00:03:28 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1015-gffe86cf (32) 00:05:30 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:34 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:52 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:16 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12:53 -!- stabwound has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:14:35 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15:12 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:42 -!- stabwound has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:40 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1015-gffe86cf 00:34:08 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:13 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:08:27 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:42 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:51 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:14:18 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:00 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 01:29:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:51:10 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:04:55 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:08:19 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:27 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:36 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:42 -!- Zaba has quit [Changing host] 02:09:43 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:01 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:27 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:02 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:46:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-1015-gffe86cf (32) 02:53:13 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:25 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:59 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:34 -!- ixtli has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:20:47 how does my character manage to put on gloves while wielding a cursed weapon? 03:21:14 magic 03:21:23 it is a particular curse 03:21:47 -!- Xiberia_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:04 want to know the real magic: you can swap rings without taking off your gloves, unless they are cursed 03:24:21 this probably means that gloves are fingerless normally, but grow fingers when they become cursed 03:24:23 they're fingerless gloves 03:24:26 haha 03:24:59 -!- bhaak_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:03 -!- DaneiTWO has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:01 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:01 -!- cbus has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:02 -!- Eifeltrampel has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:02 -!- Napkin has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:03 -!- stabwound has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:03 -!- Twilight_1 has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:03 -!- monqy has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:03 -!- |amethyst has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:04 -!- ainsophyao has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:04 -!- MakMorn has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:05 -!- mumra has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:06 -!- Adeon has quit [*.net *.split] 03:30:06 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net 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-!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:34:18 -!- ortoslon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:18 is it a bug that i can't train my 2.7 Axes skill when i don't have an axe in my inventory? 05:36:20 not a bug: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/skill-training 05:43:03 huh? 05:43:28 "To train a weapon skill, you need to carry a weapon of the appropriate type, but you don’t have to wield it." 05:43:40 oh, he said cant 05:45:43 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:33 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:14 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:35 -!- ais523 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:20:45 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:46 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:55 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:58 -!- ortoslon has quit [Quit: bye] 06:46:50 -!- Xiberia_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 06:49:19 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:22 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:02 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:34:04 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:02 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:25 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:22 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:40 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:19 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 08:31:20 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:26 -!- lorimer has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:37:13 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:52:54 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:02 a spreadsheet with the food reform numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqvhLOPFHpiMdGlkWFpybUc5X3VNbmdwQmhNWm9MMkE&hl=en_US 09:06:32 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:08:22 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:43 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:09 CDO updated this morning with the new skill system and... Not a single crash! 09:16:14 yay! \o/ 09:16:34 time to refactor the code... 09:20:44 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:26:19 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:46 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:35:30 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:38:07 -!- ghallberg has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:43:42 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44:00 -!- tekfunk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 09:48:16 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:48:34 -!- tekfunk has quit [Client Quit] 09:49:48 -!- ghallberg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:21 -!- tekfunk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:38 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:06 apparently DK doesn't have invo skill listed until it gets recall 09:59:15 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:05 Shandreya (L26 HECj) ASSERT(in_bounds(src_pos) || src_pos.origin()) in 'mon-behv.cc' at line 863 failed. (Crypt:5) 10:02:04 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:05:22 -!- ghallberg has quit [Quit: Changing server] 10:06:50 -!- gustaf_arg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:01 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:04 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:23 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:46 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:51 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:09 Failing to wield a weapon unwields your current one (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4648) by ion_frigate 10:43:34 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0/20110922153450]] 10:48:14 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:51 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:35 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:55:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:29 -!- monqy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:19 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:50 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:23 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:32 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:08 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:43:44 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:09 * SamB hits #4648 himself and decides to take a look 12:01:25 hmm, looks like if we just check wieldability before doing the unwield, that should take care of it... 12:02:12 of course, it would also mean that sometimes when there is more than one reason not to be able to wield a weapon, a different reason will be complained about 12:02:35 i remember there being a similar issue reported a while ago and it was decided to leave it as-is because it'd be a lot of work/refactoring to make it behave nicely 12:02:45 MarvinPA_: really? 12:02:51 what was meant by "nicely?" 12:02:58 i think so, i'll see if i can find the issue 12:03:05 okay 12:03:24 meanwhile, I'm going to see what happens if I just swap those two paragraphs of code 12:03:51 not that I'd necessarily run into whatever misbehaviour it might cause, but... 12:04:46 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:30 Oh, you know what would be awesome? 12:08:09 If there was a file listing which nicknames (and possibly emails) went with which real names 12:08:18 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:24 there is, on the wiki 12:08:35 huh 12:08:53 really, I guess I'd like to see it in the CREDITS file... 12:09:06 not sure how up-to-date or complete it is 12:09:07 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:devteam 12:09:40 well, I doubt many change their real names ;-) 12:10:04 in terms of newer devs, i mean :P 12:10:11 sure 12:10:16 doesn't look like elliptic's on there at least 12:10:23 does he even have a name? 12:10:53 I have a name but don't like to use it for much :P it is in the credits though 12:10:59 you can figure it out by a process of elimination from credits.txt i imagine :P 12:11:11 I mean, he doesn't seem to have told git about any name he might have 12:12:03 Ohloh just lists him as elliptic 12:12:46 (which actually makes it easier to follow) 12:15:32 I guess current contributors are listed in that CIA hook, in some form 12:16:06 well i can't find that issue i mentioned 12:16:09 (though somehow I still come out as "naesten" in CIA's messages) 12:16:48 but there was definitely some problem or other 12:16:51 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:17:09 MarvinPA: any idea how far back this was? 12:17:17 aha 12:17:18 found it 12:17:19 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4083 12:18:40 if you're not in the CIA hook, it'll use your email address 12:19:01 Zannick: someone tried to add me, though 12:19:03 minus the @domain stuff 12:19:16 so it seems they messed up somehow 12:19:49 -!- Fyren has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20:55 oh 12:21:02 information leakage 12:21:03 SamB: I added you to the hook but it takes a manual update from Napking 12:21:17 kilobyte: ah 12:21:28 the king of naps 12:21:52 and I did not trouble him with doing that yet 12:22:01 so it's run by a clone of the real repository ??? 12:22:33 -!- Fyren has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:39 no, wait, that doesn't make sense either 12:22:50 hmm, I guess it's not run from the checked-out copy of the script? 12:23:59 not everyone is as trusting as pugs, I guess ;-) 12:24:21 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:07 -!- lorimer has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:37 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Iceape 2.0.11/20110701115916]] 12:25:39 Your dog could probably get commit access to pugs, and would then be permitted to update the script that generates commit messages in #pugs. At least, that's how it wokred when I did it. 12:27:14 (It looked like the slightest misstep might result in a need for manual intervention from someone with access to the account under which the script ran, but I never actually found out.) 12:31:52 -!- Twinge_ is now known as Twinge 12:31:55 why is actor::can_wield not pure virtual??? 12:35:17 and, why is player::can_wield something else again? 12:35:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:05 because crawl source is buckets of fun 12:36:22 oh 12:36:24 I see 12:36:38 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:41 there are two actor::can_wield methods 12:37:04 one of which *is* pure virtual, and the other of which just calls that one 12:37:27 after checking for a NULL item_def * and constructing a dummy, if required 12:37:50 ok, hooks linked now 12:38:14 geez - i really have a million mirrors of crawl on CDO 12:38:30 Napkin: do you have them set up to share object databases? 12:38:48 different mount points 12:39:12 different access permissions - that's the reason in the first place 12:39:17 ah 12:39:47 anyways, used the one for knowledge bots website 12:39:52 updated once a day 12:39:58 cheers! 12:47:16 MarvinPA: any idea why one might want to check if an OBJ_UNASSIGNED was wieldable? 13:04:57 zotdef: Dowan and Duvessa appear individually? (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4649) by SamB 13:05:00 oh, someone should probably mark https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4648 as a dupe of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4083 ? 13:06:39 do it, SamB :) 13:06:52 Napkin: I would 13:06:59 reload and try again 13:07:40 ah, I have the needed bit(s) now, I see 13:07:47 thanks 13:08:01 since you are going through them anyways ;) any help is welcome 13:08:20 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:58 Sling skill unavailable (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4650) by minstrel 13:16:06 * SamB wishes he could set the state of #4586 back to resolved 13:17:03 * SamB tried, and failed, to provide the "Confirmation of Resolution" that mantis said it was looking for 13:17:39 the idea is to set "closed" then 13:17:49 try again, it's marked as resolved again 13:21:21 so, normal users will be permitted to do that now, I assume? 13:21:35 they always have been 13:21:48 i don't know how you managed to set it to acknowledged 13:21:50 really? 13:22:09 the only choice they should have is "feedback" (as in re-opened) or "closed" (as in confirmed) 13:22:30 you are an so-called "updater" now, who has more permissions 13:24:21 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:44 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:07 Crash when starting as a Draconian Skald (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4651) by Amonchakad 13:35:12 -!- dtsund is now known as dtsund-afk 13:42:33 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:49 Napkin: I guess you should review the configuration and/or test with a "submitter" account 13:45:47 new issue, i can set feedback and acknowledged 13:46:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:46:34 how about resolved issue? 13:47:01 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:00 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:25 possible options then: feedback, acknowledged, closed 13:55:32 only feedback and closed left now 13:57:10 thanks, SamB 13:57:19 you're quite welcome 13:57:20 now, give me a rest ;-P 13:57:25 sure 13:57:30 :) 13:59:58 mumra: which is canonical right now, docs/develop/levels or the wiki? 14:00:50 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:25 definitely the wiki page will replace the document in git sooner or later 14:02:52 But which should I change now if I want to make an improvement? 14:03:14 (And won't that be painful with the wiki not versioned together with the code?) 14:04:35 I can't help but think that gitit might be a lot better for that kind of thing than dokuwiki... 14:06:14 Napkin: uhm... 14:06:56 Napkin: 1. it is orders of magnitude slower to read, 2. not in sync with the actual code 14:08:05 Napkin: if you want to change a vault, you have documentation for the exact version just next to it. No need to think why this new doodad doesn't work. 14:08:16 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:43 no, gitit is way less accessible to many people, SamB 14:10:18 reading maybe, modifying access not 14:10:40 Napkin: to the contrary, it is more accessible by the kind of people who are likely to contribute 14:10:51 and convenient for taking patches 14:11:35 I have to agree with dpeg in this matter 14:11:47 anyways, no need to discuss this topic over and over again 14:12:03 that's not at all clear 14:12:38 -!- ais523 is now known as callforjudgement 14:12:39 mumra is modifying the text-export of the wiki - sooner or later the master document will be the one in the wiki, as soon as i understood 14:12:56 *as far as i understood 14:14:00 there will be a way (like make docs) which will get the documentation in text form - that should be ok for everyone 14:14:42 Napkin: but what about synchronization? 14:15:15 the document in git will at most contain a link to the wiki page.. or will be deleted 14:15:19 three Ziggurat sets use non-existant "place:Pan" (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4653) by KiloByte 14:15:32 and of course, someone will need to sync it before that goes life 14:15:53 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:54 Napkin: I meant, how will the document on wiki be kept synchronized with what is in git? 14:16:03 also, that won't work for more than one branch at a time... 14:16:08 things CHANGE 14:16:12 you mean that instead of convenient tools we're going to have to fire up a browser, navigate several pages and search in them? 14:16:31 no thanks... 14:16:38 * Napkin flips a coin * 14:16:41 and navigate to the branch in question... doku doesn't have a concept of branches 14:16:48 sorry guys, not today 14:16:48 now, with gitit we could actually offer both types of UI *at the same time* 14:16:56 you'd have to code a plugin, and I doubt you're going to 14:17:18 so we'd end up with documentation that either applies to a future branch or a stale one 14:18:24 oh, and what about "git blame"? Or, "git log"? 14:18:51 yeah, needz the pickaxe 14:19:09 not to mention just old plain "grep". doku has a search which can't even look for anything but a static text, can't display context, etc 14:22:23 -!- callforjudgement is now known as ais523 14:24:22 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:37 -!- Adeon is now known as MaryPoppins 14:29:52 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:09 kilobyte: We will be trying to make documentation as easily accessible to you. You will get the text file. 14:30:36 But many contributors are not coders and the presentation in the wiki is easier to follow, especially for the more advanced stuff. 14:31:04 for tile contributions, I understand 14:31:10 If you insist on rolling back mumra's changes, we will do that but I will from then on not feel responsible for uploaded vaults anymore. 14:31:41 mumra invested a lot of work and it is a net gain even if it is a loss to some of us. 14:31:49 which changes do you have on mind? 14:32:05 mumra wikified all the text files. 14:33:18 I'm not sure how other folks feel, but at least in my attempts, using a browser is really clumsy 14:33:27 In contrast to game documentation, I don't think there are problems between stable and trunk for vault documentation. 14:33:42 not a fault of mumra -- any documentation work is really appreciated, just one of the medium 14:33:42 kilobyte: you will get your text file, I started with that. 14:34:17 the issue is, I cannot make an edit, stash it and maybe resume work on it a year later 14:34:29 edit of what? 14:35:28 of some feature 14:35:33 Half-finished vaults don't rot. 14:35:44 vaults don't really need documentation 14:35:50 Documenation would have to be updated on the wiki, yes. 14:36:08 (With the manual, we gained a number of outside corrections from that, by the way.) 14:36:38 for example, I have a local unfinished branch with MONS: corpse_name: and corpse_mons: -- it's dated 2010 Jun 06 14:36:46 as long as the commit message says in what way vault syntax was changed/augmented, there is no problem 14:37:04 kilobyte: but do you also have a local change to syntax.des? 14:37:25 If not, it is the same (w.r.t. docs) old or new style 14:37:30 as a MONS: specification, of course 14:38:06 Okay, so it does affect you as a coder. 14:38:35 The best way then is to put all of this information into the commit message with a reminded that someone got to update the wiki. 14:41:28 I understand the wiki approach means more work for you as a coder (not to mention that you like txt docs better anyway) but it makes it much easier for players to contribute vaults. Since we have few coders and more vault makers, the change is good. I can only offer to take the docs work off of you. 14:42:54 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:34 looking at vault makers, I wouldn't call them people with little technical skills. This goes in contrast to tile artists, who usually don't know where to look for source tiles and base their work upon tiles shipped in binary packages, or don't understand concepts like non-100% alpha. 14:47:00 I have got vaults by contributors who wouldn't know about glyphs (i.e. a pure tiles background). This will increase in the future, I am afraid. (There used to be a time when vaults would used COLOUR but not FTILE but now it is more often the other way around.) 14:47:14 oh, BTW, speaking of vaults and tiles. I tried starting a holy Pan level (with some custom tiles!), but it really goes to the shitter once you have more than one holy monster next to each other and worship a good god. 14:47:33 they start beating one another since conversion chance is never 100% :( 14:48:15 oh 14:48:23 -!- dtsund-afk has quit [Quit: dtsund-afk] 14:48:33 no idea what we actually want in such a case 14:49:33 same can happen in Ziggurats, too 14:50:57 what about having a fixed piety below which no holies will go neutral, and above which 100% will? 14:51:56 you'll still get issues with monsters fighting each other near the edge of los probably 14:52:20 this happens in slime with jiyva sometimes, for instance 14:52:38 even if we made them not attack each other, having some ignore you while their friends fight you would be odd. In real word, troops do talk to each other and usually either the whole squad agrees to be ok with you or they all fight. 14:52:46 elliptic: good point 14:53:00 couldn't we have a global foo-does-not-fight-foo mode beyond piety threshold 14:53:03 orcs in Orc, too 14:53:05 best would be if monsters didn't have to see you to turn neutral 14:53:31 elliptic: as in, recursive? Or global? 14:53:54 by recursive, if an orc converts, all orcs in his LOS in turn get a chance. 14:54:00 I was thinking global 14:54:04 recursive could work too 14:54:11 I don't think this is an issue with beogh, by the way 14:54:13 by global, I mean that the moment you enter a level everyone converts or not 14:54:36 yeah, orcs are too random for the player to notice 14:57:21 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:32 hey 14:57:40 galehar: meow! 14:58:06 Hi! 14:58:19 galehar: I replied to you in the forum gift thread! 15:06:52 03kilobyte * r44b0788f321b 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Don't give draconians Armour skill at start. 15:06:57 03kilobyte * r74e9e6f57de6 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/pan.des: A pan vault with some shining bacon. 15:08:04 so... I've got a question: I want to execute some code every time a monster leaves the player's sight in any way. how / where do I best do that? 15:08:14 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:32 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:50 edlothiol: why? 15:09:19 edlothiol: on the UI side or in the game? 15:09:47 (I mean, the more we separate model from presentation, the better) 15:10:19 I'm adding a client id to monsters, to identify them between turns so I don't need to send the full monster info every time a monster moves 15:10:39 that sounds ... complicated 15:10:47 how will you know what may have changed? 15:10:58 view.cc:276, if MF_WAS_IN_VIEW 15:10:59 there is currently no way to know where a monster from the map_knowledge was in the turn before 15:11:28 yes, but there's probably also no way to know if it was even the same type of monster the turn before 15:11:41 before the flage is removed, you check it. If it's set, then the monster is leaving sight. 15:11:43 yes, but it's rather probable ;) 15:12:35 anyway, this should obviously be reset when the monster leaves sight so the player can't know if he's seen a monster before 15:12:36 it just seems like you'd have to save away copies of every piece of info about the monster so you could see what had changed 15:13:13 SamB: yes, that is basically what I do (it's also what is done for the map) 15:14:08 ah, thanks galehar 15:14:59 SamB: well, copies of the monster_info, not the monster itself 15:15:29 are there any other situations you can think of where this id should be reset to prevent information leaks? 15:16:39 galehar: does he need to do anything special on inter-level travel? 15:17:34 SamB: I doubt he has any off level leak 15:20:09 yes, the client ids aren't even saved 15:20:40 edlothiol: I can't think of any, but the whole code around handle_seen_interrupt isn't completely reliable. Se my latest comment on #4638 15:21:13 kilobyte: btw, have you read it? What do you think of it? 15:22:01 galehar: gifts? As in, the wiki discussion? 15:22:51 no, my comment in https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4638 15:23:16 about monsters coming into view 15:23:20 and buffered mpr 15:24:41 sadly, it's not just a message 15:24:58 tile display can crash, so can lua hooks, etc 15:25:22 exclusions, Ashenzari, ... 15:25:24 galehar: so, is it really the end of the world for the player to be able to ID a vampiric weapon before unwielding his current one? 15:26:40 SamB: no, it's not the end of the world. It's just a bug :) 15:27:12 well, it's still not fun to end up weaponless, either... 15:27:32 the issue about going from distortion to unidentified vampiric is valid... 15:27:59 what happens there? 15:28:02 or +Lev/+Inv, etc 15:28:35 currently, you end up with unwielded distortion -- you had to before trying the new weapon 15:28:45 I guess the proper fix would be to split the wield check in 2 parts. Check first with what you know about the weapon about to be wielded, then unwield, then do another wield check (and avoid duplicate warning etc) 15:28:47 (or on the ground/visible) 15:30:17 but the whole wield / unwield code is quite ugly, it's not very funny to hack it 15:30:32 -!- Twilight_1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:50 -!- Twilight_1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:44 oh hm 15:31:53 but it takes 0 turns to unwield the weapon? 15:32:07 does it? 15:32:11 that's a bug! 15:32:13 yup 15:32:31 a pretty abusable one 15:32:51 btw (maybe related) dropping your wielded weapon takes only the time to unwield it (0.3) 15:32:53 carry a weapon that you can't wield, then try and swap to it for instant banishment attempts 15:33:01 -!- Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:33:08 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:33:34 if you're unarmed, it's actually quicker to wield something before dropping it rather than dropping it right away 15:33:47 (although it's just 0.8 vs 1.0) 15:36:05 hmm... I have 7 points rot, and &H adds 7 to my real max hp every time (but the rot stays) 15:36:15 * SamB doesn't really understand vampiric weapons 15:36:51 edlothiol: use potions 15:37:31 SamB: yeah, it's not much of a problem, I just thought I'd mention it 15:38:16 that does sound awfully coincidental, though 15:40:50 -!- Pingas has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:36 galehar: want me to try and fix the timing? 15:52:28 which timing? 15:52:34 oh right 15:52:43 yeah, go ahead 15:52:51 unless MarvinPA is already on it 15:53:03 nope, it's all yours :P 15:54:11 Maybe prompt the player to pick a different weapon? 15:55:07 any thoughts on having Wr start with apportation memorized and St start with fulsome memorized? 15:55:17 it feels strange not to with the training restrictions 15:55:37 that doesn't sound particularly odd 15:55:56 alternatively we could make carrying a book be enough to train skills for spells in that book... 15:56:14 elliptic: I'd be fine with either way. 15:56:15 carrying *or* knowing spells, hmm? 15:56:16 elliptic: I don't see any problem with starting with the first spell memorized, just like all the other casting backgrounds 15:56:47 Tm didn't, I think, but that was always odd 15:57:13 Tm didn't because people were always saying "but what if you want to worship a good god" 15:57:22 but I'm not particularly convinced :P 15:57:42 I still don't understand that question 15:58:10 well, good gods don't refuse you just because you have a necro spell memorized. As long as you're not using it... 15:58:21 yeah, and amnesia is common now 15:58:49 it used to be that players would be stuck with that spell until they found selective amnesia spell... not a problem now :) 15:59:15 and it's only one level... 15:59:27 they can always destroy their starting book if they really want to get rid of it :) 15:59:46 galehar: that would zap the rest, too, though ;-P 16:00:05 which could perhaps be reasonable if you found good gear for another approach 16:00:18 samb: well, you could memorize whatever else you want first 16:00:47 elliptic: but wouldn't you just forget it again then? 16:00:52 Automatic unique annotations are sometimes incorrect (leaked from previous games?) (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4654) by Twilight 16:00:52 no 16:01:02 destroying a book just amnesias one spell 16:01:06 not the entire book 16:01:07 oh 16:01:21 I never really tried it when not with trog, so ;-) 16:02:00 I am curious how often book amnesia is actually used. 16:02:20 I use it a lot, but I think a lot of people don't know about it or don't remember it 16:02:33 i use it quite a bit as well, yeah 16:02:52 Should we advertise it better (in game)? 16:02:56 perhaps many misunderstand it's workings 16:03:10 when i'm planning on forgetting something i always check if i have it in duplicated books, or in a book that i don't want anything else from in order to save scrolls 16:03:40 which is usually the case in the later game, earlier on i use scrolls more often 16:03:55 I destroy my starting book eventually in most games, I'd say :P 16:04:12 heh yeah, same 16:04:36 I'm not sure how we would advertise it better but it might be good to do so if possible 16:04:41 Tutorial 16:04:41 It occurs to me that I proposed both ways of book destruction. Must be the heritage. 16:04:46 probably in most 3-rune games there's not much need for lots of amnesia anyway 16:04:54 MarvinPA: that is also my experience 16:05:38 I've gotten the impression that I use a lot more spell slots than most people 16:05:42 dpeg: lol heritage 16:05:48 I get a lot of spellcasting titles :P 16:06:09 03elliptic * rc2528fc162e1 10/crawl-ref/source/ng-setup.cc: Make Stalkers and Warpers start with a spell memorized. 16:08:17 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:34 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:08 03edlothiol * r7e355bfe1317 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/static/game/ (game.js render.js): Make Webtiles cell size variable. 16:16:08 03edlothiol * r56e6f7b2fd96 10/crawl-ref/source/ (12 files in 3 dirs): Send parts of map_knowledge to the Webtiles client. 16:16:09 03edlothiol * r0f2e4f93bf05 10/crawl-ref/source/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Refactor Webtiles rendering, and more preparations for monster list. 16:16:09 03edlothiol * reaf9bc1db6d1 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/ (4 files in 3 dirs): Webtiles: Redo the layout of the right column to make it more flexible. 16:16:09 03edlothiol * r8c40f7043321 10/crawl-ref/source/tileweb.cc: Fix the view sometimes being black after taking a stairs in Webtiles. 16:16:09 03edlothiol * re2152d344dea 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files in 2 dirs): A monster list for Webtiles. 16:16:20 03edlothiol * rd20ba134bcc3 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/static/game/ (dungeon_renderer.js game.js): Allow looking at other locations by right-clicking on the minimap in Webtiles. 16:16:20 03edlothiol * raf37f272c11c 10/crawl-ref/source/view.cc: Reset the client id when a monster leaves the view to prevent information leaks. 16:16:20 03edlothiol * r730f7b9bda68 10/crawl-ref/source/webserver/static/game/ (dungeon_renderer.js game.js style.css): Reduce Webtiles cell size for small screens, and other layout improvements. 16:20:55 edlothiol: monster list in webtiles? It's getting ahead of local tiles! 16:22:35 Once edlothiol adds a letter tile set, he's also ahead of console, local or not :) 16:23:12 dpeg: I have a mostly-working ascii-mode 16:23:21 version 0.10 will be called webcrawl 16:23:33 Dungeon Crawl: Web Soup 16:23:58 :D 16:24:01 -!- R18 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:22 more stones 16:24:37 there are stones in the game but there is no soup in the game 16:25:29 potion of porridge 16:25:44 there is, but you can't see it. What do you think the orcs do with your corpse when you die in the mines? 16:26:03 teabag 16:26:08 03MarvinPA * r932f328ea23c 10/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/ (altar.des overflow.des): Don't place altars guarded by angels as overflow altars 16:26:10 * Torokasi clamps hand over mouth. 16:26:21 just leave it there and wander around some more 16:26:23 obviously 16:26:31 also, thank you edlothiol for the webtiles work 16:26:37 as experimentally verified by felids 16:26:58 this is just because cat soup is disgusting 16:27:16 the proper way to eat cats is roasted 16:27:18 Torokasi: :) 16:27:42 edlothiol: awesome! 16:29:45 dpeg: yeah, it will need a bit more work though, and I'm not sure how useful it would really be once it is possible to watch webtiles from ssh (which is my next goal) 16:30:58 watching webtiles in ascii from ssh would be amazing 16:31:15 any chance of getting ttyrecs also? 16:31:37 * SamB has failed wields that leave you empty-handed print the appropriate canned message, too 16:31:40 that would be cool, yes. I'm a tiles person but don't mind console, might view in console/play in tiles? Iunnno 16:31:53 elliptic: yes, that would be part of it 16:31:57 :) 16:32:39 obviously each of ttyrecs / ssh watching is simple, given the other 16:34:10 * dpeg bows to edlothiol 16:34:18 yes, actually, watching in dgl works by playing the ttyrec live, as far as I know 16:34:39 I wonder how long we're going to stick to the crutch called dgl. Looking at some devs here, it'll take a while :) 16:35:12 as opposed to adding server functionality to crawl itself? :P 16:36:12 what is DGL? 16:36:43 dgamelaunch, the problem which handles playing crawl via telnet/ssh 16:37:57 was that intentional or freudian 16:38:07 argh 16:38:20 freudian ;) 16:38:40 <3 16:38:43 I actually didn't even notice the typo until you wrote that 16:40:23 :D 16:44:48 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: zzz] 16:46:25 edlothiol: what about watching console games from webtiles? 16:48:55 yes, that would also not be much work when the other direction works 16:50:12 dgl is now a problem? 16:50:26 but as it would basically involve running a webtiles-enabled crawl for console games, it might be better to first test this a bit for ssh->webtiles only 16:50:47 I don't actually think dgl is a problem ;) 16:51:22 and if it were, it wouldn't be mine! 16:51:55 If it's anyone's problem, it's probably Napkin's. 16:51:57 although its source is not fun to read... 16:55:39 patches accepted. if i ever get around to putting greensnark's changes in... 16:55:42 paxed: it's not possible ot watch webtiles games via dgl 16:55:51 (is the gist i got) 16:56:03 oh, ,nm 16:56:09 i am barely awake and cannot read :) 16:56:34 due: i don't know how crawl does webtiles. nethack.alt.org supports it, by adding special escape codes into the ttyrec stream. 16:57:37 yeah, oursr is significantly different 16:58:08 03MarvinPA * r6df978ce34a5 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Don't create 2 snakes from 1 stick, upgrade venom-branded weapons as well 16:58:56 MarvinPA: would S2S fun for chaos branded weapons be too nethackish? 16:59:08 kilobyte: tentacles apparently increases regular unarmed damage as well as giving an aux, making it clearly better than the other appendages 16:59:15 it might be a bit 16:59:37 elliptic: do you have an idea by how much? 16:59:40 minmay already asked for special snakes for every brand in ##crawl :P 16:59:52 iirc people were talking about removing one of those effects from tentacles though to make octopode unarmed less ridiculous 17:00:04 kilobyte: tentacles 3 is +3 unarmed base damage 17:00:06 snakes? It was not just snakes I had in mind :p 17:00:08 half as good as claws 17:00:48 chaos-branded weapons should turn into shapeshifters in snake form 17:00:55 heh 17:01:02 (which can become non-snake) 17:01:17 too good at that stage of the game probably 17:01:34 well, chaos weapons are rather rare 17:02:03 yeah, just Yiuf and once in a blue moon chaos clubs in a Xom vault 17:02:16 and a Xom effect 17:08:13 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:15 -!- Galefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:21 -!- Galefury is now known as alefury 17:08:38 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:57 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:59 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:16:08 03SamB 07refs/merge-requests/9 * re4248668c10d 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-item.cc: Clarify prompt for &% (create item by name) wizard mode command. 17:16:09 03SamB 07refs/merge-requests/9 * rac594a7dc1d1 10/crawl-ref/ (docs/develop/levels/syntax.txt source/mapdef.cc): Refer to the full lists of possible egos from the docs on ITEM specs. 17:16:09 03SamB 07refs/merge-requests/9 * rc3d1c0adcd0a 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-item.cc: Add input history to &% (create item by name) wizard mode command. 17:16:16 03SamB 07refs/merge-requests/9 * r389c4cabbd54 10/crawl-ref/source/item_use.cc: Do not give free unwields for certain types of wield failure; 17:17:40 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:21:03 -!- dtsund-afk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:08 galehar, MarvinPA_: take a look at https://gitorious.org/~SamB/crawl/sambs-crawl/commit/389c4cabbd54e10517edd02159232b1c711202b1 ? 17:24:30 or kilobyte, even 17:25:30 (was he here for the discussion about wield failures?) 17:26:19 Loose ability to train spellcasting when Manual of Spellcasting runs out (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4655) by kittel 17:27:22 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:15 -!- Wensley has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:33:42 -!- dtsund-afk is now known as dtsund 17:41:49 !tell galehar crosstraining/antitraining doesn't seem to handle skills smoothly... if you raise ice to 3.1 and then fire to 3.5, ice is still treated as the higher skill since it was raised to 3 first 17:41:50 elliptic: OK, I'll let galehar know. 17:50:09 03kilobyte * r3d71ce5f9d6a 10/crawl-ref/source/ (8 files): Mostly correct uppercasing/lowercasing of Unicode strings. ?? and ?? are still wrong. 17:50:18 03kilobyte * rf4dd414b52b4 10/crawl-ref/source/database.cc: Fix a format warning on win64. 17:53:21 -!- due has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:58:07 -!- galehar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:16 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:41 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:26 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:34 -!- MaryPoppins is now known as Adeon 18:26:51 kilobyte: ?? and ?? are not letters ;-P 18:27:55 elliptic: that's odd 18:28:14 I'd think none of them would be highest, since they're all at the same level 18:28:44 that is, I'd think you would get no crosstraining 18:30:10 samb: well the 3.5 one is clearly highest 18:30:32 yeah 18:30:47 it is important that you always get antitraining because otherwise it would be optimal to raise opposing elements simultaneously 18:31:08 true 18:31:41 Eating Poisoned Chunks and not getting poisoned should Identify jewelery (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4656) by LorrdErnie 18:31:42 On the other hand, you could just give both -4 if they're at the same level! 18:33:04 -!- syllogism- has quit [] 18:36:34 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: Stay sane inside insanity!] 18:41:38 i tried to install crawl-tiles with apt-get, but it failed. then i tried manually compiling from source and it made it a while without failing, but then it gave me a series of SDL errors. 18:41:46 am i pretty much screwed? 18:44:17 I've built tiles from the repo with no problems, but it wasn't Debian. 18:44:35 What did apt say? 18:51:20 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:51:32 -!- pointless has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:24 huh its working now 18:52:25 awesome 18:52:50 before apt-get said crawl-tiles was unavailable 18:53:04 so i installed crawl, got rid of it, and now it works 18:53:05 weird 19:00:11 anyone know where i can find an icon for crawl? :) 19:03:21 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/tiles/stone_soup_icon-32x32.png 19:04:44 thank you good sir 19:06:40 I think there's something else in that soup besides stones 19:08:13 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:45 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:13 Adeon: that's the whole idea of stone soup 19:16:42 you convince everyone how great it's gonna be, but that it would be just that little bit better if they chip in 19:17:23 Adeon: haven't you heard that tale? 19:17:37 I have 19:18:09 I think I may have first heard it in relation to Fractint 19:20:57 -!- pointless is now known as pointless_ 19:22:15 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:58 Mislead messes up with Demons in tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4659) by Claws 19:26:58 Robe of Misfortune is distinguishable in Tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4658) by Claws 19:26:58 (Test) focused skill tiles (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4657) by Denzi 19:28:02 hmm, why does super-heal increase max HP, but *not* cure rot? 19:43:31 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:37 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 19:48:04 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:04 -!- due has quit [Changing host] 19:48:04 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:06 Bad scrolls still get autopickedup in the new skill system (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4660) by Tonfa 19:59:23 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:30 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:49 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:43 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:19:59 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:38 -!- pointless_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.7/20100713130626]] 20:35:11 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:47 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 20:36:15 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 20:37:04 -!- Torokasi has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:38 Fruden (L27 DgWn) ASSERT(feat_is_solid(feat)) in 'beam.cc' at line 1114 failed. (Zig:15) 20:52:01 -!- Brannock_ has quit [] 20:53:11 !lm fruden crash -log 20:53:11 2. Fruden, XL27 DgWn, T:221765 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Fruden/crash-Fruden-20111001-015133.txt 20:55:11 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:14 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:20 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:43 * SamB wishes someone would cherry-pick his stuff 21:18:11 SamB: there are maybe ten people on the planet who know how cherry-picking works 21:18:11 03MarvinPA * rda6d1c2e9b33 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc: Fix compilation 21:18:41 * SamB wishes kilobyte would cherry-pick some of his stuff 21:18:50 i know nothing about makefile and doxygen and lua stuff so that scares me too much to cherry-pick :P 21:19:39 MarvinPA: then leave those and cherry pick some you understand ;-) 21:21:11 will the merge request update if just some commits get added? 21:22:48 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 21:23:58 -!- mumra has quit [Quit: offski] 21:25:18 -!- Torokasi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:26:17 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:55 MarvinPA: not on its own 21:29:04 but I may rebase and update, which would take care of it 21:29:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:18 In fact, I most likely would, just to make sure what had got in 21:59:31 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:40 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 22:26:03 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:34 -!- tekfunk has left ##crawl-dev 22:42:08 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:00 -!- valrus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:48 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:06 -!- jeanjacques has quit [] 22:59:12 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:09 Vampire's blood gets autodropped when it coagulates (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4661) by nubinia 23:06:27 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:37 -!- ixtli has joined ##crawl-dev 23:21:49 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:55 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:17 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 23:38:30 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]