00:06:40 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:36 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:18:25 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:11 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:25 -!- phill has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:19 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:45:40 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:48 Hi, um 00:46:06 I don't play Mountain Dwarves at all, I think I have a handful of games with them 00:46:23 But I wanted to point out that um, the race list in Crawl is straight from D&D 3.5 00:46:46 And the races that aren't playable are found in D:1-3 00:47:01 E.G orcs, goblins, etc. 00:47:38 So it's not exactly an argument to say that minotaurs are based off mythos whereas dwarves are merely Tolkienesque, because after all, that wasn't the intent 00:47:52 If you really want Crawl to be based off mythos, whatever 00:48:21 It's just that there is no basis for that; it would be a preference. 00:48:26 I think so.. 00:48:29 ? 00:48:55 I think everyone must have had too much candy 00:49:04 because it seems dead here now 00:49:14 -shrug- 00:49:26 Oh, and lastly all the races that were removed are also in D&D sourcebooks 00:49:33 Except Grey Elves, which would be probably um 00:49:38 Wood Elves 00:51:20 Oh! That's very clever 00:51:24 Roderic raised a great point 00:51:30 Minotaurs are present in precisely one myth 00:52:05 Dwarves, however, are present in the entirety of Norse mythos as the duergar (which would be the deep dwarves.) and in European myths too 00:52:16 that's right. those are the deep dwarves 00:52:20 not the mountain dwarves 00:52:39 note we didn't remove all dwarves from crawl 00:53:21 Oh 00:53:26 That's why I cleverly added the last five words 00:53:28 -smile- 00:53:43 I did a bit of light reading 00:53:59 The sort of dwarves in English writing are based off the fey 00:54:25 those aren't the mountain dwarves either 00:54:30 Those are dwarves, though 00:54:35 The basis for the modern form 00:54:45 Certainly minotaurs as they are described in Crawl don't exist 00:54:49 you mean the lil' guys? 00:54:52 That is, in fiction 00:54:55 the ones in the lolipop guild ? 00:54:58 Yes, the little guys 00:55:00 Something like that =3 00:55:11 Little spirits that work hard 00:55:26 The modern minotaur is honorable 00:55:35 Favors close combat, especially 00:55:47 Large weapons, extremely strong, seven feet tall, covered in fur, normal feet 00:57:59 Maybe this is absurd 00:58:02 But .. -shrug- 01:00:44 I think you'd get better results by suggesting interesting rules for MD 01:01:14 Hmm 01:02:21 Like, you know, Deep Dwarves have that whole "no regen" thing going on 01:02:21 Mountain Dwarves have immunity to trample and can wield 1.5-handed weapons with a shield without penalty. +3 Shields, +1 Armour, poor aptitudes with Short Blades and Staves 01:02:32 !apt md 01:02:33 MD: Air: -2, Armour: 3!, Axes: 2!, Bows: -2, Charms: -2, Conj: -1, Xbows: 1, Dodge: -1, Earth: 2, Evo: 1, Exp: 130, Fighting: 2!, Fire: 2!, Hexes: -2, Ice: -2, Inv: 0, Long: 0, Maces: 2!, Nec: -3*, Poison: -2, Polearms: -1, Shields: 2!, Short: 1, Slings: -1, Splcast: -3, Stab: -2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -3, Summ: -2, Throw: -1, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -1, Traps: 1, Unarmed: 0 01:02:52 There's no reason for them to have that good an aptitude with fire 01:03:06 I don't see why they're evokers 01:03:26 good fire and evocations are some of the only things that actually made them a bit unique in the first place 01:03:32 but they don't make sense 01:03:37 o.o 01:03:38 <|amethyst> dwarven artificers are a minor trope 01:03:43 crawl apts hardly ever make sense 01:03:47 that's just how it is. 01:03:48 dwarven artificers are a minor trope through the duergar 01:03:53 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 01:03:59 not through Thorbardin dwarfkind 01:04:00 I'm talking about *interesting* mechanics 01:04:07 like merfolk's swimming 01:04:09 SamB, immunity to trample is a trope 01:04:17 <|amethyst> SamB: some kind of weapon-branding (a)ctivated ability 01:04:31 note that the "dwarven artificer" stuff is present in DD 01:04:36 yes 01:05:10 <|amethyst> I guess that's not really interesting, since it duplicates skalds 01:05:13 elliptic, are you neutral to this change? 01:05:29 which change? removing MD? 01:05:41 Yes, removing Mountain Dwarves from DCSS 0.10. 01:06:04 !lg elliptic name=elliptic s=-race race!=om race!=gn 01:06:04 203 games for elliptic (name=elliptic race!=om race!=gn): 1x Grey Draconian, 1x Red Draconian, 1x Purple Draconian, 1x Octopode, 1x Black Draconian, 1x Yellow Draconian, 1x Draconian, 2x Demigod, 2x Naga, 2x Felid, 2x Green Draconian, 3x Merfolk, 3x Kobold, 4x Ogre, 5x Ghoul, 6x Minotaur, 6x Mountain Dwarf, 6x Sludge Elf, 6x Human, 7x Hill Orc, 7x High Elf, 7x Vampire, 8x Deep Dwarf, 9x Deep Elf, ... 01:06:17 !lg elliptic name=elliptic s=-crace race!=om race!=gn xl>2 01:06:17 153 games for elliptic (name=elliptic race!=om race!=gn xl>2): 1x Octopode, 2x Demigod, 2x Felid, 2x Naga, 3x Merfolk, 3x Vampire, 3x Ogre, 3x Ghoul, 3x Kobold, 5x Hill Orc, 5x Human, 5x Minotaur, 6x Halfling, 6x Sludge Elf, 6x Mountain Dwarf, 6x High Elf, 7x Kenku, 7x Centaur, 7x Deep Dwarf, 8x Deep Elf, 8x Draconian, 9x Mummy, 13x Demonspawn, 15x Troll, 18x Spriggan 01:06:27 I was in favor of removing one of Mi and MD, and fairly neutral about which one to remove 01:06:39 I think the flavor argument is reasonable enough 01:06:40 I concur with removing one of MD or Mi 01:06:46 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:49 Targetting LRD no longer defaults to monsters (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4843) by st 01:06:52 I was surprised to come back to see MD removed 01:07:33 I liked old MD a bit better than old Mi (in terms of being an interesting race), but new Mi is a merge of the two anyway so that doesn't matter 01:07:48 <|amethyst> syraine: one argument (don't know if it was made) is that, of the two, MD is closer to another race (HO) than Mi is 01:08:04 |amethyst, in terms of aptitudes or flavor.. 01:08:25 <|amethyst> aptitudes 01:08:29 MD and HO were both axe chars, yeah 01:08:33 .. 01:08:39 Seriously? 01:08:54 Dwarves use hammers and axes. Orcs don't even use Axes usually...? 01:08:56 however apts are easily switched around a bit 01:09:00 MD are no good at HOPr, though 01:09:09 <|amethyst> orcs are better with axes than with any other weapon 01:09:17 MD, however, are the only powerful armor user that can cast 01:09:17 this is why the new Mi has weapon apts that look much more like old Mi than old MD 01:09:33 uh, HO casts a lot more than MD 01:09:35 <|amethyst> !apt HO 01:09:35 HO: Air: -2, Armour: 1, Axes: 2!, Bows: -1, Charms: -1, Conj: 0, Xbows: -1, Dodge: -2, Earth: 0, Evo: 0, Exp: 100, Fighting: 2!, Fire: 0, Hexes: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: 1, Maces: 1, Nec: 0, Poison: -1, Polearms: 1, Shields: 1, Short: 0, Slings: -1, Splcast: -3, Stab: 2, Staves: -1, Stealth: -2, Summ: 0, Throw: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1! 01:09:51 Oh, with a shield 01:10:04 Heavy armour caster was the general thing was it not 01:34:08 03elliptic * ra57a3def5efa 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Remove extra hunger from aux attacks. 01:34:12 03elliptic * r783cd33110e6 10/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc: Make auxes depend more on stats, less on UC skill. 01:45:17 by the way, if we ever wanted to buff minotaur (not sure about this), I'd consider moving its HP from +1 to +2 01:46:08 inspector071 the Stinger (L4 DsVM) ASSERT(!you.turn_is_over) in 'state.cc' at line 173 failed on turn 3174. (D:3) 01:46:12 Minotaurs are naturally hardy 01:46:24 !lg inspector071 -log 01:46:24 1075. inspector071, XL13 DsVM, T:18198: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/inspector071/morgue-inspector071-20111101-063147.txt 01:47:05 that might make it too much stronger than HO as a pure fighter though to be a good idea 01:47:28 There's no issue of power creep 01:47:56 Minotaurs have good weapon aptitudes, but having high health simply makes them a strong character 01:48:29 I believe that the aptitude for EXP for a Minotaur is much higher than that of a Hill Orc. 01:48:33 !apt minotaur exp 01:48:34 Mi (SK_EXPERIENCE)=140 01:58:44 <|amethyst> that was one of the changes 01:58:53 <|amethyst> it's now 130 01:59:14 <|amethyst> still higher than a HO, but the same as MD was 01:59:51 um 02:00:38 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:15:57 -!- Mottie has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:18:07 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:07 Okay 02:44:10 ??web trap 02:44:10 I don't have a page labeled web_trap in my learndb. 02:44:22 Seriously, my D:13 has 1001 web btraps. 02:44:28 It is a frustrating gimmick. 02:45:45 due: yeah, that's for testing them out 02:45:46 they were only put there for testing, but it's been like a month now, and yeah it's pretty annoying 02:45:52 it could probably be removed, yes 02:47:04 on a similar note, cloud traps still have a super high chance for testing purposes 02:48:03 well, cloud traps still are bugged 02:48:24 because nobody likes the cloud code enough to try to fix the bugs, I think 02:48:27 !seen mumra 02:48:27 I last saw mumra at Wed Oct 26 22:47:25 2011 UTC (5d 9h 1m 2s ago) quitting with message Quit: offski. 02:50:15 pleaaase remove them 02:50:22 my D:13 is impossible to walk through 02:54:21 I'll dial it back myself, I suppose 02:55:32 @??basilisk 02:55:32 basilisk (06l) | Speed: 10 | HD: 6 | Health: 26-46 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Damage: 20 | Flags: cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(24) | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 234 | Sp: petrify. 02:55:33 ??basilisk 02:55:34 basilisk[1/1]: Gila monsters were replaced with these in 0.9. Same stats, but with a petrifying gaze attack. 02:59:17 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:42 Evening 03:01:59 hi Cryp71c 03:07:02 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:50 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:11:44 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:15:47 I like cloud traps 03:18:57 I think my annoyance with them stems more from their frequency than the traps themselves. Right now the chance is set to 40%, for each one 03:20:12 well, both should get dialed back, then 03:20:26 40%? Really? 03:20:27 my annoyance with them stems from their buggedness 03:20:34 that sounds way too high 03:20:34 # Currently, each type uses CHANCE: 40%. 03:20:34 # This means that you can expect one trap (of any type) per level. 03:20:35 # For testing purposes! 03:20:50 well, I guess it's somewhat like D:13 being full of web traps :P 03:20:54 What's moth of delusion? 03:20:55 I don't know what the intended chance is supposed to be - there's no comment in there indicating that 03:21:33 moth of delusion? 03:21:38 doesn't exist afaik 03:21:47 what's the plan though? 03:21:59 this is one of wensley's things 03:22:11 initially i think he wanted a moth that casts mislead, but he might have been talked out of it by now 03:22:21 gaah nooo 03:22:33 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:22:59 yeah, I don't think moth that casts mislead is happening 03:23:03 how many times do i need to say over and over and over again that mislead is Mara's thing and no other monsters get it? 03:23:12 do any other monsters have it currently? 03:23:17 no 03:23:23 and he's gotten the message that mislead is off limits 03:23:29 ok good :D 03:24:23 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:23 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:45 -!- st__ is now known as st_ 03:25:49 Why are yaks yellow on Lair:7? 03:26:12 are you sure that's not a death yak? :P 03:26:49 no, in the monster tab 03:28:52 Okay, so I'll dial traps back? 03:30:11 Also why doesn't it prompt me to enter web traps? 03:30:22 dialing cloud traps back before the bugs with them are fixed seems a bit premature to me 03:30:32 I meant web traps 03:30:33 removing the d:13 web traps would be good though 03:30:34 are all the bugs known by now? 03:30:42 not cloud traps, sorry 03:31:03 evilmike: probably 03:32:09 What's placing web traps? 03:32:19 two lines in dungeon.cc 03:32:19 code 03:32:24 can just search for "web" 03:32:25 Oh 03:32:35 place_webs :) 03:32:59 ... ah. 03:33:05 It's hard-coded to place 300 for D:13 O_o 03:33:19 yes 03:43:15 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:47:39 Crosstraining fails to work (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4844) by cerebovssquire 03:51:33 300 03:53:22 Boring loot! 04:01:40 where? 04:02:08 In my lair end 04:03:56 Okay, I said I'd make a new Crypt end when I finished Lair 04:03:58 And then I did orc 04:04:01 whoopsy 04:04:05 03due * rfa86d645facf 10/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc: Remove testing web traps for D:13. 04:06:12 egyptian temple theme still? 04:14:38 yeah 04:14:48 One of my reference books on temples has a nice large layout I'd like to copy 04:14:51 from Karnak 04:15:07 interesting 04:15:24 what's it going to have? I'm guessing mummies and sphinxes, but there must be other stuff that isn't from tomb 04:19:07 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:19:40 that makes me wonder how many vaults in crawl are based on real world things 04:21:00 at least a fw 04:46:21 el Kab! 04:46:24 That's the <3 one. 04:52:22 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:14 hi eino! 04:59:29 Hi due! :) 05:00:35 I'm making an Egpytian temple map for Crypt :D 05:01:10 Ooh, nice! 05:04:47 due: removing webs from testing because they're "annoying" goes contrary to the test's purpose 05:04:47 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 05:04:52 instead, whatever made them annoying should be fixed 05:06:17 they stop autotravel 05:06:38 (they shouldnt) 05:07:35 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 05:09:10 Uh. 05:09:59 kilobyte: 300 webs guaranteed on D:13? 05:10:02 -!- valrus has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:10:57 It's impossible to do /anything/ on D:13 without falling into a web trap. It literally fills the level. 05:11:08 you'll have five times that 05:11:32 it is supposed to be impossible to do much without falling into webs, so this works well 05:11:50 autotravel and --more-- on "You found a trap!" does not work well 05:11:59 Well, it still stops autotravel. 05:12:34 But regardless, according to the others present in the channel at the time, it's been in for a number of weeks -- something like 5 -- and most of the bugs have been ironed out. 05:12:59 if you think so, the rest of the map should be removed too, not just webs 05:13:41 I was unaware there was anything else to it? 05:14:33 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:51 so announced bazaars can be mimics 05:15:12 due, layout_delve is guaranteed on D:13 05:15:15 Ah. 05:15:27 as a part of the same test, I guess 05:17:38 it's not guaranteed, that's something that's extra aggravating - you get levels with corridors full of webs 05:19:17 the layout could possibly be vetoed 05:19:17 why not just add a lua hook for placing webs and do the web placement in the layout? 05:20:02 -!- Keskital1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:08 due: webs are created all the time, not just at level creation 05:21:57 kilobyte: I mean, for testing purposes -- you could link the initial webspam to the layout rather than to the level number, so that, if it does veto, you don't get a thousand webs left behind. 05:24:08 how would a layout get vetoed 05:25:59 oh wait 05:25:59 pointless, all should go together or not at all 05:25:59 it's not about vetoing, D:13 will not get layout_delve if a primary vault gets placed on it 05:25:59 and the hellspider is dragging down the branch anyway 05:25:59 kilobyte: ... that's... what I was saying? the webs should go with the layout, not separately. 05:26:26 due: yeah, but there's little point in testing one but not the other, beyond what we already know 05:26:42 I guess I'm lost. 05:27:18 As a random bystander, I understand what due is saying but not kilobyte, heh. 05:30:21 due, there is no such thing as "layout gets vetoed" 05:31:48 Zaba: incorrect term, yes 05:32:13 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:15 Zaba: but if a layout is set for a specific place and doesn't get used, i couldn't think of what other term to use :p 05:32:21 due, as I've said above, D:13 only doesn't get layout_delve when another primary vault is built there 05:32:32 Zaba: http://sprunge.us/TIbL 05:32:34 so the rest of the level is filled up with rooms and corridors 05:33:07 did we ever work out /why/ it does that? 05:33:10 -!- syraine has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 05:33:14 (and yes, huge map) 05:33:21 why it does what? 05:33:41 falls back to rooms and corridors when placing a primary vault 05:33:55 of course, that's how primary vaults _work_ 05:34:10 oh. 05:34:20 right. 05:34:34 so i suppose the correct question is, is there any way to use primary vaults without falling onto the rooms and corridors layout? 05:34:43 (i.e., using a different layout -- city, etc) 05:34:58 set the 'dis' tag to get the rest of the level filled up with chaotic_city - that's what Dis:7 vaults use 05:35:04 or be in swamp, then the rest of the level gets filled with swamp :P 05:35:14 hm 05:35:26 for anything else - change _build_postvault_level :P 05:35:28 so to resolve nixor's problem with the oriented vaults vault 05:35:35 is to just add a vault tag that works like the dis tag? 05:35:45 what problem is that? 05:36:30 he submitted a pretty awesome Vaults vault 05:37:24 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:25 due, anyway, regarding your crypt ending: Looks nice! (A bit empty, but I guess you're going to fix that). The floor on the bottom line isn't going to be connected nicely, though. 05:37:25 Yeah, I'm not sure how I want to handle that. 05:38:59 due, do you have a link to nixor's vault? 05:39:16 It's on the tracker somewhere 05:39:19 this was a number of ... months ago 05:39:23 possible even sometime last year 05:39:45 Okay, I'lll just close off that edge, I think. 05:40:54 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:10 anyway, I would imagine a vaults vault would work well enough as a minivault 05:47:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:49:31 FilthyApe the Cleaver (L8 MiHu) ASSERT(!you.turn_is_over) in 'state.cc' at line 173 failed on turn 6597. (D:6) 05:50:03 FilthyApe the Cleaver (L8 MiHu) ASSERT(!you.turn_is_over) in 'state.cc' at line 173 failed on turn 6595. (D:7) 05:50:08 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:14 FilthyApe the Cleaver (L9 MiHu) ASSERT(!you.turn_is_over) in 'state.cc' at line 173 failed on turn 6730. (D:6) 05:54:05 03kilobyte * r41ae52051913 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: For monsters that always get the same weapon brand, pre-identify it. 05:54:15 03kilobyte * r8b47a075c5e6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/layout.des: Don't guarantee layout_delve on D:13 anymore. 05:55:25 Hm. 05:55:31 Looks like Xtahua's beath weapon isn't on timer. 05:56:12 could be a small way of making xtahua more unique :P 05:57:18 you mean "inconsistent" 05:57:36 a special power is fine, machine-gun breath without an explanation not really 05:58:09 (Xtahua could use a bump, but better not this way) 05:58:18 yeah thats true 05:58:24 Actually, it is. 05:58:29 MNever mind, my counting was off. 05:58:50 FilthyApe the Cleaver (L9 MiHu) ASSERT(!you.turn_is_over) in 'state.cc' at line 173 failed on turn 7356. (D:7) 05:59:39 due: The layout looked very tomby :) 06:00:02 due: Consider randomizing the secret doors a little? Like I've done in the Volcano subvaults. 06:00:25 Keskitalo: Yeah, not quite sure how I'm gongto progress it. 06:01:23 Reminds me I should work on the Ice Cave, plus I have those volcano_lake subvaults ready but trying to put a subvault on the map makes the volcano bursts buggy. 06:02:05 Gotta run, cheers! 06:02:06 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:02:09 !lm FilthyApe type=crash -log 06:02:09 24. FilthyApe, XL9 MiHu, T:7356 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/FilthyApe/crash-FilthyApe-20111101-105850.txt 06:04:05 03kilobyte * r83f9cc862d91 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/logo.png: Recompress the logo. 06:04:16 03kilobyte * rc9fa8cd486de 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/ (116 files in 22 dirs): Recompress new tiles with more than 60% waste. 06:05:37 I should probably make some vault, too. 06:09:54 it seems the rpois nerf also applies to forms, i.e. statue form 06:10:13 how exactly this guy started eating while stopping delay? 06:10:15 I see the constant roll of blog comments has petered out. 06:10:33 interrupt_activity() -> prompt_eat_chunks() 06:10:42 some lua script? 06:11:31 due, any suggestions on what vault I should make? 06:15:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:28 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:53 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:59 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:48 -!- Keskital1 is now known as Keskitalo 06:36:41 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 06:40:46 * due yawn 06:41:43 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:51:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:54:46 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:01:06 Zaba: is there a reason why except for BRANCH_MAIN_DUNGEON, any non-encompass non-mini vaults are ignored? 07:01:36 _builder_normal() 07:01:49 kilobyte, yes. Because outside of D, they get placed as secondary vaults in _place_extra_vaults. 07:03:05 let's say that the purpose for that is... crystal clear 07:03:16 kilobyte, hysterical raisins ;P 07:03:36 autorobin the Ducker (L1 FeBe) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed on turn 0. (D:1) 07:03:39 autorobin the Ducker (L1 FeBe) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed on turn 0. (D:1) 07:04:48 autorobin the Ducker (L1 FeBe) ASSERT(x >= 1 && x <= sz.x) in 'libutil.cc' at line 941 failed on turn 15. (D:1) 07:04:48 kilobyte, well, one reason for doing that could be preserving level layouts in non-D (instead of using rooms & corridors) 07:05:08 ah, possibly 07:05:48 not sure if there's much point in special-casing D then 07:06:46 kilobyte, keep in mind that the D special case also enables encompass vaults to be placed in it 07:06:50 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:59 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:04 encompass vaults can be placed everywhere 07:09:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:27 oh 07:09:30 right 07:11:13 kilobyte, well, it'd be problematic for large vaults 07:11:24 it's probably already problematic for large normal vaults outside D 07:12:43 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:12:43 right, but whatever solution is better, this inconsistency is just confusing 07:13:10 oh, well, not messing too much, that's your kingdom 07:14:12 _portal_vault_level() is completely redundant, though 07:14:41 the only thing that differs from builder_normal() is that there's no fallback if the map is not encompass 07:15:06 it also has the wizard mode prompt 07:16:20 yeah, but it does nothing specific to portal vaults 07:16:20 ie, that functionality would be more useful globally 07:16:20 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:20 well.. yes 07:16:41 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:55 I wonder what interface would you prefer 07:17:51 "choose map for the next generated level"? "regenerate current to the chosen map"? "set the current to always regenerate to the chosen map"? "set the next level you enter to always regenerate to the chosen map"? 07:17:53 regarding the inconsistency in handling of primary vaults in D and non-D: Well, simplifying it in a straightforward way is bound to either break D vaults or make non-D levels uglier (spontaneous rooms & corridors), so I'd just leave it be for now (as I did a while back while refactoring other parts of that code) 07:18:06 ok 07:20:36 kilobyte, either the first or the second, depending on when one would get prompted, I guess. 07:21:07 -!- Mottie has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:25 can someone make heads or tails of this? https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1447&start=1400#p36621 07:24:37 teleport cancelled because "too stable" with no obvious reason 07:24:49 theres a char dump further down 07:25:43 hm 07:26:17 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:34 i can tell the guy to post it on mantis and attach his save 07:26:46 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:53 might be dead already though ^^ 07:28:15 vault with abyss effects? 07:28:39 though you get a different message in abyss 07:28:43 so...what would people think if combat messages for the player were in 3rd person? 07:29:36 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:38 Cryp71c, that'd be pretty inconsistent with the rest of the messages, no? 07:30:40 Cryp71c: like "A mountain dwarf hits the orc."? Seems quite ridiculous. 07:31:31 -!- edlothio1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:51 Cryp71c: I agree with Zaba and kilobyte 07:32:09 -!- edlothio1 has quit [Client Quit] 07:33:20 kilobyte, no, treat it as a unique..instead of "you hit the hobgoblin" it would be "Cryptic hit the hobgoblin" 07:33:49 !seen evilmike 07:33:49 I last saw evilmike at Tue Nov 1 11:36:41 2011 UTC (57m 8s ago) quitting with message Quit: something happened. 07:33:51 Zaba, and...no, player messages being "you" are the special cased, monsters are always treated by either unique name or monster name. 07:34:04 Cryp71c, right, it would be inconsistent with the rest of the player messages. 07:34:06 03kilobyte * r808fea4f5ab1 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Change the wording on maximally enchanted items. 07:34:25 kilobyte: ionfrigate's was the best one, didn't get around to comment but you already have it :) 07:34:27 which, I think, would be bad 07:34:59 Zaba, what other player messages? 07:35:28 Hrm, anyways, thought I'd ask 07:35:56 um... all 1500 of them? 07:36:40 the game has more than just combat, you know :P 07:36:56 "You quaff the potion of Might" 07:37:02 Or w/e 07:38:43 Cryp71c: why you think third person is better than first person? 07:40:11 oooh berserking bees <3 07:40:31 dpeg: you quaff the potion of might is second person 07:40:49 due: queen bees are now bee-specific moths of wrath afaik 07:41:16 alefury: I gathered, I like the idea 07:45:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:45:56 dpeg: well I don't think crawl is too hard 07:46:00 @whereis 07:46:01 due the Swashbuckler (L17 SpBe), a worshipper of Trog, is currently on D:15 after 56340 turns. 07:46:11 3h45m to XL17 and two runes. 07:46:17 dpeg, its not that I think that the verbage is better, but trimming off player-text from being different than monsters further reduces the amount of code 07:47:41 Cryp71c: ah, for code simplification 07:49:08 uhm... but that simplifications is really, really small, and the effect on the game is huge 07:49:32 and even more, it simplifies anything only in English 07:50:26 (not that I have that much hope to get to the mythical translation framework done for 0.10, but still) 07:50:40 Cryp71c: yes, probably best to not open this (can of worms etc.) 07:51:04 in Polish for example the verb has to agree with the noun's gender, not only person 07:51:12 !seen bhaak 07:51:13 I last saw bhaak at Mon Oct 31 11:28:26 2011 UTC (1d 1h 22m 47s ago) saying i like the comment about playable rats instead of the generic humans :) on ##crawl-dev. 07:51:32 Right, well gendered verbs are pretty common in a lot of other languages, yeah? 07:52:23 Inform 6's designer manual has an interesting section on generating text for foreign languages, specifically with regards gender, etc. 07:52:32 I don't know many languages... but at least all slavic ones 07:53:10 dpeg: ding! 07:53:13 Okay, I am going to bed 07:53:17 goodnight folk 07:53:23 gn8 07:53:30 English has little declination, but it still has some 07:53:48 sometimes masquerading as separate words -- like, articles 07:54:26 due: nights! 07:54:38 you can do without declination as well as positional information. at least i've heard that chinese doesn't always need those 07:55:13 on the other hand, Inuktitut 07:55:22 kilobyte: knowing all slavic ones is easy, they are only as different as all the german dialects ;-p 07:55:27 you can "decline" a whole sentence into a word 07:56:01 er... let's say, they're more distinct than English from German 07:56:25 English is a German dialect gone bad :) 07:56:32 not always, though. Polish to Slovak is about German to Dutch 07:57:35 and Croatian to Serbian is "let's decree that linguists have to call these languages -- as there are two or three different words between them!" 07:58:28 oh, no, not linguists, politicians. if you ever meet a linguist that claims he knows the difference between languages and dialects, just walk away. you can't take this person serious. 07:59:28 "A language is a dialect with an army and navy." 07:59:47 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:14 or banks 08:02:31 no, there is no Swiss language 08:04:49 Switzerland has no navy :p 08:05:34 it does! 08:06:25 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:35 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:56 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:37 bhaak: In the lake? 08:14:09 ghallberg: yes. it's water, there are boats in it with army people on it. 08:14:34 bhaak: I read about this before. 08:14:51 Also one of my parents' friends had a boat in the lake. 08:15:47 with army people on it? 08:22:06 alefury: Maybe? 08:31:02 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:46 <|amethyst> while there is some truth to that old saw, it doesn't explain e.g. Catalonian 08:44:53 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:12 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:38 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:48 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 08:59:56 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:12 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:42 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:25 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:08 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:32 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:14:35 -!- jle__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:13 bhaak: Isn't today that start of your tournament? 09:20:51 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:56 dpeg: only for values of "your" equals to "the vanilla nethack playing people" :) 09:23:26 so devnull is running? 09:23:35 yes 09:24:03 no announcement on rgrn, the slackers :) 09:24:24 hacky as always and almost on the brink of not happening, but this seems to be a trait of nethack tournaments 09:24:37 <|amethyst> nor on /r/roguelikes 09:25:11 they've got more important things to do than to announce the tournament, like setting up the servers :) 09:25:16 <|amethyst> heh 09:27:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:08 03MarvinPA * ra858787ca496 10/crawl-ref/source/ (spl-cast.cc spl-data.h): Make LRD use default targeting again (#4843) 09:34:51 -!- dondy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:04 MarvinPA: what about either LRD not triggering when you fire at a monster or, better, to cycle among walls? 09:36:04 * SamB had no idea esperanto had an army and a navy 09:36:44