00:00:59 -!- Fail_Bot has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-736-g0597237 (32) 00:18:16 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:16 00:18:57 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.10-a0-736-g0597237 00:20:42 ? 00:20:53 You rang? 00:21:07 * dtsund looks up a bit 00:21:14 Oh, Ash is just acting up. 00:43:53 -!- valrus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:34 hmm 01:24:13 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:20 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:20 01:24:35 ? 01:26:40 ...perhaps an invitation? 01:28:38 mumra: 01:32:51 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:51 01:33:11 -!- Xiberia has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]] 01:35:30 -!- ncampion has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 01:40:15 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:15 01:41:06 does that bot want anything or is that a bugged welcoming message? 01:41:42 It wants YOUR SOUL 01:42:05 too late, i already gave it away 01:56:34 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:59 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:59 02:01:38 -!- hoody has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:32 -!- elliptic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:32 02:02:38 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:28 Xiberia: Yep. You make a fine spectral warrior, might I add. 02:06:18 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:18 02:06:36 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.10-a0-736-g0597237 (32) 02:07:02 howdy crawl 02:07:10 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 02:07:10 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 02:07:10 02:08:01 yes, bot? 02:09:58 dtsund: hm? 02:09:59 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:11:36 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:36 02:12:07 ? 02:12:17 what's up Ash? :P 02:12:34 been happening since yesterday evening :S 02:13:02 somebody tried to teach him to say hi? 02:13:35 perhaps ... or he's teaching himself? 02:15:47 I think I may have set the record for furthest distance of a game played a CAO 02:16:17 surprisingly, the latency in Kathmandu ain't bad. 02:16:24 lol 02:17:55 -!- Vandal has quit [] 02:19:48 -!- bmh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:20:31 oh hey bmh! 02:20:47 so, how is it going over there? 02:20:55 i think he just left ... 02:21:57 so, latency isn't bad, but you just get disconnected instead... 02:31:18 -!- Leissi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:14 -!- galehar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:17 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:17 03:06:39 -!- purge has quit [Quit: .] 03:22:59 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 03:22:59 03:23:18 What is Ashenzari trying to tell me? 03:23:18 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 03:24:07 !messages 03:24:08 (1/1) Napkin said (13h 49m 25s ago): http://roguelikeradio.blogspot.com/2011/09/episode-3-brogue.html 03:26:27 moin david! 03:26:53 Hallo Marc! Danke für die dokiwiki-Hilfe. Alles wird gut :) 03:27:08 hehe, np & agreed :) 03:34:43 so, bis dienstag! o/ 03:35:20 -!- elliptic_ is now known as elliptic 03:38:33 Napkin: weekend? 03:40:29 hi dpeg 03:40:33 Hi! 03:40:59 has just been buggily welcoming everyone since yesterday evening 03:41:34 is just very forthcoming. She's developing an individuality. That's natural when you're nailed to the sky for an eternity. 03:42:09 galehar: started thinking about constriction numbers. I need one detail, can as well ask here: size will play a role. Are we using a numerical scale for sizes already (e.g. tiny=0, small=1 etc.)? If so, I'd adapt my formula to what's already there. 03:42:48 sure we do. size is just an enum 03:42:59 tell me! 03:44:52 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/enum.h#line2831 03:44:59 Thank you! 03:46:40 hybrids can have a different size for body and torso, but I think that's just for player, not monsters 03:47:02 galehar: ok. We may want to think about Naga size, but let's not worry about it now. 03:47:15 I have a plan which parameters to use, at least. 03:47:26 http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/blobs/master/crawl-ref/source/species.cc#line266 03:49:15 galehar: do these lists start with tiny=0 or 1? 03:50:30 enums start at 0 by default 03:50:40 elliptic: around? 03:50:49 yes, at the moment 03:50:52 galehar: okay, will produce numbers 03:51:06 elliptic: Do you think that tormenting the Royal Jelly is abuse? 03:51:17 not nowadays 03:51:29 Does she spawn when tormented? 03:51:33 it was abuse when it didn't produce Js, back in 0.5 03:51:34 yes 03:51:45 you'll get like 8 Js popping out 03:51:53 To whoever changed that, many thanks. 03:52:03 it is still a decent strategy, but no better than torment should be 03:52:11 yes, sounds good to me 04:08:37 Interesting idea by borsuk on the wiki on Draconians: disallow robes (body armour slot), allow helmets, boots, gloves. 04:13:45 Any support or opposition? 04:14:36 I don't get the flavour but it may be cool? 04:14:48 They can't wear armour anyway? 04:14:54 robes 04:15:05 I guess they have really strange bodies but pretty normal heads, hands and feet? :) 04:15:36 I don't really care what a draconian looks like. The appeal of the proposal for me is that it is a complete departure from our usual armour restrictions. 04:15:48 Yep, it's cool. 04:16:09 My question was if they could wear other armour, just not robes. 04:16:46 Currently? Don't think so. No idea about hides and dragon armours. 04:18:47 currently all races except felids and octopodes can wear dragon armours 04:19:59 elliptic: I'd have no qualms to motivate the change with reasoning like "Being far relatives of their primordial cousins, the dragons, they abhor the idea of using dragon hides or armours." 04:20:05 sure 04:20:26 elliptic: as I see it, the proposal is a boost early and a nerf late. That's generally the good direction, imo :) 04:20:39 uh, don't you mean the other way around? 04:20:48 not really 04:21:05 maybe a nerf very early, but once you have access to side gear, it is a boost 04:21:06 early on you won't have helmet/boot/gloves reliably, but you are quite likely to get a +2 robe of something 04:21:12 when you miss the dragon armour, it is a loss 04:21:20 +2 robe of something is 4 AC plus 04:21:26 dracs don't wear dragon armour anyway 04:21:30 so that's not a loss :) 04:21:31 hm, good if it has aspects of both, I think 04:21:35 elliptic: good to know 04:21:43 !apt dr armour 04:21:44 Dr (SK_ARMOUR)=-4* 04:21:48 elliptic: they could start with a hat instead of a robe 04:22:03 elliptic: there are some lightyish dragon armours -- but I trust your assessment, of course 04:22:57 I don't see anything wrong with buffing Dr late and nerfing them early, though 04:23:11 elliptic: so I got all wrong and the idea is still good? :) 04:23:44 I'm generally neutral about this idea, but I don't see anything particularly wrong about it 04:24:01 okay 04:24:02 how does it buff them late though 04:24:13 st_: more access to randart items 04:24:13 more slots to put randarts on? 04:24:41 elliptic: you don't see the appeal of breaking up the armour slot restriction monotony? I find that very sexy, but I might be special in this regard. 04:25:16 armour slot restrictions aren't particularly interesting to me, so no... but I also don't object to the idea :) 05:00:01 -!- galehar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:12:02 -!- hoody has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:04 05:14:38 -!- Euphoria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:48 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:49 05:17:23 Hi Ash 05:19:31 Keskitalo: Hallo! 05:19:44 Hi dpeg1 05:22:43 Keskitalo: once for for you: Interesting idea by borsuk on the wiki on Draconians: disallow robes (body armour slot), allow helmets, boots, gloves. 05:24:31 I'd say it's kenku who are more weird to be wing-less. 05:24:54 but you're right that draconians aren't fully humanoid either 05:24:58 kilobyte: I fully agree but last time I tried to do something about that, it turned out to be too hard. 05:25:12 kilobyte, Keskitalo: do you have opinion on the draconian matter? elliptic is indifferent. 05:25:37 no strong opinion either way 05:26:01 power wise it probably does not do much, but I like the variety 05:29:45 yeah, variety is a good argument 05:29:59 okay, I'll keep asking around 05:30:17 if devs are fine with it, it'll turn into an implementable, okay? 05:30:43 too many 'okay' :| 05:32:09 not an implementable, it's a trivial change, with the only issue being converting saves with worn armour 05:33:46 hm, as you say :) 05:34:38 it's a matter of deciding, mostly 05:35:04 if it is a simple change, it'll be easy to revert either, right? 05:35:18 so let's just do it... lots of time for feedback 05:35:58 ok. galehar? 05:36:09 beh, he quit 05:37:11 what with Chei? I find the ponderousifying mechanic to thoroughly suck. 05:37:22 suck in which regard? 05:37:22 my idea is a pair of invocations, "slow down" 05:37:39 and "hurry up", but elliptic has something better 05:37:57 I'd prefer to just tie slowness directly to piety level, yes 05:38:00 dpeg: mostly issues with races with a number of slots different than 5 05:38:08 didn't we sort those out? 05:38:37 it'd be a nerf to an already weak god, though 05:38:40 yeah, I think my fix to the "different number of slots" issue has been working decently 05:39:09 kilobyte: why do you say it would be a nerf? depends on how it would be implemented, but being able to use randarts on chei worshippers would certainly be a buff 05:39:18 dpeg: too jumpy, especially on octopodes. You can shed away the whole slowness in 20 aut. 05:39:41 elliptic: ok, so you say no compensation? We can try it. 05:39:43 I see 05:39:44 well, that's Op's fault :P and I don't think it is a particular problem 05:40:11 kilobyte: well, probably reduce the resists/stat boosts slightly at least 05:41:32 currently chei gives rF+ rC+ rN+ and +15 to all stats... if they get to use randarts (and not worry about needing to enchant before ponderizing and such), maybe remove the resists 05:41:51 I like the ponderification, but I am obviously biased. Also, we didn't have Oc back then :) 05:42:16 dpeg: the main thing I don't like about the ponderification is that it makes lucking into a full set of armour really important 05:42:35 elliptic: but acquirement helps with that 05:43:15 anyway, if you're sure it's better with a change, go ahead 05:44:42 it is on my to-do list :) 05:45:05 if I think losing the possibilty to speed up is too much and elliptic says it's too little to make up for randarts, sounds like current state would be just right for the first try 05:45:18 can be adjusted further then 05:45:22 kilobyte: sure 05:45:52 people generally seem to view chei as so weak that a buff wouldn't be bad at all, anyway 05:46:04 there were also some ideas of more abilities to give chei 05:46:15 so that could also be used to try to get balance right 05:46:19 dpeg: I like the variety too. 05:46:31 (re: no body slot on draconians) 05:46:44 dpeg: so which slots should they get in return? 05:46:44 You lose the ability to wear dragon armour as a draconian, though. ;) 05:47:01 That's kind of a cool flavour actually, but no big loss. 05:47:17 re: kenku, we should really change the name, it's completely from D&D. 05:47:23 Keskitalo: so what, should we talk to other guys first, or are you ok? 05:47:29 We're probably infringing their copyright with that. (: 05:47:40 kilobyte: Nah, let's just go ahead with it. 05:48:34 Keskitalo: Rename them Tengu. 05:48:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu 05:48:43 That'd be my suggestion as well. 05:48:44 kilobyte: gain head, feet, hands 05:48:50 kilobyte: we can always restrict later 05:48:55 the wikipedia articles for Kenku and Tengu are quite informative 05:49:22 Keskitalo: trivial to adapt flavour regarding dragon armours, see my description attempt from 11:19 05:50:23 kenku -> tengu sounds fine to me 05:50:34 dpeg: Yeah, that works. 05:50:57 Is tengu the real thing from Asia? 05:51:16 moin 05:51:16 Hi! 05:51:29 dpeg: Yes 05:51:55 So a clear case. DnD invention is a bigger evil than being used in Nethack. 05:53:13 dpeg: See my link. 05:53:23 * bhaak thinks dpeg needs a D&D and/or NetHack therapy 05:53:48 I'm not the problem, Gary Gygax is! 05:54:27 Well, you have to keep in mind that Linley obviously drew loads of inspiration from D&D. 05:54:49 Keskitalo: everyone did, I am only trying to get a little distance to the trope 05:55:00 That is the right thing to do, of course. 05:55:31 Erm, I don't know why you should keep that in mind what I said, actually. 05:55:39 At least with the gods, I have free reign... no, or very little, input from D&D in that area. And, bhaak, of course nothing from NH :P 05:56:59 as if with the token gods from nethack there would be anything to add in the first place :) 05:57:15 without? 05:57:45 no, there is nothing to take from the nethack gods 05:57:56 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 05:57:56 05:57:56 Well, as usual, NH was our lantern in how not do it. (Just like the newer games avoid our mistakes.) 05:58:51 03galehar * r30a8992e9595 10/crawl-ref/source/spl-transloc.cc: Allow wizard teleport in the Abyss. 05:58:54 "How to not design the Gods in your game: Don't make them all the same with different names." :) 05:58:57 03galehar * rcba068c28251 10/crawl-ref/source/ (debug.cc spl-tornado.cc): Simplify. 05:59:06 03galehar * r70f08443e65f 10/crawl-ref/source/wiz-dgn.cc: Mention the * prefix in the &L prompt. 05:59:07 03galehar * r390586942c23 10/crawl-ref/source/ (wiz-dgn.cc wiz-dgn.h wiz-mon.cc wiz-mon.h): Fix the abyss speed wizmode command prompt. 05:59:15 Dummer Junge! :) 05:59:44 galehar: everyone is indifferent about or in support of an idea by b0rsuk: draconians become restricted in body armour (no robes, dragon armours) but get access to hand, foot, head slots. Your take? 06:00:42 to be clear, they already can wear hats, just not helmets 06:00:46 yes 06:01:03 the body armour slot is interesting when it gives a choice between light and heavy armour. For dracs and their abyssimal aptitude, it's not really a choice. 06:01:37 galehar: yes. And I like that it'd be a species with an unusual armour restriction (they're all so similar). 06:02:25 It's pretty exciting to play since six months btw.. I'm trying to get an OpAE off the ground. I also mentioned this on ##crawl yesterday - learnt Flight to avoid being electrocution-whipped by Pikel. 06:02:25 ..that's probably pretty spoilery, actually. 06:02:56 Keskitalo: can add it to the descriptions of electrocution weapons and the Flight spell? 06:03:01 electricity being less dangerous when not touching the ground is common knowledge! 06:03:17 galehar: Doesn't work against most elec attacks though. 06:03:35 dpeg: That'd probably work. Potions of levitation perhaps too? 06:04:09 yes 06:04:41 The manual has a section on status effects... should go there, so that the three players who are literate and do look into the manual can see it. 06:05:45 that's an interesting drac idea 06:06:01 the point of the manual is not for the players to read it. It's just for when they come crying about "spoilers" after YASD and we can tell them RTFM. 06:06:10 Eronarn: about to go in, if galehar does veto it 06:06:20 no body armor feels a bit strange, though, since robes fit everything from spriggans to ogres... 06:06:29 It's the wings. 06:06:32 galehar: sure :) It's our anti-"SPO!LERS!!1!" insurance. 06:06:46 always the damn wings 06:06:49 whatis about to go in? 06:06:51 I'm ok with the dracs change 06:07:02 due: everyone is indifferent about or in support of an idea by b0rsuk: draconians become restricted in body armour (no robes, dragon armours) but get access to hand, foot, head slots. Your take? 06:07:03 Keskitalo: one would expect a cloak to be way more of a problem for wings than a robe 06:07:14 dpeg: uh 06:07:16 Manual still has "Flying provides an additional speed bonus to swiftness." 06:07:18 Eronarn: yes, I thought if the cloak slot should go, but what the heck 06:07:38 Keskitalo: wiki! Easy to edit =) 06:07:38 dpeg: Why no dragon armours? 06:07:58 What is the rationale for magical armour that fits any race no longer fitting every race? 06:08:03 I don't have my login creds at work.. 06:08:22 Well count me as against it, not that I am in a position to argue for/against things : 06:08:27 seeing as I don't play draconians anyway 06:08:40 i'll just throw out my thing from the clothing patch: it added 'soft' items for the slots that don't have them; perhaps draconians could wear all of those, but no hard items 06:08:47 so robe, cloak, hat, sandals, gloves 06:08:53 but not gauntlets, boots, helmets, armor 06:09:06 due: I'd have no qualms to motivate the change with reasoning like "Being far relatives of their primordial cousins, the dragons, they abhor the idea of using dragon hides or armours." 06:09:29 dpeg: i am happy with robe, cloak, hat, sandals and gloves, but not dragon amrour, etc. 06:09:30 (elliptic asked this question before) 06:09:45 due: hey, I am bending the flavour just above 06:09:47 but "no robe, no dragon armour" is just being "let's make this HARD!" 06:09:52 dpeg: i think that's a pretty iffy justification because they can butcher dragons, raise them as undead, etc. 06:09:58 dpeg: My mistake 06:10:08 -!- Pingas has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:09 06:10:18 dpeg: I'd prefer the motivation that dracs are effectively already wearing dragon armour 06:10:24 or that 06:10:32 dpeg: I am happy with them not having dragno armour, but I don't understand what purpose there is to not having dragon/robe/etc without being "we just want to make this hard for you" 06:10:33 like how trolls get no bonus from troll armour (though they can wear it) 06:10:35 I am just saying that it can be reasoned. 06:10:39 fine with me 06:11:24 due: a number of species have the "robe but restricted side gear" handicap. It'd be the other way around with draconians. The damn wings! 06:11:47 elliptic: perhaps drac armor could remove the drac's normal resist boost, so they can only wear one set of scales 06:12:08 dpeg: yes, but restricted side-gear is of no consequence; not having a body armour is seriously frustrating 06:12:23 due: why if body armour only extends to robes? 06:12:24 'As you put on the ice dragon armor, you feel your affinity for acid fade.' or whatever 06:12:26 not getting gloves is "meh" simply because gloves are too rare to be relied upon. 06:12:33 dpeg: yes, I am happy if they can have robes still. 06:12:34 due: later on, it will matter 06:12:35 due: it would be an early-game nerf, yes 06:13:23 elliptic: I've never gotten a draconian past the early-game without "aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh", hence my complaining :) 06:13:23 I'd also be okay with allowing the body armour slot, but I think it is more fun and more interesting without it. 06:13:23 in short: happy with robe, cloak, hat, gloves, sandals, without dragon/armour, etc. 06:13:23 due: their early game is a lot easier since their AC buff 06:13:23 due: I guess you possibly haven't tried one since they were buffed? 06:13:23 yeah 06:13:23 !lg 06:13:25 1381. due the Stinger (L1 SpVM), quit the game on D:1 (minmay entry widening spiral wide) on 2011-07-05, with 20 points after 183 turns and 0:00:53. 06:13:31 !lg due dr 06:13:35 15. bookofjude the Summoner (L9 DrWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, slain by a killer bee on D:9 on 2009-09-17, with 3472 points after 19007 turns and 1:10:59. 06:13:43 --^ 06:13:47 Yeah, buffed since. 06:13:55 yeah... they get quite a bit more racial AC nowadays 06:14:11 also their breaths are better in some cases, I gather? 06:14:28 !lg keskitalo dr 06:14:28 12. Keskitalo the Scorcher (L16 DrFE), worshipper of Ashenzari, quit the game on Shoals:1 on 2011-02-01, with 112335 points after 56482 turns and 4:21:09. 06:14:34 would people be willing to try sandals/gloves, or is that one a lost cause 06:15:16 Eronarn: That'd allow (almost) all species every body slot, correct? 06:15:25 (that Dr wasn't bad to play at all) 06:15:25 if Kenku are renamed to Tengu, we should add a new tournament rule: bonus points to the clan if all members win a Tengu Arcane Marksman. 06:15:40 <3 06:15:46 eronarn: I don't like it for one 06:15:53 galehar: Why? 06:15:55 :) 06:15:59 I like sandals 06:16:05 TeAM! 06:16:26 Keskitalo: no, there was three in the original proposal - anyone, soft, hard 06:16:47 however I'd accept a few new armour types in exchange for removing all the 43805 helmet variants :) 06:16:57 this is just soft/hard extending to boots and gloves 06:17:03 elliptic: Hehe, pretty much my thoughts. 06:17:04 and possibly cloak, though that's iffier 06:17:27 Eronarn: Did it include having to enchant gloves to make them give AC? (Like hats vs helmets) 06:17:34 elliptic: my thought was to remove the mechanical variants but keep purely cosmetic ones in as a command line option 06:17:34 -!- RichardHawk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:35 06:18:00 ...? 06:18:01 gah that is annoying 06:18:16 er not command line 06:18:18 oops, just woke up 06:19:04 eronarn: cosmetic variants are okay if I don't have to see them if that's what you mean :P 06:19:04 Keskitalo: the values i was going to go with were 0/1/2 for all/soft/hard. so that would mean 'gloves' are +1 (but most 'gloves' would become 'gauntlets') 06:19:04 elliptic: yes, and for people who do like it, they'd be searchable with just 'helmet' like now of course 06:19:09 all/soft/hard sounds like too many mechanically different armours but extending the hat/helmet separation to other types of armour could be decent I guess 06:19:15 some people like having silly hats a lot 06:19:41 ... and those people play tf2 ;) 06:19:47 but it could be good for mutations too 06:19:58 you could have the hand/foot mutations cause loss of hard before they cause loss of soft 06:20:01 if they cause it at all 06:20:21 'fingerless gloves', etc. 06:20:38 I think the idea is decent. Is there a concise proposal? 06:20:48 due: i was talking to SamB about a thread i saw using luadoc comments mixed in with c++ code ... he wrote a patch: https://gitorious.org/~SamB/crawl/sambs-crawl/commits/luadoc 06:21:52 dpeg: 1) add 'sandals' as 1 AC armor 2) change 'gloves' to 'gauntlets', add 'gloves' as 1 AC armor 3) these spawn with the same rarity as hats (i believe 1/10 as common as helmets?) 4) adjust mutations/racial limitations to deal with this as desired 06:22:44 do you mean 0 AC armour? 06:23:02 0 for hat, 1 for helmet, same for the other slots 06:23:08 5) rejigger some artifacts. for example, current gloves can become gloves or gauntlets, some current boots can become sandals 06:23:12 oops, yes 06:23:28 i forgot it's 0 / 1, not 1 / 2 06:24:52 (that was another part of my clothing patch: change it from 0 / 1 to 1 / 2, with the same 'enchantable up to base AC' as other armor now has, but this isn't at all mandatory) 06:31:07 kilobyte: about #4471, do you plan to fix the "nasty pile of ugly hacks"? 06:31:28 because the patch is small and functional. And we can always clean up later. 06:34:13 I looked into it... the proper solution isn't that big either, with one big but. If we do it, untangling the branch mess would be a good deal harder since it'd be hard to obtain this kind of lua data. 06:34:34 so, you might be right, purging those props wouldn't be too much work 06:34:52 Static Discharge should probably not be cast when there's no grounded enemy next to you. You could still force it to be cast with 'Z'. 06:35:09 I've wasted a lot of MPs and turns casting it next to imps and hippogriffs. (: 06:35:50 I'll need to add these to the wiki once I get home.. 06:36:08 Keskitalo: put it somewhere so it isn't forgotten. An implementable if you're desperate. (Good ideas just dropped here tend to ... vaporescence. 06:36:38 Aye. 06:37:45 coders: is having rather small implementables (like Eino's z/Z Discharge, or b0rsuk's Dr armour change) good or bad? It might be more work to review and push than just to code it, but it may also attract more patchers. 06:39:10 good, small patches are easy to review 06:39:25 oh, two things i forgot: a) figure out what to do with spriggans b) you could add scarves as the 'soft' cloak slot, which would justify dracs not being able to wear cloaks and give them a nice symmetric ability to wear only soft aux slot items for all slots 06:39:27 (I'm doing the draconian thing, though) 06:39:36 kilobyte: alright! :) 06:39:46 So I will start making Implementables out of small, uncontetious issues. 06:40:00 btw, if anyone wants to pick it up 06:40:06 apparently holy brand hurts servitors extra 06:40:07 Eronarn: cloaks are still ok 06:40:08 this is a bug 06:40:25 -!- Vandal has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:25 06:40:28 Eronarn: how come? They're regular undead. 06:40:45 bot? 06:40:45 kilobyte: no they're not - they're so corrupted/unholy that they're resistant to holy 06:40:48 @??profane servitor 06:40:49 profane servitor (05A) | Speed: 15 | HD: 18 | Health: 133-174 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Damage: 2505(vampiric), 1013(drain) | Flags: 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(192), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 08holy, 13torm | XP: 5585. 06:42:11 sounds like a bug to me... TSO can be expected to hate them above anything else 06:42:50 We should use what causes fewer confusion/questions. Which probably is status quo. 06:43:07 If we go with the other decision, the servitor description should mention it. 06:43:15 kilobyte: hate them, yes - should probably give a huge piety boost for killing them - but the idea is that they are so blasphemous that divine magic doesn't work as well against them (see also their canceling out of halos) 06:43:56 making them not-vuln rather than resistant would be fine too - i think that'd mean no holy wrath boost, cleansing flame less damage but still some? 06:44:50 if we want to make it more clear, it could go in the desc, or add a line when it resists holy damage ('the cleansing flames blacken and die out as they near the servitor') 06:45:14 later :) 06:45:26 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:26 06:45:48 ? 06:52:42 Napkin: still one empty dir: ./brainstorm/magic/system (seems like it's the last one) 06:55:01 galehar: he might be enjoying weekend already 06:58:25 -!- ais523 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:52 !tell Napkin still one empty dir: ./brainstorm/magic/system (seems like it's the last one) 06:58:52 galehar: OK, I'll let Napkin know. 06:59:42 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:42 07:09:45 -!- Keskitalo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:12 !tell Keskitalo Static Discharge idea implemetable'd as 4554. 07:16:13 dpeg: OK, I'll let Keskitalo know. 07:16:23 -!- casmith789 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:23 07:16:35 does Ashenzari just ping everyone when they join? 07:16:37 -!- ais523 has left ##crawl-dev 07:16:37 07:16:38 -!- ais523 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:38 07:16:43 ? 07:16:57 casmith789: it's pinging people when they join, for reasons I don't understand 07:17:07 it pinged you when you left as well 07:18:22 that's even weirder 07:18:53 * casmith789 makes a notice 07:18:55 I wonder who's responsible for Ashenzari? its whois vaguely implies doy, but I'm not sure 07:20:16 Static Discharge casting (https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=4554) by dpeg 07:41:26 ais523: probably galehar/kilobyte work on ash the most? 07:41:39 oh wait, you mean the bot 07:41:41 heh, sorry 07:42:05 yes, the bot 07:43:02 making an ash of himself 07:43:27 dpeg: do you have any thoughts on swarms? mumra and i got to talking about them but it would be good to hear if you have any input 07:45:56 -!- monqy has quit [Quit: hello] 07:47:15 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:15 07:47:26 huh 07:47:33 he does that to everybody 07:47:47 ok 07:48:24 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:24 07:48:33 hi 07:49:15 -!- bmh has quit [Changing host] 07:49:15 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:15 07:49:36 why does ash keep sending me empty messages? 07:52:35 Eronarn: I don't see the gameplay potential of swarms. 07:52:53 it's been doing that to everyone when they arrive 07:52:57 bmh, we've no idea, he does that to everyone 07:53:01 And last time galehar spoke on the matter, he raised some questions that are still unsettled, at least to me. 07:53:29 Noting that FeMo should be re-enabled, again 07:53:31 hmm, now I'm thinking about what's interesting about swarms in other games, gameplay-wise 07:53:43 Possibly booting out FeFi completely 07:53:55 -!- ncampion has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:55 07:54:15 CAO is way snappier from Kathmandu than from London. It's impressive. 07:54:34 in Wesnoth, they're interesting because they get weaker as you attack them, meaning that you probably need to allow a powerful unit to take a lot of damage to start attacking one, but can then finish it off with weak units 07:54:48 -!- ncampion has quit [Client Quit] 07:54:52 in D&D, they're mostly for making area-effect attacks more useful 07:55:17 and for swarming you... 07:55:19 in Crawl, I suppose the major use would be to discourage corridor fighting, because a corridor doesn't insulate you from a swarm at all 07:55:27 bmh: well, yes, and for the flavour 07:55:30 but I'm trying to think of gameplay aspects only 07:55:58