00:07:30 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:07 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:11:27 wizmode: moving onto a "trap" created with &( undiscovered_trap causes a crash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4734) by reid 00:25:00 dashcunning (L27 HEWz) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed. (Geh:3) 00:26:48 -!- cbus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:28:05 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:33 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 00:59:02 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:59:18 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:24 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:23:50 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1274-gddaaf60 (32) 01:43:20 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 02:01:10 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:25:50 -!- Mottie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:05 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:00:14 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 03:02:54 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:03:09 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:11 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:36 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:39:28 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 03:39:37 -!- petete has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:02 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02:23 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:55 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:17 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:37 -!- ais523 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:19:19 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:21 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:23:13 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:17 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:17 -!- neunon has quit [Changing host] 05:29:18 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:39 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 05:43:57 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:44:43 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:15 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:13 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:55:23 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:58:38 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:07:27 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 06:07:40 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:08:04 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:31 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:27:14 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:16 -!- Varsovie_crawl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:30 -!- Varsovie_crawl has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:33 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:25 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:58:31 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:27 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:27 Xoff (L12 MuWz) ASSERT(zombie_class_size(cs) == Z_NOZOMBIE || zombie_class_size(cs) == mons_zombie_size(base)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 2292 failed. (Orc:4) 07:31:21 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:01 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:00 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:24 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:15 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:58:36 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:59:00 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:27 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:56 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:06 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:52 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:21 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:20:43 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:28 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:24:03 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:39 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:24 -!- santiago has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:35 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:34:15 -!- syllogism has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:34:24 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:07 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:52 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:21 -!- santiago has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:24:59 kilobyte: no idea 09:25:08 don't have time to look into it either, sorry 09:25:50 Zombie fish back away from ranged attacks, but can't submerge.. nice free xp! 09:26:55 Are Ogres going to regain carnivore 1 now that the gradual carnivoreness is in= 09:26:56 ? 09:38:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:06 we should have an opposite to saprovore 09:38:20 gain more nutrition from permafood, less from chunks, way less from gross chunks 09:38:23 give it to elves 09:40:01 -!- petete has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:42:28 only if they start out with biscuits wrapped in mint leaves ;-P 09:49:17 bread ration :P 09:50:04 seriously though, let's give high elves 100% nausea chance from contam chunks and different flavor text :) 09:50:07 they are OP 09:50:38 Fussy 3 09:57:18 I thought it was called flavour text 09:57:55 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:04 Mu_: oh, by the way 09:58:20 I'm not seeing the same problem as you building recent trunk tiles 09:58:28 I ran into a *different* problem! 09:58:37 rltiles builds, but fails 09:59:20 ... so now I'm rebuilding with debug symbols so I can actually look at why it's failing, since procmon.exe isn't telling me what I need to know 10:00:31 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:01:49 fortunately, this system is a lot faster than my Linux one, so the contribs don't take forever to rebuild 10:02:27 (having 4x the RAM probably helps, too ;-) 10:03:21 On my local system, it says there's an incompatible libpng when I build rltiles. 10:03:35 I dunno if it's finding my 64-bit library or what, but I don't really care enough to build tiles anyway. 10:03:44 Fyren: what environment are you building in? 10:03:50 It is building the one in contrib. 10:03:55 CentOS. 10:04:15 is that, like, mint-flavoured? 10:04:27 There are no Elven biscuits, no. 10:04:42 CentOS is RHEL. 10:08:23 * SamB was thinking more like breath mints, actually 10:12:55 I wonder why crawl's contribs don't include advpng... and why sdl-image is using all this deprecated stuff from libpng 10:32:44 SamB: but does it actually compile faster? The very machine I'm sitting at right now does builds in 40ish seconds in Linux, ~6 minutes on Windows. 10:33:02 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110701115916]] 10:33:21 kilobyte: I think it does 10:34:00 kilobyte: but it has a lot more to compile, so maybe it takes longer to finish 10:34:16 I don't know what it's like for you 10:35:05 speaking of contribs, I'm really thinking about making it so compile flags are not passed to contribs (except perhaps a separate variable), contribs are always built with optimization but only once until cleaned 10:35:30 there's no reason to rebuild just because tag-version.h changed or you want a debug/normal build 10:35:55 yeah 10:36:09 it's linked in a way that disallows -flto on library boundaries, too 10:36:17 I guess we should put our debug-related flags in the _L flags? 10:36:57 _L currently is used for Crawl -vs - rltiles-tool 10:37:32 oh 10:37:35 it makes sense to debug the latter... with SDL, not really. And if we'd want to actually debug SDL itself, it's a matter of going into the directory and recompiling 10:38:05 As long as we're building everything such that stack-walking is practical, sure 10:38:26 also rltiles seems to be the one place we don't check for CFLAGS changes yet! 10:38:30 * SamB is fixing that 10:39:46 another thing is, I'd want pango+fontconfig 10:39:57 perhaps just fontconfig might be enough, not sure 10:40:20 isn't pango for *layout*? 10:40:33 the problem is, pango (small) depends on fontconfig (smallish), which in turn heavily depends on glib (*huge*) 10:40:45 (Or do we use non-fixed fonts?) 10:41:08 our current font handling can use only a single .ttf file 10:41:27 (we use both fixed and non-fixed, but I really care only about the former) 10:42:08 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:12 shipping enough fonts to cover the entirety of Unicode would be a like ~15MB download 10:42:36 glib's sources are about as big too, but that's only for compilation not for the finished binary 10:43:02 Well, if you didn't mind just supporting one font size you could use unifont ;-P 10:43:09 and any distribution would veto shipping a huge font just because of not using glyph selection 10:43:24 unifont sucks halfling balls :( 10:43:34 and has only a small part of Unicode 10:43:39 really? 10:43:54 I *have* been seeing a lot of holes lately... 10:43:58 my biggest beef with it, it's too ugly to live 10:44:26 So, what's a fixed font with good coverage? 10:44:46 I really want one font to rule them all, one font to bind them 10:44:56 there's not a single one -- and that's not the best exercise, if you can have multiple fonts do the same in a modular way 10:45:09 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:18 if you want a single huge file, fontforge + cut&paste can get you a long way 10:45:27 well the tricky bit is getting multiple fonts with the same fixed metrics 10:45:56 well, or, finding a library to find the right bits of each font 10:45:56 yeah but if they're close enough, you can shoehorn them into a common size with fontforge 10:46:08 that's what I want pango for :) 10:47:27 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:19 just local tiles, though. Console already works and so do webtiles. 10:50:25 what font does Console usually use? 10:50:45 uhm.. whatever you pick? 10:50:50 I'm seeing something called "raster fonts" selected 10:51:14 ah, Windows. Not sure, terminal? 10:51:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:41 if you have the "raster fonts" selected, it used Windows 3 code paths which wrap everything to 8 bits :( 10:51:47 oh, for terminal I go back and forth between unifont "12" and Courier New "10" 10:52:27 I don't know that it's so much "windows 3 codepaths" as "windows 3 font format" 10:53:10 the actual windows 3 codepaths in XP tend to be restricted to the running of win16 programs 10:53:15 format and behaviour 10:53:33 converted to win32 API, but working as they did before 10:54:01 And they ripped out much of the windows 3 code, anyway, and replaced it with upcalls ;-P 10:54:30 which use somewhat peculier illegal instructions 10:54:30 ie, with that "code page" thingy, and working with 1 byte per screen cell internally 10:55:06 like, for CJK they use a hack that assumes every CJK character has two bytes and every regular width one has one 10:55:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:55:38 and there's an attribute bit that says "first character of a half" and "second character of a half" 10:56:30 selecting a TrueType font changes the behaviour thoroughly 10:57:05 for example, if you write a character to the screen that doesn't exist in the font, reading it back will give you what you wrote 10:57:30 with .fon ones, you get a space instead, suggesting it's distinct code 10:58:12 (I don't know Windows' internals, it's just an observation of its behaviour) 10:59:33 -!- blabber has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:59:41 seriously? they put all this nutso logic in csrss.exe, which runs as ~admin? 11:00:23 Why the heck didn't they make a TTF version of this font instead? 11:00:30 not sure, this is just what I got from brief tests when adding Unicode support for Crawl on win32 console 11:01:43 (I also have to wonder why I only see a choice between that and Lucida Console...) 11:02:37 on WinXP, yeah 11:02:39 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:26 Vista and 7 added Consolas, which is awesome with ClearType and worse than abysmal without 11:03:53 (and curiously, Teh Bestest Font In Existence with freetype :p) 11:06:27 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09:00 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:16:08 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:40 kilobyte: yes, I know how bad Consolas is without subpixel rendering 11:16:44 I've tried it 11:16:48 I have it, just not in that list 11:17:08 oh, but you say freetype renders it decently even without subpixel? 11:17:25 * SamB wishes x-chat would stop getting hung up like it just did 11:17:56 needs at least grayscale antialiasing, but yeah 11:18:24 on a LCD display, there's quite a big difference in favour of subpixel though 11:18:48 well, obviously it's better to use the additional horizontal resolution *if you have it* 11:19:24 (and I think consolas is actually more readable that way in Windows even if you don't) 11:19:24 old-style fonts often don't look that good with antialiasing, both grayscale and subpixel, but Consolas (and the whole C* family) were designed for subpixel only from the start 11:19:46 you mean, without antialiasing? 11:20:13 I did not find consolas at all pleasant to look upon with regular anti-aliasing in Windows 11:20:31 yeah, same 11:21:08 I do not think disabling anti-aliasing is readily available with it, except in putty, in any case. 11:21:53 I've used Consolas with grayscale on CRT in the past, and now I use it as my main font with subpixel both on a regular monitor and on the phone... but I haven't tried it on Windows in ages 11:22:09 mostly because I don't use Windows if I can avoid it :p 11:22:19 It looks fine with ClearType on an LCD 11:22:31 but I don't have an LCD right now, so I turned cleartype off 11:23:11 If I weren't such a packrat, I probably wouldn't be using Windows myself 11:24:34 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:39 hey, you can contain it within a VM so it can't break things outside it :p 11:24:42 good morning 11:24:54 bmh: evenin'! 11:24:56 but it was already installed physically when I started 11:25:08 and I don't know that I have anything beefy enough to run Windows tolerably in a VM 11:25:11 kilobyte: I'll see your GMT+2 and raise you a GMT-7 :) 11:26:08 you don't need much beef to run windows tolerably in a vm 11:26:24 kilobyte: you know, 'tis rather odd indeed to have a PE executable named tilegen.elf! 11:27:42 so... reduce it to 30GB or so, in case a friend harasses you about playing some game, and don't boot it more often than once a half a year 11:28:02 that's where the hoarding comes in! 11:28:08 then for regular times you need Windows for something install one in a VM 11:28:08 -!- petete has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:28:20 actually, not one but a series 11:28:37 -!- petete has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:53 if you want to test something, it's damn important to have at least one install from every type (win2000, XP, Vista, 7, 32/64 bit...) 11:29:16 kilobyte: That sounds worse than testing things on IE6 11:29:19 then, you often want to test something on a fresh install... so it's good to have a blank one you can clone 11:29:24 bmh: not really 11:29:45 the IE6 test VM images expire and you have to download a new one every few months, iirc 11:30:25 same for Unices... but somehow my SCO Sux installation stopped working and I couldn't manage to get it back into shape :p 11:30:26 On mantis, should 'resolved' tickets get closed? 11:30:53 SamB: eh? You can refuse to update just fine. 11:30:54 bmh: if you see them waiting to be "confirmed" or whatever in your view, yeah 11:31:15 bmh: I don't get what's the point in having a separate "resolved" and "closed" state 11:31:26 kilobyte: I'm talking about the IE test VMs MS provides for download 11:31:32 kilobyte: Nor do I. 11:31:34 those have expiration dates 11:31:41 I _think_ in the past the difference was that only developers could reopen a closed one... but this changed 11:32:08 SamB: regular XP with the IE6 it came from 11:32:12 kilobyte: I think the idea is that the one who thinks he fixed the problem is supposed to mark it as "resolved" 11:32:28 and then the reporter is supposed to mark it "closed"? 11:32:33 SamB: it even still gets security updates (not that they're too important in a VM, but you need to use what customers do) 11:32:36 that's what Napkin (iirc) told me 11:32:51 kilobyte: oh, right 11:33:03 and Microsoft tends to break stuff with service packs and even security patches 11:33:04 Maybe I was thinking of IE5 and IE5.5 VMs? 11:33:29 or Vista-based VMs... 11:33:44 probably not the latter, though 11:34:42 ack -- how do I closed a 'feedback' ticket? 11:34:59 oh... I don't get the point in Vista. For example, at work I sit my butt at an ancient P4-era Celeron, 1 core, no HT, 768MB ram -- and it runs Windows VM good enough to run XP or 7 without going to a remote machine 11:35:03 bmh: are you a "developer"? 11:35:11 Vista in turn... don't even bother trying with <2GB ram 11:35:13 SamB: Updater 11:35:23 bmh: oh, well, maybe you ask one of us to do it then 11:35:36 kilobyte can presumably do it in any case 11:35:36 SamB: 0003939 11:35:54 kilobyte, what do you use for virtualization? 11:36:19 kilobyte: oh, so 7 is a lot better then? 11:36:24 I hadn't heard that! 11:36:51 do you use the "Classic" UI? 11:38:41 freeky 11:39:02 diffstat on this Windows machine comes out in color automatically 11:40:10 Zaba: for Windows, VirtualBox 11:40:50 SamB: Vista is a ME-class masterpiece :( 11:41:13 they did ONE very good thing with Vista 11:41:45 they finally started making it a pain to sell applications that needed admin for no damn reason 11:42:33 you need to look REALLY closely to find good things in Vista though 11:42:52 I didn't need to look at all to find that! 11:43:33 7 at least works semi-reasonably, needs only 2-3 times as much memory as XP, and has only a few glaring flaws like searching the filesystem or LAN speeds 11:44:03 searching the filesystem is just an old one, isn't it? 11:44:10 what do you mean about "LAN speeds"? 11:45:02 SamB: no, XP had reasonable search tool, Vista and 7 have one that is not only near-impossible to use but also tends to fail to find files which are there 11:45:08 for LAN speeds: http://angband.pl/tmp/win7_lan.png 11:45:23 kilobyte: I don't think I call what XP has reasonable 11:45:29 another thing win7 has really screwed up when compared to XP is networking configuration 11:45:46 it insists on searching the actual filesystem! 11:45:47 29KB/s on gigabit ethernet one hub away 11:45:51 that takes forever 11:46:07 SamB: it. works. 11:46:10 (mostly on account of it's following the tree structure.) 11:46:26 kilobyte: well, compared to the attrocity you say they have in Vista and 7, okay 11:46:28 which is a huge advantage over Vista/XP indexing which doesn't 11:46:52 but really, haven't thesee people heard of *locate*? 11:46:56 I put a file in directory X, run the search from some place above it... and no matches 11:48:10 somehow, the LAN speed thingy on 7 is new. XP and Vista on the very same hardware get speeds close to nominal... and so does Linux. 11:49:05 kilobyte, probably hardware/driver-specific 11:49:39 or they rearchitectured the network support and screwed something up 11:49:57 well, I don't remember ever getting that on any of the win7 systems I've dealt with, at least 11:50:14 that includes the one I have in a VM on my netbook 11:50:20 two different machines, one of them tested both natively and in a VM (which emulates a different network card than the machine has physically) 11:50:21 kilobyte: so, why does tilegen get named "tilegen.elf", anyway? 11:50:36 a Realtek one too, you don't get more generic than that 11:50:46 how far under nominal does it get? 11:51:02 SamB: uhm... because it's sometimes an elf object? :p No idea, it's all Keskitalo's fault! 11:51:08 kilobyte, well, here win7 boxes successfully played HD video from cifs shares on the LAN 11:51:21 kilobyte: mind if I change it? 11:51:32 15-30KB/sec typically 11:51:43 it might leave people with an old .elf lying about, though... 11:51:49 only on CIFS, http works fine 11:52:08 is that client-side or server-side ? 11:52:40 Running into some new build issues on OSX Lion: https://gist.github.com/1284771 11:52:55 both I think, but it was a while since I tried 11:53:11 no Win7 machine nearby so I can't check 11:53:36 bmh: how do you want this resolved? 11:53:50 bmh: these files are basic libc :( 11:54:02 "done"? fixed in 0.10? 11:54:20 SamB: That works, as long as it gets closed. 11:54:35 kilobyte: I know! I should ask the guy who's doing the OSX builds 11:54:50 03dolorous * r991445aa3f9a 10/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc: Attempt to fix Mantis 4666. 11:55:04 bmh: the fixes are in the trunk? 11:55:22 SamB: Some incarnation of 'new abyss' is in 0.10 11:55:40 I don't recall if those patches are included verbatim. 11:56:13 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:19 and you are this "brendan" fellow? 11:57:11 SamB: In the flesh. 11:57:22 how do I know you aren't a robot? 11:58:08 Are you saying you're not a robot? 11:58:13 We need to reconfigure the biofilters. 11:58:40 Fyren: he seems to be implying that he is indeed a fleshling 11:59:02 possibly he is a cyborg of some kind 11:59:55 just do like it used to be done with witches: dunk him under water 12:00:04 If I was a cyborg, I wouldn't be experiencing jetlag. 12:00:16 bmh: how do you figure? 12:00:36 SamB: Because that would be entirely daft. 12:00:36 I expect the fleshy parts would experience such effects regardless 12:00:52 if a cyborg, he'll be either waterproof or not. If he's not waterproof, he'll short up and be gone. If he's waterproof, he'll be able to survive... so keep him for a time that's enough to kill a human. 12:01:13 if he's still alive, he's a cyborg so now you can execute him as a robotic mole 12:01:42 well, he could be not-waterproof but be capable of surviving with his implants shorted 12:01:48 Anyone know of a good example of changing floor types in lua? 12:01:54 but he would drown, obviously 12:02:19 SamB: if he'd drown, it proves he was a human. A destructive but reliable test :) 12:02:43 that's like solving the halting problem by running the program and checking if it halts :P 12:02:57 The idea is to make a vault with a pressure plate that turns the room into a "lava spiral" -- not dangerous on its own, but dangerous if you're being chased 12:03:07 Zaba: except it actually counts as a decision procedure 12:03:26 Zaba: it ends in a finite time: you can wait long enough so a human would for sure be dead 12:03:28 because we'd only be waiting for a human-drowning period 12:03:46 kilobyte: What distribution do human drowning times follow? 12:03:53 A good ol' cold water drowning can take hours. 12:04:12 seriously ? 12:04:35 you start suffering irreversible brain damage pretty quickly 12:04:46 Eronarn: Not in near-freezing water 12:05:39 but then, if you execute robots anyway, what's the difference? 12:06:04 kilobyte: If drowning times follow a cauchy distribution, you could be waiting forever 12:06:12 kilobyte: we were going to execute the *humans* 12:06:42 SamB: *pssst* they were not supposed to know our plan! 12:06:53 kilobyte: since when? 12:07:01 what are they going to do to stop us? 12:07:13 they think we're just joking around! 12:07:35 Other drowning fact: It's possible to drown without getting water in your lungs! 12:07:45 of course! 12:07:58 doesn't drowning just consist of running out of oxygen? 12:08:02 it's just a fancy name for asphyxiation, yeah 12:08:15 (without being choked) 12:08:26 Generally people think of it as involving water aspiration, though. 12:08:44 devs mark it as "resolved" when it's fixed.. people can still comment then. one option for the reporter to confirm is to mark "closed" 12:08:58 once it's "closed" there is no more commenting 12:10:22 kilobyte: What distribution do human drowning times follow? <--- typically unconciousness in 3-5 minutes, and permanent brain damage not long after that, actual death after 10-15 minutes IIRC 12:10:49 oh, I thought it was a serious question for game balancing or something 12:11:18 hahaha 12:12:06 if we were talking about actual game balancing, we'd be shouting and flaming each other, not playfully joking :p 12:12:19 kilobyte: Can we remove food from crawl? 12:12:27 drowning's a bit unrealistic in NetHack, it only ever lasts the one action even though your character can try several time-consuming reflex actions in response 12:12:36 bmh: actually, it could be a good idea 12:12:58 can we remove magic from crawl? it's a bit unrealistic 12:13:02 >.> 12:13:20 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperDrowningSkills 12:14:37 make food give intrinsics, but only allow the last food you ate to matter 12:14:44 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:20 like some kind of very long-lasting potion 12:15:43 kilobyte: tilegen doesn't seem to be using crawl's flags anyway... 12:15:53 can someone kickban Eronarn for trolling? :) 12:16:23 bmh: but i very rarely play trolls 12:16:35 Ernoran: Yeah, their food clock is too fast. 12:17:40 If you're serious about the 'remove food altogether' idea 12:17:50 You could make hunger-costs turn into glow-costs 12:18:04 dtsund: I am -- and I'd like to see something glow-like 12:18:18 They'd become tactical rather than strategic costs, but I'm not convinced that'd be a change for the worse 12:18:41 dtsund: they'd be strategic costs if you stacked the glow to mutation levels 12:19:00 Sure 12:19:10 That'd make !cure mutation serve the same role food does now, I guess 12:19:12 Does glow always give bad mutations? 12:19:15 do people /ever/ intentionally do that? 12:19:16 bmh: Yes. 12:19:21 glow is strategic. and mutations are far harder to cure than hunger 12:19:21 in current Crawl? 12:19:51 dtsund: While we're at it, we should drop Mountain Dorfs and add Ugly Things as a race! 12:20:08 * dtsund has been contemplating doing exactly this to food in Light, but not in the next version 12:20:28 I'm still waiting on that shapeshifter race 12:20:46 did someone seriously suggest removing food? sounds awesome, but would be so much work. 12:21:10 bmh suggested it, kilobyte said it might be a good idea 12:21:14 about... one page up 12:21:15 lots of code deletion 12:21:33 dtsund: To be fair, it was monqy who first floated the idea. 12:22:38 You'd have to get rid of respawning monsters if you got rid of food, naturally 12:23:18 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:27 dtsund: Why not just have the respawn monsters be tougher than the monsters on the next level? 12:23:38 bmh: Still scummable. 12:23:39 why not just remove all the upstairs 12:23:52 and connect branches in some other way 12:23:52 You'd alternate between this level and the next. 12:23:52 ais523: Xom likes this idea. 12:24:06 actually, that could be a good idea for a god 12:24:10 a god who dislikes backtracking 12:24:21 Trog hates retreat? :) 12:24:37 (it's an unofficial conduct in NetHack too that's popular enough to have a name, "alpine") 12:24:49 ais523: 12:24:51 ??ironrobin 12:24:51 ironman[1/6]: In the Ironman challenge you must take downstairs as soon as possible until you reach D:27, and then leave the dungeon alive. 12:25:11 ??lg 12:25:13 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/raw/master/docs/listgame.txt 12:25:20 Eronarn: not quite the same, but similar 12:25:29 !hs ironrobin 12:25:30 1383. IronRobin the Nimble (L13 SpVM), got out of the dungeon alive. on 2009-03-08, with 33129 points after 20130 turns and 2:51:55. 12:25:48 ??ttyrec 12:25:49 ttyrec[1/4]: Specialized format used to record Crawl (among other) games. Google to find a player for your favorite platform. CAO ttyrecs all games in http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata//. 12:26:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:26:21 'got out of the dungeon alive'? cheater 12:27:16 kilobyte: kilobyte why are we using tmpfile() in tilegen? 12:28:56 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:30:04 SamB: no idea 12:30:49 is there a problem with it though? Tilegen runs just once during compilation, it doesn't need to be too effective or secure. 12:31:11 kilobyte: it seems to be failing :-( 12:31:19 with a misleading error message 12:33:18 dtsund: If food was removed, what would become of mummies? 12:33:57 they could be immune to glow from spell costs instead 12:34:05 with some flavour handwave added 12:34:15 Their racial special would be that whatever kills them gets a curse. 12:34:24 dtsund: <3 12:34:32 that's way too powerful 12:35:18 no, clearly we should remove food but not the food clock 12:35:25 speaking of player deaths... I still have a serious bug to fix: when a monster wields Wyrmbane to kill a player felid, the weapon doesn't upgrade :( 12:36:04 the player is robbed of some extra Nemelex piety for saccing it! 12:36:26 (a bit increased chance to get the +1, that is) 12:43:33 you mean a player felid in dragonform I assume :P 12:44:08 03dolorous * r486039d386cc 10/crawl-ref/source/mon-grow.cc: Let gnolls level up into gnoll sergeants. 12:45:07 wow. dolorous is evil :( 12:45:27 (Gnolls scare me now) 12:50:27 meh, just don't let them gain xp 12:50:29 dtsund: You know what crawl needs? More mutations. 12:51:34 Crash on Orc 4/4 (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4735) by Xoff 12:53:41 yeah, those gnoll upgrades are annoying in zotdef! 12:55:41 @??gnoll sergeant 12:55:42 gnoll sergeant (10g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 16-35 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 9 | Flags: 07vault | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 86. 12:55:46 @??gnoll 12:55:46 gnoll (08g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 2 | Health: 8-18 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 9 | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 14. 12:55:51 not that much better 13:01:50 Eronarn: it's from before the upgrade 13:02:17 lemme update the "monster" tool 13:09:27 @??gnoll sergeant 13:09:28 gnoll sergeant (10g) | Speed: 10 | HD: 4 | Health: 17-35 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Damage: 11 | Res: 06magic(16) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 86. 13:09:39 not a big difference 13:11:58 gah wish i could build tiles 13:12:38 Mu_: Wish I could build 13:15:57 Mu_: what's your problem? 13:17:30 kilobyte: something to do with SDL 13:17:33 kilobyte: http://pastebin.com/5TBt8KEv 13:18:44 Mu_: Could try CONTRIB_SDL=y when you run make if you want more shot in the dark suggestions. 13:19:00 kilobyte: that's why *I'm* trying to build tiles in windows 13:19:15 but I hit different problems :-( 13:19:39 the worst part is I can't see why I didn't hit that 13:19:58 Fyren: well it gave me a different error, so there's that. 13:20:32 It could be anti-progress! 13:20:43 I was thinking CONTRIB_SDL might help, too, but that it would be cheating! 13:21:29 works for me both with system libs and with cross-compile to Windows, lemme test a Windows build 13:21:44 Snake Pit, Swamp and Shoals generated in the same game (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4736) by CommanderC 13:24:07 03SamB * re668a4518a41 10/crawl-ref/ (.gitignore source/rltiles/Makefile): Do the "CFLAGS difference check" dance for rltiles/tool/tilegen, too. 13:26:07 03SamB * rff2e350639fc 10/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/Makefile: Add DEBUG=y support to rltiles/Makefile. 13:30:25 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:22 ... no wonder my document is taking so long to print ... 13:32:29 printer was out of paper! 13:33:02 * SamB has to go 13:36:07 03dolorous * r44a6415ec0d2 10/crawl-ref/source/ (enum.h mutation-data.h): Resort the tentacle spike mutation on next major version bump. 13:36:17 03dolorous * r4978cf7bb599 10/crawl-ref/source/ (mutation-data.h mutation.cc): Add another tentacle spike mutation-related fix. 13:37:36 tentacle spikes? ooh 13:38:32 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:50 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:57 Spider Form vs. Levitation - Levitating spider next to wall doesn't auto-cling. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4737) by XuaXua 14:02:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:21 -!- Varsovie_crawl has left ##crawl-dev 14:09:55 -!- RichardHawk has quit [Quit: Recalculating TATARI at "the crossing crossing"] 14:10:11 ??bad ideas 14:10:12 bad ideas[1/3483]: To read this whole list, visit http://crawl.akrasiac.org/learndb.html#bad_ideas. To read ortoslon's selection of ~150 favorites, visit http://sites.google.com/site/cherrypickedbadideas/ 14:10:30 03Keskitalo * r81df4ca704f5 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt: Describe bears as getting angry when afraid, not when provoked (addressess #4728). 14:11:03 !learn bad_ideas New variants of berserkitis: immolationitis, tormentitis, silencitis, tonsilitis. 14:11:16 !!learn bad_ideas New variants of berserkitis: immolationitis, tormentitis, silencitis, tonsilitis. 14:11:20 * bmh does it wrong. 14:11:26 learn add 14:11:34 I don't know about !learn bad_ideas. 14:13:11 -itis is actually usually used for inflammations 14:13:22 inflammation of the berserk 14:15:49 !learn add bad_ideas New variants of berserkitis: immolationitis, tormentitis, silencitis, tonsilitis. 14:15:49 bad ideas[3484/3484]: New variants of berserkitis: immolationitis, tormentitis, silencitis, tonsilitis. 14:20:03 if tormentitis were area effect, it might actually be interesting 14:20:12 probably gamebreakingly bad anyway, but still hilarious 14:23:53 'zerkitis is already pretty bad 14:25:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:12 Should be a Xom-exclusive mutation 14:30:24 He adds it, and then removes it a short time later 14:34:29 either that, or it triggers so often that you're basically playing HoH (I wonder how well that would work in Crawl?) 14:35:18 Heaven or Hell? 14:35:23 Catastrophically. 14:35:58 ...hm. 14:36:18 You'd be forced into either Elyvilon worship or racing to cast Death's Door, I'd think. 14:37:32 Even porting Angel of Max Carnage to Crawl would lead to many instadeaths. 14:47:31 what does that do again? 14:47:41 the whole /point/ of HoH is that it's full of instadeaths, ofc 14:48:14 -!- bmh has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:49:08 Angel of Max Carnage removes randomness. 14:49:27 Attacks are nearly guaranteed to hit, regardless of base accuracy, and all damage rolls are maximum. 14:50:33