00:00:33 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:58 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:43 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:24:22 -!- edlothiol has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:40:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:20:10 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:26 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:31 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 01:45:46 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:50 -!- mikee_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:45:50 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 01:57:38 -!- rawrmage has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 01:58:41 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:41 -!- rawrmage has quit [Changing host] 01:58:41 -!- rawrmage has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:29 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:21 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:27:55 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:41 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:44 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:16 morning 02:37:34 hi 03:13:03 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:50 hi 03:59:27 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:59:37 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:00 -!- casmith_789 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:11 -!- casmith789 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:22 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:12 SamB: abl-show.cc:6:20: warning: AppHdr.h.gch: not used because `FULLDEBUG' not defined [-Winvalid-pch] 04:08:24 SamB: looks like it fails to cope with build flags changing 04:11:59 Hm 04:12:16 Cherubs get standard angel speech, which is annoying. 04:12:22 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:12:34 -!- cbus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:12:34 due: ALL holies get standard angel speech. Including apises. 04:12:45 kilobyte: Yeah, I need to rewrite it all. 04:12:56 -!- cbus has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:08 (i.e., have a "specific angel set" which can be subst'd in with @whatever@ instead of having it as the default for all holy creatures) 04:14:16 also, they're losing healing 04:14:22 .. 04:14:26 the "refuses to salute" thing could be shared among mostly humanoidal ones 04:14:28 all of the um 04:14:43 yeah 04:14:46 all of the groups get things like that.. I set a default message for hounds and it got transferred out to 04:14:48 there's enough in-game code to compensate for it 04:14:52 like, hell hounds and jackals 04:15:01 which doesn't make any sense because it refers to hounds coming in packs of one 04:15:13 syraine: anything that uses generics, symbols, etc, gets transferred out 04:15:23 Yes, I belatedly noticed that 04:15:40 iirc it had like, "@hound_message@" 04:15:54 I also noticed zin_priest popping up. 04:16:09 ah 04:16:10 my bad 04:16:20 I forgot the separator 04:16:23 it got lost in all the comments 04:16:42 excellent 04:16:48 monster cherubs lost generics 04:17:17 righteous anger works... 04:17:38 Are there Zin-specific servants 04:17:54 @??silver star 04:17:54 silver star (15*) | 04UNFINISHED | Speed: 15 | HD: 30 | Health: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 11437. 04:18:03 --^ 04:18:04 Like, "Hallowed Warden" or whatever - oh 04:18:09 wow 04:18:15 It should guard the Silver Rune of Zot 04:18:17 :3 04:18:17 they're basically orbs of fire 04:18:35 but kinda do-nothing at the minute 04:18:52 give it static discharge HD:30 with holy damage 04:19:14 kilobyte: I'm quite happy with this orc-like battle frenzy; what do yoou think of applying it to the player? 04:19:18 kilobyte: (if you are co-aligned) 04:21:16 might work 04:22:02 Mass Berserk 04:22:05 cool move 04:22:09 however, there is a big problem in any group of holies: some do salute you, some don't -- and start beating each other 04:22:10 If I understand you 04:22:38 You could make each monster have an internal alignment 04:23:10 even making them not hit each other would be weird -- in a squad, troops are supposed to communicate with each other and either all fight you or all not, not stand idly as a friend fights a losing battle 04:23:18 I.E. some are friendly to you and indifferent to each other 04:23:31 syraine: precisely what I'm saying would be bad 04:23:41 Well, I wrote that before you, but 04:23:51 I'd rationalize it as some of them breaking off from the group 04:23:56 just force friendlies to cluster 04:24:09 we discussed this with dpeg before... one solution would be to have a hard threshold above which all holies salute and below none does 04:24:32 well, you could just force friendly servants to cluster away from indifferent or hostile 04:24:41 around a locus relative to player position 04:24:44 or whatever - - 04:25:00 which still leaves one problem: if a holy salutes then wanders off, meeting one that didn't yet see you, they're hostile to each other. Same happens with Beogh orcs and Jiyva slimes. 04:25:04 they'd lose like four or five turns, but if holies did not attack one another 04:25:10 yeah, I noticed that 04:25:33 I did extended with Jiyva and Slime:6 was filled with slime creatures stabbing one another 04:25:44 a bit creepy 04:25:52 saluting angels could just be made to leave, no? 04:26:06 that is 'kinda' what I was suggesting :3 04:26:09 so yes 04:26:11 i mean immediately =P 04:26:16 yes, immediately 04:26:24 I was saying that as soon as they were friendly 04:26:26 they'd break off 04:26:33 and cluster around you to show their .. 04:26:37 I don't know, virtue 04:26:48 i mean more immediately than that 04:26:52 piousness 04:26:56 oh, you mean that they would teleport 04:26:57 lol 04:27:02 that would be hard to explain 04:27:16 or do you mean that all angels should immediately teleport to you as soon as they see you 04:27:26 decide if they are friendly then teleport back to where they were if they are not friendly 04:27:40 i hope you don't think i mean that 04:29:04 i don't think it's a huge stretch for a holy monster to immediately vanish 04:29:12 summoned monsters vanish all the time 04:29:39 The angel disappears in a puff of smoke! 04:29:42 hahahaha 04:29:55 I was trying to figure out how you could do it faster than instantly 04:29:57 is that sillier than an executioner doing it? 04:30:11 the only logical solution is to anticipate your player encountering an angel 04:30:22 and decide whether or not the angel is friendly before the player meets it 04:30:31 Oh, obvious solution 04:30:33 Kilobyte 04:30:46 Set angel friendliness as player enters level 04:30:54 Redraw alignment when angel enters LoS 04:31:27 Redraw alignment when you ... like renounce TSO 04:31:37 hm 04:31:40 etc 04:31:45 won't they just be fighting each other while you're doing nothing? 04:31:58 if you have hostile angels and friendly angels 04:32:05 some will die while you are offscreen 04:32:13 you get no message unless for whatever reason they're not summoned 04:32:20 I'm happy for the first holy you meet to be the threshold to trigger every other holy on the level -- but computting against the greatest holy of them. 04:32:39 in which case you gain experience from angel kills; solve this by not granting experience from, well, TSO angels killing other angels 04:32:44 because seriously, what the hell 04:32:50 Which means that if tou are on a level with only angels, say, you only have to meet hte piety threshold against them -- but if there are eight angels an d a silver star, you have to convince the silver star. 04:32:59 that's cool 04:33:25 you need a message saying, "The angel seems unconvinced of your piety." 04:33:27 I'm... not sure how to handle holy Zigs, though. 04:33:35 syraine: That's basically what happens. 04:33:46 Yes, but I mean a specifically different one 04:33:48 However, I don't thinnk this should be the same with orcs -- orc disparity is fine, in my opinion. 04:33:52 Why? 04:33:55 Not the whole thing with piety threshhold 04:34:03 Well, how will you know to find a Silver Star or whatever 04:34:04 That will all be abstracted out? 04:34:10 You'd be going, "Why the hell are all these angels hosti-" 04:34:12 oh, okay 04:34:12 You won't. 04:34:33 You won't know if you failed the piety test due ot random chance or because there is a stronger holy loose on the level. 04:34:46 ??the shining one 04:34:47 the shining one[1/5]: One of three 'good gods'. Provides a number of passive favors as well as active abilities later. Enjoys killing of evil creatures, and forbids use of poison, evil magic, attacking fleeing or sleeping intelligent creatures, or cannibalism. 04:34:47 what is the consequence of killing an angel while worshipping a good god? 04:34:59 worshippers of good gods will simply get a free Zig level -- no danger, no xp 04:35:02 um, you feel guilty every time you hit it 04:35:13 and if you kill it you feel extremely guilty 04:35:20 kilobyte: Yeah. 04:35:29 mikee_: Huuge piety hit, retirbution likely. 04:35:38 the undead already have fiends and tormentors be nice and fluffy due to torment not working 04:35:51 except for Shadow 04:36:00 (excluding shadow fiends who are "oy vey gevalt" due to Dispel Undead, of course) 04:36:05 yeah 04:36:10 but a Shadow Fiend is basically the most powerful of all 1s 04:36:16 I had trouble with one even at XL27 04:36:27 when I easily cleared out Fiends, Balrugs, what have you 04:36:37 true 04:36:57 @??shadow fiend 04:36:58 Shadow Fiend (061) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 79-121 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Damage: 25, 1513(drain), 1513(drain) | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(312), 02cold++, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2771 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), b.draining (3d22), torment symbol, dispel undead (3d27), demon. 04:36:59 on a living char, you fear hellfiring ones instead 04:37:01 @??fiend 04:37:01 Fiend (041) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 79-121 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Damage: 25, 15, 15 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(288), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 4695 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), torment symbol, melee. 04:37:10 sp: melee 04:37:13 nice 04:37:34 torment plus big smite attacks is NASTY 04:38:05 well, I was playing an evoker/summoner on the conduct Spriggan, so 04:38:48 i don't see why you would have an easy time with other 1s and a hard time with shadow fiends 04:38:48 also they don't cast hellfire repeatedly when they're surrounded by monsters, they just bash things up 04:38:51 you'll dodge a vast majority of bolts, or reduce damage due to AC/GDR. Hellfire ignores both EV and AC. 04:39:07 torment symbol, bolt spells 04:39:19 ice fiend has that and does more damage in melee 04:39:27 I didn't encounter Ice Fiends 04:39:42 but I did have a wand of fire, so 04:39:44 eh 04:40:08 I think it was the set of resistances 04:40:23 I had elemental wands and the capacity to fire through my own summons 04:40:38 ice fiends do more than double damage in melee, but if you have good rC+++ they are among easier ones 04:40:52 @??ice fiend 04:40:52 Ice Fiend (161) | Speed: 10 | HD: 18 | Health: 79-121 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Damage: 2512(cold:18-53), 2512(cold:18-53) | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(288), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 3022 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), torment symbol, demon. 04:40:57 yes, I had excellent cold resistance 04:41:03 possibly I encountered one out of sight 04:41:29 oh, that was it 04:41:38 The Shadow Fiend casts bolt spells to your location 04:41:58 And casts Symbol of Torment, whereas a Fiend casts Hellfire on hostile targets 04:42:21 The Fiend cannot both attack the enemies adjacent and cast a smite-targeted spell 04:42:29 and if it casts Hellfire, that opens spots to use Summon Swarm 04:42:48 it can't cast a smite targeted spell anyway 04:42:56 Hellfire isn't smite-targeted 04:42:58 @_@? 04:43:10 there are two kinds of hellfire 04:43:12 that one isn't 04:43:17 @??hellion 04:43:17 hellion (052) | Speed: 12 | HD: 7 | Health: 24-52 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 10 | Flags: 05demonic, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 600 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15). 04:43:24 Hellfire burst, of course 04:43:29 Then there is no issue 04:43:51 How silly of me, I thought that it was smite targeted after all, since it was said Fiends were far more dangerous 04:44:11 if there isn't a smite targeted spell, it's trivial, because it can't possibly move faster than you can fill squares 04:44:12 they're relatively equal 04:44:22 notice how situational all of this stuff we've been discussing has been 04:44:27 yes :3 04:44:36 however, a Shadow Fiend is worth half EXP 04:46:07 SamB: couldn't check compilation in Windows here, but on three different machines of greatly different speeds, I see: PCH gives a significant boost with no ccache, but no boost and even a tiny slowdown with ccache 04:47:44 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 04:49:22 SamB: oh, they are left on "make clean" 04:49:46 SamB: should depend on all #defines and all headers, too 04:50:39 03kilobyte * r54542ea1220c 10/crawl-ref/source/Makefile: Fix precompiled headers being left on "make clean". 05:01:45 -!- Galefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:39 SamB: still no improvement. I guess ccache calling the preprocessor (so it can tell which file to pull from the cache) blocks PCH from working. 05:16:46 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:12 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:49 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:41 edlothiol: the skills menu is done separately on client side, right? In that case, I'm afraid the focused/mastered logic needs to be replicated. 05:28:58 kilobyte: no, at the moment, the menus are all server-side 05:47:45 -!- Xiberia has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 05:48:10 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:11 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:12 SamB: around? 06:29:23 !tell SamB Your food reform change log line is not of use. If you cannot come up with an explanation, that is fine but the current line is not. It reads as if written by a cynical player, not by a developer. 06:29:23 dpeg: OK, I'll let SamB know. 06:29:53 hii 06:29:55 dpeg: not sure what to do with Zin altar donations 06:31:01 dpeg: log line? 06:31:13 dpeg: currently they give 0.034 piety/gold when donating 1000, 0.042 piety/gold when 5000. Tithing gives 1.5... (which is 0.15 as you can't tithe more, but still...) 06:31:36 due: just deleted the mail :| 06:31:36 due: "* Food "reform": Nobody seems able to concisely explain what this is good for..." 06:31:48 Ah. 06:31:53 Hm. 06:32:16 dpeg: We did discuss it earlier and MarvinPA and myself and a few others managed to quantify a few things that were slightly isseuous. 06:32:28 There are issues, no question about that. 06:32:28 (Confusion as to when you can eat chunks, and the fact that chunk prompting is broken.) 06:32:35 But that conversation post-dates that email. 06:32:37 So never mind! 06:33:02 Replace food with some other mechanic which can be used to restrict hunger-based spells without forcing people who aren't going to cast/use hunger-based anything to put up with the mechanic too. 06:33:03 due: suffixed were suggested yesterday: chunk {edible if hungry} 06:33:59 dpeg: /me nod. 06:34:00 dpeg: also, I have cherubs almost done and ready to push :D 06:34:00 * dpeg hugs due 06:34:26 It is funny that dissecting was a lot more cumbersome in the past (without any complaints, when I suggest the changes, I got criticism): Dygye[letter] 06:34:44 (dissect, prompt, pickup/eat, prompt) 06:35:18 there are changes that reduce tedium and those which increase 06:36:05 yes, I have played the current version, I know :) 06:36:16 But I am also sure that the interface will adapt. 06:36:39 the food reform both turns a simple system into something complex, and adds a significant dose of micromanagement 06:36:49 neither of which is a change for good 06:36:54 kilobyte: I don't think this is really true. 06:37:23 before, the rules were clear: hungry? can eat chunks. Not hungry? permafood only. 06:38:49 At the expense that brown chunks are meaningless, as were the mutation levels. The system is not complicated and players will get used to it quickly. We can make it much easier for them, and we will. 06:38:53 there was a question if this corpse you have right now will spoil before you get hungry... the only piece of micromanagement in the old system, basically. Now you have this * 1000. You have to think about every food threshold simultaneously. 06:39:57 brown chunks were a good deal worse due to sickness 06:40:19 I don't see the micromanagement. You chop up white corpses as before. You don't even have to bother with brown ones unless already hungry. It's not a big deal. 06:40:40 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:41:26 you need to calculate whether you'll get to very hungry before they spoil 06:42:44 Perhaps I am playing too sloppily, but this has not been a concern in my game. 06:44:07 03kilobyte 07no_free_piety * r840bcfc16f6b 10/crawl-ref/source/ (itemprop.cc items.cc): Make Zin dislike (but still demand) old gold from the ground. 06:44:07 03kilobyte 07no_free_piety * r5137697e4d6d 10/crawl-ref/source/ (godprayer.cc godprayer.h items.cc religion.cc): Zin demands a part of your gold on join. 06:44:07 03kilobyte 07no_free_piety * r32023a1c97b4 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Stop tithing at 200 piety. 06:52:08 kilobyte: is this with the model of gold getting stale after a while which I suggested? 06:52:38 With that, you abolish almost all Zin micromanagement. 06:54:08 03kilobyte * r4411e8f94b91 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'no_free_piety' 06:55:32 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:50 this is a part I did a bit differently: gold is stale only if you've seen it before, since otherwise the player is penalized for shafts / dipping even more, requiring that silly "explore every level fully before entering a next one" thing already caused by timed portals 06:56:47 kilobyte: oh, I meant that only seen gold can go stale 06:56:52 sorry if I was imprecise 06:57:14 otherwise we unfairly punish the player, as you say... not my intention 06:57:21 back (much) later 06:57:27 see ya! 06:59:51 -!- edlothiol has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:00:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:23 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1151-g4411e8f (32) 07:03:28 -!- edlothiol has quit [Client Quit] 07:14:01 I wonder, what's exactly the point of crossbows? Less damage than longbows, slower (bow 11->5, longbow 12->6, crossbow 15->7), while requiring a good deal more skill (16 instead of 12), and being hard to get at the start (so you can't use the skill early). 07:16:17 with low skill, they are better than bow, are they not? 07:19:43 +3 accuracy while firing only 0.7 times as often 07:20:39 their only real advantage is the potential for penetration brand, no? 07:23:32 and +2 base damage too 07:26:29 have you tried playing say MDHu vs HEHu? 07:26:37 (before ranged weapon choice) 07:26:46 you will ask "what's the point of bows" 07:28:08 MD, they have a huge apt in xbows 07:28:33 it'd be like asking for a short blade Og or non-polearm Mf 07:28:36 no they don't, they have 1 07:28:50 <|amethyst> +1 for MD with Crb, as opposed to +3 for HE with Bow 07:28:52 no one had more than +1 in crossbows before kobolds got +2 07:29:10 isn't the point of bow to survive until you get your hands on a longbow? 07:30:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:55 3 difference in aptitude 07:31:43 galehar: yeah, a starting bow is as good or even a bit weaker than crossbow, but it has upgrades. Crossbows don't. 07:32:34 maybe crossbow's upgrade is bolts of penetration 07:34:11 they get steel bolts, and silver which are less good now they don't affect liches and mummies 07:35:05 bows get dispersal which isn't a damage brand 07:43:16 I mean, both are very strong at the high end, but crossbows (and slings) are much better early on while bows can be quite miserable until you do find a longbow 07:47:20 solution: bring back hand crossbows 07:49:25 !tell dpeg do you dispute the *accuracy* of that line? if so, provide an example of someone who *is* able to explain it concisely! 07:49:26 SamB: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:49:26 SamB: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:50:20 st_: from a damage comparison, I see even bows being better than crossbow at lowish skill. 07:50:49 st_: am I missing something? delay 15 seems to kill damage-per-time, kind of like scythes. 07:56:47 SamB: I don't think dpeg is disputing the accuracy of the line. What he's saying is that we shouldn't put sarcastic comments about our own inability to explain it concisely. 07:57:00 oh 07:57:42 you don't think it will make the players feel better? 07:57:48 or he doesn't? 08:00:06 no, I doubt it will make them feel better :P 08:02:05 well, if anyone has any better ideas how to make them feel better ;-) 08:07:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:08:14 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:01 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:57 -!- Galefury is now known as alefury 08:11:52 -!- mumra[1] has quit [Quit: offski] 08:13:13 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:25 ggeezz the Warrior (L15 MDHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1071 failed on turn 39435. (Lab) 08:24:59 fsim is completely broken 08:25:06 hasn't been used in a while... 08:26:52 !lm * crash -log 08:26:52 1705. ggeezz, XL15 MDHu, T:39435 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/ggeezz/crash-ggeezz-20111006-131824.txt 08:53:02 new Zin plus the food nerf = starving to death... 08:54:03 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:09 I see abyss trips from pan take you back to pan now. Does that mean that being banished on lom's level no longer means missing the rune since you'll get back? 09:17:32 You should return to the same level you were on, not the dungeon. 09:24:24 <|amethyst> jle: Yes, that was part of the intent according to the commit message 09:24:50 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:28 cool. I should do that Lom vault with drac shifters now 09:30:32 Cool. Seems like a good change. 09:30:46 cool. says we. 09:31:32 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:51 We are legion. 09:32:28 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:12 kilobyte: there is no starving to death. There is gold aplenty 09:46:12 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:48:07 !messages 09:48:08 (1/1) SamB said (1h 58m 42s ago): do you dispute the *accuracy* of that line? if so, provide an example of someone who *is* able to explain it concisely! 09:48:39 SamB: I absolutely don't understand what you're trying to say... Guess I'll just add a better line. 09:53:27 what's the difference between the number returned by create_monster() and the mid? 09:56:06 03dpeg * r28b8754b9ae0 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Preliminary food reform entry in change log. 09:58:23 !tell kilobyte If you're using stale (seen) gold for Zin, I don't see where the micromanagement comes in you speak of in the commits. Please explain to me. 09:58:23 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 10:01:33 dpeg: that would qualify as providing an example of someone who can ;-) 10:01:44 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:01:48 namely, yourself 10:02:20 (assuming your line gives an idea what food reform is good for) 10:02:50 dpeg: I thought the point of the stale gold was to prevent the micromanagement from being possible/necessary 10:11:48 SamB: it is (Zin). And yes, that is the goal (food reform). 10:11:53 back (much) later 10:12:41 I hadn't noticed you'd already written a line when I said that 10:14:02 so was speaking with no knowledge of the contents of your line 10:16:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:15 hmm, can we query the monster database other than by name? 10:17:45 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:14 Hmm. We need to document somewhere relevant (manual and/or some help screens) that there are *three* possible pattern syntaxes, that ?V will tell you which one you've got, and where to find documentation on each 10:22:39 I guess we'd have to provide our own documentation for globs? 10:28:45 kilobyte: I've started fixing fsim. It doesn't take accuracy into account for ranged combat and crossbow is already much better than bow: http://pastebin.com/kbxh2rya 10:29:05 for a L1 HuHu 10:30:08 how do you guys decide which race/background combos are "viable"? 10:31:05 there's no hard written rule, but it's about how easy it is to reach the temple with it I guess. 10:31:15 hmm 10:31:19 that won't help me much 10:31:36 I wanted to look at zotdef viability 10:31:44 and there's, uh, no temple ;-) 10:32:18 are there any statistical tools that you use? 10:32:44 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:49 and any idea about a good milestone for zot defence? 10:35:04 statistics tend to be no good. Easy combos get a lot of play from newbies and end up with worse win rate than hard combos. 10:35:14 I didn't mean win rate 10:35:41 !help lg 10:35:41 !lg: Lists a specifically-numbered game by a player with specified conditions. By default it lists the most recent game. Usage: !listgame () () (options) where options are in the form field=value, or (max|min)=field. See ??listgame for more info. 10:36:30 elliptic and i did the current ones 10:37:02 it was pretty much entirely arbitrary, just ones we felt were appropriate :P 10:37:12 seems the easiest method 10:37:26 hmm, I'm going to have to do a poll or something then 10:37:33 since I am not good enough to know! 10:38:00 i guess it'd be tricky for zotdef since it doesn't get much playtime, yeah 10:38:42 how do I get a list of players who have done well ? 10:39:01 my current impression is that summoners (and so probably wizards, too) tend to be really good, as do death knights 10:39:11 hrm, not sure how zotdef scoring works 10:39:30 well, how about looking at XL? 10:39:47 yeah, possibly 10:39:58 like, poll those who've hit 20? 10:40:08 but I dunno how to do it 10:40:17 and Sequell doesn't seem to have a tutorial :-( 10:40:21 ??listgame 10:40:22 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/raw/master/docs/listgame.txt 10:40:27 sequell tutorial! 10:40:32 ah, nice 10:40:48 somewhat daunting but i think it's fairly complete, at least 10:41:21 as long as it has examples! 10:41:37 !lg * zotdef xl>20 s=char,name 10:41:38 47 games for * (xl>20): 11x NaWr (9x Yunor, 1x Kal, 1x ion), 4x TrBe (2x zerome, 1x ves, 1x Kal), 3x DEWz (2x Kogan, 1x 78291), 2x GhCK (1x Ragdoll, 1x xomscumming), 2x OgRe (2x Ragdoll), 1x GhWr (1x DrPraetor), 1x MuIE (1x Ragdoll), 1x HOCK (1x Banquo), 1x GhFi (1x Ragdoll), 1x TrFE (1x casmith789), 1x TrWr (1x Ereshkigal), 1x KoCK (1x MakMorn), 1x HuSt (1x Atomjack), 1x DEIE (1x hyperbolic), 1x ... 10:41:59 * SamB goes to add that URL to the help 10:42:41 although trying to get useful stats from that might be tricky for zotdef 10:42:46 since it was so buggy initially 10:42:54 I just want a list of players to poll, anyway 10:42:55 there were lots of really broken games 10:45:17 oh, that does already point to the learndb entry... 10:47:47 hmm, I know what got me 10:47:56 it was the "specifically-numbered game by a player" bit 10:49:46 I read that and decided "no, I want something that looks at *all* games, not just games by one player!" 10:49:54 and stopped reading 10:51:18 ??Gretell 10:51:18 gretell[1/3]: The counterpart to Henzell, for crawl.develz.org. Only accepts @whereis, @?, and @?? from IRC. The evil twin of Henzell. Now accepts inquiries on PM. Currently @? points at old 0.8 trunk due to code rot. Sorry! 10:52:53 I notice she seems to indicate when events are related to Zot Defence, unlike Henzell? 10:55:58 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:23 i don't like these cloud traps. 10:56:53 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:56 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:50 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:09:29 -!- galehar has quit [] 11:10:17 * SamB still thinks soupmaking would be an awesome skill 11:13:03 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:46 after mastering conjurations with a potion of experience the skill screen still shows exp going into it 11:23:54 22% actually, same as before mastering it 11:24:03 ill check if it goes away on save+reload 11:24:15 this is in tiles btw, on a char transferred from before the skill restrictions... 11:25:31 nope, still shows exp going into the skill :/ 11:26:41 ooh 11:27:03 the wiki has awesome headings buttons 11:27:08 did it always have those? 11:29:40 it went away after i killed some stuff 11:47:56 Autoexploring into merging slime creatures does not clear the green flash (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4695) by st 11:51:57 -!- alefury has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:28 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:55 dpeg: if you have 200 piety, paying tithe means you lose gold but don't get anything. You're better off not picking the gold, so if/when you dump Zin you get it without the tax. And if you end up not dumping Zin, you can still pick it up with no extra loss. 11:54:55 kilobyte: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:57:29 Mu_: me neither. Outside of item destruction, they're pretty much spammier mechanical ones that take several commands to deal with. 11:57:55 well the main problem seems to just be the fact that they make exclusions 11:58:25 that too, but this part is fixable 11:59:12 i don't like being penalised from another source for never finding conservation. also they keep killing all my pets (beogh) 11:59:14 poison traps = dart/arrow in total damage, except that upon getting hit by an arrow, autotravel will just continue if you have enough hp 11:59:37 g'evening 11:59:54 SamB: could you have a look at issue 3899 and help debug it? 12:00:10 meph is ignorable in 99.9999% of cases, even with monsters around. Player confusion lasts only a few turns, and during every of those turns you have 2/3 chance of still moving in the right direction. 12:00:23 the former, certainly 12:00:28 the latter remains to be seen ;-) 12:00:47 I saw you already posted in the thread a while back 12:01:08 ice/fire again do damage like mechanical ones, except in a spammier way. And destroy items in the only way you don't get warned about. 12:01:58 petrification puts you out for a while longer than meph but you get that 3* damage reduction so you don't care anyway unless it just happens in a critical moment 12:05:26 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:52 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:50 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:03 Napkin: I haven't seen that since 8.1, really 12:09:42 One thing to try would be running under valgrind, though 12:09:45 oh, so it's not happeneing to you? 12:10:08 maybe differences in the version of osx used? 12:10:49 I saw it in Debian's crawl package, version 2:0.8.1-1 12:10:53 though cloud traps have made me actually start training T&D, I don't like how the skill is entirely "train this so you don't have items destroyed"/ghetto conservation 12:10:55 never since 12:11:08 doesn't mean that it isn't latent or something, though 12:12:03 i see 12:13:21 Another thing to try would be rebuilding that debian package version, only with debugging symbols 12:16:47 I could upload my crash files if that might help? 12:20:07 I don't know - not a developer :) 12:20:20 well, I guess it won't hurt 12:20:40 I think the only reason I didn't before was that my browser is on a different computer from crawl 12:24:46 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:32 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:51 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:36 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:35:10 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:35:22 -!- dtsund_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:36 -!- dtsund_ is now known as dtsund 12:37:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:39:40 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:44:14 kilobyte: where do you keep the Debian packaging for crawl? I'm looking for 2:0.8.1-1, in particular... 12:49:55 crap, I did not tag it or push somewhere... but of course there is http://snapshot.debian.org/package/crawl/2%3A0.8.1-1/ 12:51:54 I knew they had to have it squirreled away somewhere 12:53:19 I mean, I don't remember crawl's license, but *some* packages are GPL'd, and so *must* have it kept around for a while. And it would be a pain to do it only when legally required! 12:54:39 kilobyte: have you considered having it build with debug symbols, splitting those off into a -debug package? 12:56:31 hm. 12:57:06 at the moment big rooms have a really huge placement bias towards the top left corner of the level 12:57:10 I wonder whether that should be fixed 13:02:36 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:54 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:36 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:48 Zaba: interesting 13:08:56 Zaba: what causes that? 13:10:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:39 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:06 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53:48 * SamB carefully comments out all the stuff about tiles in debian/rules and debian/control... 14:41:41 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 14:44:28 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:12 03kilobyte * r896f78ffaaf9 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Scale Zin piety gains by expected value of gold piles at the place. 16:20:13 03kilobyte * r8edd5d51aac3 10/crawl-ref/source/book-data.h: Sort Flight into its lowered level in books. 16:21:24 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1154-g896f78f (32) 16:24:24 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:42:21 <|amethyst> it took me the longest time to figure out that the "g" near the end of the version number wasn't part of the hex string 16:42:43 <|amethyst> Of course "g" isn't hex, but it's so close... 16:43:12 It confused me too. And I still have absolutely no idea what it means. 16:43:51 <|amethyst> I guess "g" is for "git", then the rest is of the first 28 bits of the commit number 16:43:58 <|amethyst> s/is of/is/ 16:44:32 <|amethyst> e.g. git show 9896f78f 16:45:03 <|amethyst> of course, since it's a tag, git show 0.10-a0-1154-g896f78f works just as well and is easier to copy-paste 16:45:26 <|amethyst> err, 896f78f 16:56:20 Doesn't mean anything, it's just there to ensure the hash is obvious. 17:02:44 |amethyst: the longer string is just as easy to paste, slightly more likely to be unambiguous, and is human readable 17:05:25 kilobyte: did you notice that the tiles in the skill panel have 2 different levels of dark gray? Skills you can't train are darker than the ones you've disabled. 17:05:38 I'm thinking it's caused by TILEI_FLAG_INVALID 17:05:49 which adds TILEI_MESH 17:05:57 <|amethyst> kilobyte: that's what I meant in by "of course, ...." 17:06:31 <|amethyst> kilobyte: I was just wondering about the "g"... I guess it's for "git" but then why does CIA use "r" instead? 17:08:19 galehar: I did not -- but if it's so, that's a nice accidental feature 17:08:50 yeah, it is. Would be nice to have it in the skill menu too :P 17:08:50 |amethyst: it came from SVN which CIA was made for 17:08:56 -!- rejuxst has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:03 <|amethyst> aha 17:12:45 !tell kilobyte That is simple: no tithing at full piety. 17:12:46 dpeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 17:13:01 dpeg: just answered to the trap mail 17:13:19 thanks 17:13:48 galehar: I think you didn't understand it though :( 17:14:07 I have phrased it too poorly, it seems. 17:16:05 is there anyway to exit the rc edit prompt without saving besides logging out? 17:16:08 for webtiles 17:16:20 dpeg: really? 17:17:50 ah, actually no 17:17:53 I apologise 17:19:20 I think the change would mean that players try to cut down on pointless rummaging through the dungeon. In my opinion, losing [1] and [2] is worth it. But it is controversial, as I said. 17:20:01 the "traps have only a chance to trigger and reveal when stepped on" idea came to me while writing the answer :P 17:20:13 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:38 dpeg: it's not pointless to go back to a safe location to stash your books 17:21:12 galehar: need to think about that idea 17:21:52 A different idea is that traps are only encounted when exploring, if we can make sense of that notion. 17:21:54 anyway, removing jellies from random post-level-generation spawn is an idea that has been itching me for a while 17:21:58 having all your books in one spot is rather nice now that M memorizes off the ground 17:22:11 every book on one tile = you can reorganize your spells without having to use ctrl + f and travel much 17:22:41 I commited the food reform, I need to buy myself some player love with a popular change :P 17:22:51 galehar: sounds like a politician :) 17:23:25 joke aside, I do think it's a simple idea that will help with stashing paranoia 17:23:30 galehar: good idea on jellies... I like the idea that a summon trap can spam jellies around the level. But that is something completely different from the hidden jelly spawning. 17:23:40 galehar: agreed! 17:26:22 !messages 17:26:23 (1/1) dpeg said (13m 37s ago): That is simple: no tithing at full piety. 17:26:45 dpeg: uhm... so what's the problem in the first place? 17:27:25 by the way, i don't mean to nag but is there any idea on when new vaults on mantis will be added? Also, I uploaded a patch that updates the crypt vault I made 17:27:56 evilmike: sorry, I am busy. Will take some time. 17:28:06 that's alright 17:28:10 i played around with the pan non-lord vaults a bit, they seem nice 17:28:19 evilmike: they'll go in, don't worry 17:28:31 they aren't as good as the old ones though, mostly 17:28:31 the patch should be easier to add than the new vaults (it's an actual patch) 17:28:35 kilobyte: sorry, I may be missing something. But wouldn't stale gold (already in) and no tithing at full piety solve all problems? 17:28:36 imo of course 17:29:38 there were so many minivaults, it wouldn't be a bad idea to just add the best 9 or something (that alone doubles the number) 17:29:42 dpeg: ... yeah, but they're already in 17:32:10 kilobyte: okay, cool! 17:34:39 I'm pretty confused by how badly my calculations seem to be off. I analyzed the gold collected : time ratio of all 0.9 morgues, and yet the results seem to be just wrong. 17:35:50 even after nearly doubling Zin piety gains, Pr with risky behaviour (hardly any resting) and no piety use whatsoever gets *** only at D:6 (from ** on D:1) 17:37:50 no one else seems to be playing Zin to test, too 17:38:26 s/ to test// 17:39:18 BlastHardcheese: this is ##crawl-dev 17:39:35 dpeg: I noticed 17:39:43 BlastHardcheese: please act like it 17:40:00 kilobyte: I've seen some Zin reports lately. The Recite changes are hopefully making the god more popular. 17:40:02 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:17 dpeg: What is the correct way to act 17:44:24 oh, down to ** again (D:7) 17:44:55 kilobyte: how quick is piety loss? 17:47:08 1/17 ticks = 1/340 turns, same as for Yred or Kiku 17:47:36 slow that down? 17:50:58 could work, yeah 17:51:38 it is clearly possible to make Zin piety too good, so it's just a question of finding good values :) 17:54:13 03kilobyte * r5a18cf0676e6 10/crawl-ref/source/godprayer.cc: Fix a typo in Zin's formula... it's supposed to be (10 + random2(27)) * 2. 17:54:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1155-g5a18cf0 (32) 17:54:51 kilobyte: that was it? 17:55:03 a +27% buff 17:55:41 @??manticore 17:55:41 manticore (05H) | Speed: 7 | HD: 9 | Health: 33-65 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Damage: 14, 8, 8 | Flags: !sil | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 163 | Sp: spikes volley (2d10). 17:55:53 since when they're not animals? I_NORMAL... 17:56:55 I think they have human heads 17:57:16 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:58:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:20 !tell galehar Respawning could need more thought anyway: don't just exclude jellies from the list -- we don't want any trivial monsters either. A respawned dragon or giant is fine, many monsters are not. 18:00:20 dpeg: OK, I'll let galehar know. 18:01:43 have you seen non-removable autoexclusions? 18:01:54 spawned from a cloud trap 18:03:53 kilobyte: non-removable? No. 18:04:09 I always removed them with X Ctrl-F. 18:04:38 Should vaults be able to say TAG: no_exclusion or what is the best way to deal with this? 18:04:55 I know that cloud traps are pretty unpopular these days, but the issue extends to other vaults. 18:05:42 I guess, the fog generator should have such a flag rather than the vault. 18:06:58 !seen elliptic 18:06:59 I last saw elliptic at Thu Oct 6 17:37:58 2011 UTC (5h 29m ago) quitting with message Quit: Leaving. 18:07:13 -!- st_ has quit [] 18:10:09 03galehar * r2bf787f34700 10/crawl-ref/source/player.cc: Clear the new exercise queue on game restart. 18:10:09 03galehar * r88c2b84f8f26 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files): Fix many skill bugs with fsim. 18:10:09 03galehar * rfcabd4804a41 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Fix target randomization when firing when confused. 18:10:10 03galehar * r1191a4ae43f8 10/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc: Simplify. 18:10:10 03galehar * r5c90495d8412 10/crawl-ref/source/ (beam.cc beam.h item_use.cc wiz-fsim.cc): Fix ranged combat fsim. 18:10:18 dpeg: good point, I'll look at random monster generation 18:10:19 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:11:03 so, if we want to balance ranged combat, that might help 18:12:57 http://pastebin.com/TMjWxuN0 18:13:00 galehar: fsim repair! 18:13:08 of course that might be still bugged 18:13:22 I wonder what's happening at bow L4 and crossbow L1 18:13:29 anyway... 18:13:35 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: zzz] 18:50:03 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:21 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:50 kilobyte: I thought Zin *hated* random! 19:02:10 let's make chei the god who is opposed to entropy 19:05:12 SamB: as in, the extreme randomness of Recite? or? 19:05:50 well, it just seemed funny to see Zin and random in the same sentence when you said he's all penny-counting and so on 19:06:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:36 -!- rejuxst has left ##crawl-dev 19:07:01 SamB: ah no, the formula is fixed, it's the amount of gold generated that is not 19:08:35 -!- syllogism has quit [] 19:08:40 when a pile of gold is spawned, it gets 1 + random2avg(19) + random2(absdepth); that's why my newest stab at tithe gold is multiplied by 47/(20+depth) 19:08:41 * SamB wonders why dh_strip --dbg-package got changed to only support a single -dbg package per source package :-( 19:22:59 kilobyte: I made something for you ;-) 20:06:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 20:06:47 okay 20:07:06 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:16 I think I'm about ready to commit cherubs. 20:07:20 They'll need a new tile, thogh. 20:08:00 I think I will also make them lightmagenta. 20:08:02 @??mottled dragon 20:08:02 mottled dragon (13D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 5 | Health: 16-39 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Damage: 15, 6 | Flags: fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05fire, 03poison | Chunks: clean/none/unknown | XP: 155 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d4). 20:21:43 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:23:58 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:12 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:32 what if, upon joining zin, he required a tribute of 10% of all gold you had found (but not necessarily picked up) so far in the game 20:32:03 obviously there are problems with this, but the current solution also seems really weird 20:33:03 so, say, under this plan, there'd be no incentive to ever turn gold autopickup off, even if you planned on going zin later, because you'd have no net gain 20:33:29 and if you didn't have enough gold to cover it, zin would take 100% of all gold you find until you do 20:34:35 or, perhaps tweak the current system so that old gold on the ground just vanishes after so many thousands of turns of it being discovered 20:34:43 "magpies picked it up" 20:36:03 magically removing gold like that should be the last option considered, since it's probably the weirdest solution 20:36:13 jellies ate it 20:36:19 orcs hoarded it 20:36:24 zin and jiyva don't make a good couple 20:36:28 seems less of a stretch than "zin doesn't like old gold" 20:37:12 maybe he's a collector and wants it freshly minted 20:37:17 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:21 FR: gold golems 20:37:31 actually, that's a good idea 20:37:44 new orcish mines enemy 20:37:44 on the note of old items, if that mechanic is used, it should probably be given to nemelex too 20:38:07 this should be the last option considered, because it's definitely the weirdest solution :P 20:38:10 it could be fairly lenient... just enough to discourage you from going back to d:1 and sacrificing everything dwon to the altar 20:38:45 just spawn jellies on levels you've left for long enough 20:38:49 stashing is not fun 20:39:12 neither is having your entire stash eaten :P 20:39:17 -!- ncampion has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:39:30 if you never bother stashing, this isn't a problem :) 20:39:35 i'll tell you what i would do if off-level jellies became common: instead of stashing everything on one square, i'd do one item per square 20:39:46 jellies multiply! 20:39:49 i don't stash very obsessively, but i still do it for stuff like books 20:39:54 divide-and-conquer 20:40:10 slightly different idea: when you see an item for the first time, nemelex makes it glow to indicate his interest. the glow is temporary, so you have to decide ASAP whether to sacrifice the item or keep it 20:40:10 alright, i'd stash stuff under plants then 20:40:27 obviously, that glow only starts when you start worshipping nemelex 20:40:31 ZorbaBeta's solution seems slightly better than the current approach 20:40:49 I'd probably make it a moderately low chance of glowing (25%, 10%) and increase piety gain from sacrificing appropriately 20:40:57 evilmike: jelly vault with glass walls and a single jelly inside, and a pile of 400 darts 20:41:30 I think there's something like that already, except the idea is to bother the player with slurping noises 20:41:39 ha 20:43:13 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:51 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:30 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:44 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:37 hm 21:37:47 I think if dragons get breath timeout, draconians probably should as well 21:39:06 -!- Wensley has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 21:45:29 Damn it 21:46:04 ah, 1 21:46:56 @??shadow dragon 21:46:56 shadow dragon (06D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 17 | Health: 105-152 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Damage: 2013(drain), 15, 15 | Flags: evil, cold-blooded, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(113), 02cold++, 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++ | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 3399 | Sp: b.draining (3d21). 21:47:09 @??ice dragon 21:47:09 ice dragon (16D) | Speed: 10 | HD: 12 | Health: 73-110 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Damage: 17, 17, 17 | Flags: cold-blooded, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 02cold++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1228 | Sp: cold blast (3d24). 21:47:23 @??pearl dragon 21:47:23 pearl dragon (08D) | Speed: 12 | HD: 18 | Health: 97-139 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 3508(holy), 2008(holy) | Flags: 08holy, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 5312 | Sp: holy breath (3d36). 21:50:40 ??iron dragon 21:50:40 iron dragon[1/1]: Multi-resistant metallic monster that likes to perforate your abdomen. Does massive damage. Avoid it if you can. 21:50:41 @??iron dragon 21:50:41 iron dragon (10D) | Speed: 8 | HD: 18 | Health: 104-132 | AC/EV: 20/6 | Damage: 25, 25, 25 | Flags: sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 07contaminated | XP: 2319 | Sp: metal splinters (3d30). 22:03:03 -!- greatzebu has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:30 anyone around who's familiar with the level loading code? I'm a little confused about Generated_Levels 22:08:13 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 22:27:48 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:32 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:38:38 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:39 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:30 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 23:01:19 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:01 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:05 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 23:10:05 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:11 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:32:16 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:22 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:33 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:21 -!- greatzebu has quit [Quit: greatzebu] 23:39:58 I just wrote a big wiki page (this channel is probably empty now, so I guess I'll mention it again when more people are here) 23:40:13 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:combat:fleeing 23:47:22 I think all your suggestions are less annoying than how it works now.