00:02:41 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:03:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1863-g87f38c0 (32) 00:06:13 03due * r7680a4159ee9 10/crawl-ref/source/ (clua.cc dat/dlua/tags.lua util/gen_luatags.py): Solve minor tag name issue for Lua marker compatibility. 00:06:23 03due * rf1787c946f1c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/dlua/lm_fog.lua: Update fog machine compatibility to use tags library. 00:08:00 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:11:02 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:22 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:17:10 ??spiders nest 00:17:11 spiders nest[1/3]: A new timed portal vault in 0.7! Insect-themed, and may join the Shoals/Swamp/Snake lottery one day. https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:spider Enjoy the poison. And the ghost moths. And the poison. 00:18:46 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1865-gf1787c9 00:24:15 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:40 due: why not add it to the Makefile? 00:42:41 -!- Guest26296 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:39 -!- Twilight has joined ##crawl-dev 00:44:05 -!- Twilight is now known as Guest32593 01:00:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:02 SamB: because not everyone has python? 01:14:20 SamB: I mean, I imagine a lot of people would, but not everyone does 01:14:21 I suppose that's true 01:15:11 did you add a note about it to the header? 01:15:20 Header of tags.lua? 01:15:27 No, probably should have "AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED" somewhere. 01:15:40 I actually meant the .h file 01:15:45 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:15:47 but, that's also a good idea 01:23:11 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:29 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:40:09 -!- Guest44250 is now known as jarpiain 01:47:20 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:37 -!- FaMott has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:25 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41:05 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:45:57 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:54 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:16 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:18 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:48 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:06 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:45:11 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:49:45 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:55:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:12 -!- the_glow has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:05 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:09:14 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:17 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:38 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:33 due: to be AUTOMATICALLY GENERATED, it should be actually automatically generated... 04:41:34 kilobyte: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:42:08 due: let's put it into the Makefile rather than put generated files into version control 04:48:19 due: uhm... there's no python on most platforms Crawl runs on 04:49:06 needed: wingless tormentor (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4885) by KiloByte 04:50:39 ##crawl people couldn't agree on whether the old tile had wings anyway :P 04:53:54 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:00 kilobyte: Hence why it's nto in the makefile. 04:55:23 kilobyte: I'd like to convert it to perl but I don't know if that's as prevalent. 04:55:43 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:56:13 what platforms don't have python but do have perl? 04:56:16 msys, MacOS and ancient unices all have it 04:56:20 bhaak: Well, ther eis that problem. 04:56:27 bhaak: rather, "what platforms do have python?" 04:56:27 Doesn't msys have Python too? 04:56:43 Anyway, if someone would convert it to perl that would be nice. 04:57:00 bhaak: Ubuntu has, that's the only one with guaranteed Python. On others like Debian or Red Hat you can install it easily. 04:57:08 on Windows, not so much 04:57:34 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 04:57:41 ancient unices? did someone inject nethack devteamness into your brains? 04:58:16 meh 04:58:21 on Debian it's not in the default install but is pulled if you select the "desktop environment" task 04:58:33 It solves the issue for now. 04:58:38 ubuntu otoh doesn't have a c/c++ compiler preinstalled 04:58:56 And we store the level compiler pre-generated in VCS. 04:59:21 (always akiller when you update vault syntax!) 05:00:07 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1865-gf1787c9 05:01:42 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:47 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:01 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:08:48 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:57 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:39 due: yeah, that's a problem but installing extra _programs_ is a pain on msys and Mac 05:12:11 homebrew and/or macports don't help? 05:12:38 msys, well, if you do windows, you know you are in for a world of pain programming ... 05:12:55 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:31 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:15:38 anyway 05:15:38 generated is fine for now; it's not like the world will collappse 05:15:38 you only need to re-generate it when you touch tag-version.h and want to use them in Lua -- or you're bumping the major version 05:16:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:49 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 05:17:49 beh, all that talk for half a page of code 05:19:56 mighty thanks for exposing save version to Lua, by the way 05:20:17 03kilobyte * r64d694602d3a 10/crawl-ref/ (5 files in 4 dirs): Autogenerate dat/dlua/tags.lua 05:21:21 I guess it'd be nice to push rltiles/*.txt through cpp too 05:21:23 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:21:23 :) 05:21:23 what did you end up doing? 05:22:04 kilobyte: danke for the conversion! 05:22:19 hello all. a question: i made a new account on CDO yesterday and played a game on it, then tried to reg the same acc name on CAO so i can switch servers depending on lag, and only then realised the name is already reg'd on CAO. is there a way i can rename the CDO account or otherwise dissociate the two accounts? thanks 05:22:25 I just did a minor change to util/gen-mst.pl to adapt it for the tags 05:22:36 kilobyte: nice! 05:22:53 the_glow: The servers are not interlinked like that. 05:23:09 the_glow: they're not connected in any way other than the bots spamming ##crawl 05:23:41 due: yeah, i realise that, it just irks me that i would only be able to play on CDO under that name (and that the account's webpage will aggregate games on CDO by me and on CAO by not-me) 05:23:53 the_glow: You could just register a new account on CDO? 05:23:58 of course... so just make a new name 05:24:15 due: yeah i could, i just wanted keep the win i have on the new account :P 05:24:28 then ask napkin to rename it? :) 05:24:34 You can !link them togehter bot-wisse. 05:24:51 due: that was basically what i was asking if it was possible to do, heh 05:24:53 which would aggregate the games by not-you 05:24:58 what's up? 05:25:17 Napkin: see my lengthy diatribe above. is there a way of renaming CDO accounts? 05:25:27 the bots don't care about server accounts other than the name so bothering Napkin is useless here 05:27:39 kilobyte: im not sure i follow. all i want is to have a username consistent on CAO and CDO with the stats aggregated on same webpage. i dont see how the bots factor into that 05:27:39 am i missing something? i suppose i probably am 05:28:07 You could set up a new account on CDO with a different name, and !nick that to you? 05:28:42 jle: yeah, sure i could, its just that ive won a game already on the new account so thought id ask if it was possible to rename it, rather than discarding that win and starting over 05:28:48 jle: that will include the stats of the other CAO player 05:29:07 the_glow: could you say what's the name? 05:29:10 Ah, I see. 05:29:20 kilobyte: yeah its afterglow. sorry, i should have said 05:29:30 !lg afterglow src=cao 05:29:30 No games for afterglow (src=cao). 05:29:39 yep. they've never played a game, whoever they are 05:30:09 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:30:09 they have an active game saved from mid-2010 05:30:20 !whereis afterglow 05:30:21 Afterglow the Chiller (L1 DEIE) last saved on D:1 on 2010-06-07 after 0 turns. 05:30:35 it's about DGL accounts, huh? 05:31:19 modifying stats is not possible 05:31:30 least work: ask rax to nuke the account 05:31:37 im not requesting that stats be modified :( 05:31:53 Nuking accounts is actually harder than you think 05:31:55 kilobyte: yeah thats an idea i suppose, but to be fair, whoever is afterglow on CAO took the name first 05:32:14 hi rax! 05:32:16 hey, moin rax :) 05:33:14 rax: change the password? It's not someone who's ever going to come back. 05:33:27 at least on a game I've played and developed for for >10 years, there was ~10k new junk accounts per month 05:33:35 which did nothing but block names 05:37:08 Are we sure this user is never coming back? 05:39:06 not 100% but from my experience 99.999% sure 05:39:15 one started game, 0 turns 05:40:02 depends on your policy and how much the_glow wants to have the name he already has a win on CDO under 05:41:04 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:42:18 my phone net is too terrible to converse on this, I keep getting dropped 05:42:28 kilobyte: its not that i want the name, its that id prefer not to have to abandon the win, thats all :) 05:42:42 why would you have to abandon the win? 05:43:13 rax: i tend to hop between CAO and CDO depending on which lags less at any given time, and i like having the stats on both servers aggregated on a single webpage 05:43:41 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:01 the_glow: stupid question: hve you tried logging in with your password there? 05:45:50 due: i tried just now and apparently this person's pw differs from mine :( 05:47:13 I have the weirdest deja vu about this! 05:47:49 -!- st__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:24 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:38 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:09:13 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:23 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:49 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:06 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:49:56 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:06 given how the discussion petered out, can i take it that there is nothing to be done re. my account headache? to be clear, i am not agitating that anyone actually do anything, id just like to be sure it cant be remedied before i discard the account 07:00:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:41 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:03 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:01 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:31 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:38 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:20 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:26 Morning 07:28:21 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:14 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:31:47 petzl the Sorcerer (L27 MuFE) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed on turn 175671. (Dis:7) 07:33:59 !lm petzl type=crash -log 07:34:00 2. petzl, XL27 MuFE, T:175671 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/petzl/crash-petzl-20111111-133147.txt 07:34:11 03kilobyte * rcbd4e215c586 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc monster.cc player.cc player.h): Unify a bit player vs monster handling of rPois. 07:34:11 03kilobyte * rd49db285d89b 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Actually create dat/dlua/tags.lua 07:34:11 03kilobyte * r4d09485f26cc 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: Add a warning when you'd toxic radiance a friend. 07:34:21 03kilobyte * r54a256a0796b 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Don't warn the player when reading an unknown scroll of vorpalize. 07:34:22 03kilobyte * r1fb1ccd005d9 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: When affixing chaos, make Xom laugh faster. 07:34:22 03kilobyte * r5d27663bc844 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Don't waste cancelled known scrolls of vorpalize weapon. 07:34:54 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:50 kilobyte, have I previously asked you as to your opinion as precisely to what degree you would like to see combat symmetry go between monsters and players? 07:36:49 I'd say, the more the better -- but every step upsets balance which takes time to test and adjust 07:37:59 !seen sorear 07:38:00 I last saw sorear at Fri Aug 26 04:23:13 2011 UTC (11w 9h 14m 47s ago) parting ##crawl with message chanpart. 07:40:24 There's an upcoming game development club -style thing for young people in Oulu, that the city is supporting financially, and I today chatted a bit with the coordinator. We could get some testing and perhaps even content production done with them, the coordinator was interested and I'd be up for representing DCSS there. 07:42:30 free moolah for Crawl development? Me wants! 07:42:31 Keskitalo: That's awesome- 07:42:40 Oulu is... 07:42:58 Gah why did we have to be so colonial and rename all your cities? 07:43:07 Ah, we won't be getting any money :) 07:43:52 ghallberg: Yeah, it's pretty cool. 07:44:11 Uleĺborg. 07:44:15 Ah right. 07:44:42 It's a youth welfare or youth work project or something like that (had to look up in a dictionary). 07:45:10 elliptic: Spines and hooks, tormentors, perhaps they should cling ;) 07:45:36 and be hedgehogs! 07:46:05 (porcupines don't work yet, should be fixed) 07:46:30 in what manner? they don't do damage on-hit, or ? 07:46:49 spines mutation works, so porcupines shouldn't be difficult, right? 07:47:04 G-Flex: they work for the player, not for monsters 07:47:04 G-Flex, well, spiny monsters won't be terribly difficult 07:47:17 kilobyte: I know but I'd think the code would be roughly the same 07:47:18 but that has nothing to do with the spine mutation working..although some of the code will be similar :P 07:47:20 monster and player code has nothing in common 07:47:28 oh 07:47:29 Just not much, yeah. 07:47:31 but let's think if someone is currently dealing with this... 07:47:36 :P 07:47:39 :) 07:48:01 whoo I see a fire storm nerf <3 07:48:06 oh no I see a fire strom buff 07:48:17 Keskitalo: a tiny tiny one 07:48:32 tiny buff or tiny nerf 07:48:37 yeah, overall that sounds like the spell is a bit more interesting now 07:48:46 kilobyte, I'm actually getting pretty satisfied with the current condition, since improving symmetry will occur separate of this actual UCC branch, I'm much nearer to completion than I thought I was. 07:48:48 what happened to it? 07:49:02 lower duration of clouds and vortices, harder-hitting vortices 07:49:08 oh right 07:49:09 we have Tornado still being Summon Wraiths and Firestorm still as 0.6 Haunt... 07:49:19 cloud duration did seem a bit high, was it higher than for ice storm? 07:49:57 yeah, now they're the same according to the commit message 07:50:40 so pretty short then 07:51:36 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:55:19 ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4886) by petzl 07:57:29 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 08:00:03 firestorm clouds were likely to do several thousands of damage if there's ten or so monsters in range 08:00:22 fire clouds do that much damage? 08:11:11 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:02 -!- chrisoelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:11 03kilobyte * r6829e994b8ea 10/crawl-ref/source/ (15 files in 4 dirs): s/crystal plate/\1 armour/ to stave off elliptic's culinary fears. 08:38:17 03kilobyte * r148a168c4953 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: Identify an item class upon seeing a pre-identified item of that type. 08:38:18 03kilobyte * r82f492f136af 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (UNUSED/monsters/tormentor.png dc-mon/demons/tormentor.png): Denzi's tile for flightless tormentors. 08:39:58 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:41:15 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:54 -!- Amonchakad has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:14 kilobyte: thanks for addressing my fears! 08:48:56 probably used the wrong word, but meh :p 08:49:27 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:10 03kilobyte * r58dfc7ab1e6f 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Give more info in a common assert failure. 08:52:24 i see that HEAD in main menu shows 'git describe' output as version. how exactly is that achieved? i'd like to do a similar hook for another project 08:52:47 do you use some sort of commit hook? 08:53:43 do you have tags for some prior versions? 08:53:50 yes 08:54:09 does 'git describe' work on the command line? 08:54:10 the issue is just running describe and displaying it somewhere 08:54:14 yep 08:55:29 we thought about using local hooks into git that write a kind of VERSION file before pushing, but that would require new contributors to use modified configs where we want to keep the entry overhead low 08:55:46 so some server-side (we host on github) approach would be awesome 08:56:19 echo '#define VERSION "'`git describe`'"' >version.h 09:00:30 alright, guess we'll just do that for now, thanks! :) 09:05:31 -!- Amonchakad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:27:27 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:50 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:11 03dolorous * r7a3302a78c9a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/miscname.txt effects.cc): Move hell effect messages into the miscellaneous database. 09:50:18 03dolorous * rb5c24db79871 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player-stats.cc player.cc): Don't use mprf() when mpr() will do. 09:57:49 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:23 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:12:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:12:36 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:12 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:30 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:11 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:04:11 03MarvinPA * rb159686af2dc 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-miscast.cc: Correctly track the source of paralysis for miscasts 11:13:34 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:19 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:37 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:22 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:34 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:10 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:15 03dolorous * r7743172a2437 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Add spacing fix. 11:40:25 03dolorous * r94fc6b729c25 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-flags.h mutation-data.h): Tweak unbreathing mutation description. 11:48:15 03MarvinPA * r29e48f8db5a4 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Don't let tentacles increase the damage of base unarmed and aux punches (they still provide the high-damage "squeeze" aux) 11:48:25 03MarvinPA * r07f21c91862c 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-cast.cc spl-damage.cc spl-damage.h spl-data.h): Make Olgreb's Toxic Radiance depend on power for levels of poison inflicted 11:50:42 <|amethyst> can someone copy a save for me? 11:51:11 <|amethyst> gslarmour was kind enough to make a save backup of his game with TR, and I wanted to take a look at how it fares in non-wizmode 11:51:23 <|amethyst> http://crawl.develz.org/saves/dumps/totalg33k-87f38c0-111111-1745.tar.bz2 11:53:09 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:41 <|amethyst> oh, dear, it's later than I thought and I've got to travel in an hour or two... email it to me at neil@s-z.org and I'll look at it in a few days when I return 11:53:53 oh heh 11:54:04 was just dropboxing it for you, will email it instead then :) 11:54:22 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:36 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: thanks... email is easier for me than dropbox anyway, since I don't have the client on this machine 11:55:01 it's just a public download link, i don't think you need the client to grab it 11:55:07 <|amethyst> oh 11:55:45 <|amethyst> I guess it's just private stuff that requires the client or something? I distinctly remember having to install it when a collaborator wanted to use it to share a manuscript draft 11:55:54 hmm, possibly, yeah 11:56:04 <|amethyst> but maybe I just didn't read the page or docs closely enough 11:56:23 <|amethyst> anyway, thanks. ttyl 11:56:41 np, bye :) 11:58:07 petzl the Sorcerer (L27 MuFE) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed on turn 186681. (Geh:7) 11:59:48 evening! 12:00:01 heya Napkin 12:00:45 ahhh.. weekend! :D 12:04:33 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:48 Napkin, :( not here for another like 4 hours :P 12:07:01 ;-P 12:07:07 be strong! 12:09:01 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:37 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:14:49 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:43 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:02 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:15 03dolorous * r06c2b9242f50 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Add formatting fix. 12:37:43 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:33 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:28 -!- Guest32593 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:44 -!- Guest32593 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:12 03MarvinPA * rd390da27add7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Remove Metabolic Englaciation 12:44:13 03MarvinPA * r272ae451d5d7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (book-data.h spl-data.h): Change Control Undead to level 4 pure Necromancy, Dispel Undead to level 5, rearrange book contents 12:44:13 03MarvinPA * r219bfe17c0a3 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Make Confusing Touch succeed less often 12:48:24 man, I want me one of these terminals: http://spacetrawler.com/2011/11/08/spacetrawler-184/ 12:48:42 of course, I'd use a much smaller fontsize ;-P 12:49:19 but I'm pretty sure that's not meant to be to scale in the first place 12:55:44 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:06:13 03dolorous * rf98489e3276a 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Add minor cosmetic fixes. 13:09:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:13 03MarvinPA * r68027b2a2988 10/crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc: Give GDA an extra point of AC 13:31:30 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 13:32:13 03kilobyte * r060b7c65249a 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/entry/small.des: Don't trap people in evilmike_entry_crescent. 13:32:13 03kilobyte * rbb81648a5f5d 10/crawl-ref/.gitignore: Ignore generated files based on full path. 13:32:13 03kilobyte * re6ed42f4c8cf 10/crawl-ref/source/ (initfile.cc message.cc message.h mon-speak.cc shout.cc): Let CHANNEL: prefixes use all types in both current uses. 13:32:24 03kilobyte * r27995ac23436 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/database/miscname.txt effects.cc): Don't use different db sections for hell effect messages. 13:43:57 Napkin: anwesend? 13:44:33 jo, what's up? 13:46:14 03elliptic * r8a51bb164e61 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Fix a comment. 13:53:01 Napkin: forgive me for bugging you about this again, but discussion kind of tailed off last time re. my account problem from earlier. am i right to assume theres nothing can be done? would just like a final answer before i discard the account for a new one 13:53:36 what exactly is it that you want? 13:54:26 Napkin: i was asking if an account could be renamed on CDO (i made a new account on CDO without realising someone already had the name on CAO, so the webpage aggregates his games and mine - if renaming the CDO account is possible i assume that would fix this) 13:55:51 renaming your account (on CDO or CAO) will not change the "webpage", which I assume you mean the scoring stats? 13:56:30 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Holy shit, this is going to be awesome.] 13:56:43 Napkin: yes, thats what i meant (http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/afterglow.html - 'afterglow' on CDO is me, 'afterglow' on CAO is not) 13:57:05 if its not possible then thats fair enough and ill make a new account. id just like to know one way or the other :) 13:57:20 of course, renaming an account is possible 13:57:30 but, as i said, that doesn't change score website 13:57:59 really? oh. i guess theres nothing to be done about it then 13:58:00 i had the impression that the idea was to delete the inactive account "afterglow" on CAO.. no? 13:58:41 Napkin: there was some discussion with rax about it, but it came to nothing as we cant be entirely sure the account has been abandoned for good 13:59:03 what about renaming the CAO account? I don't know how hard that would be 13:59:15 well, you know, the scores are written in textfiles and those are parsed and saved in a sql database, which then in return is used to create the score website 14:00:10 elliptic, could you do your magic trick to check henzell/sequell for games? 14:00:15 elliptic: that could work, but im not sure how amenable to that people would be 14:00:42 Napkin: i see, i didnt realise the stats page was generated in that way. thanks for enlightening me 14:00:54 napkin: what do you mean? it looks from the scoring website that afterglow never completed a game 14:00:59 and just has one in progress 14:01:28 it never actually made it into the sql database; games in progress are listed on the scoring website by looking at the .where file 14:01:35 so.. of course, everything is possible, but it'll be crazy work - considering also the feeding to the sql db is complicated 14:01:53 !lm afterglow 14:01:53 47. [2011-11-10] afterglow the Sorcerer (L26 VpVM) killed Edmund on turn 117783. (D:5) 14:01:56 !lm afterglow 1 14:01:56 1. [2011-11-10] afterglow the Sneak (L6 VpVM) entered the Ecumenical Temple on turn 6588. (D:6) 14:02:25 Napkin: if its going to be troublesome, ill make a new account. needless to say i already appreciate the work you do in providing me with a server to play on 14:03:14 i think you need to tell it to use CAO as source only, elliptic 14:03:17 somehow 14:03:24 hence i said "magic" ;) 14:03:30 !lm afterglow src=cao 14:03:30 No milestones for afterglow (src=cao). 14:03:33 !lg afterglow src=cao 14:03:34 No games for afterglow (src=cao). 14:03:51 he has a DEIE saved on turn 1, from june 2010 :( 14:04:09 thinking really hard about his next move 14:05:40 the_glow: if you just want the scoring page to not show that DEIE, I *think* it would be sufficient to get someone to delete http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Afterglow/Afterglow.where 14:05:54 rax - i think something went wrong with the way you started the scoring scripts. looks to me as if they've been using 100% cpu for many days now already 14:06:25 elliptic: to be honest its mostly that i bounce between CAO and CDO depending on lag, and would just like to have the same acc name on both servers so that the stats are aggregated to the same webpage 14:06:55 as this guy has the afterglow name on CAO (and its my fault for reging afterglow on CDO without checking that, i realise) this isnt possible 14:07:04 yeah, well, you'd need the account to be deleted/renamed by r a x for that, and I can understand why she might be reluctant to do that 14:07:35 so probably best to just start a new account... at least you figured this out after only one game! 14:08:11 I wonder what percentage of accounts are those "connect one, look at the game, see there are no pretty pictures, press a few random keys, don't learn even how to die, QQ" 14:08:24 s/one/once/ 14:08:24 it's definitely a problem though 14:08:37 elliptic: yeah, i guess so. ah well. at least ill always have a 100% winrate account 14:09:03 assuming that guy never comes back and dies, at least 14:09:22 i'm about to delete his account 14:09:32 if the save i find is as old as you say 14:09:53 oh, ok! i didnt realise multiple people had the capacity to do that 14:11:00 kilobyte: yeah, this person spent 20 seconds with the game open and didn't take any turns 14:14:36 it'll take a while though.. a find is slow on CAO 14:16:03 elliptic: do you have an idea if last_chosen is going to be ever used? 14:16:15 03kilobyte * r7aed6baffc43 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Tiles for the dragonskin cloak. 14:16:20 Napkin: understood. im very grateful for your help 14:17:22 kilobyte: I don't know... it seems possibly useful for something at some point, but it really didn't work well for jiyva stat-focusing 14:17:54 probably it should just be removed, since adding it back in later wouldn't be hard of course 14:38:36 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:48:50 ok, found a 0.6 and a 0.5 save 14:51:02 you can have two saves going at once? i didnt know that 14:52:09 if he hasn't played since 0.6 and only has two games, he probably isn't all that interested in playing CAO now 14:52:10 hm, I wonder why the 0.6 save doesn't have where information 14:52:34 I guess he started a 0.6 game and then saved and then started a 0.5 game and then saved 14:52:42 -!- due has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:02 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:56 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 14:58:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:13 the_glow: is it Afterglow or afterglow? 14:59:37 kilobyte: Sonja's dagger of distortion getting autoinscribed seems to have meant that my distortion autoinscribe didn't get applied to it 14:59:37 Napkin: the account that's me is 'afterglow', all lowercase 15:00:30 napkin: the databases aren't case-sensitive about usernames usually 15:01:11 the old account on CAO registered as Afterglow though 15:04:47 i changed that too 15:04:52 let's see if that works 15:05:51 Does TSO give HP/MP on Undead/Demon kills still in trunk or is it just HP? 15:06:21 Only Makhleb was changed if I recall correctly. 15:06:34 kay 15:07:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:01 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:12 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:57 * SamB thinks it ought to be possible to annotate the level you're looking at on the X screen (assuming it's a permalevel), regardless of where you happen to be at the time 15:12:24 and it should be possible to remove annotations too 15:12:35 that feature i was missing a few times already 15:12:46 removing is a kind of annotating anyway 15:13:00 hey guys 15:13:02 I mean, the implementation of what I said would most naturally allow that at zero additional cost 15:13:04 quick question 15:13:05 * dpeg sheds a tear for Metabolic Englaciation. 15:13:15 sure 15:13:18 if I do NOT want to transfer a previous trunk save to the latest version 15:13:29 what do I input? 15:13:38 obviously not [T]ransfer 15:13:49 what have you tried? 15:13:59 but the last time I pressed 'n', it merely started the savegame 15:14:09 Napkin: ping when you got a moment, please 15:14:09 or is it asking, hmm, that no matter what, I'll be playing that savegame 15:14:23 so giving me the choice between playing it in a previous vers or the latest? 15:14:34 so I assume ;-) 15:14:36 ah yes 15:14:42 check ?V 15:14:46 silly logic fart from me 15:14:55 probably the message could be better 15:15:11 I mean, why make the user assume? 15:15:26 Napkin: do you know how to make the message better? 15:17:51 124 blog replies already -- they just keep coming! 15:18:48 kilobyte: "Python is not easily available on most platforms"? What? 15:19:37 I think you meant to write "Python is not trivially available in msys" ;-P 15:21:18 SamB: you can't merely install it... getting it actually work from a msys prompt isn't a matter of a single apt command 15:21:39 kilobyte: I think I know what you meant 15:21:54 but "most platforms" is a silly way to say Windows 15:22:04 "anything other than Ubuntu" 15:22:37 it's fairly trivial on most *nix distros, afaict 15:22:46 I mean, sometimes some stuff is broken 15:23:14 like how slackware leaves out the sqlite bindings from stdlib ... 15:23:38 not sure about Mac but unless things changed a lot you'd need to mess quite a bit to get a reasonable command line interface using non-Apple stuff 15:23:55 I thought python was preinstalled on OS X 15:24:45 I mean, it doesn't change the fact that rewriting in perl is an improvement for us, certainly 15:24:58 since that *is* trivially available in msys 15:25:14 or, well, at least mingw 15:29:04 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:33 hrm, can't get my hackintosh VM to even start :( 15:34:47 anyway, if there'd be a gain from having another language available, there is little reason to avoid dependencies 15:35:40 however, perl, ruby and python have similar capabilities so there's no reason to use something that requires special work 15:37:00 one of big python's downsides is that it's extremely fat... its authors refuse to make it modular since it should come "with batteries included" 15:39:15 I already admitted that the change was probably a good idea 15:39:17 (ok, for values of "extremely" being "a tiny sliver of java", but hey, even mono is slim in comparison) 15:39:33 yeah, I'm just wildly ranting and should shut up :p 15:39:49 mono is slimmer? 15:39:52 HOW?!? 15:40:06 .NET sure ain't! 15:40:09 kilobyte: your commits are so good, you can rant day in and day out :) 15:40:22 mono is like double python size on my comp 15:40:28 dpeg: I just thought it might save him time if agreed now 15:40:35 or well it's equal to both versions of pyython :P 15:41:02 write a map parser in mips assembly, if they don't have it tough 15:41:50 dpeg s/good/numerous/ 15:41:56 quantity not quality 15:42:09 BlastHardcheese: <3 <3 <3 15:44:00 BlastHardcheese: that would be insanely stupid for several reasons 15:44:12 pan lords: what about renaming them to "Gonzo the pandemonium lord"? 15:44:36 at least in obituaries and milestones 15:44:37 do we have Alice and Bob yet? 15:44:44 hunter thompson the pandemonium lord 15:44:59 kilobyte: some of them are good 15:45:08 SamB: these are not forbidden words so kind of we do 15:45:37 I was thinking of uniques, actually ;-P 15:46:21 they're always trying to send authenticate/encrypt stuff to eachother, you know? 15:47:56 uniques are implemented as web services? cool, where are the WSDLs? 15:48:40 hmm, is there some checkbox to request that putty ask pageant to load a key if necessary, rather than asking me for the passphrase every time? 15:55:35 ??tentacles 15:55:36 tentacle[1/1]: Congratulations, you've spotted the long appendage of a {kraken}. Not to be confused with {eldritch tentacle}. 15:56:12 Can non-octopodes get the tentacles mutation randomly, or just with Beastly Appendage? 15:56:17 03kilobyte * rd718b6d265d1 10/crawl-ref/source/ (ng-setup.cc player-stats.cc player.cc player.h tags.cc): Axe you.last_chosen. 15:56:18 03kilobyte * rd287862d0c83 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: Remove sanctuary if you use Toxic Radiance with either you or victims inside. 15:56:56 kilobyte: what was last_chosen? 15:57:15 last chosen stat at levelup 15:57:20 oh 15:57:25 what was the point of that ? 15:57:30 I guess not much 15:57:43 it wasn't used for anything currently; it used to be used for jiyva stat focusing a version or two ago 15:58:21 Keskitalo: the chance is 0, I don't think it's a DS mutation either 15:59:23 Keskitalo: if you have any reason to remove it from BA, don't think twice 16:05:01 Nope, not on the DS lsit. 16:06:13 Once they constrict, it'll be an interesting mutation. 16:08:17 03dolorous * r9f6b0c4b2426 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: Comment fix. 16:11:13 Global Notice] Hi all. We wish you a very verily merry merrily 11:11:11 11.11.11-11! Crank it up to eleven and here's to hoping the world will not end in 2012; as always, thanks for flying freenode air! 16:18:28 Keskitalo: yes! 16:19:26 Should consider adding to general and/or DS mutation lsit then. 16:20:15 03Keskitalo * r31ef48abc452 10/crawl-ref/source/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Tentacle hands for dolls from Pingas (#4687). 16:21:00 dpeg, ping :) 16:21:35 "Pingas" not "ping" :p 16:21:43 echo "A newer version (${POSSIBLE_GAME_HASH}) able to handle your save was found." 16:21:48 read -n 1 -s -p "[T]ransfer your save to this version?" REPLY 16:21:52 if test "$REPLY" = "t" -o "$REPLY" = "T" -o "$REPLY" = "y" 16:21:54 --- 16:22:14 03kilobyte * r09961c879bea 10/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc: Special-case "Foo the pandemonium lord" in milestones/obituaries. 16:22:24 03kilobyte * rde51ab0f2e7a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (hiscores.cc ouch.h): Revert removal of KILLED_BY_PETRIFICATION, old score files need that. 16:22:26 how could that message be make any easier to understand, SamB, Pacra? 16:22:59 Napkin: if it explicitly stated both choices 16:23:27 seriously? i'm supposed to add yes/no? :D 16:23:46 I meant, if it said what happens if you say no 16:23:54 shouldn't we encourage transferring anyway? playing old versions of trunk doesn't help test much 16:24:26 encourage != force 16:24:37 it's not forcing 16:24:37 well it's not forced, is it? 16:24:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:19 it's just not very clear from the message exactly what happens if you don't choose "[T]ransfer" 16:25:23 i just mean i don't see a need to explicitly state how to not transfer your save 16:25:52 it asks if you want to move your save to new version - i didn't imagine NOT transfering could leave room for different interpretations ;) 16:25:59 it does 16:26:02 it could mean "don't play" 16:26:13 oh.. come on 16:26:13 MarvinPA: if you see a potential new spell containing "metabolic" or "englaciation" in the title, tell us :) 16:26:13 SamB: I always assumed that it meant "don't play" 16:26:21 rofl 16:26:31 Dunno why... 16:26:34 see, told you! 16:26:35 dpeg: heh, will do :P 16:26:38 and you never tried "no"? 16:26:57 Napkin: I well, I thought I wouldn't get to play... 16:26:57 it could also mean "delete your save" 16:27:00 MarvinPA: mass slow would be useful, of course 16:27:08 dpeg: some sort of slow could have englaciation 16:27:10 so.. looks like just the right amount of encouragement then ;) 16:27:12 and making it Ice/something is not bad 16:27:13 ANd I never really had a reason not to transfer. 16:27:17 ogaz: +1 16:27:31 Napkin: yes, everything's okay with the prompt, imo 16:27:39 I was always like "why is this prompt here!? what else would I do"? 16:27:58 something like that might be a good hex, yeah 16:28:03 you'd for example like to finish your MD, ghallberg ;) 16:28:13 Napkin: Well yeah. 16:28:20 Napkin: MDs still work 16:28:30 you just can't start a new MD game 16:28:32 that's a reason to finally break save compat! :p 16:28:38 no it isn't 16:28:38 I think we should add "or continue in old version" 16:28:46 the only reason to not transfer really would be if there's some kind of crash in the most recent version, surely? 16:28:59 yeah 16:29:00 crash/major bug 16:29:02 I think so 16:29:20 What is wrong with Steam tonight? 16:29:23 by the time you find out about a major bug, it's probably too late, though ;-P 16:29:26 Getting 200 kb/s... 16:29:30 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: n8] 16:29:34 and if there is, it's a matter of /join ##crawl-dev and screaming loud enough 16:30:32 kilobyte: assuming it hasn't totally screwed up your save already! 16:35:20 Keskitalo: is there a reason for ../settings/dolls.txt to be under git? 16:36:43 Waking up from a nap and I see /sex/dolls.txt 16:36:46 what is wrong with me 16:37:43 !send Sombrero_Mott dolls 16:37:44 Sending dolls to Sombrero_Mott. 16:37:55 -!- Sombrero_Mott is now known as FaMott 16:38:34 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:38:38 well, you also woke with a sombrero on 16:38:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:19 Zannick, I actually have a sombrero 16:44:42 hmmm 16:44:42 due: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:44:45 !messages 16:44:46 (1/1) minqmay said (2h 39m 14s ago): thank you. i really needed to know the *natural* hair colour to draw this (NSFW): http://www.cowmuffins.net/stuff/crawl/duvessa_erotic_on_bed_hires.jpg 16:44:51 oh god 16:45:01 AHAHAHHAHAHAHA 16:45:19 kilobyte: I have no idea how that is supposed to function. I tried deleting it, and saving a doll in the game, quitting, trying again.. the file is still gone, but my doll settings are still there. 16:45:22 rofl 16:45:41 (Not actually NSFW) 16:45:55 So it doesn't look that it's even used 16:46:12 Also 16:46:18 Our statue tiles are now problematic 16:46:30 Keskitalo: did you glance at th escreenshot for the beastly appendage? 16:46:51 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/file_download.php?file_id=2449&type=bug 16:47:01 The fountains don't really match the statues -- but the elephant does. 16:47:59 How would duvessa and dowan have sex? 16:48:13 siblings 16:48:35 gently 16:48:43 let'snot go there, gah 16:49:03 ee 16:49:11 Oh 16:49:14 I thought they were lovers. 16:49:18 I always thought they were lovers :( 16:49:27 ... you obviously never read the escriptions? 16:49:29 ... 16:49:45 nobody reads the descriptions 16:50:55 s/ the.*// 16:51:19 :( I feel blind 16:51:37 due: Probably a material issue 16:51:40 elliptic: like with the manual, 99% don't read at all, and the others study it labouriously and point out comma mistakes 16:51:50 ran out of marble, had to use granite 16:52:53 Keskitalo: dolls.txt will be recreated in the current directory 16:53:03 I tend to look at monsters that may be resistant 16:53:15 but considering I've been playing EE the entire time, all I need to know is their speed 16:53:57 dpeg: so I'm thinking a bit about the details of how the free minotaur retaliation attacks should work 16:54:15 03dolorous * r36fd13d90786 10/crawl-ref/source/ (artefact.cc itemprop.cc): Add formatting fixes. 16:54:20 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:25 03dolorous * r5abb1b899393 10/crawl-ref/source/artefact.cc: Indicate resistances of artefact dragon armours other than gold ones. 16:54:31 dpeg: Phoenixes are mostly done! 16:54:38 kilobyte: Did my push last night fix the phoenix issues? 16:54:40 the description or the learndb entries :P 16:54:42 dpeg: first, should you be able to retaliate in this way against multiple attacks from the same monster in a turn? 16:54:52 kilobyte: It doesn't seem to have an effect if it's deleted or not, so it shouldn't be in the repo 16:54:53 (I'm thinking of hydras mainly) 16:55:01 should probably be generated in settings, though.. 16:55:09 not that it's human-readable :P 16:55:40 elyvilon wrath[1/1]: No effect unless you are worshipping evil. Otherwise, confusion, poison miscasts (0-1), and mass inventory weapon disenchantment. While in penance, Elyvilon will also occasionally block your attacks. This reduces your penance. 16:55:41 dpeg: second, should the free retaliation attacks check the monster's EV at all? 16:55:46 wait wrong chat 16:55:47 elliptic: Have we coinsidered differnet style of retaliation depending on stat? i.e., if your dex is highest, you do some nimble retaliation --- or your strenght, you just bash it really hard, etc. 16:55:49 * SamB begins to wonder why our items don't use :-based method calls in lua ... 16:57:08 due: well, the idea was that the retaliation is a horn-headbutt... not sure how many options there are there 16:57:11 All you'd get is int retaliations 16:57:17 :V 16:57:26 but on a more serious note 16:58:22 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:23 sticky flame wiki page might need rescuing 16:58:27 elliptic: for both, either way is fine 16:58:51 due: headbutt on successful dodges, to make minotaures more minotaury 16:59:36 elliptic: let's say no to 1 and no to 2 for a start. 16:59:44 dpeg: I have not eaten in a logn time :) 16:59:51 dpeg: okay, that was my inclination too (for both) :) 16:59:52 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110929064733]] 17:00:34 dpeg: also, I'm not very good at coming up with text... any suggestions for a message for a headbutt of this sort? 17:01:56 @??spirit 17:01:57 spirit (08p) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 4 | HD: 7 | Health: 38-68 | AC/EV: 3/19 | Flags: 08holy, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(37), 03poison, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 66 | Sp: blink away. 17:02:00 due: ASSERT(!place_at.origin()) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 650 failed. 17:02:05 kilobyte: hm 17:02:22 kilobyte: that /is/ strange 17:02:48 kilobyte: what did you do to get that? 17:03:29 dpeg: people objected to blessed toe being too silly :( 17:03:44 @??phoenix 17:03:45 phoenix (05b) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 12 | HD: 13 | Health: 91-131 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Damage: 1908(holy) | Flags: 08holy, fly | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1666. 17:03:52 elliptic: it should be something about "furious" 17:04:05 ./crawl -arena '50 phoenix v 10 pandemonium lord delay:0 t:99' 17:04:10 "You furiously retaliate!" 17:04:14 kilobyte: ohhhhhhh, arena 17:04:30 due: no problem, as long as none of them is a dev. If devs find it too silly, we'll talk, or play rock-paper-scissors. 17:04:44 :D 17:04:50 due: hard to try thousands of combinations by hand 17:04:51 dpeg: Well, I'm okay to convert it to a finger instead 17:05:01 * dpeg likes toes. 17:05:05 me too :) 17:05:08 should commandeer autorobin for stress tests 17:05:20 The cursed hand plays rock-paper-scissors with you! 17:05:21 dpeg: failing that, I've got dibs on Holy Prepuce 17:05:23 Fingers abound, toes are ... special. Let's hear it for the ungulates! 17:05:26 dpeg: It has a constricting attack. 17:05:34 female and alive ones, perhaps 17:05:53 due: we'd lose our family friendly rating! 17:06:02 dpeg: yes, but nobody would really /know/! 17:06:03 due: and don't tell me what the prepuce shoots :) 17:06:18 hah! no. 17:06:37 elliptic: is due's good enough? 17:07:25 good enough for now at least :) 17:07:39 so, I have this crazy idea 17:07:43 we store map=whatever, yes? 17:08:04 would it be so hard to store the vault-origin of a monster? that way we could do !lg vkiller=map name! 17:08:18 oh, sounds great 17:08:18 and we could see who has died to a vault that got chased by a monster out of the bounds of that vault. 17:08:20 kilobyte? 17:08:36 dpeg: asking about holy body parts or vkiller? 17:08:46 I think it's easily doable but I'm not sure whether props would be best or an actual monster attribute. 17:09:03 kilobyte: vkiller for now. I assume that your toes are as holy as mine. 17:09:32 MarvinPA: I'd like to add the Englaciation slow spell to the wiki. It should be ice/hex? 17:09:51 yeah, i think so 17:10:02 if you need a bird among holies, there's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booby 17:10:12 just remember to always place it in pairs! 17:10:37 What's a good, terse statement of what turn_is_over means? 17:11:45 dpeg: it'd be very rare for more than ~1000 monsters to be alive all throughout the dungeon 17:12:39 dpeg: we'd attach a string to every of them. malloc() is really wasteful for short ones, so it'd be a matter of ~32 bytes per monster 17:12:42 kilobyte: what does the number of monsters throughout the dungeon matter, though? 17:13:21 holy holy boobies? 17:13:22 32KB... that'd drop CAO and CDO into a dead swapping fest 17:14:08 I mean, I thought only the current map's monsters were really relevant 17:14:18 SamB: turn_is_over is set if the player did an action that takes some time 17:14:21 kilobyte: yes, I was worried about memory usage, that is why I asked you 17:15:37 there's an entry vault with >400 plants, Shoals can go plant-happy too, sometimes even parts of the Lair 17:16:00 but SamB's remark is spot on: any map but the current will be gzipped on the disk 17:18:11 hm 17:18:20 can we use a lookup table instead, then? 17:18:32 and plants could be specifically excluded 17:19:01 sure; but even without one it would take less than the code for a single std::map<> instantiation 17:19:38 bah std::map! 17:20:29 Okay, so more succinctly, encompass maps could be ignored 17:20:45 eh? 17:21:20 it's them that would be the most interesting 17:21:30 really? 17:21:42 what about _you_vault_list? 17:23:13 I suppose I'm failing to grasp if storing vault name per-monster is problematic -- the implication is that it would bloat sizes considerably enough to make CAO and CDO swap? 17:23:57 due: oh, btw, that thing about the maps in zotdef or sprint? I was hoping that even events in Bazaar or Abyss would still somehow be associated with the map chosen by the player for D:1 17:24:16 SamB: ahhh 17:24:37 not with whatever Bazaar the player might be in at the time 17:24:41 right 17:24:55 * due still intends to look at that! 17:25:07 (well, at least, not only ;-) 17:25:30 I wasn't sure if you'd done anything about that yet 17:25:46 but you mentioned map=, so that made me think of it 17:25:46 kilobyte: _you_vault_list seems to store all vault names depending on whether or not they have extra/!extra -- would it be more conceievable to just store an index into that instead? 17:26:11 yeah 17:28:27 Do shedu work in arena? 17:32:37 why do we still expose a you.exp_pool() function? 17:33:04 due: no crashes, it seems 17:33:24 Haunt - deep water targetable, but monster do not spawn. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4887) by Soyweiser 17:33:35 SamB: no reason I can think of 17:33:47 someone should probably remove it? 17:33:49 @??wraith 17:33:49 wraith (16W) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 21-45 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Damage: 1313(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(56), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 209. 17:33:52 hm 17:34:11 some of them are res_drown -- is that ever checked when placing monsters in deep water 17:34:52 they'd still end up underwater if they don't fly 17:34:57 * SamB wonders why it matters for something normally considered not to use the floor 17:35:12 theye're lev :) 17:35:22 this should not be 17:35:26 obviously the habitation checks is problematic 17:35:30 zombies walk under the water 17:35:50 ghosties would tend to float above it unless they specifically choose not to 17:35:53 I saw most of the haunt creatures fly over water. 17:35:53 yeah 17:36:05 Soyweiser: yeah, the initial placement is problematic 17:36:31 Yeah, I understand. Perhaps just let them drown? 17:36:53 A well, it is trivial 17:36:58 it would appear to fail mons_class_can_pass 17:37:23 or not 17:39:18 oh 17:39:22 find_newmons_square, BAH. 17:40:05 so summons won't place flying/lev creaturesa over water because it's looking for surrounded by feat_p[referred 17:40:47 I wonder if the same would apply for lava. Are there lavaswimming creatures? 17:40:58 salamander? 17:41:16 yes 17:41:58 kilobyte: that arena crash appears to be it finding the relevant corpse at 0,0 -- but it shouldn't unless it is actually there, at 0,0, so I don't understand :/ 17:45:02 Also one small thing that bothered me a little bit, kiku's wrath seems a bit underpowered. I don't know if it is changed in .10 but it would improve if he just took casts a few control undeads every once in a while. So you cannot simply wait his wrath out by filling the level as an undead player. 17:45:24 Soyweiser: Wrath changes forthcoming, eventually! 17:46:19 :D okey. It was just a minor thing. I know devs are busy. And everybody thinks they are a genius game designer :D 17:46:43 dpeg: I think holies might actually be ready for .10 :D 17:49:29 yay 17:49:41 * dpeg offers a prayer to the good gods, just for safety. 17:49:44 :D 17:49:49 b mon-death.cc:609 17:49:50 er 17:50:15 dpeg: but ... TSO won't let me ninja stuff! 17:51:12 huh 17:55:42 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:46 Soyweiser: hostile control undead sounds like a good punishment against a turncoat necromancer 17:58:03 (I support it also!) 18:00:21 dpeg: we should rather pray to the only true god! 18:00:22 dpeg: OOH! Someone just compared removing MD to removing gnomes :) 18:00:28 I think control undead is temporary, but that isn't much of a problem. They just need to beat you to death. 18:00:39 speaking of whom, is anything coming for Xom? 18:00:40 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:43 there where gnomes in crawl? 18:00:51 little guys, red hats? 18:00:53 Soyweiser: In 0.4.5, yes; I think they left in 0.5. 18:01:08 @??gnome 18:01:09 gnome (12g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 16-39 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Damage: 10 | Res: 06magic(20) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 130. 18:01:10 nomes will be much better 18:01:14 even dnd killed the gnomes iirc 18:01:27 Speaking of "stone soup", does anyone actually remember that the whole story was /the villagers wouldn't give the many food so they had to trick them into it/? 18:01:46 welllllll 18:01:49 *them any. 18:02:25 wasn't the tale something like "apart you can't make a meal but together you can feed everybody!" sort of thing 18:02:40 HangedMan: a bit of both, I think 18:02:48 (I always thought it was an interesting parable against xenophobia and selfishness, with a nice resolution of community spirit and happiness! And a quiet nod to the whole trickster concept.) 18:03:26 I keep thinking of AP's comment 18:03:46 I don't recall it; it's lost amongst the hordes of screaming "omfg noooo" in my memory. 18:04:02 "the “stone soup” label epitomizes the project’s design philosophy: adding sparsely enough to produce a wholesome meal, not adding so much as to compromise the balance." 18:04:38 (way back in 2009) 18:05:03 It's a bit like when you over-salt something. 18:05:20 You have to stick a potato in it and boil it for a while, otherwise it tastes disgusting! 18:05:32 We are the potato, MD is the salt? Hm. That is really stretching the whole culinary parable a bit. 18:05:38 what would this be in terms of crawl 18:05:42 hahahaha 18:06:35 dying so much would be intolerable without all the conveniences ;-P 18:06:54 but of course 18:07:01 (The starch does something to neutralise the saltiness, I think -- though the implication is that the potato sucks up the salt, which I think is incorrect.) 18:09:06 The starch certainly complements the salt nicely, whatever the chemistry may be 18:09:20 Yeah. 18:09:32 It's always better to under-salt -- you can add more later! 18:10:51 There is a Stone Soup tale by Anais Vaugelade (or similar). About a poor wolf who visits the village of the animals. 18:10:54 kilobyte: Fixed the phoenix assert the lazy way. 18:12:03 due: commented it out? 18:12:16 03elliptic * rac38f086daad 10/crawl-ref/source/ (fight.cc melee_attack.h): Retaliation headbutt for minotaurs when dodging. 18:12:26 03due * r2c17955f06f1 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc: Remove phoenix assert, don't try placing on origin instead. 18:12:52 SamB: No, moved it into the "early break" as a condition and remooved the assert :0 18:12:56 *:) 18:13:33 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:18 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:57 just read megane's comment... "are the original developers still around?" :) 18:26:00 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:14 -!- heteroy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:00 minmay is really helping out on the blog 18:45:49 -!- heteroy has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.24/20111103063747]] 18:47:01 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:52 -!- Vandal has quit [] 18:53:46 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:54:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:58 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:02 I was about to say "People are still kvetching about the MD removal?" but then I remembered that this is the Internet we're talking about here. 18:57:09 I'm wondering, does the shroud damage test get applied before or after DD damage reduction? 18:57:25 WHAT? MD WERE REMOVED?!?!?!?!?!?! 18:57:33 Nah I'm just joshing. 18:58:03 dtsund: I always wanted to ask you: how does sidestepping work out in Light? 18:58:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:51 i would guess before because dd damage shaving comes after everything 18:59:04 dpeg: It's hard to say at the moment. 18:59:11 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:12 The original implementation was overpowered and also buggy. 18:59:35 dpeg: Lyulf has just made an awesome comment on the blog. 18:59:36 I've fixed it, but LRC's been down due to a migration and there hasn't been much testing since. 19:00:34 Original implementation gave a flat 50% chance to sidestep anything; new implementation is 50% for mundane stuff like arrows and needles, 20% for corporeal spells, 0% for smites and enchantments and the like. 19:00:55 dtsund: do you know that we had/have something similar on our agenda? 19:01:01 however, that will use Dex 19:01:08 Indeed 19:01:09 dtsund: There's at least three or four comments per day on the blog, according to my inbox. 19:01:21 dtsund, what would sidestepping do? 19:01:22 I think I offered to port the code to Stone Soup 19:01:51 FaMott: If you move and a monster uses a ranged attack right after, there's a chance that the monster will shoot at where you were rather than where you are. 19:02:07 dtsund, so it only works for movement lateral to the shot 19:02:11 because of how beams work? 19:02:12 Basically. 19:02:23 I still need to update the tutorial to tell the player about it. 19:02:25 making corridor fighting weaker 19:02:28 Ya. 19:02:32 Interesting. 19:02:33 dtsund: yes, I am grateful for that. I immediately discussed sidestepping when I got aware Light has it. elliptic has some reservations ... he is not convinced it makes tactics more interesting. I'd hope that with Dex going it'd at least help with stat diversification. 19:02:36 That would make SpBe very useful. 19:02:55 oh, and there is the issue of EV vs Dex, but with sidestepping, I'd suggest to take Dex out of the EV formula 19:03:10 I think crawl in its current state is not well suited for it... but I'll be curious how it plays in crawl light 19:03:20 here he is! 19:03:21 elliptic: hi! 19:03:37 I might need to do Dex-based probability eventually, but that sort of thing will probably be for 0.3. 19:04:40 elliptic: I see it as an incentive to fight that 'taur pack in the open. :P 19:05:48 dtsund: well, it is hard to imagine it working better than waiting around a bend in a corridor 19:06:07 and making every character zigzag-walk when approaching a ranged attacker doesn't seem that interesting to me 19:06:20 that said, I love the mechanic in doomrl, so maybe it can work in crawl 19:07:17 Anyway, I should consider Light's low profile a good thing for now, because I won't just be axing one species in 0.2 19:07:34 dtsund: you'll be axing lots? cool 19:07:43 Well, at least three. 19:07:55 dtsund: I definitely see it as motivatoin to find ranged enemies in the open! 19:07:57 who is it? 19:07:59 Vp and Gh won't be able to survive food removal. 19:08:06 ... 19:08:08 poor sobs 19:08:12 wow, that's radical 19:08:22 HangedMan: Food costs will turn into glow costs. 19:08:31 ... 19:08:36 ridiculously radical 19:08:37 dtsund: I was about to ask how you were going to handle re-balancing spellcasting. 19:08:49 good luck in making that work 19:09:25 This is why I'm not nerfing Haste below its current 75% boost for now; when this goes in, you'll have the choice of Haste or highlevel spells, but not really both. 19:09:34 glow at least is a more fearsome mechanic to use than satiation 19:09:36 well, I'll be interested in seeing how that works :P are you also going to make glow work in a sensible fashion rather than mostly changing only at multiples of 20 turns and such? 19:09:54 Yeah, it'll need to discharge faster. 19:10:09 Current plan is: 19:10:12 food glow costs seem to be a good idea to me (at least if it doesn't have such a drastic effect when you cross the only threshold) 19:10:21 hm 19:10:23 the glow mechanic has always seemed pretty poorly implemented to me; with a smoother scale using it as a cost could work 19:10:33 Give the player an explicit glow meter, up to 10 points safely. 19:10:58 Choko hunger translates to 1 point cost, Honeycomb to 2, Ration to 3. 19:11:00 a problem with glow is having to rest it off (annoying). of course, it's not too much different from resting up mp, so maybe it could work 19:11:01 mmmm 19:11:08 not that I don't hate resting up hp or mp either :) 19:11:18 Haste incurs 6, and causes glow to not discharge for the duration. 19:11:22 Invis incurs 5. 19:11:33 (Haste and Invis are mutually exclusive.) 19:11:37 I personally believe there's a pretty distinct purpose in vagueness and avoiding outright numbers in a lot of crawl 19:11:39 I really hate the sidestep idea though: not only all of elliptic's reservations are spot on, but also it would force people to pay attention to every fight. Streamlining boring parts = good. There's only a limited amount of attention you can put. 19:11:42 dtsund: so you are buffing invis? 19:11:47 but I'm not going to argue much about it 19:12:11 Yes, some monsters will have their invis detection bumped down a notch. 19:12:36 Channel Energy will cost 1; might need to give more MP per use. 19:12:52 wait buffing invis? it is pretty overpowered as is :P 19:12:57 kilobyte: I'd say pay attention to every fight, notice the boring parts, then axe the boring parts 19:13:08 HangedMan: it doesn't have to be numeric ;-P 19:13:09 maybe he means buffing invis in extended 19:13:19 monqy: ie, 99% of fights you have in every game? 19:13:22 HangedMan: Yeah, but with lots of things costing glow, the player will always want to know exactly what their situation is. 19:13:29 it could, you know, be a bar 19:13:32 elliptic: I find Invis to be next to useless. 19:13:44 invis is binary-ish 19:13:49 elliptic: A huge percentage of monsters are SInv, glow, etc. 19:14:12 monqy: currently, boring fights are a matter of several presses of tab. That takes less than a second total. 19:14:13 I had an idea about making darkness reduce see invis to sense invis but then I found out sense invis is really silly 19:14:20 It certainly doesn't need an early game buff. 19:14:29 due: not really... even in zot, you can use it to stab every drac 19:14:51 Mostly, though, you're kind of not worried about dracs at that point. 19:15:03 kilobyte: I changed my autofight so that it stops when I get under half HP, so now I feel sort of comfortable actually holding down tab even 19:15:04 scorchers! 19:15:12 elliptic: hm 19:15:13 elliptic: great idea 19:15:25 please distribute 19:15:56 Anyway, Spriggans, unlike most races with a safe glow cap of 10, will have safe glow cap of 7. 19:15:58 elliptic: or it could be a bit smarter and stop when something nasty comes in. "Nasty" includes jellies and stuff, of course. 19:16:00 kilobyte: I admit crawl as-is isn't a very good target for attempted distillation to only interesting fights, but I believe there is room for improvement; it's not at a dead end 19:16:01 elliptic: should become default 19:16:02 Mummies will be immune to glow. 19:16:08 elliptic: why just yours ? 19:16:16 kilobyte: right, there are lots of customizations that can be done 19:16:18 glow only makes you harder to hit, mutates and damage right? 19:16:28 (obviously, the threshold should be configurable, but...) 19:16:29 er 19:16:30 easier to hit :) 19:16:36 yeah, sorry. 19:16:39 easier. 19:16:47 mummies immune to glow? 19:16:48 dpeg, SamB: at some point I do intend to put some of my autofight improvements in the default autofight, yeah 19:16:55 elliptic: really, autofight needs to be redone from scratch. It's so idiotic it hardly ever manages to go into a door. 19:17:01 HangedMan: Because they're currently immune to hunger. 19:17:03 Is there a reason why spirits are marked as unfinished? 19:17:07 the damage can extend into chaos explosions 19:17:07 at the moment I'm still testing things though 19:17:12 Glow seems like an interesting mechanic, but it doesn't do that much in practice. 19:17:16 I just mean that the flavour seems kinda awkward 19:17:19 1. pathfinding, 2. prioritizing 19:17:20 It doesn't interfere with spellcasting right? 19:17:27 Anything can be reflavored. 19:17:30 Soyweiser, it can mutate you to unholy shit 19:17:32 will you be reworking glow? 19:17:40 We're talking about contamination glow right? 19:17:42 kilobyte: I've done a few improvements for going around obstacles, too, and prioritizing... more could be done though 19:17:50 Soyweiser: uh, have you ever been dark red glow? ) 19:17:52 (Which I assumed the first time I glowed from spellcasting) 19:17:59 kilobyte: !rc elliptic if you want to see what I have 19:18:19 due: I think red once. Due to miscast. It rotted me. (Vp) 19:18:40 Soyweiser: glow causes bat mutations; enjoy your berserkitis! 19:18:41 I think I went dark red the first time I went to Pan. 19:18:51 So sadly my exp with glow mutation is rather limited. 19:19:08 Which is the worst mutation iirc ;) 19:19:15 Silver stars seem to be done as wel. 19:19:30 silver stars should be in, their spells were coded 19:19:43 Who did the spells? 19:19:45 Did I? 19:19:47 dark red from xom once gave me frail 3 and statrot 2 19:19:51 What I'd like to eventually do would be have like 1 point of glow over the limit correspond to one new bad mutation, while making none of the bad mutations as bad as Teleportitis. 19:19:51 kilobyte: or did you? 19:20:06 don't you mean berserkitis 19:20:15 HangedMan: They're both bad. 19:20:27 crippling, more like 19:20:27 due: I did... folks raised objections about their balance being off the bat though 19:20:33 Ah 19:20:45 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: rebooting] 19:21:09 kilobyte: excellent, though! 19:21:16 3d40 and up kind of seems like the new pearl dragon now that pearl dragon has to at least catch its breath 19:21:36 the way it hurts unholies and the impure looks neat though 19:22:44 @??silver star 19:22:44 silver star (15*) | Speed: 15 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 11437 | Sp: holy light (3d40), silver blast (3d43). 19:22:47 @??orb of fire 19:22:47 orb of fire (05*) | Speed: 15 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Flags: 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 11437 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), polymorph other, fireball (3d43). 19:23:02 you can resist that fire! 19:23:11 I wonder if/how dtsund treated Sp and Tr foodwise. 19:23:29 well he said that spriggans have a lower glow threshhold 19:23:43 he said he gave Sp lower glow tolerance, yeah... and for all we know he is removing Tr :P 19:23:48 you can get rF but not rHoly 19:24:28 rF++ is usually reccomended for orb of fire 19:24:43 yeah, they're pretty damn nasty 19:25:31 just do chei zig and spam 7 or 8 slouches, problem solved 19:25:43 (not the chei problem though) 19:27:40 -!- medgno has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:48 kilobyte: Well, I think we can untag silver stars as unfinished, at least -- because they're finished, they just need to eb properly balanced. 19:39:53 uhm, what tag? 19:40:32 M_UNFINISHED? 19:40:43 oh 19:40:45 they're not tagged 19:40:46 never mind! 19:40:53 For some reason I thoguht they were. 19:41:15 @??blessed toe 19:41:15 blessed toe (08*) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 10 (move: 200%) | HD: 14 | Health: 77 | AC/EV: 50/1 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 4953 | Sp: holies, heal other, holy word. 19:41:18 Ah. 19:41:26 Just need to tweak the holies summon slot. 19:41:27 pretty big and noticable thing there 19:41:42 what, are spirits and paladins already done? 19:42:02 yes 19:42:19 beautiful 19:42:30 someone should go do monster recite so there can be 'priest' or 'preacher' 19:42:40 let's see... pan lord v silver star: 1:3, pan lord v orb of fire: 8:1 19:42:50 Paladins need a tweak, of course. 19:43:08 there's holy branded damage being *1.5 but still 19:43:15 ??summon holies 19:43:15 I don't have a page labeled summon_holies in my learndb. 19:43:26 @??silver star 19:43:27 silver star (15*) | Speed: 15 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 11437 | Sp: holy light (3d40), silver blast (3d43). 19:43:37 what's their AI? do they just sit there spamming ever turn? 19:43:55 very advanced ai, acts just like a player would 19:43:59 hm 19:44:06 I'll drop them back down to speed 10 though 19:44:16 hah 19:44:29 summon holies suffers from the initial attempt to remove angels, BTW 19:44:35 kilobyte: Yeah. 19:44:39 creates almost only cherubs 19:44:51 personally i'd give them a zin-flavored halo that does zin corona 19:44:51 kilobyte: I'm changing it to angel/cherub + low chance of spiri t+ very, very low chance of shedu, ophan or paladin. 19:44:57 90, MONS_CHERUB, 5, MONS_SILVER_STAR, 19:44:57 20, MONS_SPIRIT, 5, MONS_OPHAN, 19:44:57 8, MONS_SHEDU, 20, MONS_PALADIN, 19:44:57 2, MONS_PHOENIX, 1, MONS_APIS, 19:44:59 // No holy dragons 19:45:10 if we have silver light silver stars should probably give it off 19:45:31 also remove angels? huh? 19:45:32 kilobyte: I'm nuking phoenixes and apises simply because of phoenix/shedu overlap (keeping them from occurrcing together is good) 19:45:32 Eronarn: currently it's regular halo 19:45:35 no chance at all for phoenix? 19:45:42 oh, 19:45:42 There is a chance for phoenix. 19:45:48 Spirits decay into holy monsters. 19:46:15 mmmmm 19:46:17 kilobyte: right, i mean: have the halo be a different color, but be the effects of zin corona (like sticky flame against some things) rather than just normal corona 19:46:28 Eronarn: yes, that is intended 19:46:32 should get some more holy vaults so that all of these behaviours can be tested outside of zigs 19:46:40 HangedMan: coming up, actually 19:46:47 due: why :( 19:46:48 cool 19:47:00 Eronarn: why:(? 19:47:17 there are only so many gimmicks you can give one monster 19:47:23 one monster that isn't nergalle or mara 19:47:25 due: i'd rather see them be used to do something cool than removed 19:47:30 what 19:47:35 no, angels are staying 19:47:45 cherubs got a massive tweak so they'r eno longer angel clones 19:47:48 due: feel free to edit hallowed_hall -- it's only purpose is testing holies 19:47:54 kilobyte: awesome, okay 19:47:57 war chants 19:48:11 what is the exact effect of the war chant? 19:48:15 so wait what did kilobyte mean about angels then 19:48:26 Eronarn: they're not included in the summon holies spell 19:48:27 I made a stub of a Pan level... even with custom seraphs (with tile and stuff) 19:48:30 ahh okay 19:48:40 however, redefining cherubs isn't the best idea anymore 19:49:02 Seraphs would be nice, but I think I'd rather go with asuras or something else instead. 19:49:07 Eronarn: the initial idea was to remove angels and replace them with cherubs -- basically, angels with slings 19:49:10 (As a complement to daevas) 19:49:18 due: zin A please :) 19:49:21 and then make mennas one 19:49:26 will there be huge rewards in this pan level that isn't a rune that somebody would actually risk all of these dangerous monsters 19:49:29 for 19:49:31 Yes, mennas would be an asura 19:49:33 yeah, this was meant to be a single-vault one off monster 19:50:06 and since drawing a single tile costs me a few hours I'll leave it in 19:50:21 HangedMan: I'd debate trying to convince dpeg for a holy rune that is really just a reflavoured demonic rune -- but I'm not sure how it would affect balance. 19:50:21 kilobyte: oh yes, that's fine of course 19:50:31 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:50:31 @??seraph 19:50:32 seraph (13A) | Speed: 10 | HD: 25 | Health: 185-236 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Damage: 15, 8 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, fly, 07vault | Res: 06magic(96), 05fire, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 7474. 19:50:37 HangedMan: pearl dragon armour is unbalanced like current Yred 19:50:38 holy rune would be a lot harder then demonic runes 19:50:48 did it get changed so you can only get one demonic rune? or am i misremembering 19:50:48 a guaranteed demonic rune substitute would be cool 19:50:49 heh 19:50:52 Eronarn: yes 19:50:52 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:05 then yeah, make it like a 50% chance per game that instead of a demonic rune it's an angelic one 19:51:13 Eronarn, elliptic, do you thin kthat is acceptable? 19:51:13 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:20 (I personally do, but I don't do all-ruuners.) 19:51:35 due: what, seraphs? 19:51:37 would be quite nasty 19:51:45 the angelic rune thing 19:51:52 Eronarn: I don't think you should be forced to get an angelic rune... 19:52:06 elliptic: i would have agreed if you'd said that before shoals was added :P 19:52:06 yeah, not with the current state of holies 19:52:16 oh, well, that's a separate issue 19:52:25 if holies were reasonably balanced it would be fine 19:52:31 I just thought it would be a nice option if you get the holy pan level before finding a demonic rune, to get the rune there instead of needing to search lots of levels for demonic 19:52:34 you get to have multiple demonic rune chances so that if you can't deal with say hellion isle you can wait for another one 19:52:45 even if it is harder, it could still make it more attractive 19:52:45 elliptic: That's precisely what I meant 19:52:52 multiple holy tries feels eurgh 19:53:03 elliptic: If you get the angelic rune, then you can't get a demonic -- but you can skip the holy level. 19:53:12 HangedMan: you shouldn't get multiple holy tries, sure 19:53:14 due: wait what 19:53:16 I don't understand now 19:53:29 due: hmm, i like that - makes it into a challenge level, but doesn't actually affect runeiness at all 19:53:53 elliptic: Okay. you get the holy map. you don't alreaddy have a demonic rune. You can try for the angelic rune, if you want to -- but you can "skip" the level and try for a demonic rune instead. Is thaat what you meant? 19:53:55 kind of feels like certain builts will just say no welp not going to even try 19:53:57 elliptic: i think basically exactly the same as your suggestion except the demonic rune gets renamed to the angelic rune if you happen to get it from that floor 19:54:00 due: yes 19:54:05 Right 19:54:06 HangedMan: which is fine really 19:54:11 eudemonic rune 19:54:13 (if i am understanding correctly without having actually read the backlog properly) 19:54:27 i don't think it should be just renamed 19:54:30 HangedMan: I think beatific or angelic. 19:54:32 if it has a different name then you can query it 19:54:40 in the end, couldn't we replce the demonic rune(s) by the angelic rune from the holy pan level? 19:55:03 dpeg: well, holy pan level will likely be completely murderous for undead chars 19:55:11 and demonspawn 19:55:25 maybe they shouldn't do them :) 19:55:36 it is going to be really hard to balance that, so I don't think we want to make it mandatory for allruners 19:56:02 yeah 19:56:56 of course, there is also the question of what should happen if a TSOite (or other good god worshipper) comes across the holy pan level 19:57:12 Yes 19:57:13 IMO it shouldn't have a rune 19:57:17 elliptic: I agree. 19:57:19 and everything should be peaceful 19:57:20 However 19:57:22 spawn rune, but don't let them get to it without aggroing holy monsters 19:57:26 maybe give them some minor gift or something 19:57:35 Once we handle conversion, we could tweka it slightly. 19:57:36 give some flavor that the rune is placed there to help keep gates to pan sealed away from the mortal world 19:58:10 so they can either move on, or give up their faith and snag the rune 19:58:17 maybe you get excommunicated if you pick up the angelic rune, yeah 19:58:25 and can't rejoin any good god 19:58:33 and have to fight your way out of the level 19:59:47 maybe have holies show up on the orb rune if you have the holy rune (and were a holy worshiper previously) 20:02:10 all nice ideas! 20:02:16 -!- syllogism has quit [] 20:06:35 hm 20:09:46 dpeg: Do you have any objection to purloining another term from Iranian religions? 20:09:47 dpeg: I'm thinking yazata :) 20:09:59 no, of course not 20:10:16 Either asura or yazata. 20:10:21 Iranian or Persian or Zarathrusta (what's the name of the religion for that?) 20:11:02 Zoroastrianism. 20:12:40 so much obscure religious things 20:12:53 it feels like I'm playing smt again 20:12:55 dpeg: Asura as a term is really common both in Vedic -- or more widely Indo-Iranian religions. 20:13:30 dpeg: Yazata, I believe, is specific to Zoroastrianism, however -- and more specifically modern Mithra-branded Zoroastrianism, rather than the kind of core Gathas-based influence. 20:14:02 Quivering I - 15 sling bullets for slings. 20:14:11 * SamB thinks that looks a little silly ... 20:14:28 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:49 I remember some mantis thing talked about sling bullets being weird in terms of flavour 20:14:53 due: all good, go ahead :) 20:15:05 sling bullets are not weird in terms of flavour! 20:15:30 maybe it was the leadness or steelness 20:15:49 [Bdp:D 20:15:51 oh, well, that may be 20:15:52 dpeg: er, :D 20:19:25 what's wrong with their flavour? 20:19:42 they were massively used through all of antiquity 20:20:13 I don't remember much more then them being said they were weird, don't ask me 20:20:21 I'll look up that thing on mantis 20:20:30 steel bullets are bad though 20:20:55 crap compared to lead ones, yet here they're suddenly better 20:20:59 and heavier 20:21:11 maybe "steel" should be reworked as a brand 20:22:10 yeah... a different name, same effect 20:22:41 silver bullets, though... are such a delicious reference 20:22:53 yes! 20:22:57 but sleep here 20:22:58 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 20:24:39 due: instead of messing with a rune, what about sticking with just good loot for now? 20:25:02 like, a pre-enchanted PDA -- great for most chars 20:25:52 holy brand weapons are also damn useful at that time 20:25:56 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:42 on items with mindelay other than 6, better than speed 20:28:25 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:51 kilobyte: for a tracking map? 20:32:12 tracking? 20:32:50 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 20:33:08 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:27 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 20:41:40 kilobyte: DoomRL joke. 20:41:59 When you get a Tracking Map powerup, the game's message is "You download tracking data to your PDA." 20:43:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:14 that message is just absurd 20:45:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:45:40 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:22 kilobyte: hm, areaprop is 1<<7, we can fit in another area without haivng to change the type, yes? 20:49:31 or is it already bigger? 20:50:03 oh wait 20:50:10 I don't think agrid is actually ever saved 20:50:20 03due * r1662c3c9a237 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-data.h mon-death.cc): Tweak spirit fade summons, mark them as finished. 20:50:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:25 03due * r991f3c26b8ca 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-cast.cc mon-data.h): Tweak Summon Holies, Silver Star stats. 20:50:25 03due * r02638061e52a 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-death.cc: Update comment for spirit_fades. 20:50:41 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:23 ahah ignroe me 20:54:05 what happened to them losing speed 15 20:55:46 They lost it? 20:56:57 oh, whoops, looking at the ac/ev change 20:59:43 ah 21:06:18 03MarvinPA * r80d819494ccf 10/crawl-ref/source/ (monster.cc spl-damage.cc): Tweak Shatter damage on petrified monsters, since petrify's damage reduction was changed 21:06:18 03MarvinPA * r5f17f3df006f 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Mark Curse Skulls and Murray as skeletal 21:06:19 03MarvinPA * r69fe2a895fa5 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc: Make LRD abort with no cost when not targeting a shatterable monster or feature 21:09:16 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:28 Evening 21:16:55 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:25 Heya Eivl 21:20:27 Evil* 21:22:16 hello 21:22:41 call me evilmike, otherwise it won't be highlighted :P 21:23:28 hey evilmikee_ 21:23:35 that actually works 21:24:02 I only ever ping people if I need them explicitly 21:24:21 cryp71c: oh, apologies for touching fight.cc again by the way :P 21:24:34 I've never understood why pinging is a big deal 21:27:01 elliptic, :P its ok, everyone else seems to be it 21:27:07 HangedMan, IRC etiquitte. 21:27:07 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:27:07 gah i touched areas.h! 21:27:14 i guess i could shower while it compiles 21:27:15 ciao 21:27:16 ah 21:27:49 HangedMan, LOTS of people leave IRC up all the time, even for hours or days at a time, and if they come back to a ping, will typically treat it as urgent and check scrollback (or logs) for what was said. 21:27:55 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:28:29 Others find the presence of a ping nagging to leave alone, so they'll check it and if its nonesense, you'll have taken them way from whatever they were doing (likely RL work) 21:28:33 Other than that, not quite sure... 21:28:36 *shrug* 21:28:44 Zomg, my pandora station is full of terrible music. 21:28:46 maybe I'm too used to things like !messages 21:29:18 Cryp71c: like pandora's box! 21:29:29 SamB, lol probably.. 21:29:37 Also, apparently I had a minor stroke at some point... 21:29:52 When I setup everything on this box I installed windows 32 bit IMMEDIATELY after installing 6Gb of RAM -_- 21:30:01 * Cryp71c is clearly a genius. 21:30:10 hey, it ought to work 21:30:16 lol, yeah all not 6gb of it 21:30:17 :P 21:30:25 no, I'm serious 21:30:30 it is technically possible 21:30:51 just MS apparantly doesn't trust driver authors to have done things correctly ... 21:30:57 .... 21:31:04 no, really! 21:31:04 Not on a 32 bit system? 21:31:12 There isn't sufficient addressing space. 21:31:20 To access more than roughly 4Gb of RAM with only 32 bits. 21:31:22 physical != virtual 21:31:31 with PAE, it can be done 21:31:54 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:24 they have the code for it, even! it's just not enabled in the license database thingy ... 21:32:35 SamB, hrm...the story is the same on most linux distro's too, though. 21:32:46 As far as not having / using PAE by default, at least. 21:33:20 oh, you can use PAE in windows, too 21:33:41 just not physical addresses past the 4GiB barrier 21:33:51 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 21:34:38 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:57 SamB, perhaps I'm not following you, you're saying that even with PAE you can't address past the 4GiB? 21:35:53 Cryp71c: I'm saying windows deliberately restricts the physical addresses it uses to <4Gi 21:36:04 even with PAE enabled 21:36:09 oh, I see. 21:36:53 it is my guess that they do this because they are afraid some drivers try to store physical addresses in 32-bit variables 21:37:18 Also, :( to W7 reserving 1.5 Gb of the 4Gb of addressable ram -_- 21:37:40 what for? 21:37:51 Windows 7 stupidity, no dobut. 21:38:10 no, I mean, what does it plan to use it for? 21:38:14 SamB, system-reserved RAM, or something like that...XP only reserved between like 400Mb and 1Gb depending on the service pack. 21:38:19 IIRC 21:38:43 Cryp71c: and you're sure that's not tweakable by adjusting the boot options? 21:38:53 SamB, nope, not sure. 21:39:00 (by default this is its configuration) 21:39:13 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:21 of course, they totally redid the boot configuration stuff 21:43:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:24 having seen the relevant code in ntldr, though, I can totally understand why they did that ;-) 21:45:34 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:43 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:17 -_- 3593Mb of ram is "Hardware Reserved" 21:46:31 ... okay ... 21:46:33 This includes the 1.5 Gb that should be addressable, and the other 2Gb that's > 4Gb threashold 21:46:55 Oh, I wasn't stating it for any specific purposes, just making conversation. 21:47:30 I suppose it's unlikely that there are devices totalling to 1.5 GiB of memory mapped addresses gumming up the works ... 21:49:58 well, it may be a bios setting, or could be hardware like my graphics card reserving some of that ram. 21:50:17 yes, it could be 21:51:27 You have any experience with performance and whatnot? Its a 1gb (fairly robust, but not super high end) graphics card, looks like its set to receive 1gb of dedicated video memory. 21:51:41 Not sure if reducing or removing that would affect its performance. 21:52:15 do you have aero turned on? 21:53:13 Eh, just turned it off...I don't really appreciate it or use anything of it. 21:54:11 presumably it wouldn't be a big deal to turn it down some with that off, assuming you aren't going to be using much in the way of 3D 21:54:51 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:54 No, not typically...the most graphically demanding games I play are SC2 (settings aren't tyipcally on high to avoid lag spikes in game) and Civ (which is a HUGE ram hog, so video doesn't seem to be the limiting factor) 21:56:18 I don't have much experience with this, but it stands to reason that giving each top-level window it's own frame buffer (as Aero must) would want a good chunk of VRAM ;-) 21:59:30 I hate areas. 22:04:00 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:10:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:23 ... okay ... 22:15:33 I just found an artifact that was not strangely colored! 22:19:51 strange 22:31:49 huh 22:31:50 what is it? 22:31:56 and colored in terms of text or glyph? 22:40:55 glyph 22:41:07 "cyan" is the term for the color, I guess 22:41:19 and it was a robe 22:44:49 I didn't think artefacts were ever colored cyan 22:45:03 wait I'm dumb 22:45:05 was thinking of inventory text 22:45:25 join the club 22:45:29 (of dumb people) 22:52:25 03dolorous * rfe068acab526 10/crawl-ref/source/xom.cc: Add formatting fix. 22:52:30 cyan colored? 22:53:19 cyan is a pretty odd color for a robe 23:06:53 Zannick: but indistinguishable from the normal glyphs for certain other items 23:07:43 yeah 23:07:48 shields, i think 23:08:22 that is also what I think 23:08:23 -!- ncampion has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:08:36 but I didn't want to be wrong, so I said something vague ;-) 23:11:58 :P 23:19:06 -!- medgno has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:29:59 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:42 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:36 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev