00:03:45 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1912-gfe068ac (32) 00:08:47 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 00:18:10 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:51 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1912-gfe068ac 00:22:55 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:09 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:12 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:24:27 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:30 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:46 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:15 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:27 -!- Guest32593 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:50 -!- Guest32593 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:01 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:58 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:26 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:00 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:41 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:01 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:09 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:26 eve 02:18:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:36 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:14 hi due 02:24:19 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:16 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 02:26:16 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:10 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:49:53 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:50:03 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:50:09 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:49 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 02:51:28 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:55 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 02:52:11 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:05 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:10:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:44 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 03:11:52 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:00 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:04 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:52 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 03:34:45 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:35:44 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:28 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:57 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 04:09:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:00 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:53 due: Yay for holies! 04:32:17 Random thought: perhaps Yred could grant rHoly? 04:36:06 hi. can we get tall panlords now that roctavian made tiles for them? 04:36:52 The additional tile of pandemonium lord (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4888) by Denzi 04:40:01 holy crap, those are nice 04:40:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:18 great to see some not-so-humanoid pan lord tiles 04:48:10 alefury: On my todo 04:48:20 nice 04:48:29 are pan lord tiles generated based on pan lord description? 04:48:33 Looking at this right now https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3936 04:48:42 G-Flex: only wings / no wings 04:48:47 oh 04:48:49 as far as i know 04:49:07 what are those wings second from the left 04:49:18 they look like bone except weird 04:49:46 mummy wrappings? 04:50:04 i think weird is fine 04:50:10 I don't mean good-weird 04:50:15 theyre among the old ones anyway 04:50:38 i think its supposed to be bone, yeah 04:50:44 I think they look fine behind the bodies, actually 04:50:58 yeah 04:50:59 Hand-"wings" would be cool 04:51:07 And tentacles! 04:51:11 wings covered in eyes! 04:51:14 yesss 04:51:22 (seraphim are supposed to have those) 04:51:33 G-Flex: I do agree they're the least great pair though 04:51:49 I think they're just a bit too lumpy 04:52:02 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:03 haha, the succubus body has little high heeled hooves 04:52:36 Not quite sure what to do with the paper doll tiles, galehar's note that it'd be nice to choose a ready-made set of them is good, I don't think we have the functionality for that though and I'm not going to add it 04:53:06 Maybe I could add the tiles with a filename that is common for all the pieces in the set 04:53:29 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:58 Or, I could add them with more general names and keep the issue in mind for reference until we get predefined set functionality. 04:54:01 i think some are better than some of the current ones 04:54:16 and they all look great 04:54:22 just some dont fit anything in the game 04:54:44 but they could be made available for doll customization. not sure anyone uses that, but its a nice feature. 04:55:09 i like the black knight axe for exec axe for example, the current one doesnt look big enough 04:55:30 yeah, customization - I've seen some thread posts/wiki page things about doll customization, some people use it 04:55:41 some could also be used for randarts or fixedarts 04:55:46 kilobyte commented sometime that it is well hidden, few know about it 04:55:49 yeah 04:56:45 i think the shields could easily be used for artifacts 04:57:41 and the staves in the right column look good for random staff appearances, except they dont have an inventory tile, which all the current randstaves have 04:58:03 alefury: Could you make a list and add it as a note to the issue? I don't really play tiles.. :P 04:58:12 hmkay 04:58:40 Thank you! 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1912-gfe068ac 05:05:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:05:49 yawn 05:06:06 Keskitalo: All that's really left ot do is a silver halo for silver stars, but I'm so far utterly failing to do it properly 05:06:40 Oooh, I love the tentacle one. 05:07:26 What does Denzi use? 05:08:17 Some magic program to lay them out like that -- or manual? 05:12:48 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:13 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:27:50 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:37 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:35:50 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:01 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 05:41:35 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45:47 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:20 due: some really ancient tool... if you look closely at his images, you can notice for example that all color intensities are divisible by 32 05:56:17 Keskitalo: commented on https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=3936 05:56:41 are doll tile variations for randarts a possibility? would be very cool i think. also please comment on the diagonal staves. 05:58:01 kilobyte: hm -- like that amiga os tool? 05:58:06 I think I should sleep 06:07:22 sleep well, so you can be whipped into finishing holies and abyssals soon :p 07:02:49 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:10 03evilmike * r1aa6f8fa0d3d 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Change ring of sustenance formula (relative rather than absolute). 07:42:03 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:24 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:11 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:22:09 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:36 ERROR in tileview.cc at line 946: non-door file (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4889) by tsohg 08:28:30 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:33:13 evilmike: hm, I always thought it was intended that there wasn't any easy solution to troll metabolism 08:33:48 making a single ring make trolls use only a little more food than a human (and less than a centaur, for instance) seems wrong to me 08:33:49 well, that exact suggestion was on the planning page 08:34:05 it didn't give numbers, so i went with the most conservative i could think of 08:34:38 hmm 08:35:02 A single ring brings a troll down to 4, which is the same as a centaur presently 08:35:18 oh, I thought centaurs were 5 for some reason 08:36:20 anyway I'd be happier if a single ring only brought a troll down to 5 at most... I can see that it is difficult to justify this formulawise though 08:36:38 5 would be reasonable 08:38:01 what about making each ring multiply food use by 0.6 (rounded down)? 08:38:46 yeah I was thinking something along the same lines. That looks like it would work 08:41:18 -!- Wop has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:28 hm, looking at the code currently, the sustenance line should really be moved either earlier or later now that it is not additive 08:44:48 do we want it to help with stuff like ring of regeneration hunger? 08:45:48 I wasn't sure. The description just says it makes you need to eat less often. 08:47:34 yeah, I'm not sure... I think most natural would probably be to make it only affect your base hunger coming from metabolism, and not extra hunger from other sources 08:47:51 but I could also see making it affect everything 08:48:06 though then there's the question of why it wouldn't affect spell hunger 08:48:49 I figured it is some kind of metabolic thing, and certain effects just speed up your metabolism 08:49:18 hm, I guess that makes sense actually 08:49:36 so I'll move that line to the end of the function 08:50:23 what +hunger effects are there other than randarts / regen anyways 08:50:35 haste, invis, being a troll 08:50:44 where troll regeneration could perhaps just go after the sust bonus? 08:51:05 oh huh i didn't realize haste/invis have a hunger effect 08:51:07 chrisoelmueller: well, I think the point of all this was to make sust help trolls more :) 08:51:40 but not to the degree of everybody running for =sust because it's totally awesome i guess 08:51:56 to give some context, the initial discussion (some weeks ago) was about extended endgame trolls having an issue post-hive removal 08:52:19 and then it came up that sust is kind of a junk ring for trolls because of how it only subtracts 2, so I think dpeg added it to the todo list 08:55:21 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:53 -!- Wop has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:54 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 09:03:23 hmm, i'm taking a look at yred gifting in an attempt to improve the formula 09:03:41 i found something really weird in my game... I think st mentioned something like this before 09:04:00 there's a "sweet spot" somewhere in the mid levels where you seem to get the best gifts 09:04:05 this could be luck but it didn't feel like it 09:04:27 right now i have it increasing the gift threshold at a much slower rate, (you.num_current_gifts[you.religion] / 2) instead of just num_current_gifts 09:04:46 and also i tried to make it stop gifting you really weak stuff once the threshold gets high 09:06:07 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:21 [15:05:20] <+MarvinPA> which would mean later on your gifts would start to slow down quite a bit but you'd also be mainly getting good stuff when it does arrive 09:06:47 i dunno if there needs to be some kind of cap on bone dragon/servitor numbers as well though... possibly there does? 09:06:48 I did get some good stuff later on 09:07:03 it's just that by the time i reached lair 8 i was rolling with 3 profane servitors and 3 or 4 bone dragons 09:07:22 MarvinPA_: the yred gifting system is bad and we should just redo it 09:07:26 hm, well slowing down the rate that the gift threshold increases should definitely help there 09:07:32 this is without an amulet of faith. I probably was a bit lucky, but that kind of luck is too much. I could've dived to vault:8 if I wanted 09:09:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:10:24 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:12:10 03elliptic * r78cd2f87d533 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Tweak the effect of ring of sustenance a little more. 09:18:34 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:14 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:21:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:23:09 one thing I should also mention. I cleared vault:8 using two profane servitors and three bone dragons, plus judicious use of recall. It was quite easy and I didn't lose any. It was only depth 23 though 09:23:30 which is to say, if you get more than one of those in the mid game, it makes things incredibly easy 09:25:01 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:12 hmm 09:25:22 maybe there should be a cap on them as well as the other stuff, then 09:26:39 it would probably be best if you could never have more than one servitor and one bone dragon at a time, yeah 09:26:58 or something like that 09:27:23 hmm 09:28:00 one problem is how do you deal with off-level ones 09:28:00 seems less easy to implement but i shall have a look 09:28:03 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:28:18 myself I make level annotations _a lot_ to keep track of allies...but most people dont do that 09:28:30 it would really suck if you "lost" one and never got gifted another 09:29:08 combine an yred ally cap with making recall work across levels (for non-zombieish servants) 09:29:46 well now we're completely out of the scope of things i know how to do but yes, that does sound like a good solution :P 09:33:59 have you ever played brogue? in that game when you enter a new level, your allies just follow you through the stairs a few turns later 09:34:04 doesnt matter where they were on the other level 09:34:31 hm, that's interesting 09:34:33 it would probably be a lot of work to get something like that working, but the way it works is so... clean 09:35:53 I think I like that a lot... it preserves behavior with shafts taking you away from your allies 09:36:29 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:38 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:38:56 also it makes the "go downstairs surrounded by allies" strategy less ridiculous, which is probably good 09:39:50 yeah 09:40:23 I hate having to do that in crawl with a large herd, because in cramped levels it turns into "go down stairs, tell allies to wait, go back up, repeat" 09:40:54 though I guess summoners might still spam summons for a while before going downstairs, so that they'd have a trail of them coming out the stairs after them 09:41:32 maybe it's not necessary for temporary allies 09:41:37 just make temp allies not take stairs, yeah 09:41:50 making temp allies never take stairs could be good, yes 09:42:17 I was mainly thinking of the mummies of sif who always summon eight creatures before going downstairs currently 09:45:11 it also doesn't really sound that hard to make perma-allies follow you through the stairs a few turns later (whenever there is free space around the stairs, I assume)... I'm not sure I could manage to code it, but I'm sure someone like kilobyte could if we convinced him it was a good idea :P 09:46:02 staff of air enhancement proc not triggering off of evocations skill (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4891) by derekthano 09:46:02 Transforming and unequipping can directly lead to drowning (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4890) by minmay 09:46:48 "proc" 09:46:59 that's not a bug anyway 09:47:02 yeah 09:47:02 proc is a very long-established term :P 09:47:10 i know, it's just a funny one 09:47:14 what does it mean 09:47:27 supposedly its short for process, and comes from some MUD 09:47:45 'trigger special ability thing' 09:47:50 one issue, I guess: we'd want some way of telling individual allies to stay on their level, I think 09:47:54 MarvinPA: I agree on making yred gifts slower and the lower/middle gifts better 09:47:57 elliptic: I'm not sure if helping manage herds is a good thing 09:48:15 but Yred needs a complete overhaul of gifting/managing, yeah 09:48:42 kilobyte: well, better than letting people have herds and not have any good way to manage them IMO 09:49:05 we discussed giving Yred a cap with cross-level recall (including deleted levels like Pan or portal vaults) 09:49:07 currently bringing all your orcs or ghouls or whatever to a level is an interface hassle 09:49:17 I also want Yred's enslave soul to be the centrepiece 09:49:28 that's such a cool ability. shame it's hard to use 09:49:30 orcs do a floodfill so it's enough to have them contiguous 09:49:32 enslave soul could deinitely use some love, yeah... 09:49:36 definitely* 09:49:43 I almost enslaved rupert... didn't kill him fast enough though :( 09:50:17 I've never had trouble killing things fast enough, just recall allies -> died in 2 turns 09:50:32 it was hard to use when you needed to get the killing blow 09:50:49 if you weren't there during the previous discussion: there are two main ideas 09:51:17 mine is cross-level recall, a small cap and upgrades to existing monsters if you're at the cap (or perhaps even earlier) 09:53:14 Eronarn's is gifts having two tiers: "escort" and "popcorn". Popcorn uses existing rules, escort looks at the amount of escort-class allies near you and if there's too few, a gift would instead bring an old one next to you, up to the immediate escort threshold (probably with a far smaller timeout). 09:53:25 kilobyte: this isn't just a problem with yred, though 09:54:17 the previous ideas have been good, but they've been focused on yred specifically... whereas I see this idea from brogue as something with the potential to make other things better also 09:54:24 hmm right, there's more than the gift cap 09:54:30 a cap on yred gifts is probably still a good idea 09:54:56 "probably"? 09:55:02 okay, definitely :P 09:55:11 kilobyte: by upgrades do you mean upgrades to specific monsters or upgrades to the general quality 09:55:16 starting with no servitors at mid-Lair 09:55:44 Eronarn: level-ups or replacement 09:56:05 Stairs to Ecumenical Temple to be surrounded completed by glass. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4892) by Cryxx 09:56:11 twisted resurrection is another thing that is an interface nightmare in this way 09:56:11 I haven't looked how many of Yred's servants have possible upgrades 09:56:26 kilobyte: very few currently, but i do have ideas for upgrades for them :) 09:56:58 it's a good chance to add new monster undead 09:57:12 (unless we are making aboms not take stairs or putting a very low cap on how many you can have at once) 09:59:30 or perhaps a formula that raises costs of making more once you have a few (to infinity at some point) 09:59:32 in particular i'd like to see 'classed' wights and ghouls - the former has no upgrade path and the prospect of the latter is terrifyingly awesome 10:00:05 @??ghoul 10:00:05 rotting hulk -> necrophage -> ghoul, wraith -> phantasmal warrior 10:00:05 ghoul (05n) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 128-172 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Damage: 3004(rot), 3004(rot) | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 2428. 10:00:11 ghoul blademaster :D 10:00:32 ghouls are high-end stuff now 10:00:35 @??death cob 10:00:36 death cob (08%) | Speed: 25 | HD: 10 | Health: 46-82 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 20 | Flags: 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1272. 10:00:53 yeah ghouls are good, just a tier below bone dragons and servitors, I'd say 10:00:59 it also helps that they can use weapons 10:01:04 wight could use a greater version though, yeah 10:01:09 the gifting function thinks death cobs are still stronger than ghouls 10:01:26 they should be in the other order, yeah 10:01:33 death cobs are pretty nice too though 10:02:09 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:11 i think we should drop death cobs from yred, they're too silly 10:02:12 keep them zot only 10:02:47 they're in the "silly but fun" group for me 10:03:03 when the stars are right and spammals are finally removed from vampires, Yred can have them back 10:03:11 as for a greater wight: wight gladiator, or legionnaire, or centurion, or hoplite. something roman or greek for sure! 10:03:14 unlike, say, triple swords, which bring nothing beyond insulting realism 10:03:36 let's s/double sword/bastard sword/;s/triple sword/claymore/ 10:03:54 an up-leveled wight with a buckler and a spear (which is reaching now!) would be great for yred i think 10:04:11 03kilobyte * rb1279f4c3700 10/crawl-ref/ (.gitignore settings/dolls.txt): Don't keep doll settings in version control. 10:04:13 yeah 10:04:21 03kilobyte * r136c46c5053a 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Switch the order of death cobs and ghouls on Yred's gift list. 10:04:37 using wights more heavily for yred makes sense in that they're supposed to be undead warriors mainly 10:04:45 zombies are really boring chaff 10:04:45 aye 10:04:52 that too 10:05:01 (unless quicksilver or the like) 10:05:06 @??ancient champion 10:05:06 ancient champion (08z) | Speed: 10 | HD: 10 | Health: 54-76 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Damage: 25 | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, 07vault | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 814 | Sp: mystic blast (3d15), slow, haste. 10:05:11 these could be fun yredites too 10:05:21 they can summon, that would be problematic 10:05:32 evilmike: only some of the spellsets 10:05:40 maybe replace the summon one with a haste other one? 10:06:02 haste other is always neat 10:06:20 except when they target things through you while you're resting 10:06:27 and give you yellow glow 10:06:31 bug 10:12:37 they're called crimson imps now!!! <3 10:13:35 -!- elliptic has left ##crawl-dev 10:13:43 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:44 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:40 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:48:08 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:18 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:59 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:17 anyone encountered =lev not identifying when worn? 11:09:12 dpeg: did you have another source of lev? 11:09:25 hm, don't think so 11:09:37 seems I did! 11:09:47 * dpeg has been using blink and sunlight all the time :O 11:09:50 ogaz: thank you! 11:10:12 03MarvinPA * re0044479f8c3 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/spells.txt: Improve LRD description 11:10:22 03MarvinPA * r7194cc9b146b 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Don't try to identify magic staves when hitting things with them (they auto-id now) 11:10:23 03MarvinPA * rea54e9d12de1 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: Don't let Yred gift high-level monsters as early, stop gifting low-level monsters and slow down gifting at higher thresholds 11:11:47 MarvinPA: vampires..... spammals................ 11:12:19 it's actually Vampire Summon. You can even put it in a randbook, memorize it, and cast it as a level 3 spell 11:14:07 what would vampires get in place of their summon, btw? I hate vampires as much as the next person but they dont really do anything besides that spell 11:15:48 well if they appear earlier they would be a decent threat with confuse+invis and vamp attack 11:16:59 I don't think I've ever been confused by a vampire, their HD is so low 11:19:42 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:29 @??vampire 11:20:29 vampire (05V) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-46 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 7, 1505(vampiric) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 212 | Sp: vampire summon, confuse, invisibility. 11:20:31 @??orc wizard 11:20:32 orc wizard (06o) | Speed: 10 | HD: 3 | Health: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Damage: 5 | Flags: spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 35 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility, magic dart (3d4) / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility. 11:21:24 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:13 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:59 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:25 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:24:49 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 11:25:21 there's a vampiric draining spell now, they could have that too 11:26:48 @??vampire spells:vampiric_draining 11:26:49 vampire (05V) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-46 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 7, 1505(vampiric) | Flags: 07undead, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 212 | Sp: vampiric draining. 11:27:05 what sort of damage would it do? anything comparable to their melee? 11:30:59 probably you want it to do more damage if they're more damaged 11:34:36 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:40:39 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:24 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:41 Interruptable waiting with . or s (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4893) by evilmike 11:55:10 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:28 twelve just wrote an awesome reply to the trolling thread, have a look, it is really funny+ 12:02:41 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:47 excellent use of caps lock, I have to say 12:04:37 he composed a good text as well 12:08:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:06 I don't know why I even bothered responding seriously to that thread 12:15:11 sorry for feeding the troll 12:15:21 40 patents 12:16:08 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:29 it was a good post anyway :P 12:20:35 but yeah, probably best to just leave the thread alone 12:22:28 the 40 patents is true 12:22:47 edlothiol: I was the first to reply 12:22:51 * dpeg scolds dpeg. 12:22:58 delete the thread if you'd like 12:23:36 blueDave: "fire someone" from an opensource freeware project :) 12:24:06 revoke commit rights, I presume 12:25:41 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:36 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:47 Mm, much excitement on the forums these days, it appears 12:31:47 greensnark: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:31:54 It is quite amusing 12:31:57 !messages 12:31:57 (1/2) |amethyst said (1w 5d 15h 11m 43s ago): I made a pull request for dcss_henzell, to fix some of the internal links in learndb.html 12:32:01 !messages 12:32:01 (1/1) ionfrigate said (4d 4h 25m 31s ago): Sequell is confused about this ascension - http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/IonFrigate/morgue-IonFrigate-20111106-204414.txt - the server went down during this game. CAO is reporting it, but Sequell knows of it by score (try !lg * won min=xl to see). Hope this isn't too bothersome 12:32:04 greensnark: it is, it is 12:32:15 !lg * won min=xl 12:32:15 5891. the Acrobat (L0 ), worshipper of Lugonu, escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2011-11-06, with 8817293 points after 191699 turns and 10:48:16. 12:32:19 Ugh 12:32:53 I need to make Sequell reload its db faster 12:33:00 Waiting six hours for a db rebuild gets old 12:42:37 -!- Guest32593 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:47 -!- Guest32593 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:25 galehar spoiled the fun already. These French have no humour! :) 12:57:01 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:22 They have good bread, though 12:57:35 Which more than compensates for any lack of humour 12:57:53 Also wine. 12:57:58 That too 12:58:15 greensnark: for a German, they don't even have good bread :) 12:58:20 Wine, yes 12:58:33 Germans obviously have very exacting standards in that department :P 12:58:48 I drank some bread yesterday... 12:59:06 yeah, considering that even German bread is not the best you can find 13:00:09 Is Swiss bread better? :P 13:00:29 yes :) 13:00:50 no! 13:01:05 the Swiss also sell a lot of the white fluffy stuff as "bread". 13:01:20 yeah, we call it "toast" 13:01:27 Swiss Mountain Dwarves forge the best bread 13:01:34 But they are a dying species 13:01:36 that's not for consumation before being burned in atoaster 13:03:16 there are over 200 types of bread available in switzerland, if you get one that you don't like, try another :) 13:03:31 Hey, I just got Khufu to tomb himself! Right after uttering "into the Nile with you" <3 13:03:32 Is there a master list 13:03:48 Khufu is one of those uniques that I've never actually killed 13:03:54 Mind you, I've only met him in one or two games 13:04:05 And flight seemed far better than tangling with his bodyguard 13:04:23 Doesn't he have that greater mummy band? 13:04:36 yeah 13:04:56 the easiest way to deal with him is to lure a silent spectre over, you can usually find them if you wait long enough 13:05:03 Oh 13:05:22 I'm not a big fan of that tactic, but it's the easiest one 13:05:35 Yes, that does seem a little cheesy :) 13:05:49 also works for the liches behind glass vault 13:06:39 Need better monster AI to handle silence 13:07:23 For instance, if a hostile lich sees a silent spectre approaching, it should summon stuff to take out the spectre :P 13:07:31 We need more monster infighting 13:07:44 That would be interesting. Right now I feel that silent spectres work better as tartarus enemies, or vault monsters 13:07:55 +1 to monster infighting 13:08:04 tartarus works because nothing there (except for rare liches) is silencable 13:08:12 i tried to figure out how to do that a couple years ago and only got monsters to dance around eachother 13:08:30 Well, the monster AI code has been a dreadful ball of spaghetti for a long time 13:08:35 I don't know if that's been improved 13:09:21 Haha, there's even a thread complaining about Ke -> Te 13:09:30 I like the angsty forum threads :) 13:09:41 greensnark: it's been improved http://pastebin.com/QNQU1JrT 13:09:59 (I dug up the source code to crawl 2.4 or around that) 13:11:04 Oh, looking at <=3.x code is cheating :P 13:12:00 Damn, you made me look at it :( 13:12:11 'worse poison', 'worser poison', 'worsest poison' <3 13:12:16 haha yeah 13:12:35 players are at the mercy of the developers with attitude, don't you think being "angsty" is a natural reaction to that? :) 13:13:01 bhaak: Oh, the angst is amusing :) 13:13:27 I'm glad I'm no longer in the thick of things: being at a distance makes these things funnier than they would be otherwise :) 13:13:54 That long thread with people yelling at dpeg was sad, though 13:14:16 evilmike: that has some pretty good comments in it 13:14:32 "/* I can't be bothered writing an intelligent function, so I'll make it ugly: */" 13:14:37 :D 13:14:42 greensnark: dpeg gets involved too much. developers shouldn't go to forums. we already told him that but of course, he _doesn't_ listen 13:15:12 pretty much the whole source 2.x source is like that 13:15:16 heh 13:15:36 also I think it's 2.7.2, at least the zip file indicates that. The readme says 2.2 though 13:16:32 It's when reading this old code that you have to spend a respectful minute contemplating the nerve of the people who worked on 4.0 13:17:18 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:18 s/$/ instead of starting from scratch/ 13:17:49 The use of | for logical or is more widespread than I remembered in 3.0 code 13:18:19 But not & for logical and. I must protest this discrimination against ^ 13:18:22 otoh, i've yet to see a successful "starting from scratch" with nethack. there are so many failed attempts :) 13:18:22 Er, & 13:18:38 What I like most about the old source code is the weird commented out stuff 13:19:18 eg the god Lugafu, which is mentioned in comment in the 3.0 source in abyss.cc (dunno why it's there) 13:19:40 in the 2.7 source I have Lugafu is actually a real god. Appears to be an old version of trog 13:20:06 might that be that | works like logical OR whereas & never works like logical AND. looks like somebody had some insight into weird C compiler manual performance optimizations? 13:20:39 s/never/unreliably 13:20:49 bhaak: well, | and & don't short-circuit, and don't work like || and && in terms of return value unless you're sure you're only feeding them 0 and 1 13:22:03 perhaps it's a crazy precedence thing 13:22:23 "a && b | c" parenthesizes as "a && (b|c)" 13:22:38 whereas "a && b || c" parenthesizes as "(a && b) || c" 13:22:57 and "a & b | c" parenthesizes as "(a & b) | c" 13:23:07 but (a | b) should always give the same truthness like (a || b) 13:23:09 although I don't know why you'd do that unless you were golfing 13:23:21 bhaak: oh, I see what you mean 13:23:33 (bool)(a|b) == (bool)(a||b) 13:23:36 if neither a nor b have side effects 13:24:40 but i forgot about the short-circuit, that might give you nasty effects if that had been considered when the code was written and you just replace it with || 13:30:55 normally it's quite easy to check if code is side-effecting 13:31:06 unless it contains a function call or overloaded operator 13:31:16 (I just remembered C++, where pretty much any code can have any effect) 13:32:22 -!- ais523 is now known as ais523\unfoog 13:40:06 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:51 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:29 -!- stenno has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:38 hi rawrmage 13:45:45 hi stenno...? 13:46:13 Oh right... 13:46:19 Animate dead isn't in the boo kanymore <.< 13:47:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:47:46 -!- stenno has left ##crawl-dev 13:50:25 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:34 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:58 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:59 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit [] 14:07:38 -!- ais523\unfoog has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:43 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:46 -!- due has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:53 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:06 -!- blueDave has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:30 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:54 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:54 -!- Wop has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:03 -!- blueDave has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:49 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:05 -!- Wop has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:26 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:15 03MarvinPA * r9331e5b8a8e7 10/crawl-ref/ (7 files in 3 dirs): Change always_confirm_butcher to allow butchering the top corpse of a stack with one keypress 14:56:24 -!- ixtli has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:25 03MarvinPA * r9c56434e7185 10/crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt: Fix some typos in options_guide.txt 14:56:26 03MarvinPA * rf58230afd15f 10/crawl-ref/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Split automatic eating of chunks while travelling into a separate option from easy_eat_chunks 14:56:26 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:58 MarvinPA: good stuff! 15:01:47 :) 15:09:35 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:26:21 morning 15:26:24 egad 15:26:28 Hi due! 15:26:44 dpeg: What do you think of silver stars having a silver halo that is normal halo+Zinniness? 15:31:34 due: aren't silver stars basically orbs of fire with unresistable attacks? 15:31:40 no 15:32:04 well, potentially they are, I'm not sure how kilobyte set up their mechanism 15:32:19 due: what would it mean to a player? (good god, evil god/actions, other god)? 15:33:05 dpeg: I'm not too sure yet on actual effect; I don't want it to act as a debuff, because that would weaken the star's spell attacks 15:34:33 dpeg: the recite zin corona effect is: normal corona, except sticky flame level damage to some stuff zin hates, and it's light damage (vampires take 2x) 15:35:01 something like that could be reasonable, and having both do the same thing is good. maybe tweak the damage down though 15:35:18 yeah 15:35:28 light damage works sanely 15:35:35 I'll also decrease the size of its halo 15:36:47 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:04 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:08 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:07 -!- DrPraetor has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:27 Do I have any disagreement on my suggestion for Ely piety? 15:42:40 what is it? 15:44:08 Evenings! 15:45:50 mornings! 15:48:36 * dtsund can't tell if blueDave was serious or trolling 15:48:57 where? 15:49:25 Tavern. 15:49:52 Thread was already locked, no need for further action or anything. 15:50:33 DrPraetor: I'm about to leave for the evening but there was definitely a lot of disagreement 15:51:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:20 like, we just changed ely piety, and it might need some tweaking but we aren't convinced there is any reason to tear everything up and start again 15:51:27 My suggestion, which I expected to cause a lot of disagreement and for good reason, was that you should get Ely piety by making peace with *weak* monsters, not strong ones. 15:52:12 you do 15:52:28 Thematically, I think it makes sense, but I'm not convinced that makes sense from a gameplay perspective. 15:52:37 elliptic: Do I have the formula wrong? 15:52:37 define weak. 15:52:45 you get more piety for making peace with stronger monsters, but it is also likely that you'll need to spend piety using greater healing on them 15:52:47 Comparatively weak or absolutely weak/ 15:52:48 You get more piety from stronger monsters and less from weaker ones. 15:53:22 What elliptic said is basically my reaction: you have to spend more piety on stronger monsters, so why give incentive not to bother? 15:53:46 giving more piety for weaker monsters means that a vault with 20 rats (these exist) or simply a green rat pack in lair is a gold mine of free piety 15:54:24 Well, my thought is that stronger monsters can *kill you*. Makhlebites are *happy* to burn piety to have a summoned thing kill a hydra and only get half XP. 15:54:40 Yes, but hydras are fucking deadly. 15:54:42 elliptic: The game is full of random gold mines. Why is random gold mines for Ely worshippers more of a problem than random gold mines for anyone else? 15:54:43 and elyvilonites are happy to burn piety with greater healing to pacify rupert 15:54:45 what's the problem 15:55:02 DrPraetor: Because it introduces a luck factor. 15:55:05