00:00:15 Woo, 0.10 00:00:52 Now I just need to deal with my makefile options having changed 00:01:10 Can't find curse armour scrolls. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4808) by nubinia 00:03:54 http://paste.debian.net/139632/ 00:03:57 SamB: still doesn't like clang 00:04:20 Probably should've CXX=clang++; same error from that 00:04:29 http://paste.debian.net/139633/ 00:04:34 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:24 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:24 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli 00:07:33 !tell kilobyte you forgot to claim https://www.ohloh.net/p/12020/contributors/51627654438155 ! 00:07:33 SamB: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 00:08:06 twb: are you using the very latest clang ? 00:08:27 SamB: not even close 00:08:50 I realize that I'm a bit odd for not being a clang user that compiles my compiler from HEAD every morning :-/ 00:09:01 well, okay, the latest distro package 00:09:07 Probably, checking 00:09:30 Compiled crawl fine with gcc, and it has working unicode glyphs, and it even loaded my old save and levelled up a bunch of skills ;-) 00:10:15 oh, yeah, the experience pool is gone 00:10:25 that would probably be why ;-) 00:11:01 Yeah, I see I have some NEWS file reading to do :P 00:11:22 anyway, if you were to pass "NO_INLINE_DEPGEN=y" to make, it might work with clang, too! 00:11:37 even without -MMD working 00:13:23 Pfwoar, nice 00:13:42 Though it's a bit like setting EDITOR=ed, I mainly do it to have an excuse to complain 00:13:50 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:11 yeah, well, apparantly we want clang to work for some reason! 00:14:11 Er, that means "THanks, NO_INLINE_DEPGEN=y worked" 00:14:23 Probably all those silly OS X weenies 00:14:52 hmm, I think we mostly still have it built with the 10.4 SDK 00:16:01 I wouldn't know; I'm on Debian 00:16:25 I'm only getting this from kilobyte and the Makefile myself 00:16:43 I am also on Debian (and Windows, sometimes) 00:19:29 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:26:18 Dungeon overview shows extra vault entrance (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4809) by nubinia 00:43:09 vaults entrance mimic? 00:48:03 "it's not a bug, it's a feature (mimic)!" 00:49:52 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:58 -!- Keskital1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:07 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:10:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:11 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:16:23 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:29 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:52:45 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:58 -!- twb has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:08 -!- Keskital1 is now known as Keskitalo 02:16:36 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:31:40 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 02:49:41 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:51:40 due: the problem with regular passable lava at the map border was that a lot of code assumed that passable means passable, and then something else asserted 02:51:41 kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 02:51:56 kilobyte: yes, but I dealt with that 02:52:25 The code that assumed passable meant passable wasn't checking bounds, afaik. 02:52:41 due: not really... I fixed 693476984 such bugs then got tired and split the two lava types (the other is not passable and has a different description, that's all) 02:53:09 ah 02:53:35 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:53:38 now there's a hard requirement for all border cells to be impassable, this simplifies things quite a lot 02:54:11 like, the builder can safely know whether it can put a vault at the edge 02:56:06 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:04 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:09 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 03:17:27 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:49 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:43:38 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:43:45 hi 03:58:07 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 04:04:15 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:17:03 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:17 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:47 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Quit: Recalculating TATARI at "the crossing crossing"] 05:15:42 MarvinPA: what about dropping stash_filter entirely? Quite hard to see what not storing the info could get us. 05:16:04 yeah, i don't see that it's useful for anything at all really 05:16:35 i suppose in the distant past useless items were sort of annoying on the search list, but now they're greyed out and easy to skip past 05:41:13 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:25 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:25 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli 05:42:51 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:11 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:52:08 03kilobyte * rd77a7352e1de 10/crawl-ref/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Remove stash_filter completely. 05:52:33 due: you said you hate "loaded stick". What should I change it to? "knobbed stick" like mumra said? "knobbly" you mentioned (which sounds weird to me)? 06:23:53 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:22 moin 06:29:23 Zaba: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 06:29:23 !messages 06:29:23 (1/2) kilobyte said (3d 20h 4m 56s ago): could you tell me which vaults should not clear properties (colour, pgrid, height, tile_flv)? Currently, if a overwritable vault sets those, they carry over even when overwritten. 06:29:23 !messages 06:29:23 (1/1) kilobyte said (14h 7m 59s ago): dammit, after wasting 3 hours, it appears the "local prelude" code is unused and not working. Any reason to not purge it? I kind of fail to see what it'd be good for. Alternatively, we could hijack it for dynamic acceptance. Another such unused chunk is VETO. Used ones: VALIDATE, EPILOGUE. 06:30:34 kilobyte, I'm not really closely familiar with that code, so it's your call 06:31:45 kilobyte: knobbled or knobbly 06:39:49 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:07 when switching between good god, the piety transfer seems to be problematic 06:42:21 kilobyte: design or code? 06:42:40 either it's too small to have any meaning, or makes going Ely first a no-brainer 06:43:10 yeah, if i hadn't been mainly playing monks recently i'd always make sure to go ely for the extra piety when picking up a good god 06:43:21 or even TSO if you know of a vault with plenty of monsters nearby 06:44:29 I wonder: what if instead of the cap we transferred half of the piety? 06:45:38 would greatly reduce the effectiveness of the Ely trick, and on the other hand greatly encourage thinking about switching between good gods 06:46:34 for ely i'd say weapons should just stop giving piety once you hit one or two stars of piety anyway 06:46:34 i think the wiki proposal suggests something along those lines 06:46:42 wouldn't help here though 06:46:52 yeah, a seperate issue 06:47:09 and that does seem like it might be quite nice to encourage more swapping between good gods 06:47:17 transferring half piety, that is 06:48:39 two gods one crawl 06:54:09 03kilobyte * r5e49ef35dc7c 10/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc: When switching between good gods, transfer half of the piety. 06:55:17 ooh, I like that change 06:55:32 assuming piety wasn't transferred before 06:55:54 ah, it transferred full piety but capped before? half but uncapped is probably neater 06:58:52 and it was capped fairly low, yeah 07:03:14 is there some minimum? like the usual starting piety when taking up a god? 07:04:46 looks like it, yeah 07:04:46 15 07:04:46 going below wouldn't do anything since you can abandon then join 07:05:38 what with Tiamat's GDA? There's an idea to give her an unrand cloak, but what should it do? 07:05:59 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:05 +rF +rC +rP? 07:06:24 that'd be pretty powerful in an unrand 07:06:24 its no better than hat of the alchemist, and tiamat is really rare 07:06:40 i never saw tiamat for example 07:06:43 what about all her AC :( 07:06:49 increase base AC? 07:07:22 i guess, seems weird for her to have 35ish innate AC though 07:07:33 @??tiamat 07:07:34 Tiamat (06d) | Speed: 10 | HD: 22 | Health: 380 | AC/EV: 25/10 | Damage: 60, 45 | Flags: cold-blooded, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(146), 03poison | XP: 13593 | Sp: b.lightning (3d25) / b.quicksilver (3d20) / cold breath (3d28) / fire breath (3d28) / poisonous cloud (3d13). 07:08:34 @??dispater 07:08:34 Dispater (06&) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 450 | AC/EV: 40/3 | Damage: 50 | Flags: 05demonic, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(213), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 13932 | Sp: greater demon, crystal spear (3d35), iron shot (3d29), hellfire (3d20). 07:09:22 increase to 30? 07:09:32 still a tiamat nerf :( 07:09:41 unless the cloak has a bunch of AC on it i guess 07:10:35 that would be a bit crazy 07:10:35 shouldnt be more than +2 imo 07:10:35 kilobyte: good one 07:11:06 well, tiamat's whole thing is being ridiculously tough so it'd be sad to lose any of that 07:11:13 yes! 07:11:17 alternatively the resists could be internalized and the cloak could give some AC 07:11:45 could just be something like +5 dragonskin cloak with no other effects. 07:12:35 maybe MR 07:12:50 i thought draconians didn't wear dragons, and that was part of the reason for the change or something :P 07:12:57 or perhaps a _partial_ resistance 07:13:45 ie, rF+ rC+ rPois, but only half of the time 07:14:55 MarvinPA: I don't recall "wearing dragons" being listen among the reasons, and in source material (Dragonlance), draconians hated the type of dragons whose eggs they were created from 07:15:08 ah okay 07:15:48 well i definitely remember a couple of people were against changing it back and giving them a decent armour apt because it'd be weird to encourage dracs to wear dragon armour 07:15:59 oh, I wondered why in ZotDef Tiamat's band was decked out in chains and plates... turns out they can pick up body armour 07:16:04 i don't feel too strongly either way 07:16:15 octopodes and Gastronok can do that too :p 07:16:25 hm, either way, tiamat is a tough mofo, he could probably wear dragons no matter what everyone else does 07:16:31 (except Gastronok is only MONUSE_STARTING_EQUIPMENT) 07:16:37 she! 07:16:40 right 07:17:01 actually, it's only Crawl where she's not an actual dragon 07:17:19 i know, babylonian creation myth n stuff 07:17:42 * dpeg gives alefury a degree in Ancient History. :) 07:18:19 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:41 oh hmm... Wikipedia says in the original myth she was not a dragon but a weird creature 07:18:50 mother of all dragons, though 07:22:40 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:23:47 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:10 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:37 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:48 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:08 03kilobyte * r356a0a0efffe 10/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc: Don't allow monster draconians, octopodes and Gastronok to pick up body armour. 07:46:10 03kilobyte * rd066b0fac84d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Make the giga bat tile even larger, use the old one for megabats. 07:46:29 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:34 Morning 07:49:16 afternoon! 07:49:51 Holla kilobyte 07:50:15 Sorry for my bad memory, who is Raphael again? galehar? 07:50:56 yup 07:59:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:08 03Cryp71c 07unified_combat_control * r71b738e8b44d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (actor.h melee_attack.cc melee_attack.h monster.cc monster.h): Get basic melee combat working, fix monster energy usage 08:08:38 kilobyte, I'm afraid to do this merge, lol...4 months worth of master changes -_- 08:11:08 Cryp71c: I watched the changes so I might have an idea what needs to be done 08:11:16 Cryp71c: also, it can be done piecewise 08:11:30 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:11:52 kilobyte, I don't mind doing it all in one go, if I get started now I should have time...one thing that is odd, when I put in "git diff `git merge-base HEAD master` master" it brings me up to a prompt of changes (color-coded and all) and I'm not sure what its asking me to do... 08:12:51 this is on msysgit...I wish running a linux env at work wasn't so difficult -_- 08:13:21 eh? diff is a non-interactive command... 08:14:14 kilobyte, does that command just bring up the diff between the two, or does it automatically apply them to the files, ready to be commited pending conflict resolution? 08:14:26 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:38 no, just shows 08:14:47 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:09 kilobyte, is there an easy way to apply the updates to files I haven't touched, so that I can then use the diff to examine fight-specific changes? 08:16:05 just "merge" 08:16:22 you'll see the conflicts 08:16:52 and as before, you changed fight.cc so much it's easier to throw away our changes and apply them by hand 08:17:03 git diff `git merge-base gs/unified_combat_control master` master -- fight.cc 08:17:09 no gs/ 08:17:30 gs? 08:18:00 my name for the official repository 08:18:09 oh gotcha 08:18:22 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:46 if you didn't specify one you have "origin", but that's confusing once you get more than a couple (I've 16 configured...) 08:19:03 in your case, you want your local unified_combat_control branch, of course 08:19:14 right off the bat, looks like to-hit values got scaled up to 4-digits vs just 2? 08:19:48 kilobyte, anyways, to merge everything, while on my branch just git merge master ? Then ignore all the fight changes and apply those by hand via the diff command you just gave? 08:21:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:21:35 -!- acroyear2 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:08 right 08:22:33 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 08:22:56 hrm, a few more conflicts than I expected 08:24:25 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:30 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:16 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:18 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:43:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:43:45 kilobyte, _is_religious_follower, _tag_follower_at etc. etc. etc. got removed? 08:43:56 (stuff.cc) 08:43:58 !tell galehar I'm afraid I'm about to break save compat; skill_menu_state has a remark about sorting it at the next major tag bump. How should it be sorted? 08:43:58 kilobyte: OK, I'll let galehar know. 08:44:41 Cryp71c: I don't remember, lemme search for it 08:45:38 i think galehar said he wouldn't be on irc for a bit, might need to send him an email 08:45:56 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:11 Cryp71c: mon-transit.cc 08:47:57 kilobyte, ah, k 08:50:15 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:19 kilobyte: would you enable the nausea branch? 09:13:42 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:59 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:16:46 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:24 nausea? 09:19:27 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:19:30 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 09:33:28 kilobyte, I've got nearly everything but the fight stuff done...I'm down to the makefile..why its giving me a conflict IDK. 09:33:54 kilobyte, http://pastebin.com/YaVKYYQn 09:34:32 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: the filenames changed makefile* => Makefile* 09:35:32 |amethyst, yeah I noticed that, but that's not the cause of the conflict. 09:35:38 kilobyte, wait..did I add attack.o in there maybe? 09:35:48 Perhaps that's the source of the conflict... 09:36:06 |amethyst, do you have master on a git somewhere handy? Can you pastebin the top bit of the makefile? 09:36:09 it doesn't exist in trunk so i would guess so? 09:36:15 ah, k. 09:36:25 Its been almost half a year! I don't rememember :P 09:36:28 heh 09:36:30 <|amethyst> Makefile.obj? 09:36:42 <|amethyst> Cryp71c: looks like you added attack.o and master added asg.o 09:37:06 <|amethyst> so keep them both and you should be good 09:38:44 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:06 you know, merges are easier if you use git merge ... 09:40:27 and, say, kdiff3 09:40:29 you know, merges are not easier when you're merging in 4 months worth of changes into a branch which has touched 1/3 of all the files :P 09:40:53 Well, and that's only the files which didn't auto-resolve their conflicts. 09:41:24 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:32 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 09:41:44 <|amethyst> it helps to merge or rebase every once in a while, but I guess you know that now :) 09:41:45 you work too much! don't let dpeg's whip hit ya! 09:41:57 |amethyst, I've been gone for 4 months :P 09:42:02 Its not that I got lazy 09:42:04 bhaak: is it a whip of venom ? 09:42:04 hehe 09:42:07 <|amethyst> ah, yeah, that would do it 09:42:58 SamB: worse, a whip of naturalization, if you get hit, you turn into a German! 09:43:28 hmm 09:44:28 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:43 * dpeg whips bhaak. 09:48:35 * bhaak is immune, having one drip of German blood already 09:48:37 lol I've never seen this, its a conflict WITHIN a conflict 09:48:55 It should be made into a sequel "Inception: Conflicts" 09:53:51 the original was confusing enough! 09:59:32 what combo shall I fail to defend the orb with next ? 09:59:43 I'm getting bored of DDNe 10:02:40 DEFE 10:02:44 blow things up 10:03:08 kilobyte, am I mistaken, or did trunk used to have "identify_mimic" ? 10:03:27 (Its no where in master anymore, but some of my conflicted code uses it, and I'm pretty confident I didn't create it) 10:03:45 i think the mimic rework probably happened in the time you were gone 10:04:21 so loads of mimic-related stuff has changed (no idea about identify_mimic in particular) 10:04:35 -!- syllogism- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:57 Cryp71c: you can use the pickaxe to find out! 10:06:20 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:10:05 git log -S identify_mimic master -- 10:10:34 (the -- is really only needed if you have a file/directory named master in your working directory) 10:11:34 dpeg: for nausea, which variant do you mean? The one with a hard block even at Starving, or the one without? 10:11:43 -!- Vandal has quit [] 10:11:43 SamB, does it matter if I'm on a branch other than master? 10:12:02 so...mimics are always known, even when seen from a distance? 10:12:05 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:12:16 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:19 yeah 10:12:26 so...why do we have mimics :P 10:12:29 because when they're unknown, they're not monsters 10:12:45 Cryp71c: they're better it now! 10:12:57 the new mimics are pretty great 10:13:09 oh ok 10:13:13 kilobyte: without suffices. Berserkers are not affected, and for casting I'll want to play a few guys- 10:13:19 I thought you meant the mechanic of mimics being unknown was removed. 10:13:28 !seen edlothiol 10:13:28 but instead they're actually items until the moment they turn into monsters? 10:13:28 I last saw edlothiol at Tue Oct 25 13:11:30 2011 UTC (2h 1m 58s ago) joining the channel. 10:13:39 Cryp71c: at the very last moment, yes 10:13:45 yeah, or doors! 10:14:06 i liked floor mimics :P 10:14:14 apparently they were a bug though :( 10:14:14 lol, floor mimics, really? 10:14:20 That's crazy. 10:14:23 I apported a potion once, but it was a mimic! It landed in the water. 10:14:31 Then it climbed out! 10:14:31 dpeg: hi 10:14:36 ZChris13: ... wow 10:14:49 edlothiol: Hi! Did you have a chance to glance at the survey? 10:15:05 Also door mimics have a chance to replace vault doors 10:15:13 even the big ones 10:15:29 ZChris13: a pretty good spot chosen by the mimic 10:15:43 dpeg: yes, I just didn't write an answer yet because I had an exam 10:15:44 So part of the Crypt:5 vault just started chasing me. 10:16:00 It looked like a bug, messing with vaults like that. 10:16:28 edlothiol: no problems. Exam went well? 10:16:44 dpeg: but I mostly thought it was pretty good 10:16:53 If one part of the gate is a mimic, the rest of the gate should be too, hehe. that would be funny. A whole swarm of door mimics. 10:16:58 kilobyte: you mean, technically they aren't considered mimics until they become known ? 10:17:02 dpeg: hmm, I'll see ;) 10:17:07 edlothiol: cool. If you want to add/adjust questions for webtiles, tell us! 10:17:09 before that, they're actually items that will become mimics ? 10:17:40 SamB, in the old code (the code of my time, lol) they were monsters who had forged glyphs and descriptions to read the same as the items they represented 10:17:57 sounds kludgy 10:18:03 dpeg: I will 10:18:05 hence the rework :P 10:18:08 but if you tried to interact with them (like apport) they would have funny response text (like "The stack of gold shudders and glows" and thent hey would turn into items. 10:18:18 whereas what we have now is a hack ;-P 10:18:24 s/turn into items/ turn into monsters 10:18:35 SamB, yeah I'm not sure I wanna look at that code. 10:18:46 I never said it was a bad hack ... 10:18:46 MarvinPA, is the fight code still the ugliest thing in modern DCSS? 10:19:01 i haven't delved into it very recently 10:19:04 SamB, hacks are hacks, the quality of the hack is irrelevant :P 10:19:11 i'm sure it has its competitors 10:19:15 there are lovely hacks 10:19:17 -!- Vandal has quit [] 10:19:20 and there are awful hacks 10:19:27 And yet, they're still hacks. 10:19:51 did you hear about the one where they reassambled a police car on the roof of a dome ? 10:20:05 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:38 Cryp71c: dict 'neat hack' 10:22:30 monster pathfinding is often described as messy 10:22:43 Pathfinding is always messy. 10:22:50 * Cryp71c drops fight rewrite, creates new_pathfinding branch 10:22:51 Muwahahahaha 10:23:01 You will never have my branches, they'll never be finished! 10:23:22 -!- acroyear2 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:23:26 Is hive still in Trunk? 10:23:44 not as a branch 10:23:49 oh bummer 10:24:01 there's a portal vault in the works but it's disabled for the moment 10:24:07 What 10:24:14 I don't get Hive at all? 10:24:18 nope 10:24:32 The bees need a break too, you know. 10:25:13 Yeah they'll get a break. After I'm done burninating them. 10:25:27 That's a bummer. 10:25:48 other hive vaults don't almost any food after the changes, though 10:25:50 Hrm, In my trunk game I started a few days ago, I saw a swarm of bees and a queen be coming out of some wax 10:25:59 Indicating that there was a branch entrance... 10:26:17 unless they generate less larvae than food 10:26:18 Cryp71c: might have been a vault 10:26:25 a portal vault 10:26:33 without a portal? 10:27:19 yeah, looks like its an entrance vault without an entrance :P 10:27:22 I don't pretend to know how it works ;-P 10:27:37 kilobyte: what was the change? 10:27:54 dpeg: berserking and eating honeycombs/jellies 10:28:18 they start on the food so the "race" is lost at the start 10:28:27 * SamB really ought to learn how to write an emacs mode for .des files sometime soon :-( 10:32:24 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:58 kilobyte: should I redo the vaults? 10:33:29 the good thing is that players get a level sound bee alert. 10:35:15 by the way, compare david_nohive_1 with minivault_7 10:37:32 Did I add that there? 10:37:43 (just done comparing) 10:42:37 I moved david_hive_1 to david_nohive_1, but the only change was removing the entrance 10:42:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:27 ok 10:48:47 kilobyte: again, shall I try to make the bee vaults more amenable to the race? 10:51:06 dpeg: we'd have to write them from scratch, the old ones make sense with bees but not larvas 10:51:55 kilobyte: I think I could do something about that 10:52:07 03kilobyte * rda20ac217be4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Don't place bee larvas in old vaults. 10:52:16 hm 10:52:17 03kilobyte * racc067bff36c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des: Three furniture vaults: a hexagonal grid of columns. 10:52:53 kilobyte: spawning just one larva would help, for example. As would placing the food in a mindful way. 10:53:58 hard to do that in bee rooms which are by definition mindless :( 10:54:27 I kind of fail why do we keep them at all, a regular vault can do the same and look nicer 10:54:54 well, make the special rooms stop doing bees 10:55:19 oh, the bee rooms are not interesting, yes 10:55:28 the bee vaults are much better 10:55:43 oh, did you see that idea for zot mimics in ##crawl ;-)? 10:56:03 SamB: don 10:56:08 t read ##crawl, what is it? 10:56:15 you'd get to the orb ... only to discover that the orb was in another castle! 10:56:17 fr: orb mimic 10:56:21 hah! 10:56:47 as in, the other nook of the orb chamber, or something more devious? 10:56:58 apocalypserobin (L3 VpMo) (Temple) 10:57:07 as in, there would be another branch / portal vault you'd have to get it out of 10:57:21 !lm apocalypserobin type-crash -log 10:57:21 Malformed argument: type-crash 10:57:25 !lm apocalypserobin type=crash -log 10:57:25 3. apocalypserobin, XL3 VpMo, T:199457361 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/apocalypserobin/crash-apocalypserobin-20111025-155655.txt 10:58:56 presumably the portal/stairs would be created ("revealed") upon the discovery/defeat of the mimic 10:59:41 how the hell did apocalypserobin crash while waiting in the Temple? 11:00:51 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:09 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:24 Napkin: you may want to castrate whoever is playing apocalypserobin, BTW 11:03:49 does CDO have clua enabled ? 11:04:13 not sure what's the speed of CDO compared to my old server, but in the past it took 24h at 100% CPU time 11:04:26 this might be more due to Crawl's bloat or less due to optimizations 11:05:00 why the heck does waiting in the *temple* take that long? 11:05:08 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:05:09 I thought there were no spawns there! 11:05:39 let's say that Crawl is not exactly efficient 11:05:40 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:06 you know, it would be handy if someone would symlink morgues/trunk to morgues/0.9 ... 11:06:26 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:44 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:03 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:37 elliptic: hi! 11:07:41 hi 11:08:23 I promised evilmike to push his Pan vaults this weekend (and I will). However, I cannot assess threat very well -- I am just not a Pan person. CAn you? 11:12:01 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:55 kilobyte: oh, I found out why MinGW doesn't have gold 11:17:02 SamB: to purposefully slow it down? 11:17:16 no! 11:17:22 it's because gold is ELF-only 11:18:12 * dpeg likes how kilobyte always assumes the best. 11:18:31 evidently ELF and [PE-]COFF are different enough to make it prohibitively difficult for one linker to efficiently handle both 11:19:29 and it seems that the author also originally wrote GNU ld 11:19:55 because GNU's *previous* linker was too generic and slow 11:20:06 and it was designed for COFF 11:20:23 (The current ld, not the previous one.) 11:20:36 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:14 Anyway, I can't help but wonder about the possibility of using MS's link.exe :-) 11:21:39 hayenne (L13 SETm) ASSERT(you.wizard && !you.did_escape_death()) in 'xom.cc' at line 3836 failed. (Abyss) 11:21:53 are you a wizard :o 11:22:04 that's an odd assert 11:22:25 SamB: somehow I don't suspect it will ever support -flto :p 11:22:54 kilobyte: you very well know that that's opposite to my goal! 11:23:04 and -flto gives a great speed boost. Our official Windows binaries use it. 11:23:06 [6~ 11:23:30 yeah, but I was looking for a speed boost in the hack/recompile/test cycle! 11:23:48 not the trunk builds from CDO, but once CDO is upgraded to wheezy... 11:24:53 but.. but... but that 0.1 sec of total CPU time used by Crawl while you test your new feature won't decrease to 0.075s! 11:24:55 Damn building just had a fire drill 11:24:57 stupid fire drills.... 11:25:32 kilobyte, wait what, what's apocalypserobin, and why is it on turn 200 million? 11:25:39 kilobyte: you know full well that the reduced swapping during the link would make up for that many times over! 11:25:50 Cryp71c: that's what it DOES 11:25:58 SamB, but, why? 11:26:00 Cryp71c: someone spent 36 hours pressing 5 on a bot 11:26:05 Cryp71c: to see what happens! 11:26:16 also, to test the apocalypse, evidently! 11:26:23 kilobyte, is it something new, or has the bot been doing that for a while? 11:26:29 oh 11:26:31 just finished 11:26:37 @whereis apocalypserobin 11:26:37 apocalypserobin the Insei (L3 VpMo) quit in the Temple on 2011-10-25 after 199999999 turns. 11:27:00 lol, NOoooo 11:27:00 we should make it so that if you can get to the apocalypse in Zotdef, you win 11:27:02 he was so close 11:28:39 Cryp71c: it quits you before advancing the turn counter 11:29:22 kilobyte, oh, so it was actually on 200 million when the error occurred? 11:30:02 kilobyte: quits with a message? 11:30:04 kilobyte: why does it do that ? 11:30:04 it's not an error, the game just quits you when you hit that turncount 11:30:15 it should give you a "death" message 11:30:24 even if you don't actually ide 11:30:26 it does! 11:30:27 it does, you die of quitting 11:30:38 !lg apocalypserobin 11:30:38 11. apocalypserobin the Farming Insei (L3 VpMo), quit the game in the Temple (circular temple 6) on 2011-10-25, with 67 points after 199999999 turns and 36:40:50. 11:30:38 Cryp71c: no, it was some other crash 11:30:44 I meant an *intersesting* message 11:30:52 !log apocalypserobin 11:30:52 11. apocalypserobin, XL3 VpMo, T:199999999: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/apocalypserobin/morgue-apocalypserobin-20111025-160851.txt 11:30:56 mpr("Outside, the world ends."); 11:30:56 mpr("Sorry, but your quest for the Orb is now rather pointless. " 11:30:56 "You quit..."); 11:31:01 SamB: like that? 11:31:08 Outside, the world ends. 11:31:08 Sorry, but your quest for the Orb is now rather pointless. You quit... 11:31:17 :P 11:31:20 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:31:22 MarvinPA_: in the score file/log! 11:31:35 it is in the morgue file 11:31:39 we don't really need anything else :P 11:31:43 SamB: we do not want to encourage players to actually do this. 11:31:45 there probably shouldn't be any additional encouragement to try it, yeah :P 11:31:50 oh 11:32:21 The message makes clear that it is not a bug, that is all. 11:32:22 we *could* up it to something closer to 2^31 or 2^32 ... 11:32:27 why? 11:32:48 how far from those is it now ? 11:32:59 not very 11:33:01 oh 11:33:02 This is anti-playing, it should get as little thought and effort as possible. 11:33:03 // 2B of 1/10 turns. A 32-bit signed int can hold 2.1B. 11:33:03 nevermind then 11:33:39 dpeg: I thought maybe if it was upped, it would discourage people from doing this 11:33:49 if it was upped it would encourage people to do it again :P 11:34:00 fine 11:34:00 2^10 ca 1000, 2^30 ca 1000000000 11:34:01 limits are there to be hit! 11:34:22 right 11:34:31 how about 2^60 11:34:45 what? 11:35:09 and make crawl sleep more when searching 11:35:12 ;-P 11:35:26 Look at what kind of depressed and hopeless souls Nethack has attracted. We don't want that. 11:35:34 fine, fine 11:35:50 * SamB goes back to poking around with GDB 11:36:15 yeah like that stenno guy, I hear he eats his toe cheese 11:36:22 Much better to kill them all in ZD! :) 11:36:31 it was already increased, used to be 1B 11:36:56 BlastHardcheese: maybe he wasn't depressed but hungry? 11:38:37 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:38 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Client Quit] 11:39:00 Did we make progress on MD eradication? 11:39:45 not yet 11:40:08 would be good to axe them before the save compat bump though 11:40:52 We're enough devs around to give them the axe, aren't we? 11:40:58 can someone assign this to greatzebu? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2801 11:41:05 hes in charge of mac builds, right? 11:41:23 The last obstacle was to keep Fire for a melee build? elliptic? 11:41:49 well, the obstacle was coming up with a concrete proposal 11:42:26 keeping something with a good fire apt certainly isn't mandatory, but could be nice 11:42:27 i think it was a matter of figuring out exactly which apts to tweak and how, yeah 11:43:04 DDs are still dorfs 11:43:16 couldn't we take the average of MD and Mi or something? 11:43:22 (for physical skills) 11:45:17 !apt md sort= 11:45:18 MD: Fighting: 2!, Short: 1, Long: 0, Axes: 2!, Maces: 2!, Polearms: -1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -2, Xbows: 1, Throw: -1, Armour: 3!, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -3, Stab: -2, Shields: 2!, Traps: 1, Unarmed: 0, Splcast: -3, Conj: -1, Hexes: -2, Charms: -2, Summ: -2, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -1, Fire: 2!, Ice: -2, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: -2, Inv: 0, Evo: 1, Exp: 130 11:45:20 !apt mi sort= 11:45:21 Mi: Fighting: 2!, Short: 2, Long: 2!, Axes: 2!, Maces: 2!, Polearms: 2, Staves: 2!, Slings: 1, Bows: 1, Xbows: 1, Throw: 1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: -2, Stab: 0, Shields: 1, Traps: -1, Unarmed: 1!, Splcast: -3, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -3, Charms: -3, Summ: -3*, Nec: -3*, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -3, Earth: -3*, Poison: -3*, Inv: -1, Evo: -3*, Exp: 140 11:45:59 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:46:16 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:34 Pla, ranged, Arm, Dodge, Evo are most important, imo 11:47:48 and the uniform spell skills of Mi aren't appealing anyway 11:47:59 Fighting: 2!, Short: 1, Long: 1, Axes: 2!, Maces: 2!, Polearms: 1, Staves: 1, Slings: 0, Bows: 1, Xbows: 1, Throw: 0, Armour: 2!, Dodge: 0, Stealth: -2, Stab: -1, Shields: 2!, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1 11:48:12 would be the approximate average of the two for physical skills 11:48:48 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:41 elliptic: looks okay to me 11:50:11 killed before you said so, kilobyte - or does he need attention again? 11:50:12 nothing else has armour apt 3? 11:50:15 03SamB * r9cbb32898a44 10/crawl-ref/docs/develop/gdb_tips.txt: Add some GDB tips to the developer documentation. 11:50:36 !apt armour 11:50:37 Armour: Ce: -3, DD: 1, DE: -2, DG: -1, Dr: -4*, Dr[black]: -4*, Dr[green]: -4*, Dr[grey]: -4*, Dr[mottled]: -4*, Dr[pale]: -4*, Dr[purple]: -4*, Dr[red]: -4*, Dr[white]: -4*, Dr[yellow]: -4*, DS: -1, Fe: 0, Gh: -1, Ha: -2, HE: -1, HO: 1, Hu: 0, Ke: 1, Ko: -2, LO: , MD: 3!, Mf: -3, Mi: 1, Mu: -2, Na: -2, Og: -2, OP: , SE: -2, Sp: -3, Tr: -2, Vp: -2 11:50:40 i guess not many races have positive armour apts at all 11:50:42 nothing else even has +2 11:50:51 hm 11:51:21 Napkin: heh no, I meant -- needs to be spanked in RL for wasting 36 hours of CPU time :p 11:51:38 ah :D 11:51:46 those apts look okay to me as well, anyway 11:51:48 just wondered 11:51:53 well, that's the fun about generic accounts.. the finger pointing! ;> 11:51:57 elliptic: an average would be quite unthematic 11:52:10 so we need to make up our minds on Evo etc.? 11:52:16 kilobyte: well, I was just putting it out there because dpeg suggested it 11:52:30 why would we want a copy of MDs rather than think of somethign that'd fit humanoid cows? 11:52:33 ah ok 11:52:47 well, do you have any idea what would fit humanoid cows? :) 11:53:12 bigness. 11:53:16 kilobyte: it is unthematic, but the result is actually decent. No averaging on magic apts, of course. 11:53:42 yeah, being extremely stupid is good 11:54:08 bigness suggests a good polearm apt though, unline MDs 11:54:40 what about giving them +2 for axes/maces/polearms 11:54:44 but not for the other skills? 11:54:46 stupidity would on the other hand suggest a bad apt on things that need finesse like Short Blades (and perhaps Long too) 11:54:49 elliptic: fine 11:54:51 the other weapon skills, that is 11:54:56 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:04 +0 for short/long blades 11:55:06 Keskitalo: Hi! We're just puring a species. 11:55:38 great Arm and SH to emphasize the niche 11:56:11 the XP apt might be better closer to MD 130 or HO 100, too 11:56:18 +2 or +3 for armour/shields, yeah 11:56:35 agreed that it doesn't need XP apt higher than 130 11:56:41 what about ranged attacks? 11:56:55 also we should keep this in mind: 11:57:02 !apt ho sort= 11:57:02 HO: Fighting: 2!, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 2!, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -2, Stab: 2, Shields: 1, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 1!, Splcast: -3, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 0, Evo: 0, Exp: 100 11:57:23 which could be tweaked also of course 11:57:28 yeah 11:57:32 so make new Mi better at ranged 11:57:33 but HO currently is good at melee/bad at ranged 11:57:36 HO seem to have no good ranged apts 11:57:37 yes 11:57:50 nowhere as good as MD or even Mi, though 11:57:52 otoh, orcish knights are pretty good with crossbows :) 11:57:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:20 kilobyte: right, the stuff with melee skills we just discussed is pretty similar, though 11:58:34 bad at blades, good at others... 11:58:54 hrm you're right 11:59:24 but for blades, we have the elves? 12:00:23 differences between HO and Mi: 12:01:00 HO has beogh, HO is better with spells (though still pretty bad currently), HO is better with invocations and gains levels quickly 12:01:58 Mi is generally better with melee (including armour/dodging/shields) and maybe has one good spell apt? 12:02:24 Mi has no good spell apt at all 12:02:42 for HO i'd suggest maybe bumping spellcasting to -2 and increasing their mp a bit, alongside the Mi stuff 12:03:05 marvinpa: I was thinking it might be good to increase their int a bit also 12:03:20 yeah, that too perhaps 12:03:25 since they really have terrible int 12:03:56 sounds good, especially as they're quite renowned for casting as monsters 12:04:00 dpeg: I meant for new Mi, not current Mi 12:04:13 I really don't want to see current Mi spell apts any more 12:04:19 ah, I thought you meant HO :O 12:04:34 no, in response to this: Mi has no good spell apt at all 12:04:36 -3 across the board is really boring, yeah 12:04:49 what's boring there, exactly? 12:04:49 which schools to pick? 12:05:08 the increasing int a bit was for HO 12:05:32 kilobyte: everything is equal 12:05:34 you're choosing between races, not schools. You don't get to weasel around. 12:05:48 what do you mean? 12:05:56 yeah, increasing int _a bit_ for HO would be good 12:06:10 as the bruisers but not totally stupid 12:06:30 trolls still tend to cast :p 12:06:44 trolls tend to be in a robe 12:06:45 (but mostly because they are terrible with armour) 12:07:08 and even trolls have some okay spell school apts 12:07:24 kilobyte: the idea is not to make new Mi a caster species 12:08:00 dpeg: yeah, that's what I mean 12:08:19 so what are cows good at casting at? 12:08:21 they're interesting because you can't cast spells well 12:08:22 about HO, they are currently tied with Mi for having the third-worst int in the game (only Gh and Tr are stupider) 12:08:35 elliptic: yes, doesn't make sense 12:08:35 kilobyte: look, very few people cast spells with MD currently 12:08:46 Gah this merge sucks! Especially since you buggers seem to have changed the scaling of armour and shield values by an extra precision value while I was gone! 12:08:48 Curse you 12:08:52 but at least they have a few options, and people occasionally do try MDFE or MDEE 12:09:12 elliptic: because unlike Mi they have terrible dodging, yeah 12:09:18 Cryp71c: :p 12:09:19 * dpeg fondly remembers a HDEE win in b26 =) 12:09:43 Why not simply move MD magic apts over? 12:10:03 and nerf from there? 12:11:22 kilobyte, just fight.cc (total disaster -_-), monster.cc and monster.h left 12:11:44 !apt Tr sort= 12:11:44 Tr: Fighting: -2*, Short: -2, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -1, Polearms: -2, Staves: -2, Slings: -4*, Bows: -4*, Xbows: -4*, Throw: -1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -5*, Stab: -2, Shields: -2, Traps: -4*, Unarmed: 0, Splcast: -4*, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -4*, Charms: -4*, Summ: -3*, Nec: -2, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -4*, Earth: -1, Poison: -3*, Inv: -2*, Evo: -3*, Exp: 150 12:12:25 I'd even prefer apts more like those... we don't even need anything positive, just some variance between -1 and -4 12:12:32 elliptic: okay 12:12:50 I think too many species have an inclination towards Earth. 12:13:16 Gh, Tr, DD do 12:13:31 yes 12:13:38 also, didn't dprf replace #ifdef DEBUG_DIAGNOSTIC mprfs ? 12:14:14 again, -1 is not that bad, so anyone who wants a reaver would use the best school 12:14:33 it's only the best one that really matters 12:14:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:14:55 Cryp71c: on a semi-consistent manner, only on the combat branch 12:14:57 well they don't have to be good at any of the elements, surely 12:15:03 just something other than -3 -3 -3 -3 -3 12:15:12 yay for dwarvicide 12:15:16 (for the other schools that is) 12:15:17 kilobyte, I'm surprised more people haven't latched onto it in trunk, its so much prettier. 12:16:20 sometimes when the #ifdef DEBUG_DIAGNOSTIC surrounds a block of code bigger than just the mprf, there isn't much point in replacing it with dprf 12:17:13 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:43 Zaba: in that case, yeah 12:19:31 got to go 12:19:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:53 you can do me a huge favour if I read my mails tomorrow and MD is gone :) 12:20:00 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:21:07 actually, we can remove them first and adjust HO/Mi later :p 12:21:59 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:52 back to apocalypserobin: beside iterators which are in a dire need of a rewrite, it's interesting that over 10% of CPU is used in std::map 12:32:55 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:23 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:33:26 hmm 12:33:47 is there a reason for vampires and demigods getting 1 extra max mp on character creation? 12:34:25 or is it just a leftover from when the hp/mp gain was redone 12:34:49 because sparkle 12:36:19 alrighty...down to just fight.cc 12:36:20 lol 12:38:55 marvinpa: Dg is supposed to have high MP and HP, and starting with more helps to deal with their poor exp apt 12:39:18 hm, i guess it sort of makes sense for Dg, yeah 12:41:29 most of the rationale is old, and I didn't want to upset balance 12:43:51 * kilobyte pushes the button and brings popcorn, waiting to watch ##crawl. 12:44:10 03kilobyte * r0edc7688ee17 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Give mountain dwarves the axe. 12:44:22 <3 12:44:34 AND MY AXE! 12:45:12 huzzah 12:46:50 maybe commit message was just too cryptic? ;) 12:50:39 impressive lack of reaction on ##crawl, yeah :) 12:51:53 i think its kind of bat that there is no commit comment 12:52:14 *bad 12:52:33 Poisonous chunks are coloured as contaminated (brown) if you have poison vulnerability (spider form) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4810) by hayenne 12:53:09 hey, I initially wrote "A minor cleanup of the species list" 12:54:41 was there much of a reaction to the hive removal? 12:55:00 not for about a day 12:55:12 people don't read commit messages in ##crawl 12:55:18 maybe people are just apathic or something, or spent all their anger on the food reform. 13:03:12 I think they're too busy wowing over zotdef right now ;-) 13:03:39 were these mountain dwarves playable ? 13:04:08 ? 13:04:32 * SamB has a dim memory of skipping past them to get to deep dwarves 13:04:37 theyre pretty much crawls best know species, and of the top winners 13:04:50 back in the day MDFi/MDBe were the most obvious combos 13:05:42 we need to get Henzell/Gretell to consistantly call out the gametype/map for sprint/zotdef ... 13:06:09 actually i won both of these in 0.8 trunk (MDFi) and 0.10 trunk (MDBe) 13:06:22 was quite fun, but could probably just have played a minotaur instead 13:06:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:35 which is why they're gone now 13:09:22 is it just me who did not win a single true MDFi[Oka] once? My only MDFi win ended up having to learn level 9 spells and use them instead due to an unlucky Shuffle card :p 13:09:38 sounds like fun 13:09:57 i don't think i have either 13:10:24 my only MD win was an EE of vehumet 13:11:21 its quaint. tab tab tab, zap wand, tab tab tab. I 15-runed with the MDBe (TSO switch), tomb was very very interesting (due to being crazily hard), the rest not so much. 13:11:30 shattering in dragon armour just barely, with stacked wizardry and +int 13:12:35 not using spells is interesting in itself, even if a bit limiting. good evo apt really helps. 13:13:28 alefury: not using spells is why I want Mi to not have a single spell school above -3 they have now 13:13:42 why? 13:13:55 I was always surprised by the odd stuff I found in the fight code, and I'm entertained to see that there are already a couple instances that are still in there..lol. 13:14:22 having apts better than -3 hardly forces you to use spells 13:14:33 MarvinPA: how come? In PDA I didn't need any wizardry to spam Summon Dragon. 13:14:41 giving the option is good. it will usually be better to not use spells, but having one or two usable apts would be good imo. 13:14:59 20 int makes it pretty hard to cast level 9 spells 13:15:06 and Str got shuffled to Dex so I had only natural Int IIRC 13:15:38 also it was at 16 spellcasting and 22 earth apparently 13:16:09 wasted 3469734689746 rations per cast though 13:16:59 kilobyte, seriously! If it werent for your precision change, this merge would've been much easier :( 13:17:07 on a wild tangent: is there an option anywhere to make 'c' just butcher a single corpse with no prompt, regardless of stacks and such? 13:17:28 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:30 Str 19, Int 25, Dex 33 13:17:31 it seems like there's an option for the opposite, to prompt if there's just a single corpse 13:17:57 but having played a few games with animate skeleton as my butchery tool i wish regular butchering was a single keypress like it 13:18:20 MarvinPA: wound be a nice addition. If there are multiples, butcher the freshest cleanest one that's not forbidden by your god. 13:18:31 yeah 13:18:42 some talk about MD in ##crawl. people seem indifferent 13:27:04 Ragdoll (L16 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster small abomination failed to pathfind to (39,56) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 13:27:14 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:17 missed it 13:27:21 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:34 ghrmblah damn pathfinding 13:28:12 just a small commit with a line in fight.cc, to make sure Cryp71c can't get out of combat too soon :) 13:28:20 did a crash just get here? i would like to see it 13:28:29 03kilobyte * r5955a17d11eb 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Clean up genuses of removed species. 13:28:29 03kilobyte * r9bf785e2be7d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Don't consider rPois- to be same as rPois+. 13:28:40 [14:27:10] Ragdoll (L16 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster small abomination failed to pathfind to (39,56) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 13:28:49 lol 13:28:53 scroll of summoning = bad 13:28:53 kilobyte, damn you! 13:29:12 Ragdoll: where did it get summoned? 13:30:28 in the loot bin 13:30:47 ah, yeah 13:30:47 ill see if it does the same outside it 13:30:51 that'd do it 13:31:04 maybe we should deactivate that for summons 13:31:33 i wonder if a summoned summon does the same 13:31:41 Ragdoll (L16 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster rat failed to pathfind to (39,56) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 13:31:43 -!- jle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:47 kilobyte, this wouldn't be half bad, but because 90% of fight.cc got moved to melee_attack.cc, the WHOLE FILE comes up as conflicted, so I have to go function by function to make sure you guys didn't do any little changes to stuff (like the precision shift) 13:31:47 yesssss. 13:32:14 kilobyte, is there a clever way to get a diff of the last like...4 months of changes on fight so I can disregard this whole conflict and manually make each commit to the appropriate code? 13:32:24 s/clever// (I know it can be done) 13:32:25 :P 13:32:32 Cryp71c: yes 13:32:46 git diff start..finish 13:32:49 Cryp71c: git diff COMMIT1 COMMIT2 -- fight.cc 13:33:00 or, yeah, his syntax is better 13:33:07 gah so I need to find a commit from 4 months ago 13:33:17 COMMIT1 is `git merge-base HEAD master` 13:33:21 COMMIT2 is master 13:33:36 oh...yeah that's what you showed me earlier. 13:33:36 thanks 13:33:46 merge-base will point you to the last common ancestor 13:34:13 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:34:15 you could also try merging smaller chunks of changes at a time... 13:34:23 yeah, good idea 13:34:34 too late for now, though 13:34:43 x _ small abomination (wandering) it doesnt seem to care much about crashing right now 13:34:44 he already did rest of merging 13:34:48 sorry in forward. 13:34:49 Ragdoll (L16 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster small abomination failed to pathfind to (39,56) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 13:34:56 true 13:35:10 Ragdoll: wandering, once it awakened it wants to go to the Orb 13:35:11 Ragdoll, lol 13:35:41 for some reason it resets my map too after a crash, so i had to read the magic mapping scroll 13:36:03 yes.. 13:36:04 oh, it also resets my plants and such i placed 13:36:16 I've seen such flakiness before :-( 13:36:19 and i guess the current monster spawn. 13:36:33 I don't think it resets that 13:36:44 but maybe! 13:37:00 but it does, apparantly! also all items return to its place so i can dupe items 13:38:00 we ought to add a "crash" command ... 13:38:54 kill! kill! kill! 13:39:07 (kill -ABRT or basically anything else) 13:40:49 i wonder if it reset/duped runes. 13:45:24 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:45:33 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:20 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:34 Ragdoll (L26 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 1378: invalid monster to place: Ignacio (499) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 13:49:40 >:( 13:50:20 ignacio spawned once before, too. 13:52:24 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:55:03 Ragdoll (L27 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-place.cc' at line 1378: invalid monster to place: Ignacio (499) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 14:03:45 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:41 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:38 Ragdoll (L27 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster lightning spire failed to pathfind to (39,56) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 14:16:47 you cant even move 14:17:42 that's probably why 14:19:16 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:18 kilobyte: oh, I made a thingy that can make debugging crawl easier: http://naesten.blogspot.com/2011/10/gdb-quickly-attach-to-only-instance-of.html 14:21:39 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:30:02 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:41 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 14:44:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:23:23 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:27:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:10 03MarvinPA * r8723275b0d31 10/crawl-ref/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Remove some options: show_beam, pickup_dropped 15:36:20 03MarvinPA * rf70a5619b3d5 10/crawl-ref/ (8 files in 3 dirs): Remove some more options: classic_hud, classic_item_colours 15:36:20 03MarvinPA * r749d90c8a69e 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-restr.cc: Don't recommend VpTm now that Fulsome/Evap are gone from the book 15:36:20 03MarvinPA * r477dc572746f 10/crawl-ref/source/ (aptitudes.h ng-setup.cc species.cc): Boost Kenku mp, and Hill Orc spellcasting, base int and mp slightly 15:38:01 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:08 03SamB * rcda7f728accf 10/crawl-ref/source/crawl-gdb.py: A couple of basic GDB pretty-printers. 15:38:10 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:39:48 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:54 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:31 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:40 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:35 hmm. 16:04:05 Ought to make kills by your traps approved of by (appropriate) deities 16:06:37 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:40 oh. 16:08:19 !tell SamB make some deities accept trap kills 16:08:19 SamB: OK, I'll let SamB know. 16:08:47 !tell SamB make zotdef/sprint milestones include map info 16:08:47 SamB: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:08:47 SamB: OK, I'll let SamB know. 16:09:09 !tell SamB also tell people about that neat git diff thing 16:09:10 SamB: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 16:09:10 SamB: OK, I'll let SamB know. 16:32:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:41 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4805 16:43:47 yay, more tiles 16:43:57 i really like most of them 16:45:06 ZChris13 (L26 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (0,0) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 16:46:48 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:46:57 ZChris13 (L26 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (0,0) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 16:47:07 ZChris13 (L26 DESu) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (0,0) (the Orb) (D:1 (ZotDef)) 16:47:09 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:16 Okay yeah it's crashing 16:51:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:44 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:41 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: n8] 17:07:00 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:05 !lg ZChris13 -log 17:09:05 602. ZChris13, XL1 DEFE, T:56: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/ZChris13/morgue-ZChris13-20111021-013318.txt 17:09:05 SamB: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:11:45 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:14 !lm ZChris13 -log 17:12:15 ZChris13, XL20 DEFE, T:71253 (milestone) has no matching game. 17:12:53 !lm ZChris13 error -log 17:12:53 Malformed argument: error 17:13:09 !lm ZChris13 milestone=error -log 17:13:09 No milestones for ZChris13 (milestone=error). 17:13:16 !lm ZChris13 milestone=crash -log 17:13:16 No milestones for ZChris13 (milestone=crash). 17:13:36 !lm ZChris13 zotdef crash -log 17:13:36 3. ZChris13, XL26 DESu, T:9971 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/ZChris13/crash-ZChris13-20111025-214703.txt 17:14:01 SamB: otherwise it tries to find main crawl games 17:14:15 oh, right 17:15:42 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:17:23 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:48 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:24:59 why don't these things have the map in em ? 17:29:54 !messages 17:29:54 (1/4) SamB said (2d 23h 19m 47s ago): add recipe for diff chunk headers to docs/develop/git/ 17:29:55 !messages 17:29:55 (1/3) SamB said (1h 21m 36s ago): make some deities accept trap kills 17:29:56 !messages 17:29:56 (1/2) SamB said (1h 21m 9s ago): make zotdef/sprint milestones include map info 17:29:57 !messages 17:29:57 (1/1) SamB said (1h 20m 47s ago): also tell people about that neat git diff thing 17:29:58 !messages 17:29:58 No messages for SamB. 17:35:15 SamB: what's that neat git diff thing? 17:35:45 I configured git to display useful hunk headers for .des files 17:38:04 ah :) yes, that'd certainly be neat 17:39:03 milestones for zotdef/sprint should specify the map in use (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4811) by SamB 17:52:29 -!- ais523 has quit [Quit: ragepart] 17:56:08 03SamB * rd536cb9807ae 10/crawl-ref/ (.gitattributes docs/develop/git/config.txt): Share my nice .des "git diff" hunk header secret. 18:00:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:10:40 hmm, skill trainability seems to be leaking across games 18:13:44 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:21:03 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:01 -!- chukamok has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:23 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 18:28:49 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:34 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:46:48 good night 18:46:52 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:40 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:00:56 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:08 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:19:12 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:00 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 19:28:02 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:55 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:09 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:53 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:22:24 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:47 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:31 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:13 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:13 July the Pandemonic (L14 DrTm) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 108: ZotDef: monster it failed to pathfind to (39,21) (the Orb) (D:1) 22:24:33 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:09 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:09 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli 22:34:42 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:21 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:27 -!- Pingas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:56 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:30 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:38:30 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 22:38:49 -!- Lohen has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:18 -!- greensnark has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:39:25 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:36 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:51 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:04 -!- Pingas has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:04 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:26 03kilobyte * rcf848d1079c4 10/crawl-ref/source/ (aptitudes.h species.cc): Adjust minotaur aptitudes. 22:54:36 03kilobyte * r5384ae019687 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mon-stuff.cc mon-stuff.h ouch.cc player.cc player.h tags.cc): Don't delete montier tracking yet. 22:55:14 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:57:38 kilobyte: I still don't buy the argument about equal spell apts being a good thing (since the spell schools vary so much... it isn't like trolls always use earth magic when they use magic, for instance), but the non-magic changes you made look pretty good to me 23:00:47 earth usually needs conj or tmut, and both fit bad to trolls 23:01:39 I guess it would be cool if we could make Mi a bit casty, what sort of magic leaning should they have? destructive or supportive? 23:01:39 it also isn't like MD used fire or earth that much... more likely to get charms or tloc 23:02:03 I'm not even campaigning for any apts above -2 :P just not the flat -3 23:02:21 so we may have them worse than -3 23:02:40 st_: that's the whole point -- not being casty at all 23:02:44 I'd be happy with some of the -3s being -2s and some being -4s 23:03:09 st_: HO just got made more casty, so I think it is okay for Mi to be quite non-casty 23:03:20 true, true 23:03:29 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:36 I do think we should look at fire apts sometimes and decide whether anyone should have better than +1 23:03:42 (sorry for the bug) 23:05:51 a salamander race! 23:06:08 <|amethyst> Lava Dwarves! 23:06:32 some possible candidates for -2 for Mi: earth, tmut, fire, tloc 23:07:00 some possible candidates for -4: air, charms 23:07:06 |amethyst: <3 23:07:26 -5 hex, nec 23:07:51 +1 phillips 23:08:01 -5 seems a trifle excessive somehow :P 23:08:29 * due excesses. 23:08:46 !apt fire 23:08:47 Fire: Ce: -1, DD: -1, DE: 1, DG: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: 0, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 1, Dr[pale]: 1, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 2!, Dr[white]: -2, Dr[yellow]: 0, DS: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: -2, Ha: 0, HE: 0, HO: 0, Hu: 0, Ke: 1, Ko: 0, LO: , MD: 2!, Mf: -3*, Mi: -3*, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -3*, OP: , SE: 1, Sp: -2, Tr: -3*, Vp: -2 23:09:07 by the way, I propose give DE +1 earth (from 0) and Vp also +1 (from -1), reasons: DE have +1 for the other elements and it's weird they have lower earth considering they are "deep" and Vp goes well with earth-stabber playstyle 23:09:29 !apt kobold 23:09:30 Ko: Air: 0, Armour: -2, Axes: -1, Bows: -1, Charms: -2, Conj: -1, Xbows: 2!, Dodge: 2, Earth: 0, Evo: 2, Exp: 100, Fighting: 1, Fire: 0, Hexes: 0, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: -2, Maces: 0, Nec: 0, Poison: 0, Polearms: -2, Shields: -2, Short: 3!, Slings: 2, Splcast: 0, Stab: 2, Staves: -1, Stealth: 3, Summ: 0, Throw: 3!, Tloc: 0, Tmut: -1, Traps: 0, Unarmed: 0 23:09:32 !apt halfling 23:09:33 Ha: Air: 1, Armour: -2, Axes: -1, Bows: 2, Charms: 1, Conj: -2, Xbows: -1, Dodge: 2, Earth: 0, Evo: 1, Exp: 100, Fighting: -1, Fire: 0, Hexes: -1, Ice: 0, Inv: 0, Long: 0, Maces: -2, Nec: -2, Poison: -1, Polearms: -3*, Shields: 1, Short: 3!, Slings: 4!, Splcast: -2, Stab: 0, Staves: -2, Stealth: 3, Summ: -1, Throw: 3!, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Traps: 0, Unarmed: -2* 23:09:50 What does the asterisk mean? 23:09:51 if we want to increase someone's fire apt (we certainly don't have to do so), I had this suggestion of giving Ke +2 fire and +2 conj instead of +1 and +3 23:10:01 worst of races for that apt 23:10:30 st_: sounds good 23:10:40 st_: dpeg was already complaining about too many races being unusually good at earth, so I'm a little uncertain about Vp 23:10:46 DE being +1 earth makes sense though 23:11:12 well, only DD, SE and Gh have more than 0 right now 23:11:37 <|amethyst> Tr is unusually high *for Tr* 23:11:47 bmh: * means (tied for) worst value across races, ! is best. 23:12:25 <|amethyst> I always thought Air was more overrepresented than earth 23:12:34 !apt earth 23:12:34 Earth: Ce: -1, DD: 3!, DE: 0, DG: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: -2, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 0, Dr[pale]: 0, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 0, Dr[white]: 0, Dr[yellow]: 0, DS: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: 1, Ha: 0, HE: -2, HO: 0, Hu: 0, Ke: -3*, Ko: 0, LO: , MD: 2, Mf: -2, Mi: -3*, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -3*, OP: , SE: 1, Sp: -1, Tr: -1, Vp: -1 23:12:58 DD, Gh, Tr are earthy 23:13:00 !apt air 23:13:00 Air: Ce: -1, DD: -3, DE: 1, DG: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: 2, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 0, Dr[pale]: 1, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 0, Dr[white]: 0, Dr[yellow]: 0, DS: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: -2, Ha: 1, HE: 2, HO: -2, Hu: 0, Ke: 3!, Ko: 0, LO: , MD: -2, Mf: -2, Mi: -3, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -3, OP: , SE: 1, Sp: -1, Tr: -4*, Vp: 0 23:13:10 I've complained in the past about DE having 0 earth 23:13:15 Ha, HE, Ke are airy 23:13:18 and sp 23:13:29 (this is relative to other elements for that race) 23:13:33 !apt fire 23:13:33 Fire: Ce: -1, DD: -1, DE: 1, DG: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: 0, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 1, Dr[pale]: 1, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: 2!, Dr[white]: -2, Dr[yellow]: 0, DS: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: -2, Ha: 0, HE: 0, HO: 0, Hu: 0, Ke: 1, Ko: 0, LO: , MD: 2!, Mf: -3*, Mi: -3*, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -3*, OP: , SE: 1, Sp: -2, Tr: -3*, Vp: -2 23:13:34 <|amethyst> sp is tied 23:13:40 oh, right 23:13:43 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:13:48 <|amethyst> and DE is more airy than earthy 23:13:55 for fire, we don't have much of anyone 23:13:57 <|amethyst> but not anymore I guess 23:14:09 well, I need to vanish for a month and a half -- the ai challenge is on (Zannick is running it) 23:14:12 |amethyst: DE also equally good at fire and ice 23:14:22 !apt ice 23:14:23 Ice: Ce: -1, DD: -1, DE: 1, DG: -1, Dr: 0, Dr[black]: 0, Dr[green]: 0, Dr[grey]: 0, Dr[mottled]: 0, Dr[pale]: 0, Dr[purple]: 0, Dr[red]: -2, Dr[white]: 2!, Dr[yellow]: 0, DS: -1, Fe: -1, Gh: 1, Ha: 0, HE: 0, HO: 0, Hu: 0, Ke: -1, Ko: 0, LO: , MD: -2, Mf: 1, Mi: -3*, Mu: -2, Na: 0, Og: -3*, OP: , SE: 1, Sp: -2, Tr: -3*, Vp: 0 23:14:30 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 23:14:39 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:50 I guess Gh is also icy, as is Mf 23:14:50 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:00 does the manual still say that DE is good particularly good at earth/nec or whatever it was? since its earth apt isn't noteworthy 23:15:07 surprisingly few for ice 23:15:16 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:22 but really, we have quite a few more air or earth specializers than fire or ice 23:15:33 <|amethyst> yeah 23:15:41 <|amethyst> fire needs something with MD gone 23:16:22 I'd say: Vp earth -1 -> 0, DE earth 0 -> 1, Ke fire 1 -> 2, Ke conj 3 -> 2 23:16:32 <|amethyst> hm 23:16:45 <|amethyst> that still wouldn't give a "fire race" 23:16:53 <|amethyst> since Ke are even more heavily into air 23:16:59 yeah but it's a good change nonetheless 23:17:10 space dwarves! 23:17:16 right, I'm not sure we have any good candidates for a race that likes fire the best out of the elements 23:17:28 unless we want to make fire-themed minotaurs... 23:17:33 <|amethyst> SE and DE are both all-round elementalists 23:17:54 could give it to HO? 23:18:09 SamB_: don't people get banned from forums for even mentioning Squats? 23:18:23 giving HO +1 fire -1 ice could be okay, yeah 23:18:23 kilobyte: that is irrelevant 23:18:27 I do not use the forums 23:18:29 fire race: lava orcs 23:18:34 all problems: solved 23:19:41 SamB_: neither do I, but my point is that the game company that currently owns WH40k hates the idea so much 23:20:13 I hardly even know what that is 23:20:23 what do they have to do with anything ? 23:20:27 kobolds are lacking an elemental slant, they could have a bit of fire possibly 23:20:38 monqy: problems: Beogh, annihilating everything with no effort if you can get max temp, etc 23:20:55 SamB_: you said "space dwarves" 23:21:29 SamB_: and Squats in WH40k were the only space dwarves in a major game 23:22:03 st_: they have enough darts of fire :P 23:22:11 er ... ninja pirates ? 23:25:39 lol ninja pirates 23:25:54 Shops buying items and ninja pirates! dpeg would murder us all :) 23:26:39 or ... ninja pirate *jedis*! 23:26:58 in star trek uniforms 23:31:24 -!- SamB_ has quit [*.net *.split] 23:31:24 -!- krel has quit [*.net *.split] 23:33:31 -!- krel has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:26 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:36 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:09 -!- Pingas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:04 what about DS liking fire more than other elements? 23:47:43 right now it doesn't favour any elements (in magic it has apts 0 for spc, conj, hexes, summ, poison, -1 for everything else) 23:47:46 they used to and then Eronarn complained about it 23:49:08 also since they have both fire and ice mutations it's strange in the way (the ice muts suck when you use fire spells) 23:49:42 that's true 23:51:04 I guess I just like the idea of a race that's good at fire and doesn't have really low hp! 23:51:05 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:01 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:52:02 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli