur dodging apt got reduced to 0 from +1? 13:36:36 I've seen multiple people mention this but it didn't happen 13:37:47 uh oh the devs are going all 1984 on us 13:38:09 -!- DrPraetor has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:38:30 that is weird 13:40:15 although also Mi-related, someone in ##crawl was saying that MiTm turns out to be really good now :P 13:40:50 so maybe the magic apt tweaks did achieve something :D 13:40:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:41:53 MiEE is not as good 13:42:08 though statueform minotaur is pretty cool 13:46:09 are the monster quotes fully functional at the moment? 13:46:28 and I think probably they ought to be folded onto the main screen when they'll fit 13:47:01 they used to be 13:49:29 how come zombies've got nothing? 13:55:45 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:32 hmm, I found a bug 14:06:42 -!- heteroy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:31 it's been ignoring quotes with keys like __cap-O_suffix 14:07:44 because it was erroniously looking for __cap-O_prefix instead 14:08:40 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08:43 * SamB attempts to fix 14:08:51 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 14:29:02 hmm, why is the "press ! to toggle" not at the bottom of the terminal ... 14:29:50 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:25 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:12 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:17 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:34 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:03:33 -!- syllogism has quit [] 15:12:16 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:17 03SamB * r0982fd8c23e9 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Actually use monster-glyph-wide suffix entries in quote database. 15:21:10 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:33 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:02 it's awfully quiet in here 15:50:45 Sssh. 15:52:30 I guess I forgot about crawl-dev nap time :-) 15:53:39 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:32 -!- Danei has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:53 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 16:51:08 !tell dpeg great comment! 16:51:09 Napkin: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 16:52:41 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:25 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.24/20111103063747]] 16:56:47 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:59:52 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:46 we need more monster quotes 17:12:48 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:33:39 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:35 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:20 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:41:16 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:48:02 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 17:48:06 Hi all 17:49:43 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:43 I have a perfect proposal! 17:52:46 rename halflings to dwarves ;) 17:53:26 why didn't we think of this a long time ago? :) 17:54:19 let's compromise, call them Mountain Halflings 17:54:24 Mountain Half-dwarf 17:54:30 Dwarfling 17:55:19 Soupling :D 17:55:53 no, let's rename some other race to mountain dwarf 17:55:59 we'll pick via a fair algorithm 17:56:01 !rng @race 17:56:02 The RNG chooses: Spriggan. 17:56:20 rename spriggans to dwarves, sayeth Henzell 17:56:47 actually 17:56:59 i should fork dcss and rename every race to a variant of dwarf 17:57:10 and sell that 17:57:12 Dwarven Crawl. 17:57:19 dungeon crawl dwarf soup 17:58:10 Zannick: that's my april fool's joke plan for next year 17:58:16 due: sweet 17:58:26 dwarftaurs 17:58:36 half-dwarf half-minotaur 17:58:44 "Mountain Crawl Stone Soup", every race becomes "Mountain X", all monsters before "mountain X" and small ones get "dwarf" added in. 17:58:51 demondwarf 17:59:02 red dracodwarf 17:59:02 No, mountainspawn. 17:59:44 the jellydwarf splits in two! 18:00:13 titanic slimedwarf 18:01:33 -!- greatzebu has quit [Quit: greatzebu] 18:01:41 noo titanic mountai nslime 18:02:00 we can have two different forks :P 18:18:45 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:17 So has anyone besides dpeg made a stab at keeping a mostly-pacifist Ely-ite alive? 18:19:32 I know he's been managing it somehow but I get killed if I'm lucky enough not to starve to death. 18:32:34 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:59 -!- Vandal has quit [] 18:35:21 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:33 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:18 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:19 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:50:26 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:06 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:07 -!- valrus has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:56:50 -!- alefury_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:55 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:01 -!- alefury_ is now known as alefury 19:08:11 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:37 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 19:10:26 -!- Blade has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:38 -!- Blade has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:53 -!- _Blade_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:34 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:07 -!- _Blade_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:25:35 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:33 hi guys 19:31:32 hiya 19:32:15 I'm sure this isn't news, but the menu system is a pain to deal with. Just sayin' 19:35:41 can spectral humanoids open doors? 19:36:35 greatzebu: "system" 19:36:35 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:35 ? 19:36:37 what system? 19:36:58 I guess "class hierarchy" would be more accurate 19:37:09 but yeah, the problem is really that there isn't a system to speak of 19:37:23 just about everything needs to be coded explicitly 19:43:40 at first, I hadn't even realized you were talking about the code side ... 19:43:58 ... but yeah, it does seem pretty awful 19:45:17 do you propose to do something about it? 19:46:01 oh yeah, I explained that poorly. I've been doing some work on adding a menu for autopickup selection, maybe I will try to incorporate some general menu improvements 19:46:15 that would be quite welcome 19:54:57 * due documenting 19:55:06 Why do we expose exp, exp_pool and exp_points? 19:55:19 Those numbers are kinda uselesss now. 19:56:26 due: exp_pool is totally and completely useless, certainly 19:57:06 I'm not sure what exp *is*, though, and I'm not certain exp_points is necessarily totally useless? 19:57:20 I mean, it might make more sense to a script than to a user... 19:57:28 exp_points at least used to be leaking information that wasn't available in-game 19:57:35 I don't know whether it still is, but that should be fixed 19:57:53 players shouldn't have access to their raw xp point total 20:01:43 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:19 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:10 elliptic: I'll nuke that, then. 20:05:11 exposing xl and percentage progress to next level is fine, of course, if that is done anywhere... though really I can't imagine percentage progress being very useful 20:05:42 I don't think it's exposing percentag,e though 20:05:52 It exposes XL, exp_pool and experience points. 20:06:24 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:14 percentage progress tells demonspawn when to avoid draining when they're at 95% 20:07:17 ! 20:08:18 -!- valrus_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:35 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:59 percentage is in the UI; fair's fair! 20:13:03 -!- valrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:58 due: xp total is available -- you can just multiply xp aptitude by percentage 20:40:10 so there's no information leak 20:40:19 exp_pool is utterly useless, though 20:41:00 LUARET1(you_exp, number, you.experience_level) 20:41:00 LUARET1(you_exp_pool, number, you.exp_available) 20:41:00 LUARET1(you_exp_points, number, you.experience) 20:41:18 exp should be named xl 20:42:31 Ely's abilities: most are ABFLAG_CONF_OK for no obvious reasons 20:42:33 I came up with such a good branch end, but I've made the end a little too hard. 20:43:30 technically only ABIL_ELYVILON_PURIFICATION needs it, could be nice to players and leave both self-healings there. But healing others? Would you want a drunken doctor touch you? 20:43:48 heteroy: which branch? 20:44:05 kilobyte: uh, percentage only tells you very approximate xp point total 20:44:05 swamp. could maybe be retooled for crypt 20:44:27 the one with the mutant casting fish and mesmerizing kraken? 20:44:38 a new one 20:44:41 doesn't reallllly sound much worse then current undead end 20:44:44 oh? 20:45:05 this one is terracotta statues with weapons/spells 20:45:08 kilobyte: xp points don't exist in game currently from a player's point of view, there's no way a lua function should expose them even if the information leak isn't very important 20:45:13 elliptic: within 1% 20:45:43 you can learn them from @?? or from any spoiler sheet 20:45:55 what part of "in game" do you not understand 20:46:02 are there any spoiler sheets left 20:46:17 HangedMan: learndb, badwiki, etc 20:46:24 oh, hah 20:46:34 I was thinking like 20:46:39 ??that finnish spoiler page 20:46:40 that finnish spoiler page[1/1]: http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/kielosto/crawl_spoilers/ss/ 20:47:02 kilobyte: it is named xl 20:47:04 weaker statue creatures. the final room is a bunch of them with polearms and blink spells. then to get the room, you can open one of two doors. one with a beefy "terracotta emperor" and the rune. the other has a "terracotta arcmage" which among other things, casts tukimas ball. 20:47:12 elliptic: you're trying to hide information that is already available -- so this brings no gain other than somewhat complicating scripts 20:47:13 kilobyte: anyway "within 1%" and "exact" are not the same thing 20:47:15 to get the rune rather 20:47:20 it isn't available! 20:47:57 the information of your exact xp point total _is not something you have access to in game_ 20:48:09 is said terracotta emperor and archmages worse then the lernaean hydra or a death drake? 20:48:11 due: ah, right. In the code they're exp and exp_points, in the interface, xl and exp. 20:48:29 doors in swamp feel a bit awkward though, nearly all current swamp ends are open masses 20:48:42 potentailly as bad as lernaean hydra. 20:48:48 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:49 kilobyte: yeah 20:48:50 but it is a statue. 20:48:59 so you could just apport? 20:49:12 or does it have ranged attacks 20:49:17 kilobyte: you might as well have a lua script telling people the exact failure chance of their spells... we give that to them approximately in game, too 20:49:35 i guess you could apport. maybe I need a few items on the rune 20:49:39 or maybe the number of skill points they have 20:49:52 elliptic: actually, I think skill points does do that; I need to check 20:49:55 user lua scripts aren't supposed to leak information ever, however minor 20:50:06 the archmage has ranged attacks. the emperor just has reaching with a bardiche 20:50:13 exact exp is not shown only because it's not very interesting 20:50:41 elliptic: what would you gain from knowing the exact failure rate? 20:50:45 kilobyte: if you want a lua script to do something, go make that information available in game first 20:51:22 exact failure rates would probably allow you to precisely determine if you should cast that next spell 20:51:23 unfortunately haste other doesn't work on statues, I wanted for some of the lesser groups 20:51:46 i agree with elliptic, though -- there's not necessarily any harm to it, but I don't see any point exposing exact XP. 20:51:47 exact failure rate is probably a bad example since you could compute that from your skill values if you read the formulas carefully in the source code 20:52:18 does it have high enough ac/resists to not make it a trivial fight for conjurers? 20:52:19 none of these things are very useful, sure 20:52:25 but lua still shouldn't do them 20:52:33 and wouldn't somebody just close the door on the archmage 20:53:03 the game doesn't show, for example, the list of runes possible to get. You can get that from lua and spoilers. 20:53:05 Does anyone use that/ 20:53:07 is that an info leak? 20:53:30 perhaps it should. 20:53:33 A rune info screen would be nice. 20:53:39 Especially now that they're gold-like. 20:53:49 kilobyte: probably it should show that in game, I'm surprised it doesn't... but how does lua tell you this? 20:54:04 spoilers do, of course... this discussion has nothing to do with spoilers 20:54:08 elliptic: so is exact xp value, as you can learn that from adding up xp gains from every monster 20:54:11 It would be a good idea to close the door on the archmage 20:54:17 kilobyte: uh, no 20:54:19 Isn't XP gains randomised? 20:54:20 monster xp value isn't fixed 20:54:21 yes 20:54:38 fixed unless the monster levelled up 20:54:41 -!- xenene has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:41 no it isn't 20:54:46 statues have pretty good resists 20:54:48 if it did, you can correct it by tracking the percentage 20:54:59 wait, XP isn't random? 20:55:15 random_var if you're going to try really hard :p 20:55:20 pretty sure XP is random 20:56:01 @??dragon 20:56:02 dragon (03D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 20, 13, 13 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1357 | Sp: flame blast (3d24). 20:56:02 @??dragon 20:56:03 kilobyte: you also don't know what proportion of damage was done by you and what proportion by summons 20:56:03 @??dragon 20:56:05 dragon (03D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 20, 13, 13 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1357 | Sp: flame blast (3d24). 20:56:08 dragon (03D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 20, 13, 13 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(64), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1357 | Sp: flame blast (3d24). 20:56:15 uh 20:56:20 kilobyte: you know how monster works, right? 20:56:23 Gretell generates and averages XP 20:56:25 yes 20:56:38 I think generates 100 and averages the XP, health, etc, across that 20:56:48 speaking of 20:56:50 @??spriggan baker 20:56:51 unknown monster: "spriggan baker" 20:56:54 @?spriggan baker 20:56:55 spriggan baker (16i) | Speed: 16 | HD: 7 | Health: 15-27 | AC/EV: 1/20 | Damage: 10 | Flags: see invisible, 07vault | Res: 06magic(65) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 305. 20:56:56 Discuss. 20:57:21 Was Spriggan baker in 0.9? 20:57:28 yes 20:57:32 ahah 20:57:34 so it is a regression 20:57:47 did you decide whether it has something to do with spriggan baker appearing in two different vaults? 20:57:53 no, it's not that 20:57:58 Because it works fine locally 20:59:06 it just seems to be the script that is broken somehow 20:59:41 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:13 for the record, exper_value() looks at the monster's maxhp 21:00:18 which can vary a lot 21:01:21 @??human 21:01:21 human (15@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 3-67 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 246. 21:02:11 looks like you can't get the exact value of maxhp but some sources leak it 21:02:14 I thought that some things like that were weird 21:02:20 @?? human hd:7 21:02:20 human (15@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 24-51 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 284. 21:02:25 mmm, better 21:02:31 like, say, monster tiers (although this is shoved into broad ranges) 21:02:45 kilobyte: that's not leaking the exact value 21:02:56 also monster tiers are visible in-game so that's not a leak 21:03:15 @??human hp:500 21:03:16 human (15@) | Speed: 10 | HD: 7 | Health: 500 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 1388. 21:03:21 except that visible tiers shouldn't depend on the actual value 21:03:26 which is supposed to be hidden 21:03:45 mons_threat_level() takes an argument "real" which is then ignored 21:03:52 kilobyte: yeah, good point 21:04:20 looks like this particular leak could use some plugging 21:04:21 tiers should probably never use the actual value of maxhp 21:04:37 hmm 21:04:42 it never finds the baker on CDO 21:06:38 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:13 Okay. 21:12:31 It skips zotdef, builder and tutorial ofolders. 21:13:12 Ahah. 21:13:15 It is what I thought it was, okay. 21:13:45 Shoulld be fixed. 21:13:52 looks like we have two files named "large.des". 21:13:56 It was only ever parsing the one of them. 21:14:07 I got too clever, it seems! 21:14:25 @??spriggan baker 21:14:26 spriggan baker (16i) | Speed: 16 | HD: 7 | Health: 15-27 | AC/EV: 1/20 | Damage: 10 | Flags: see invisible, 07vault | Res: 06magic(65) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 306. 21:14:31 and there w ego 21:16:06 Okay, I fixed it 21:16:35 So is the plan to remove Dispel Undead from necromancy cancelled? 21:16:53 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:18:07 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:27 due: the baker is a silly idea -- a redefinition everyone sees while the real monster is real 21:21:37 could be replaced 21:22:08 although I'd start with adding more vaults, there's only two currently so this one is overabundant 21:23:16 repurpose the dwarf alchemist garden things 21:23:29 HangedMan: heh, good idea 21:23:56 for exper_value: only random Pan lords have unknown hd, right? 21:24:00 also that vault with the three bears and the porridge? 21:24:30 there's an issue with zombies: if I take base hd, "orc warrior zombie" would go down to "orc zombie", etc 21:25:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:27:12 kilobyte: My issue with the baker has nothing to do with the actual monster, just that @?? wasn't seeing it while @? was 21:31:04 isn't @?? supposed to be monster-trunk? 21:32:29 It is. 21:32:44 @? is 0.9, @?? is running 0.10a 21:32:44 unknown monster: "is 0.9, @?? is running 0.10a" 21:33:38 on CDO: ./monster-trunk 'spriggan baker' works 21:33:55 Yes. 21:33:57 I just fixed it. 21:35:08 <3 21:35:11 :D 21:35:16 It was my own mistake with the code. 21:35:29 Speaking of, it would be nice to mrge monster into the crawl code-base. 21:35:35 But I don't thnk it's doable. 21:36:08 well, why? It literally calls unmodifed Crawl's functions. 21:37:15 due: incidentally, if you are ever in the mood to fix other things with monster, there are several things (new attack flavours and chunk types and such) that have been added in the last few versions that monster isn't currently displaying 21:38:59 elliptic: hm 21:39:11 kilobyte: I thin kthe compile process is slightly different, but I could be wrong. 21:39:36 due: an example: 21:39:38 @??death yak 21:39:38 death yak (08Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 58-102 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 30 | Res: 06magic(93) | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 1057. 21:39:46 that chunk type 21:41:06 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:43 elliptic: actually, that's a bug in monster 21:42:50 it doesn't know about poison_contam 21:42:52 kilobyte: ... yes 21:42:54 03kilobyte * r48de92c2314f 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-data.h: Fix a missing field in Control Undead. 21:42:57 03kilobyte * r80855e85f82d 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Remove a surprising "else" after a #define. 21:42:58 03kilobyte * r9015d9ef563f 10/crawl-ref/source/cluautil.h: Hush a warning. 21:42:58 03kilobyte * r6e77737a2a27 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-item.cc: Don't check that an unsigned value is >= 0. 21:42:58 03kilobyte * r8629ea2a4f77 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Add missing ZP cost field for non-ZotDef abilities. 21:42:58 03kilobyte * r6b8e9e10f304 10/crawl-ref/source/abl-show.cc: Elyvilon: don't allow healing others while confused. 21:43:02 03kilobyte * r8a1495f32ef7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-util.cc mon-util.h): Don't leak monster hp in visible tiers. 21:43:02 03kilobyte * ra314b56b4756 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Disable an utterly asinine warning. 21:43:16 kilobyte: thus why I mentioned it to due :P 21:45:04 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:06 a trivial fix, but if due is already editing monster, let's not interfere 21:47:15 due: could you also replace that case with "???" or something that says it's an error? 21:49:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:09 also a few attack flavors are missing... not sure exactly which ones, but certainly AF_ANTIMAGIC and AF_PAIN at least 21:54:54 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:59 Evening 21:55:09 actually 21:55:14 I'm just writing now and then i'm off to piano 21:55:22 so feel free to tweak monster, I'm finished with it for the day 21:55:59 elliptic: good point 21:56:19 03kilobyte * r3a6add56f2eb 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.h: Don't use default arguments in function types, clang++ chokes on them. 22:01:20 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:21 kilobyte, I'm pretty much just searching for things to fix atm, doing side-by-side comparisons of combat with master to make sure I've not missed anything obvious, etc. 22:02:27 Where to go from here? 22:02:35 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:25 Cryp71c: so you mean, it should be working already? 22:08:35 aye 22:08:59 -!- valrus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:07 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:57 @??harpy 22:10:58 harpy (03H) | Speed: 25 | HD: 7 | Health: 24-52 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 19, 14 | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(28), 03poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 622. 22:13:35 -!- valrus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20:21 @??harpy 22:20:22 harpy (03H) | Speed: 25 | HD: 7 | Health: 24-52 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 19, 1410(steal food) | Flags: fly | Res: 06magic(28), 03poison | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 622. 22:20:27 yay 22:21:20 kilobyte: thanks 22:22:07 I also still hate food theft. :) 22:22:31 i would not object to making harpies have a hungry-ghost style attack instead. 22:28:00 Say, are we sure none of the monsters are anachronisms? (Did they actually plague adventurers in the time period(s) from which the game draws?) 22:28:56 SamB, I wasn't ever aware that crawl drew from a single specific time frame (or even time period) or fantasy setting 22:29:23 kilobyte: isn't there some rule somewhere about that? 22:29:26 I've always considered it (mostly) abstract. 22:29:40 SamB: Yes/no -- we don't usually allow things <300 years old. 22:31:14 300 years unless it has something to do with pirates :p 22:31:43 what's the rule for things piratical? 22:31:54 follow the movies? 22:32:34 "hide it from dpeg" :p 22:33:09 lol 22:33:13 so far the only thing I managed to smuggle is captain's cutlass 22:33:25 ssssssh! 22:33:28