00:02:00 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:19 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1134-gd0e900d (32) 00:03:52 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:02 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:32 Modified Balrug Tile. (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4690) by LorrdErnie 00:12:33 Update to evilmike_haunted_forest (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4691) by evilmike 00:18:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1134-gd0e900d 00:19:31 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:35 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:45 -!- inspector071 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:31 where do unrands get brainstormed and added? 00:27:25 anyone want to test a new webtiles server for a couple of days? 00:45:25 morning, guys 00:45:38 hey, moin a5tp - how's it going? 00:46:11 good good :) sunny afternoon here 00:46:57 dark still here :D 00:47:45 hehe yes, about 6am? 00:47:54 i don't know how off UTC you are exactly hehe 01:00:23 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:01:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:30 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:21:42 -!- ixtli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:27 -!- ixtli has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:22:27 -!- ixtli_ is now known as ixtli 01:26:20 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:28:04 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:31:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Client Quit] 01:42:06 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:28 hm 01:53:33 I forget, can we tweak mon_attack_type? 02:09:56 kilobyte: I can't remmeber if mon_attack_type is ever saved. 02:10:09 I don't think it is 02:10:14 but I'm not sure... 02:18:57 oh, magic mapping of secret doors. Nice. 02:21:27 due, maybe it's saved in ghosts 02:31:54 yeah 02:32:00 that's the only thing i can think of 02:32:07 and I can shim around that 02:37:11 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 02:39:09 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:44 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:51 !seen SamB 02:41:52 I last saw SamB at Wed Oct 5 05:21:52 2011 UTC (2h 20m ago) saying (which would hurt whatever it evaporated at, but be nice to eat) on ##crawl. 02:42:17 SamB: Sequence (?'...) not recognized in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/v?(?' <-- HERE tag'(?'major'[0-9]+\.[0-9]+)(?:\.[0-9]+)?(?:-(?'pretyp'[a-zA-Z]+[0-9]+))?)(?:-[0-9]+-g[a-fA-F0-9]+)?/ at util/gen_ver.pl line 23. 02:42:49 you need a newer perl 02:43:04 perl, v5.8.8 02:43:10 yeah, that's really ancient 02:44:12 you need at least 5.10, which was released in 2007... 02:44:12 that's the default for RHEL 5 (which does use old versions often) 02:44:20 I got that error when trying to build crawl, just a few hours ago 02:44:53 I just found the line that was making it complain and replaced it with whatever it was before 02:44:57 no idea what i actually did but it worked 02:45:01 mmm delicious perl 02:45:35 SamB changed the regex to use named capture buffers 02:48:09 03zaba * rf8de631e76ad 10/crawl-ref/source/util/gen_ver.pl: gen_ver.pl: Don't use named captures 02:48:47 zaba: thanks :) 02:49:14 and now I have to go. Hopefully I didn't break it :P 02:50:35 hm 02:50:42 okay, so cherubs with different flavoured attacks are in 02:51:24 I sould probbably do speech too. 02:51:57 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 02:59:38 -!- Chousuke has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:59:49 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:33 that... is weird 03:23:06 why would static_cast(random_choose(AT_HIT, AT_BITE, AT_PECK, AT_GORE)) return 14968624 03:25:26 I feel stupid 03:25:48 terminate it with extreme prejudice! 03:25:51 oh 03:25:52 forgot the -1 03:26:06 why does it need that at the end? I can't recall why 03:26:18 it needs to know where's the end 03:26:33 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:37 hi 03:26:42 right 03:27:10 i forgot C++ can't work out how many args it's being passed via varargs :p 03:28:16 hm, this seems the cheapest method 03:28:59 kilobyte, is mon_attack_type saved anywhere outside of ghost_demon? 03:29:23 AHAH. it is. 03:29:51 * due shims 03:43:05 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:02:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:05:44 moin guys 04:05:47 hey due? 04:12:29 hi 04:14:37 hm 04:14:47 it's not really a significant change in action 04:14:50 but flavour-wise it's quite different 04:18:32 I'd like them to keep the bow-and-arrow though 04:22:14 Oooh 04:22:20 Cherubs are the hymn-singers and heralds of God 04:22:32 everything is a hymn-singer of god it seems 04:22:32 So I can steal the orc knight blood fury code... 04:22:41 seraphim, ophanim, and frequently angels too 04:22:53 well, hymns were important 04:22:56 :) 04:23:02 but the cherubs are the one surronding the throne and singingconstantl 04:23:10 i.e., post The Apocalypse, they'll sing a new song. 04:23:16 according to wikipedia thats the ophanim and seraphim 04:23:21 4 each or so 04:23:41 but probably a bunch of cherubs too :) 04:25:10 hm 04:25:13 potentially my mind is lacking 04:25:59 well, it says somewhere that the cherubs are tied to the ophanim 04:26:04 no, you are correct! 04:26:08 seraphs are the hymn-singers. 04:26:18 everything is a hymn-singer :/ 04:26:59 oh, Enoch reckoned they sang hymns too 04:27:22 !tell kilobyte in the same spirit of composing skill tiles with rltile commands, it would be very nice to have a command to rotate a tile by 90, 180 or 270 degree. I've put rotated copies of wall blood splats in the repository and that sucks. 04:27:23 galehar: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 05:00:05 OSX builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1135-gf8de631 05:00:57 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:12:46 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:03 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 05:34:01 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:46 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:54:00 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:03:40 galehar: sure, doable. However, it'd be a mess if you want to compose them -- the current tile syntax doesn't allow any complex compositing methods without adding new commands. 06:03:40 like, I had to add "texture" in three places, as regular, %compose and %back work differently 06:04:11 %compose and %back are the very same thing, BTW -- just in a different order wrt rimming, rehue-ing, etc 06:06:24 I was thinking of just adding a rotate command similar to how you added texture. Not sure about complex compositing. Not needed right now, but we could have colour variants for green (poisonous) blood splats for example. 06:06:34 I don't really know much about rltile 06:09:47 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:09:50 adding it on the backend is simple and clean 06:09:50 it's just frontend that is limited 06:09:55 hmm... if you need it just in the same places like recolouring, it can be done in the same place with the same limitations 06:23:51 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 06:30:40 perhaps we should examine using a different syntax for the rltiles frontend, then? 06:31:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:01 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:58 kilobyte: seeing as cherubs were the trumpeters (kinda) and throne-bearers, I'm giving them a "buff holies" ability akin to orc knights, etc. 06:53:00 thoughts? 06:54:43 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:22 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:59:32 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:17 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:02 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:13:44 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:58 due: could you point me to the part of them being trumpeters and bearers? I can't seem to find one. 07:16:13 throne-bearers is Elijah 07:16:43 and it mightnot have been trumpeters, I've lost the page I was reading on it 07:16:54 I can't actually remember if it was online or in a book 07:18:45 found about throne-bearing 07:19:35 it's a rather large split between non-corporeal things and pseudo-chariot wheels to john's rvelation on patmos. 07:20:09 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:22:21 hmm no: 1 Kings 6 has _statues_ of cherubs supporting the throne 07:22:29 (in Solomon's temple) 07:23:45 It might be rabbinical 07:23:50 I think it was the Jewish Encyclopedia 07:24:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:18 It mentioned how god took a cherub and flew uponit to survey the earth (though it made the point that the cherub was a tool, not actually doing the supporting) 07:24:41 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:30 Exodus has figures again 07:29:33 sorry, work 07:30:11 ggeezz the Warrior (L15 MDHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1071 failed on turn 39435. (Lab) 07:30:40 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:40 ggeezz the Warrior (L15 MDHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1071 failed on turn 39435. (Lab) 07:30:56 2 Samuel 22 has the god riding a cherub, yeah 07:31:20 no description though 07:32:49 2 Chronicles 3 has Salomon making giant cherub images: two-winged though 07:33:29 Ezra 2:59 has "Cherub" as a proper name of a place :p 07:34:33 portal vault! 07:34:49 Ne7:61 Ps18:10 are repeats of place names and riding, respectively 07:36:26 Ezekiel 9 (:3) is hard to understand, at least in KJV 07:37:20 * due nod 07:37:29 okay 07:37:32 g'night folk! 07:37:33 * due sleeps. 07:37:46 bye! 07:38:31 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:46:02 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:02 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:43 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:51 Here is some appropriate background music for abyss: http://countercomplex.blogspot.com/2011/10/algorithmic-symphonies-from-one-line-of.html 09:02:03 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:19 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:43 galehar: that's awesome :) 09:03:58 yeah, it's amazing 09:11:26 !lg ragdoll place=zot 6 -tv 09:11:27 6. Ragdoll, XL27 MuIE, T:88709 requested for FooTV. 09:16:57 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:58 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:27:21 -!- joosa has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:28:03 Napkin, kilobyte, greensnark: in dgl svn, i made the locale and the select-utf8-charset escape code sending configurable. esp. the utf8 escape code didn't work with nethack. 09:28:34 cool 09:29:42 is the dgl on the crawl servers different from what's in the develz repo? if so, then it matches the one in the dgl svn. 09:29:57 s/different/same/ 09:30:05 or whatever, you know. 09:30:10 uhm, the one on CAO i'm not entirely sure 09:30:26 but CDO has exactly the one from the repo 09:30:34 ok. good to know. 09:30:36 did you look at the unicode branch, paxed? 09:30:48 kilobyte added unicode capability to ee recently 09:31:04 I haven't yet had time to check it out, but sounds like a good idea in general 09:31:08 hm. i only looked at http://git.develz.org/?p=dgamelaunch.git;a=summary 09:31:39 and what greensnark has on github 09:31:57 those are the repos we use, yeah 09:32:33 the unicode branch was merged at a point, but just a few days ago kilobyte added unicode support for ee and put it in that branch again 09:34:01 (who uses ee anyway ;) 09:34:13 (hehe, exactly what I thought :D) 09:34:43 but also, we could do with a more modern version of virus 09:34:49 yup. 09:34:49 unfortunately I didn't find any 09:34:58 it's based on the busybox vi 09:35:10 CDO doesn't use the integrated ee or virus 09:35:21 it uses them as external programs 09:35:26 *nod* 09:35:30 to be able to offer both 09:35:40 so does nao 09:36:01 so, maybe we should change that too? 09:36:37 like.. permanently adjust the sources of both (main()) and add them as targets to the Makefile instead? 09:36:41 i've looked at the busybox vi vs. virus, but the diffs are kinda huge and i've never felt the need that much :) 09:36:56 hehe, same here, paxed :) 09:37:12 wait! kil0byte cursed about it! 09:37:21 there's already targets for those ee and virus in the Makefile. 09:37:23 CAO also offers two editors 09:37:47 but it doesn't say what the first one is called ;-) 09:38:06 !tell kilobyte have you looked into the virus issue yet? :> I'd be happy to have DGL execute a more modern (yet still safe) version of vi 09:38:06 Napkin: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 09:38:25 that "safe" part is the killer :D 09:38:46 so true 09:38:59 temporary chroot with hardlink to config file? 09:40:00 no, you really don't want a to maintain a secondary chroot 09:40:17 hm. dgl could make it on the fly. 09:43:19 sounds haxy 09:43:24 yup. 09:44:18 -!- galehar has quit [] 09:46:43 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:32 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110701115916]] 09:52:40 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:53:41 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:55 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:04:24 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:18 Napkin, paxed: it'd be probably easier to cherry-pick that commit 10:17:19 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:17:42 it is quite a quick-and-dirty job, it might be broken 10:17:59 -!- syllogism has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:18:09 I also didn't bother with proper piecewise charset conversion, so there's an extremely lame limit of 1MB 10:18:31 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:20 I later realized fgetwc() would do it in an easily codeable way, say a word and I'll replace that 10:20:00 (it's pointless to allow configs >1MB, but it's more of a principle thing: fixed limits are an abomination) 10:20:37 -!- terdatni has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:12 ee turns out to be an ancient pile of steaming pre-ANSI C that goes contrary to all reasonable practices. Like: local variables -- what's that? All is on globals... 10:22:09 Napkin: for virus, I didn't convert it because 1. it's ee what's the default, 2. there are probably tens of vi clones that can have file operations disabled 10:23:06 last time I searched I found none, kilobyte 10:23:59 time for a lobotomy then 10:24:34 I couldn't find any editor, where you could *easily* disable file operations, I mean 10:24:53 and.. a lobotomy would have taken me days 10:26:20 galehar, Zaba: sorry about the named groups; I didn't realize the feature was only 4 years old! 10:26:45 kilobyte: wow 10:26:57 even pre-ANSI had those, right? 10:27:06 I mean, they had arguments... they must have done! 10:27:49 SamB, you should've put in a use 5.010;, so that perl'd give a meaningful error message :> 10:28:36 Zaba: I didn't notice what eversion it required. Was that even in the manpage? 10:28:42 * SamB checks 10:29:30 it isn't 10:29:36 * SamB actually uses M-x perldoc, though, since w/ M-x man it gets fontified oddly due to mismatched quotes 10:30:02 oh, well, that would be part of the reason ;-) 10:30:56 (anyone know what version of etch has?) 10:31:04 *version of perl 10:32:04 -!- terdatni has left ##crawl-dev 10:32:24 huh, etch is TWO STABLES AGO 10:32:39 well, yeah, and even oldstable has 5.10... 10:32:44 at least 10:33:04 what does it matter? 10:33:13 now it works for perl 5.8 and 5.10 10:33:16 I heard CAO uses etch 10:33:16 that's great 10:33:26 and I was curious 10:33:35 I wonder a lot of things that don't really matter ;-) 10:33:42 it doesn't really matter much in this particular case, no, indeed the gain from using the new feature is pretty small here 10:33:50 yeah 10:35:42 okay, so yeah, etch is 4.0, and current stable is squeeze is 6.0 10:36:16 and sid is obviously 666.0 ;-P 10:36:24 hehe 10:36:41 * Zaba runs testing 10:36:48 well, you don't touch a running system, which so many people rely on, unless you have lots of time and a real need 10:36:59 that's a joke about Toy Story more than about Debian 10:37:25 I never said I thought that the system CAO is running on should be upgraded, now did I? 10:37:37 I might have wished it could be 10:37:51 as long as you install security upgrades, any antiquity is okay :P 10:40:00 do they still do security updates for etch? 10:40:27 of course not :P 10:40:35 hehe 10:40:51 I can't find where they say what they do security updates for 10:41:18 unless it's moved to archive.debian.org it's usually maintained 10:45:53 http://www.debian.org/security/faq#lifespan 10:47:31 okay, so they try to support stable, and oldstable unless it's been oldstable for more than a year 10:49:30 so, yeah, etch obviously ain't in there ;-) 10:54:48 * SamB goes to count how many zotdef abilities are actually available to players... 10:55:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:29 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:38 * SamB is pleased (though unsurprised) to see that Zaba preserved CRAWL_VERSION_MAJOR 11:06:25 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:43 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:07:58 kilobyte: so, that idea for allowing users to login directly to CAO/CDO, w/o having to "authenticate" with SSH and then do the real authentication with DGL? 11:08:22 do you think paxed would be interested? 11:10:11 ??Henzell 11:10:11 henzell[1/2]: Linley Henzell is the original creator of Crawl. He is also the ##crawl bot. If you want the source for *this bot*, go here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell 11:10:52 (how did Linley get botified?) 11:15:16 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:52 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:19:58 SamB: you mean, to hack sshd to allow connecting without any authentication? 11:22:02 why would a _nethack_ server need an editor with unicode capabilities? 11:23:25 bhaak: so you can set $PIZZA to something with an umlaut? 11:24:22 try it and be amazed how your display gets wrecked :) 11:24:56 don't forget, nethack does it all by itself even erasing characters and stuff and it only does it by counting bytes 11:25:20 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:49 also, there is no pizza in german that needs an umlaut ;-) 11:27:02 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:34:37 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:35:37 bhaak: what, no curses? 11:36:23 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:46 ggeezz the Warrior (L15 MDHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1071 failed on turn 39435. (Lab) 11:37:27 bhaak: doing Unicode without curses isn't that hard 11:37:37 bhaak: so, are you saying that the installer should be able to configure whether to use UTF-8 or ISO-8859-x or what-have you? 11:38:13 kilobyte: retrofitting nethack to use wchar_t and so on might be ;-) 11:38:33 like, my MUD client does all display without curses, and has full support for Unicode, far more complete than what I coded in Crawl. 11:39:20 SamB: wchar_t can't do combining characters, also you'd have to have some form of a null that goes after CJK ones (double width) 11:39:31 like handling CJK full-width characters with only one cell left on a line? 11:40:20 in the MUD client, I played on IRIX/Solaris boxes at the time, and their curses versions were... lacking. And the worst thing is, curses (any version, including ncurses) rely on terminfo which in turn relies on $TERM. 11:40:58 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:17 SamB: CJK on the last column is pretty standard: any implementation I know linewraps immediately (or fails if in a no-wrap mode) 11:41:34 you do need to care for partial overwrites though 11:46:26 ggeezz the Warrior (L15 MDHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1071 failed on turn 39435. (Lab) 11:47:04 ggeezz the Warrior (L15 MDHu) ASSERT(smc) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1071 failed on turn 39435. (Lab) 11:47:12 bhaak: what if you wanted to say it had Münster on it? 11:47:29 kilobyte: you are right, it isn't hard to do unicode by hand: http://unnethack.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/unnethack-enters-the-age-of-unicode-part-two/ :) 11:47:39 bhaak: indeed it isn't 11:48:03 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:57 SamB: problem is that nethack is counting bytes instead of characters. for example to know where to put the next sentence. so you get a lot of misaligned text 11:49:12 bhaak: that's why it would need to switch to wcwidth, yes 11:50:14 so, I guess it would be kind of useful for such things in DGL/ee/virus to depend on LC_CTYPE 11:50:28 Crashing in Labyrinth (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4692) by ggeezz 11:50:29 ? 11:51:50 (And somehow prevent that from being foo.UTF-8 on nethack servers) 11:51:52 but nethack is also extremely heavy on custom string manipulation. as long as you only use simple unicode point characters, it might work if instead of a char your wchar_t uses an int in its internal representaion 11:52:11 but if you go fancy unicode, it will just break 11:52:15 yeah 11:52:26 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:34 and their is no way you can write that stuff in the dust, huh? 11:52:38 er. there 11:55:02 the hackish conversion of ee I just did does exactly that 11:55:03 you can, but it will count the bytes instead of the characters and when it does the deteriorating of the engraving, it will just replace ä with an ?. also nethack does string input from the user by hand. so you'd need to write some code that correctly interprets backspace 11:55:18 no support for CJK or combining... 11:56:00 (will accept them and write to the file though, so merely the display will be mangled, though) 11:58:09 03MarvinPA * r82e6c709e3db 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Make 2s summoned by player Greater Demon remain friendly, only 1s turn hostile over time 12:01:44 !galehar I'm pondering messing with the food reform for transforms. Would it be a good idea? (You already can eat poison via ice beast). Dragon would have carni 2 (or 3) + sapro + maybe fastmeta, spider eating corpses directly, statue reduced make_hungry() calls (not just sustenance). 12:01:51 !tell galehar I'm pondering messing with the food reform for transforms. Would it be a good idea? (You already can eat poison via ice beast). Dragon would have carni 2 (or 3) + sapro + maybe fastmeta, spider eating corpses directly, statue reduced make_hungry() calls (not just sustenance). 12:01:51 kilobyte: OK, I'll let galehar know. 12:02:05 making nethack locale aware would involve a lot more than just s/str/wcs/ and that only for little gain :) although several players have used the utf8 display available in unnethack 12:02:48 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:21 my translations plan is nearly completely stalled :( 12:04:33 oh no /o\ 12:04:54 it'd be fun to make those silly German/French/etc speakers not know what's going on while watching my games :p 12:05:46 "Walisz ognistego giganta paÅ‚Ä… w Å‚ep aż iskry lecÄ…." 12:06:10 moon language alarm! 12:06:45 bad ugly Japs and Koreans would pull that on me though :( 12:07:40 the japanese versions of nethack just look really strange. 12:07:57 yeah, heathen language 12:11:51 bhaak: yeah, I just figured if ee/virus were, and you make sure the locale wasn't a UTF-8 one on nethack servers, that would work nicely 12:21:42 hmm. 12:21:56 I just got a "can't obtain charset info" error :-( 12:22:49 * dtsund brushes dust off screen, but sees kilobyte's text didn't change 12:27:41 It says on mantis that some of the transmutation forms (spider, ice and dragon) need new tiles. 12:28:02 If I were to do the ice form, would you rather have it a humanoid? 12:28:24 Humanoid doesn't make sense, because it needs to meld everything 12:28:33 Cloaks don't meld to ice form 12:28:43 ice form is supposed to be ice beast form 12:28:49 i.e. non-humanoid 12:28:51 Okay, *nearly* everything 12:28:58 not that anyone knows what an ice beast looks like :P 12:29:19 apparently it has paws, and also fists, and is capable of butchering meat with something as well (teeth? claws?) 12:29:51 maybe ice form could preserve chunks longer, since you're keeping them chilled? ;) 12:31:13 I don't see any description saying the ice form is anything like the ice beast. 12:31:31 At least not on the wiki or knowledge bots. 12:31:55 Apperantly it has hands. 12:31:57 ??ice form 12:31:57 ice form[1/1]: +20% HP, rF-, rC+++, rPois. Melds all armour except cloaks, but gives 5-12 AC (and has synergy with {ozocubu's armour}). 12+UC base damage with freezing brand. Players in ice form can float through water, but get no aquatic bonuses and can't reach submerged items. Found in Book of Changes, L4 ice/tmut. 12:33:22 "You can't wield anything in your present form." 12:34:10 in-game they are both described essentially just as ice creatures, and ice form changes your glyph to look like an ice beast 12:34:17 this seems like good enough evidence to me 12:34:37 tiles is no evidence for anything! ;P 12:34:43 if it was like statue form, you would be able to wield stuff 12:34:49 uh, what? I'm not talking about tiles 12:34:53 Mantis states that the tiles were added as placeholders. 12:34:59 They are looking for new tiles for spider, ice and dragon form. 12:35:02 I have no idea what the tiles look like 12:35:07 I am talking about console 12:35:14 on you said "glyph" not "tile"... 12:35:21 s/on/oh/ 12:35:37 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:04 Glyphs = Ascii representations? 12:37:29 I have an idea for submerging monsters that might make Swamp less annoying... 12:37:59 Submerging would be removed from most monsters, being the specialty of a select few amphibious ones (I'm thinking of alligators, but maybe one or two others could get it too). 12:38:10 You wouldn't be able to see submerged monsters from a distance. 12:38:21 dtsund: submerging isn't the problem with swamp nowadays 12:38:28 Genocide electric eels. 12:38:30 If you get within some radius of a submerged monster, it erupts and charges you down. 12:38:35 it used to be infuriating but it was already fixed to be a ton better 12:38:45 When was this? 12:38:55 0.6 or 0.7 or something? 12:39:18 Oh, well. 12:39:23 Still somewhat annoying. 12:39:31 not to say there can't still be improvements, but what people seem to complain about in swamp nowadays is stuff running away 12:42:37 elliptic: i've seen more recent complaints about submerged monsters (can't think where tho) 12:43:49 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:40 the problem is they're never a threat unless you step right next to them, but autoexplore stops that; so they're fairly pointless for the most part 12:45:59 most water monsters suffer from never being a threat unless you step next to them even if they aren't submerged, though 12:46:33 except eels, which is why they're great 12:46:45 and kraken! 12:46:50 yes :) 12:48:15 eels are something i still fear, thanks to them killing off what was a fairly promising character when i was fairly new at the game 12:48:43 so you should 12:48:43 eels are usually just worth excluding early on 12:48:46 whereas i've never died to a kraken because my spellcasters can usually destroy them easily by the time i do shoals 12:48:56 I mean, where applicable 12:55:40 eels are nice 12:58:09 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:44 -!- Galefury is now known as alefury 13:00:51 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:04 Just checking in to say that I've just read a DnD sourcebook that someone left at my place and like ninety percent of the monsters that are commonly found in early D are in there, as well as the classes and player races (including kenku!), so if you think that this isn't influenced by DnD, considering the wild array of places where those actually came from, you are mistaken. 13:02:13 -laughter- 13:02:16 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:51 Perhaps this will be food for thought to approve fur and hooves mutations for minotaurs, as opposed to just making them a weird, martially well-trained variant of a stupid Human. 13:03:08 ...Or you could give Humans bonus skill experience. :33 13:04:11 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:45 wat 13:06:54 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:18 I dunno why we even have playable humans 13:11:29 why not? 13:11:46 I think plain monster humans are more questionable :P 13:11:49 well, you can do anything a human can with another race - 13:11:55 well, I don't much like them because I never know what to train them in 13:12:04 and better, unless you're not planning to live through early D 13:12:26 though have to have plain monster humans, at least as a placeholder 13:13:00 as the species/genus values for the non-plain ones 13:13:14 also don't we need it for those swine? 13:17:00 that are reminiscent of the Odyssey? 13:23:00 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:20 -!- SamB_Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:44 -!- SamB_Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:40 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:11 a5tp: in the logs, i saw you mentioned a webtiles server ... is it updated to trunk? 13:49:45 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:25 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:56 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:50 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:07 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:32 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:23 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:15 !seen kilobyte 14:12:16 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:12:16 I last saw kilobyte at Wed Oct 5 17:07:57 2011 UTC (2h 4m 18s ago) saying yeah, heathen language on ##crawl-dev. 14:12:25 !messages 14:12:25 (1/1) due said (20h 58m 23s ago): awesome 14:13:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:20:28 I have written up something on traps, but it is long. As always :| 14:24:48 dpeg: where? 14:28:29 -!- Aerdan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:50 mumra: email to selected few :) It is controversial and if I do it on the wiki, I'll have to fight rubbish comments all day, no time for that. 14:32:53 -!- inspector071 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:53 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:22 -!- Twilight-1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:54 -!- syllogism has quit [] 14:48:36 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: Also the sun's turning black] 14:58:08 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:35 dpeg: so I hear you're a big fan of not doing things the Nethack way. Isn't promoting a closed discussion doing things the Nethack way? 15:00:59 I cannot hear you. 15:01:32 Did you remember to turn your hearing aids on? ¬.¬ 15:03:01 * dpeg can fully understand why the NH devteam went into the ivory tower and never looked back. 15:03:21 it seems like wielding cursed polearms let you train evocations 15:03:30 when i wield a regular spear it won't let me 15:03:43 Xiberia: now that is an interesting bug. Would you file? 15:03:45 but now i picked up a cursed trident that spawned beside an ash altar, and now it works 15:05:43 dpeg: sure thing 15:05:50 just let me figure out how 15:06:25 dpeg: Sure, it means they don't have to face the music. They also, however, did/do their best to ensure the game remains an interesting, fun experience for all comers. 15:06:49 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:51 dpeg seems to be getting old and his memory seems to be failing 15:06:54 Xiberia: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_report_page.php 15:07:04 the nethack devteam never left the ivory tower 15:07:05 * dpeg _is_ old. 15:07:10 they were BORN in one 15:07:10 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:29 * Aerdan is probably biased, though; he /grew up/ on Nethack… 15:08:21 * dpeg points out that the Crawl devteam do their best to ensure the game remains an interesting, fun experience for all goers. 15:09:04 That's not the impression I've been getting. 15:09:08 I don't think making decisions behind closed doors because you don't want to have to deal with dissenting opinions is a good hing 15:09:16 lies! the crawl devteam does their best to ensure the games remains deadly to every player! 15:09:22 bhaak++ 15:10:32 Then again… I'd like to believe that people would rather unbalance games in the player's favour than risk losing the player's interest. 15:10:36 rawrmage: I don't think you have an idea what you are talking about. 15:10:50 This is not about making decisions, but a test balloon on something. 15:11:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:27 then even more, the more viewpoints the better 15:11:28 The best tests are open to all, really. 15:11:31 all goers, you say? 15:11:57 rawrmage: Were you around when I openly discussed slimy walls? Or self-changing labyrinths? 15:12:15 Storms of stress for very little gain. Development is not a democratic process. 15:12:36 I think anyone who maintains a variant will end up under pressure for it 15:12:47 there are even people who have been annoyed at some of my changes in AceHack 15:13:14 ais523: there is someone who is annoyed by any little, random change. You can bet on it. 15:13:18 but yes, I remember the labyrinth discussion, and am still not sure if it was a good idea 15:13:20 dpeg: On the contrary. Ideas are /meant/ to be contested, for it's through the forge of public thought that they become grand. 15:13:37 ais523: the discussion or the change? 15:13:38 hmm, I think there are changes in AceHack that nobody complained at 15:13:40 Or peter out into nothingness. 15:13:41 but possibly because nobody noticed 15:13:46 Aerdan: how do you know for sure? Many games are developed in complete isolation. 15:13:51 rawrmage: the discussion was a good idea, the change is what I'm not sure at 15:14:14 dpeg: Most of which are lucky if they break 1mil units sold. 15:16:03 well, nethack and dcss fail completely for that matter. they aren't _sold_ :-D 15:17:35 hehe 15:18:19 At which point you track downloads. Simple. 15:18:43 I find it funny that someone feels the need to teach me about open discussions, when DCSS is all about it. Don't know about you, but I'd check an idea "let's remove Mummies and Halflings for 0.10" with fellow devs before making it public. 15:18:46 dpeg doesn't believe in nethack's huge number of downloads from sf :) 15:19:30 since when is the aim to get as many downloads as possible, anyway? 15:19:47 Xiberia: thanks! 15:20:08 Anyway. There's a difference between letting everyone know an idea is being discussed and inviting everyone argue over the idea. Either way, everyone should be aware of that idea. 15:20:23 MarvinPA: that is harmful in itself yes, at least if you're interested in good games/art/whatever. 15:20:49 I was just trying to get a few devs out of their holes but didn't succeed. 15:20:56 The best development model is where you work to build the best game possible, absent any other considerations. Defining 'best', though, is Hardâ„¢. 15:21:37 Cursed trident lets you train evocations (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4693) by Xiberia 15:21:42 * dpeg suspects Aerdan is a troll. 15:22:21 You can suspect whatever you like. 15:24:44 So… I can see why you'd want to remove Mummies. Why halflings? 15:26:51 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:01 hey 15:27:01 galehar: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:27:05 !messages 15:27:06 (1/1) kilobyte said (3h 25m 14s ago): I'm pondering messing with the food reform for transforms. Would it be a good idea? (You already can eat poison via ice beast). Dragon would have carni 2 (or 3) + sapro + maybe fastmeta, spider eating corpses directly, statue reduced make_hungry() calls (not just sustenance). 15:27:48 ... don't spiders have elaborate rituals for eating? 15:28:26 SamB: wrapping their victims in webs for a while first, you mean? 15:28:42 mumra: basically 15:28:45 kilobyte: sounds like a good idea. But better wait a couple of weeks to test the system a bit before. 15:28:45 dessication 15:28:50 wouldn't the transform probably wear off a bit soon? 15:29:28 galehar: so much noise about the food, it is deafening :) 15:29:32 I guess you could always go spider again to finish the job? 15:29:32 I thought that was mostly waiting for them to die/keeping them fresh 15:29:37 spider sucking corpse could be added right now though 15:29:52 hmm, point 15:30:03 spider form should be able to wrap the LIVING and save them for later 15:30:23 (the disadvantage being you would need to return to where you left them) 15:30:33 raskol: I think that spiders extract the valuable parts that way (what our stomachs do)... so they drink the essence, in the end 15:31:24 * SamB rebuilds his crawl with some DGL flags set... 15:31:36 somebody suggested that pressing e over a corpse would automatically butcher and eat the chunk 15:31:40 yes 15:31:50 it's not even clear whether Spider Form is the form of a web-laying spider 15:31:51 I mean yes to the macro 15:32:18 raskol: well, why does it have less trouble with webs if not? 15:32:23 raskol: by complete disregard to nature, spider form will allow to walk through all webs 15:32:53 well, it doesn't make so little sense in the console version 15:32:55 ;-P 15:33:00 anatomical porficiency :P 15:33:05 galehar: the wiki page has a complicated proposal for colouring food. What about simply adding suffixes? 15:33:23 r - megabut chunk {can eat when Hungry} 15:33:24 what suffixes? 15:33:34 those suffixes 15:33:35 *visible* suffixes? 15:33:36 mmm, megabutt 15:33:42 in complete english? 15:33:57 (won't that make highlighting harder?) 15:34:05 chunks/food items have short descriptions 15:34:37 -!- inspector071 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:34:43 SamB: I got this idea when I saw that {unknown} in shops works better than the colour system I preferred. 15:34:48 can shorten it to {edible if Hungry} 15:35:01 dpeg: of course it works better 15:35:05 it's self-documenting 15:35:14 hmm, I see what you mean 15:35:18 SamB: so I want something similar here 15:35:36 revolting, disgusting, gross, edible(0), palatable, appetizing, delicious, 15:35:37 where's the colour proposal? 15:35:38 so, this colour system used to exist? 15:35:44 for shops? 15:35:47 won't that clutter up the inventory? 15:35:52 (no reason we can't have both...) 15:35:55 (although I'm against adding more colour coding until we've documented the existing ones) 15:36:17 mumra: was thinking the same 15:36:32 maybe adding adjectives like the ones raskol just said would be less cluttering? 15:36:49 bhaak: but more confusing 15:36:50 bhaak: but they're less self-explanatory 15:37:05 galehar: it was a comment at the end of my take of Vintermann's proposal 15:37:14 but I don't want colours anymore, suffixes are much better :) 15:37:46 will the suffixes change as it rots? 15:37:46 also, there's a little problem with the satiation level. eating a brown chunk (666) at very hungry (2066) makes you satiated, but you go back to hungry (2600) very soon 15:37:47 you know, shops could have both colours *and* suffixes... 15:37:50 raskol: sure 15:37:53 raskol: of course 15:38:00 galehar: yes, I noted 15:38:13 SamB: one is enough. The current system is good. 15:38:35 dpeg: fine 15:38:42 I think adjectives are better than a phrase for inscriptions. We can give more details in the item description. 15:38:58 as you say 15:39:29 galehar: the newbies disagree 15:39:31 you should put the detail into the -vore descriptions as well 15:39:46 raskol: not really needed 15:40:39 "You can tolerate rotten meat." But it's still inedible for some reason at Hungry. 15:40:41 Suffixes like {edible if hungry} are longer, but get the point across right away... no need for item descriptions. But if galehar prefers adjectives, that is fine with me. 15:40:44 regarding satiation levels, I suggest we move hungry from 2600 to 2800 15:40:47 having to memorize the armours in AC order is enough trouble 15:41:12 galehar: yes, that was another good point on the forum. 15:42:04 * SamB is glad that rather few files actually use the DGL flags he set 15:42:12 perhaps we could use one bit of colouring: food you cannot eat right now should be darkgrey 15:42:34 we has that already, hasn't we? 15:42:40 oh, wait, that's food you can never eat 15:42:43 yes 15:42:43 dpeg: let's start with the more explicit inscriptions while everyone is getting used to the new system. We'll see later if we can replace them with adjectives. 15:42:51 galehar: good! 15:42:53 I think "not right now" should not be the same colour as "never 15:42:57 maybe yellow 15:43:07 {Unfortunately, you cannot eat this right now. Sorry} 15:43:22 SamB: yellow is preferred food :P 15:43:29 I meant brown 15:43:37 I blame IBM 15:43:38 yes, brown would work 15:43:53 (silly CGA monitors!) 15:44:53 changing brown from meaning contaminated to "can't eat right now" make sense. 15:45:03 galehar: in my game (died at XL 14 to Aizul), I found food balance to be much better than before 15:45:09 someone should write up a "highlights" entry for food reform at some point 15:45:20 for ?V 15:45:24 jpeg is writing a Xom report 15:45:29 SamB: ah, for ?V 15:45:47 SamB: yes, good point. How about you? :P 15:45:48 but probably let the dust settle some more first 15:46:03 I suppose I could 15:46:08 did you like the other one I did? 15:46:45 yes, it's fine 15:49:40 SamB: I can never decide. Should I document it now? If I do, it will be obsolete soon since the new system will surely need some adjustment. But if I don't, players won't understand it. 15:49:58 galehar: the suffixes will suffice for now. 15:50:09 those don't even need any documentation 15:50:10 * dpeg likes to answer even if not asked 15:51:05 but should we suffix all food? "bread {edible if full}" 15:51:21 yes 15:51:30 really? 15:51:33 yes 15:51:40 we can remove later 15:51:47 okay 15:51:52 but this will get the point across best 15:52:20 For release, I'd suggest to only print suffixes for permafood if something is modified (mutation). 15:52:29 ok. I guess we'll ultimately only show it for food inedible at satiated, but for now, being exhaustive is probably better 15:52:51 players will complain about spam instead of lack of documentation for a change 15:53:41 Oh, where should the divine asssistance with Evo/Necro be documented in the game? 15:54:09 SamB: can you do it (inscriptions and colours) or are you busy with something else? 15:54:23 do which? 15:54:57 oh, wait 15:55:00 food inscriptions and colouring brown the ones inedible at the current satiation level 15:55:19 I have to take the dog out now so she'll behave better at the vet soon... 15:55:29 SamB: you mean the fact that having a nemelex ability allows you to train Evoc? 15:55:38 galehar: yeah, that 15:56:04 and wasn't there something about necro, too? 15:56:27 -!- raskol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:33 yes, kiku abilities use necro 15:56:59 well, you already documented evoc and nemelex when you updated the skill screen help 15:57:02 with a typo 15:57:22 oh, did I say Namelex? 15:57:25 I do that a lot 15:57:38 no, Nemelex Xobah 15:58:10 and you put "divine assistance" for spell schools, so it's probably fine 15:58:14 oh, well, I'm sure it got the point across regardless 15:58:35 most of the skill screen help should be taken to the manual btw 15:59:04 I just thought that somewhere, possibly someplace that showed in ?/G, it might be good to mention that 15:59:19 we could take the whole thing to the manual and pull it back out from there ;-P 16:00:16 galehar: true, I can do that 16:01:56 galehar: did you mean it should be removed from the skill screen help, too? 16:02:08 SamB: no, not at all 16:02:10 copied 16:02:27 ah, okay ;-) 16:02:27 oh, I was about to shorten the skill screen help a bit 16:02:37 dpeg: what were you going to take out? 16:02:44 not take out, move to manual 16:03:16 yes, I meant what were you going to move? 16:03:26 lines like "You must always have at least one skill enabled. 16:03:31 dpeg: yes, I agree. Some stuff can be less detailled as long as the details are in the manual. 16:03:48 but a reference to the manual might be helpful if you do that 16:04:15 "You must always have at least one skill enabled" is now kind of obvious, IMO 16:04:23 before it actually had some effect 16:04:42 (you couldn't focus on level 0 skills by disabling everything) 16:07:46 man, this new abyss is really nice 16:07:51 should go in highlights 16:08:54 so i made the change that i think was suggested a while ago, for magic mapping to be able to detect secret doors (but not reveal what's behind them) 16:09:08 which reminded me that we should probably remove the crystal ball of seeing, any objections? 16:09:27 since it's essentially just free unlimited mapping like (presumably) the old div spell 16:09:41 our manual is so dated in places 16:09:53 MarvinPA: +1 to both 16:10:10 dpeg: isn't it your job to keep it up to date? ;) 16:10:23 MarvinPA: +1 here too 16:11:18 galehar: hey, mobbing! 16:12:19 I think the 'E' command is pretty pointless now. 16:13:04 true. You want to salvage the key? 16:13:21 oh hahah, i just tested out the mapping change on a random tar:7 and discovered that it has a secret area that i never even knew existed! 16:13:34 even despite having read most of the des files :P 16:14:08 MarvinPA: is it a random position? 16:14:24 not sure, but it's tar_mu so quite probably 16:16:22 what does E do, again? 16:16:47 " You are a level 10 Human Assassin. You are 0% of the way to level 11. 16:16:47 Play time: 00:04:24 (7 turns)" 16:17:31 the only thing that makes it worth keeping is probably the "With the way you've been playing, I'm surprised you got this far." message when you're at level 27 :P 16:18:02 haha 16:20:14 E shows faketurns?! 16:20:29 that too, yeah :( 16:20:48 a crucial information for every highscore 16:21:05 i think % shows that anyway, even if you have game_turns shown? 16:22:03 I think so, yes. 16:22:04 yes, show_game_turns only affect the stat area 16:22:10 E can go, or be deprecated. 16:23:23 btw, I was thinking of changing that option. Make it only affect the turn count display, and have another option to control the display of the last action duration. This one could default to on. 16:23:46 so many options... :( 16:24:31 wouldn't displaying the duration of the last action next to the default (non-game_turns) turncount be a bit confusing? 16:24:49 hmm. maybe. 16:25:09 Oh no, how will I now obsessively press E when trying for a high score. 16:25:22 but new players have a hard time understanding the time system, weapon delay,... 16:25:41 stuff like jewellery swap only takes half a turn isn't documented anywhere. 16:28:27 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:11 galehar: any Kiku power will do for Nec training? 16:30:50 any that uses the necro skill for success (and thus practise it when used) 16:31:15 but how would the player know that? 16:31:27 which means both of them actually 16:31:32 ok 16:31:48 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:48 03dpeg * r7eaacbd11866 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/database/help.txt: Minor changes to skill help. 16:39:45 you can have a look if I did it justic 16:39:46 e 16:43:04 it's great, good job 16:44:58 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:12 thanks, spent a little less time with the manual, but nobody is reading that anyway 16:47:12 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 16:55:39 morning 16:57:11 hey due 17:00:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:50 Who do I need to talk to, in re the logs? I need to point out that the server doesn't report a sane encoding (i.e., it doesn't tell browsers that it's UTF-8). 17:12:27 Doy, I think? 17:22:05 -!- Ryak has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:39 -!- Ryak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:41 03galehar * rf502aa4e4bab 10/crawl-ref/source/ (6 files): Skill training code clean-up and tweaks. 17:40:41 03galehar * r85c296f55e08 10/crawl-ref/source/ (player.h skills.cc tag-version.h tags.cc): Keep track of disabled skill practise events. 17:40:41 03galehar * r59069cbe23d7 10/crawl-ref/source/food.h: Increase the hungry satiation level from 2600 to 2800. 17:46:08 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:19 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:09 03MarvinPA * rf776ce4c7e03 10/crawl-ref/source/ (10 files in 2 dirs): Remove crystal balls of seeing 17:48:26 MarvinPA: i see what you did there 17:49:17 due: I see what you did there 17:49:49 :D 17:49:53 heh 17:51:27 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:38 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:29 I am going to push new cherubs shortly. 17:55:45 argh 17:55:50 did someone bump minor version too? 17:56:30 i think it was bumped recently-ish 17:56:36 * due glaaares 17:56:38 ;) 17:56:41 (easily resolved) 17:58:29 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:59 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:05:37 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:27 due: whats new about the new cherubs? 18:06:32 anything super cool? 18:06:41 or super creepy? 18:07:10 cool, not really. They use flaming swords, not freezing ones. 18:07:32 ... 18:08:16 You see, if you want to throw out the "most precious" of god's creation out of some place but keep them unharmed, you should use a sharp burning implement not something non-lethal, right? 18:08:39 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:00 exactly. show them whos boss, then heal them up to show how nice you are. 18:10:07 by the way, serpent of hell seems too weak 18:10:29 to me at least 18:10:39 @??serpent of hell 18:10:40 Serpent of Hell (05D) | Speed: 14 | HD: 20 | Health: 101-140 | AC/EV: 12/9 | Damage: 35, 15, 15 | Flags: 05demonic, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(346), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10779 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), fire breath (3d40). 18:10:46 @??pit fiend 18:10:47 Pit Fiend (071) | Speed: 8 | HD: 19 | Health: 98-148 | AC/EV: 17/5 | Damage: 28, 21, 21 | Flags: 05demonic, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(304), 05hellfire, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4470 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), melee, torment symbol. 18:11:28 nearly twice as fast, but still, kind of wimpy 18:13:24 yeah, I'm dbating making any sword they get flaming 18:13:25 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:33 @??cherub 18:13:33 cherub (07A) | Speed: 10 | HD: 14 | Health: 96-137 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Damage: 25, 10 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(149), 05fire, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1965 | Sp: minor healing. 18:13:50 kilobyte: I'm going to make them weaker than stock angels, but give them the holy buff 18:14:17 kilobyte: I'm thinking I might even make the holy buff work on the player if you are a holy follower yourself, but I'm not sure how overpowered that would be 18:15:45 due: my lame-ass version has them with blessed swords (random among several types) of flaming, that's probably ok 18:16:08 buffing, as in, lieutenant / trumpeter thing? 18:16:27 yeah 18:16:51 Jewish Encyc7lopedialists them as one of the three types of creatures (Seraphim,Ophanim and Cherubs) who sing endless praises to God. 18:16:59 Our ophanim are ... slightly more mindless though. 18:18:30 ophanim are probably my favorite holies right now 18:18:43 the flame prison is sweet 18:18:56 you don't need to be humanoid to be intelligent 18:18:59 alefury: prison? 18:19:14 they make holy fire in the 8 squares around you, but not on you 18:19:29 its awesome when they are mixed with other creatures 18:20:53 eh? They got regular bolt of fire. 18:21:02 @??ophan 18:21:02 ophan (05G) | Speed: 10 | HD: 15 | Health: 78-118 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Flags: 08holy, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1852 | Sp: b.fire (3d24), holy flames. 18:21:59 kilobyte: play more crawl :P 18:22:52 ah, it's just Gretell showing it the same as the other holy flames 18:23:06 there are other holy flames? 18:23:18 fire crap-like 18:23:24 -!- Ryak has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:28 @??pearl dragon 18:23:28 pearl dragon (08D) | Speed: 12 | HD: 18 | Health: 97-139 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Damage: 3508(holy), 2008(holy) | Flags: 08holy, sense invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 5312 | Sp: holy breath (3d36). 18:23:30 * SamB is having trouble getting milestones out of crawl... 18:23:31 you mean this? 18:24:56 those are cool too. its nice that they block sight when there are enough 18:25:12 they last really short, but that feels pretty good too 18:25:49 the ophan ones last quite long 18:25:56 i really like the new holies :) 18:26:22 looking forward to properly seeing them in action 18:26:28 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:39 there would have to be some weak holies to make a proper holy branch though 18:27:58 -!- Ryak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:24 -!- Ryak has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:31 alefury: yeah 18:29:49 apis is the only one that could count 18:30:21 oh hrm, dire elephant weak 18:30:38 well, it would probably a hells level branch, right? 18:31:19 so dire elephant weak is not that much too strong 18:31:26 there was a lot of talk about having a Pan level for now 18:31:31 the really weak stuff is supposed to be phased out in the late game anyway, right? 18:31:45 pan level would be great. how would runes be handled? 18:31:58 in fact, I added support for monster lists to work in Pan just two days ago 18:32:07 4/5 generated? replace demonic? no holy rune? 18:32:26 why would it have a rune? 18:32:39 its a special pan level, the others have one 18:32:42 :) 18:33:28 there's many Pan vaults, many with runes, only four of them with a guaranteed one 18:34:20 demonic could be replaced imo, pan lords guarding most exits works as incentive to fight them, at least for me. not necessarily with holy rune or another pan lord. 18:34:29 just something to keep in mind. 18:34:36 APIs are not *supposed* to be monstrous... 18:34:54 hi, sorry 18:35:07 kilobyte: yes, ophanim have a couple of attacks 18:35:19 they surround you in flames to keep you stationary though :) 18:35:36 due: someone mentioned monsters called "apis" 18:35:49 at least, that's what it seemed to be 18:35:56 @??apis 18:35:56 due: there's no feedback they _surround_ you in flames rather than place you in a cloud like every other cloud attack in the game 18:35:56 apis (16Y) | Speed: 10 | HD: 16 | Health: 100-148 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Damage: 4008(holy) | Flags: 08holy, lev | Res: 06magic(106), 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1763. 18:36:20 SamB: Elyvilon's holy cow 18:36:53 kilobyte: oh, hm 18:36:54 just a dumb animal, although with branded horns 18:36:59 SamB: yes, apis 18:36:59 that entry is not accurate, they have heal i think, and since recently heal all their allies on death sometimes 18:37:15 I think that's Ely's retribution 18:37:19 yes 18:37:26 kilobyte: huh, weird 18:37:28 kilobyte: I''ll fix that then 18:37:44 due: fix what? 18:37:54 * SamB was worried due might have been apoligizing for some API 18:38:46 kilobyte: not clear about surrounding rather than filling you with flame 18:40:08 you get a prompt when you try to enter the flames 18:40:25 "Blessed fire suddenly surrounds you!" -- but it's just a message among spam, with what you see on the game screen looking exactly the same as being hit with a cloud. 18:41:33 perhaps the background of player's glyph could be altered when in a cloud 18:41:44 that would be a good idea 18:41:58 currently it's always white 18:42:05 lightgray that is 18:42:55 (DOS-style console doesn't allow bright backgrounds, and many terminals follow that restriction) 18:43:55 kilobyte: *still*? 18:45:02 hmm, I guess there are some where you need a special attribute to get the bright versions of the first 8 colors for foreground... 18:45:15 Steve Jobs is dead?! 18:45:19 yes. 18:45:26 oh dear 18:45:28 ...wait, you probably saw me bring it up. <_< 18:45:37 Torokasi: Yes, precisely. I am spreading it far and wide! 18:45:45 Fair! 18:45:54 https://twitter.com/#!/ap/status/121730495347294208 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/statement-by-apples-board-of-directors-2011-10-05 18:45:59 for reference. 18:46:05 ouch 18:46:06 i wow 18:46:22 that's 18:46:27 there goes apple? 18:46:33 Also: http://www.apple.com/stevejobs/ 18:47:22 SamB: He left Apple recently, or at least as the head dude/spokesperson. 18:47:32 what's the point of an empty page with "please wait to redirect in 5 seconds"? 18:47:43 (the one you linked to) 18:47:50 Aerdan: . . . 18:48:05 Aerdan: that is 18:49:20 did we ever come to an agreement on a reasonable timeout for breathwapons for dragons? 18:49:51 Torokasi: do you know what happened the last time he did that? 18:52:35 SamB: Point. 18:58:24 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:58:47 $*&!@# partition table fragged on my data drive :( 18:58:56 ouch 18:59:01 how many partititions did you have? 18:59:13 at least they have, you know, headers... 18:59:24 i can see the partition; but it's coming up as RAW (instead of NTFS) 18:59:59 do you have a real partition table editor? 19:00:53 no 19:02:00 fdisk <3 19:02:05 also testdisk 19:02:30 fdisk may actually be enough 19:02:44 (yes, even fdisk.exe!) 19:03:46 i don't think i have fdisk on windows 7 19:03:56 just looking at testdisk ... 19:04:19 -!- pointless_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:26 mumra: what the? 19:04:35 oh, huh 19:04:42 oh, nevermind 19:04:46 I don't seem to have it myself ;-) 19:05:45 "Windows 2000 and later do not use fdisk" 19:05:55 hmm 19:06:01 I thought it was the user who used that, anyway 19:06:17 ? it was part of msdos 19:07:08 ah, it's been called diskpart since win 2k 19:08:09 * SamB does not think the OS ever sat there punching commands into fdisk ;-P 19:08:20 oh lol 19:08:42 though installers can perhaps have passed them in by other means 19:09:17 apparantly normal users aren't even entitled to help on diskpart.exe! 19:10:03 * SamB starts an adminstrator console 19:11:23 This is what happens when I run it as me: 19:11:39 you get a command prompt 19:11:42 C:\Documents and Settings\Sam>diskpart /? 19:11:43 Microsoft DiskPart version 5.1.3565 19:11:43 Copyright (C) 1999-2003 Microsoft Corporation. 19:11:43 On computer: SAM10 19:11:43 The disk management services could not complete the operation. 19:11:51 oh 19:11:55 hmm, it works for me 19:12:05 well, I'm not an adminstrator 19:12:07 and this is XP 19:12:17 on xp that shouldn't matter ;) 19:12:20 it works fine when I run as administrator, of course 19:12:26 of course it does 19:12:32 on windows 7 i had to run as admin also 19:12:42 most people just don't ever have any non-admin accounts 19:12:48 on XP 19:13:12 true but even so, there were big security flaws 19:13:34 the biggest was that non-admin was completely unusable 19:14:12 (at least, almost) 19:14:33 (I'm managing!) 19:20:44 Is someone aware that prompting to eat chunks isn't working well? 19:23:27 Yeah, it's been mentioned here. 19:25:18 due: have you used testdisk on ntfs? i'm just a little unsure which options to select 19:25:41 mumra: Iv'e used it on FAT32 and ext3/ext4, so no, sorry 19:25:55 i can "write partition table" ... is that likely to fix things ... or just leave me with an empty drive? 19:26:06 I'm not sure 19:26:16 it sees the partition but won't list files, it says "filesystem might be damaged" 19:26:17 Did you try googling "testdisk ntfs repair partition table"? ;) 19:26:41 yeah, it came up with examples from their wiki, but they're not very thorough and don't cover my situation 19:26:49 hm 19:26:59 Try photorec andsee if it will find files on the drive? 19:27:10 hmm, good plan 19:27:21 If it will, then, as far as iam aware, write partition table shouldn't wipe out anything that photorec can find 19:27:43 due: doesn't that only work for jpegs? 19:28:01 No, actually 19:28:23 itworks on a whole shitload of file types and headers 19:28:35 * SamB must have been thinking of some other thing 19:29:35 ok, it's recovering a whole bunch of stuff 19:29:45 which is a good thing! 19:32:24 rebooting, fingers crossed ... 19:34:11 -!- mumra[1] has joined ##crawl-dev 19:34:22 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:37:03 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:15 so, what's the food reform good for? 19:39:33 eating? 19:40:54 invisible pink unicorns. 19:41:24 making people irrationally angry 19:41:29 but in seriousness, it uh, seems to benefit ogres solidly at a gutcheck? 19:41:42 (like all good changes!) 19:41:49 ##crawl is on my do-not-join list for the next 24 hours 19:41:52 they say it's a lot of annoying complexity for little gain... 19:42:25 generally i think evilmike hit it on the head in that the two different thresholds for eating chunks are a bit annoying 19:42:30 i don't even disagree with a lot of the naysayers opinions, its just weird how they actually get emotional about it 19:42:33 and have some negative consequences 19:42:37 other than that it's pretty much fine 19:42:37 ... and leads to the need to micro-manage food consumption and keep track of exact satiation... 19:43:00 evilmike: yeah, i should probably have followed your lead there 19:43:05 well, they're upset that they don't see much sympathy from developers 19:43:23 it's a delicious negative feedback loop 19:43:48 maybe we should apologize for seeming unsympathetic on the blog? 19:43:54 SamB: no!! 19:43:59 We are never sympathetic ;) 19:44:06 that might be the issue 19:44:07 We are cold, heartless people. We are robots! Unemotional! 19:44:14 you should just ignore people who get overly angry 19:44:19 Reverts are cheap. 19:44:21 How bad is the change? 19:44:22 due: you could write that on the blog, too 19:44:28 or instead 19:44:35 just ignoring it and letting people calm down sounds most sensible 19:44:38 I think they have a sense of humour that they are aware of 19:44:48 then perhaps there is room for actual worthwhile discussion 19:45:00 MarvinPA: That's my usual approach -- and if there is still unhappiness in a few weeks, we can re-look at the situation. 19:45:13 well, attempting to do something about some of the legitimate concerns now probably wouldn't hurt either 19:45:27 Not at all, no. 19:45:31 Enumerate them? 19:45:51 well, the thing about the incentive to manually keep track of satiation sounds important 19:46:04 the legitimate concerns as far as i can tell are the one thing that evilmike mentioned 19:46:10 anything that encourages manual tracking needs to diaf 19:46:22 everything else seems to be kneejerk "this is bad and i hate it", so far 19:46:30 MarvinPA: cf. megabats 19:46:35 rip megabats :( 19:46:41 :( poor megabats :( 19:46:43 I'm not sure they mind the complexity per-se 19:47:01 evilmike: what are your issues with it?> I Can't see them in scrollback 19:48:04 food reform made crawl unplayable because prompting to eat chunks is broken 19:48:13 this is my detailed opinion 19:48:14 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2757&p=32879#p32879 (the rest of that thread is pretty worthless, but that post is nice at least) 19:48:39 I see a statement that skill system improvements are worth the annoyance of the the food reform 19:49:04 pointless_: then that needs to be fixed immediately 19:49:27 pointless_: oh, yes, I had run into that too... 19:49:40 should mantis it! 19:49:44 okay, so, we need to fix, immediatley, eating chunks 19:49:51 I don't know who's doing stuff anymore 19:50:03 the food reform was an outside patch, afaik 19:50:33 * SamB isn't sure why we take patches that big... 19:50:42 SamB: cf. arcane marskmen, rip 19:50:49 evilmike: I don't think the hungry/very hungry differentiation is significantly more complex than current behaviour; better messaging as to when you can and can't might be good 19:50:55 arcane marksmen came back! 19:50:59 evilmike: but it's not much different to only being able to eat chunks when you're hungry 19:51:02 admittedly nothing like their initial form :P 19:51:03 :( arcane marksmen guy got real mad about it iirc 19:51:15 yes, arcane marskmen guy did 19:51:23 oh, i wasn't around for that i guess 19:51:26 to the point of demanding to be removed from the credits 19:51:38 I forgot his name so that's almost the same thing 19:51:41 ??arcane marskmen 19:51:41 I don't have a page labeled arcane_marskmen in my learndb. 19:51:44 :D 19:51:51 did you put him in a special section for people who don't want to be in? 19:52:32 no, he's in the commitlog though 19:54:59 hmm, yeah, I guess this isn't exactly TPB 19:55:37 we aren't in the business of posting nastygrams on our site, pointing at them, and laughing... 19:55:53 precisement 19:58:26 hmm, maybe we should add soup preparation as a new skill 20:00:33 you know those advantages that enums have over #defines for magic numbers? 20:00:46 ... it turns out those are also disadvantages :-( 20:01:48 kilobyte: could you benchmark compiling with and without PCH=yes, by any chance? 20:03:56 due: i don't think testdisk can fix it :( ... moving onto commercial recovery tools. 20:04:11 due: the hungry/very hungry isn't really a huge increase in complexity, but it's a noticable one (at least for me) 20:04:32 I dont think it is a big deal, but it's a minor annoyance at least... an extra level of micromanagement 20:05:14 personally when i'm playing, i'm usually watching out the corner of my eye for when "Hungry" appears so i can eat a chunk 20:05:32 but Hungry changing to Very Hungry isn't as easy to notice 20:05:39 hmm 20:05:53 should have a "chunks edible" indicator? 20:05:57 or change colors again? 20:06:32 well that doesn't fix the actual problem that it means you should eat chunks in a certain order 20:06:52 I personally play with easy_eat and all those other related options (ought to be defaults, really) 20:07:01 there's one for prefering brown chunks I think... 20:07:21 its' probably ebcause we're so used to being abnle to eat chunks at hungry 20:07:40 it's not particularly more complex than remembering when vampires can do whatever 20:08:04 last time i tried the easy_eat options i kept accidentally eating in los of monsters 20:08:10 MarvinPA: that should be handled by the chunk choice 20:08:10 since it becomes a single keypress 20:08:24 you know, it should offer you the stuff you should eat first first 20:08:25 not that problematic... 20:08:34 a lot of roguelikes will straight up kill you for a wrong keypress :P 20:08:51 sure, eating interface is pretty bad in terms of consistency though 20:08:58 evilmike: ADOM 20:09:04 Frickin' ADOM 20:09:11 crawl used to do it too! 20:09:20 if you look at deaths on turn 1, a lot of them are drownings in an entry vault 20:09:47 MarvinPA: hmm, what exactly are you referring to? 20:09:51 not that I doubt it 20:10:40 well, in particular with the easy_eat options, sometimes eating is a single keypress, sometimes it takes you to a menu 20:11:00 I never tried those 20:11:20 anyway, I think it could really help if there was a food summary in the status area 20:11:28 yeah, it is a single keypress if you are carrying edible chunks 20:12:27 with total # chunks of each level of appeal listed, and the edible ones colored differently than the inedible ones 20:12:36 one day i'm gonna take it further and macro a key to butcher a corpse and eat a chunk 20:12:43 maybe use E or something 20:12:45 (of course, they might not all fit...) 20:14:00 i guess "ee" is always safe at least 20:14:46 it's the spellcasting interface that gets me most :P 20:15:59 one my my old rcfiles has a crude lua script that "fixes" spellcasting a bit by muting almost every message 20:16:09 and swaps Z and z I think 20:16:18 i do it by macroing z to Z, yeah 20:16:22 and adding a bunch of force_mores 20:22:44 03SamB * r8aa7ded15ec4 10/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt: Throw any players who happen to check ?V a bone w.r.t. food reform. 20:23:27 haha 20:23:30 very productive 20:24:45 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.7/20100713130626]] 20:24:55 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:25:35 I'm operating under the assumption that most players have a sense of humour ;-) 20:25:49 i wouldn't bet on it, but perhaps 20:26:03 they do but it tends to lead to stuff like 20:26:08 ??Grand_grimoire 20:26:08 grand grimoire[1/1]: Demonic Horde, Haunt, Summon Greater Demon, Malign Gateway, Summon Horrible Things. Requires 10 summoning and 6 spellcasting or Vehumet worship to read, and causes summoning miscasts on failed memorisation. 20:26:12 oh, that got deleted, nm 20:26:13 i purged that 20:26:28 bad ideas would be the best example though, yes :P 20:27:05 by the way I was wondering, how do the new scrolls of magic mapping act with rooms that are completely sealed off? 20:27:16 same as before 20:27:16 crawl still has some vaults where you need teleportation to get to the loot (box_level is a good example) 20:27:37 one thing I remember about magic mapping is it would never map the inside of box_level, because it does a weird thing with secret doors 20:27:43 hmm, possibly those vaults should just be changed? 20:28:11 changed how? 20:28:16 doors removed? 20:28:33 most vaults with secret loot tend to give hints now 20:28:44 the one I mentioned is oldschool though... I think it was made with divinations in mind 20:28:59 well, it does have a huge box in the middle 20:29:09 that looks sort of suspicious 20:29:38 true, but you need to really aim for the right spot to teleport in 20:29:42 i don't think i've seen it in a regular game though 20:29:45 oh 20:29:50 you know, i've seen that loads of times, and thought it looked mighty suspicious, but never realised there was actually anything inside it 20:29:53 evilmike: maybe *that* is what needs changing 20:29:55 ah i see, there's more boxes inside that 20:30:05 and the boxes are completely surrounded by teleporters 20:30:20 oh haha, so they are 20:30:52 huh, so if you run out of teleports inside a box you're actually stuck? 20:31:12 in that one, yeah... 20:31:22 perhaps they should just get down hatches in the boxes 20:31:27 a lot of newer vaults tend to use no_rtele_into for stuff like that, but I doubt that existed back then 20:31:27 then mapping would also map them 20:31:50 are we sure the dungeon maker doesn't already do that? 20:32:21 didn't when i placed it in wizmode 20:32:34 afaik it's perfectly willing to generate cut-off rooms if it's in a vault 20:33:15 oh 20:50:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:58:54 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:11 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:36 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:04 -!- Twilight-1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:37 -!- Wensley_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:03 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:37:05 -!- Wensley_ is now known as Wensley 21:42:02 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:02 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:28 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:31 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:35 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:50 Gas trap clouds shouldn't be autoexcluded (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4694) by rriegs 22:14:22 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 22:16:46 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:36:31 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:40:00 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:29 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: something happened] 22:43:32 hmm 22:43:43 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:43:53 _There is some deep water, spattered with blood here. 22:44:19 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:46 SamB: Heh, that shouldn't happen. 22:45:57 yeah 22:46:02 SamB: In fact, I actually thoguht there were checks in place to prevent it. 22:46:07 especially considering it looks just like lava 22:46:14 (i.e., blood gets cleaned off features that can't have blood on them when iterating over props) 22:46:21 So something's come unstuck somewhere. 22:46:31 I was in the abyss 22:46:45 I'm pretty sure the blood was fake 22:46:57 Ah. 22:47:17 but the thing is, it looks just like lava that way 22:47:27 We could maybe tweak the description to "pool of blood on the water", I suppose. 22:47:40 No, actually, that doesn't work in the physics of it. It should just be disallowed, fake or no. 22:47:41 so abyss intentionally does that? 22:47:46 I don't know! 22:47:49 If it does, it shouldn't. 22:47:57 okay, probably it's just not being careful not to 23:17:49 Could be a problem with morphing, maybe. 23:20:31 almost certainly 23:20:37 that's, like, what the abyss does 23:35:46 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:52 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:44 -!- Ryak has left ##crawl-dev 23:59:34 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1142-g8aa7ded (32)