00:03:25 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1263-gc6be924 (32)
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00:18:46 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1263-gc6be924
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01:12:08 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1263-gc6be924 (32)
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01:48:35 <due> hm
01:48:40 <due> okay good no messages yay
01:58:43 <Zaba> moin
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04:06:24 <Napkin> moin guys
04:06:27 <Napkin> kilobyte, are you in?
04:06:39 <Napkin> CDO is having another 99% ee process
04:07:50 <bhaak> i've always said those non vi-keys supporting editors are no good ;-)
04:08:25 <BlastHardcheese> s/vi-keys supporting/emacs/
04:09:06 <Napkin> well.. it just hangs.. can't get anything out of step/bt
04:09:16 <Napkin> doupdate(), wget_wch()...
04:11:29 <bhaak> hmm, maybe a disconnect?
04:19:35 <bhaak> where is the source for this updated ee?
04:20:08 <bhaak> nvm, found the branch
04:25:25 <bhaak> Napkin: yepp, disconnect. just tried it with putty.  ee test -> close putty windows -> ee goes ballistic
04:27:41 <Napkin> hmm... was the dgamelaunch process still alive when you disconnected?
04:29:30 <Napkin> no, dgamelaunch closes properly and ee is attached to init
04:29:35 <bhaak> didn't try it with dgamelaunch, just plain shell
04:29:50 <bhaak> yes, parent-id got set to 1
04:31:10 <Napkin> hmm..
04:31:10 <bhaak> somewhere it must neglect to check for an error returning (we have the same error in vanilla nethack) or maybe even some signed/unsigned messup as EOF is usually -1
04:31:26 <Napkin> virus on the other hand keeps dgamelaunch open :-O
04:31:45 <Napkin> and also doesn't cause 99% usage
04:32:30 <bhaak> when you disconnect?
04:32:35 <Napkin> yes
04:32:39 <bhaak> how can it do that?
04:32:51 <Napkin> i'm baffled as well
04:34:18 <Napkin> maybe virus kept the FDs open?
04:36:33 <bhaak> hmm, you get a SIGHUP when the terminal closes
04:36:41 <bhaak> virus catches that
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04:37:23 <bhaak> but that doesn't explain why dgamelaunch is still around
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04:48:06 <bhaak> ha, first thing ee does when started up, is ignore all signals but a few special ones :-)
04:48:21 <bhaak> line 426.
04:48:29 <Zaba> that's nice
04:48:58 <bhaak> we should just burn all C code that has been handed down to use from the 80s and 90s :)
04:51:48 <bhaak> lol, found the bug :-)
04:52:29 <bhaak> one should check the right variable for the error condition :)
04:53:21 <bhaak> Napkin: http://pastebin.com/eUmTgrPw
04:53:33 <bhaak> so obvious, but easily overlooked
04:55:16 <Napkin> great, let's try :)
04:56:52 <Napkin> omg, 1 liner patch failed :-O
04:56:53 <Napkin> Hunk #1 FAILED at 486.
04:57:15 <bhaak> probably whitespace, try with -l
04:57:31 <bhaak> i copy&pasted it out of a terminal window
04:57:31 <Napkin> oh, true
04:57:45 <Napkin> -l  or  --ignore-whitespace
04:57:47 <Napkin> good to know :)
04:58:51 <Napkin> uhm... "Fix ... what?!", bhaak? :D
04:58:57 <Napkin> input key checking?
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04:59:55 <bhaak> typo :)
05:00:02 <bhaak> the real reason is loooooooooooooong
05:00:03 <Napkin> hehe
05:00:03 <Gretell> OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1214-g92a3a48
05:00:25 <bhaak> fix 100% CPU usage due to fail to check correct variable for error condition
05:01:01 <bhaak> ... which wouldn't be necessary if the program didn't ignores almost all POSIX signals :)
05:03:02 <Napkin> works :)
05:03:25 <bhaak> yay
05:04:25 <Napkin> thank you very much, bhaak :)
05:04:38 <kilobyte> bhaak: <3
05:04:48 <bhaak> np, i had something more important to do but didn't feel like :)
05:04:51 <Napkin> virus and ee just closed on disconnect successfully :)
05:05:10 <Napkin> hehe, nach jedem strohhalm greifend? ;D
05:05:18 <Napkin> I know the feeling!
05:06:08 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * r7528ae825b9a 10/crawl-ref/source/util/ (levcomp.lpp levcomp.ypp): Put AppHdr.h in yacc sources to the front, to make PCH happy.
05:06:16 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * ra7ca20b90593 10/crawl-ref/source/prebuilt/ (levcomp.lex.cc levcomp.tab.cc levcomp.tab.h): Regenerate the prebuilt yaccage.
05:06:51 <Napkin> http://git.develz.org/?p=dgamelaunch.git;a=commit;h=ec09279
05:07:09 <bhaak> the work i just procrastinated involves writing some boring e-mails, but meh
05:07:16 <Napkin> hmm, i could have set an author instead
05:07:21 <Napkin> oh well, next time :)
05:08:14 <Napkin> I have to check another 21 C3P hosts for SeOS errors and warning-mode.. just as much fun ;)
05:09:17 <Napkin> I had no other choice than to zip up Dungeon of Dredmor and finally give it a try!
05:09:20 <Napkin> anyone played that yet?
05:09:22 <bhaak> there's also a new release of brogue
05:10:26 <bhaak> not yet, i try to keep away from addictive stuff atm, so i can catch up with my todos
05:10:51 <Napkin> 3 difficulty levels - "Elves just want to have fun", "Dwarvish Moderation" and "Going Rogue"
05:11:31 <Napkin> and.. omg.. going rogue seems insane to me... 4 games out of 5 I don't even survive the second room (first room being usually empty)
05:12:29 <Napkin> more than 1 enemy close to the door I just opened? -> dead
05:12:37 <Napkin> what am I doing wrong?!
05:13:26 <Napkin> uuh, big brogue release!
05:13:42 <Napkin> let's gitify it!
05:16:12 <ghallberg> I always think brogu is some kind of low brow rogue version with jocks and guidos
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05:50:38 <alefury> hi
06:14:59 <alefury> are items pushed in shoals?
06:15:01 <alefury> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1592
06:15:01 <alefury> maybe that could be closed
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06:25:42 <alefury> also i think something was done about this one:
06:25:42 <alefury> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2912
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06:46:12 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * rf1b51a9e8c67 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-wanderer.cc: Don't give Tmut wanderers a pure Earth spell.
06:46:13 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * r99e040bec733 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/zotdef/zotdef.des: De-tab and reindent.
06:46:13 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * r08f4d04f92d1 10/crawl-ref/source/describe.cc: Fix description of Hunger- artefacts (neil).
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09:07:10 <Napkin> apache going down for a minute
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09:18:19 <Xiberia> are rings of levitation no longer supposed to allow you to train evocations in trunk?
09:18:23 <Xiberia> or should i make a bug report
09:19:13 <alefury> doesnt sound intentional, they do use evo. so i would file a bug report.
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09:46:40 <Napkin> ok, first step upgrade of wordpress is done
09:46:45 <Napkin> next step tomorrow
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09:57:46 <paxed> Napkin: moar commits in dgl svn. btw, there's #dgamelaunch ...
10:02:23 <Napkin> oh!
10:02:31 <Napkin> a new commit in CDO's repo as well
10:02:42 <Napkin> fix for external ee taking 99% from bhaak this morning
10:02:53 <Napkin> i'm a bit busy at the moment though
10:04:54 <SamB> anyone know who grandpa is or how to tell him about the bazaar bug being fixed ?
10:05:19 <mikee_> evilmike knows him
10:05:50 <mikee_> he is an SA player i think
10:06:00 <SamB> something awful ?
10:06:18 <SamB> special agent?
10:06:48 <paxed> Napkin: yup, already committed the unicode ee, and bhaak's fix.
10:07:02 <Ashenzari> Throw missile at hidden secret door embeds missile in wall (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4727) by XuaXua
10:07:24 <SamB> oh, how delightful!
10:08:33 <mikee_> yes something awful :)
10:10:09 <SamB> why did refrigeration get nerfed and moved up to level 6 at the same time ?
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10:19:06 <alefury> SamB: its very strong for a level 6 spell
10:19:13 <SamB> oh
10:19:29 <SamB> so it was just way-underleveled before ?
10:20:20 <alefury> i guess, i think i only used it at level 6
10:21:46 <alefury> its a bit situational, it is only really good with a lot of enemies in sight
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10:32:28 <|amethyst> hm... I'm looking into the missiles in secret doors thing and I'm not sure why it's happenning... it looks like the ray should be regressed to the square in front of the door, since secret doors satisfy feat_is_solid
10:34:38 <SamB> |amethyst: did you step through the code ?
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10:38:40 <|amethyst> SamB:  not with a debugger, yet
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11:01:42 <|amethyst> utterly insane
11:02:14 <|amethyst> somehow the first branch of bolt::affects_wall is being taken, and returning true, even though flavour == BEAM_MISSILE and not BEAM_DIGGING
11:02:35 <|amethyst> AHA
11:02:39 <|amethyst> misplaced paren
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11:03:26 <Zaba> hah, nice
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11:05:57 <|amethyst> submitting patch
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11:09:34 <|amethyst> ok, submitted
11:10:20 <|amethyst> and now I have to go to work :)
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12:11:15 <Mu_> name_replace seems to be implying name_definite, can you unlink them somehow
12:11:47 <Mu_> if i use name_replace i get "The Steve the Cloud Mage," if i don't use name replace i get "Steve the Cloud Mage the wizard" so i can't win
12:12:03 <SamB> Mu_: first, we'd need to grep everywhere else that uses name_replace
12:12:16 <Mu_> name_replace shouldn't be adding that leading 'The' anyway, according to the documentation
12:12:30 <Mu_> that should be the sole domain of name_definite
12:12:31 <SamB> hmm
12:12:55 <Mu_> it used to work like that too because i've fixed this name bug more than once
12:13:07 <Eronarn> once we fix 'the', someone should add a compile time option to break it
12:13:08 <Henzell> Eronarn: You have 40 messages. Use !messages to read them.
12:13:10 <SamB> oh, bisect it then?
12:13:11 <Eronarn> so that future generations can experience it
12:13:29 <Mu_> i mean, fixed it within the vault as much as you can. i'm not a programmer.
12:13:50 <Eronarn> but you just said you made a vault!!
12:13:52 <SamB> Mu_: Is there a version where the C++ did what you say it should be doing ?
12:14:06 <SamB> Eronarn: he means he doesn't know C++
12:14:39 <Mu_> let me check my commit history
12:14:52 <Eronarn> i was talking to some compsci students and they were like O_O when i told them i know C++
12:15:04 <Eronarn> it was pretty funny
12:15:05 <SamB> they probably only get taught Java now
12:15:18 <Eronarn> nah, they're phds
12:15:21 <SamB> well, maybe Scheme and stuff
12:15:30 <SamB> oh, that's different then
12:15:59 <Eronarn> they're just used to social scientists not knowing computers at all
12:16:06 <SamB> oh!
12:16:12 <Mu_> commit 47d37c292ba5d4c350a5118e77602409f7ba8aa9      Fix 'the Tonodo the Cloud Mage'.
12:16:12 <SamB> I was missing that part
12:16:22 <Mu_> so um whatever version that commit was. it was 21/09/2010
12:16:28 <Eronarn> Mu_: The Tornado, the Cloud Mage
12:16:49 <SamB> Eronarn: kidding, yes?
12:17:02 <Eronarn> SamB: no way. masked wrestler cloud mage
12:17:24 <Eronarn> his proper name is The Tornado
12:17:39 <Mu_> For example:
12:17:44 <Mu_> oops
12:18:16 <Eronarn> did anyone remove beaks from octos yet
12:18:30 <Eronarn> they should lose them for .10 even if they don't get constriction or reaching
12:18:38 <Mu_> For example:    MONS: kobold name:goblin name_replace
12:18:38 <Mu_> Will result in "goblin hits you". However, adding name_descriptor from the above flags will result in "The goblin hits you" and in the description of the monster, "A goblin".
12:18:49 <Mu_> so that's how the documentation says it should work, no 'The' with just name_replace
12:20:21 <Eronarn> we should have a unique that summons past and future versions
12:20:29 <Eronarn> foo the elder, foo the younger
12:21:43 <SamB> Mu_: anyway, someone should put a vault like that in a new file (unknown to git) and run "git bisect 47d37c292ba5d4c350a5118e77602409f7ba8aa9"
12:22:26 <SamB> preferably set to generate at D:1 with high weight
12:23:01 <SamB> then rebuild crawl and test the vault wherever bisect brings them
12:23:18 <SamB> and run "git bisect good"/"git bisect bad" as appropriate
12:23:34 <SamB> Mu_: are you set up to compile?
12:24:05 <Mu_> yes but this is a bit above my head so i'm just going to write up what i know on the mantis issue about it
12:30:21 <SamB> sure, but include that commit hash!
12:30:28 <Mu_> oki
12:30:34 <SamB> and an example vault would be nice
12:30:54 <SamB> (can just be in <pre>, no need to attach)
12:31:33 <Mu_> you can see it in either the cloud mage or hellbinder wizlab since both feature renamed enemies of this type, &Pwizlab>cloud
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12:31:51 <SamB> fine
12:35:21 <Mu_> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4718 it's this one
12:35:28 <Mu_> oh that reminds me i need to figure out where to put tiles
12:48:54 <Mu_> er, how do i compile a tiles build?
12:50:56 <Fyren> What OS?
12:51:23 <Mu_> vista
12:51:44 <Fyren> With MingW or MSVC?
12:51:50 <Mu_> mingw
12:52:09 <Fyren> make TILES=y should work.
12:52:22 <Mu_> oki i tried that and it just produced a ton of errors and stopped
12:52:55 <blabber> you have to satisfy the dependencies
12:53:23 <blabber> they are described in the install documentation iirc
12:56:55 <Fyren> I thought everything was in the submodules and would get built.
12:57:01 <Fyren> Could try make clean first.
12:57:56 <blabber> ah right. i forgot the submodules.
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12:59:15 <Mu_> http://pastebin.com/6T4pDxa6 just gets to there
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13:01:29 <Mu_> hi varsovie thanks for the cloud mage tile, i'm trying to commit it now
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13:02:48 * SamB takes a look at Mu_'s paste
13:03:51 <SamB> Mu_: hmm, do you have the git submodules?
13:04:28 <Mu_> yep
13:04:34 <SamB> including SDL?
13:04:47 <Mu_> submodule update does nothing so i assume they're up to date
13:04:53 <Mu_> yep
13:05:08 <SamB> okay, can you paste your ENTIRE make output ?
13:05:22 <SamB> you can run make again first, though, if you want something shorter
13:05:27 <SamB> I think
13:07:14 <Mu_> http://pastebin.com/avnPjkM8 this ok?
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13:23:34 <Fyren> Did you try a make clean?  It looks like building the SDL submodule should copy the headers.
13:24:12 <Mu_> that's the output following a make clean.
13:30:01 <Fyren> Could try make TILES=y BUILD_ALL=y but at this point I'm blindly guessing.
13:30:38 <Mu_> dies in the same spot.
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13:33:42 <Fyren> I don't have mingw to test, building tiles on my Linux system fails for a different reason, heh.
13:33:51 <Mu_> :)
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13:48:12 <Ashenzari> allow non-developers to make "Source Cleanup" issues (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4729) by reid
13:48:12 <Ashenzari> Scroll of fear should not make bears go beserk (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4728) by Happylisk
13:50:28 <Mu_> !tell due http://pastebin.com/avnPjkM8 any idea why i can't seem to make tiles?
13:50:29 <Henzell> Mu_: OK, I'll let due know.
13:55:20 <SamB> Mu_: could you run "make TILES=y V=y" ?
13:58:08 <Mu_> oki one moment
13:58:15 <Ashenzari> Autoexplore can ID amulets of stasis for free (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4730) by rriegs
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14:00:10 <Mu_> http://pastebin.com/A5mVNgbu
14:00:16 <ais523> hmm, bug 4730 is interesting, because people complain about the opposite in Ace (that they can't step into water without a prompt while wearing water walking boots, etc)
14:00:20 <ais523> I'm not sure where the best balance is
14:05:32 <SamB> Mu_: that's odd!
14:06:18 <Mu_> :(
14:07:06 <SamB> what does "uname -s" print ?
14:07:33 <Mu_> MINGW32_NT-6.0
14:09:06 * SamB doesn't get why -I/mingw/include/SDL is being passed
14:10:01 <dtsund> ais523: The difference is
14:10:17 <dtsund> In Crawl, it'd almost never be a good idea even if the game let you.
14:10:30 <dtsund> It's a good idea in NetHack much, much more often.
14:10:40 <ais523> dtsund: oh, I think you misinterpreted my point
14:10:50 <ais523> I was comparing walking on water with WW boots in NetHack to walking over a teletrap with stasis in Crawl
14:11:00 <dtsund> Oh.
14:11:04 <ais523> which are both things that you might reasonably want to do in their respective games
14:11:35 <dtsund> Yeah, maybe I should actually look at the bugs before I comment.
14:11:47 <dtsund> At least I don't have to fix that particular one in Light...
14:12:01 <Fyren> SamB: It should be contrib/install/mingw/include/SDL?
14:13:39 <dpeg> Is ammunition enchantment buggy?
14:13:43 <SamB> Mu_: could you run again with --print-data-base? (You might want to redirect to a file, though.)
14:13:48 <dpeg> As you read the scroll of enchant weapon I, it crumbles to dust.
14:13:49 <dpeg> _Your hands very briefly gain a green sheen.
14:14:08 <Mu_> SamB, how do i redirect to a file?
14:14:30 <dtsund> Mu_: `command` > filename.fil
14:14:49 <SamB> what's with the backticks?
14:14:52 <dtsund> (backquotes not necessary, just meant to illustrate where teh command goes)
14:16:04 <Mu_> large file
14:16:41 <ais523> dtsund: but backticks have a meaning in shell, so it's best not to use them
14:16:54 <ais523> I might write it as «command» > filename.fil
14:17:01 <ais523> because «» obviously aren't part of what you're meant to write
14:18:05 <Mu_> http://pastebin.com/gGsKDp6M
14:18:08 <Mu_> hope i did that right
14:19:44 <blabber> hi crawlers. i was lagging behind but i just submitted the 0.9.1 port for FreeBSD. thanks for another nice release :)
14:20:31 <dpeg> blabber: nice, many thanks
14:21:43 <SamB> Mu_: that looks like what I wanted, yeah
14:30:59 <Fyren> Where does stuff like CONTRIB_SDL get set?  Or do you have to do it manually?
14:32:03 <SamB> it's not supposed to need to be manual
14:32:56 <SamB> now, I want to know why --print-data-base is not working for our main Makefile :-(
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14:33:07 <Fyren> I dunno if it's strung together somewhere, but a grep for CONTRIB_SDL only hits mac/mac-release-tiles-build
14:34:45 <Fyren> It's not set for him in any case and I guess it should be.
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14:35:52 <dpeg> !seen kilobyte
14:35:53 <Henzell> I last saw kilobyte at Wed Oct 12 10:04:38 2011 UTC (9h 31m 15s ago) saying bhaak: <3 on ##crawl-dev.
14:36:26 <dpeg> !seen bhaak
14:36:26 <Henzell> I last saw bhaak at Wed Oct 12 10:10:10 2011 UTC (9h 26m 16s ago) saying not yet, i try to keep away from addictive stuff atm, so i can catch up with my todos on ##crawl-dev.
14:36:36 <Fyren> dpeg: How'd you enchant your hands?  Can you repeat it?
14:36:58 <bhaak> just so no rumors get started, i fixed a bug kilobyte introduced in his unicode ee.
14:37:16 <bhaak> you know how emotional programmers get when you fix their bugs
14:38:39 <SamB> Fyren: it doesn't actually mean anything HAPPENED
14:39:04 <Fyren> I know, but it should say you're not wielding anything.
14:39:09 <Fyren> And it does when I just tested.
14:39:51 <SamB> but he was!
14:40:40 <Fyren> He didn't actually say he was, though me mentioned ammo enchantment.
14:42:48 <dpeg> Fyren: wield arrows and read EW I.
14:43:29 <dpeg> Fyren: I double checked that I had Wp: arrows
14:48:42 <Fyren> Oh, my tree was stale.  Yeah, when it was changed to auto ID EW, it broke.
14:49:18 <dpeg> Bug!
14:49:24 <dpeg> Thanks for looking into this.
14:49:35 <dpeg> Fyren: you tested with new trunk? (My game was on CDO)
14:49:52 <Fyren> Yeah.
14:50:04 <dpeg> thanks, will file
14:50:20 <dpeg> oh, is it possible to enchant a wielded weapon?
14:51:29 <Fyren> Yeah, but... the HUD doesn't seem to update immediately?
15:05:48 <dpeg> Fyren: can you give the current version number, please?
15:06:18 <Fyren> 0.10-a0-1268-g08f4d04
15:06:49 <dpeg> thank you
15:08:37 <Ashenzari> Enchanting wielded ammunition fails (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4731) by dpeg
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15:24:28 <kilobyte> bhaak: except for it being a brown paper bag bug (so indeed shameful), you did the fix half an hour after Nap King reported it, before I had a chance to look at IRC in the morning
15:24:56 <kilobyte> it's not a case of "how did you dare to insinuate my code is not perfect", but "thanks for looking at it!"
15:25:23 <kilobyte> especially in a quick-and-dirty change in pre-K&R code from 1978
15:25:24 <dpeg> kilobyte: evenings!
15:25:30 * kilobyte meows at dpeg.
15:25:56 <kilobyte> dpeg: I looked at the nausea thing, and have a few doubts
15:26:01 <dpeg> okay, tell me
15:26:34 <kilobyte> 1. it either does too little or too much, and 2. there's a bad overlap with sickness
15:26:40 <dpeg> I read that you don't like the guaranteed nutrition, but gameplay > realism. The newbie trap is real. We can remove it in other ways (e.g. with messages) but they seem more complicated.
15:27:09 <kilobyte> with the latter, I wonder if we really need two afflictions that are mostly the same
15:27:20 <dpeg> I don't see why they're the same.
15:27:36 <kilobyte> only two monsters and side effects of one spell cause sickness
15:28:02 <kilobyte> we could axe it completely in favour of nausea, and bump the monsters in some other way
15:28:10 <dpeg> ah, I see what you mean
15:28:20 <dpeg> Let's ask: when is Sick or Nausea relevant?
15:28:38 <dpeg> Nausea is supposed to make you sometimes prefer permafood over brown chunk, that is at least something.
15:28:49 <kilobyte> Nausea pretty much never if you got that nutrition
15:28:55 <dpeg> SIck is only interesting in tactical situations.
15:29:09 <kilobyte> so I'd steal at least the chance to lower your stats
15:29:15 <dpeg> So having sickness-inducing monsters seems much better than sickness-inducing food.
15:29:22 <dpeg> kilobyte: sure, that is fine
15:30:44 <dpeg> kilobyte: the first stat loss could hit right away, now that players get the nutrition for free.
15:31:46 <dpeg> Fyren: you rock!
15:32:20 <Eronarn> dpeg: make sickness much shorter dur, but blcok healing and eating and potion use? :)
15:32:33 <kilobyte> not sure if the natural recovery is short enough for guaranteed stat loss
15:32:45 <kilobyte> (and that deep dwarves find enough potions)
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15:32:57 <kilobyte> Eronarn: could work
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15:33:22 <kilobyte> dpeg: about monsters -- so you'd keep the no-regen sickness even if it'd take two separate effects, right?
15:34:18 <ais523> Pokémon Mystery Dungeon has an effect that's effectively no-regen as a /level/ effect, not a status effect
15:34:29 <ais523> although it also disallows backtracking so you can't just backtrack to heal
15:35:09 <dpeg> kilobyte: yes, it will be interesting for monsters
15:35:24 <dpeg> ais523: sounds great for a portal vault
15:35:27 <Eronarn> kilobyte: i think two status effects is fine, though i might make sickness always imply nausea
15:35:39 <Eronarn> just so you are never sick-but-not-nauseous
15:35:39 <ais523> dpeg: aha, indeed
15:36:07 <dpeg> kilobyte: okay, so have some chance (1/3 say) for immediate stat loss and call it a day?
15:36:08 <ais523> a portal vault that full heals you (HP+MP) on entry but disallows HP regen while inside (should probably still allow MP regen) would be pretty interesting
15:37:04 <dpeg> ais523: I agree
15:37:25 <dpeg> ais523: could disallow MP regen too. If the vault is permanent, players could bring !magic, for example.
15:37:56 <ais523> disallowing MP regen would be too dependent on player build, I think
15:38:20 <Eronarn> a vault with a no-regen field would be pretty cool
15:38:38 <ais523> nah, it'd just encourage "stairdancing", but horizontally
15:38:42 <ais523> as dpeg says, it'd have to be a portal vault
15:40:00 <SamB> hmm ... that gives me an idea: how about ysalamiri?
15:40:01 <dpeg> portal vault are a great playing ground for additional rules
15:40:07 <dpeg> SamB: what is that?
15:40:48 <Fyren> Apparently something from Star Wars.  Think he's suggesting a creature like a silent spectre, except it prevents regen.
15:40:51 <SamB> they generate a bubble-shaped field where you can't use The Force
15:40:59 * dpeg just conquered the triple polearm bailey on a pure ranger!
15:41:03 <SamB> oh, silent spectres already do that?
15:41:19 <dpeg> SamB: the spectres prevent casting, as the name suggests :)
15:41:28 <Eronarn> tome apparently added a portal vault which has a *real time* effect
15:41:32 * SamB was thinking that bolts would stop on hitting the bubble, actually
15:41:33 <dpeg> Eronarn: huh?
15:41:40 <Eronarn> dpeg: the engine supports real time games, too
15:41:54 <Eronarn> so it's a normal RL except you get to one level and then suddenly some stuff is happening in real time
15:42:32 <dpeg> Eronarn: only judging from hearsay but that sounds about as good to me as NH's sokoban implementation :)
15:42:58 <Eronarn> dpeg: it's meant to be a semi-cosmetic effect for flavor reasons... it hurts you, but cannot kill you (and there are no monsters around). just something to make you jump
15:43:04 <Eronarn> it has more in common with our disco hall
15:43:08 <dpeg> ah, okay
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15:48:49 <Ashenzari> typo in mon-gear.cc (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4732) by reid
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15:59:11 * SamB discovers the problem with missle enchantment
15:59:23 <kilobyte> abl-show.cc:6:20: warning: AppHdr.h.gch: created by a different GCC executable [enabled by default]
15:59:56 <SamB> kilobyte: you could make clean, or you could just not worry
16:00:14 <kilobyte> yeah, I just wonder how to fix that in general
16:00:23 <dpeg> elliptic and I have been talking about "GS (guardian spirit). It seems underpowered but has potential. Any objections to applying a new formula? (One MP would still substitute one HP, but you'd not pay with MP upfront all the time, but use a different ration.)
16:00:30 <dpeg> *ratio
16:00:54 <dtsund> That seems more like a nerf...
16:01:20 <kilobyte> SamB: just "make clean" is not enough... ccache stores the old version and substitutes it
16:01:59 <SamB> kilobyte: really ?
16:02:08 <SamB> I thought it included the compiler binary in the hash
16:02:16 <kilobyte> dtsund: if the ratio would depend on your current hp (and approach 100% as hp go to 0), it'd be nice
16:02:34 <dtsund> As someone who favors pure casters and hybrids, I usually would be unwilling to sacrifice any of my MP for a slight reduction in HP damage.  I always thought of it as a fighter's amulet, and *they'd* rather lose their MP first.
16:03:14 <dtsund> kilobyte: Perhaps it could make all attacks only take you to 1 HP as long as you have MP remaining, then burn through the MP, then kill you
16:03:19 <dtsund> That might be worthwhile
16:03:36 <ZorbaBeta> dtsund, one of my recent games was a TrMo of Makhleb. I couldn't use GS because I sometimes needed mana for summons, but I never used *all* my mana
16:03:47 <ZorbaBeta> if I could have capped GS at half my mana it would have been a great amulet
16:03:48 <MarvinPA> even mostly-pure fighters often have emergency buttons (evocables or god abilities) that rely on mp, which i think is a lot of what discourages people from using it
16:04:21 <MarvinPA> absorbing some hp damage is nice but not if it means you can't use self-banishment or evoke blink or sanctuary or whatever in a real emergency
16:04:33 <Fyren> Would make it evokable to choose an MP threshold to turn off at be too complex?
16:04:37 <Fyren> Making.
16:05:04 <kilobyte> Fyren: I'd rather not make the in-game behaviour rely on your settings
16:05:10 <MarvinPA> sounds a bit too micromanagey, yeah
16:05:18 <SamB> kilobyte: I think he meant you could configure it in-game
16:05:26 <SamB> with no settings file
16:05:31 <dpeg> kilobyte: what we came up with is the ration currentHP : currentMP
16:05:33 <kilobyte> Fyren: automatism (like autopickup): yeah.  But the behaviour of things that don't take your input: not really.
16:06:09 <SamB> "you find a switch on the back"
16:06:13 <kilobyte> dpeg: ie, taking from both proportionally?  Sounds like the best way.
16:06:17 * dpeg should really learn to type "ratio"
16:06:27 <dpeg> kilobyte: yes. If you're low on HP, it'll draw more MP.
16:06:48 <dpeg> MarvinPA: what do you think?
16:06:58 <MarvinPA> that sounds pretty nice, yeah
16:07:20 <dpeg> MarvinPA: could you, umm, implement it? (I can't, otherwise I'd do it. Really!)
16:08:21 <MarvinPA> heh, i can take a look :P
16:08:39 <MarvinPA> doomrl's been distracting me from crawl recently, it's pretty fun
16:08:47 <Fyren> I'm not sure if that changes the fundamental issue of taking your mana when you need it most.
16:08:49 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:09:02 <Fyren> But it moves it off a bit.
16:09:17 <SamB> so, are staves supposed to be EW-able?
16:09:32 <ZorbaBeta> fyren, I think there are a lot of builds that fundamentally won't use all their mana ever
16:09:36 <dpeg> Why is everyone playing DoomRL? That game's been around for a while. (elliptic said the same to me :) Is it due to the podcast?
16:09:37 <Fyren> SamB: I think only to remove curse.
16:09:57 <dpeg> MarvinPA: I hope you come back with good ideas for Crawl!
16:09:59 <Fyren> ZorbaBeta: But then those wouldn't mind the old way?
16:09:59 <kilobyte> MarvinPA: how do you handle switching between roguelikes?  For me, I can't play correctly for literally months after playing another one :(
16:10:16 <ZorbaBeta> fyren, there's a gap between "all their mana" and "any mana"
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16:10:21 <MarvinPA> heh, i find myself desperately missing lots of crawl features
16:10:27 <MarvinPA> mainly interface conveniences
16:10:31 <Fyren> ZorbaBeta: If you lose "all your mana" immediately you have other problems.
16:10:31 <ZorbaBeta> as I said, with my troll, I'd often pop a makhleb bolt or two or maybe a summon, or two if things got super-crazy
16:10:41 <dpeg> MarvinPA: that's the other way, what to tell epyon! I am interesting in ideas for Crawl =)
16:10:41 <ZorbaBeta> but that's 25mp at most, out of my ~50mp
16:10:56 <MarvinPA> heh :P
16:11:03 <MarvinPA> yeah, i'm keeping an eye out for things :)
16:11:06 <dpeg> cool
16:11:12 <ZorbaBeta> if I get hit by a few dudes, that's 50hp damage, and all my mana is gone. so, no guardian spirit amulet for me
16:11:46 <dpeg> ZorbaBeta: yes, we know. But as I said, the amulet has appeal, it increases your HP pool, after all. Just need to be more clever about the ratio.
16:12:00 <kilobyte> dpeg: should it always take 100% MP if it would kill you, or do we not care that much?
16:12:09 <ZorbaBeta> dpeg, yeah, I'm responding to fyren and explaining why I like this idea
16:12:22 <SamB> kilobyte: that would be best, given the name
16:12:39 <dpeg> kilobyte: sounds good to me, yes
16:13:20 <kilobyte> like, you have 50/300hp 50/50mp -- with your formula it would still use a 50%:50% split
16:13:33 <dpeg> elliptic mentioned that the swap-in effect of "GS (sets MP to 0) might also keep players from using it. But I don't know if I like a non-caster swap in "GS as an emergency measure. So I'd keep it.
16:13:38 <kilobyte> perhaps "percent of hp to percent of mp"?
16:14:22 <dpeg> kilobyte: actually, there shouldn't be a problem with my formula
16:14:50 <dpeg> it treats currentHP+currentMP as one pool. Should just make sure that rounding goes the way if after damage a single point is left, it goes to HP not MP.
16:15:45 <dpeg> not sure anybody can understand that sentence =)
16:15:56 <kilobyte> hmm you're right
16:17:33 <dpeg> kilobyte: the *nicest* solution for the player would be to deduct all HP until 1 and only then use MP. But we won't do that.
16:18:12 <ZorbaBeta> dpeg, actually, I sort of like being able to tap into the generally-far-higher MP regeneration. It's like a free cast of Regen without the hunger
16:19:09 <Fyren> Splitting the damage gets you the best result because both regens work from the very start.
16:19:36 <Fyren> From just the perspective of you getting beat on and not needing the mana for something else.
16:19:53 <bhaak> kilobyte: that's how i meant it :-) i would LOVE it if i just had to write code and others would debug it and sent me fixes :-D
16:20:18 <dpeg> good points on regen, let's go with the currentHP : currentMP then
16:20:32 <dtsund> dpeg: I thought the MP to 0 effect was for deep dorfs
16:20:42 <dtsund> So they couldn't keep swapping it on and off
16:20:54 <dpeg> bhaak: Pat spoke on rgrn, did you light your candles? Also, your changes are unpopular with the Nethack crowd, I saw it!
16:21:38 <dpeg> dtsund: yes, another good reason
16:23:01 <bhaak> dpeg: Janis is not the whole nethack community, you know? :) and i have get back on Pat with this bug, i've investigated a bit although it is still unclear why it acts as strange as it does.
16:24:03 <dpeg> Janis is the Klassensprecher of the Nethack players born before the war
16:24:18 <kilobyte> dpeg: not as simple: if all damage you take is in 1hp pieces, rounding towards mp mean you don't lose any hp until you get to 0 mp
16:24:19 <bhaak> which one? ;-)
16:24:28 <SamB> Fyren: I don't think that's working right now in trunk, either
16:24:43 <SamB> the "remove curse from staff" functionality, I mean
16:25:07 <Fyren> Let's see.
16:25:15 <kilobyte> dpeg: beh, I'll special-case the almost killing blow thingy then
16:25:34 <dpeg> kilobyte: with 30 HP, 30 MP, we'd deduct 1 from MP; with 30 HP : 29 MP, we'd then deduct from HP.
16:26:04 <Fyren> SamB: Yeah, that's broken.
16:26:18 <SamB> Good, good.
16:26:22 * SamB fixed it already
16:26:46 * SamB just wanted to make sure it had been broken before so he could know if he had or not
16:27:48 <kilobyte> dpeg: with that way (rounding only exact halves, rather than flooring) you'd not lose any mp until you get to 30/300 30/30
16:28:01 <SamB> Fyren: oh, you fixed it too?
16:28:24 <SamB> great!
16:28:42 <Fyren> SamB: Not the staves, but the ammo and HUD updating.
16:28:53 <SamB> ah
16:28:56 <Fyren> I didn't notice the staves till you mentioned.
16:28:59 <kilobyte> SamB: if you have a different fix from Fyren's patch (I applied it locally but didn't push yet), did you do both?
16:29:14 <SamB> kilobyte: I did
16:29:15 <dpeg> kilobyte: hm, we're talking about distributing fractions. Probabilistically?
16:30:54 <kilobyte> dpeg: yeah, that's what I had in mind with the "special-case the almost killing blow"
16:31:07 <dpeg> ok
16:31:17 <kilobyte> div_rand_round() but with a check for killing directly
16:33:17 <SamB> Fyren: your patch lead me to re-evaluate the positioning of the "you.wield_change = true"
16:33:41 <SamB> so I put it in enchant_weapon now, not _handle_enchant_weapon
16:35:24 <dpeg> !seen galehar
16:35:26 <Henzell> I last saw galehar at Mon Oct 10 23:39:36 2011 UTC (1d 21h 55m 50s ago) quitting with message Remote host closed the connection.
16:35:37 <dpeg> new job, it seems
16:36:07 <kilobyte> SamB: will you take the rest of Fyren's patch then?  I don't know what you have and what you don't in your local tree.
16:36:24 <SamB> kilobyte: I'm taking care of everything
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16:39:14 * dpeg shoves a little god onto SamB's plate.
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16:46:14 <SamB> I'm changing it so that it won't do anything to "your hands" unless you actually aren't wielding anything, and letting enchant_weapon() take full responsibility for what may and may not be enchanted
16:49:26 <SamB> ??magical condensation
16:49:27 <Henzell> I don't have a page labeled magical_condensation in my learndb.
16:49:29 <kilobyte> so it'd show the greenish sheen on that deck you're wielding, makes sense
16:50:17 <SamB> also it reduces the risk of further screw-ups of this sort ;-)
16:52:42 <CIA-34> 03SamB * r5ef62043777a 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Fix EW on missiles (#4731) and staves, and make it update the status area.
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16:55:32 <SamB> oh, does anyone know what might cause monsters to just look through a window at the player, rather than actually approaching?
16:55:55 <Fyren> Voyeurism?
16:56:02 <SamB> Zot Defence's "zotvault5" has them doing that a lot...
16:56:16 <SamB> (which is why I've left it disabled)
16:56:52 <Zannick> "just look through a window"?
16:57:10 <BlastHardcheese> they're scared
16:57:23 <Zannick> pathfinding is fairly dumb
16:57:49 <SamB> I'm not even getting those "can't pathfind" messages
16:57:50 <Zannick> i usually find that monsters won't move away from me in order to get around a corner or other monsters to get to me
16:58:05 <SamB> Zannick: yeah, that's what I'm seeing
16:58:17 <Zannick> so they might be stuck in a hook-like structure
16:59:22 <SamB> just go to dat/des/zotdef/zotdef.des, delete the underscore before "zotdef" on the last vault, and add a huge WEIGHT: value
16:59:33 <SamB> then try playing zot defence
16:59:41 <SamB> and you'll see what I'm talking about
17:00:09 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * r3aeea6550b4b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (dat/descript/items.txt ouch.cc): Guardian spirit: take proportionally from HP and MP rather than MP first.
17:02:31 <dpeg> thanks!
17:03:04 <dpeg> SamB: it is an ancient mis-feature that a monster may get stranded of the other side of a wall when chasing you
17:05:50 <kilobyte> there's also the "./crawl -test" failure that's unfixed since basically forever
17:06:17 <kilobyte> (greensnark was the last person who understood any bit of the pathfinding code...)
17:06:50 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.]
17:07:38 <SamB> I thought zotdef was supposed to crash for this kind of stuff
17:08:07 * SamB will have to examine the callers of that function...
17:26:45 <Napkin> guys, "Source Cleanup" - should we make that mantis category open to the public? See https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4729 for details
17:27:20 <Napkin> "open to the public" - allow mantis users with permissions < developer to create issues in that category
17:32:42 <dpeg> I am not sure on that one. Someone needs to decide.
17:52:42 <kilobyte> Eronarn: your octopodes patch made melded jewelry continue to work.  Could you explain why?
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18:09:49 <SamB> hmm. I've been reading about these things called "god objects", and I'm wondering why we haven't got any ;-P
18:10:31 <Zannick> we have enough fun with the actor and monster classes as is :P
18:11:57 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  has the 4727 patch (typo in bolt::affects_wall) not been pushed yet?  I see you say it was applied in the report, but I'm not seeing it in master
18:12:28 <kilobyte> Zannick: it'd be nice to somehow separate damage/enchantments/clouds blamed on environment vs that blamed on dead monsters vs that blamed on a god
18:12:44 <kilobyte> |amethyst: yeah, not pushed
18:12:49 <|amethyst> ah, ok
18:13:04 <Zannick> kilobyte: enums!  *ducks*
18:13:44 <kilobyte> actually, it's just an extra mail to c-r-c, old reasons for batching pushes no longer apply
18:14:08 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * raa4f9b84b88d 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Don't embed missiles in secret doors (neil).
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18:15:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  thanks
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18:26:27 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * r29bdbe965aa5 10/crawl-ref/source/newgame.cc: Don't overwrite saves if the name is chosen after combo.
18:35:25 <SamB> Zannick: actually, think you *is* a god object ;-)
18:35:29 <SamB> +I
18:37:03 <kilobyte> SamB: there's 96734689374689 fields that apply to the game in general rather than to the player, yeah
18:37:21 <kilobyte> this doesn't make a difference as Crawl doesn't have a multiplayer mode though
18:37:39 <SamB> yeah
18:37:51 <kilobyte> it might reduce compilation time in non-PCH builds
18:38:21 <kilobyte> but let's 1. make PCH the default once it works reliably, and 2. put all the big headers into PCH so it has a chance to actually speed them up
18:38:30 <kilobyte> like, player.h, monster.h or env.h
18:40:01 <SamB> hmm
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18:40:38 <SamB> but will the PCH buy us enough that the ccache lossage won't matter?
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18:42:34 <kilobyte> I wonder how big a part of rebuilds are full ones
18:42:36 <SamB> env.h has 95 modules not depending on it
18:43:08 <SamB> hmm, out of 275
18:43:09 <kilobyte> I get the impression that more than half builds I do are mostly full
18:43:21 <SamB> maybe it *would* be a good idea...
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18:45:34 <kilobyte> levcomp.ypp:4:20: warning: ./AppHdr.h.gch: not a PCH file [enabled by default]
18:46:13 <SamB> what the heck?
18:48:34 <Torokasi> Looks like a shiny error.
18:50:52 <|amethyst> I also take "Demon-God" to mean "a God who is a demon"
18:50:54 <|amethyst> doh
18:54:26 <SamB> Torokasi: but how did it HAPPEN
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19:04:21 <kilobyte> SamB: adding env.h player.h monster.h reduces user time from 200 to 175
19:05:24 <kilobyte> ah hrm, doing "make clean;sync;CCACHE_DISABLE=y time make debug PCH=y" causes my "make='make -j6'" alias to not work
19:07:00 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  that runs the 'time' executable rather than the builtin
19:07:05 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  so it doesn't know about aliases
19:07:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte:  you want   time CCACHE_DISABLE=y make debug PCH=y    assuming bash
19:08:30 <kilobyte> yeah exactly, I'm doing the rest of benchmarks the slow way to be consistent with previous ones
19:08:50 <kilobyte> although it might be faster to redo them all with -j6
19:10:17 <kilobyte> beh, with ten includes including junk like menu.h it's actually slower... 182 user
19:15:19 <kilobyte> looks like env.h makes the bulk of the speedup
19:15:35 <SamB> I'd just pull that in, then
19:15:57 <kilobyte> beh, it does include monster.h :p
19:17:00 <SamB> oh, right, of course it does ;-)
19:17:04 * SamB should have known that
19:19:06 <kilobyte> is there a tool that shows the graph of includes?
19:19:21 <SamB> hmm
19:19:34 <SamB> I think doxygen shows parts of it
19:21:56 <SamB> http://flourish.org/cinclude2dot/
19:23:53 <Fyren> gcc's -M has some less frilly info.
19:27:27 <kilobyte> graph-includes goes into a seemingly infinite loop, spamming an error about "deep recursion"
19:28:44 <SamB> huh
19:28:52 <SamB> that's what I was just about to try ;-)
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19:46:55 <dpeg> Since when are books of {high-level} indicated before you pick them up? New bug?
19:48:06 <SamB> you mean the color ?
19:48:13 <SamB> or do they have that shown now, too?
19:48:44 <SamB> either way, I think the answer is "yes"
19:50:41 <dpeg> they're magenta on the ground
19:52:35 <Wensley> maybe they're so powerful that they shimmer with a recognizable aura of arcane magicks, to better inform trogites which ones to burn
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20:18:13 <CIA-34> 03kilobyte * r77e7321c06c4 10/crawl-ref/source/unicode.cc: Fix a build failure when libutil.h is included from the global header.
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22:02:11 <CIA-34> 03dolorous * rddaaf604b017 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/items.txt: Remove unneeded space.
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22:53:42 <ortoslon> one half of a two-tile door turned out to be a door mimic - bug?
23:08:25 <Wensley> ortoslon: the best feature, you mean
23:08:35 <Wensley> door mimics have learned to use camouflage!
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23:14:53 <|amethyst> ortoslon:  I wonder what would happen if you opened the other half
23:15:23 <ortoslon> after i killed the mimic the other half opened and closed as usual
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23:31:15 <Wensley> sounds like a good idea for a vault
23:31:31 <Wensley> not sure there are any tiny vaults that are just two-wide doors
23:31:41 <Wensley> 1/100 times, one of the doors is a mimic
23:41:18 <Ashenzari> cloud trap maps are not transparent (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4733) by reid
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