00:00:11 03dolorous * r3d597c8bedc6 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Add whitespace fixes. 00:00:46 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1287-g3d597c8 (32) 00:01:14 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:33 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1287-g3d597c8 00:36:14 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:04 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:48 Request for "Easy Ignore" - ability to press o when prompted y/n for ignore on autotravel (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4750) by XuaXua 00:49:27 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:27 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 00:49:27 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:02 hi 01:35:00 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:23 -!- bmh is now known as bmh_away 02:04:11 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:34 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:23 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:11:27 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:11:43 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:40 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1286-g7959c50 (32) 02:26:20 UnIDs Enhancers spoiled by spell power display (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4751) by smock 02:28:07 03kilobyte * rbbf11a8b9b4d 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: "make LTO=y" as a shorthand to enable link time optimizations. 02:35:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:50:47 !tell galehar is there any use for practise() and all related complexity left? 02:50:48 kilobyte: OK, I'll let galehar know. 02:50:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:08 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:01 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:24 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:42 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 03:18:58 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:06 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:09 -!- raskol has quit [Changing host] 03:20:09 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:38 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:38 hi 03:58:50 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 04:10:36 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 04:26:12 moin! 04:26:12 Napkin: You have 10 messages. Use !messages to read them. 04:32:05 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:15 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:42 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:43 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:17:40 -!- mikee_ has quit [Client Quit] 05:18:45 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:29 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:26:18 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:43:19 Ragdoll (L3 MuEE) (D:1) 05:43:35 !lm Ragdoll type=crash -log 05:43:35 23. Ragdoll, XL3 MuEE, T:1523 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Ragdoll/crash-Ragdoll-20111015-104316.txt 05:56:14 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:58:03 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:14 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:45 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:51 -!- Varsovie_crawl has left ##crawl-dev 06:13:28 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:18:13 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:03 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:53 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:46:59 all skills at 27 (wizmode): "You need to enable at least one skill." 06:52:15 03kilobyte * r46457efa103a 10/crawl-ref/source/skill_menu.cc: Allow maxxed players to exit the skills screen. 06:52:17 03kilobyte * r6a565d312e66 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-you.cc: Don't set useless skills on &A 06:53:38 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:15 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:48 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:58 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:09 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 08:08:56 -!- Torokasi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:42 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:04 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:48 let the font support utf-8 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4752) by noword 08:20:00 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:27 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:04:04 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:25 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:44 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [] 09:15:46 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:23 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:06 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:29 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:02 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:58 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:19:55 kilobyte: I recall galehar fixing the level 27 skill bug a few months ago. Guess it's a perennial. 10:19:57 -!- bmh_away is now known as bmh 10:21:23 bmh: it was a new one, this time caused by an useless skill recognized as "not maxxed yet" 10:24:19 ah-ha! 10:38:11 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:55 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:52 kilobyte: what happens when you re-race? 10:42:18 "re-race"? not sure what do you mean 10:43:08 the change-your-race wizard command 10:43:35 does that screw with skills? 10:44:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:29 it does, but I fixed this one before 10:45:07 you don't get skills back if you convert to a race with a skill useless then back, but that's probably not worth it 10:45:22 indeed 10:45:38 at least you don't end up with skills you can't easily zap 10:47:42 there's a weird thing about re-racing 10:48:08 where abilities like bottle blood and restoration and recharging keep a sort of slot? 10:48:20 gah, can't remember what it had to do with the 53 abilities crash 10:51:07 well, I bet it would be easiest to repro with Zot Defence! 10:51:41 yeah that's the main way to get that 10:52:14 all five evokables, delayed fireball, ely, zot defense abilities, all ds ability mutations on a draconian or something 10:54:44 whose idea was it to give iskenderun credit for ood? I don't think it's actually referenced in-game anywhere, aside from someone deciding to give it to his wizlab statues 10:56:42 Wensley, it's been isky's since it's been first added 10:57:29 is that ever mentioned in-game, though? the spell description certainly doesn't say anything about it 10:57:57 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:05 err, s/since/when/ 10:58:21 ah, okay 10:59:06 I ask because someone on the tavern has put together some spellbooks that cover all the "named wizard" spells, and I was wondering if ood should be included 11:01:19 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:40 <|amethyst> Wensley: it doesn't appear to be mentioned in-game 11:03:01 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:16 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:31 -!- blabber_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:04:34 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:18 <|amethyst> "Iskenderun" only appears in: the name of IMB; the description of altars of Vehumet; a cantrip of conjurer player ghosts; and his wizlab 11:06:43 it used to be called iood, but renamed to ood i think? 11:06:45 <|amethyst> and as a potential name on randbooks 11:06:55 <|amethyst> it's still IOOD in the source 11:07:48 <|amethyst> ah, yes 11:08:05 <|amethyst> When added in 0cebeb43, it was SPELL_IOOD, "Iskenderun's Orb of Destruction" 11:09:29 <|amethyst> it was renamed by kilobyte in 8d1ebe62 because '"IOOD" is too long' 11:10:15 <|amethyst> giving Lee the honour of having the longest spell name 11:11:34 <|amethyst> (Iskenderun and Borgnjor are tied for second place) 11:14:55 we could add an Iskenderun vault :) 11:15:04 <|amethyst> bmh: there is one 11:15:07 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:08 <|amethyst> bmh: his wizlab 11:15:15 |amethyst: oh. Is he there? 11:15:40 <|amethyst> as a statue with IMB and IOOD 11:15:48 ouch 11:15:57 bmh, the wizards themselves are purposefully not represented in person in their respective wizlabs 11:17:19 Zaba: we haven't a Borgnjor lab! 11:17:46 <|amethyst> bmh: it was removed 11:17:51 ??wizards without wizlabs 11:17:52 wizards without wizlabs[1/1]: Lehudib, Leda, Lee, Alistair, Ozocubu, Borgnjor, Maxwell, Olgreb 11:17:55 <|amethyst> as "unbalanced and unfinished" 11:18:00 that lab had a whole bunch of vampires in it 11:18:08 most of those have a name and an entry in wizlab.des 11:18:09 oh. That's no fun 11:18:11 but no actual vault 11:18:22 <|amethyst> then there are wizlabs without wizards 11:18:28 there actually used to be an ozocubu vault but it was also removed 11:18:48 <|amethyst> since Eringya no longer has a spell, and Doroklohe's spell is monster-only 11:18:54 Would it be unfashionable to have a mini-vault containing Borgnjor's skeleton? 11:19:21 hah, the wizlab.des also lists cekugob, botono, ukta, and the alchemist 11:19:49 <|amethyst> Ukta? 11:20:02 <|amethyst> oh, hat of the Bear Spirit 11:20:08 whoa, what spell did eringya have? 11:20:18 suprising boquet 11:20:31 ??eringyas surprising bouquet 11:20:31 eringyas surprising bouquet[1/2]: From a very old version of Crawl: "Eringya's Surprising Bouquet: This spell transmutes any wooden items in the caster's grasp into a bouquet of beautiful flowers." 11:20:40 hahaha 11:20:42 sticks to flowers 11:21:53 "This trove needs 376 flowers to open. Give it the items? 11:22:50 Torokasi: Worst anti-feature ever? 11:23:07 I thought it was bad enough to find a trove that wanted 11 !magic 11:23:28 you would only need 376 arrows 11:23:38 Alistair's wizlab needs to happen 11:23:41 Disco hall Mk. 2 11:24:50 RichardHawk, so make it? :P 11:25:00 haha. 11:25:08 perhaps I should look into how to make vaults 11:33:19 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 11:33:45 mmm. so should I, but I tend to do boring stuff in setups like that so eeh. 11:34:49 <|amethyst> fill the entire place with noxious clouds 11:35:12 the only wizlab I made was zonguldrok's, and it seems like it keeps slightly pissing people off :P 11:35:14 <|amethyst> or clouds of mislead 11:35:47 i think zonguldrok is okay 11:35:57 just a bit boring to clear out all the zombies 11:36:16 cant have them in my back while im fighting an ancient lich 11:36:23 and it takes a while for them to wake up 11:36:28 HangedMan: do you build with debugging symbols? 11:36:37 what 11:37:00 I am still terrible and tiles-ing 11:37:20 alefury, well, I was trying to give it the theme of a quiet graveyard. 11:38:08 alefury, the original idea was even that spawns out of los are more frequent than in it, not sure at which point that got reversed 11:38:43 (that wouldn't work too well unless you could somehow force zombies to stalk the out-of-los player, anyway) 11:47:02 well, I was just going to say that you'd probably find you.ability_letter_table[] to be of interest w.r.t. that 53-ability-bug 11:49:09 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:49:34 mmmmm 11:49:36 * SamB wonders how hard it would be to run the NT port of crawl in DOS 11:51:46 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:04 <|amethyst> er? 11:52:37 |amethyst: what? 11:52:48 <|amethyst> oh, recompiling it you mean 11:52:58 <|amethyst> for djgpp or something else with a dos-extender 11:53:07 <|amethyst> s/for/with/ 11:53:29 actually I was thinking of http://www.japheth.de/HX.html 11:54:07 <|amethyst> oh, nice 11:54:35 <|amethyst> I did not realise that anything like that existed 11:55:01 <|amethyst> WINE for DOS :) 11:55:19 <|amethyst> well, it's API-level not ABI, but still 12:04:04 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:38 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:45 -!- Xiberia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:07:22 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:22 it is ABI-level, actually 12:09:23 well, I mean, you *can* link/patch executables specially to make them auto-load it, but that's not required 12:10:35 Though, to be honest, haven't actually tried it myself 12:11:24 Mu_: oh. 12:11:41 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:00 Mu_: I found something that might help you! 12:13:13 In INSTALL.txt 12:13:35 in "Building on Windows (MinGW)" section 12:13:41 the last bullet point 12:15:22 suggests deleting /mingw/bin/sdl-config 12:15:40 oh hey 12:15:47 cool i'll try it 12:16:45 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:05 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:05 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 12:17:05 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:00 looks like it's working now :) 12:27:52 So, any OSX users about? 12:28:08 03dolorous * r0aa42fa656e8 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-gear.cc: Fix Mantis 4732. 12:31:28 !seen mumra 12:31:29 I last saw mumra at Tue Oct 11 03:08:31 2011 UTC (4d 14h 22m 57s ago) quitting with message Ping timeout: 248 seconds. 12:32:03 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:53 * SamB wishes there was a way to tell make to run some commands at the end iff it has failed 12:39:20 Mu_: oh, cool, btw! 12:39:29 SamB: You could just wrap it in a bash script 12:39:56 well, yeah, but then we'd need to change all the documentation *and* get the users to actually use it somehow 12:40:17 You could have make invoke the bash script, which in turn invokes make :) 12:40:27 that sounds awful 12:40:30 Yes. 12:41:10 it is not *not* worth it just to suggest that the user look at INSTALL.txt in case of error 12:43:13 in my opinion it's fine to assume that users who want to build from source are able to deduce that it is a good idea to read INSTALL.txt :) 12:43:55 now as i read it this sentence sounds weird, but i guess you get the idea. 12:43:56 speaking of building from source, I can't do it on OSX 10.7 anymore. 12:48:00 blabber: Well, how come I didn't notice Mu_'s problem was covered until just now? He could have had it solved days ago if one of us had thought to look! 12:48:05 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:57 i have not tracked Mu_s attempts but thought he checked INSTALL.txt 12:50:45 teh first thing i do before starting the freebsd port of a new release is to diff INSTALL.txt and makefile 12:53:00 well, some of us are absentminded 12:55:56 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:56:49 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:21 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:41 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:07 03SamB * rfd48d527617c 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Remind people (me, anyway) to consult INSTALL.txt about build errors. 13:06:17 03SamB * r5ddc8953661b 10/crawl-ref/INSTALL.txt: Add a tip for Windows users with separate MSYS and git installs. 13:06:26 heh 13:07:01 I wanted the commit message not to sound condescending ;-) 13:07:21 Condescending commit messages are the best. 13:07:41 i was looking in /docs/develop/git because i forgot install.txt existed, bit stupid of me :P 13:07:57 For example: "Reverting terrible code. Sanity Loss: 1/1d6" 13:08:16 I meant, I didn't want it to sound condescending to *users* 13:08:28 I'm less worried about offending the other devs ;-) 13:08:46 also it was funny 13:10:16 The venom in my commit messages is typically inversely proportional to the work ethic of those with commit access :) 13:14:31 bmh: Testing your venom-related patch (the 90% one), it seems like I can't get poisoned by a snake in melee (human with ring or rP), while naga spits seem to work right. 13:16:01 Keskitalo: Want me to add some debug spam? 13:17:24 bmh: probably a good idea 13:18:29 Well, I'm testing this standing in the middle of a bee swarm, some should get through by now. 13:19:34 ok, I found it -- I'm applying poison reduction twice 13:19:57 Ok, great! :) 13:20:17 Wow, the targeting for cloud spells is pretty nice in tiles.. 13:20:41 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 13:21:46 Keskitalo: I moved the poison reduction call directly into poison_player 13:21:58 (And forgot to remove the external reductions!) 13:23:12 I found an error in a vault yesterday, a ^ (trap) got added to it (not by me) in an area with custom floor tiles, but no tile is defined for the trap, so it stands out 13:23:12 SamB: -j makes your message not print very nicely. 13:23:38 I'm wondering, should I just bug someone to fix it, or should I post this to mantis? It's so ridiculously trivial (it can be fixed by changing one character) 13:24:00 evilmike: Bug me! 13:24:04 alright! 13:24:33 In float.des, evilmike_marble_ring. Just change the ^ to a -. There's not supposed to be a trap there 13:25:09 Line 1738 13:25:44 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:48 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 13:27:53 If a player resists the poison damage from curare, should it still do hp damage? 13:30:00 <|amethyst> either that or make resisting the asphyx effect a separate chance, I think 13:30:08 03Keskitalo * rcde49cf01ee4 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des: Remove a trap from evilmike_marble_ring that's not supposed to be there (evilmike). 13:30:19 thank you 13:30:21 <|amethyst> no need to buff curare 13:30:39 evilmike: No problem! 13:30:49 What happened in the 100% resistance world? 13:31:46 <|amethyst> Keskitalo: if (player_res_poison() > 0) return (false); 13:32:04 curare seems pretty toothless now 13:32:25 i forget exactly what changed but it generally kinda sucks 13:32:33 it changed? 13:32:46 i think because you don't get affected if your ac reduces the damage it deals to zero 13:32:48 Except when a stupid kobold has it on like D:5. 13:32:51 which happens almost always 13:33:21 that's lame 13:33:35 that should be changed 13:33:54 I didn't know about the AC thing, I thought the main change was that rPois blocks it or something like that 13:34:04 that too, yeah 13:34:22 <|amethyst> 2af12ea4 "Per KiloByte, have poison resistance confer curare resistance in its entirery [...] since curare is a poison" 13:34:34 <|amethyst> from last November 13:34:47 it's still very good vs monsters 13:34:49 huh 13:35:06 oh, well, as long as it still works for players! 13:35:18 ??curare 13:35:19 curare[1/3]: A type of poison that will slow you, poison you, and do large impact damage (called asphyxiation). To avoid it you can use stealth and eXamine to avoid being in any blowgun wielding creature's line of fire for too long. Poison resistance prevents the poisoning and asphyxiation, as well as the slowing (being undead will too). 13:35:42 ok 13:35:44 ??curare[2] 13:35:44 curare[2/3]: Use scrolls of enchant weapon on curare to make it last longer before disappearing! 13:35:50 ??curare[3] 13:36:23 it's definitely doing nothing if your ac prevents the damage, yep 13:36:30 curare[3/3]: According to ogaz, you should carry curare around with you so that you can forget to use it and then feel like an idiot when you die. 13:36:36 I suppose we could argue that as rP won't be infallible any more, curare's asphyxiation effect can go through rP (but not immunity?) 13:37:03 <|amethyst> I like the idea of doing three separate checks 13:37:15 <|amethyst> so you're likely to avoid some but not all of the bad effects with rPois 13:37:49 why is it that autopickup automatically picks it up? 13:37:58 SamB: Because it's dangerous! 13:38:03 A kobold might find it and kill you. 13:38:05 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:14 oh, is that the actual reason? 13:38:17 that is true of a lot of things and i still don't know why curare is an exception, really 13:38:27 I thought maybe there was a way to slip and fall on it somehow! 13:38:32 <|amethyst> settings/autopickup_exceptions.txt:# curare is always dangerous on the floor 13:39:12 seems like the kind of thing players should be able to learn pretty easily, anyway 13:40:19 if you look at how curare used to be, the autopickup thing probably makes more sense 13:40:32 when it was possible to use needles without blowguns, were monsters able to do that? 13:57:24 As I have the code written, if rP causes you to block all of the poison from curare, you don't suffer the other ill-effects. 13:58:04 Yeah, we can change separately later if we decide so. 14:02:57 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:03:59 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:14 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:43 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:10:22 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:26 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:43 !seen galehar 14:10:43 I last saw galehar at Mon Oct 10 23:39:36 2011 UTC (4d 19h 31m 7s ago) quitting with message Remote host closed the connection. 14:12:48 !seen Napkin 14:12:49 I last saw Napkin at Sat Oct 15 09:26:12 2011 UTC (9h 46m 37s ago) saying moin! on ##crawl-dev. 14:12:55 hey david 14:13:07 Hi! Cannot log onto cdo?! 14:13:17 which service? 14:13:33 telnet crawl.develz.org 345 (I am using putty( 14:14:22 I get: "This is not a shell account. Do not try to execute arbitrary commands." 14:14:34 heh 14:14:41 try again, you hacker ;) 14:15:13 fixed :) 14:15:14 Wat warn da los? 14:15:36 i tried something, but it doesn't seem to work 14:16:20 i did that this morning though 14:16:26 and you're the first to tell me 14:17:08 cdo is used by many players... they didn't seem to have this problem 14:17:25 probably most are using ssh, which didn't show that problem? 14:17:36 yes 14:21:34 und sonst? alles frisch? 14:23:20 Ja! 14:23:44 War gestern seit langer Zeit mal wieder im Konzert, mit Frau! (Geht fast nie, wegen Kindern und Pendeln.) 14:23:56 oh cool :) 14:24:13 hört sich entspannt an 14:26:35 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 14:27:33 dpeg: Noise music concert? 14:28:40 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:28:41 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 14:28:48 Keskitalo: no, had my wife along! 14:29:19 Keskitalo: was a leftist brass band 14:29:46 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:49 leftist? 14:31:04 Level annotations for portal vaults persist (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4753) by Qwertycoatl 14:31:11 Bolschewistische Kurkapelle Schwarz-Rot 14:31:25 wtf :) 14:31:56 they got a wikipedia article O_O 14:32:04 yes, I am not joking 14:32:45 ofc you're not joking, you're a German ;-) 14:36:32 dpeg: Wow. 14:37:52 Too bad my historian friend with an obsession about bolshevism is not online, I must remember to relay the existence of this band to her. 14:37:55 bhaak: hm, reading the article, I had no idea they have two sections. Which one we might have seen? 14:38:24 Keskitalo: well, the name was coined 1986 in the GDR. This is not part of the serious stuff. 14:39:27 dpeg: they don't say in the article what different style they play, so you can't know 14:39:28 Keskitalo: playing a pure ranger of Fedhas right now, btw. In one of your ice caves. 14:39:33 bhaak: yes 14:40:04 ooh, nice.. 14:40:24 dpeg: lol, have you seen the links to both sections in the weblinks? only difference in the urls is a "-" :-D 14:40:43 mmm, diaper time 14:42:21 bhaak: yes, there seem to have surprisingly little animosities. In my experience, when leftist groups split, they fight to death afterwards :) 14:43:54 dpeg: isn't that not often the case? little-endian vs. big-endian :) 14:44:19 kilobyte: you know, it might be a good idea to use some of the stuff from "valgrind.h" in DEBUG and/or ASSERTS builds... 14:44:50 Keskitalo: died. Reason was lack of fruits, not lack of ammo, though. 14:45:38 The "ranged combat is unviable" apologists can shove runed arrows up their greased asses. 14:48:28 * SamB hopes they shove them up feathered-end-first 14:49:27 where do people say ranged combat is unviable? Or do they just say that about fedhas? 14:49:41 SamB: there was a recent forum thread about RC sucking. We're getting these complaints since ever, only that RC got buffs in every freaking release. 14:50:02 Fedhas is definitely the weak link of the combo there 14:50:10 evilmike: no, they talk about RC in general. I believe they think that RC means "shoot everything with the bow" or so. 14:50:27 oh 14:50:30 that's interesting. ranged combat has always seemed very powerful to me, I just avoid the playstyle because it's more micromanagement than melee or spells 14:50:45 what about slings and throwing and magics? 14:50:47 and wands? 14:50:50 RichardHawk: how so? Fedhas is strong if you know what to do (and get some fruits). 14:50:50 RC is probably overpowered at the high end, but like UC and nemelex, it's not really a big deal 14:51:20 I remember having a kohu with 27 crossbows and zero slaying struggling in zot 14:51:27 dpeg: In ascending a MfSk of Fedhas recently I found that the only ability I was using with any regularity was spores -> hyperactive ballistos. 14:51:35 Everything else was too high cost for too little payoff. 14:51:42 I saved fruits for Lair 8 and Zot 5. 14:51:55 RichardHawk: I've seen Zot getting trivialised with oklobs, this is not too little payoff. 14:52:17 Mm 14:52:19 The mushrooms have been very useful to me, too. 14:52:19 Rephrase 14:52:35 Oh! Mushrooms certainly pull their weight for Lair/Orc phase of the game 14:52:54 I just found that I wasn't getting to use abilities as often as I'd want out of a god like that. 14:53:14 And of course without corpses Fedhas falls apart in extended. 14:53:49 evilmike: I think the shooting interface is quite smooth, it currently suffers from ( and ) going through items not fitting the wielded launcher. Without that, it'd be really slick. 14:54:03 RichardHawk: yes, but we're not talking extended here. 14:54:43 dpeg: it's fairly good, yeah. I just meant to say, it's more work than other options. With spells your ammo regenerates, no need to pick it up, enchant it, carry around a bunch of stacks, etc 14:54:43 And if you don't have luck in getting sultanas/grapes, the fruit-abilities are extremely limited 14:54:47 This might be a good opportunity to direct attention to this idea: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:pan#pandemonium_to_other_realms 14:55:16 Unless there is a special case in food acquirement for Fedhas. I don't know whether or not that is true. 14:55:26 there is, yes 14:55:32 you get lots of fruits 14:55:47 evilmike: there was a time when ammo stacks didn't merge :) 14:55:57 and racial ammo :P 14:56:02 and that 14:56:07 dpeg: was that only un-ID'd ammo stacks? 14:56:08 Keskitalo: I read that. It's an interesting idea, I think I like it more if it's just two realms though. You could flavour it as a (literal) holy war between demons and angels, with various gates between the two realms 14:56:13 Keskitalo: yes, I saw that (of course). Not sure yet what to think of it... will comment later. 14:56:22 Keskitalo: also, the dwarf theme would be way too easy for extended endgame unless you add _really_ nasty dwarf enemies 14:56:33 The contents of which had not previously been stacked? 14:56:57 I like the idea of a holy Pan lord because that shows the twistedness of the holy/evil "distinction". Dwarves seem to mundane for Pan, imo. 14:57:18 SamB: yes, if you found several un-ided +1 arrow stacks, they would not merge. 14:57:24 pearl dragons having some of the strongest raw damage and what distinguishes that from fire storm reallllly 14:57:32 kilobyte got me interested in holy pan levels. I have one idea I'd like to work on some time, where zin has imprisoned a pan lord 14:57:48 dpeg: but if you IDed them, would they merge then? 14:57:53 I'm thinking with a special angel where when it dies, the prison falls 14:58:15 oh, and did the arrows restack after being fired? 14:58:18 SamB: sure, but you'd carry very many arrow stacks, also because of racial ammo 14:58:49 evilmike: so there'd be no holy pan lord? 14:58:53 I had some ideas for a more distinctly chaotic and less demonic variation of pan using enemies that were more wild and less actively malevolent but it was going to be a portal vault 14:58:56 yeah, that does sound pretty annoying 14:59:03 or is the resident Pan lord twisted according to Zin's rules`? 14:59:03 dpeg: it would be a normal pan lord imprisoned by holies 14:59:12 magically merging stacks is nice 14:59:16 I support the holy pan lord idea 14:59:22 * bmh grumbles about the cruel mixture of object oriented and non-object oriented code 14:59:23 the idea is like, zin has decided to punish this particular pan lord for some reason, by imprisoning it forever 14:59:24 less black & whiteness in crawl 14:59:28 evilmike: ah, that is along the classical good-vs-bad lines. Also fine (because of Zin) 15:00:07 bmh: what in particular? 15:00:12 wensley I was working on that toooooo 15:00:19 SamB: player_res_poison() and ::res_poison() 15:00:23 HangedMan: keep coding it 15:00:28 nasty 15:00:34 I hate it when I run into stuff like that 15:00:39 stasis mangler uses lawful stuff but it's also rather chaotic 15:00:48 I personally like it when crawl is black and white. I think demons should be universally evil, and holies good. Or if not good and evil, then at least diametric 15:01:05 but I don't know how to actually change anything in crawl outside of the stuff in des and data and descript 15:01:35 the way I see it, if holies are in pan, it's because they are opposed to the demons and have established a "base" there 15:02:25 like your holy abyssal rune vault 15:02:31 HangedMan: take a look at the monster data! 15:02:35 something funny happened with that earlier, actually 15:02:41 SamB: I feel blasphemous saying this, but I wish more of crawl was object oriented. 15:02:54 bmh: I have mixed feelings about that 15:03:00 a elyite passed by the angels and the ophans but then had a daeva of xom 15:03:09 For example, rather than having a billion switch statements for Felids and every other strange race, we could have a species object and subclass the odd cases 15:03:09 in terms of understanding it, that might be nice 15:03:34 It certainly wouldn't be worth the effort to change. 15:03:48 but the problem is that we're using C++, which makes adding/removing/changing the signatures of methods cause a lot of recompiling 15:04:00 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:08 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:12 bmh: oh, I'm not sure I'd prefer that at all 15:04:18 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:55 then again, I'm not sure I wouldn't ... 15:05:23 Keskitalo: regarding the faerie idea you put on the pan wiki page, have you ever seen that weird branch in "crawl alternative" (old pre-dcss fork)? 15:05:42 evilmike: have you ever played that? 15:06:43 nope, couldn't get it to compile when I tried 15:06:56 I looked at the source code though, since I was interested in the weird things it did 15:07:25 would faerie imply the whole sort of "elves and fairies are cruel sociopathic bastards" sort of thing? 15:07:38 are they not? 15:07:39 Is there any reason I shouldn't change actor->poison(…) to return the amount of poison successfully applied? 15:07:56 bmh: what does it return now? 15:08:01 SamB: void! 15:08:19 hmm, well, it will probably trigger a complete recompile... 15:08:26 does that bother you? 15:08:29 no. 15:08:44 the "make you dance until your legs are bloody stumps" kind of cruel 15:09:00 HangedMan: okay, that sounds excessive 15:09:20 you're talking about the seven princesses? 15:09:49 or was it 12? 15:10:25 twelve 15:10:44 I had some chaotic monster ideas that could be bent into that direction somewhat easily 15:11:17 SamB: monster::poison(…) returns void and dispatches to poison_monster(…) which returns… bool! argh :) 15:11:52 maybe we should convert the entire codebase to Objective C ;-P 15:12:05 SamB: sweet, then we can submit it to the Apple Store! 15:12:17 ahem 15:12:24 uh, the what now? 15:12:33 if we're going to convert the entire codebase, let's convert it into rust! 15:12:42 Wensley: People have actually heard of rust? 15:12:48 bmh: I have :P 15:12:53 what is that? 15:12:56 and it makes me so excited, for some reason 15:13:05 bmh: I thought that was the only point of Nethack's rust monster? 15:13:12 A new systems programming language by Mozilla designed to not take forever to compile. 15:13:19 oh 15:13:20 And to be type safe. 15:13:28 yes, the type safety is the biggest thing 15:13:30 I can see why they wanted that! 15:13:34 has some really cool type safety ideas 15:13:41 with implicit assertions and things 15:13:44 Wensley: have you ever even thought about compiling Mozilla? 15:13:52 nope :P 15:14:02 haskell or you can throw the code away right away 15:14:06 Wensley: a friend of mine was working on the macro system for rust -- paul-rusts.tumblr.com/ 15:14:08 yes haskell yes 15:14:11 but they don't list "fast compilation" as a goal, it isn't like Go 15:14:24 (He also plays Dorf Fortress like a drug addict.) 15:14:28 bmh: the macro system makes me *really* excited, was looking at its test cases yesterday 15:14:31 also, dpeg will like it really much as a mathematician. he might even contribute code :) 15:14:41 probaby because their actual go is "not retardedly slow recompiling" 15:14:54 bhaak: I won't contribute code anywhere. :) 15:15:06 bhaak: dpeg is being honest! 15:15:19 dpeg: Haskell barely counts! 15:15:25 dpeg is like the Chihuly of roguelikes. 15:15:31 but haskell is the only language where mathematicians can program in! 15:15:39 only mathematicians! :-) 15:15:48 SamB: read this quick overview, if you're interested: https://github.com/graydon/rust/wiki/Language-FAQ 15:15:52 * SamB would have to clean out his old compiled haskell packages though 15:16:05 SamB: I'm going to make this code more sane. 1. Try to poison something, 2. If you can poison it, print some messages. 15:16:06 bhaak: what about APL? 15:16:19 Rather than -- print some messages and then poison it. 15:16:44 Wensley: the encoding/font situation is not idea 15:16:47 *ideal 15:16:51 bmh: for quite some time I felt like excess baggage being a non-coding dev, but this feeling passes with time, like everything else. 15:17:10 dpeg: so why is it that you don't code? 15:17:20 dpeg: I really appreciate your aggressive applications of sanity to crawl. 15:17:20 are you allergic? 15:17:41 Wensley: erm, wasn't the proposition going forwards in time, not backwards? :) 15:18:06 bhaak: it still might be better than C++! 15:18:11 SamB: Please check your dpeg care and feeding manual, point 37 -- "Do not try to coax your dpeg into writing code." :) 15:18:16 I wouldn't use a language that might eat my laundry 15:18:30 SamB: no no, I used to code when I was younger (think Eisenhower era): basic, assembler (8 and 16 bit), pascal. But I have no idea about Crawl's code base and I am clearly of more help with activities other than coding, trust me. 15:18:54 dpeg: it's probably better for your sanity, anyway 15:19:00 SamB: if my cats invented a language, it would be better than C++! that's not a pro :-D 15:19:27 see, C++ was never invented 15:19:30 bhaak: For all its warts, C++ is pretty good. 15:19:34 it was just grown over time... 15:19:35 * dpeg doubts that quality of language ("better"/"worse") can be linearly ordered. 15:20:01 True story -- when I was in college, Bjarne tried to pick up my girlfriend when they were at lunch. 15:20:02 bmh: well, it has a few good points 15:20:28 bmh: is that a pro or con? :) 15:20:51 bmh: did she refuse to touch a man responsible for such an evil construct? 15:20:54 dpeg: At least he isn't Guido or Larry Wall or any of those other wankers who can't design a language. 15:21:06 Guido? 15:21:12 dpeg: Python 15:21:17 ah 15:21:22 he's the Benevolant Dictator For Life 15:21:29 SamB: I was trying to slur Italians ;) 15:21:39 Gudio's main problem is not getting functional programming 15:21:43 *Guido 15:21:46 ais523++; 15:21:46 yes, that is his main problem 15:21:58 Larry Wall's main problem is being a lunatic. 15:22:10 his people seem to manage to talk sense into him, though 15:22:12 Once I saw a 'lecture' by him where he literally started reading the changelog. 15:22:20 (Guido's, I mean.) 15:22:21 bmh: I think Perl is intended as an attempt to make a programming language similar to a natural language 15:22:27 which explains pretty much everything about it 15:22:28 ais523: yes 15:22:28 not everybody can be matz 15:22:47 ais523: I'm pretty sure I've seen that stated explicitly 15:22:48 bhaak: yech, Ruby is an abomination 15:23:05 Ruby's an abomination for the right reasons, though 15:23:13 bmh: i wouldn't expect anything else from somebody that thinks that C++ is not so bad :) 15:23:15 why is ruby an abomination? 15:23:24 bhaak: there is no god but Scheme. 15:23:30 I mean, what are these "right reasons" 15:23:30 (And Trog) 15:23:36 bmh: Ruby is actually a Lisp in disguise 15:23:40 bmh: Come now! 15:23:47 but it's a pretty good disguise 15:23:53 the only fault of ruby is that it is not smalltalk 15:23:55 can there be a bigger mess than a bunch of software engineers talking about the goodness of different programming languages 15:23:55 scheme is a bit too light-weight, isn't it? 15:24:00 * dpeg burns some books in the name of Trog. It feels good, try it! 15:24:10 Adeon: I don't think most of us are engineers 15:24:12 all languages are bad / everyone go home 15:24:19 and I'm not sure "software engineer" is a valid term in any case 15:24:40 monqy: well, yes, but some are less bad than their neighbors! 15:24:53 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:29 Is it way off to state that every language excels at something? I always thought that language should be chosen according to problem, just like a craftsman would do. 15:25:41 yes; it's way off 15:25:47 there we go, I think I've straightened up poisoning. 15:25:48 way off, yes 15:26:02 there are languages that are the problem! :) 15:26:03 interesting, I wonder what folks have been doing over the last forty years :) 15:26:15 Probably burned the wrong books. 15:26:39 JavaScript, now there's a wretched language. 15:26:52 don't listen to these folks, languages *do* excel at certain things, although not all of those things are useful to anyone here 15:27:04 dpeg: Not every language excells at anything 15:27:11 and some of what they excel at are no longer applicable 15:27:12 Wensley: sure, I would expect that some are very niche or made obsolete by later languages 15:27:13 some languages excel at being bad, or not excelling at things. 15:27:18 some are just plain mediocre 15:27:42 monqy: I don't think they excel; there are plenty of languages that are pretty bad! 15:27:49 some languages excel at being popular, but not good 15:27:54 all languages that are not lisp are attempts to somehow specialize in some niche 15:27:56 yes, that is true 15:27:58 Are there any spells that poison things without doing damage? 15:27:59 I wonder whatever happened to that language that was literally re-shaped english 15:28:02 in any case, I have no idea what Objective C but I am against it because someone mentioned it in connection with Apple =) 15:28:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:24 Wensley: assembler too? 15:28:41 dpeg: it's C, with smalltalk-style object-orientation added 15:28:42 dpeg: it was a broad, vague statement, let's not overanalyze it :P 15:28:43 assembly is very very specialized 15:29:30 SamB: it can be as good as apple pie, if it leads to Apple and selling out, I am against it. 15:29:49 dpeg: the selling-out thing was a joke :-P 15:30:03 apple just happens to use it 15:30:05 don't worry, GCC supports Objective C 15:30:17 Adeon: NeXT didn't design it? 15:30:26 I don't know 15:30:46 no, it was not designed by Apple of steve jobs 15:30:49 *or 15:30:55 steve jobs hating coding 15:31:01 *hated 15:31:42 pretty sure NeXT didn't design objective c 15:32:58 Keskitalo: I have a patch for that bad behavior you were seeing 15:32:59 <|amethyst> NeXT didn't invent objective C, though they did develop AppKit and Foundation Kit, which turned into Cocoa 15:33:32 bmh: on your question about poison spells, olgreb's does that. no damage, just poison. 15:33:50 evilmike: great. should be faster than needles. 15:33:55 |amethyst: and which are still called that, yeah? 15:34:44 <|amethyst> I think so 15:36:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:55 argh. I might just remove the function actor::res_poison() 15:38:05 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:17 -!- Lohen has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:20 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:01 -!- Vandal has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:53:46 !seen kilobyte 15:53:46 I last saw kilobyte at Sat Oct 15 15:45:07 2011 UTC (5h 8m 39s ago) saying you dont get skills back if you convert to a race with a skill useless then back, but thats probably not worth it on ##crawl-dev. 15:58:36 dpeg: meow? 15:58:45 Hi there! 15:59:21 kilobyte: moo! 16:01:20 kilobyte: some silly forum thread got me thinking about nausea/sickness, setting up a mail right now. 16:02:40 So here's another question: what's your agenda for 0.10? Will Spider be on it? 16:04:00 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:21 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:09 dpeg: TDHS is on my list right after this level_type thingy that turned out to be a massive overhaul 16:16:26 cool 16:16:34 will you get to me for the HS? 16:16:42 but it'd be good to prepare a list of powers so you can comment beforehand 16:16:52 yeah 16:16:53 Shall I have a go at it? 16:17:43 the problem is, starting from a pile of ideas without looking at how it should get those powers is quite worthless 16:18:30 so what we need is: "if most damage was done by AF_FIRE, get rF++", etc 16:18:49 yes, I can come up with something specific 16:18:54 which is a bit tricky, too... a weapon of flaming does 8/9 damage physically, 1/9 fire 16:19:28 I have some idea how we can avoid pitfalls. 16:24:11 03edlothiol * r50c127e8ad51 10/crawl-ref/source/ (31 files in 5 dirs): Make Webtiles output happen in parallel to the console display, and make the server record ttyrecs. 16:24:11 03edlothiol * r4dc3d12ef287 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (config.py process_handler.py terminal.py): Webtiles: Write an ID header in the ttyrecs similarly to DGL. 16:24:11 03edlothiol * r1bba1ddf12db 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (process_handler.py terminal.py): Webtiles: Restore the logging of Crawl's stderr output. 16:24:11 03edlothiol * r5b3ccb01e8bb 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (process_handler.py server.py): Webtiles: Restore the non-DGL mode. 16:24:12 03edlothiol * r19ca16943bbb 10/crawl-ref/source/ (27 files in 7 dirs): More Webtiles server refactoring. 16:24:12 03edlothiol * re225b67883ec 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (process_handler.py terminal.py ws_handler.py): Make the Webtiles server able to handle older game versions (i.e. 0.9) again. 16:24:22 03edlothiol * r9276c24ff757 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (process_handler.py terminal.py): Webtiles: Fix idle time. 16:24:48 edlothiol: did you just make dgl obsolete? 16:25:29 dpeg: not really, but webtiles games will now be recorded and viewable from dgl :) 16:25:38 <3 16:26:17 kilobyte: TDHS? 16:26:27 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:36 Trans-Dimensional Hellspider 16:26:54 a shmup by His Highness himself 16:27:12 dpeg: Doesn't sound like anything I'd want to meet in a dark alley. 16:27:13 awesome work with the ttyrec thing 16:27:27 it will be nice to be able to watch replays of webtiles 16:27:33 bmh: according to the plan, you'd meet if five times in Spider :) 16:27:55 yes, now we just need trunk builds for webtiles ;) 16:28:43 edlothiol: is there a principal obstacle to this? 16:29:49 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:14 no, it just needs a bit of work, build scripts and all that 16:31:13 Napkin run trunk webtiles, I guess. 16:31:21 I'll start bugging Napkin about it now that the ttyrec thing is mostly done ;) 16:32:11 trunk webtiles would expose how many things don't get tiles when they're implemented! 16:32:26 then again webtiles also doesn't show most of the missing tiles anyway 16:34:04 -!- Varsovie_crawl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:27 dpeg: Could you look at a patch? 16:45:57 bmh: no cook^H^Hding skills! 16:47:17 dpeg: no coding involved 16:47:38 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4738 16:47:57 ah, decisions needed? 16:48:07 yeah -- is that mutation too cruel? 16:49:20 hm, don't know 16:49:28 What is the idea? To make players use risky spells less? 16:50:11 To amuse xom 16:51:01 To make glow dangerous 16:51:21 I didn't make it a particularly common mutation. 16:52:38 Don't think it is really relevant... then again, so many negative mutations aren't relevant either. 16:52:44 What did the others say? 16:53:08 It makes zot traps punish players who are already mutated more...effects that hit players that are already struggling seem counterproductive. 16:53:14 rwbarton thought it would be OK as long as it didn't make the player glow without an external glow source 16:53:35 dpeg: If there are negative mutations that aren't relevant, let's dump 'em post haste. 16:53:58 how strong is the increase in glow? would it be likely to make nasty things happen just off regular miscasts? 16:54:41 hmm, although even if it doesn't trigger off miscasts, "never cast haste unless you want yellow glow" might be a bit unpleasant for a mutation 16:55:24 Well, that's level 3 16:55:36 "Never attack unless you want to berserk" is not nice either! 16:55:51 But the problem is zot traps 16:55:52 this is true, there are many ways of handling that though 16:56:01 RichardHawk: but berserk is double edged. I've seen cases where berserk was put to good use. 16:56:19 there's not really any way of handling glow other than not getting it (and it will then make your mutations worse and the glow mutation harder to remove) 16:57:09 MarvinPA: at level 3 you will glow about 50% more 16:57:22 dpeg: Yes, I appreciate that. The most interesting mutations in the game are double edged. 16:57:28 The effect, in my opinion, is modest and nowhere near as dangerous as berserkitis 16:58:33 dpeg: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2853 16:58:54 that was one of your suggestions a while ago, wasn't it? :P 17:00:00 i remember a very similar idea being mentioned when the alchemist card went in, at least :) 17:01:15 MarvinPA: 2853? 17:02:01 sorry, was a random tangent, i just noticed that topic suggesting a summon mercenaries spell where you pay in gold 17:02:30 MarvinPA: must be another topic, 2853 is a speech bug 17:02:51 My (actually Haran's) proposal was the mercenary card. 17:03:08 oh, that's a tavern link rather than a mantis one :P 17:03:13 ah 17:03:31 yeah, card sounds like it'd work better than a spell 17:03:52 hey, I mention the card in reply 2! :) 17:04:02 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:17 bmh: that card would be cool to have! =) 17:04:25 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:27 heh 17:04:35 dpeg: bless all my patches and I'll write it :) 17:04:46 can't! 17:04:47 anyway, i'll try out the glow thing locally 17:04:53 Don't understand all of it. 17:04:58 MarvinPA: thank you 17:06:51 The effect might not be harsh enough to modify player behavior. 17:08:37 hm okay, well it doesn't give you yellow glow off a single haste even at level 3 17:08:41 bmh: yes. Been thinking to myself about an anti-caster mutation... What about reduced success (at the very end of the formula, like for forms), coupled with increase in power? 17:09:25 I just today had an idea for TDHS.. since Spider layouts aren't supposed to have bottlenecks, a multi-tile monster could work well there. 17:09:44 Keskitalo: poor kilobyte :) 17:10:00 Keskitalo: also: evil players abusing dig 17:10:00 what is TDHS 17:10:05 TDHS could be an s surrounded by *'s ... you could call them its "legs" 17:10:14 bbbbut kraken 17:10:14 i think my worry with the glow thing is that it would generally just mean casters have to spend longer resting off glow after a miscast or a haste 17:10:16 dpeg: good concern 17:10:26 dpeg: Yes, a bit similar to kraken 17:10:35 But no "reaching out" with them. 17:11:07 Instead, the adaptation could manifest in the legs.. kill the spider with fire, some of the *s could become fire-immune. 17:11:10 Keskitalo: I promised kilobyte to come up with something precise for TDHS evolution. Will you check once I wrote something? (I.e. do you read the wiki from time to time? :) 17:11:16 no way in hell I'm coding multi-tile spider, especially not in time for 0.10. 17:11:22 hehe 17:11:23 dpeg: That's interesting -- a mutation that boosts variance 17:11:24 hehe :) 17:11:32 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:monster:hellspider 17:11:41 I'm not opposed if you write that, of course 17:11:53 bmh: it would need a good thematic handle, I cannot come up with a cool label 17:11:59 nor do I claim priority on coding the spider, got enough other things to do 17:12:30 kilobyte: I'll keep the proposal simple, promised 17:12:41 dpeg: wild magic 17:12:50 hm, sounds good 17:12:55 MarvinPA: what would you think? 17:12:58 bmh: a "good" mutation "Evolution". Does mutate(coinflip() ? RANDOM_MUTATION : GOOD_MUTATION). 17:13:01 dpeg: it's very D&D 17:13:09 eek 17:13:13 bmh: still a bad thing on the average, but certainly fun 17:13:14 * dpeg washes hands. 17:13:28 well, it means something pretty different in d&d doesn't it? 17:13:50 MarvinPA: never played with wild magic, the rules were klunky 17:13:56 one thing I thought would be interesting was if the hellspider cast off an aura that lowered your poison resistance if you are standing in it (starting tiny and growing each time you kill it)... basically giving it a support role, and also making it easier to find due to the aura. That idea is maybe too crazy though so I never put it on the wiki 17:14:09 kilobyte: how often would that mutation trigger? 17:14:17 I dont meant give poison vulnerability, just cancel rpois 17:14:44 well, all i know of it is from the baldur's gate expansion. anyway the mutation concept sounds pretty interesting 17:14:44 for D&D, let's act as if D&D didn't exist. Something being done in D&D should be neither an argument for nor against. A good bit of overlap can be expected as D&D stolen a lot from old material, as do we. 17:14:46 evilmike: would you please add it to the wiki? 17:15:03 since it could be fairly positive if you manage to get wizardry to counteract it 17:15:05 I'll just out the rest of the idea to get it off my head, but let's not think about it for .10; the *s would also gain attacks, and you could kill the *s individually if you wanted to get rid of those attacks. 17:15:28 dpeg: sure, I don't mind adding it 17:15:31 bmh: that can be adjusted, doesn't matter that much. 17:15:32 thank you 17:15:48 but if you don't have access to wizardry then it's a nice bad mut, and probably wouldn't cripple casters completely, but force them to avoid their high-level nukes and emergency spells a bit 17:15:55 Keskitalo: would be easier to achieve with TDHS spiderlings. 17:15:59 bmh: also, mutating is likely to reduce a mutation instead so it'll kill itself pretty fast 17:16:08 Also, I was thinking that there could be eight legs, so there'd always be one gap. The legs could protect the center, and the legs could even rotate around the spider in some fashion. You might want to try to get your hits in in the gap. 17:16:32 <|amethyst> evilmike: Wensley was talking about a monster like that 17:16:35 i think i saw someone suggest that aura of -rPois idea before as a moth of [something 17:16:37 ] 17:16:48 <|amethyst> yeah, that was it I think 17:16:51 which might be interesting so as to not lump too many abilities onto the hellspider 17:16:53 This would be appropriately shooter-like, and also, the spiders in Transdimension Hellspider have this as well (not the rotating, but they do grow legs with weapons and shields) 17:17:46 yeah, the moth of frailty would grant rP-, not sure if it would be an aura or a sort of targeted thing like the moth of wrath 17:18:11 the reason I like that for the hellspider is it addresses the rPois issue somewhat, by making it less of an immunity to everything in the branch. Also I like it when certain monsters buff other monsters, that's always cool 17:18:40 evilmike: cool stuff ==> wiki! (seriously, slap it all onto the page) 17:18:59 for purity's sake I think the TDHS should start off plain-jane, but I think it'd be fine if it gained an rP- aura as part of its normal evolution, independent of its specializing evolution 17:19:07 kilobyte: how about a mutation that makes you spew chaos clouds in melee? :) 17:19:22 chaos draconians, breathing clouds of seething chaos 17:19:36 Wensley: yes. 17:19:40 I like the rP cancelling idea too 17:19:44 well, having it on a moth of whatever would address the issue in the same way. also it could be a thing that the TDHS evolves to get, yeah 17:19:48 Wensley: that's what I was thinking, also the aura would grow in size each time, maybe to silent spectre size on spider:5 17:19:51 (aah so many ideas) 17:20:10 FR: Ugly Thing as a species. 17:20:32 folks, I am trying to write an article, just dash all the ideas onto the wiki, and let me sort it out 17:20:53 dpeg: You're allowed to sign off IRC :) 17:20:55 wensley don't use seething chaos clouds my chaos champions are going to use those a lot 17:21:02 bmh: hehe 17:21:10 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Quit: Recalculating TATARI at "the crossing crossing"] 17:21:11 MarvinPA: so many ideas ==> TDHS randomisation for later 17:21:37 hmm 17:22:09 the problem with aureas and such is that the TDHS is supposed to get powers based on what you hit it with, not what you resist 17:22:16 s/aureas/auras/ 17:22:23 anyone notice the tests crashing a lot lately? 17:22:31 (and they'd be somewhat unfitting) 17:23:12 SamB: you mean, the "revisited" one? It was broken since the day tests were added. Not a regression, just an unfixed bug. 17:23:27 SamB: no one alive understands monster pathfinding :( 17:23:55 kilobyte: I meant the fact that crawl itself sometimes crashes when running the tests 17:24:01 s/alive/active/ 17:24:57 I doubt anyone still remembers how it works, even if they did once understand 17:27:16 let's just outsource our pathfinding 17:27:59 ... right ... 17:28:43 SamB: ugh, that's new 17:28:51 Making rings of ice and fire auto-id on equip is easy, but if they're artefact base type, they don't get id'd. The same goes for wizardry. 17:29:38 kilobyte: the skill system is getting called into without the queues being initialized, it seems 17:29:42 SamB: here's the plan: we institute a system of "crawl credits" that can be spent in-game on scrolls of acquirement, but can only be gained by watching someone else's game and actively controlling each monster 17:29:54 lol 17:30:17 ??wensley[3] 17:30:18 wensley[3/9]: wensley has the best bad ideas 17:30:41 yes, so it would seem! 17:30:44 Auto-id'ing appropriate artifact jewellery only works if it can be faked via presenting the base type as an artefact property, i.e. there should be artefact properties of "of fire", "of ice" and "wizardry" for it to be possible to do in the current way. 17:31:10 anyway about the aura, even if the rPois thing is too weird or too excessive, I think just having the spider cast off some kind of glow would be good 17:31:33 I just imagine it would be problematic to require the player to kill an enemy, if they have no way of guessing where it is 17:31:52 area of warped space 17:31:57 since it's transdimensional 17:32:16 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: bmh] 17:32:22 evilmike: the aurua would be perfectly appropriate if the player has rP 17:32:32 it would constitute an evolutionary adaptation 17:32:52 I think kilobyte has a decent point about it adapting based on what you use against it, and not resists 17:32:53 I'm sure the code here could be rewritten, I'm just not going to do it right now. Should I commit what I have? 17:34:22 sounds good to make regular fire/ice rings work, yeah 17:34:35 kilobyte: can dlua use the normal lua libraries? 17:35:14 I think a message is appropriate. "You feel more attuned to fire/ice"? 17:35:15 evilmike: it's true that up until this point all discussions (that I've seen, anway) have focused on strictly defensive adaptations, but that doesn't mean we can't have some offensive adaptations as well. not that we don't already have tons of work to do on this thing as it is, of course 17:35:53 It could be a bit strange that it ids without explanation; a message about you feeling something handwaves it nicely. 17:36:14 Wensley: check the wiki pages (one on TDHS itself, the other on Spider branch). 17:36:17 are rings of fire/ice auto-id'ing now? 17:36:20 Keskitalo: yes 17:36:52 wensley have you not played transdimensional hellspider 17:37:19 HangedMan: yes, and also I wrote the original hellspider proposal on the wiki 17:37:39 ...right, you did 17:37:57 but the goal of this was never to strictly adhere to linley's shmup, only to give it a subtle nod 17:37:59 Hmhm, you should probably get a special message when you wear both fire and ice rings. 17:38:11 "you feel redundant" 17:38:28 But that's something I'm not going to do now either. :) 17:39:11 Keskitalo: if that message is going to appear when wearing the ring, no handling that specially would be enough IMO 17:39:28 yeah, wearing 17:40:41 !seen elliptic 17:40:41 I last saw elliptic at Sat Oct 15 15:38:11 2011 UTC (7h 2m 30s ago) joining the channel. 17:40:53 Lost to DoomRL :) 17:40:55 dpeg: hi :) 17:41:12 hehe 17:41:16 dpeg: perhaps the next sprint map should be based on drl 17:41:27 Wensley: sure, why not 17:41:36 elliptic: I dimly recall shoving someting onto your plate? Do you recall what it was? 17:41:47 I was actually saying the other day that doomrl reminds me of a cross between sprint and a ziggurat 17:41:57 that sounds like a good combo 17:41:58 dpeg: nerfing slaying 17:42:00 ??zig sprint 17:42:00 zig sprint[1/2]: Create a file dat/des/sprint/zig.des with these contents: http://pastebin.com/M7LjZaSH. Drop the "FLAGS: ..." line for 0.8. 17:42:06 elliptic: ah, right 17:42:10 I wonder if this still works... 17:42:35 git log 17:42:40 window wrong 17:42:54 elliptic: DoomRL has unlockables, if I read correctly. How does that work out for youß? 17:43:31 you unlock everything fairly quickly so it doesn't really matter 17:43:36 ok 17:43:52 you are mainly unlocking special challenges, which you wouldn't have a chance with anyway 17:44:04 what pisses me off is that they don't get passed forward with upgrades 17:44:09 03Keskitalo * r36ed67b73167 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godpassive.cc player-equip.cc): Auto-id rings of fire and ice on equip. 17:44:24 they do 17:44:39 with the first couple of versions they were present they didn't, though 17:44:43 so you have to play a vanilla game on "Can I play, daddy?" and a number of other pointless things before continuing 17:45:20 some games have an unlock-everything menu option 17:46:01 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:20 for this reason I didn't touch DoomRL in quite a while... I could do a 100% Ao100 on UV back then, I guess I've since became too rusty so that "Can I play, daddy?" win could actually be not utterly boring... but still, that'd hurt my Doom creed :( 17:47:02 (I estimate losing 3-4k hours to playing Doom and another that to modding it, back in the day :p) 17:47:45 kilobyte: were you in the inner circle? 17:48:13 what's that? 17:48:43 dpeg: he's pretending there is no inner circle; he must have been! 17:48:45 dunno, close enough to the dev to influence design choices 17:49:00 SamB: good point. Also, classical East bloc style :) 17:50:11 no, no. No Internet, no ways to talk to remote players, hardly any access to outside tools. Just kids playing around. 17:50:40 V:8 has had quite the nerf in recent versions, loss of level drain and now breath timers for shadow dragons... 17:51:08 dpeg: Note that in my Pan idea, the "place" wouldn't be Pandemonium anymore, but Pandemonium would be a part of the place. 17:51:19 while obviously me and my brother could humble anyone we played with, the playing style differed a lot from what most newer players take for granted 17:51:37 you mean for quicksilver dragons right 17:51:59 kilobyte: ah, you're tlking about Doom, not DoomRL. 17:52:03 like, we knew about straferunning and did it extensively 100% of the time, but not for example about juice running (following respawn pattern of items to deny the opponent access of them) 17:52:07 ah, yeah :p 17:52:14 need breath timers for stone giants to really nerf v:8 17:52:38 mikee_: what do they breath? Cabbage? 17:52:48 stones =P 17:52:54 mikee_: make it so that stone giants can only breathe once every ten turns, so they pass out from the exertion of throwing all those stones without being able to replenish their oxygen stores 17:53:04 you are brilliant 17:53:08 yes I know 17:53:21 actually this sounds like an awesome hex spell 17:53:24 mikee_: v:8 is designed to be a stair dancing fest anyway, you'd have to start there 17:53:31 actually, no, it sounds like an awesome air/tloc spell 17:54:01 i think i am one of the last people who still stair dances v:8 17:54:13 why would you need to, it's easy!! 17:54:26 kilobyte: how did you not hit on that "juice running" thing independantly? 17:54:32 make it so that there are only shafts to v:8, no staircases, and then put a portal to the vestibule in one of the loot vaults 17:54:50 I've never heard of it before, but that doesn't mean I've never done it! 17:55:36 mikee_: I do it too! 17:55:37 not, mind, that I've ever played Doom 17:55:39 SamB: even in the connected community, it is said to be unknown until well into Quake1 times 17:55:44 i don't know how you could do a 100% ao100 on UV. this is sickening 17:55:48 stair dancing is just a habit more than an optimal strategy, I do it because I'm used to it 17:56:02 evilmike, well you are basically the real version of the stereotypes people have for me =P 17:56:11 i hear you like slaying 17:56:21 mikee_: not that hard actually... I did it with regular weapons, better players have done it in melee 17:56:44 mikee_: and I somehow can't get anywhere on Nightmare 17:56:46 kilobyte, this one level has taken me over 20 minutes so far because of the Vs 17:57:03 uhm, kill them first? :p 17:57:06 if you are going for 100% on nightmare, that is an entirely different thing =P 17:57:21 oh this may be because you haven't played in a while 17:57:31 V has an upgraded AI now and will try to get behind other monsters 17:57:42 mikee_: how would 100% on nightmare be even possible? 17:57:42 it is very annoying. or should i say Very annoying 17:57:44 speaking of the vaults... am I the only person who thinks vaults:1-7 could use more vaults? Maybe I take the name of the branch too literally 17:57:49 kilobyte, corpse destruction, mainly 17:58:03 there are actually only 3 vaults specifically meant for V:1-7 although there are a lot more that can show up there 17:58:28 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: sleep] 17:58:43 mikee_: destroying corpses stops only archviles, not respawns. Unless Kornel went mad and broken the rest of fidelity to real Doom, that is. 17:59:13 evilmike: vaults needs a ton of work, it's really just a lazy lazy branch 17:59:19 ??vaults 17:59:20 vaults[1/2]: Accessed from the main dungeon somewhere between levels 14 and 19. Eight levels deep. A large group of guards await on the bottom floor (see {vault 8}), where you can find several item vaults and a silver rune. There are also ordinary {vault}s. 17:59:24 no unique monster set, boring layout 17:59:34 archviles take corpses and revive them where they were, Nightmare respawns don't care about corpses and place the monster at where it started 17:59:48 oh, I guess most of the place is just the entrance to the vaults 18:00:00 and the vaults proper are on level 8 18:00:25 one thing I tried offline was editing primary_dummy in dummy.des to make it so it tries to place a vault on every level 18:00:34 doesn't work too well though, because the selection is still pretty small 18:01:15 SamB: yeah vaults 8 is a great level, its jsut that the preceeding 7 are really boring usually 18:01:18 kilobyte, he did go mad 18:01:36 maybe some serial vaults? 18:01:43 there are also some cute exploits some players have 18:01:58 such as if you kill a monster on a door it doesn't leave a corpse because a door and an item can't occupy the same space 18:02:01 what we could do is, make every vaults level use the v:8 layout, just with the usual monster set, and put all the staircases to the next level in one of the (lootless) loot vaults 18:02:19 that would be too much 18:02:23 yes 18:02:30 what really needs to be done is have a good layout gen 18:03:21 why are those things always written in C++, anyway? 18:03:28 what things 18:03:37 the level generators 18:03:59 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:17 you'll have to ask linley 18:04:28 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:37 .message linley 18:04:43 !seen linley 18:04:43 Sorry Wensley, I haven't seen linley. 18:04:59 SamB: a great part is done in Lua, but it doesn't seem adequate for complex ones 18:05:24 Lua is damn weak when it comes to readable code. Even compared to C++. 18:09:10 hmm 18:09:55 dpeg: if during my BRANCH_, LEVEL_ and portal vault overhaul an accident happens to current Spider portal vault, would you cry? I doubt it's worth the trouble/confusion to have both the branch and portal vault. 18:12:36 kilobyte: boys don't cry 18:13:01 To the Vault concerned: check the wiki, it has some ideas how to make the branch more interesting. 18:13:09 -!- petete has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:37 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:27 wensley hasn't the devwiki held ideas of at least keeping some monsters in rooms and a couple of patrollers outside to mimic the actual use of said layout for ages 18:25:36 boxes <3 18:25:58 or maybe that was for dis which uses the same thing 18:27:07 also I thought that the hive portal vault was going to pick up where the spider portal vault left off 18:27:14 I cannot paste the wiki link, but it really easy to find. 18:27:24 yeah I found it 18:27:29 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:vaults 18:37:24 no more -ctele status light on the orbrun? 18:38:06 kilobyte: Or, perhaps 18:38:24 There could be Snake Pit and Swamp vaults eligible for generation when the branch itself isn't generated 18:38:37 And Shoals 18:38:55 a shoals vault? 18:38:58 you must be kidding! 18:39:03 when I first saw the lair:8 frog pond I thought it was a mini-swamp to represent no swamp 18:39:09 A little beach in a room. 18:39:23 I've never been there, but I know that getting tide to work in a vault would be no easy task! 18:39:28 with tides and open sea 18:39:40 SamB: Didn't Shoals begin as a vault? 18:39:56 I don't have a clue 18:40:03 how long do you think I've been playing? 18:40:09 500 years 18:41:45 * SamB wishes he could adjust the palette used for the Windows console in graphical mode 18:58:27 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:03:57 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:31 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:20 dtsund: it begain as a portal vault, rather than a regular dungeon-placed vault (to which I think SamB is referring) 19:15:16 Oh, did dtsund mean those branches should be portal vaults when they aren't branches? 19:16:32 I think you're misinterpreting something that dtsund said after he had misinterpreted something that kilobyte said 19:16:42 I could also be misinterpreting what you're saying 19:16:54 and maybe you're misinterpreting this 19:16:59 how useless language is 19:18:34 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:54 Wensley: it *does* look like dtsund departed from kilobyte's direction at a wild angle, yes 19:19:26 are you saying he ran away from kilobyte 19:21:30 what dignity and meaning we put into the most recent formation of something originally oriented towards telling the other apes where the fruit is 19:22:02 mikee_: no, just that he either misinterpreted kilobyte's plans *or* had an idea that was only tangentially related to them 19:22:14 HangedMan, how did kobold lord get your password 19:22:23 and I use the geometric analogies quite loosely! 19:22:29 :) 19:22:44 I'm horribly paraphrasing something, shush 19:23:29 because tangents don't actually depart at any angle from the curve they are tangent to 19:25:30 hmm, there ought to be a way to make crawl run the tests forever 19:27:16 like, autorobin? 19:28:31 the five canned scenarios I have in test/stress/run suck, it'd be nice to have something that resembles the actual game, with a decent coverage 19:30:00 kilobyte: I just meant so that I wouldn't have to keep manually starting and attaching GDB to crawl for this only-sometimes crash 19:35:15 Ah, sorry, wasn't around to clarify. 19:35:48 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:51 dtsund: Wensley dashed off to write a three volume tome "The exegesis of dtsund". 19:36:14 dpeg: have you read my rationale on the tavern for those books 19:36:38 Wensley, link me... o= 19:36:51 because you're either mocking my verbosity or you are psychic 19:36:53 I was just suggesting that there could be portal vaults corresponding to the early-Lair branches, and that when a branch isn't generated, the portal vault would be eligible for appearance (but certainly not guaranteed) 19:37:16 Wensley: yes, looks good, go ahead 19:37:33 So, I was playing around with a polearm today, and apparently reaching is not a passive property. 19:37:55 Is there some sort of 'thing' against this... 19:37:56 syraine: yes, no way to make it passive -- or do you see one? 19:39:10 dtsund: I understand where you come from (it is about symmetry etc.) but I think portal vaults with completely different targets are more interesting. 19:40:21 there are some ways to make it passive that are slightly complex 19:40:45 <|amethyst> you don't want to prevent someone with a reaching weapon from closing on a centaur 19:40:49 for example, whenever you attack an enemy in a square adjacent to you, it automatically attacks any enemy in the square just beyond it 19:40:59 (as in, it hits both) 19:41:03 Wensley: and you lose the knight's jump, don't you? 19:41:12 Dpeg, I have an idea, but I need some time before I present it as a concrete proposal. I was thinking that you could treat a monster as adjacent for the purposes of melee attacks if in range. Easy to check if it is in range, and to reach, just force the player to evoke the polearm every time it moves in the direction of a monster. 19:41:17 dpeg: the square would be chosen randomly, if there were more than one target 19:41:42 dpeg: justification is that it's hard to aim a spear while you're skewering someone with it, especially when that spear is two dragons long :P 19:41:42 |amethyst: this could be addressed with a special prefix (e.g. *) 19:41:47 Hit the first monster every time. 19:41:58 If it has a 'piercing' property it can hit two. 19:42:29 and yes, you'd retain the ability to evoke the weapon to target it at a distant enemy 19:42:50 I wish you could just lose that ability. It doesn't make any sense, really. 19:42:59 It becomes like, smite-targeted spearing. 19:43:22 dpeg: I think I agree; it was just a suggestion in case Spider vaults were deemed desirable to keep. 19:43:36 yes, it's somewhat unwieldy 19:43:57 are you making a pun? 19:43:57 an alternative could be to just have any spear-wielder get a free attack that takes no time whenever an enemy moves next to him 19:44:03 ??rimshot 19:44:03 joke[7/12]: thanks i'll be here all week, try the chunk of young calf flesh 19:44:09 Wensley, that sounds hilarious. 19:44:23 Zero-cost melee attack! 19:44:29 yes 19:44:52 it's also a strange solution, but perhaps better than evokable reaching 19:44:55 dtsund: I thought you'd say that. Didn't keep folks going off in rather wild, cough, tangents, though :) 19:45:04 But it does make it tempting to train polearms with auxiliary unarmed combat strikes. 19:45:19 Which is a bit, er, unintuitive. 19:45:37 note that one application of reaching is summon play 19:45:45 ah, true 19:45:57 Dpeg, are you for or against that? 19:47:15 it is good, I want to keep it 19:47:30 reaching is one of our better brands, I don't want to kill it 19:48:22 * SamB is reminded of awful spy/adware winamp plugins... 19:50:04 The interface could be simplified a lot if we restrict reaching to the eight cardinal directions. We lose the other eight destinations, though. (Simply reach-attack by pressing the arrow key. Have to use Ctrl-direction to move instead of attacking.) 19:51:06 If we keep all 16 destinations, then pressing an arrow key could attack the single target (if only one). If there are more, it could either give a cursor to choose, or take a random target. 19:53:15 dpeg: I condone simplifying the reaching interface 19:53:29 dpeg: also, if we did that, we could make ctrl+direction activate reaching as well 19:53:52 Can we not have reaching require doing anything other than attacking 19:53:54 :P 19:54:19 isn't ctrl-direction currently disarm trap? 19:54:28 nope, it's force-attack 19:54:28 It's attack in (y) 19:54:40 autofight already automatically reaches, doesn't it? 19:54:46 yeah it does 19:54:49 MarvinPA, I just used that 19:54:51 It's not amazing 19:54:53 oh 19:55:04 Mainly because of the target system 19:55:05 Zannick: it does disarm traps though, yes 19:55:23 Yeah... I wish it could just target the first enemy in a direction 19:56:20 there are occasions where you want to move close to an enemy rather than attacking it 19:56:26 Wensley: attacking should be default 19:56:40 dpeg: what do you mean? 19:56:45 missing some context 19:56:46 re your last comment to me 19:57:06 Wensley, that should be the secondary thing 19:57:13 btw, Shift-direction is better than Ctrl-direction (these commands can be overloaded a bit, but Shift-direction has no use with monsters around, so can be used safely here) 19:57:17 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:49 dpeg: yes, although I wanted to propose using shift-direction for a charging attack :P 19:58:08 Wensley: no problem: different weapon type 19:58:08 Shift-direction could be the force move 19:58:21 And normal movement could be the attack 19:58:30 Wensley: we just rule that you don't charge with spears 19:58:31 dpeg: speaking of, I actually have a friend with a mostly-complete patch with new weapon abilities 19:59:17 Wensley: your style of development is quite intransparent. Siffie, cough 19:59:36 Wensley: we never know what we'll get :) 20:00:00 dpeg: I promise I won't start on sif until I write the spec document, but I have no control over what my friends decide to randomly implement :P 20:01:51 you can tell them how we tick! 20:03:04 i can play with current reaching just fine 20:03:20 autofight only gets screwy if theres more than one enemy 20:03:43 I kind of spam shift-direction to move around when I don't want to autoexplore and I depend on it to not do anything if there's a monster around. 20:03:53 I wouldn't like it to mean anything special if a monster did happen to show up. 20:03:57 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:10 arg, the Shift mover speaks up :) 20:10:28 how about removing levitation? 20:11:01 now that swiftfly is gone its purely an annoyance (or well, actually i died one time to not being able to pick up items, but that was a very very stupid death anyway) 20:11:25 * alefury is currently getting somewhat annoyed doing shoals with boots of levitation 20:13:04 what is the point of cFly then 20:13:38 do you mean the levitation spell? 20:13:45 or the effect 20:13:47 wait, swiftfly is gone? 20:13:49 :O 20:14:25 oh of course the effect, i forgot the spell is now gone 20:14:51 i mean the effect 20:15:20 its rarely relevant, usually its just annoying 20:16:24 I think there was discussion about either getting rid of cFly or having it maybe give an EV bonus like kenku. 20:16:33 as i said, i did die to the difference between flight and levitation one time, but that was an epically stupid death. i even posted that one on the tavern if you want to have a good laugh. 20:20:03 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:31 anyway, good night 20:22:11 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:22:55 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:01 Pacra: Yeah, it's gone. 20:26:14 Error (dc-mon.txt:15): couldn't load image 'vault/hellbinder'. 20:26:20 what causes errors of this type 20:27:13 trying to add new tiles 20:28:08 Is there a 'hellbinder.png' in the vault directory? 20:28:16 ye 20:28:46 Is its name spelled correctly? I almost did 'hellbender' there 20:28:49 o wait nm i fixed it 20:29:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellbender 20:30:11 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:44 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:34:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:10 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:34 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:00:01 got that was a lot of work 21:00:12 03Mu * rc20d067cc0e8 10/crawl-ref/source/ (9 files in 4 dirs): Some new tiles for various customised enemies 21:03:58 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:39 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:20:04 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 21:50:21 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 21:50:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:54 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:12 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:47 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:09 03SamB * rf57b7455b5d7 10/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc: Fix intermittent crash in -test. 22:18:57 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:21:16 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:26 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:48 -!- HangedMan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:46 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:44:09 03dolorous * r4f2d919c9fb7 10/crawl-ref/source/ (command.cc player.h tag-version.h tags.cc): Typo fixes. 22:46:23 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:52:44 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:04 -!- HangedMan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:03:06 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:03:58 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:14 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:00 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:52 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:38 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:41:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 23:47:18 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:53:03 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]